As a result of ongoing conflict at Fulham, Martin Jol has ordered Clint Dempsey to train with the youth team whilst his future is resolved. With only two full days of the transfer window remaining, it seems inevitable that the American will leave Craven Cottage, but where will he end up? Reds hero Steve Nicol managed Dempsey at New England Revolution, and he's once again urged his old club to stop pussy-footing around and sign the striker.
Discussing Dempsey's future on ESPN yesterday, Nicol could barely hide his frustration at Liverpool's ongoing failure to complete the transfer, and dismissed accusations that the American is not good enough to make it at a bigger club. He said:
"Dempsey has scored an average of 15-16 Premier League goals for the last three season; you don't do that unless you have quality, and the Premier League is the toughest league in the world in which to score goals.
"Liverpool are struggling for goals, so why would you not go out and get this guy!? He'd cost 10m or less, and I just don't understand why they're not going for him".
I totally agree with Nicol here: Dempsey is pure quality, and the various arguments against his signing are (arguably) baseless. Let's take a look at some of them:
1. "He's too old!" - Dempsey was 29 in March, which means he's in the prime of his career. Since when did simply being 29 make a player too old? In any event, Dempsey has averaged over 40 games a season for the last 5 years, which shows his excellent fitness record. Additionally, FSG sanctioned the signing of Craig Bellamy (albeit on a free), and he is three years older than Dempsey.
2. "He won't fit into Rodgers' philosophy!" - Based on what? This is unfounded assertion of the worst kind. There is no evidence to back this up, but there IS evidence to suggest that Dempsey WILL fit in, chief of which is his passing accuracy, which reached 82% last season. This is superior to Luis Suarez, Andy Carroll, and compares favourably with the likes of Steven Gerrard and the club's other attacking players.
3. "FSG won't pay the money for a 29 year old!" - There may be a kernel of truth to this, but it is not a fact. Also, Dempsey has an FSG ally in Tom Werner, who's publicly stated his admiration for the player. If Rodgers really wants Dempsey then I have no doubt that FSG will stump up the cash. The club's public statements on the issue of transfer funds are irrelevant; no one at LFC is going to publicly state that there is lots of money to spend as that would weaken the club's bargaining position.
4. "He'll have no resale value due to his age" - Nonsense. What if Dempsey comes in and scores 15-20 goals a season for three years? Would his value not, at the very least, be maintained? Surely players should be bought for what they can bring to the club in terms of end product? Focusing on eventual resale value is short-sighted - After all, a club like LFC buys players to improve the team and increase the chances of winning trophies/qualifying for the CL, right? The bottom line is this:
* 62 goals/assists in the last 3 seasons.
* Averages a goal or an assist every 1.6 games.
* Never injured, which means the club will get value for money.
* A born winner, with an excellent competitive spirit.
His end product is far superior to any of LFC's midfielders over the last three years, including Gerrard, Sahin, Kuyt, Lucas, Henderson, Downing, Adam, Allen etc. Dempsey also outscored both Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez last season, and he's not even a dedicated striker.
As Nicol says, why wouldn't the club want to sign Dempsey?
Jaimie Kanwar
Discussing Dempsey's future on ESPN yesterday, Nicol could barely hide his frustration at Liverpool's ongoing failure to complete the transfer, and dismissed accusations that the American is not good enough to make it at a bigger club. He said:
"Dempsey has scored an average of 15-16 Premier League goals for the last three season; you don't do that unless you have quality, and the Premier League is the toughest league in the world in which to score goals.
"Liverpool are struggling for goals, so why would you not go out and get this guy!? He'd cost 10m or less, and I just don't understand why they're not going for him".
I totally agree with Nicol here: Dempsey is pure quality, and the various arguments against his signing are (arguably) baseless. Let's take a look at some of them:
1. "He's too old!" - Dempsey was 29 in March, which means he's in the prime of his career. Since when did simply being 29 make a player too old? In any event, Dempsey has averaged over 40 games a season for the last 5 years, which shows his excellent fitness record. Additionally, FSG sanctioned the signing of Craig Bellamy (albeit on a free), and he is three years older than Dempsey.
