5 Sept 2012

FSG: Total LFC gross/net transfer spend (2010-2012). Good or bad?

Liverpool are in crisis! Brendan Rodgers has been hung out to dry by FSG! Henry and Werner are 'the new Hicks and Gillett!'. These are just some of the ridiculous headlines floating about at the moment as the anti-FSG media campaign kicks into full gear. Such overwrought knee-jerkism is to be expected from the media, but it's disappointing to see brainwashed Liverpool fans and websites also jumping on the anti-FSG bandwagon.

Much of the vitriol aimed at Liverpool's owners stems from an alleged failure to make transfer funds available to Brendan Rodgers. That may have been the case in one isolated incident on transfer deadline day, but taking an overview of FSG's spending since arrival, there is absolutely no basis upon which to criticise the group's transfer outlay.

FSG set out an unambiguously clear approach to transfers right at the start of their tenure:

"We’ve always spent money we’ve generated rather than deficit-spending and that will be the case in Liverpool, it’s up to us to generate enough revenue to be successful over the long term. We have not and will not deviate from that"

In the group's recent open letter to fans, the same principles were reiterated once again:

"We must comply with Financial Fair Play guidelines that ensure spending is tied to income. We have been successful in improving the commercial side of the club and the monies generated going forward will give us greater spending power in the coming years.

"Spending is not merely about buying talent. Our ambitions do not lie in cementing a mid-table place with expensive, short-term quick fixes that will only contribute for a couple of years. We will invest to succeed, but we will not mortgage the future with risky spending.

"We will build and grow from within, buy prudently and cleverly and never again waste resources on inflated transfer fees and unrealistic wages. We have no fear of spending and competing with the very best but we will not overpay for players"


Fans should be applauding FSG's commitment to financial sustainability, not deriding it. As I've illustrated many times in the past:

* Liverpool have OUTSPENT both Man United and Arsenal on transfers over the last 22 years,

* Despite this, United and Arsenal have won more trophies, specifically league titles, with Arsenal qualifying for the CL 15 years in a row.

* After 22 years of utterly wasteful transfer spending, are Liverpool any closer to winning the league? NO.

Should the club just continue to waste tens of millions of pounds every year on overpaid, underperforming dross? Should FSG jut follow the example set by David Moores, Tom Hicks, George Gillett, Rafa Benitez and Kenny Dalglish, or is it time for a long overdue change?

If fans want perennial failure in the league to continue then, by all means, keep parroting the media and attacking FSG. Fans with a little objectivity will acknowledge that financial, operational and philosophical change is needed at Anfield, and that is precisely what FSG and Brendan Rodgers are trying to achieve at the club.

Don't take my word for it though. Let's look at the facts! The table below represents a factual refutation of the ignorant claim that FSG have not made enough money available for transfers.

Transfer Spending under FSG: First Two Years in Charge

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KEY POINTS

* More money has been spent on transfers during FSG's 2-year tenure that at any comparable two-year point in the club's entire history.

* FSG have spent 18% more on transfers than H+G did in their first two years.

* FSG's £70.3 net spend is higher than any two-year net spend figure during Rafa Benitez's reign.

* FSG's average net spend per year figure is £35.1m; Rafa Benitez's highest two-year net spend average was £22.7m.

* FSG have already spent 52% of Rafa Benitez's 6-year £289m gross spend total. If they continued spending at this rate over the next 4 years, total gross spending will reach £453m. Is that sustainable?!

* In FSG's first year, gross transfer spending was 59% of turnover. Given the club's ridiculously high wage bill during that period (higher than both Man United and Arsenal), is this sustainable?!

The figures and the facts speak for themselves: Over a two-year period, FSG has spent more money on transfers than any other regime in the club's entire history.

Despite these persuasive facts, the media - and some LFC fans - would have us believe that one failed transfer on deadline day is proof that LFC's owners are cheapskates and do not have LFC's best interests at heart.

Granted, FSG made the mistake of unquestioningly trusting the judgment of Damien Comolli and Kenny Dalglish on transfers, but it's not the group's fault that Dalglish bought a series of massive flops; if they couldn't trust the experience and insight of one of the club's greatest servants, who could they trust?

FSG are definitely culpable for signing off on such huge transfer fees for the likes of Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing, and Henry acknowledged the group's mistakes in the recent open letter:

"We are still in the process of reversing the errors of previous regimes. It will not happen overnight. It has been compounded by our own mistakes in a difficult first two years of ownership. It has been a harsh education, but make no mistake, the club is healthier today than when we took over"

Financial sustainability is not an option; it is utterly imperative, especially in light of the last 22 years of financial negligence.

Yes, the club lost out on Clint Dempsey, but the refusal to sanction that deal is understandable when considered in the context of FSG's stated goals (and commitment to bringing through young players). As fans, we might not like it, and I personally disagree with the decision, but I can see the logic.

Additionally, Brendan Rodgers could've spent the £30m he's been given this summer on a striker, but he chose to buy midfielders. FSG trusted their manager again, and with young strikers in reserve and ready to make the step-up, things are not as bad as they seem.

Liverpool FC is in good hands, and given the figures highlighted above, the mindless demonisation of FSG by fans is (IMO) nothing short of a betrayal.

NOTE:

* UKSV accounts are not relevant here as these do not include ALL expenditure/salaries/Turnoved etc associated with LFC. Only the accounts for Liverpool Football Club And Athletics Grounds Ltd are relevant. Additionally, the turnover figures I've used here are confirmed by Deloitte, the football finance experts: --->>> Deloitte Figures

Jaimie Kanwar


168 comments:

  1. Spot on Jamie ....our fans need to realize there is not a bottomless pit of money and fiscal responsibility is needed or we will end up like Rangers.Whats funny is the players we have off loaded or are trying to offload are garbage ( thanks kenny and roy ) pity we didnt ship out cole one of the biggest blunders in our history or was that carroll or it may have been henderson or poulson or maybe keane hang on theres to many to mention

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  2. Nice one Jaimie... lets just hope for success on the pitch!

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  3. These figures are bollocks

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  4. Amazing that a club like Liverpool has to have a higher wage-level than Arse, Scum, TotnHm. Can it be that it is difficult to keep players and to get new players of quality as the project seems so impossible again and again? High wages are just another way of stopping the club from having opportunities in the transfer market.

    You can mention PSG, ManCity, Chelsea, maybe RealM., who pay high wages, but they have their suggar-daddy (or city) paying debt off. Hopefully this summers clearout - and next summers - will reduce the level of wages, so the club can get rid of the posh-boys' title from Rednapps time.

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  5. what a prick did u copy this from yesterday try doing your own work

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  6. FSG were not the owners of LFC in August 2010 so you should not include the spending of that month if you want to make a credible article!

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  7. A good read, more of the same please.

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  8. FSG will spend more on transfers, they have abundantly more sponsorship and tv revenue and i would like to see how much they have saved on the wages of people. if you believe the media, aqua, rodriguez and kuyt where all on mega wages.

    I agree that liverpool have blown money and FSG are not as bad as H&G, but what we have to all agree on is they are buisness men and will want to ensure that stake holders in FSG get their cut from thier investment.

    Ih ope they are in it for the long haul and for me a new stadium or investment in actual infrastructure is a testement to this. I can understand with some websites that are dubious as FSG have quickly signed a lot of sponsors paying vast sums over 5 yrs. If hypothetically they are only in it for 5yr, they could trim the wage bill right down, cull player spending, take all the sponsorship money for themselves and then sell the club for more than they got it after 5yrs of glorious money for which they than then push into their actual sporting love baseball. I dont think they will do this but stranger things have happened.

    I ask you this question; You had an idea on how to make liverpool great again and you knew you could do it by milking another sports franchise without a detriment to your initial investment of 300 million, whilst keeping investors happy would you do it? so why would'nt some one who loves base ball and a particualr club by investing in a succesful football club, a club they had nt even heared of!!!!

