24 May 2013

Transfer Fail: LFC deal for 'terrific' £10m star collapses. FSG negligence...?

After months of speculation, Swansea City captain Ashley Williams is set to snub Liverpool for a move to Arsenal.

Liverpool have been persistently linked with a move for Williams over the last year, and in April, The Guardian reported that:

* LFC were 'pole position' to sign him.

* Williams favours a move to LFC.

* He was a boyhood Reds fans.

Well, According to the Evening Standard today:

"Arsenal have agreed terms to sign Ashley Williams this summer. Arsene Wenger is hopeful of tying up a three-year deal to bring him to the Emirates Stadium for a fee of £8-10million in the next fortnight"

Many Liverpool fans will probably breathe a huge sigh of relief over this latest development, but Wenger is no mug - his transfer record proves that he's one of the best judges of talent in the Premier League, if not Europe, so if Williams is good enough for Arsenal, why - according to Reds fans - is he not good enough for Liverpool?

In recent weeks, Liverpool legends Ian Rush and Jan Molby have thrown their support behind the possibility of signing Williams, but FSG reportedly put the blockers on a move for 28-year old due to his age. If this is true, then in my view, Liverpool's owners are clearly damaging the club's ability to compete for top class experienced players.

What do FSG - who have comparatively ZERO experience and knowledge of football - know about players? Having a blanket rule of ignoring any player over the age of 27/28 is negligence IMO, and it undermines the manager, who incidentally, has 20 years of experience in the British game.

Williams - recently described as 'terrific' by Wales boss Chris Coleman - is undoubtedly a good defender, and the his stats over the last five years prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Indeed, this season - according to Opta stats - he is a more effective defender than both Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel.

Liverpool continue to be linked with a host of young central defenders, but experience is needed, and the likes of Kyriakos Papadopolous et al will need time to adapt to the Premier League, whereas Williams is proven performer over a number of years, and would fit right in.

Another one bites the dust, it seems...


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79 comments:

  1. Wait, so all of a sudden Brendan going back to Swansea and buying his old players is a great idea? His judgement should be backed now?

    You may not be consistent with your opinions, but at least you're consistent on having a go at LFC for absolutely every single decision.

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  2. Another Swansea bullet ducked. LFC are not just buying for the EPL, but for further down the road when we re-enter Europe also. Williams as a 29 year old has not the experience in Europe.

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  3. Popadopoulus or Williams, easy decision.

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  4. What was wrong with my comment?

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  5. People always assume because a player was linked to Liverpool from paper talk it's automatically true. Doubt Liverpool do be ever after 10% of them.

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  6. Fail? LOL.


    A)Being *linked* by caughtofside doesn't mean anyone at Liverpool Football Club had any interest in him.


    B)Highly doubtful LFC had any interest in Williams whatsoever considering they are after a young talented centerback and Kolo Toure as an experienced backup.


    I wouldn't call it negligence at all if FSG didn't go after Williams and it's certainly not some kind of transfer *fail*.

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  7. Don't deliberately misrepresent my views on things. What you write was inaccurate nonsense.

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  8. Well said Celera, this is another terrible article by this writer. I say writer as I don't consider them to be a journalist. FSG have a clear plan regarding age and building a side that will compete for years and if the links to Kolo have any weight BR is clearly taking experience in to consideration while strengthening our defense with one of the top young talents in Europe re: Popodopolous..

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  9. So rather than responding to it, you deleted it. Interesting.


    I simply pointed out that in the past you've been a critic of Rogers going back to Swansea and signing their players. Now you're calling for him to do exactly this, despite the player having no European or big club experience, being vastly over priced for a defender, and there being a whole host of alternatives. I simply don't understand why you gainsay every situation LFC find themselves in.

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  10. we dont buy old players why waste time even writing about it?

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  11. What you pointed out is nonsense. I've never been a 'critic' of Rodgers going back and signing his old players from Swansea. You've made that up. If not, provide some proof, i.e. a link to an article.

    When people deliberately misrepresent my views and/or claim I said something I never did, I just delete their comments. I don't have the time or the inclination to debate the issue. Usually, people who do that are snipers, so it's a waste of time arguing it anyway.

