6 Mar 2013

'Why would he say that?' - Angry LFC legend blasts Roy Keane. Grudge...?

Liverpool legend Steve Nicol has criticised former Manchester United captain Roy Keane for his comments about Nani's controversial red card during last night's Champions League defeat to Real Madrid.

After game, Keane - who led United to Champions League glory in 1999 - insisted that the referee made the right decision to send off the Portuguese winger. He told ITV Sport:

"It's dangerous play, it's a red card. Does he think there are no other players on the pitch?

"To be fair to the referee, he took a few minutes, spoke to his assistant and decided it was a red card.

"Whether he [Nani] meant it or not is irrelevant. It was dangerous play, red card"


Analysing the red card incident on ESPN, a supremely irritated Steve Nicol argued that the referee got it wrong, and (indirectly) accused Keane of having some kind of grudge against his old club. He barked:

"Why would an ex-Man United captain come out and say something like that? There’s nothing objective about it, there’s something behind it.

"I’ve spoken to a lot of footballers about this issue, and not one of them has said it was a red card. There’s something else going on with him".


Nicol's view here is indicative of the negative, counter-productive tribal nature of football fandom these days. The implication here is that fans should not criticise their own players, or have an opinion that deviates from the perceived group norm.

Typically, when someone does deviate from the mob, they're accused of having some personal ulterior motive, and Nicol suggests that here with Keane. Could it not just be that the ex-midfielder actually believes it was a red card? Is he the only person on the planet to hold this improbable view?!

Why does there have to be 'something behind' Keane's view? Is he not entitled to his own personal opinion? Should he just agree with majority to avoid conflict? Should he just toe the line to ingratiate himself with everyone? Of course not. That is cowardice, and I applaud Keane for having the balls to tell it like it is.

I absolutely hate the idea that being a football fan has to be about blind faith, blanket support, and turning a blind eye to the actions of players simply because you support their team. People may not like Keane's opinion, but he is entitled to it, and if that upsets the raving, intolerant mob, then great. Job done.

As for whether it was actually a red card. I'd love to give an opinion, but it's out of my hands as I'm genetically wired to agree with every decision that goes against Man United.





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65 comments:

  1. Had Arbeloa made the same challenge on Nani, Fergie and OT would be screaming for a red card, end of story!!!.................it was a red-card as Collina has said today and he is the UEFA ref's technical chief.

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  2. Jamie even if it was`nt a red its about time the luck Man U have is bad for a change, welcome to the real world SIR Alex.

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  3. not for money like you Steve.

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  4. Watching his comments in the video, there's nothing Keene said should have given anyone any thought that he holds a grudge against his old club. And honestly, he's right, it is dangerous play. 

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  5. I love his response when Gareth Southgate says 'He didn't know he was there'. Keane is spot on when he says 'does he think he'll have 20 yards all to himself? Does he think there isn't anyone else on the pitch'. Nani should've been more aware of his surroundings. Instead of trying to control the ball, he should've backed into the player and tried to chest it/head it.

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  6. liverpool4life5655:28 pm, March 06, 2013

    Keane has his opinion, others have there own, it was a 50/50 could of gone either way...

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  7. Roy Keane has it spot on. Intentional or not wants you bring your foot in to the air then you are taking the risk of committing dangerous play. You have to be aware of the others on the pitch, you can't just think you are the only player on the pitch. When Nani went for he entered a type of play called the 5 yard frenzy where both players do anything in receiving a loose ball and in this play there is a high chance of committing a foul.

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  8. I think you have read it all wrong Jamie, Nicol doesn`t seem to be saying that at all. From reading what was said, all I can see it that Nicol has said all the other footballers agreed with him, so is questioning why Keane has a different view. Nothing in the article what so ever that suggests a fan or ex player can`t say a bad word about there own club. Getting that from what is written is one big leap of faith. 

