After the recent transfer deadline day fiasco, Liverpool face the gruelling prospect of competing in four separate competitions with only one experienced striker. A similar situation arose under Rafa Benitez, and his solution was to fast-track French striker David N'gog into the first team, an decision that Liverpool legend Steve Nicol feels was a 'huge mistake'.
Earlier this week, Benitez claimed that it was 'strange' that he was not approached by the club to take over from Kenny Dalglish, and I'm sure many fans would agree with that.
Discussing Benitez's comments, Nicol - still a staunch Dalglish apologist - claimed it would've been the wrong decision to bring back the Spaniard, and made the controversial claim that Benitez ruined David N'Gog's career. He barked:
"There's one mistake he [Benitez] made that's huge for me. We've been criticising Brendan Roders because he's left the club with one striker, but Rafa did that first.
"He left Torres on his own, and he sold Keane and Crouch, and he tried to cover it up with N'gog, who he killed, because the guy wasn't ready for the first team.
"He's held N'gog back, and the guy has never recovered".
N'Gog made his debut for Liverpool at the age of 19, and went on to make 63 appearances for the club over the next three years. His time at Bolton has been blighted by injury, but does this have anything to do with Benitez playing him so often at such a young age?
There are obvious parallels with Michael Owen here, but I can't see how Benitez had any negative impact on the Frenchman. The reverse is probably true: N'Gog could've spent most of his time in the reserves, and rotting on the bench, but Benitez gave him regular chances to play, and I'm sure N'Gog is grateful for that. After all, what young player would've be happy with spending most of the time on the pitch?!
I don't see how Benitez has 'held back' N'Gog; isn't it more likely that he's just not as good as his potential suggested? Four goals in thirty-three appearances for Bolton certainly seems to back that up.
REMINDER: Any comment that denigrates Nicol, Benitez or KD in any way will be deleted. Persistent offenders will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
Earlier this week, Benitez claimed that it was 'strange' that he was not approached by the club to take over from Kenny Dalglish, and I'm sure many fans would agree with that.
Discussing Benitez's comments, Nicol - still a staunch Dalglish apologist - claimed it would've been the wrong decision to bring back the Spaniard, and made the controversial claim that Benitez ruined David N'Gog's career. He barked:
"There's one mistake he [Benitez] made that's huge for me. We've been criticising Brendan Roders because he's left the club with one striker, but Rafa did that first.
"He left Torres on his own, and he sold Keane and Crouch, and he tried to cover it up with N'gog, who he killed, because the guy wasn't ready for the first team.
"He's held N'gog back, and the guy has never recovered".
N'Gog made his debut for Liverpool at the age of 19, and went on to make 63 appearances for the club over the next three years. His time at Bolton has been blighted by injury, but does this have anything to do with Benitez playing him so often at such a young age?
There are obvious parallels with Michael Owen here, but I can't see how Benitez had any negative impact on the Frenchman. The reverse is probably true: N'Gog could've spent most of his time in the reserves, and rotting on the bench, but Benitez gave him regular chances to play, and I'm sure N'Gog is grateful for that. After all, what young player would've be happy with spending most of the time on the pitch?!
I don't see how Benitez has 'held back' N'Gog; isn't it more likely that he's just not as good as his potential suggested? Four goals in thirty-three appearances for Bolton certainly seems to back that up.
REMINDER: Any comment that denigrates Nicol, Benitez or KD in any way will be deleted. Persistent offenders will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
Nicol is becoming a little boring with all his commenting on what was and what he would rather have had. I am more interested in what is and what will be.....
ReplyDeletenobody could ever accuse you of being a Dalglish apologist.Why the snide remark?
ReplyDeleteJeez, you seriously need to.stop being so tightly wound. I made no snide remark; Nicol is, as a matter of fact, a Dalglish apologist. He even admitted it himself. Stop trying to make out that every comment about Dalglish is somehow a personal attack. If you can't handle discussion about KD then don't visit the site. Any further posts in the same vein will be deleted.
ReplyDeletengog plays badly because he was never very good. simple
ReplyDeleteDavid Ngog was awful end of. Nothing to do with Rafa. Since we got rid of Rafa we have gone backwards. Fact.