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  12. And you base this on what, exactly? People love to believe that newspapers make stuff up, but football journos have unparalleled access to players, managers, agents etc. They hear things; they have sources; they get snippets of inside information, and much of it accurate. Things change on an hourly basis sometimes, and just because X doesn't end moving to team Y, doesn't mean that *at the time*, the info put forward wasn't true.


    Newspapers get shedloads of stuff correct when it comes to transfers, and it's just plain ignorance to suggest that they don't.

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  13. Thanks for deleting my comment you ridiculous excuse of a writer. Can't you take criticism?
    Clearly not. Your articles are loose stool water, arse gravy of the worst kind.Coward

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  14. Wenger's record on defensive signings in recent years has been fairly poor. I wouldn't be too disheartened on the strength of his judgement.

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  15. Thats would be Mertesacker, Koscienly, Vermaelan, Monreal, Jenkinson... doesnt sound too bad.

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  16. I'm not deliberately misrepresenting anything Jaimie. Maybe you've become paranoid in your time on here. You've called into question Brendan's judgement enough on here. You've linked us to all and sundry and claimed disaster when we've not got people, but you never seem to put anything positive, anything about the bigger picture.


    Honestly, almost everything you write is a gripe about something or someone instead of trying to be philosophical about any of it. We're going to take time to turn this around, and we're better off with younger players who can grow, increase in value in case we have to, or want to, sell them. For far too long now LFC have bought high and sold low. Something you have pointed out in the past. This is exactly what we'd do if we bought Williams now.


    There are quality players out there for the same money who are much younger and can either play for us for a long period of time, giving us stability and longevity, or we sell them on at a profit. Heaven forbid that Coutinho leave us, but if he continues to play like he has since joining us, and decides that he wants to leave, he'll be worth a damn sight more than 8.5 mil.


    I don't understand how it can be a bad thing for the owners to want to do this, especially in the era of financial fair play.


    Who knows, maybe you don't want to see it, maybe you have an agenda, or maybe controversy just gets more hits for you. Who knows.


    Hope I didn't misrepresent you or break any other posting rules with my opinions there.

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  17. Mertesacker is awful. He has the turning circle of an oil freighter and paper talk, which Jaimie is defending, says Vermaelan is on his way out. But that's cherry picking. What about Senderos, Santos, Squillaci. That's just three of the top of my head. Maybe he just shouldn't buy them beginning with S.

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  18. Took the words right out of my mouth! If its attacking midfielders that's a different story!

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  19. liverpool4life56510:53 pm, May 24, 2013

    Good, go to arsenal, rather have papadopoulous. :)

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  20. I was just typing out a similar list. Wenger has wasted vast sums on ludicrously bad defenders over the last number of years.

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  21. As a matter of interest how do you know if someone is deliberately misrepresenting your views?

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  22. Based on your view that newspapers are usually right it seems we are about top sign Kolo Toure who is 30+ - so where does that leave your argument that FSG refuse to endorse any transfers for players over 28?
    And whatever his merits KT would represent experience. My point being that perhaps, just perhaps, you should acknowledge that Rogers is in charge of transfers and not FSG - albeit within a framework which emphasises youth and value.

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  23. LFC have not signed anyone over the age of 24 since Rodgers took charge. That - plus John Henry's open letter to the fans where he outlined his transfer philosophy - is the evidence that FSG refuse to sanction moves for players over a certain age.

    Rodgers may well want Toure, but convincing FSG to sign him is a different story. Same applies to Dempsey last season: Rodgers wanted him, FSG said no.

    Ian Ayre confirmed last month that transfers are decided by committee. Rodgers may have the illusion of being in charge, but there's nothing to suggest he actually *is* in charge.

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  24. Muhammad Ibrahim11:29 pm, May 24, 2013

    The article gets it wrong in the heading: calling Williams "terrific" he good thats all and with the right CB he may be very good. To answer the question, NO

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  25. good liverpool fans arsenal have bad defenders and players and wenger is a bad judge of players. He is the only manager that gets it wrong sometimes, good on you liverpool thats why despite the problems at arsenal they always finish above you...

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  26. I think the vote on whether we made a mistake in not signing williams currently on this page says it all. I, like the huge majority of liverpool fans, am extremely pleased that we wont be signing Ashley Williams.