    Having faith in a buisness man and believing everyothing he says is just as bad as believing a politician, all they are doing is protecting their own arse as they want to make money.

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  9. You've got a point there, BUT you're missing the main two points:

    1. They have spended a massive amount of cash in their first year in charge, argubely to show they are willing to spend money, and then in the second the net spend was only 12.4m. Considering that pace, we would reach in 6 years to a 74 million net spend. I don't think that's ok.

    2. The anti-FSG thing is not about spending or not spending. It is about not giving the manager, and more important the club what they need. As you could see many supporters have actually applauded not signing Siggurdson for the cash he was asking, and not giving in to Fulham's price tag- that is until it turned out we missed out on a target for a couple of millions.
    Our problem is the inconsistent policy they are claiming to have. Moreover, you must remember that LFC have incomes of a few tens of millions solely from commercial revenue(thanks to Ian Iyre who have recieved a massive amount of unfair criticism IMO) that were not spent on players, while we have sold plenty of high wage players(which is blessed), but also didn't bring anyone else in with the finances that were freed by that.

    Personally I think FSG will become one of the most successful LFC owners of all time, but I definetly understand the criticism for the blatant mistakes they have been making.
    And there is a reason they are getting harsh criticism in Boston for their Red Sox management since their last championship.

    Another note- I think you've messed up some numbers. as far as I can tell, the Turnover minus the wagespend is supposed to be equal to the net spend(and the TO - NS = WS), or am I mistaken?

    It is a good article though and I appreciate the backing of the owners.

    p.s. It almost sounds like you're defending Rafa's transfer dealings. Are you sure you wrote this article Jaimie?

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  10. Good article!
    Cant verify everything you wrote, but in general you are right!
    I actually believe in FSG!
    And We all stand behind Brendan Rodgers!
    Against Arsenal he had our best 11 out on the field, made correct substitutes, have a good gameplan (he was let down by the players), we had best transfers (in and out) for years (besides final day), and we have cleared out many big earners.
    I call it a good work!

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  11. If their not keen on spending money. Maybe they should get lost then. Moores sold the club because he no longer thought he could achieve the finances possible to keep the club challenging. The club exists to win trophys. Not to struggle. I think criticising the club hierachy is correct for leaving the squad so threadbare. That if we were to suffer injuries to two critical players are screwed. Quite how you find that traitorous to fsg is laughable. Fanciful notions we should be giving yoof a chance is bordering on lunacy. For every great youth player another 20 may not make it. Using ffp rules is a pitiful way out for fsg. They should never have signed carroll downing n henderaon for money they did. Thosw signings are inflated by almost roughly 40 million in my humble opinion. The chairman is culpable along with comolli n kenny. Saying fsg shouldnt be criticised is sticking your head in the sand.

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  12. Agree completely with this, although the
    non signing of a striker was still a huge error of
    judgement. Great article though and I'd be very
    interested to see if you can compare our wage
    bill now against when fsg took over, which is the
    real problem!

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  13. Fsg bought in Oct 2010 ..... So the article is misleading, shock!

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  14. Can you do the same with the other out goings and put up how much money was taken out of the club by its owners over the same period be it by direct Pay shares pensions or payments in kind Rafa's Net Spend of £33m was off set by what he brought into the Club by qualifying for the CL year on Year bringing in more than he spent in extra revenue and TV money

    FSG bought the club below market value the club is debt free and the large sums normally used to service the debt no longer need to go that way we are told we have the largest shirt deal and the SC deal amongs all the other revenue streams were FSG are happy to take a pat on the back yet since they have taken over we have seen three managers in place and our worse finish in recent memory and the worst start to a season for 60 years at some point they have to be accountable for there ownership of this club it is only right that people are now asking what value they are adding to this club ?

    Rafa's overhaul of the youth set-up at the club, is benifiting the club now long after he has gone and without that input we would be in shit street

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  15. Good article Jamie! I also think that the criticism is harsh but I also can understand the disappointment of the fans. the club let go more than 10 players i brought in only 4 + yesil. ok it is good for our wage bill, but we definately needed 1 or even 2 attacking minded players that the owners refused to pay. 1-2 mln more to buy Dempsey is just ridiculous

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  16. Well it just goes to show that all us fans should start trusting FSG and give them time to get us back where we belong.

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  17. http://incomepart.com/ref.php?page=act/ref&invcod=143171

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  18. The principle of getting rid of the dead wood and lowering the wage bill is commendable as is the policy of buying young hungry players. The anger towards FSG I think is more about the blinkered approach to the above not the principle itself. Hard and fast rules cannot be applied when looking at the transfer of players, it needs a person to oversee the process and look at each transfer objectively. Unfortunately it seems that in the last transfer window FSG where concentrating on the Red Sox and 5000 miles away and Ian Ayre was caught with his pants down.

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  19. I agree that we are not in crisis, that much is very clear and i said as much earlier, i also agree that there are fans who are just jumping on said bandwagon and using THIS transfer window as a stick to beat the new owners with, comparing them with H & G is also clearly a wrong view also which again i said as much earlier.

    What i will say is that FSG themselves seem to have taken on two rather troubled sporting institutions where perhaps internal problems might well be the cause of them losing money and losing credibility, of course they must try to be prudent, and of course they must devise a sustainable financial long term plan where by the Club is operating within a sound financial base and structure, all of that i agree with and personally don't feel agrieved by.

    What i do feel agrieved by is the new set up in actual terms of the players and ex manager who has been hung out to dry by said new system, and its not hard to feel very agrieved by our apparent ineptitude to secure Dempsey or another even better striker replacement for Carroll, let alone the fact that i think he should still actually be at the Club....

    This is exactly why i want to know how much really would it have cost FSG to provide us with a little more strength in depth up front, AND secure the services of another striker...? Just for this season...? would it not have been wiser to do that than run the risk of not doing it and manager and owners end up looking somewhat foolish/shortsighted/stingy/arrogant you name it...

    I'd have happily taken Owen back if i was them, wouldn't have cost them much and very little risk involved, at least that would have helped us with our squad depth....as it stands we are looking quite light up front...

    Yes, they have a financial plan/model etc in place and they don't want to change that, but IF we do get problems injuries or just continue to struggle,period, then it is going to be VERY hard for anyone to defend them....even JK.

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  20. FSG's net spend in the first year was 36 million and this year the net spend was 18 million. That's an average of 27 million pounds. Take away from that the 10 million they saved on wages in the first year and the 23 million they will save this year, that leaves you with an average yearly spend of 10.5 million. We made a loss of 20 million at the end of last year because of H&G's failed stadium plans and the year just gone we should have made a profit of around 40 million, projected profit for this year should be around 70 million. These profit figures obviously include the saving on players' wages....so by the end of this season FSG should have made a profit of 46 million (90 - 54). So hopefully this money will be invested in players next Summer and maybe even a striker in January.

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  21. Sorry, but those figures are inaccurate. The figures in the table for the first year are from the club's accounts.

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  22. Good article, and the thrust - that we have over the last 20 years been very hit and miss in the transfer market - IS the root cause of LFC's problems. We have had the cash, just that it has not been spent wisely. I do feel though that not getting a replacement for AC was a BIG mistake - the kind that just should not happen at a well-run club. The silver lining is that we will get to see more of Morgan, Yesil and Ngoo and for one actually give youth a chance - if only we had held on to Tom Ince ...

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  23. Figures are does not add up. Where is the 50 m for Torres if we recoup only 48 m in year one

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  24. I've got no complaints about FSG reining in the spending for the window just gone, as they got very little for the money that was spent under KK. Though I think they should have squeezed a couple of million to get us the basic depth in the striker department. But definitely not a huge spend. They aren't like the City or Chelsea owners who throw large amounts of money at their issues. We aren't in that position, so its fair and sensible to take the approach FSG did in the window just gone in terms of the ordinary transfer budget they set. At the end of the day, there has to be a knock on effect from the mess spent under KK and that was window just gone was part of that and rightly so.