ReplyDeleteWell KD destroyed Meireles and maxi and kuyt. While hodgy almost destroyed agger. And BR is currently destroying
ReplyDeleteNgog is a championship quality player who was lucky to play for a club like Liverpool. Rafa didn't held him back but on the contrary it was because of him that he got so many opportunities otherwise he would have been playing in some other country in some poor league as he was just not good enough. If instead of Ngog, Pacheco had got those opportunities we might have had a decent backup striker.
ReplyDeleteJaimie.. Ur family is a bunch of stinking cunts.
ReplyDeleteIf you r any lesser cunt than your father then publish this comment.
u fukking dildo..
Atleast Nicole did'nt backed off from a failed bet.
ReplyDeleteYou lying twit. Go support Everton or Venky owned Rovers or somethin. U r a fukking disgrace to Liverpool FC.
There are far too many of our ex players who spout rubbish in the media and don't appear to have a clue.
ReplyDeletethis is not about KD but you. The term apologist is necessarily a critical remark. All you seem to do is to enjoy criticising our club , our players, our former managers and pitting fans against each other. If you cant see it as a snide remark then God help us
ReplyDeleteoh and I expect you will delete this message because you can dish it out but you are not man enough to take it
ReplyDeleteWhay difference does it make about ngog or any previous managers signings ,Stevie Nicol is entitled to his opinion after all he is a legend as is king kenny and rafa is still widely respected in liverpool .Everyone needs to focus on the present and get behind BR .JUSTICE AT LAST YNWA.
ReplyDeleteHe can talk shit all he likes. The fact is that under Benitez we were number one and feared around Europe. I'd give up a lot to c Liverpool become number one in Europe again. YNWA RAFA.
ReplyDeleteThe reason Rafa was left with Torres and ngog was because he was never given enough funds to bring in another world class striker ,where as crouch wanted to play every week ,but it was not possible because he was never able to compete with Torres and Keane was not Rafa's choice to start with and playing behind Torres he couldn't as there was sertain Mr Gerard ,who was exceptional in that role . Ngog was 1 mil and that was all we could afford at the time . I'm sick and tired of our old timers constantly blaming Rafa the very man who took us to the top with limited funds and support ,now we would need to spend close to 100 mil to even begin to compete and get amongst the big boys (money wise ) that is.times have moved on but the old boys have not and that is the truth and it hurts them to much to admit ,so they come up with all kinds of crap to discredit the legend that Rafa is. YNWA
ReplyDeleteWe were going backwards before Rafa left, it was under him that we went form 2nd to 7th in the league. How does that escape your assessment that we've only been going backwards since he left?
ReplyDeleteOh stop being such a whining martyr, it's not clever or funny.
ReplyDeletenot meant to be clever or funny just straight forward factual
ReplyDeleteU21 playing chelsea tonite on LFCTV live with Yesil making his debut.
ReplyDeleteLets all agree that this is our future
Rafa Banitez took Liverpool FC to great heights in terms of football. I am not discrediting Rogers but all I am saying is the Liverpool job is too big for him. A lot of people want to bring in Guordiola into the fold but let it be known that he had been a part of the Barcelorna establishment. The type of football that Mr Rogers want to introduce at Liverpool needs top quality players who are skillful and can adopt to it quickly. A proven manager is what is needed at Liverpool right now. Kenny Daglish had been out of the game for a longtime and the Liverpool fans have to move on from the era when Kenny used to be the best. Football has moved on, I do not blame the King for trying to bring us to our past glory but let it be known that he never wanted Torres to go. I respect what he was trying to do that was playing Torres with Suarez but the Spaniard wanted to leave which he did. I personally think the owners we have tried to splash the money to make us competative but the problem here are the ex players. They are just too mant ex Liverpool players who work in the media and all of them think they are experts. They got Rafa fired for finishing 7th but lets look at the facts here. Was he given the funds to compete? No !! Who did Rafa buy Mascherano now with Barcelorna, Alonso, Abeloa now with Real Madrid in Spain. The problem is Liverpool fans only look at the bad buys. Alex Fergurson has had some really bad buys Michael Carrick is the best example of someone already at Old Trafford, Erick Jemba Jemba just to name 2 players. What we need to know right now is that the owners we have do not have funds to compete and the earlier the sell to someone with money the better for us all.
ReplyDeleteYou are right "before Rafa left",there was goings on behind the scenes remember the 2 yanks appoached Klinsman for the managers post? Rafa brought us up to the next level but through that time he did make some strange decisions. We have certainly lost our way over the last 3 years I just hope we can get back to the level Rafa had us at,if not better.
