With the greatest respect to Brendan Rodgers, it's often hard to make sense of Liverpool's transfer business, and the recent Divock Origi deal is a case in point: why send the Belgian striker out on loan for a year when it's clear Liverpool need him for the upcoming season? Even with another top-class striker, the Reds still need another option, and LFC legend Steven Nicol believes that the decision to loan out 'exciting' Origi could turn out to be a mistake.
In a radio interview this week, Nicol admitted that he's a 'little worried' about Liverpool's striker situation, and suggested that the club should've kept £10m Origi at Anfield. He mused:
"I'm a little worried. It's a season without him [Origi], and Liverpool could really do with him [this season]. He's a huge talent, and I'd love to have had him this season"
Discussing his Liverpool move this week, Origi revealed that Reds captain Steven Gerrard also wanted the youngster to stay for the upcoming season. He told reporters:
"Steven Gerrard told me it was a shame I could not be here immediately, and they were expecting me with patience"
To be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is about re Origi's alleged 'huge talent', but in terms of squad structure and striker depth, I agree with the general principle that he should've stayed this season.
* With four competitions to compete for this year, Liverpool arguably need at least four strikers: two top-tier first-teamers (Sturridge + one other yet to be signed); one older, experienced back-up (Lambert), and one young, hungry rising star happy to learn from the other three (Origi).
* As I often argue, to ensure squad harmony amongst strikers, it's vitally important to get the demographics right, and Origi fits perfectly into the pecking order: Sturridge; New striker; Lambert; Origi.
* Given Sturridge's continual injury problems, having four strikers is even more imperative. What if Sturridge and the new striker (yet to be determined) get injured at the same time? That will leave Lambert as LFC's sole senior striker, which is wholly uninspiring.
* Origi may only be 19, but if he's as amazing as the hype suggests, why isn't he ready to play for Liverpool now? Romelu Lukaku was banging-in Premier League goals at the age of 19, and according to some LFC fans, Origi is the better player. If that's the case, then surely he's ready to emulate his international team-mate?
* Additionally, I find it strange that Origi is trusted enough to play in the World Cup - arguably the most pressurised level of football - but he's seemingly not ready to play for Liverpool. In my view, if he's ready for the World Cup, he's ready for LFC.
You can't have it both ways: On one hand, some fans hype Origi to the extent they claim he's better than Lukaku (nonsense IMO), and go on about how he shone in the World Cup and blah blah blah; then, in the next breath, they insist that he's not ready for Liverpool yet, and needs more time to develop etc. It doesn't compute.
If Origi had stayed at Liverpool, the club's striker situation would be looking a lot healthier right now:
* The Reds would have three strikers ready for the start of the new season.
* Origi undoubtedly would've played during pre-season, so he'd be fit enough to contribute.
* The experience gained over the next year would've been invaluable.
* A year to settle in, without the pressure of having to make an immediate impact.
Etc.
Granted, Fabio Borini may still be at the club come transfer deadline day, but he (IMO) just isn't going to cut it, and he's proved that again during pre-season.
Overall, I'm not that fussed as I don't rate Origi as highly as some, but have Liverpool made a mistake sending him out on loan?
Author: Jaimie K
In a radio interview this week, Nicol admitted that he's a 'little worried' about Liverpool's striker situation, and suggested that the club should've kept £10m Origi at Anfield. He mused:
"I'm a little worried. It's a season without him [Origi], and Liverpool could really do with him [this season]. He's a huge talent, and I'd love to have had him this season"
Discussing his Liverpool move this week, Origi revealed that Reds captain Steven Gerrard also wanted the youngster to stay for the upcoming season. He told reporters:
"Steven Gerrard told me it was a shame I could not be here immediately, and they were expecting me with patience"
To be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is about re Origi's alleged 'huge talent', but in terms of squad structure and striker depth, I agree with the general principle that he should've stayed this season.
* With four competitions to compete for this year, Liverpool arguably need at least four strikers: two top-tier first-teamers (Sturridge + one other yet to be signed); one older, experienced back-up (Lambert), and one young, hungry rising star happy to learn from the other three (Origi).
* As I often argue, to ensure squad harmony amongst strikers, it's vitally important to get the demographics right, and Origi fits perfectly into the pecking order: Sturridge; New striker; Lambert; Origi.
* Given Sturridge's continual injury problems, having four strikers is even more imperative. What if Sturridge and the new striker (yet to be determined) get injured at the same time? That will leave Lambert as LFC's sole senior striker, which is wholly uninspiring.