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  25. Ever heard of creative accounting? Your figures mean nothing, i support fsg, but jonathan is not far off. I only take figures from lfchistory.net a reputable site, and each fan should do their own maths....

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  26. Its probably that only a portion of the fee was paid in that accounting year. The accounts reveal that there are still outstanding fees to be collected for that year (contingent liabilities). so the remainder of the fee will show up in the accounts for 2011-12, which are not available until 2013.

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  27. i would like to se a chart showing players bought and how much for and then the resell chart.....probably scary reading apart from the occasional torress, mascherano & alonso sales....

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  28. Well done Jaimie!!!.............Bang on the money but we are still disappointed at the inactivity regarding a striker!, the figures are accurate and well researched as always. FSG have provided funds for sure but still need to communicate here in England with the fans more!!!

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  29. At that time, there was the sale of a fella named Babble for ~7m reported. IT doesn't seem to be included as well?

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  30. i also think the amount spent obtaining sahin for a year is too high, i think dempsey would of served more purpose and for longer...

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  31. How can year one player sales only be £48 million when we sold Fernando Torres alone for £50 million?

    Not to mention Ryan Babel, Raul Meireles, Paul Konchesky, Milan Jovanovic, Nabil El Zhar, Sotirios Kyrgiakos, Emiliano Insua, Christian Poulsen, David N'Gog, Phillip Degen.

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  32. Spend , spend spend ..FSG may be spending more but the outcome is still the same ,its about time LFC started to get VALUE in the market , the amount of money wasted on pure shite over the last 15 + years is staggering , you can put one or two down to bad luck but its signing after signing that just cant cut it ......WE ARE FUCKED if this continues !!!!

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  33. Great that you make those points, Jaimie. I didn't know it and still didn't think that FSG were all bad. Hopefully those who're calling for them to sell immediately will notice those figures, too.

    The gross spent should have been enough to get us at least into contention for fourth. Unfortunately much of it wasn't spent wisely at all. Thanks Damien, thanks Kenny. You've crippled us.

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  34. Year 2 gross spend can't be 41.9m. We bought:

    Joe Allen 15m
    Fabio Borini 10m
    Oussama Assaidi 2.5m
    Samed Yesil 1m

    That equals a gross spend of 28.5 million

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  35. So annoying is the fact that you don't include what Liverpool has sold!50 mil Torres and they still had transfer budget leftover in that window

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  36. Jaimie!!, Can you do similar on the commercial deals brought into LFC by FSG????, there have been many already but how much in total are they worth????.

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  37. I think that is the point FSG are making!!!!

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  38. For accounting purposes (Year runs July-July) Of the players you mention, only Torres, Babel and Konchesky were sold in the first financial year. The rest were sold in the 2011-12 financial. See my note about contingent liabilities above.

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  39. statistica can lie8:11 pm, September 05, 2012

    Good article but you are misrepresenting the truth somewhat with statistics - dann statistics that suit you - lets have a comparison with TOP 4

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  40. You are not considering accounting years. For LFC, the accounting year runs from 1 August to 31 July. That means only transfers that take place during that time period are included in accounts for that year.

    Gross spend for 2011-12 includes transfers that were done from 1 August 2011 onwards, not just Rodgers' summer spending.

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  41. I've already done comparisons with the top 4, and LFC have outspent them all over the last 20 years.

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  42. Also, you have to remember that the transfer fees reported by the media are in 95% cases incorrect, which is why collating transfer figures from the public domain and adding them up is not an accurate way to calculate transfer spending.

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  43. I'm pretty sure we received the full £50 million for Torres upfront. Nothing was reported about instalments, and we wouldn't have been able to buy Carroll with £35 million up front if we hadn't already received the Torres money upfront.

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  44. You know my views on this one already Jamie, but I will say it again FSG have given more than enough money.

    Up until the last day of the transfer window, people were raving about our summer deals. The Clint Dempsey thing has got way out of control imo

    There intentions seem good to me, and in terms of money, im overly happy.

    Transfer spending = very good
    New revenue = Extremely good
    Understanding of who to put in charge = Poor

    All they need to do to improve it imo is find a CEO type figure to run the transfer dealings better. As shown by a previous article you posted, spending the cash has never been a problem, just the area or rather players we spent it on.

    It fair to say KD gets a kicking for transfer, but I cant see why? The cost of a player is never down to the manager. AC at 10mil would have been a good signing, Henderson at 7mil etc. The players were ok, the prices were not! Cue DC! He was at fault imo

    This year, BR targeted again good players imo (we must remember we can`t get the top players until we hit CL). BR imo got the best players we could hope for given finishing 8th last year. What went wrong was Ian Ayre clearly isnt the man for doing the buisness side of transfers. (note he seems awesome at the commercial side, so put back into that role?).

    This leads me to think, yes FSG need to get up to speed quicker, and speak with BR about putting in place a good experienced person to deal with the business side of transfers. So we do not end up not replacing players again. That is there only fault imo.

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  45. Up until friday I was right with you. But to leave it that late and still fail for the sake of £2M is shocking and amatuerish. Success is won by making the right decisions at crucial moments. They made the wrong decision despite being well aware of how crucial it was to make the right one and we will suffer for it. People are laughing at us and it is their fault

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  46. Is nothing short of betrayal a bit rich coming from you who has slagged of players managers and anything that was not to your liking.Fsg should have let brendan rogers know were he stood before he let carrol go on loan

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  47. The key word is 'reported'. Babel's fee has not been confirmed by the club. For all we know, he might have gone for signficantly less than that.

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  48. Because they are buisness men, is the reason they wont do as you say. The last thing any buisness man wants is a bad rep. There good rep is what means people carry on doing buisness with them, you really think they want all these top company sponsors to never deal with them again, because they drainned the club after getting them in?

    More likely as buiness man they will do the opposite of what yopu said, and build the team up, yes cut wages, and streamline it, but build it, make it grow, which happens by winning stuff, then sell it. Thats where the profit is. The sale. To get max price it needs to be in the best shape it can be, which means sponsors who want to stay, massive fan bases, tropheys.

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  49. Damion not kenny done the deals but we do have a lot to thank kenny for maybe your to young to remenber that.Fsg appointed damian so maybe its them you should thank.

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  50. How can you be 'pretty sure' based on media reports? Just because nothing was reported about installments doesn't mean it didn't happen. The club is not brassic; it could've covered any shortfall in the knowledge that further cash would've been forthcoming.

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  51. Of which they made a loss of 49mil! not really lining there pockets are they. I`m guessing your cup is always half empty?

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  52. Jamie, stop modding my comments lol. I never post slander, and it bugs me having to wait lol

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  53. And what about all the players who under performed last season eh..??? What about how they were instrumental in our downfall as well....for sure if Suarez had netted some of the many sitters he had...and REINA alone cost us countless points....that in itself would have had us finishing a lot closer to the top 4, let alone also the fact that we hit the damn woodwork 30 times...

    It wasn't all down to just Commoli Kenny and his apparent shit signings....for sure there were other factors involved that have "crippled" us....whatever thats supposed to mean....so "crippled" that we can afford to send out Andy Carroll on loan even though we could do with him upfront...? Nah, not crippled at all, just going through a transition period....because we decided to completely change the previous regime, that was a decision the owners took, no one else made that decision for them, it was theirs and theirs alone....

    By bringing in BR we now have to adapt to what he wants or doesn't want more to the point.....

    As you might have gathered i don't like the idea of blaming Kenny for "crippling" the Club.....

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  54. I don't think we should just be looking at just wage bills, I believe Hodgson and co were paid 8.7m to bugger off, then there are other high expenditures involved in running the business as well. But let's look at the wage bills since this is what the article is about the Mancs t/o is almost double and the wage bill only 20% more and Arsenals t/o 1.5 times more t/o and a 15% less wage bill and as for Tottenham well 35% less and they still finished better off then us. We cannot compare Man City and Chelski in this is as they are way out of order and in real terms bankrupt. And don't don't forget the owners lent LFC 30 million as an interest free loan to run the business. These guys saved our skin and we should applaud them for trying to balance the books and get our finances sorted. The other interesting think was that Jamie Carragher, Steven Gerrard, Alberto Aquilani, Joe Cole, Maxi Rodriguez and Dirk Kuyt accounted for a whopping 25% of Liverpool’s total wage bill, well that's in the past now. We need these guys, they are not stupid they know that LFC NEED to be in the CL to make any money and grow the brand. It will not happen overnight but I believe they will do it and I also believe that they have the right Manger to take us forward.