    The latter part of the article which seems to suggest that having a different view from the "mob" means you get questioned, is no different at all from having the same view as the "mob". I have read many a article from yourself, which suggested if you have the same view as the mob, you are all sorts of things, when in truth neither side is anything. Nothing wrong with having a view the same as the rest, or different from it. Just cause the view is different, doesn`t make it anymore right. 

    does keane have a different issue, who knows, its a perfectly valid question to ask though. Unless because his view is different he is not allowed to be questioned. I question all pundits, on all things, and am not interested, in if they are a solo view or a group view, treat them all as equal. 

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  9. refin is all about angles the position the ref was in he had no choice .it was a high boot into the ribs weather he meant it does not come into it

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  10. I ike how you conveniently miss the section of that point that actually matters. There is a difference between:

    * Having the same view as others, and:
    * having the same view, and then attacking someone else for not sharing that view.

    That is the point here. Nicol has basically attacked Keane for having the temerity to have a different opinion. he could've just said 'Keane has his view, but I disagree etc', but no - he has to suggest there's something personal about it, which is a subtle form of belittlement.

    That is the issue here. When I refer to the 'mob', I'm talking about fans who attack others for having a different view.

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  11. from one cork man to another, well said roy

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  12. He could have killed the boy!

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  13. sorry steve nicol,it doesnt work that way.when an x man ure player runs down one of his own wee applaud him.can you see robson or neville backing us,no chance.

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  14. Hi guys, united fan here. Firstly I'm surprised at this article appearing on an lfc forum, I suppose the Steve nicol comment is the link so fair enough. Secondly I don't think the decision was that bad, harsh perhaps, but not terrible. As for Roy Keane, he is entitled to his opinion. I think that Keane never looked for excuses as a player and wasn't prepared to give united any reason to excuse their loss last night. However, ex players usually side with their club on issues like this, like Jamie redknapp for example, always pro lfc and anti-utd. Fair enough, no issue there but Keane is different and in some ways should be applauded for his impartiality. However, the way that Keane was kicked out of the club has definitely left some bitterness on his part and he's stuck the boot in a couple of times previous to this. It's a shame from a united fan's point of view because he was a hero to us and now he just comes across as a citter bunt. No big issue though, the world is still turning and Roy Keane's views, like them or not wont change a thing, apart from how united fans view him.

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  15. When Carroll left we were led to believe that if West Ham stayed up it was a done deal, now it seems this wasnt the case, if this is true heads must roll as it would be worst piece of business ever - risking devaluing your assets for no gain.

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  16. Nothing conveinent about it Jamie. It is my take on it. Which point/section actually matters is subjective surely? otherwise it would be a form of belittlement to suggest the section you prefer "matters more" than the one I prefer. Way I see it is, Nicol is perfectly within his rights to question Keane, regardless of if Keane had the same or different view as himself, if anything that is a non-argument. Nothing is slanderous, and merely speculative, which he states, therefore all seems ok to me. 

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  17. I don't really accept that intention should not be taken into account when deciding on these incidents. However if that is how the law is to be interpreted then I accept it. So given that, should not the Madrid goal keeper have been sent off in the 1st half for punching Vidic in the face? He came to punch the ball, completely missed and punched Vidic straight in the face. No intention to do that obviously but according to the law you cited, the keeper should know where every player is, even more so when defending a corner, he endangered the player by his action so a sending off right?

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  18. I think the word "Harsh" sums it up nicely. It was def a yellow, and could have been a red, or might not. So it was harsh to get a rad, but not totally unfair. You are right Keane does have some history with this, so maybe Nicol is correct, and Keane isn`t just saying what he sees, but does have a aire of bitterness to his words. Hard to tell. Truth is we will never know. I completely get the feelings utd fans have towards Keane, as I feel the same with Owen. He was a great player for us, but then i hear him talk and its always about utd, or madrid or putting Liverpool down, and I get split on if I like the guy or not.

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  19. It's a tough one. I was completely shocked when he first gave the red. Delighted, but shocked. I think that by the letter of the law, Keane is correct, but anyone who has played the game would know that you don't usually get sent off for that challenge. He had his eye on the ball all the way. Yes, he should of been more aware of his surroundings but I was expecting it to be a yellow and I'm a Liverpool fan. I thought the ref let the occasion get to him. His decisions got stranger as the game went on. Still.......delighted! About time purple nose got a dodge ref!!!

