Liverpool's enigmatic striker Luis Suarez put in another excellent overall performance against Reading last Saturday, but once again, he squandered numerous glit-edged chances with his poor finishing. Against better teams, Liverpool will inevitably be punished for such wastefulness, and Anfield legend Steve Nicol believes there may be a mental component to the Uruguayan's lack of composure in front of goal.
Analysing Liverpool's performance on ESPN last night, Nicol - who recently called for the FA to suspend Spurs 'cheat' Gareth Bale - argued:
"He [Suarez] could’ve had a hat-trick against Reading, and we’re talking about cutting out all the other stuff, that’s clearly a problem between his ears.
"I think that carries on when he gets a chance in front of goal. He’s a great player, but he’s just not composed enough to take those chances, which is why misses so many".
I'm not entirely sure what Nicol's point is here, but he seems to be suggesting that Suarez has some kind of psychological issue that compels him to cheat, and this somehow also affects his decision-making when he's trying to score goals.
Sounds like a lot of hooey to me; I personally don't think the cheating is a mental issue; it seems to be instinctive Cheating is in Suarez's blood, and from watching his many dives, it's clear he does it without even thinking, and that is a far more worrying prospect that someone who actively thinks about cheating in the moment.
If only the same principle applied to Suarez's finishing, but the opposite seems to be true: the Uruguayan seems to think too much in the heat of the moment, which leads to him snatching at chances through a combination of indecision and lack of composure.
People have a go at me for constantly criticising Suarez, but it's only because it's so disappointing to see a player of his talent cheat so much. I love watching Suarez play, just like I loved watching the likes of John Barnes, Peter Beardsley and Steve McManaman play.
The difference is, those players never cheated, and if they had done, I would've been equally critical of them, irrespective of their ability.
Suarez dived again in the first half against Reading, and rather ironically, he received a free kick for it (!). The worst part was, however, hearing the Anfield crowd rapturously applauding the dive, which confirms what I've been arguing all along: fans don't care about cheating, and will actively condone and encourage it as long as their team gains an advantage.
Jaimie Kanwar
Analysing Liverpool's performance on ESPN last night, Nicol - who recently called for the FA to suspend Spurs 'cheat' Gareth Bale - argued:
"He [Suarez] could’ve had a hat-trick against Reading, and we’re talking about cutting out all the other stuff, that’s clearly a problem between his ears.
"I think that carries on when he gets a chance in front of goal. He’s a great player, but he’s just not composed enough to take those chances, which is why misses so many".
I'm not entirely sure what Nicol's point is here, but he seems to be suggesting that Suarez has some kind of psychological issue that compels him to cheat, and this somehow also affects his decision-making when he's trying to score goals.
Sounds like a lot of hooey to me; I personally don't think the cheating is a mental issue; it seems to be instinctive Cheating is in Suarez's blood, and from watching his many dives, it's clear he does it without even thinking, and that is a far more worrying prospect that someone who actively thinks about cheating in the moment.
If only the same principle applied to Suarez's finishing, but the opposite seems to be true: the Uruguayan seems to think too much in the heat of the moment, which leads to him snatching at chances through a combination of indecision and lack of composure.
People have a go at me for constantly criticising Suarez, but it's only because it's so disappointing to see a player of his talent cheat so much. I love watching Suarez play, just like I loved watching the likes of John Barnes, Peter Beardsley and Steve McManaman play.
The difference is, those players never cheated, and if they had done, I would've been equally critical of them, irrespective of their ability.
Suarez dived again in the first half against Reading, and rather ironically, he received a free kick for it (!). The worst part was, however, hearing the Anfield crowd rapturously applauding the dive, which confirms what I've been arguing all along: fans don't care about cheating, and will actively condone and encourage it as long as their team gains an advantage.
Jaimie Kanwar
The fans on the stands might have thought it was a foul, but that does not solve the issue of them bringing up ridiculous excuses for Suarez's diving when it is discussed. Suarezs will come and go, but fans' wrong attitude towards moral and sportsmanship issues leaves a really dark spot on the image of club and its supporters.
ReplyDeleteIf di canio had picked up the ball in front of a clear goal beacuse the goalie was fouled in the build up in the modern game he would be shot by the home fans the game has changed so has the mentality of the players and fans
ReplyDeletePlayer haters
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I think that the crowd were applauding the fact that Suarez got a free kick, not the fact that he dived.
ReplyDeleteSuarez goes well over the top with his theatrics at times, but he gets fouled without being rewarded for his acts of skill, far more often than he dives and is rewarded for his act of dishonesty.
ReplyDeleteYou are being morally subjective. Who says that diving is even wrong? If when Suarez dives it is an instinct, like you suggest, then he is not deliberately cheating. If other people think it is OK then that is their right. You are basically imposing your morals onto others and then calling those that do not fall into line cheats.
ReplyDeletethere is no objective standard for morals in sport, it is not real life.
The way I see it Suarez is a diver. This is an issue and I hope Rodgers is working hard to remove it from his game, especially since he's such a good player he could be winning just as many pens through his honest play.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with the crowd cheering him winning a free, honest or otherwise since the opposing fans are booing him on every touch and players are accusing him of diving regardless of whether it is a foul or not! This to me is equally dishonest.
I also find it funny how quick defenders are to call him a cheat when you see these players constantly grab shirts or make "professional fouls" this to me is equally cheating. Maybe we should call them professional dives!
Yes, you're probably right, but there must have been some in the crowd that saw that he dived and still clapped. Additionally, I doubt it helps if the crowd reacts that way to every refereeing decisions.
ReplyDeletecount to 10 are thats it wont bother commenting i will only get barred iam begining to think you have a major issue with saurez its the same thing day in day out like you say jaimie if you dont like it go else where well if you cannot ever post anything posotive about suarez i suggest you dont do posts about him
ReplyDeleteIt's called having an opinion, Arabee. It's my opinion that diving is morally wrong, and that those who do it are cheats. I'm not imposing that opinion on anyone; I haven't said that my view is absolute, or that other people must share it. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Using your logic, anyone with an opinion must be imposing it on others, which is nonsense.