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  55. We don,t have to wait to the summer jk says they will spend in jan.

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  56. Things are not always as they seem. Adding up transfer fees in the public domain doesn't work. I've attached an image from the accounts that shows the total money recouped from player sales from 1 August 2010 to 31 July 2011. The figure is 73.3m.

    You can try all you want but if you use transfer figures from the media, you will never get Hodgson and Dalglish's players sales to fit that 73.3m figure.

    These are the accounts though; they are legal documents, and it makes sense to trust the official figures over speculation.

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  57. rarely agree with you jamie but im with you on this one. we really needed allen and sahin we really needed to get rid of alot in wages thats been done. fsg havnt said their broke just wising up a bit. after last year we know they dont mind spending big in january if they have to. morgan,sterling,suso,assaidi,pacheco all young guys who can benefit right now. also i think BR may be forced to play gerrard up front. stevie just cant do it in this midfield it just wont work but could he play in the front 3 you bet he could shorter passes a good crosser and header and also the best finisher we have at the club. i really think him suarez and anyone of the forwards would be really good

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  58. Hey Zanatos - your comments are not being modded. It's the word filter; it's very sensitive, and sometimes harmless words/phrases trigger it. Happens to me too. There's some info on the left of the page about the comment policy, but rest assured. there's no reason to Moderate your comments (!)

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  59. Yep, the betrayal bit did seem to be a little rich coming from him... good point!

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  60. Good article Jamie, have hated reading all the comments from plastic Liverpool fans that think the only solution is an oil owner.

    Had hoped that we would bring in a replacement for AC, thought that adding Walcot would give us a pacy L+RW with Sterling. Prob too high wage demands thou.

    Saying that, i'm happy that the club is being run properly for once.

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  61. yes, financially we may now be in good hands for this season. but, that's not the crux. it's a q of buying the right players, whether old or young. something we have not recently been good at. v persie was apparantly overpriced? not now!

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  62. everyone is talking as though the signing of dempsey would be the panacia for everything..one swallow doesnt make a summer ...carroll is now at for 5-8 weeks at westham then you have matchfitness etc ...you just cant tell ....perhaps if B R shows some balls and plays borini with a remit to just score goals....we may improve

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  63. we are not talking twenty years this debate is about fsg,Brendan rogers said there was 19 first team squad training the other day now that is triming the wage bill.

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  64. you say theres little risk but if he gets injured while playing we will have to pay his wages while he is out ....dont be naive these pay as you play deals are more complex than you think Owen has a team of people working on the small print...hell get paid if hes on the bench in the squad etc etc

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  65. Figures are absolutely totally wrong for UKSV (Note NOT NESV!)

    Turnover Year One (Oct 2010 - July 2011) = £142m
    Wage bill Year One = £101.5m

    Impossible to say what UKSV spent on transfers in Year One as the LFC accounts run for the entire year and also include money spent towards the end of Hicks & Gillett reign.

    As per usual, Jaimie pretends he knows about accounts and gets it completely and utterly WRONG

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  66. Whats a plastic fan someone who has an opinion different to you,the idea of sites like this is debate.

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  67. Do not be critical for the sake of it.You got the message.Good article.

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  68. Just a reminder that we have come very close to winning the league in the last 20 years with a manager who won several other trophies including a champions league trophy, also not forgetting another champions league final where we outplayed the team who won.

    Also we will all have a lot more grey hairs before we achieve a league position equivalent to the worst ever achieved by said manager.

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  69. Just thought i would mention i think Brendan rogers will be a great manager the game against city is a taste of things to come.Ialso think overall fsg will be good for LFC YNWA

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  70. Great article, I think the owners have done the right thing, Dempsey would have been a risk, he was the main man in a small team and they played through him so I am nor sure he was the best option! Short term pain for long term gain. Here to hoping anyway!

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  71. I REALLY don't think Owen would have been hoping to come back to LFC for his own profit though...he doesn't even need to work...he has made enough money, but still feels he has something to give to the game.... it basically boils down to how you view him and how many goals assist''s he might have provided for us, the outlay on our side would have been a minimal one considering how much an experienced and decent striker would have cost.....

    Fact is we won't know now will we....so the whole debate is futile...if he has a good season with Stoke and we struggle... then i'll be personally very gutted that we didn't get him back...

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  72. who says they will own the club beyond the next 5 yrs??

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  73. also a buisnessman does not mind a bad rep as long as he makes money, any banker will tell you that!!!

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  74. I would love an analysis of LFC player wages going back 4-5 years. Very interesting when understanding fsg strategy. Please do more grunt work and post. Thank you. Love reading the numbers. Never Lie.

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  75. I'm in my forties, thanks. I know what Kenny did in the past, and I know what he did recently. Kenny picked the targets (poorly) and Damien negotiated the fees (even worse).

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  76. Arsenal fan in peace -
    Do not fall prey to the redtop media. They need you to think there is a crisis going on at Liverpool so they can sensationalise it. I admit things could be better for LFC at the moment, but there are lots of reasons to be optimistic - you have appointed a promising, young manager who plays football the right way. Your owners, despite all the negativity, are doing exactly the right thing. Things are changing at Liverpool.
    Bringing in strikers/wingers/keeper etc. is important, but the most important thing of all is to build a new stadium. Liverpool must move into the future and tap into that massive fanbase you have.
    Back your owners. Back your manager. If you finish 15th, back him and the team even more. There are years of bad decisions to be undone, the owners and manager must be given the time to do it.
    The best of luck to you for the season.

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  77. If i may be perfectly honest i have no problem with PSG's reigning in the spending a bit after what happened last summer when Kenny was giving a war chest. I am happy that the club is counting every penny and watching the expenditure. Last summer was painful for the owners to see so much money spent on players who were not indeed actually valued at near even half what the club was made to pay for them. The owners felt snookered due to their naivity and relative inexperience in foot-ball so that all is understandable. They are now determined to play more of an active part in the decision making process that involves bringing in new talent. FSG has really come a long way. It was even rumored that when FSG made money available for Stewart Downing to join Liverpool from Aston Villa , that the owners never actually saw him play and only purchased him based on a doctored youtube skills video produced by the player and people in his camp. You can say that experience is a cruel teacher and FSG has gotten some under their belt in foot-ball and are determined to stay on top of every aspect of the clubs dealings and finances. I have no qualms with the figures and stats presented about the owners total expenditure on the transfer market since taking over the reigns at Anfield. I have no reason to dispute the figures.

    My only beef is the new transfer policy. I feel that the club should not totally ignore older players simply they believe that they do not have a great resale value. What this means is that were Steven Gerrad not a Liverpool foot-baller the club could not buy him tomorrow. If he were let's say for the sake of argument playing for another team and he were to became available on the transfer market the club would not be making a move to purchase him because he is a player in his early 30's. I understand the policy from a business stand point ,but I think to return to full competitiveness sooner than later we will have to take one or to risks on older players. The experience brought in by players who have played at the highest level does something good for the collective whole. Other than this I have no real problem with FSG at the moment and i am greatful for what they have already done for the club.

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  78. You obviously didn't get my point or simply don't agree. The money spent should have been enough to assemble a competitive squad. When I say competitive I mean that we could at least challenge for fourth (at least) or even qualify for the CL. That would raise our income, we could buy better players and pay better wages. That did not happen. Now we are "crippled" because we have players like Downing, who cost a fortune, are on handsome wages and contribute very little. Those wages have to be paid as long as the contract runs, therefore can't be spent on better players on lower wages. Never thought someone would find my point so difficult to understand.