2. "He won't fit into Rodgers' philosophy!" - Based on what? This is unfounded assertion of the worst kind. There is no evidence to back this up, but there IS evidence to suggest that Dempsey WILL fit in, chief of which is his passing accuracy, which reached 82% last season. This is superior to Luis Suarez, Andy Carroll, and compares favourably with the likes of Steven Gerrard and the club's other attacking players.
3. "FSG won't pay the money for a 29 year old!" - There may be a kernel of truth to this, but it is not a fact. Also, Dempsey has an FSG ally in Tom Werner, who's publicly stated his admiration for the player. If Rodgers really wants Dempsey then I have no doubt that FSG will stump up the cash. The club's public statements on the issue of transfer funds are irrelevant; no one at LFC is going to publicly state that there is lots of money to spend as that would weaken the club's bargaining position.
4. "He'll have no resale value due to his age" - Nonsense. What if Dempsey comes in and scores 15-20 goals a season for three years? Would his value not, at the very least, be maintained? Surely players should be bought for what they can bring to the club in terms of end product? Focusing on eventual resale value is short-sighted - After all, a club like LFC buys players to improve the team and increase the chances of winning trophies/qualifying for the CL, right? The bottom line is this:
* 62 goals/assists in the last 3 seasons.
* Averages a goal or an assist every 1.6 games.
* Never injured, which means the club will get value for money.
* A born winner, with an excellent competitive spirit.
His end product is far superior to any of LFC's midfielders over the last three years, including Gerrard, Sahin, Kuyt, Lucas, Henderson, Downing, Adam, Allen etc. Dempsey also outscored both Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez last season, and he's not even a dedicated striker.
As Nicol says, why wouldn't the club want to sign Dempsey?
Jaimie Kanwar
Also, if Dempsey was tapped up and assured of the transfer by Liverpool, we should feel morally obliged now to rescue him from this situation.
ReplyDeleteDoes Nicol have nothing better to do than complain? I don't understand why you guys constantly quote him on topics when clearly he is talking utter rubbish! He never has anything constructive to say! C'mon guys?
ReplyDeleteI say go for him, and I get the feeling we will. If he is anything up to about £9-£10 million I think that is worth it! But I think we may be able to get him for a bit cheaper.
ReplyDeleteHi jaimie, even if he scores 20 goals a season for the next three years his value will drop. Just look at Berbatov
ReplyDeleteYes, you're probably right, but I doubt he will have zero resale value. Bellamy went for 2m, LFC would probably get a fee for Dempsey. Who cares how much he goes for anyway if he scores goals regularly and helps the club get back into the Champions League? If he's a massive success, let him leave for free as a reward.
ReplyDeleteThat's an unfair comparison. As stated above "he's averaged 40 games a season over the last 5", whereas Sir Ballex hardly played Berbasloth. He would without a shadow of a doubt improve our goals tally over the coming seasons, his record speaks for itself.
ReplyDeleteThe club had done worse deals but if he can score the goals then they should grab him since the priority is to qualify for top four and use the time while he is around to rebuild a stronger team.
ReplyDeleteBerbasloth - haha. Love it :-)
ReplyDeleteHe'll earn his fee back in PR/shirt sales in the USA, and thats without the bags of goals he'll score or set up.
ReplyDeletemost telling of all of his attributes is his efficiency at getting the ball back. he rarely gives it away and when he does he fights very hard to get it back.
he can also play in a number of positions and inter change with the others.
he'll be a red by tomorrow night so the ginger whinger nicol can keep his carrot top on.
Great points, Rowan. I also believe that we'll sign Dempsey at the 11th hour.
ReplyDeleteGreat article BTW Mr Kanwar. Always enjoy your views (and most of the trolling!), whether or not I agree with them. Keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteYNWA
I think the facts are that BR has been told by FSG to trim the squad and the wage bill before making any more signings. It is this desperation that has other clubs bidding pennies for experienced players like Adam & Spearing. BR has been saying for the last week that he needs to sell before he can buy, it is very difficult to get the players he wants when FSG are enforcing this policy. All it will mean is shipping players out for less than they are worth in order to raise some funds, it is short sighted and bad economics from the money men running the club.