ReplyDeleteWho says diving is wrong? I don't even need to answer that question.
As an analogy, if someone instinctively kills someone else, does that mean they're not a murderer? According to you, they wouldn't be classed as a deliberate killer, but I doubt anyone else but you would share that view.
Saying 'there are no objective standards for morals in sport' is respect, the opinion of someone who condones cheating. It's a giant cop-out, and attitudes like that allow cheating to thrive in football.
Its funny the way you interpret someone's quotes. One thing doesn't change in it is the attack on Suarez for one reason or other! Point noted that you hate Suarez with passion but you don't get to decide who plays for Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteGive up now. You are wrong, not all Liverpool fans!
Get over it already. As I've explained many times, I have a problem with CHEATING in football, and I will continue hammering home that point as often as I can.
ReplyDeleteMany fans don't seem to care, and that irritates me beyond belief. The game is being ruined by cheats, and I will do my bit to highlight it. This site gets millions of visitors every month, so there is a platform to get the message out that cheating is wrong.
People may ignore it, but that doesn't bother me. I'll still keep highlighting it.
And before you accuse me of only focusing on Suarez, I highlight cheating from lots of different teams, and the 'Football Cheats' series shows that.
No, I do not 'hate' Suarez. That is such a simplistic way to see things, but it's entirely predictable. In the world of football fans, everything is always amazingly simplistic:
ReplyDelete* If you praise a player - you love him!
* If you criticise a player - you hate him! You have a personal problem with him etc.
It doesn't work that way with me. I don't hate any player; I don't know any of them personally so how can I? There is no personal element, and I defy you or anyone to show me any article I've ever posted that contains any kind of personal insult, or any comment that attacks a player personally.
Criticising a player's footballing flaws is not a personal attack. Calling Suarez a cheat is not a personal attack; it is a fact, based on the available evidence.
"There must have been some in the crowd that saw that he dived and still clapped"...Jamie K...armchair psychologist, or just a prick?
ReplyDeleteNor does it help if the referees deny him legitimate free kicks. In every game there has been at least one moment when Suarez should have been rewarded a foul but wasn't.
ReplyDeleteabsolutely behind you jaimie
ReplyDeleteI do think diving is wrong. My point is, what if hypothetically speaking a player has been brought up in an environment where diving is not considered cheating, constantly calling that player a cheat is harsh.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Suarez considers himself a cheat?
suarez the best ,,,,,,,,,,,,, get over it u no clue football fans
ReplyDeletePerhaps if Suarez hadn't constantly cheated over the last 18 months then refs wouldn't be so wary about giving him free kicks?
ReplyDeleteronaldo dived every week in epl and carried on diving and getting penalties certain team certain rules..
ReplyDeleteits every day its personal its harresment if suarez did read your posts he would be devastated also your comments policy evertime you make a post about suarez you break every rule eg insulting deogatory
ReplyDeleteWhether Suarez considers himself a cheat is arguably irrelevant. The world has condemned him for diving, and unless he lives in a cave, he'll be aware that the prevailing view is that diving is wrong, and it's a form of cheating.
ReplyDeleteRe the 'product of his environment' argument. Again, that's a cop out. The same tenuous argument was applied to his 'negro' comment about Patrice Evra, i.e. the idea that he was brought up in Uruguay to think that using that word was acceptable, therefore he couldn't be held accountable.
There might be a modicum of merit to that argument if Suarez had never left Uruguay; or never had any form of education, but that's not the case, is it?
So: Suarez is not a racist because it's okay to use the word 'negro' in Uruguay, and he's not a cheat because he was brought up to be a diver (!) - how many more negative things will he be allowed dodge responsibility for?
If someone murders and genuinely does not know they are doing wrong, they will be treated differently
ReplyDeleteI wish people would pipe down about Luis Suarez. Luis Suarez this that and the other. There are tonnes of other footballers out there. And he seems to get all the flack. Don´t you think it´s disproportionate? It´s like playschool and pantomime villains. The guy has made mistakes. So have we all. Nicol should know better. Suarez gets wound up on the pitch, but this year he´s clearly been working on that. He´s a very intelligent footballer, but he plays with his heart on his sleeve. He gives it everything. Look at how much he works off the ball. The players who are kicking out trying to foul him are acting illegally too.
ReplyDeleteYou´ve definitely got a bugbear here Jaimie. People are attracted to your site because you don´t tow the line, but when you get too obsessed it´s a bit offputting. It´s fine criticizing Suarez, Benitez or Gerrard, it´s good that people do that. It´s good to have objectivity for Liverpool fans, but if you do it too much it looks like you´re pushing an agenda. Just my two cents.
I'm going to get critised for this one - But I'd be happy to see the back of Suarez. Not because of the diving or other issues, but because I think he is far too selfish.
ReplyDeleteThe evidence would show that overall he is not consistent enough to lead the line as a main striker. I don't think his passing is good enough to occupy the wings effectively. And if someone offered me the same money we paid for him - I'd happily send him on his way.
Most won't agree, but look at it this way - Ever wonder why Suarez has such a terrible shots on target %? Becuase he rushes a shot instead of picking out a pass! How he didn't give the ball to Sahin on Saturday was absolutely criminal. Instead he cuts back to the outside taking on two out of position players and hurries through a shot. Awful stuff..
Agreed, but that's usually as a result of insanity, or some other mental affliction. As far as I'm aware, Suarez is not crazy (!), and he's exposed to the media, that constantly rams home the point that diving is wrong. Thus, it's hardly likely that Suarez is unaware that diving is wrong.
ReplyDeleteCall the Police.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Nothing I post about Suarez breaks the site's comment policy. Calling someone a diver or a cheat is not a personal insult, it is a fact.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comments, Padraig. I am pushing an agenda; an anti-cheating agenda.
ReplyDeleteIf someone instinctively kills someone else that is the very definition of manslaughter, murder being a premeditated act, so in the eyes of the law they perhaps wouldn't be deemed a Murderer. So your analogy is better suited to Arabee's point rather then your own.