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  79. you forgot voronin, downing, konchesky...... got anymore to add?

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  80. No, i just didn't like you saying that Kenny "crippled" the Club...

    That's pure and utter Bullshit, mainly because the Club is not "crippled"....

    Get it now..???

    Jeez.

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  81. "If their not keen on spending money..." another liverpool fan completely misses the point.....Moores also knew that financing

    Liverpol fans, we, need to wake up a lot and start looking at things through different eyes than what we have been. We want FSG to spend spend spend, which they should and I believe will. But we only want that so we can achieve things today. Spend heavily now! Invest today, take a small loss today for a brighter tomorrow and blah blah blah cos we have this blind idea that if we splash the cash then we will make the top four, we will win the league we will do this and that.

    But the reality is that we won't. We don't have a roman abramovich who can just pile money in to the club and I personally would rather not have that. And therefore the risk vs reqard of investing heavily into a club that has developed the culture of not being mentally strong enough to consistently challenge the top4 is not worth it. FSG are going in a different direction TO GET TO THE SAME PLACE. And it's ignorant, arrogant and very un-liverpool like to bitch and moan the way we have been because we can't see past our own noses.

    I say again, rafa benitez gets a lot of grace from liverpool fans because of his tenure. But I say again that if you put aside the champions league win, the reality is that rafael benitez took two full seasons of building his squad and developing his mentality on the team until we challenged for the top 4. Two full seasons.....

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  82. You missed the name 'Roysten Hodgson' there pet.

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  83. Specifically, can you find out how much money we save from Ian Ayre buying all of his clothes from charity shops?

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  84. Jamie, I applaud you.
    I have never posted on your site and I can honestly say 95% of the time I disagree with your comments and dont feel it necessary to post in to say so, the other 5% of the time I'm ambivelent towards your articles so do not make a point of saying so. On this occasion you are spot on (quick take a photo). There are too many fans who are unrealistic about our immediate hopes (I'm hoping for top six finish in league and a trophy). FSG have no doubt made mistakes since taking over, but all have been well meaning I.e think permanent appointment of Dalglish, backing Dalglish in transfer market with too much money, announcing Dempsey capture before happened through NESN etc..
    Fans who say we missed out on Dempsey by only a couple million because of their stubbornness, maybe we did, or maybe we stuck to our guns and didn't pay more than we thought a 29 year old with only one outstanding league season in 6 and one year left on his contract was worth. Perhaps if they had stuck their ore in with Carroll, Downing, Adam, Henderson et al we wouldn't be in the position we are. We as fans would have been quick to say that extra £2m spent on Allen at a total of £17m would have been too much, let's be honest we all thought £15m was probably a bit much for a central midfielder when we had so many already.
    I was angered the other day by a work colleague, Leeds fan (we ty not to employ them generally) who said his mate (Liverpool fan) thinks Rodgers will be gone by Xmas and we should never have gone for him, he wasn't big enough so on and so forth. He was then quick to say he was realistic as he didn't think we'd win the league this year. I asked what he expected and I was told top 4. I rest my case. Nonsense. Chelsea, City, United, Arsenal, Spurs are all way ahead of us we must accept it. If we finish above Newcastle and Everton we will have had a good season. I think there are tough times ahead as a Liverpool fan. I expect things to at least be as bad but probably worse than we expect over the next 2/3 seasons. However, I really hope we keep faith in Rodgers and give him time to work it out. We have a great academy (thanks Rafa) which will come good in time but the only way we can take advantage of that hard work is if fans and media allow our manager who is relatively inexperienced (as are our owners) To learn their trade and utilise the culture and players that we are trying to implement. So far Allen looks a cracking signing despite some scepticism from me (mainly spending money on a central midfielder when we had many rather than why buy him as I didn't rate him), realistically it's too early to judge for Borin, I feel it may be sensible to consider him as a replacement for Kuyt I.e will provide many years of great service, give his all, score some important goals and perhaps do it a but quicker than Kuyt. He's not the natural goal scorer we were hoping for. Sterling has impressed, I'm excited Suso and Pacheco are in the Europa squad and I genuinely believe there are things to get excited about provided you are realistic.
    Please stick by the manager, the owners, take the criticism like water off a ducks back. We will come again but only if given the support of all fans. This club has been built on the faith and knowledge of us as fans and it pains me to see some (probably younger fans) not understand how long it took to build this reputation as the best. Please please please do not ruin it by believing the rubbish you read in the papers or on sky sports. Just have faith and accept these things take time. YNWA
    Dan

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  85. The single isolated incident had left us with the most threadbare forward line in the division and was an awful own goal politically speaking.

    A couple of suspensions / injuries and we will have an U18 attack.

    Also, who allowed Tom Ince to leave?

    He is exactly the type of talent we are supposed to be developing and selling on if necessary for a healthy sum. Ridiculous move.

    Hopefully the premier league clubs will vote to limit spending themselves soon. Only Chelsea and Man City will disagree.

    Football has been destroyed by this financial doping.

    Normal punters can't even afford to attend matches. Ticket prices in Germany are a fraction of the cost.

    But we do have a great "product"

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  86. But you cannot prove your point if these figures are wrong, only 48 mil from sales in the first year? torres 50 mil,mierelez? jovanavic? konchesky? Babel? and if as you say those figures arent avail until 2013,well thats fine but it still doesnt prove your point as im sure when those figures get added all totals would look very different. I dont know Where all that spending money came from either. With the amount of money we got from sales for the first season in charge,that would of funded quite a few of their purchases. Mostly all their purchases actually,well in that first year.

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  87. We finished 5th and 4th in his first two seasons, how is that taking 2 seasons to challenge?

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  88. Hi agree spending isn't the answer but neither is wasting 26m on Swansea players. Allen looks a good player but is he really worth 15m. Sounds over priced to me. Sorry the new Italian stricker at 11m looks expensive. Looks like still wasting money to me. Also those sale numbers appear to exclude th 50m for Torres Someone playing with the numbers. I have a lot more faith in Fsb than h&g but the team is miles away from top 4 never mind contenders which is where we need to be. To ask mr a Henry a question is 8th ok if we don't spend money is that the target?
    Jaw

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  89. Sorry but you seem to be missing the point, which is that the concern is not so much about the money but their seeming lack of understanding of the game over here.

    You forget that the men behind the fees and business side were their appointments! Commolli was THEIR man.

    KD chose the targets once in post but that was it, and some would argue that given just how much work he had to do to turn the club around he should have been given one more season to allow that team to gel and improve upon it but he was lumbered instead with the expectation of a top four finish by the owners. He disappoints them despite winning one cup and making another final, because they (and the fans) had unrealistic expectations, and so BR is brought in whereupon FSG promptly drop the top four finish and announce more realistic expectations. The side is significantly changed again under BR.

    All of this is their choice and right as owners but they cannot wash their hands and attempt a sleight of hand over this.

    Also given that they finally have their fresh start with BR who is also THEIR man .....if that is the case why spoil the ship for a halfpenny of tar by not spending £1million extra on a man that THEIR choice of manager has identified and when that manager has done everything they have so far asked of him?

    It makes NO sense and that is what is concerning fans.

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  90. And same to you mate .

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  91. Bankers can make numbers lie!

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  92. Dempsey or whoever. A striker who has the potential of getting over 15 goals this season was paramount. To not make money available for that was criminal.

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  93. Liverpool has terrible scouts and negotiators. That is the real problem. Why is it that other clubs both above and below us seem to buy talent for cheap or develop talented youngsters.

    By the way Raheem Sterling doesn't count as we bought him from QPR.

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  94. No matter what the fan's say, its now a case of like it or lump it, get on or get off....

    Not many fan's will want to get off....so we've been allowed our little rant and now it will be business as usual....job done!

    And BR....who WILL be backed regardless of how we do...is here to stay, whether we finish 8th or 18th he's definitely here to stay....

    Not sure how i feel about that tbh...