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  20. Cried laughing at that part, as Steve Nicol he gives plenty of opinions I think are crap but like Roy he's entitled to them. Nobody else on the pitch class..

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  21. Personally I thought it was a yellow but cant argue with the red either - it was one of those decisions.  As for Nicol, it appears he isn't the only one who disagreed with Keane having an opinion that might have been genuinely his opinion. Most footballers toe the line either because they always defend their own kind (ie the player rather than the ref) or they are asked to be positive for tv and marketing reasons. There was a scottish pundit on Irish radio this morning saying it is an irish thing as the irish only disagree to be noticed.  Utter b%llsh$t. No matter what you think of the irish pundits, they usually speak their mind no matter who it offends. The panel on RTE football is the best because they can say what ever they want (and they usually do). Watch the difference in Souness on RTE and on Sky...different panelist. We need more panelists to say what they think. Nicol should know better.

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  22. Was there a foul called when the Real Keeper punched Vidic?  I didn't see the game, but if there was no foul called, then you can't just say the keeper should have been shown the locker rooom.

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  23. Keane's comment has been labeled, wait for it "a rant" why are comment's and opinions that are directed at the mancs regarded as rant's, the only thing i seen ranting last night was old whiskey nose.
    Not nice is it fergie when injustice (or so called) goes against you,so deal with it i mean you have still got the FA and media plugging for you.

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  24. Im actually surprised ITV hire Keane,I know the BBC would defo not employ him because Keane actually has the balls to say it as it is and simply aint a yes man like the overwhelming majority of so-called 'pundits'

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  25. There are two things to consider here. First of all, if you saw the bit when Chiles read out the actual rule, you can absolutely understand why the ref made the decision. In this sense, I suppose most viewers, and Nani, were guilty of being ignorant of the rules (regardless of how good that rule is).

    Secondly, I think Nicol is only being a bit unreasonable. His comments are a bit disrespectful, but I do think that sometimes you've got to take Keane's opinion with a pinch of salt because his instinct is to adversarial (not unlike JK).

    This is not a bad thing, not wholly anyway, as some would think. There is good and bad to this. The bad is that it means sometimes taking a view that opposes the mainstream is a matter of course, a reflex. This is unfortunate, but I think people who are willing to do this are very much necessary. That is because of the good: their natural instinct to challenge paradigms, conventional wisdom and popular misunderstandings and this can lead to new schools of thought.

    As Blake said 'Without contraries is no progression'.

    I think Keane is a great pundit and shakes things up. I think it'll be great to see Carra battle wits with either Keane or Neville, depending on where he goes.

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  26. As a former referee, and refereeing that game I would have sent him off it was dangerous play. In his career Roy Keane wasn't a lover of refs
    as we all know. Well done Roy Keane for for making your stance! More than the other establishment 3.  Gutless!!!! 

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  27. No there was no foul called, that's the point, it was an accident. However, it could be argued that nani's challenge was equally accidental. Both challenges endangered an opponent, but only one resulted in a sending off.

    In saying that, it's football, anomalies like this happen, the ref gave what he thought was the right decision on both occasions and that's that.

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  28. (( could of killed him )) !!! haha
    id go as far as to say nani knew he was there, as a footballer you have an idea someone is within 10 yards say, and from another angle you can clearly see nani pushing his foot forward in to arba with his studs.
    its dangerous and careless, i don't agree with half what keane comes out with but id say hes right on this one.
    i like Dixon he speaks sense most the time, as for southgate what a plum.
    other way round on nani fergie would of been reacting how he did when the red appeared.
    what goes around will eventually come around.
    nicol sadly likes the sound of his own voice...............must of been in usa to long !!!!

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  29. One things for sure Southgate was about to cry when Keane stood his ground!