ReplyDeleteWe have a totally different moral view of football in the UK because we have all been brought up on tough tackling, no-nonsense type football; the game has changed but many of our attitudes are still fixed on the way the game used to be played.
You have to take the rough with the smooth and accept that the quality of football we see now is vastly supperior, that has come with the influx of overseas players who have brought the diving and theatrics etc. with them also. We have learnt quickly however with the likes of Owen, Rooney, A Young, Bale etc. all being British players who are not adverse to a dive here or there. We also don't castigate defenders for doing the diving hand gesture when they have just fouled someone, or a player who appeals for a throw in or corner they know they didn't win, why?
What I find unseemly is the foreign players always seem to get more attention, and for longer, than the English players who dive. We have British players being accused of sexual assualts on women, commiting acts of violence on people on a night out, beating their wives/girlfriends (ex-girlfriends); Suarez for what it's worth comes across as a decent chap away from the pitch, I may in time be proved wrong. Maybe a little perspective is required.
Again with Suarez Jaimie , it seems to me that after 2 seasons of slating Dalglish , you have moved onto Suarez . Whether you like it or not , Suarez is Lfc's best player by a long way . Why don't you right an article about the worst and most consistent diver in the league , Gareth Bale . The same week suarez got stick for diving against Stoke , Bale took the worst dive you are ever likely to see and tried to get the Villa keeper sent off . I often visit your website in the hope that you might have something positive to say about Liverpool but all I see us you or Steve Nichol slating someone or other . I wish you would write a positive article for once about the team you supposedly support
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what Nicol is talking about either, in fact if you never picked up on most things he had to say I doubt most football fans would ever know. But with regards the diving issue, the EPL has had many big names over the years who are all divers and cheats, Drogba, Robben, Ronaldo to name a few. But with football now a business with millions of pounds at stake every game then cheating will continue, because just like in every other business you do what it takes to win otherwise you go bust.
ReplyDeleteEnglish football sold it's soul to the devil when it got into bed with Sky and now just like Sky and Murdoch it has to lie, cheat and do whatever it takes to survive. With a billion dollar morally bankrupt company like Sky as your paymaster it is hardly surprising our great game is falling further into disrepute.
Totally agree. Especially on your last paragraph
ReplyDeleteI've already posted about Gareth Bale:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpool-kop.com/2012/10/hes-embarrassment-nicol-calls-for-spurs.html
I write lots of positive stuff about LFC but, like so many others, you prefer to twist the truth to push your 'he hates Liverpool!' view.
Suarez, Like Rooney, M Hughes, Cantona, Maradonna and C Ronaldo has an edge to his game that is bordering on the uncontrollable. He plays on a fine line and it is merely luck that decides which side of the line, be it combative or combative destructive diving cheat that he falls on. As long as Luis is with us we have to accept that he'll always potentially be one game away from controversy.
ReplyDeleteFrom one Scorer of great goals who will never ever be a great goalscorer in the premiership to another......... I see Kuyt is now banging em in in Turkey! The pace of the prem separates the real finishers from the pretenders. Kuyt and Suarez will only be prolific in slower leagues or internationals.
I think Nicol has a problem between his ears. He is so focused on finding negative things to moan about. It's high time that he finds another managerial job so we don't have to listen to him anymore. He could also visit a shrink to find out why he is so negative and teach him to focus on the positive aspects of life.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting more than a little tired of seeing Luis apologise for shooting when team mates are far better placed. These pitch apologies are completely gutted out and empty because he repeatedly re offends. A little sincerity please Luis me boy! OR just stop apologising, tell whoever it is you didn't pass to to EFF OFF!
ReplyDeletehis apologies are like his dives..........
... but you´re focusing on individual more than any others. How many stories have you written about Suarez in comparison to the others? Even when you highlighted Bale diving, it could seem like you were just paying lip service to show you were being balanced. Don´t you think there are enough media outlets writing about Suarez? It´s over the top.
ReplyDeleteYou may not dislike him as a person, but all these stories in the media are targeting him personally (as opposed to other people)... and that´s not fair.
How many more stories now before the end of the season? 100? I´m getting tired of reading negative stories about him to be honest.
There are so many players who constantly cheat and still get the decisions. That can't be the reason then, can it.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I think a lot of players HAVE been brought up in a world where its deemed ok to dive, so it is in a way, like they dont know any better.
ReplyDeleteDoesnt make it right in anyway, and I really hope something is done, not just regarding Suarez, but all players that dive. Because it is ruining the game, and its also ruining my enjoyment of watching it.
If im watching Liverpool, and I see the another team win a penatly unfairly, or score an offside goal etc... Then I lose all interest in the game, and quite often stop watching, because it makes a mockery of the entire sport, when so many games these days seem to be determined by dodgy results.
Don't know whether I should agree with what you write or not, but somewhere else on the web there were plenty of Spurs fans who claimed that Bale doesn't dive, he just loses his balance. At least we consider that Suarez is going down easily.
ReplyDeleteHe is not a racist, because he wasn´t being racist. Don´t want to go over it again, but he was speaking spanish to a french person with intermediate spanish, who misunderstood what he said and originally claimed he´d been called the n-word. Of course diving cannot be justified because of where you grew up. That would be a silly argument.
ReplyDeleteOh, I don't know. In some places on this planet grown men get married to eight year olds. Different cultural background is all well and good, but that still is sick to most people on earth.
ReplyDeleteHahah, "If Suarez did read your posts he would be devastated"
ReplyDeletePure comedy gold! If players got upset over every little thing that was said about them on the internet they would be constantly crying and sulking.
Come on everyone hates Joey Barton, just a little bit ;-P
ReplyDeleteYeah, add Robben and Drogba to that list.
ReplyDeletefact in your opinion well it must be true end of story your just a cheap journalist making posts to earn money your not bothered about peoples feelings or the facts just the gossip
ReplyDeleteI just pictured Suarez coming on here, and being like "Jamie can be so mean" With a sad face on.