ReplyDeleteI just cannot understand why this is dragging on. Whether he was tapped-up or tapped-down go for him because Liverpool need his ability to convert good play into goals. Stop fiddling about trying to sign fancy dans - Dempsey has got what it takes and we need it badly!
ReplyDeleteThose 20 odd goals he scores will off set any resale value.
ReplyDeleteWTF? We want to win games and qualify for champions league football. surely the payoff from champions league football should off set any resale value.
A trophy will not go astray.
'Hero' is better. I'd still prefer some reference to 'anger management' or 'blood pressure', but 'hero' is a start.
ReplyDeleteBellamy went for free
ReplyDeleteExactly! I dont care how much he could sell for later, as long as he puts the ball in the back of the net!
ReplyDeleteThis getting embarassing Jamie, do you just wait for Press Pass on ESPN, hear what Steve Nicol says and that becomes news...
ReplyDeleteHe wasn't tapped up as you put it. Liverpool made one enquiry about him and deemed his price too much considering his age, and that was the end of the story as far as they were concerned. It has been the Daily Mail continuing the saga. and Martin Jol being an idiot.
ReplyDeleteBellamy went on a free.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake.
ReplyDeleteJust love how we are a business now and have to worry about resale value. Why oh why did we ever let any Americans in. The irony.
ReplyDelete(in tears) OMG! jaimie , did u see Kevin Mirallas yesterday ...i think the sensational ones come very cheap (relatively).
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think it would do for popularity of the club in the USA? I mean, we have Warrior sports paying big time cash. Don't you think it would do their brand MORE than 10mill worth of revenue selling Dempsy shirts? I mean, it seems to make sense from all angles. I am surprised they did not sign him before the USA tour!
ReplyDeleteYes, it's disappointing that LFC didn't go for him. That's Jelavic and Mirallas that Everton have got ahead of LFC now; Jelavic is already doing the business, and I'm sure Mirallas will too.
ReplyDeleteSign him. its that simple. Way I see it is we will sell Adam for around 4-5mil and Spearing for 3mil using this cash to buy Dempsey. Thats a 7-8mil bid. Which is about right. The wages will also be covered from selling both players, giving us some left over I imagine. When looked at like this its a smart move. Selling two players who we do not need and wont play to buy one who will, and is needed. If we Sell AC then that cash imo will be used for a striker. If we do not sell him I expect Dempsey to be the last inward deal for us this summer.
ReplyDeleteIf he is I would be happy, not a bad transformation of the squad in such a short space of time imo. Our mid looks amazing now.
If tho AC goes and we buy a decent new Striker I would be over the moon. Not saying AC isn`t good, but clearly BR doesn`t feel hes right for us for whatever reason. So getting a new good striker in instead seems to make so much sense.
Sign him up already!!!
ReplyDeleteShocking news!
ReplyDeleteQPR bought Esteban Granero
What do you reckon though? Would Mirallas or Jelavic have come to LFC for the same money as Everton spent on them?
ReplyDeleteIt used to be that players came to a club because of the prestige of playing for one of the big names - and with respect to Everton, we're a bigger name than them. Now though, other clubs think they can pull one over on us. This is predominantly because of how badly things were handled last season when we splashed the cash. But it's also because we've been seen to be a bit of a soft touch. Hopefully Brendan's new 'we've got shag-all money' stance will finally send out the right message. Christ, I love that man. I just love him so f***ing much, y'know? Christ...
Yes, it's depressing that we live in a world where Granero would rather play for the dregs of the Premier League that come to a world famous club like LFC.
ReplyDeleteNi, i dont think he will be good. for me, he falls into the adam, spearing, henod, downing category. Surely there are better players for 10m. Is Yilmaz still in his club or has he transferred?
ReplyDeleteDempsey signing for Liverpool is most definitely going to happen especially now there is a fee agreed of around £6/7million which is a bargain for a 29yr old in his last year of his contract.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, you boy Jordan Rhodes is signing for Blackburn for £8m!