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  95. Jaimie, can you confirm something that is confusing me.

    The figures from the LFC accounts (regards transfers/wages/turnover) also covers nearly four months of the Hicks & Gillett regime.

    How can you separate spending/costs that they were involved in before FSG took over - as it is surely unfair to make an analysis based on things that happened before they arrived.

    What information have you used to work out who actually spent what during the financial period 2010/11 to be able to make an accurate statement on what FSG have done?

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  96. FSG are not spending there money they are spending the clubs money . and those facts are wrong . 1, FSG did,nt own us in august 2010 and 2, what happened to the 50 mil for torres.

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  97. Do you remenber were the club was when he came in are you another fan that forgets he took us to wembley twice and was in contention for cl til we lost agger lucas and had suarez out for 9 games.

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  98. You are right. Running a football club is just like running a business. It will not survive if always in the RED. Unless the money is from those undisclosed sources like many clubs in the China league. Liverpool failure is due to manager and players. Last season before Christmas, LFC is doing well, but what happened on the 2nd half..
    Liverpool way of playing is predictable. All the balls are passing to Gerald and Suraze. When lone striker is at the front, no other players are there to support.
    This year, you can see the same things but at least we saw young players are trying their best to have a trial at goal. it is good sign and believe Goals will come from the youngsters.
    So, stop back passing when many players are committed at the front. Stop just passing to Gerald and Suraze. The two players are tightly marked. They must help to create space for other players.

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  99. I wouldn't liken the new owners to H&G. FSG is more methodical in their approach and appears more involved in the club and over the long term, LFC will come out better. If it means taking 2 steps back to move 4 steps forward, then so be it.

    Cole seems to be a joke. Comes on as sub and had to be sub for injury.

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  100. So you would have liked us to have haggled over Allens
    fee & lost out again

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  101. Good article Jaimie.
    Good to see the truth about FSG in the open, they are not here for short time, they are here to make us successful again, and if means 2-3 years of not being able to compete, i will take that. we have waited 20 years for a league title, if it takes us 3-4 year more, it is fine as long after that we can be successful for a decades.

    really pleasing to see you write good stuff about the club / owners instead of lashing out.

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  102. Crackin` report Jamie, perhaps someone can now find out exactly.

    what section of the socalled fans are making these claims.

    My bet the dissident kopites are the main culprits.

    The sooner the club gets rid of these nomarks the better

    for LFC. & the 1000`s of genuine fans.

    God bless you & yours Jaime lad,never be afraid to tell
    it as it really is.

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  103. Thanks for that Dave,its going to be a long & painful
    journey but god willing we will get there.

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  104. Also would Dempsey have made any difference. The new

    way is not about individuals, but the whole squad working

    together, 2 of our best players players are also the most

    selfish.

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  105. Nice one Mike....100% in agreement. But reckon Stevie

    should definitely not be overused. I reckon him & Shelvey

    should share the load, as all out attacking midfields.

    This is the position Dempsey would have filled.

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  106. Great article, it's good to see there is support for these owners given the negative publicity from the likes of the BBC etc re: the Spirit of Shankly request. Although I don't think they've got it right all the time, I genuinely think FSG are trying to improve this club both on the pitch and financially.

    On a side note, I'm not sure LFCs failure to land these guys was about money - fulham didn't want to sell Dempsey to us for any reasonable price given their complaints, and Sturridge was not for sale because Di Matteo wanted competition for Torres. So apart from letting Carroll out on loan, the other mistake is we weren't flexible enough to scout new transfer targets striker wise. Wish we landed that martinez guy that Porto snapped up (the Colombian). Watch him - I predict he'll be a 20m striker in 2 years time.

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  107. Good post - i admire the way arsenal have managed their funds, built a new stadium, and steadily expanded the business. It's that kind of sustainable model that despite being a selling club, you are able to qualify for the CL every year. Shame u can't keep your players, but definitely a model for lfc to look to.

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  108. This was in response to the gunners fan comments above

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  109. no ones saying they have not spent money what we are saying if you sack a manager because they under achieve you have to give the new man money to put things right[imo kd did alright]not just a token amount which they have with rodgers the be all and end all is if you want success you have to spend and this last trasfer window was a shambols and you cannot blame benitez or kd for that its simple its rodgers or fsg who have to take the blame

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  110. Of course I do. He was great as our interim manager after Hodgson was sacked, but it should have stopped there. Two cup finals, well, not bad, but to justify his huge outlay on transfers it was imperative to reach CL qualification as that is where some money could have been recouped. Do you remember the Champions League?

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  111. Why should I discuss all the factors that you mention, when it is obvious that you would defend Kenny to the hilt anyway. Well, let's give it a try, eh. You mention Reina. Well, if he's not on form then drop him. Isn't that the job of the manager (same goes for Brendan, by the way). Suarez not scoring enough. Huh? Why not change something then. Didn't Kenny see that in the half season before?

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  112. How about "Year One", "Player Sales". Clown!

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  113. On the talksport website they've presented the biggest spenders (net!) of the last transfer window. We were tenth, in Europe. Not bad for owners who allegedly take money out of the club as some people claim.

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  114. Big deal. Some other site complained yesterday that we only registered 20 players in our 25 player Premier League squad (we are doomed) while ignoring that other clubs too only registered 20 (Chelsea for instance) and hardly any club put forward 25 names. A bit of perspective sometimes helps.

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  115. Borini scored 10 goals in 26 matches last season. He may be capable of scoring over 15 goals in 38, even if it doesn't look like that right now.

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  116. Gerard Houllier, too, came close to winning the league and he put us back on the European map. Unfortunately many fellow Reds are so obsessed with Rafa that they completely forget Ged, who didn't cause half as much trouble as Beni.

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  117. Cole seems to be joke, ??
    Joke hole, ???

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  118. Re Mod Note,,
    would calling some fans "Moronic" be okay.

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  119. Good post. Unfortunately it is not only the younger fans. Reading the comments on the Liverpool Echo you'll find after every defeat at least one person who claims that it was the worst performance in the 50+ years he or she has attended matches.

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  120. My gripe with FSG, is the public humiliation they bestowed upon the Manager and Club through their actions, or lack of.
    Considering they themselves declared on their own website, Dempsey had become a LFC player. Surely that was a declaration of intent.
    But certain posters here are intent on exonerating them whatever their actions.

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  121. Tom Ince was offered a contract extension, which he declined.

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  122. After paying way over the odds for the first player I wonder why Kenny didn't contact the owners and tell them that Comolli isn't doing a great job negotiating the fees.

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  123. I understand what u say but your missing the point and thats if we dont have a good team now the good young talent will get snapped up by teams competing in champions league...good chance sterling will have some big offers at the end of the season and u never know he might be away......basically our future has gone because we cannot compete now its as simple as that.

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  124. Why would you give the manager money that is not there? Why would you want to put debts on the club again?

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  125. Sotirios Kyrgiakos was released on a free transfer.

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  126. I almost feel dirty saying this but good article Jamie, totally agree with you that the criticism of FSG is unjust and that the clearing of average squad players on big wages needed to be done.

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  127. To be fair although Rogers might have wanted to keep Carroll without a replacement, if Carroll just doesn't fit Rogers system or style of play then it would have been a fruitless exercise to keep him as it would be at the detriment of the squad who are trying to learn a new system.

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  128. Dempsey has only scored 15 or more in ONE season of his Career, he was nowhere near a guarantee to do this again especially when fitting in to a new side.

    If we played Adam Morgan all season i believe he would score at least 15 goals.

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  129. not really half empty just jubious about any person that buys a club not wanting to make a profit and only wants to win trophies, back in the 70's this was the done thing by owners who predominently supported the club they own. Nowa days fans are called customers, however unlike customers who will change their brand depending on how good the product is, fans dont. Liverpool has a massive fan base and we have not won the league for 20yrs but we still pack anfield and turn over large amounts because of this fans base. For a buisness man what is the best type of buissnes. one where you customers are loyal, your selling a below standard product but are making massive profits. I hope peple are right and FSG are in it for the long haul, get the massive profits and put it straight into a new stadium. But as it stands, this season we are recieving large amounts of money from increased ticket prices, sponsorship, reduced transfer spending and wage structure. If at the end of the yr we do not either spend the money on new players of invest it into a new stadium, the answer will be clear.