    Had the shoe been on the other foot they would have surrounded the ref to send the player off.

    The real reason utd lost the game is Fergie got the timing of his subs wrong. With 2 goals required and the game in the bag why didnt fergie just shut up shop? Why not bring on a defender ? or maybe someone to pack the midfield? Instead he persisted in Giggs, Welbeck and Van Persie when 2 of the 3 should have been removed for defensive players?

    Fergie and UTD are spoil sports. Clive Tyldsley made some horrendously biased comments at the end of the game which was unfortunate. UTD have always benefited from dodgy decisions - infact not so long ago Clattenberg made 3 howlers in a seson defining game against chelskea - not only did they lose the game, it derailed their season and lost a successful manager his job. Did fergie or UTD fans have any sympathy for "how a big game was decided by the ref"? 

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  30. As far as I'm concerned it wasn't the fact Nani's foot connected with Arbaloas chest it was that he kicked at at the moment of connection, very subtle but I saw it. Even if I am biased.  What did Auld Red Nose say about Shelvey's unwarranted red card? Thats football. Well Sir Auld Fart, that too is football. And about time too.

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  31. We all know Clive Tyldsley has a Manure bias, no change there.

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  32. According to FIFA law 12, it depends on whether the ref sees it as careless, reckless or excessive force. If its careless, give only a foul. If its reckless, its a yellow. If its excessive force, its a red card. To me, it was a careless or reckless. Red card was OTT, imo. Its a interpretation thing, so whether one thinks its a red or a yellow or just a foul only, all are right to a certain extent. If that sort of incident is going to be a red card, than so should a keeper trying to punch the ball, instead punches a player. That is just as reckless or excessive, if not more.No secret that Keane has barely a good word to say about that lot since he was kicked out of the club. Even though he kinda had a valid view, the bitterness is clear to see whenever I see him overseeing their game. To put it mildy, he was not a nice chap as footballer and its no surprise he isn't one now either. Funny watching him stamping his authority in the ITV studios, Dixon and Southgate were so meek! 

    Nice to see them lot getting knocked out but that doesn't nowhere near substitute for us not being in there in the place, regardless of how much RAWK-ites go on about it. Boy do I miss seeing us in CL :(

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  33.  keane is the most entertaining pundit by far...

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  34. i cant stand steve nicol ....why i dont know i have no logical reason to i just find him so tedious..in fact theres only aldo and fowler as ex players of liverpool i have ant time for i detest the rest

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  35. Jaimie- Was it a red card? Would love your opinion on this

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  36. Before the game Keane was saying that Rooney not being in the starting line-up means he'll probably be leaving at the end of the season. You would have to wonder why an ex-Man U captain would be saying things like that. He must have had a bust up with old whiskey nose.

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  37. At first I was sure it wasnt a red card, then just before Keane spoke adrian Chiles read out the definition and to be fair it explained why the ref made the call. Nicol says he has spoken to other players and they say it was a yellow but that counts for nothing. Football is a bit of a joke at the moment as players/ex players/pundits/commentators just dont know the rules a lot of the time. They just whine about decisions based on their badly percieved views.

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  38. "These things happen in football, they even themselves out over the season"..ouch did I just quote Sir Alex comments on Shelvey sending off against United to answer his other murdering quote regarding Williams and all said in the same season so why get so distraught enough to ignore the press that has served you so well.

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  39. The more I see it, the more it looks like Nani deliberately has a second motion and kicks out at Arbeloa at a right angle to initial coming together.

    I think he tries to getaway with a sneaky one...

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  40. Keane was right to say that nani should have gone for a high tackle like that dont understand what nicol been a liverpool fan if the tackle was on a saturday afternoon it still was a red card what ever club because its united we have to feel sorry take it on the chin fergie again.....

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  41. I think the red card can be justified by the letter of the law, but I personally don't think it warranted straight red. A yellow would've been fine. The ref had discretion there, and (IMO) he tool the wrong option.

    No one would've batted an eyelid if only a yellow had been given. No enquiry, no uproar, no media circus, and I doubt Collina would've been ont he ref's case after the game.