ReplyDeleteCobblers.
ReplyDeleteif it wasnt for rafa we wouldnt have a fa cup and champions league trophy only reason we went backwards after finishing 2nd was.... we give our players the respect and we get it back alonso was commited to us wanted to follow in the foot steps of his farther, mascherano promised 1 more season then of to barca and we let him go, and we never replaced em with the same quality but future shows u that ex-players speak well of us cause the respect we given them example sahin coming to liverpool thanks to alonso speaking so highly of the club. so rafa had to do what he had to do.... with rogers dont be the supporters who wont give him a go, its not gonna happen over night, yeah we only got suarez and borini but if u saw the 1st 3 games we should of had a few points but we where unlucky cause we coukdnt finish... rogers is bringing the new style the new era and u can see there playing that style but his NOT KILLING US or GOING BACKWARDS. Y.N.W.A we will rain in europe again, its just a matter of time
ReplyDeletesuperb performance from U21 beating Chelsea 4 one.
ReplyDeleteDifficult to pick out a star.. My favourite Adorjan. In attitude reminds me of a young Alan Hansen.
Come on lets look at the positives
Whenever I see the headline "Reds Legend" and then a criticism of LFC, I automatically know it's the Kwande/Nicol roadshow.
ReplyDeleteI still have too look though. It's like a car crash.
more total sh#t from nicol. great player. but a man working in a mickey mouse job who thinks he knows more than he atually does.
ReplyDeletecrouch wanted to go and keane basically sadly probably cost us the league!!! we were in a great position to buy another top striker from spain!! but he was not backed at the biggest oppertunity in the last 20+ years to take a league title.
jk could we please do some stats on nicols high profile managerial career?? ;0)
That is retarded, what it has to do with him failing later in his carrier?
ReplyDeleteIf anything Rafa put his ass on the market.
Is Rafa to blame for shortcomings of El Zhar too ?
Crouch wanted to go because Rafa let him know that he was going to warm the bench. Alonso left because Rafa had Barry (WTF) lined up to replace him. Let Hyppia go when he still had plenty to offer and lets not even talk about Keane. Rafa just did not allow Keane any chance whatsoever.
ReplyDelete08/09 Rafa blew his only chance to win the EPL and that is why he ain't our manager anymore. He might be a very good tactician in Europe but when it comes to the EPL Rafa is lost.
Forgot to add that Ngog was rubbish. He was never going to make it at Anfield and we cashed in at the right time as he was just another player that was eating away at the wage bill and showed no value for it.
ReplyDeleteYr spot on mate. On everything.add the legend in M Taibi, Kleberson, Bellion. Only few I can think of.
ReplyDeleteAgreed - Ngog never had the potential of being great; slow and very weak on the ball, all he had going for him is he could finish if the ball was placed on a silver platter for him.
ReplyDeleteJust out of interest, who was John Aldridge's like-for-like back-up in the team that Nicol was so successful with? Or even Ian Rush's understudy?
ReplyDeleteHe got us to second. Won trophies and basically every year got us in champions league. If he had the money we have wasted the last few seasons we would of been a force.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the old saying, in sport you're only as good as your last result?
ReplyDeleteWell Benitez's last result was on that no other top manager could have survived, it was so poor it rendered finishing second the season before utterly irrelevant.
meireles was a frankie howard any 50 50 ball he shat his shorts .maxi to old to slow. dirk had a touch like a rapist . move on will you . why is br destroyin d a ???? kd was right to get rid
ReplyDeleteHe scored some great goals from difficult positions !
ReplyDeleteYes,just one season when he was forced into bad situations by the lousy owners!
ReplyDeleteWhere were the REDS in all his other seasons as manager???
And funnily he got rid of himself from liverpool by doing that. I wrote BR is destroying...........because he hasnt started to destroy anyone yet.
ReplyDeleteThese same trio (along with suarez) got us winning games 5-0, 3-0s and what did KD and his british kids do?
Yeah... Sebastian Veron also.
ReplyDeleteAs a serious journalist Jamie, do you ever leave your bedroom?
ReplyDeleteian callaghan was thrown in at a younger age than n'gog and that was in an era that, in my opinion, was far, far more harsh, in terms of playabillity (mud baths for pitches, frozen pitches, tackles from behind, routine physical violence, all of which was the norm and tolerated). he came through fine, so did tommy smith. if you are good enough you are old enough....sadly he wasn't anywhere near good enough.