* Origi may only be 19, but if he's as amazing as the hype suggests, why isn't he ready to play for Liverpool now? Romelu Lukaku was banging-in Premier League goals at the age of 19, and according to some LFC fans, Origi is the better player. If that's the case, then surely he's ready to emulate his international team-mate?
* Additionally, I find it strange that Origi is trusted enough to play in the World Cup - arguably the most pressurised level of football - but he's seemingly not ready to play for Liverpool. In my view, if he's ready for the World Cup, he's ready for LFC.
You can't have it both ways: On one hand, some fans hype Origi to the extent they claim he's better than Lukaku (nonsense IMO), and go on about how he shone in the World Cup and blah blah blah; then, in the next breath, they insist that he's not ready for Liverpool yet, and needs more time to develop etc. It doesn't compute.
If Origi had stayed at Liverpool, the club's striker situation would be looking a lot healthier right now:
* The Reds would have three strikers ready for the start of the new season.
* Origi undoubtedly would've played during pre-season, so he'd be fit enough to contribute.
* The experience gained over the next year would've been invaluable.
* A year to settle in, without the pressure of having to make an immediate impact.
Etc.
Granted, Fabio Borini may still be at the club come transfer deadline day, but he (IMO) just isn't going to cut it, and he's proved that again during pre-season.
Overall, I'm not that fussed as I don't rate Origi as highly as some, but have Liverpool made a mistake sending him out on loan?
Author: Jaimie K
The choice might have been sign him on those terms or you don;t sign him. Who knows?
ReplyDeleteJust my opinion but I think another year of first team football will do Origi the world of good, help him become world class. A season of sat on our bench getting a few minutes here and there plus the odd start in the league cup could hold him back. For the same reason I wouldn't be too bothered to see Suso go on loan for another season because I don't think he's quite ready yet, but another year and he will be.
ReplyDeleteYou beat me to it. I just assumed the club, as stipulated by Lille, would not be allowed to sign him without first agreeing to loan him back for a season.
ReplyDeleteI would loan Suso out but to a prem club to improve him. If they loan him out to a Spanish club, I think he is done.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, Origi is not going to become aything close to world class in one year.
ReplyDeleteThat's definitely a possibility, but if that's the case, there surely would've been one or cursory reports somewhere highlighting that stipulation. Plus, it's not really something that the club's would try and keep secret, as it's just a standard thing.
ReplyDeleteI hope he is good and not injury prone. 10 mil for a striker who most of us have not heard of and only seen him play 2-3 games is a huge gamble. Our signings based on the world cup have never worked out good. A certain Senegalese springs to mind.
ReplyDeleteYeah I agree, just think these young lads need to be playing every week to fulfil their potential.
ReplyDeleteI already sense a repeat of 09/10
ReplyDeleteall our players getting injured , luckily though no off field stuff
I'd agree with that too. I'm a big fan of Suso, but sadly I can't see him getting many starts this season. If they loaned him to a West Brom/Sunderland type team and he does well he can come back and hopefully get into our first team next season. Even at worst it would raise his value.
ReplyDeletesuso is not good enough
ReplyDeletelacks pace and acceleration which is vital for an attacking mid
There were several reports that this was the case.The only reason we got him was because of the loan back one other team, can't remember who, wouldn't agree to the loan back that's why we got him
ReplyDeleteI think the club do not need another striker
ReplyDeleteit seems as if only bony and balotelli are available these guys are not good enough
we should instead focus our funds and improve the midfield di maria/ isco, gaitan , schniderlin ,bedner all seem available at the right price
i would take di maria and schniderlin
Maybe that's something that will come to light later. Given the club's current shortcomings (re: depth) in the striker department, I cannot see the logic in signing him and then loaning him out. If it was the idea of LFC to do this - and not part of a stipulation set forth by Lille - I would be shocked and a little irritated.
ReplyDelete..............................sturridge
ReplyDeletedi maria..................coutinho..............sterling
...................henderson.....schniderlin
if sturridge is injured we can play sterling up front or markovic
and we will wait till january or next summer until a proper striker is available
Pace is a bonus for an attacking midfielder not a necessity, Zidane was one of the best players I've seen in that position and he wasn't quick. Same with Iniesta, it's all about technique and vision.
ReplyDeletei dont know jk you can argue a case that sterling has.I look at it like this oggy kept lukaku out and played in later stages of the world cup non of our current strikers did.Oggy is better than lambert and hes better than an injured sturridge
ReplyDeleteAgreed. it's another one of those things that (IMO) require a definitive answer.
ReplyDeleteIf there were 'several reports', please post links. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteyes but if suso will play wide right or wide left you need pace there
ReplyDeletebut ozil did play out wide left for germany he is not that fast is he?