ReplyDeleteEven if we don't go into the morality issue, there are RULES of fair play in football, which state cheating is anti-football and should be punished, discouraged, etc. not because they are morally wrong, but because football has been designed to function without them, and general sportsmanship means being honest anyway. What other objective conditions do you need to stop making up excuses for cheats?
ReplyDeleteThough Gerrard has gotten away with plenty, in terms of spotlight on diving, and he plays for LFC.
ReplyDeleteThe world has not condemned him though, you and a few other bloggers/journalists do not represent the world
ReplyDeleteBy your own admission most fans support Suarez and what he does. saying the world CONDONES Suarez would be more accurate. You are morally in the minority.
you have a right not to like what he does but the constant name calling is not necessary.
you never mention Suarez's name without using the word cheat shortly after. He is a brilliant player who gives his all for the club but you choose to focus on one arguably immoral thing that he does.
"some people can't see a priest on a mountain of sugar"
Whatever, Arabee. I think if you do some rudimentary research you will see that dozens of newspapers, sports TV shows, pundits, ex-players etc across the globe has slammed Suarez for diving. If you want to stick your head in the sand, that's down to you.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't like seeing Suarez called a cheat, avoid articles I write about Suarez. I make no apology for calling him that - he is a cheat, and the mountains of available evidence prove that.
Perhaps if Suarez was giving free kicks and his opponents yellow cards every time that they were earned for the constant fouls on him, he wouldn't be so prone to exaggerating contact against him at times in an effort to induce such?
ReplyDeleteIts football ... they all so called"cheat"
ReplyDeleteJaimie , I have never said " you hate Liverpool " and I have submitted quite a few comments in this site . What I am saying is , you rarely have anything positive to say about Liverpool F.C. and if somebody disagrees with you , you generally respond with a paranoid / childish response .
ReplyDeleteJamie maybe Suarez displayed proper technique with his dive and the crowd appreciated his art
ReplyDeleteYes, it's a shame it isn't an Olympic sport; Suarez would've grabbed a gold medal for sure (though Gareth Bale would've been a contender too)
ReplyDeleteArbee the world of foot-ball is what we are talking about here. If Mr Suarez was not being condemned then FIFA wouldn't have made any input in the whole diving controversy. Suarez wasn't actually punished by FIFA but the organization was forced to come out and condemn diving in the beautiful game.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lot of divers in the Epl yet I believe Suarez seems to get burned on this issue big time, while there is worse than him running around for sure.
ReplyDeleteThe part i never seem to understand is you never hear much about the cheating defenders who do everything and anything to stop players legal or not.
Suarez has surely been one of the biggest victims there but nothing is ever said.
Differecne is at the game you dont have a replay so you go with the flow. To be honest when your at the match, if an oposition player breezes past your player and hits him with a hair off his arm, your always off your seat going mad, thats just the match though and thats one part that i love. Some times at the game if your in the lower part of say the kop in 104 and your attackin the anfield road, you cant see shit, its like 2d tv, how many times have i celebrated what i thought was a goal, loads, so no way i can see any cheating going on unless its a full blown kung fu pile driving back snapper!!!!
ReplyDeleteway to stand your ground Jamie. I hate people who have useless blind loyalties to the point of being ridiculous. Anybody with a t.v set saw the instant replay where Suarez went down with out even being touched by any defenders at all. As a Liverpool fan I find that kind of behavior hard to defend at all. Want the team to go to the top but not at the expense of damaging the reputation we are trying to develop under Brendan Rodgers as a team that plays attractive football. This type of behavior will never happen on Barca or Real Madrid. This shows the difference in mentality.
ReplyDelete"Making a mountain out of a molehill...!!!"
ReplyDeleteSome would say that is the pot calling the kettle black Jaimie.
Yes he dives, but I would say not as much as is being made out.
He is definately over-theatrical, but maybe that's because he feels he needs to be to to highlight the fact that he has been fouled, which he is often, because so many legit decisions are not given.
I don't remember there being this kind of diving discussion last season and I don't see much difference in his play this season.
There is currently a band-wagon rolling through town to "Suarez-is-the-worst-human-being-alive-ville" and there are a lot of people on it.
Hopefully most LFC fans aren't. That doesn't mean we condone the act of diving, but maybe, just maybe, we should let up a bit on a player that has the mentality that he wants to win.
Didn't Sterling also dive during the Reading game, I watched it and the replays and it looked very close to a dive to me... So where is the consistency and vitriolic hate for Sterling?
No one is worse/better than (or more prolific than) Suarez at diving in the league, certainly not for sure.
ReplyDeleteThough I agree on your sentiments on defenders.
So every single CB in the world needs to be punished for holding attacking players during corners and free-kicks?
ReplyDeleteLets say with oh... maybe a 3 match ban? What do you think?
Or maybe it's just a "not very sporting part of today's game".
Doesn't mean that the majority of us agree with it. It just means A LOT of players do it and we don't seem to single them out and continue to write about them because everyone else is.
We're all entitled to our opinions. Mine personally is that cheating should be punished with retrospective action if it isn't picked up by the referee (just like we already have)
for any and all players caught.
I would like to think that having a bit of a larger perspective on the issue (ie realising that it's not just one player doing it) is what stops me climbing up a tower and shouting to world everyday that Mr X or Mr Y is a cheat.
Can we please see a few posts about Skretl and Agger cheating by holding players?
ReplyDeleteThis I tyhink would add credibility to your statement - "I have a problem with cheating in football, not individuals, and I will continue hammering home that point as often as I can."
Oh, and maybe one on Sterlings dive too. Just to be consistent and all that ;)
'Holding attacking players' and diving while there's no foul are two different things. Holding can be done in a justified way (using shoulder, for example), while there's no such thing as justified cheating.
ReplyDeleteIt's not about singling Suarez out. It's about countering numerous efforts by some shameless supporters to make up excuses for his cheating just because he is a Liverpool player.
all pro footballers are guilty of cheating.
ReplyDeleteShow me the Sterling dive and I will write about it.
ReplyDeleteThere is no 'vitriolic hate' from me about Suarez. It's simple: he is a diver; diving is cheating; I hate cheating, especially from LFC players, so I highlight it, just like I have with Gerrard in the past.