ReplyDeleteI blame the owners both past and present for the current predicament we are in
ReplyDeleteIt's difficult to say whether Rafa was responsible for him or not. I have the impression of remembering Rafa say that he wanted to use him less but due to lack of strikers, he couldn't do otherwise. This could be partly Rafa's fault because he sold Crouch, who in his time at Liverpool, was a reliable back-up striker and very good target and assist man. If Rafa kept Crouch, I doubt that we would have spent 35ml on a similar player in Andy Carroll.
ReplyDeleteOne of the main problems with Rafa's and even Dalglish's signings was lack of consistency. You could see that players like Ngog, Voronin, Babel, Henderson, even Alonso (except his first and last year) had quality but lacked the psychological strength to perform every week. Judging by Rafa's comments on Voronin (he said that he was a very good player... if he put his mind into it), it seems like he was happy to let things magically fall into their place for his players rather than working with them to achieve it. Rafa was mostly criticised (including by his players such as Benayoun and Babel) for lack of man-management, which in my book, includes moral support.
Dalglish was praised for being good at man-management and his play-tactics were good. However, I feel like he supported his players too much and lacked some guile which would have been very useful when both dealing with the media and in dialling-in the players for every game. A sense of helplessness in our players was very prevalent last year and by empathising too much with his players, Dalglish lost sight of how to overcome this psychological barrier. It was a situation similar to when a parent loves and spoils his kids too much that he becomes apologetic for everything they do. Consequently he starts finding it difficult to get them back on track because the blame is absorbed by the manager, thus making the players not accountable for their failings on the pitch.
Brendan Rodgers said it clearly that a good manager is also a good psychologist and it seems to be one of his strong points as a manager. When one thinks about it, it could be one the main reasons why he has a good record of extracting the best out of youth players and launching their careers successfully. During his second reign at the club, initially Dalglish showed similar qualities and used Flanagan successfully. However, as the quality of play decreased, Dalglish seemed to lose his ability to get the best out of his players consistently and the form of young players such as Flanagan suffered terribly.
With this being said, the future looks bright under Rodgers. Despite Nicol's and my early criticism of Rafa, credit must be given for setting up a youth system which boasts promising players like Sterling, Suso, Morgan, Coady, Flanagan and Robinson among others. Robinson seems to be the most under-rated player of them all in my opinion because while he lacks certain flair and elegance, he is so calm under pressure, has good athletic prowess and does his job reliably and very efficiently. In many ways, he is the opposite of Ryan Babel.
Yeah, and how many times have they one the league you bunch of armchair experts?
ReplyDeleteWe nowhere near them now what's the use to compare our flops?
*won
ReplyDeleteNicole says Ngog's career was ruined based on putting him in high pressure situations before he had the confidence in himself. It is important for young players to be mentally tough enough before they take to the pitch especially for big teams with high expectations.
ReplyDeletePutting them in early often results in development being held back as they feel more and more pressure with every game whereas if introduced at the right time the opposite is often true. Only those who've not played pro football think 'the sooner more first team games are played, the better'
So whilst I don't agree 100% Nicole has a point. It's the reason young players like Pacheco take time to break through. I do worry about Suso, and hope he's mentally ready to fully express himself in front of tens of thousands.
Steve nicol is a major flop with this comment. Torres was banging in goals week in week out so he was a proven EPL goalscorer whereas Suarez has clearly shown that he has a deficit in front of goal that he needs to improve. How is giving a 21 year old first team action bad or his career. If he was a good striker he would be able to cope with the pressure and perform well at the top. He didnt and he was a flop, he's proving that at Bolton. At the moment borini is our ngog and he hasn't started very well. We were in a much better situation with rafa...end off.
ReplyDeleteStevie N, needs to find a job...i am tired of listening to his crap, i cant remember the last possitive comment from him about LFC. N'Gog was given his chance a a young age, as have MANY others, to name a few:- Owen, McManaman, Fowler all went onto have a GREAT footballing career. The fact is N'Gog was bought with potentional but sadly he never lived up to that potentional.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is, N'Gog was 19/20 when he made his debut. 99% of the time if a player is going to become world class or even make it at the highest level of the game (EPL) then they would be starting to make an impact at that age. He made some good contributions for us in his time, but his level was not Liverpool. Rafa signed him then sold him for a profit.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest with you, alan, I too can't find that snide remark.