Actually - Maybe not! Fulham has accepted a bid for Dempsey from Sunderland.
ReplyDeleteif this is the level of signings we are getting excited about it shows how little we expect of fsg rhodes would have been better alternative so we sign a yank because were owned by yanks and to appease there market lets just sign players on merit god dempsy should be a bench warmer at best for a club our size and how comes no other clubs have come in for him how many of his goals have been pens sunderland paid more for fletcher at 29 hes nearer the end of his carear than the prime of it please no
ReplyDeleteI think once again it has been proved that Liverpool's scouts are cowboys!
ReplyDeleteWe have never been able to pinch a good player out of blue. Stories drag on with a list of players and we end up with the sh*ttest of the lot like Downing and Cole!
Even Sahin loan deal cost liverpool £4 million of his wages. Liverpool badly needs to hire shrewd scouts and negotiator.
he cant sign for us if we dont officially make an offer, and if QPR are the only club in then what option does he have? i think people assume he is a great player just because he plays for madrid, i mean we have players play for our great club that probably wouldnt get in a lot of premier league teams.. i am pretty sure if he was as good as some people make out there would be more then QPR and Fenerbahce knocking on his door.
ReplyDeleteSimple question: Would Liverpool be stronger for signing Clint Dempsey????, I say absolutely yes!!!!
ReplyDeleteI agree totally our scouts are looking more and more like a joke, i think the scouts should look at what the fans are saying about players as it seems to me some fans know more about players then they do, if they cant do the job then get them out and get someone in who can
ReplyDeleteIf he expects us to come in for him which i am confident we will theres no way he is going to sign for them mate, he will wait
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% Jaimie and really hope we do sign him
ReplyDeleteI never said i don't want him, was just stating that his value will go down because of his age regardless of performance.
ReplyDeleteThank you Jason! Plus he'd only be Gerrard's backup in a 4-3-3 formation with Lucas/Sahin and Allen beeing guarateed a starting place...
ReplyDeleteFSG asked about him and NESN and the Daily Mail did the rest. It's not "how litle we expect of FSG" but rather "how litle we expect of LFC", if we start to sign 29 years old Fulham midfielders. I wouldn't put the blame on FSG: Although they said there would be no quick fix they already bought us Carroll, Suarez, Downing, Henderson, Adam, Enrique, Borini, Allen and Assaidi as well as paid Joe Cole's wages for years now... I would rather put the blame on the one responsible for spending silly money on some very average players. Had we got this money available now, with Walcott, Llorente and Sturidge all looking for a move, we would have done some pretty piece of business.
So trust Jonjo as SG's backup, save the £10M, get ridd of Adam (£5M) and go for a £15M winger to help Sterling or a striker to help Suarez!
YNWA!
This, is ALL that matters right now!
ReplyDeleteWhy do i get the feeling that BR has highlighted those players who have under performed in terms of only CHAD....His comments today seem to underline the fact that Carroll etc have a choice between playing football and picking up wages....
ReplyDeleteDempsey tbh is not someone im excited about us signing at all, yes he might be able to a job but i don't think Fulham will miss him that much, and thats saying something in itself...
Anyway, re this transfer window and our Club, im going to sit back and watch what happens from now until the window closes, i have a nasty feeling that we won't be bringing in another Keeper and certain other under performers will not be leaving (and im not talking about CHAD....) to put into simple terms IF the club isolate CHAD and allow Reina, Suarez, Enrique and 1 or 2 others in that CLIQUE to stay, in fact even build a team around them....then i will be totally sickened and disgusted knowing that Dalglish was shat on by these players YET they get rewarded......
Really, will be the final straw, was really looking forward to seeing wholesale changes at the Club but i've got a sneaky feeling that the wrong CLIQUE of players will go unpunished.....
Lets see what happens in ther next 30 odd hours....
The club do not see revenues from shirt sales unless they are purchased directly via LFC. Dempsey may increase our profile in the States, but it's highly unlikely to have any significant financial impact. As Jaimie and the above poster say, he should be bought for his attributes on the pitch.