    There's just no consistency. Tackles far worse than that don't even get carded sometimes. It's ridiculous really. The ref should've considered the occasion, but ultimately, he bottled it.

    Again though, by the letter of the law, the Red can be justified, but that doesn't (IMO) make it right.

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  42. Some great comments and opinions but I don't give a jot about Man U or their Legends. I think it's great that they won't be any nearer our 5 European cups.
    I respect what they have achieved and there time at the top has to come to the end at some point.

    I just miss them champion league nights at Anfield. So lets get behind our great club.

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  43. I'm in violent agreement.

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  44. OK...I watched about 5 different versions on You Tube.  I think the deliberation was not about the initial studs up, high boot.  That would have been a yellow. I think the red card was ultimately because of the extra push with the right boot after the contact.  It wasn't apparent in the first 3 clips I saw because the camera angle was directly behingd Nani, but in the last couple it was obvious.  After the initial contact there is a definite push away with the boot...clear red card at that point to me as Nani was no longer making a play for the ball but was engaged in a studs up, high boot to the chest. 

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  45. Sivakumarannarayanan1:39 am, March 07, 2013

    yes. if it was a united player, SAF would be screaming . What goes around, comes around. It was a red card. Period

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  46. I wish commentators, Media and all ex players would learn the rules of the game. The Ref did not make a wrong decision. Rules are determined by "The opinion of the referee" If he deemed it was  serious foul play stiff its the end of story.

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  47. Rushdi Ganief "YNWA''3:56 am, March 07, 2013

    In my view in big games Man U always seems to get the decision there way, for once it went the other way SHELVEY, ADAM, GERRARD, ALL saw red for similar tackles, so don't cry over spill milk & forget about the treble, HAHA

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  48. Keane was right in every sense!

    There was no intent by Nani in the first instance to play anything other than the ball. I'm sure he assumed there was no player near him and therefore putting nobody in harms way.

    But when he does impact Arbi he clearly extends/kicks his leg in the direction of the player with intent. Admittedly there was no contact at that point..

    But intent was most definitely there... Hence Nani acting injured first grabbing his chest then thinking it better to hold leg instead lol

    Anyways... Rafael clearly should have seen red for his UNINTENTIONAL goal line clearance with his arm!

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  49. ChampsWinnerTraore7:31 am, March 07, 2013

    Problem is most fans expect because you are a fan you should toe the club line and go with the majority view so i applaud keane for holding his own it doesnt mean he got some kinda agenda he just defending his opinion though i believe the red card was a bit harsh but people like Nicol shouldnt question the motives of a guy because his view is not that of the majoruty

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  50. Nicol really needs to get a life. It's bad enough he feels compelled to have a misguided opinion on all things Liverpool but now he is on about Man United too? Right or wrong, you have to be gracious in defeat, which once again Ferguson has shown himself not to be. I hope UEFA fine him for not showing up for the press conference.

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  51. Owen's legend began faltering the minute we started getting great strikers at LFC - Torres (*spit*), Suarez, Sturridge...

    I guess it was Rafa's fault/mistake/stroke of genius (take your pick) for letting him go...

    But yes, Suarez et al will be smashing any Owen records still left faltering and he will disappear into obscurity as a former liverpool player, NOT a legend. 

    Sorry Michael Owen

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  52. Whenever a controversial decision goes against another team (usually in favor of united) it's never given more than a passing hour, but God forbid this should happen to Fergie and his boys, and suddenly the world has ended! People get death threats, the media in outrage, ex players being labelled traitors, CO2 levels increase as MUFC fans open their gobs collectively in outburst and the mob gets madder.

    STOP CRYING YOU SPOILT MANCHESTER FANS... YOU HAVE ACHIEVED GREAT SUCCESS OVER THE YEARS, STOP YOUR CRYING, THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU! AND IN WHAT DREAM WORLD DID YOU ACTUALLY THINK YOU COULD BEAT THE MIGHTY MADRID AND EMULATE LIVERPOOL! 