ReplyDeleteSo did Houllier, and not many people are giving him any credit. Houllier actually had qualified for the CL when he left. A feat that Rafa didn't achieve in his first and in his last season. Before you come slagging me off, I too believe that the winners of the competition should have a chance to defend it, but he didn't qualify through our league placing.
ReplyDeleteYou are destroying my believe in man's intelligence.
ReplyDeleteIf I don't remember wrongly, it was Rafa who signed David Ngog. If it was not Rafa's problem, then who's responsibility?
ReplyDeleteWell, I am not Rafa's biggest fan to be honest, but I have to defend him here. He gave Keane quite a few chances, which he didn't take. Keane was busy waving at the cameras to show his mum that he was on telly now, or so it seemed to me. Keane seemed to be overawed by having to play for us.
ReplyDeleteJohn Durnin
ReplyDeleteWe were number 1 for how long in europe?
ReplyDeleteAgreed!
ReplyDeleteTo say a person is a supporter of an individual is very different to calling him an apologist.
ReplyDeleteThe very word suggests that the support is absolute and blind to any faults loyalty without questioning.
Oswald Moseley was an apologist for Hitler
To call somebody an apologist, is therefore a word akin to personal abuse
Interesting justification, but I disagree. Dalglish has many apologists, mostly his ex-players in the media like Nicol, Hansen, Lawro et all, all of whom repeatedly refused to be critical of him last season, even when it was warranted. To this day, Nicol is still making excuses for KD's reign, and refuses to countenance any kind of criticism. He was even challenged live on the air recently the ESPN panel for his blind faith in Dalglish, and he basically admitted it was true.
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't really like your comparison with Hitler.
ReplyDeleteHow do you call someone who is defending each and every action another person did. That is going well beyond support, isn't it?
I agree with you that there is a massive difference between a supporter and an apologist, that is why to use the word apologist is intended to be abusive
ReplyDeleteI did not see the programme so I am unable to confirm your interpretation
ReplyDeleteowen harvergraves? oh no i even forget how to spell his name, such invisible in manu team
ReplyDeletei like nicol, maybe he should have gone for the liverpool job!
ReplyDeleteFACT! lol
ReplyDeleteWe took our "big four" position for granted under Benitez. We assumed he had taken us as far as he could and a new manager (Hodgson gasp) would get us further. That is a proven lie. Benitez had us punching above our weight for years, with clever buys and little money, compared to others and to our team before he came. When he made mistakes in the transfer season, and we had no money to overturn them, our form did take a downturn and the yanks blamed him. Basically, he gave us great years and the one season when we really underperformed, we sack him? I find it really unfair. I can only imagine the players he would have bought if he had had the money Dalglish waste last year. Before, for every Aquilani there was an Alonso, for every Keane there was a Torres. Now for every Henderson there is a... Downing? Let me close my eyes and remember when I was happy, beating Real Madrid for fun... ahhh...
ReplyDeleteDavid N'gog is only used for substitudes.He cannot give big impact during with LFC team.not many goal that he score.Good idea if LFC never keep him.No point to keep uncertain performance player like N'gog.After this better LFC release out Joe Cole,Downing and Henderson and Doni.They only burden for clubs....passenger to complete the team witout big contribution.
ReplyDeleteagree fully... Nicol talks far too much. Benitez had no choice I believe but to play N'gog.
ReplyDeleteLFC should have given a second chance to Benitez. as to me. He manged to maintain remarakable progresses in the club even in that very difficult time. We also noted that the academy which BR is using young players from is the result of Rafa's positive effort. Had he been given the money, the chance Kenny was given he could have got has back to the Top Four and also compete for the title. I can not judge BR now it is too early. But Rafa has done well. it is clear that he was the very unfortunate person being in the club especially in that difficult time!
ReplyDeleteits true all the ex-players are sick over kd and it is starting to bug me how their quick to slam the new players and still back downing or say carroll could have been good.
ReplyDeletewe had the best team in the league in 09 and we didnt win. rafa wasted plenty of money that could have been saved up for better guys. ngog,nunez,and about 50 kids at a cost of about 25mil wasted. 2nd i 09 because rafa was too negative. get over it hes gone and hes never coming back and he also totally messed up with alonso and keane.
ReplyDeleteRafa had to buy to sell for profit to then buy better.Ngog was an example of that.
ReplyDelete