ReplyDeletestriker but a good one but they cost money something fsg are very reluctant to spend
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteSign him! I have a strong feeling, liverpool will buy him!
Looks like Sami has sent us Samel Yasil from Byr Lvkusn, for £1mill. An 18Yo, voted player of the tournament at u19 or u18 European Championships. He is a Centre forward. According to Sky its almost done deal.
ReplyDeleteWow some guy said the other day your always quoting Steve nicol and he's spot on there. Hey may of been a good player for us in the 80's but for some reason he's always pissed off at Liverpool. Probably why you keep quoting him. As for the possible arguments against signing him is all bollocks created to fill column space. I know it's against the phillopshy of the club to buy someone above 25 but seeing as he's well looked upon by the management I don't see the point in being negative towards him.
ReplyDeletejaimie just like your opinion about lfc shops now selling justice for the 96 shirts for profit at nearly ten pound more than gerrard 8 it seems fsg will sink to no depths as long as there profit rolls in
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised everybody seems to think that signing Dempsey would automatically guarantee lots of goals. Steve Nicol's 'average' goals per season figure over the last 3 seasons isn't that useful in reflecting his record.
ReplyDeleteLast season he scored 23 goals, but the season before it was only 13 and the season before that he didn't get into double figures with only 9. Working backwards for the 3 years before that, he scored, 8, 6 and 1.
Looking at it that way, it's true to say his goal record has improved each year but considering the overall stats, it does seem that 23 goals last season was a bit of a freak result.
Additionally, the argument I hear for signing Dempsey is most often 'Suarez isn't a natural goalscorer, we need someone to put the ball in the net'. Well, even with his best season ever, Dempsey's got 23 goals from 46 appearances. By contrast, Suarez's scored 17 goals in 39 appearances so it's not a huge difference - especially if you factor in the disruption and fitness/sharpness lost during his ban and the fact that after last year Suarez now holds the premier league record for hitting the woodwork in one season (7 times).
Don't get me wrong, I agree that we need somebody who can deliver goals and that Suarez can't play up front on his own and be relied upon for 25 goals every year, but I'm looking at the stats and it seems to me that the argument for signing Dempsey is based purely on one good season.
Remember when Demba Ba was scoring for fun last year...and then there was that 6 month drought? Remember how Van der Vaart looked like the signing of the decade for a little while...until he went off the boil? Hell, remember how good Caroll looked in his half season at Newcastle...until we bought him!?
I'm just not convinced about Dempsey. If he can come and repeat last season's form at Anfield, I'll be delighted - I just think that's quite a big 'if' and people who think he is the guaranteed solution to our goalscoring problems may be in for a disappointment.
With Carroll looking like he will go to West Ham on loan and Berbatov to Fulham, me thinks Dempsey to Liverpool will happen. Because of his versatility and the effectiveness of it, I can see why Rodgers would be after him as he can slot into a interchanging attack and contribute goals as well as team play too. Might not be the creme de la creme of players but he is a good player and for where we are at the moment, he can do a good job for us in the short term at least.
ReplyDeleteJust a little grievance with your Demba Ba use. The lad was shifted out to the left wing in a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 after Cisse came in and that was around the time the drought started. Fair enough, he still should have scored a few goals at least in that drought period but when not scoring goals, he certainly was not playing the same role that he was playing when he was scoring goals for Newcastle. Bit of a difference playing wide and playing as the main striker, the dynamic is totally different, all in one season. So it wasn't a surprise that his goal ratio took a big hit when he moved out wide.
ReplyDeleteOn Carroll, I'm always wary with young English players due to the ridiculous hype they can get and Carroll got plenty of it.
With Dempsey, I have thought he was a good squad player at least for a top club for a quite long time, well before last season. Some seem to focus on that he hasn't had such a good goalscoring season like he did last season before, so automatically churn out the old one season criticism but he hasn't always played the main striker role before. He has had good seasons before where he has contributed to Fulham's success (for a club of their size, small squad and ambition) in the league and Europe (and they have been a success in that regard, to a certain extent), in attacking midfield positions, instead of the constant forward role he had last season. He has showed good form long before last season, but in a different position. I want him here because of the effectiveness of his versatility and how that could work into Rodger's interchanging of the attacking players, rather than the goalscoring he showed last season.