    Firstly the claim you make that "Liverpool's owners are clearly damaging the club's ability to compete for top class experienced player", if its based on our inability to buy Ashley williams alone, is utter nonsense - in no way can Ashley Williams be considered a top class player. Iv picked up on this in other articles that you have written about him before, but where are these supposed stats "which prove over the last 5 years that he is a good defender beyond a shadow of a doubt"- three his last 5 years were spent in the championship against attackers of a significantly poorer quality than those in the premier league, im sure almost any premier league defender would have impressive statistics in the championship. And what are these supposed opta stats proving that "he is a more effective defender than skrtel and agger". What does that even mean? What's the measure of defensive effectiveness? Maybe there is some kind of composite index but the absence of any further elaboration just makes it look like another unsupported assertion. Finally I would suggest, in response to your question, that the reason Ashley Williams is good enough for Arsenal's defence but not good enough for ours is quite simply that our defence is better than arsenals. I certainly wouldnt want to see mertesaker at the heart of our defence, hes abolutely useless, so if its him ashley williams is replacing maybe it is an improvement. Pappadopolous is a top quality young defender who, rather than having championship experience, has champions league experience. He would be good value for money, he has a proven track record proving against high quality teams, and he has bags of potential. Its him that we should be going for, not williams. There is no reason to believe, as you suggest "that he will need time to adapt to the premier league", he has played in the champions league against top clubs from around europe. If the £10 million we saved by not going for williams is spent on him I will be a very happy man.

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  27. While i understand your statement about FSG not knowing about football but you dont have to know about football to know that Older = less of a chance of a successful investment.

    While im not defending their stance, because personally i think sometimes you need to bring in that mature player at times.



    After KD chucking cash at anyone with a british player and having to pay J. Cole to leave i can understand why they are sceptical with their money.


    On the other hand reports were that Man U directors didnt want RVP because he would have a very limited sell on value considering the massive investment they were putting in, But Old red nose said to the owners that it doesnt matter how much we sell him for if he wins us trophies every year he'll pay himself off.


    While im not apposed to signing older players i was apposed to signing this particular older player lol. BULLET DODGED IMO!

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  28. Who the hell we going to buy to get in the top four. We need world clasd players to reach the next stage. We brought joe allen who only can pass six yards and can't pass long balls... to me he ain't world class.. owners need to back us with 60 million to get top class players to take us where we belong. . Or we will be waiting five years soon or later...

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  29. Mike Aitcheson1:26 am, May 25, 2013

    Wenger's record on transfers is no longer anything to write home about. He used to buy unknowns or little known players and turn them into world beaters but rarely does that anymore.

    Although they are not defenders, , think about Arshavin, who had one outstanding game unfortunately against us at a critical time, Chamakh, couldn't hit a cow's backside, and who can forget his immortal phrase 'fox in the box'? to describe Jeffers. Arsenal have had a poorish back 4 for many years following the invincibles season.

    Not many people ,I would argue, will shed a tear for the failure to buy another good, but unspectacular player. We need to aspire to greater heights than that. Even if the potential of the likes of Popodapoulous never reaches the level we hope, then at least we tried to get a T quality defender. Our aim, after all, is higher than just 4th in the long term. Swansea's defensive record isn't all that this year, with a minus goal difference and over 50 goals conceded.
    It would be a mistake imo to blanket ban any older player, but if that player provides something special, I think FSG would sanction such a player. Just not a big fee.

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  30. From an inside source BR wanted Dempsey instead of Sturridge. And that's why they have the committee now so he does make the same mistake like last summers transfer window. He waited till the end before asking for strikers while he knew that from the get go

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  31. But that doesn't mean Williams is terrific, which is his point. You also make reference to his stats "over the last 5 years"...but you ignore the fact that he has only spent 2 seasons, aka 72 games, in the Premier League, and he's already 28. Also, what is it with you and insulting everyone who doesn't agree with you? It's kind of pathetic. As for Williams, after the bad spending during Dalglish's time at the club, this isn't "negligence," it's being prudent.

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  32. Could be due to his comments about Suarez earlier this season; could be just avoiding a conflict in the dressing room.

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  33. Furthermore, FSG would sanction a deal for an "older" player if there is no transfer fee involved. If he doesn't command too high a wage, I believe Toure is a realistic target that Rodgers would want and FSG would approve of.