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  130. ...as is clearly stated...he didn't get involved in the business side...that is what Commolli, Ayre etc. were/are for and also FSG themselves for heaven's sake... and this problem was endemic before KD got there... FSG are rightly now trying to put a halt to that but they are lurching from one extreme to the other.... it suggests a lack of understanding. The Dempsey fiasco has really highlighted this... and so the dance has finished, the lights have gone on and we suddenly realise they aren't quite as hot looking as we thought they were... doesn't mean a happy marriage can't eventually result but at the moment it isn't feeling as good as it did during the "slowie" five minutes ago!

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  131. Well, then he did something wrong. Given that Kenny put forward the players and Comolli negotiated the fees, Kenny should have reported that the fees were way to high, for heaven's sake.

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  132. The Dempsey situation would not have put the club in debt.... it was as Jason says a shambles... and it was also really shoddy of them... after having openly courted Dempsey, who stood by us until we left him in the lurch, they won't pay a relatively ridiculously small amount just to prove a point.... and so they behave very badly towards him, towards BR, and towards the club and fans.... I'd ask them to wake up and smell the coffee but as they've cut their nose off to spite their face it'd be difficult.

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  133. Borini certainly won't score 15 goals playing wide-right.

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  134. Im missing the point? Your second paragraph is a complete contradiction. Im fully in grasp of reality and see that the club faces its near future wallowing around for scraps mid table. We may get the odd europa outing. If you find that acceptable, fine. I don't. So don't call me ignorant and arrogant. Im not expexting massive outlays. Fans knew this window would be tight. Im annoyed at the way the club appears to be run right now. If you think its ran well your sadly mistaken.

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  135. The facts are our club does need some serious investment on the playing staff, the problems is that previous managers did not spend the money wisely enough on right players. B Rodgers needed £80 to bring in 7 players who would be needed to replace the 6 other players who were shipped out. And the players would have been class players with the potential to be world class players in future and sell on value and they would change the dimension of club. 1: I Munian Of A Bilbao should have been brought for £15-£18M to compete with Gerrard and Shelvey AM. 2: Jack Butland Of Birmingham for £3-£7M to offer Reina some serious competition for his place and to nip Reina's recent changers from regularly happening GK. 3: B Matuidi Of PSG should have been brought for £10-£12M to compete with Lucas DM.4: M Fernandez Of Besiktas should have been brought for £5-£7M to compete with Allen and Henderson CM. 5: T Walcott Of Arsenal should have been brought for £12-£14M to compete with Sterling RW/RWF. 6: D Capel Of SPorting Clube De Portugal for £10-£14M to compete with Downing. LW/LWF. 7: Soldado Of Valencia or Llorente Of A Bilbao, one of these strikers should have been brought for £18-£22m to compete with Borini and Suarez FD.These players were needed and are needed at club, they would be for now and future of club and hopefully for the long haul. These players would bring healthy quality competition to side and could/ would have got club back competing for top 4 position this season and with those players . Previous managers have wasted millions on wrong players but these seven players would all bring class quality competition to side/club. And our squad has lacked class and quality during last four seasons. Our club does not to be like chelsea, real Madrid, man city and spend £300-£500m on players in three seasons but in order to get back competing with them sides £80-£150m on the right players need to be spent in season and a half on the right players in right positions , the positions were lacking quality and competition within needed to be addressed as only position at club we have descent quality and cover for is right full back.

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  136. Yes, we didn't cover ourselves in glory regarding Dempsey. But do we cover ourselves in glory when dwelling on that one incident, point the finger for the rest of the season and start infighting?

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  137. Probably true, but will he play wide-right all season? Brendan may well try something different.

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  138. Their roles were clearly defined, and the business side of it wasn't what he got involved in. He identified his targets and the club then decided how much they were going to pay.... any manager if they are given the money will spend it.... apart from maybe Arsene Wenger.... that's part of what the whole commercial side of the club is for... to keep a eye on it.... you can't lump it all at KD's feet... now whether he was identifying the right targets is a whole other debate ...but it could be argued that the weight of the fees actually hindered the players. It is complete tosh to try and push the fees paid on to KD's shoulders, other faults perhaps but not that, that was down to FSG's own choices of staff and ultimately their own decisions. I'm not anti-FSG but I did find the open letter little more than an attempt at soft soaping the fans...it was Dove Bar PR.

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  139. As I have suspected, those who defend Kenny will do so to the hilt. Can't remember whom we first signed last summer, but I am convinced that the manager should have at least confronted Comolli after overpaying for the first player. Say it was Henderson, why not give Comolli a call and mention that 16 or 20m was over the top and that at that fee he (Kenny) wouldn't have bought him. It's not rocket science, is it.

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  140. FSG has made serious mistakes, dont let them blind you.

    1)Sackong Clarke. We all knew he was one of the best defensive coaches in the country.
    2)Letting go of Pep Segura.
    3)Not appointing a shrewd chairman a like Levy.

    In order to get the fans back on thier side, they must do the following:
    1) Hire Steve Bould. ASAP! Probably will take 5m
    2)Appoint a good Cheif Executive.
    3)Hire a good head scout. My choice would be Udines's, Palermo's or Newcastle's.
    4)Hire a DoF. Preferrably Rafa. As bad his playing style is, he is spanish and has an eye for talent.
    5)Replace Pep Segura. My choice, Crystal palace's or Bilbao's.
    6)Then build a team capable of winning the title. My buying choices wud be- Doumbia(20m/80k), Dzagoev(15k/80k), Walcott(free of 5m in Jan/100k), Ter Stegen (15m/50k), Zapata(6m/50k), Neil Taylor(8m/40k).
    +Extend Wilson's contract to assure cover for CB posistion. Gross spend: 69m/19.2m in wages per year.
    7) Regarding selling, Doni(free/35k), Reina(20m/120k), Carraghar(retire/60k), Spearing(3m/20k), Cole(free/90k), Carroll(18m/80k). Gross sale: 41m/19.4m
    8)Net spend: 43m transfer budget/14.2 m wage increase.

    Conclusion: FSG needs to spend 55m to get us back in challenging for the Title. We are not too far away.

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  141. And where is that money coming from given that we don't want our club to be saddled with debt?

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  142. Quite agree, but at the same time don't try and mug people off. The open letter was just that.
    I think some of the more extreme responses are completely unjustified... but there is a legitimate cause for concern and it is actually healthy to have it expressed or FSG would think that their actions, which you yourself admit were poor in this instance, were just dandy. They are still learning as they themselves admit, and the fans reaction (albeit let's hope kept in proportion) is a vital tool in that process.

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  143. Well we are getting large commercial revenues but this 80m is insane look at my comment below, we need to spend 50m and most of them are not even for players.

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  144. How am I defending KD to the hilt when I clearly state perhaps other faults can be put at his door? I am simply saying that you cannot put the inflated fees there, it was the role of others to deal with that side.

    In addition we have no idea of what went on and whether he did express any comment (it was Downing by the way) but given the ridiculous premium British players carry perhaps not. He would have been seen as criticising FSG's men... for getting him the targets...an odd situation indeed!

    That is why the commercial side need to be clued up enough to do appropriate deals... you can perhaps blame KD for virtually exclusively going for British players...though at the time it was widely praised as a policy by many... but the fees paid were down to FSG and their choices. KD played no part in that after the choice of player and so to say he wasted £100m or "crippled" the club, as many now do, some despite previously backing the British player policy adopted, is unfair at best...especially when the net spend was in actually half of that, but hey, let us not deal in reality eh?