The truth hurts, that's why fans can't handle it. Cheating transcends club bias; it's a major issue, and over the last 18 months, Suarez has been one of the worst and most prolific divers in the Premier League.
Just because other players do it means nothing; every time he cheats, Suarez is (IMO) sullying the name and reputation of LFC, and I don't like that.
Seriously!! "This type of behaviour will never happen on Barca or Real Madrid".....!?!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever watched them play? Especially against each other!
I'm surprised some of them haven't been given Oscars for their theatrics.
100% correct. Consistency seems to be lacking
ReplyDeleteYou are just the latest in a long-line of fans who come up with tenuous excuses and diversionary tactics to divert attention away from the real issue.
ReplyDeleteEquating deliberate diving with jostling in the area is like comparing murder to slap in the face. They're totally different. Additionally, what you don't seem to acknowledge is that holding/jostling for space takes place on both sides, defender and attacker; it's hardly ever just one way, whereas diving is an individual, often pre-meditated act, with the sole intention of deceiving the referee to try and gain an advantage.
'I don't remember there being this kind of diving discussion last season.........'
ReplyDeleteWell the media were too busy with the Evra-Suarez debacle to focus as much on his theatrics as they are now, despite outbursts by the likes of Scharner, Ferguson, Wenger, journalists, Suarez's reacting to Fulham fans taunting, etc, on Suarez's theatrics last season. He got plenty of spotlight last season....for different reasons.
Let Sterling dive more a la Suarez and change Sterling's name to Sterlinho, than he'll get some spotlight.
I've highlighted Gerrard diving many times.
ReplyDeleteSeriously!! "This type of behaviour will never happen on Barca or Real Madrid".....!?!
ReplyDeleteHave you ever watched them play? Especially against each other!
I'm surprised some of them haven't been given Oscars for their theatrics.
I'm sure you can find the video if you wanted to just like you find suarez's dive in every game,you're criticizing suarez more than any manager in the PL and at lease pulis accusing him just for the covering up on those terrible foul commit by his players.I think you have an issues here with suarez or just bias.
ReplyDeleteYou're just a lap dog with a pee brain,can't blame you lol..
ReplyDeleteI sure the man is OBSESSES with him loll..
ReplyDeletesame here, or at least on one occasion in this thread.
ReplyDeletePlease admit it you're obsesses with suarez's,everyone who have a brain can tell by the focus of your many articles on the man's cheating,why didn't you write about those fouls on him?admit it you are obsesses with him and i'm not insulting you just saying the fact.
ReplyDeleteits supposed to be a lfc site not a anti suarez site
ReplyDeletenop,a very obsesses agenda.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they are two different things, they are both cheating to gain an unfair advantage.
ReplyDeleteI've never seen anyone able to hold someone else with their shoulder, I'd suggest what you mean by that is a challenge and not a hold.
I also think it is about singling Suarez out. I don't condone his actions but there are a lot of other players who do it every week and they don't have a FIFA representative making comments, indirectly, about them.
Why is no-one still screaming about retrospective punishment for Huth's blatant stamp? Because the media is too busy singling out Suarez.
If you read my other posts you'll see I don't agree with Suarez diving, I just think everyone is making waaaaayyy too much of it.
Regarding holding players: the 'legal' way to hold a player would be to block him with your shoulder - this is what I mean. Actually holding a player by using arms from behind should be, and is, a foul. Players just got used to it because referees have not been punishing that enough.
ReplyDeleteRegarding singling Suarez out: do you 'balance' media focusing on one player too much by not saying anything about him yourself? That is not the way to go. We should condemn cheating by any player, to let them know it's not acceptable. Whatever media is occupied with, is another matter. I can even understand them to some degree, as Suarez is now doing his antics in almost every game, and it is much more irritating than some other players diving here and there. But again, any cheating should be condemned, and any divers/cheaters should be disgraced openly.
Just like holding a player to stop him getting a header on goal is a pre-meditated act with the intention of cheating to stop a player scoring.
ReplyDeleteOr pushing a player, sometimes to the ground, to gain an advantage in trying to score. They are both pre-meditated acts of cheating.
The thing is I agree with you that diving is cheating and players shouldn't do it, but it's not the only form of cheating that goes on in every match.
Suarez does himself and LFC no favours, but neither does the constant singling out of him for criticism.
I'm not suggesting you should defend him and I'm not trying to divert attention away from it. I'm suggesting you should give the same attention to every other act of cheating to be balanced.
Fair enough, I don't doubt that and even sort of remember reading posts to that effect.
ReplyDeleteBut..... you don't equate Gerrard with being a cheat every time he gets mentioned in your posts
It's not the refs place to brand someone a cheat. The refs place is to call what they see at the best of their abilities! If you can see someone been judochoped on the head as a foul then you should not be a ref. As every player does exaggerate some fouls.
ReplyDeleteThis isn't the best footage, but the only piece I could find:
ReplyDeletehttp :// www. youtube. com/ watch?v=lmE1qEQ7PxM
2:10 - At the time watching this I thought Sterling went to ground in a very good position for a free-kick. When a replay was shown it looked as if he hadn't been touched. I'm pretty sure a foul wasn't given but I might be wrong on that.
I'd love to be corrected on this if you have a better piece of footage, but I think he fell over as soon as he knew the Reading player was close enough behind him.
But you appear to miss the point that every player, and I mean every player, cheats and in almost every game; by claiming fouls were dives and claiming throw-ins that they know weren't theirs, diving and pulling shirts in the penalty area, pinching, standing on feet etc. ad infinitum. So everybody is out there dragging the clubs name through the mud, if you're that touchy about it then I would suggest football is not for you.
ReplyDeleteI think what most people are tired of is that we know Suarez goes down easy sometimes, he dives sometimes, but the fact that he has become public enemy number one is a little unpalatable and it would be nice to move on.
Being as you love a good statistic Jamie you could see how often Suarez is fouled over the course of one season vs a selection of other forwards; how often he is awarded a foul vs a the same selection of other forwards; and finally how often he dives when untouched vs the other forwards. You could make an adjustment for minutes played and then prove your point that Suarez is one of, if not the worst, of all and we can all move on. Good idea?