Yet he scored more goals than Henderson, Coutinho, and Gerrard in pre-season.
ReplyDeleteThat was the agreement with any potential buyer that he (Origi) would be loaned back to Lille for this season, that`s why we got him before the other big clubs who wanted his signature on these conditions.
ReplyDeletemoney talks im sure we could of overcome that problem
ReplyDeletei think lfc main task for the next few years is to keep sterling at anfield
ReplyDeletebecause if they can him origi,markovic and can will be awesome together
aspas and vooronin made me not to look into pre season
ReplyDeletei dont know zidane was a big guy and he could move
ReplyDeleteaccording to logans stat spread sheet hes top 20
ReplyDeleteThere are lots of reports stipulating that LFC would loan Origi back to Lille, but as far as I can see, there is nothing concrete to suggest that the loan-back was a compulsory stipulation by Lille. If you have evidence to back that point (i.e. that Lille demanded the loan), then I'd be interested to see it. In the absence of official statements, newspaper reports etc will suffice.
ReplyDeletelogan would support rodgers if he bought hesky to anfield
ReplyDeleteI'd agree that it's better to have a bit of pace out wide because it gives us another option, especially with our counter attacking style, but I wouldn't say it's vital. Suarez wasn't quick but he got away from people just because he saw things quicker than others. Look at the winner against England in the summer, he saw the opportunity before the centre backs even moved. The first five yards are in your head as a famous manager once said.
ReplyDeleteto go with ...in no particular order...tino.gerrad , can,allen.lucas.hendo, llana,lazer,sterling, we have enough mid fielders for the time being
ReplyDeletewhat is your opinion generally on liverpool buying and investing in young players ?
ReplyDeletein my opinion it is not sustainable , rafa managed to find players in the mid 20s and be considerably success
while arsene wenger tried to bring a young team together but lost his best player every season , i see us losing sterling soon , now he has aborted it and started buying real stars such as ozil and sanchez
but markovic has a tendon problem
ReplyDeleteand lallana has a knee injury
i don't know what a tendon is , but with a knee injury normally the player takes a lot longer to come back
I guess your right i got from media speculation nothing concrete as you say, but surely their`s no smoke without fire.
ReplyDeletewe cant write off 45m worth of player so when we have players to cover ,we dont actually have a striker to suit the system and lead the line if sturridge is injured which he is
ReplyDeletelambert ?
ReplyDeletechelsea cam pretty close with torres and eto , while geramny won the world cup with klose
He wasn't slow as I don't believe Suso is but that wasn't his game, he was all about getting into feet and creating with his technique and vision. Up until Messi came along I always believed Zidane was the best ever, simply because he could do everything. What a player. I've seen him in a charity game recently and could probably still play in the premier league now..
ReplyDeletei see lambert as a player to throw on and change a game or to bring on to give danny a rest if we are winning ..or a mid week game player after europe not as a player i want to start a run of games
ReplyDeleteZidane is still the best ever. The technique, the vision and the accuracy could not be matched by anyone. Suso can definitely succeed and should be given a chance. Sterling was given a chance and we saw what happened. Give Suso one too.
ReplyDeleteIf we are unable to get a new striker which is a huge possibility, we might try Sterling as a False 9 with lallana, markovic and coutinho as the midfield three. It could work.
ReplyDeletebut suso had a chance at almeria and in the second half of that year he was dreadful
ReplyDeleteyou never know until you try , if muller can play there why not sterling
ReplyDeleteSterling was utterly dreadful in the first half of last season and yet he turned it around. It takes one moment to turn a career around.
ReplyDeletedoes anyone else find it weird that shelvy had one game as a striker and scored yet rodgers never played him tehre ever again?
ReplyDeleteAll the fuss cooked up because we still haven't got a good striker and BR put priority for a backup like lambert first instead of main striker and i'm sure sturridge gonna sit out couple time for his injuries record.
ReplyDeleteMaybe BR gonna come up with micheal ngoo eh.
it could well be a master stroke but for me it would negate so many of sterlings good points for me hes effective when running at players from deep but passing to his feet when there are two defenders glued to him for me isnt his game i may be wrong
ReplyDeleteIts early days yet, i know Lambert hasn`t looked great in pre-season but who`s to say he won`t kick start the season with a flurry of goals, patience my friend only time will tell.
ReplyDeletei really rated shelvy and would have shipped out allen and lucas before him
ReplyDeleteShelvey is a weird case. He is very inconsistent but is very talented at the same time. I believe that we should have loaned him out to Swansea and not have sold him. He had a certain passion and vigour to his game.