    It seems rather than my defending him to the hilt you are desperate to do the man down...that's your choice, I prefer to look at what he achieved, accept mistakes were made and try to keep a balanced view of things....just like I'm trying to do now with FSG.

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  145. The thing is players coming to liverpool know that they arent going to win anything so they may aswell have a higher wage than a medal, simple as that.

    players going to united know they will be winning medals so if it means a pay cut but a cabinet full of medals and trophies then they would rather take that!

    I dont blame them.

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  146. they have spent f all

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  147. ...actually was it Henderson? Apologies if so.

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  148. No REPLY JAIME????

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  149. I do believe Allen is worth the 15m.
    As for Borini - I'm not convinced yet, but I'll give the guy a break for the next few months.

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  150. No need to reply; everything is in the table. I just put August as a heading instead of October by mistake.

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  151. Jan Kromkamp!!
    Nunez
    jimi traore
    andrea dossena
    josemi

    there is so many

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  152. There seems to be two issues regarding transfer window. First, the diagnosis of what we obviously needed: a goalscorer. Second, it is highly likely that Dempsey's agent saw LFC as being over a barrel with Carroll already loaned to West Ham. That's two issues. Planning regarding ensuring we had a striker (and a goalscoring midfielder I would think) and, secondly, doing good 'business' during the transfer window. It's really unfortunate that Borini hasn't started effectively as plugging the gap around goalscoring. Allen is superb but not a goalscorer. So why we couldn't ensure we had other options than Dempsey is a real surprise (if he/his agent was trying to inflate wages. That is where FSG's principles kick in). I also think it is a bit rich that it has been suggested that Brendan have faith in Carroll when he wasn't played during Suarez's suspension - that should have been his critical period of having a sustained run in the team. Pre-season showed that however much he wanted it he is not the type of player that can have an impact without others helping him (Suarez simply can't play with him, as a percentage player he is always going to frustrate himself anyway: 25 goals or so, but losing possession 70% of the time) and the new system is clearly designed for more fluid forwards/midfielders like Barcelona.

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  153. Let's give FSG a break or at least a chance to show what they can do. It is obvious they are trying to reduce the wages at the club to bring us into line with other well run clubs, possibly to 50 % or less of the turnover. At 73% the current wages to turnover ratio is ridiculous. If they are successful then guess what? That's an extra 23% of the turnover available for transfers or GBP24m and that's without factoring in the extra revenue brought around from new sponsorship which should take turnover to well over GBP200m.

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  154. To your reply about debts, until our club get back challenging in top four year in year out and get back into champions league again we will struggle. If club is successful within fa cup, Europa cup and get top 4 position this season then club can get back into reckoning and keep club balanced. Do you think PSG , bayern Munich, real Madrid got back competing to their levels without spending serious millions even zenit st Petersburg are now spending millions to get back to being dominant again. In our day Bd age if you don't spend there is no success, simples. Arsene wenger is only great manager who has been able to keep his team punching above their weight . But every year the lose their best players and have not won a trophy in seven years.

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  155. it was there moneyball plan to get these players remember it was worked out that they would be based on stats not performance well i think that worked out well didnt it now the club is crippled until jan. at least fsg has saved some money but where are the players that they sought only suarez and jose left, when you take away wages from h+g era they are spending less than h+g i think they should either back the man they put in charge or sell up and get out lfc is one of the most successful teams and should not put their fans through this ie 4 managers in 3 years shafting us on deadline day anyone read red socks forum will know that these are not fit to run our great club

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  156. Can you compare players price this year to their price ten years ago?

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  157. torben picnic ( don't know how to spell it ) LOL
    Glenn Hysen

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  158. This article is beyond insulting to any rational minded Liverpool fan !!

    To call some fans 'brainwashed' and infer betrayal of their beloved club because they choose to ask some pertinent questions over the management and direction of the club is disparaging in the extreme.

    Lets look at a few FACTS shall we ??

    1. FSG have absolutely NO previous experience of running a football club.. and boy does it show !! 3 managers , a director of football and communications, along with a continious raft of changes troughout the stucture and personnel of the club leads me to believe that in the infamous words of monty python ' he's making it up as he goes along ' !!
    QUESTION .. WHO IS ADVISING FSG ON FOOTBALL RELATED MATTERS ??

    2. FSG have already admitted to making mistakes.. now kudos to anybody who can admit when they've erred , obvious and all as those mistakes may be.. But just how you expect people to have such blind faith in an experienceless mistaken ridden ownership is beyond me ?? 'Safe hands' you say ?? There is absolutely NO PROOF that LFC is in safe hands and to try to convince fans of it being so is one thing but to deride them for not believing this is plain insulting.. something I believe your quick to point out is not allowed on these boards.

    3. FSG are absentee landlords . Why after two years has no Liverpool based cheif executive been appointed to run the club in a proper manner.. Whilst FSG are based in Boston (bless their cotton little red sox) the lack of a senior board member this side of the atlantic shows exactly what FSG think of LFC.. i.e they have bigger portfolios (and trust me thats all we are to them) on their books to be attending to. Swanning in with you hot girlfriend in tandem for a couple of games a year does not demonstrate an ownership that is all about OUR club.

    4. It's been two years since they took over and still no decision has been made with regard to the stadium.. despite this being a condition of sale . They are still looking into it .. What exactly are they looking into FFS ?? they're are only two options .. refurbish or rebuild ?? Oh no wait option 3 Lets apply to Liverpool council to errect a 12,000 sq ft hospitality tent out the back ... You couldn't make it up !! They seem to me to be giving us the same two step as the previous American owners did.

    And I wont even start on the transfer deadline debacle which was amateur beyond belief to let your club record transfer out on loan without having lined up a replacement...

    So forgive me if I don't rush out and get an FSG tatoo anytime soon but I believe we as fans are right to question the direction of the club and the performance of the owners..

    And the day we stop doing so will be a REAL BETRAYAL of our great club.. Looks like your top of that que sir.. well done you

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  159. Hi simple answer is Adam Johnson. A bit of quality out wide with pace young and English. He cost £10m I see this as a player who would have made a bigger difference to Liverpool first 11. My view over last few years is to many squad players no better than what we already had. Should only buy a player if he is better than any players we have in that position. That's the mistake over the last decade. When you buy proven internationals like Suarez and Torres it works. Look at hazard might be out of our league but he is making a big impact at Chelsea.

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  160. PSG are funded by owners who don't care about money. If I remember it correctly they were bust a few years ago. That's what happens if you spend more than you have. Zenit are funded by Gazprom. Some years ago there were reports in credible newspapers that Real (and Barcelona, again, if I remember it correctly) had some of it's massive debt paid of by the government. Our of the clubs you mention there is only one that operates self-sustainable and that is Bayern Munich, who have a very large fan-base, a very large stadium, did shrewd business for decades and so on. They, too, don't spend money they don't have.

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  161. And complete stupidity of that spending proves why they have no business being involved in ANY decision... they ok'd the moronic spending of Dalglish but then put the brakes on 5m for Dempsey???... big deal.. they've spent buckets of money on garbage and hired guys that have done nothing but take us backwards... these clowns are clueless idiots with zero knowledge of the sport or what it takes to build a winning team in it... the fact that the lemmings still think these clowns are saviours proves how easily the sheep are led... so far EVERY decision they have made has been a poor one... hodgson.. disaster...dalgish.. idiotic... rodgers .. desperate and moronic.. these clowns should not be running a pub team much less one of the greatest clubs in the world..

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  162. there is no excuse for carroll tho but it was a panic buy 35 million fuckin ell he could of gt falcao man. we needed 2 buy a player in the prem last minite and it was him.its just coz all use liverpool fans are used 2 being a top 4 challanging on all fronts but its time 2 rebuild and as hard as it is 2 take its gonna take a few years

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  163. You are far off. Hodgson was a disaster!! Yes, he was, BUT IT WASEN`T FSG THAT HIRED HIM FOR GODS SAKE. THEY FIRED HIM.

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  164. As per usual JK talks more sense in one article than all the so-called journalists put together...

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