    Finger on the lips and go to the corner... there's a good lad/lass

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  53. Cheeky little last sentence - JK, born to be a Red :P 

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  54. NANI MAYBE DIDNT INITIALY MEAN IT BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPLY AFTER HE COMMITTED HIMSELF HE STRECTCGES HIS LEG FURTHER AND GIVES HIM A KIND OF NUDGE WITH HIS FOOT EITHER WAY ITS DEFO RED CARD. IT'S DONE NOW MAN UTD FANS GO TO SLEEP JUST PREMIER LEAGUE THIS SEASON YOU'LL ALSO BE AWARDED A RED CARD AGAINST CHELSKI IN THE FA CUP CHELSKI WILL WIN THAT MATCH BENITEZ TOO MENTALLY STRONG WHEN YOUR ON A LOW AFTER CRASHING OUT CHAMPIONS LEAGUE LOL MARK MY WORDS

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  55. It was definitely a red card, without doubt as Fergie would say. I saw the ref produce it.

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  56. It was murder!! Arbeloa is lucky to be alive!!

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  57. I find it funny that the whole argument from Utds side is that Nani didn't see him when he actually did. I was watching the game on Nederland 3 as I live in Holland and after the game, they highlighted Nani and clearly showed that he looked down the line before making the run so he definitely saw Arbeloa coming. When you take that into consideration, it was a definite red imo. He knew Arbeloa was coming so should have tried to chest it and get his body in between to protect the ball. It doesn't look like this was picked up by ITV. Hardly surprising though, it is ITV afterall.

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  58. I don`t think it had anything to do with Rafa, from my understanding the deal for Owen was already done when Rafa came in, and he tried to stop it, but it was too llate.

    I still think he was a legend when he was with us, just because he then said bad stuff about us, and went to utd, for me doesn`t take away from what he did when with us.

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  59. I made no reference to that, although it was pretty bad...

    I was merely speaking of how other players have and will now continue to better him for Liverpool. Suarez has done it, and I see Sturrdge doing it, perhaps even Coutinho...

    Owen is no longer of huge significance...
    You can't compare God to Owen can you?
    But you can compare God to Suarez (different strikers albeit)

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  60. Pretty sure Ive heard GNev praise us over united when it was deserved and lambasted United for bad play, I've got to say he's becoming a very good pundit

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  61. One point nobody has made yet , From the replays nani actually outstretches his leg forward on impact , instead of pulling it back. So I believe he may not intend for it to happen but he did put the boot in so red card was right call.

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  62. If this was Suarez everyone would be screaming HE NEARLY KILLED HIM !!! BAN HIM FOR LIFE !!! Double standards Man U fans

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  63. aye if suarez had done it fergie would have said he shouldnae be in england .... erm sorry he has already said that - maybe he would have requested belmarsh or guantanamo bay for him?

    Or if suarez had done the "UNINTENTIONAL" handball Tyldsley would have said "thats the actions of a cheat"?

    How about if Suarez had mockingly clapped the ref at the end of the game then the media would have called for a life time ban for bringing the game into disrepute?

    Its simple its called the "shoe on the other foot"!

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  64. Sir Alex is habituated to get favorable decision from the officials in EPL; but in Continental Europe, MU is not that big as they look in UK & absolutely no match for Real, when it comes to get favorable marginal decisions.  However, I am not saying that Real got the favor of the Turkish official, he took his time, discussed with the linesman & finally decided the verdict.  & he was aware that, the whole football world 'll be discussing the decision. 

    Also, in EPL, officials are much lenient on defenders in terms of foul & cards.  High boot, touching the chest of a running winger, for a common ball - "Goodbye".  I have seen "Red" in Spain or Italy for far lesser challenges.

    I would have written the same, apart from the first line, had it been against Liverpool. 

       

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  65. I love all you kopites backing the referee..

    If Liverpool were in Europe and Gerrard got a red card for the same situation you'd all be fucking seething...probably even worse than we were...

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