    However, for example, if we were to pay 8m for a 28 year old, in 4 years time, that player wouldn't be worth much at all, and that's the viewpoint FSG are taking.


    So age is obviously highly emphasised, but it's not the only thing the club looks at. Toure is free, and experienced, he would fill the squad...For a decent wage I can't understand why FSG would block a move.

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  34. If Liverpool sign Kolo Toure it would appear there is no "blanket rule of ignoring any player over the age of 27/28". Also, it doesnt really sound like such a bad policy anyway. Liverpool appear for the first time since 1990 to have a transfer policy, that is a clear direction. The moaners and perpetual nay-sayers might not like this policy but it is a massive improvement on what has been happening for the last twenty years. Buying younger players on the way up would be the only policy I would be interested in if I was was pouring millions into a club.

    Describing this as "negligence" is at best ill-informed commentary or at its worst sensationalist tripe.

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  35. no big deal. Many other defenders available.

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  36. And what is Chris Colemans opinion on Joe Allen, would you agree, I certainly would not.

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  37. There are indications that this deal has yet to be done: the original story of an agreement in place has been watered down to one likely to go through in the next fortnight. It certainly won't happen for 8m - Swansea's price is considerably higher.

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  38. Its good as well as bad news. I like Williams but not the price tag. If we can get another experience defender below that price, I will be happy.

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  39. First of all, if past rumours are anything to believe, we were asked to pay 12m. Funny how there exists a lower asking price as soon as Arsenal come calling. There are a few reasons why I am not bothered that Williams signs elsewhere.

    As I don't watch Swansea that much (about twice or so a year), I can only take what I read about the player for granted, and that mostly doesn't sound like a player who is making us better (or much better, if you want).

    While I don't have a problem with it, there is a section of our fans who don't seem to be too comfortable with our manager signing players who have played under him before. Just imagine we'd sign Williams and it takes him some time to settle in, him making some mistakes early on. Forums would be full of stuff like the player being Rodger's boyfriend and other silly allegations.

    Furthermore, from what I understand, it is not FSG who vetoed this transfer target, but the transfer committee. After all, someone in that committee must have noticed that this player might just be not that good or the price might just not be right. I for one am happy with that. Our last two signings really seem to be value for money, so the committee must do something right.

    Finally, Wenger being one of the best judges of talent. Well, yes, he has, or his scouting team have, unearthed quite a few gems, but, especially when it comes to sign more senior players, there are some really high profile blunders in his transfer history. And it is not exactly as if Wenger's ability to spot talent has brought his club any silverware lately.

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  40. How exactly is this bad that Liverpool are targeting young improving players?

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  41. Excellent comment Joe, agree with every point you have made.
    Williams is obviously a good player but I like many would rather us sign somebody with vast potential allied with European experience already in the bag.
    I have to add that in my opinion I have always been jealous of the flair players Wenger has signed but CBs, no. I can see us making big strides this season if we sign some of the players we have been linked with recently.
    JK, I think your website is one of the best reads out there for a Liverpool fan but can't help but feel that you have slightly sensationalised this article.

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  42. It means that you do not accept Jaimie K's often strange logic or that you do not accept his unique brand of "critical realism"!

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  43. Mr. Point Of View7:56 am, May 25, 2013

    in term of famous (champion league) there no argue he choose for gunners. In my view i think his last shot try to enjoy that. BUT mayb a stupid move coz his place wont guarantee at there (least at this moment). i dont thing our transfer committee really want him that badly (maybe some list he still unchecked yet) so just move on scout elsewhere no big deal

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  44. Dude, experience is needed in our squad, look how our defence benefited from using carrager in place of skrtel ...

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  45. Wengers buying record aint that good lately Otherwise the Arsenal squad would look a lot better than it currently does.

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  46. A little Bit of topic but Christian atsu from porto is up for grabs for a cut price (3-5 Million) ...
    what Do you think ? Is he a real target ? I would take him without the blink of an eye!


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  47. We've agreed terms with West Ham as well but Carrol is still at the club. If Williams doesn't sign, nothing is over yet. Having said that, if he goes elsewhere so be it. He isn't that exceptional. There are plenty of defenders out there who are just as good.

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  48. Well couldnt say i am happier i have the distinct feeling he may not of been too welcome anyway.
    Hopefully that paves the way for a younger more skillful player to come in.