I have Real a fem of your articles Jamie. You seem to elevate yourself as the moral Guardian of Liverpool...
ReplyDeleteAnyway I Think the Premier League Can forget about importing World class players such as Messi, Iniesta or Ronaldo.
Where were you when Ronaldo, Zola or Klinsmann was around?
JK, You are way out of line here. I spent my early childhood in Uruguay and my work takes me there sometimes. The word "negro" does not have the same meaning as the word "negro" in English, and it certainly does not have a racist connotation, even in argument. The logical conclusion to your argument is that, if the use of the word "negro" is racist, and it is OK to use it in Uruguay, then Uruguayans are racist. Look at but your line of argument is, well, racist.
ReplyDeleteJK, England is not the world. The English press is not the world press. No one other than the English press and its football lackey, the US press, thought that Suarez's handball in the World Cup was a heinous act. Even the Ghanaian players commended Suarez!
ReplyDeleteThe meaning of words in English are not the meaning that the rest of the world gives (negro, anyone?). The way the English like their football being played, is not necessarily the way others do it. In other parts of the world people think that chest stamping is worse than an exaggerated fall.
To frame your own cultural, social or sporting preferences or opinions (which you are entitled to have) in terms of morality and then condemn those who don't share your preferences or opinions smacks of intolerance.
i'd like to think that thrashing Suarez simply generates more visits to your site and that's why you do it. It would be worrisome if that was not the main reason why you constantly slate him.
Killing someone in an auto accident does not require either a murderous mind or insanity. It is a lot greyer than you show. That's why the murder analogy is preposterous.
ReplyDeleteI fully agree with you, if Suarez had married an 8-year old.
ReplyDeleteA sensible view!...there is hope after all.
ReplyDeleteIt's not a fact. It's an opinion. You yourself have said that in this same article. If you are going to go mental on someone, at least be consistent.
ReplyDeletehere we go again. Kanwar the Manu supporter bashing our players. Get off the bandwagon Kanwar.
ReplyDeleteMy friend, you obviously have never seen Barca or Real Madrid play. Dani Alves, Busquets, Di Maria, Pepe, Alexis Sanchez, Sergio Ramos anyone?
ReplyDeleteOK, now you've really outdid yourself. Diving=murder while holding and grabbing shirts=slap in the face.
ReplyDeleteI am actually quite enjoying myself.
I know who you are, Cecilia - you've been banned once before for abuse/sniping, so if you persist with sniping this time, you will be banned again.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, that is total nonsense.
ReplyDeleteWhether you grew up in Uruguay is irrelevant, and my line of argument is not racist in the slightest. If it is, then you, ironically, are calling Suarez racist, because that is the precise line of argument he used in defence statement to the FA during the Evra case.
The FA's report states:
"He [Suarez] says that he used the word “negro” in a way with which he was familiar
from his upbringing in Uruguay. In this sense, Mr Suarez claimed, it is used as a noun and
as a friendly form of address to people seen as black or brown-skinned (or even just blackhaired). Thus, it meant "Why, black?"
My point refers only to Suarez, not the entire Uruguayan nation, and as you can see, according to Suarez, he believes the use of the word 'negre' in a hostile environment is okay by virtue of his upbringing.
So please, get off your high horse already. Thanks.
Only someone who views the world in terrifying simplistic manner would deduce that my comparison was literal. It's the underlying principle that is the same; but you knew that already. You're just sniping. As usual.
ReplyDeleteEngland is not the world? When did this happen?! I'm shocked! Next you'll be telling me the world isn't flat.
ReplyDeleteAnyone with any concept of fair play and sportsmanship was revulsed by Suarez's handball in the world cup. Those who condone cheating and have no idea of the meaning of 'fair play' made excuses for it.
What happens in the rest of the world is irrelevant when it comes to footballers playing in the UK. Like anywhere else in the world, when in Rome etc - Any player who players in England has to abide by the rules/expectations of the country, and if they don't, they will be deservedly censured.
In Uruguay, use of the word negro may be acceptable, and that's fine. However, in Europe, it is not acceptable, and all that matters is how the word is perceived here, not halfway round the world.
And you're right, I am intolerant...of cheating, and I make no apology for that.
Everyone should be intolerant of cheating, but sadly, there are those that are wildly tolerant of it, which is why football is in the gutter.
How do we know that's true without analysing all the decisions against the likes of Rooney, Bale and all the other divers. Perhaps they don't get decisions either?
ReplyDeleteIt's impossible to tell from that footage, though I think I remember seeing a replay on match of the day that showed Sterling got clipped.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, as far as I remember, Sterling has never dived, and he doesn't appear to be the type of player who would. I've watched him dozens of times in LFC's youth teams and never seen him dive either.
Sometimes, you have to prioritise. What is more damaging to the image of the game: player holding, or theatrical diving?
ReplyDeleteDiving brings more shame on a club and a player than player-holding, which is why I focus on that.
You don't hear people saying: 'God, remember Lawrenson, he was a right player-holder in the box!'.
Well, you've got a point there. And Wayne Rooney (Well I do, anyway)
ReplyDeleteJamie,
ReplyDeleteYou are pulling a Romney. You have advanced the notion that using the term "negro" is an absolute wrong, no matter where it is said. You also suggested that if Uruguayans think cheating is OK, we the English don't have to accept it. Now, you seem to be saying that it is ok to do so in Uruguay, but not in England. Implicit in your statement is that Spanish should be allowed to be spoken in England so long as terminology in Spanish is modified to comply with English political correctness.
It is a mess. Shouldn't we simply get off our high horse and not impose our views on others on matters so subjective as this? There are some wrongs that transcend cultural boundaries. This is not one of them.
I mention Suarez lots of times in posts without raising his diving antics. It's only when I write something about diving specifically that I call him a cheat. The same applies to Gerrard. Examples:
ReplyDelete27 April 2008: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2008/04/rafa-slams-drogba-for-diving-but-steven.html
"As fantastic as the Milan game was, it was a phyrric victory in many ways. I can never take pleasure from blatant cheating, and that's what Gerrard did when he dived."