Some good points here, although I have to point out I wasn't saying that we shouldn't sign Dempsey - merely that we should not look to him as the solution to our inability to put the ball in the net. If we're buying him for his general play, fine: if we're buying him as a main striker, I think that's a risk.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of playing people out of position, it's interesting that Suarez's mega-goal scoring period in Holland came when he played on the left of a front three...
Nice one! ;)
ReplyDeleteYep, some players do show better goalscoring threat from wider positions, instead of as a proper central striker role. Like Ronaldo does better when coming in from wide positions, rather than playing as a orthodox central striker, as it helps makes his goalscoring threat harder to tie down. In general I agree but in relation to Suarez in PL, meh as I don't think the position is his problem as, for whatever reason, people get excited for what he does for Uruguay and he often plays in the main striker role for them. Its instead, for me, that he has big question marks to answer over his finishing ability in a league like PL, which is a different hunting ground to the Dutch league.
ReplyDeleteI am a bit dubious about Suarez' composure/finishing ability in a top league. Got the troublesome movement in and around the box with his dribbling and positions he picks up in the channels but not sure he will ever be prolific in PL, in relation to finishing. One thing doing it in the Dutch league and another doing it in PL. I think he is rather overrated due to his end product (lack of, more like), considering the pedestal he is put up on.
It's LFC who are idiots - as per usual. They should have signed him weeks and weeks ago - a guy who can score twenty goals. Are they going to get that from Adam, Downing, hopeless Henderson or ( sorry to say it ) well past his best Gerrard? Hope Dempsey scores winners against Liverpool this season - it will serve the silly buggers right.
ReplyDeleteWell, Granero hardly came out of the blue. My feeling is that Real wanted too much for him, which is probably the reason his old coach, Michael Laudrup, never went for him.
ReplyDeleteInzaghi screwed us over in a champs league final.....how old was he then?
ReplyDeleteclass is permanent form is temporary and i think mr dempsey has proved his class in the prem rather than his form ..last season which was very good......how many shirts will he sell in the usa?
.........................no brainer
Didn't Rodgers make it quite explicit? He said that he's aware of the names that we've been linked to (Dempsey in particular) but we won't be getting those players at the prices quoted. So it's financial, pure and simple. Rodgers has said over and over again that he's in charge of when the money gets spent and he's going to continue to look for good value players. Dempsey, at the price quoted, does not represent good value for Rodgers.
ReplyDeleteReally dont understand the resale arguement with Dempsey. Yeah we may not get the funds back that we paid for him but if he is hitting the net like he has been the last few years it could mean the difference between champions league or europa next season, add into that the revenue that would be raised from shirt sales, new fans across America Im sure that will more than pay for him being at Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure he would have come to us if we had bothered to make a bid.
ReplyDeleteWith Lucas out for 3 months it will give room for players like Sahin to be gradually introduced but I'm a bit worried about our defensive cover.
The media has linked us to Sturridge, Walcott, Llorente and Affelay besides Dempsey.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the chances non of these materalise?
So gerrard is past his best but they should have signed Dempsey weeks ago. Riiiight...
ReplyDeletei read some shit on this site. yakubu got the same goals in the prem as dempsy last year holt got 2 less with morrison up front with him. why dont we go after holt? or get an everton reject seen as though evertons scouts are so good (an jaimie our scouts new all about jelavic but the owners wouldnt give kenny the doe) dempsey was up front on his own practically all season an like that jammy carr said he takes the pens which he wont be at us. it was a 1 off he wont do it again all you lot will be on these sites next year saying get rid of dempsey like use were with adam throughing out all stats bet use were all slagging lucas off now your all licking his plums. liverpool need a decent finisher to play in the middle of suarez an borini. if we do get dempsey it'll be for the squad an to sit on the bench thats why they wont pay 10 mil an its taking so long
ReplyDeletethat was sarcasm about holt before you start
ReplyDelete