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  49. I don't know why so many people were unhappy about his potential transfer. He's a good solid player who probably would have helped. It's not really fair to react until we see who replaces him.

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  50. True, also because Carra is a much better player than Skrtel.

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  51. There's something I don't understand. How can he "snub" us when we havn't even put in any sort of offer ??

    When Sahin went back to Dortmund you said the same thing "why is he good enough for them and not for us?". Fact is he's hardly played a game since joining them back.

    Also, Wenger being "one of the best judges of talent in Europe" has lead him to sign Mertesacker, Squillacci, Andre Santos, ...

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  52. Skrtel was wonderful for us last season ...
    Hes just not made for a high defensive line - neither is carrager, but with him we set much deeper in defence, because he told others what to do , skrtel would never Do that, theres no leader instinct in him IMO

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  53. Papadopoulus has far more experience at the top level, is younger and a similar price. Williams is a good player, but I'd take Papa over him any day.

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  54. the board said no. this is good. papa is ten times the player.

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  55. Chris Rossington11:12 am, May 25, 2013

    No disrespect intended but they have more experience of signing players than yourself! As they have actually put the money in and signed someone! Find it hard to listen to you talk about experience in this matter, after all the approach they are taking is one that has worked for them in another sport! So they have experience of success when using this approach!

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  56. Chris Rossington11:27 am, May 25, 2013

    Some summers we get linked to 30/40 names, I highly doubt that at some point we wanted to sign all of them! Also are you telling me that sometimes agents don't just say clubs are interested to try and get some more interest in a player!

    Also I do believe they make something up, last season when Rodgers was hired he did an interview with Allan brazil on talksport, he said he wanted to sign 3 players before season, sky sports later went with a headline similar to Rodgers doesn't think the squad needs strengthening and actually quoted from talksport! I couldn't believer it to be honest and in comments section you could see some fans saying things like so pretty much sayin we are skint, it was a wind up really, a few pointed out this but it wasn't taken down or changed sometimes I just think they go for something for their own agenda! People had forgotten about Suarez, for a while now but saw another rumour last night with him to Real Madrid for 30 mill, I just can see why we would sell our best player well under his true value!

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  57. Age n wages. It's obvious Arsenal are offering better wages... jeez, he probably getting more at Swansea than we've offered him.
    My feeling is that FSG have noticed that the squad is limited to 25, but if you have U21 internationals on staff, you can use as many as you want? You have to bear in mind that there are certain qualifications for having a full 25 man squad - number of 'homegrown' players being the major one. This is how Hodgson managed to get lumbered with only 19 in the squad - Benitez left us with a squad of players that didn't fit the new regs. It's why there are a certain number of 'British' players bought every time we spend.
    Whoever we buy this summer, there WILL be an English/British player and players under 21.
    The days of just throwing money at the 25 best players in the world are over - even for Chelsea, Man City and Real Madrid.


    Anyhoo, I hear Moyes has sacked some of the backroom staff at OT (so much for "continuity") - another couple of nails in their coffin :)

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  58. Jamie k your a prick end of regardless of what you write here everyone has there own opinion and you delete it cause you disagree just remove the comment option and you won't have to be a loser deleting people who disagree with your repetitive bullshit. First and last time to comment so ban away I have a life. P.s how many times have you actually being to anfield or is it to far a flight

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  59. Great story my one point would be although you say Wenger has a talent for making great transfers I would argue that that only really applies to the front end of his squads as some of the keepers and defenders brought to Arsenal by Wenger have been absolute dross. Not saying they all have as there are a few gems in there but the majority of defensive transfers mad by Wenger are shambolic.

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  60. Stuart Campbell12:53 pm, May 25, 2013

    As you say it's still all just speculation. Also assuming we have "lost out" to arsenal why blame FSG - again this is more speculation based on a general policy. As they say rules are for the guidance of wise men and the adherance of fools. in other words if an individual fitted the bill and gave us something we were lacking I doubt that age would necessarily stop him being signed. There may well be other factors that MIGHT explain why he MIGHT not sign for Liverpool and MIGHT sign for Arsenal or then again he MIGHT stay put MIGHTN't he?. Seems a bit thin for a story to me........

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  61. According to Opta stats Williams made more mistakes than Skrtel.

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  62. Nonsense. OPTA doesn't collect stats on 'mistakes'. Nice try.