2 March 2009: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/02/steven-gerrard-still-shameless-diver.html
"That Gerrard is a diver with the mindset of a cheat is old news; the more disturbing issue is the disgraceful apathy of the fans over his cheating".
6 December 2009: http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2009/12/video-poll-did-steven-gerrard-dive.html
"It really pains me to highlight this, but Steven Gerrard's 500th game for Liverpool was marred by yet more play-acting from the club captain. Cheating is a cancer of the modern game, and it is our duty as fans to be truthful and fair, even when it comes to our own players"
Yes, I am obsessed with the eradication of cheating from the game. What a crime, eh?
ReplyDeleteJaimie,
ReplyDeleteYou are p... off the pot. I am a guy, not a girl. I do have a cousin named Cecilia who lives in Australia though. I have never been banned and there is really no reason to ban me, so I am not sure why you are being so belligerent.
Threading is only 5 deep at the moment. I'll see if I can extend that.
ReplyDeleteI've increased it to 10 levels of reply now so you should be able to reply to anyone.
ReplyDeleteI don't elevate myself to anything. I'm just a fan with an opinion, and my opinion is that cheating in football is morally wrong.
ReplyDeleteYou continue to illustrate a spectacular misunderstanding of my posts.
ReplyDelete* I have not 'advanced the notion that using the term negro is an absolute wrong' - you're twisting my words. Post the snippet from my comment where I state, hint or suggest that.
* I also did not suggest that Uruguayan's think cheating is okay. As I illustrated with the snippet from the FA report, I was referring to Suarez's view, and the context of the discussion clearly proves that.
Your interpretation of my comments is nonsense, but that's to be expected of someone who only comes here to snipe.
Jamie, I don't believe I am sniping. Rather I think you are. Your extreme analogies belie the weakness of your argument. If your argument had sufficient merit, you wouldn't have to resort to preposterous analogies or circular reasoning where you insert your conclusion in your premise or biased adjectives.
ReplyDeleteJaimie,
ReplyDeleteMy response was blocked. Just wanted to say that I am not Cecilia, although I have a cousin by that name in Australia.
I would also add that you should act like you preach, when you tell people that they should man up and handle opinions. I have been civil throughout. While I think your posts are generally insightful, when it comes to Suarez you are obsessive, hypocritical and possibly xenophobic. That's my opinion.
Well, your opinion is wrong.
ReplyDeleteI have highlighted cheating for years on this site, and the players who've been highlighted the most are Wayne Rooney and Steven Gerrard (as part of my 'Football Cheats' series, so the notion that I'm xenophobic is utter nonsense.
Additionally, during the Evra situation, I defended Suarez at greater length and in more detail than any other website/news provider on the planet, and that's a fact. Just click the 'Suarez/Evra' link at the top of the page and you will see that.
I was the one who investigated the FA Panel's links to Man United and Alex Ferguson, and I broke the story about the close links between one of the panel members and Alex Ferguson's son (a story later stolen by the Independent and The Guardian, both of whom eventually gave credit to the site after I complained.
I treat everyone the same, and I don't have favourites. If I was so against Suarez, I wouldn't have defended him during the Evra situaton.
OK, don't be paranoid. I don't come to snipe. You have me confused with someone else.
ReplyDeleteIt is pathetic that I have to excuse myself for expressing an opinion!
As to the snippet you were referring to, your website does not allow me to cut and paste. Just reread the last paragraph of your original response to Arabee.
Ok so LS dives I agree he does (Jamie just fell over) but and here is the thing if you where him and had just recieved Huths boots in your chest and watched him walk away scott free the chances are you would dive next time as well.Upto now I think I'm right in saying LS should have 5 penaltys given according to the refs union each game is taken on individual merit well thats a load of Ferguson.Referees as a whole stick together and they are united in their bias against LS.Before I get told I dont know what I'm on about how about a certain penalty decision that ended up in a yellow card for diving when the penalty was clear and simple, and please dont trot out the normal vitriolic response cheers.
ReplyDeleteLook, you are Cecilia Martinez, a poster who was banned last week. I know this for a fact. You know it, and I know, so let's stop pretending, shall we?
ReplyDeleteYou can express whatever opinion you like, as long it's within the comment policy.
You're probably right that refs are against Suarez, either consciously or subconsciously, but he brought that on himself. If he hadn't tried to deceive referees continuously over the last 18 months then they wouldn't be on their guard. It's human nature: the more you get fleeced, the more cautious and hardened you become.
ReplyDeleteYou did defend Suarez on certain points, but has since mentioned the Evra affair as further proof of Suarez's shady character.
ReplyDeleteYour position would be much more credible if you showed the same level of indignation about all other types of "cheating" (I put it in quotes because I don't believe it is cheating, but more like gamesmanship) such as goalie's timewasting, defenders pushing, shirt grabbing, kicking, nudging, elbowing, etc. Wasn't the German goalie cheating when he knew that Lampard's shot had gone in about a foot but still he continued play? I haven't heard anyone complain.
Your position would also be more credible if you limited your articles slating Suarez to one per event, as opposed to four, as has been the case lately.
As to xenophobia, why single out Suarez and not all those Anglo-Saxons or northern Europeans who have done the same, none less than Jackie Charlton in a world cup semifinal?
I agree with you - Suarez is an amazing player, and I love watching him (in between dives, of course)
ReplyDeleteIt is really inappropriate of you to post personal information you only have access to. We as posters have an expectation of privacy you have just violated.
ReplyDeleteI can see now why you would think I am that person on the basis of my personal email, but although the initials match, my name is different. You can believe whatever you want, but it is inappropriate to post personal information.
If you think my name is Cecilia, I have a surprise for you.
By the way, the f is the initial of my mother's maiden name. So please, Sherlock, stop misusing private information.
ReplyDeleteI agree entirely if he hadnt have gone down so easily half a dozen times he might not be getting the treatment he is but on the other hand he might the EPL refs are the most bias of all european officials (maybe because they have no-one to answer to) but its about time that they where held accountable for blatant game changing mistakes.