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  63. Umm...how long has it been since you won a trophy? 'Nough said!

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  64. Williams openly said he wanted to knock Suarez out, now were keeping the big man happy by not signing him simple.


    Suarez not going anywhere.


    Also expect Erikson deal to be wrapped up soon, £15 million bid wanted ... coincidentally the same amount we have just INSTANTLY accepted for AC rather than seeing if an improved offer comes over the summer.


    If he fucks that up I for one wont be happy as Erikson is already familiar with how to play with Suarez.


    If Carroll goes to Westham this week were getting Erikson, its all gone behind closed doors no paper talk anything, its happening the Liverpool way

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  65. Honestly, do FSG think that all players are manufactured, programmed robots with a common use by date?

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  66. Two words: Champions. League.

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  67. Sounds like a lot of speculation to me. Do we even have a reliable source that says FSG killed the transfer based purely on his age? The transfer window isn't even open yet and we've already started the soap opera story lines ...


    Liverpool are in pole position ... Oh no, Arsenal are interested ... but the player prefers Liverpool ... but here come the big bad owners and they say he's too old ... Arsenal get the player ... boooohhhh


    Come on, this is made up trash that sells papers and some people are just too easily sucked in to believing any of it's true.

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  68. I`m not that keen to get him, but if he did come it wouldn`t be that bad either. I view him as a middle of the road signing. I`m sure he would improve our squad in the sense that now Carra has gone we have a gap, but he doesn`t fill me with joy.

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  69. Errors lead to goals or shots

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  70. works like this ...... It's my ball,play by my rules or you're not playin!!

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  71. they get shed loads wrong "The Truth"

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  72. Better off with the Greek kid...
    If he can be great in that kind of a league with such dynamic where he is to play quick yet safe and where he is under attack very often no matter who are they playing against then combined with his youth and experience, he is very good option.
    Plus Ashley would be so much drama with his history with BR and being domestic player...

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  73. Well said Joe,brilliant response.

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  74. Kyriakos Papadopolous will be a good alternative and although new to EPL, he will more importantly be younger, fitting the official transfer policy of FSG.

    Further, it will give the team a look of revival in quest of top four and the glory days of the past.

    Today Bayern is playing Dorthmund at Wembley and as LFC fans this do remind us of istanbul in 2005. We long to be back in this mood again.



    One way or the other, there is a definite feeling that we shall be shining in the next EPL because it is clear that the management will be doing everything to keep key players. We have a coach who is not one in transition but someone looking to produce a team with its own style and one looking to be in top four at least.

    If we look at lfc now, we do have two teams with the usual starting 11, there is another team with Sterling, Susso, Coady, Ibe, Jonhjo, Allen, Borini, Kelly coming back soon etc. The key will be to get all the players to stay and stick to the ambitions of the team. With one or two more addition at the back and a goalkeeper I think we HAVE to be ready for next EPL.

    We have been very patient as fans and I hope that our glory days are coming back again.

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  75. Writer posts another story with an inquisitive headline, will he do anything for a site hit?

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  76. Football journos in general seem to follow the simple premise - throw enough sh!te at a wall and eventually something will stick.


    The same journalists will make up entirely contradictory stories day after day and just assume that the reader will take their word for truth because of the name of the rag carrying the story.


    The majority of the time I am 99% sure that there are no real "insider" sources involved at all, and the stories are based purely on the journalists own conjecture. e.g. Mourinho, Pelligrini & Moyes transfer targets being "common knowledge" on the very day it it becomes common knowledge that they would join new clubs, and before they even join said clubs!

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  77. The sheer numbers of rumors printed make it very easy to state that most journalists print more false rumors, than ones that turn out to be true.

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  78. Rather get Kolo on a free and sign Papadopolous, plus we will have Kelly as a real choice for CB as well as Wisdom. With regards to FSG's player model, when you people were having a hissy fit over Sneijder we managed to get Coutinho who is better than him at the moment and is improving all the time. This scouting team managed to get City some good talent and they brought in Coutinho and Sturridge, I trust them and I think that we'll get some quality in the transfer window. I have a feeling that the scouting team had a choice between Sneijder and Coutinho and advised the club to bid for the latter because he was better value, purely speculating but it makes sense.

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  79. Proved wrong yet again!

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