ReplyDeletePrivate? It's in your username, which you selected, and is publicly available on every one of your posts. Additionally, for your banned account, you used your facebook account to post, which states your name in public.
ReplyDeleteI haven't violated anything. With your previous account, you posted with your facebook account, which is public, and could be reached by anyone who clicked your username.
ReplyDeleteYes, refs definitely need to be held accountable for game-changing mistakes. More demotions would be a good start.
ReplyDeleteMy username does not spell out my name. I am not the person you banned so I don't give a damn whether that person posted their name on facebook or on their arses. I am not her.
ReplyDeleteIt is hard to stay within the rules of the site when you behave in such a crappy manner. Shame on you.
Do everyone a favour and get off your moral high horse Jamie. I am sick to death of people calling anyone who goes over a cheat, sometimes they are fouled, sometimes they can go over and its not a foul or a dive, football last time I looked is a contact sport. Is a defender a cheat if he grabs an attacker shirt, because that is against the rules of the game, and the defenders know it, but it happens a lot more often per game than people going down, yet the perpetrators aren't hounded. As for dozens of newspapers, sports TV shows, pundits, ex players etc, how many of them called Suarez a cheat before Alex Ferguson gobbed off, you and I both know that Ferguson was the first and the racism trial just made Suarez public enemy number 1, players from all the top teams in the premiership go over easy (Bale, Young, Welbeck, Mata, Ivanovic etc) but the media don't have it in for them, in the same way that John Terry hasn't been demonized for his racial abus., If you want to shout about cheating then go right through the game from front to back because attackers aren't the only ones cheating and diving isn't the only cheating going on.
ReplyDeleteFifa never came out and condemned diving, 1 Northern Irish delegate, came out and passed comment, there's a big difference between 1 delegate and a whole organisation. Secondly, Fifa will never condemn diving as too many FA's from other country's (European and South American to name a few) don't believe there is anything wrong with it.
ReplyDeleteYeah that's right Jamie, remember the media outcry when Neville handballed on the line in the derby a couple of years ago, no neither do I, how did he escape being branded a disgrace, yet again 1 rule for Suarez and another for everyone else. Also Jamie you are not intolerant of cheating only the certain aspects of it that allow you to beat Suarez with them. I have never seen as many articles of yours about shirt pulling, defenders conning referees by saying an attacker dived, these examples are cheating as well and the list could go on and on.
ReplyDeleteAgain Jamie it should be you getting off your high horse, you bang on about what's OK in Uruguay is not OK in England and to a point I agree, but lets not conveniently forget that the conversation was in Spanish. If someone spoke to you in English, using whatever the equivalent of the phrase "your sisters pussy" is, are you seriously expecting people to believe that you would not use any colloquialisms or variations of your local dialect when you replied in English, because I will admit that I would, as I would assume that the other person had a good knowledge of the language, and the use of the word negro as a term of affection is used by all Spanish speakers not just Uraguayans (by the way do you really believe that Evra managed to learn enough Spanish to hold a conversation, but never had to use the word negro, and so learn that it meant black and not nigger, as he admitted in his statement that he didn't know it meant black).
ReplyDeleteAgree? No, disagree!
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell are you on about, Suarez is doing his antics in almost every game, I can think of 3 instances this season, are you talking about the Sunderland game when O'Shea tripped him and Suarez was booked, or the Man U game when Evans stood on his foot, or the falling over episode against Stoke, as I have said before, football is a contact sport and people can go down without it being a foul or a dive.
ReplyDeleteP.S. the first 2 were fouls.
spot on jamie
ReplyDeleteI have yet to hear any Liverpool fan try to defend Suarez's actions against Stoke. The comments being made are not blind loyalty, they are about trying to get some perspective, and to try to state that Barca and Real don't dive means either you are a wind up or don't have a clue mate.
ReplyDeleteFor crying out loud, Arebee, Suarez is a diver and an awkwad one at that. As such, he is a cheat. Accept it and move on.
ReplyDeleteHas nothing to do with Suarez. Was simply replying to the thesis that someone might kill another person and it would, under certain circumstance, not been considered murder.
ReplyDeleteYes, that is actually true. I base my statement on hearsay and the little evidence I actually have seen myself as I don't want to analyse the actions of Rooney and Bale. Valencia recently got a, to say the least, very soft penalty against us. Guess we would all know it, if Rooney wouldn't get decisions as Ferguson would make much noise about it, right. Does Bale get the decisions. I really don't know. What I do know is that quite a few Spurs fans claim that he doesn't dive. He only loses his balance because he is so quick.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I don't normally disagree with you, but your interpretation of this quote is quite absurd to be honest. I completely agree with Nicol, he has psychological issues affecting his ability to put away chances, which inextricably links to confidence. I'm struggling to see how pulled diving from what he said. And yes, it is possible that he has psychological problems that make him dive, but Nicol was absolutely not referring to Suarez' diving in that quote. I also believe that the media do victimize Suarez. Before you say I condone cheating- I completely don't. However, it is as clear as day that the media victimize Suarez. As many have pointed out, if other players such as Bale take a dive and Suarez doesn't one particular week, the media will ignore it. However, if Suarez does, there will inevitably be an uproar. You claim that you pride yourself on offering a completely objective and fair perspective, however I don't believe you have done quite so regarding Suarez. Someone with your adopted or instinctive approach would believe that Suarez is unfairly treated by a partial and biased media- I'm not saying Suarez doesn't deserve the scathing treatment, I'm saying other players should get equally the same.
ReplyDeleteGood point. And how come no one ever mention the defenders who do make a foul on Suarez, claiming a yellow card for diving? That, in my opinion, is just as bad as going down to easy. Am i wrong Jamie K.? And you do have to agree that most of the media hunts any decision for/ against Suarez and make the most of it. Maybe we cant make him stop and keep the excellent player that he is. Maybe he needs that little devil inside to score the goals we need.
ReplyDeleteSorry for my norway english but hope you got my point.