ReplyDeleteHe's doing well at Swansea, hopefully we'll of put a clause in that we get first option on him if they ever sell.
ReplyDeletethe hardest thing to do in football is score and we released a player who for me had the potential to do that regular
ReplyDeleteWe have plenty of creative midfielders already i think, what we need is a striker who knows how to play of the shoulder`s of the last defender, and can hit the target ( goal) with say 90% of his shots he doesn`t have to be world class just quick footed and strong enough to hold of a big bustling defender that`s why i think remy appealed to Rodgers, pity about the reported medical failure he would have been perfect for us.
ReplyDeleteI'll try to find them they were 3 to 4 weeks ago
ReplyDeletehttp://talksport.com/football/i-wanted-origi-join-liverpool-right-away-admits-rodgers-140730104734
ReplyDeleteHere's a link quoting Rodgers:
"Of course, as the manager, he is someone that could have really helped us this season.
"He’s 19 years of age, 6ft 2in, quick, strong and can score goals. But we knew part of the deal was that he was going back to Lille on loan."
Just a thought, but i wonder if anyone as given Christian Benteke a thought as an option? he in my opinion could be the one we`re looking for and wouldn`t cost the earth neither, i know he`s just recovering from injury but he knows how to put the ball into the net, and could be well worth a look at food for thought i think.
ReplyDeletehe was a flop last season
ReplyDeleteI quite like this site, it amuses me. The whole strker dilemma is interesting, look at the really top quality sides, they have a plethora of top quality midfielders supplemented by a main striker. Fluid movement is key, as is flexibility. It's now about pace on the counter and movement amongst the front 4 or 5. It would be nice to get another forward but I'm not sure we need an outright no 9, look at the bigger picture, dominate games and have quality to finish. I'd prefer us to play like bayern or barca than chelsea or athleti, it's only my opinion but I'm quietly confident about the new season.
ReplyDeleteThis signing had NOTHING to do with the world cup. We had been watching him since he was 14 and had planned to sign him anyway...his breakthrough at the WC just forced us to do it a year earlier than we had probably intended. ...read the interview with the player.,..he confirms they showed him video of his performance in an u15 international tournament. The days of purchasing an El Hadji Diouf on the strength of 3 decent games in the WC are long gone....unless you are Sam Allardyce it seems, (and be prepared to see the signing of Enner Valencia crash and burn spectacularly as a result:-)
ReplyDeleteI will take your word for it. The point I am making is that he is still largely unproven and spending 10 million for a player we hope will become world class in the future is a huge gamble. It does not matter how he does in an U 15 tournament because the level in the PL is completely different. We have to just hope he does well.
ReplyDeleteI tried to link the article but it got caught by moderation. Rodgers stated:
ReplyDelete"Of course, as the manager, he is someone that could have really helped us this season.
"He’s 19 years of age, 6ft 2in, quick, strong and can score goals. But we knew part of the deal was that he was going back to Lille on loan."
Jaimie Jaimie Jaimie,
ReplyDeleteHere we are again. What are you talking about?
OK where do we start. The comparison to Lukaku. This seems to come from your belief that all player develop at the same rate according to age. Yes Origi is a talent but he is clearly developed a bit later than Lukaku. This is in part due to first team opportunity, I would say Lille have better players than Anderlecht did, so that made it easier for Lukaku to break through.....but mainly its just because footballers, and human beings in general develop at different rates, boys become men at different rates at that age, but that is no barometer of ones potential to end up better than the other. Take Didier Drogba.....he had not even broken into Le Mans first team at 19, he debuted at 20 and scored just 12 goals in 64 league matches by the time he was 24....but big clubs and coaches still scouted him as a potential top player (Mourinho had scouted him from prior to his Porto days). So by your universal age development scale claptrap...Drogba should never have amounted to anything, but strangely (and often unfortunately for us) I seem to remember him being rather good.
The fact is we have scouted Origi since he was 14 and that's why we think he can become a top talent. His appearance (replacing the dropped Lukaku dont forget)and performance at WC were a surprise at this stage in his development and i think he would not have been given the opportunity to play if the more experienced Benteke not got injured. However the point is that we were going to sign him anyway, albeit it was probably intended for next year before hence Lille insisting on the loan. That brings me on to your point about having him in the squad this year....not playing at a big club has ruined the development of many a player over the years, you don't need me to run through examples.... We all know we are going to sign another forward for big money and yes there is a possibity that two might get injured but more likely he would not get a sniff (we will be playing 4-3-3 this year most of the time, with one central forward) and that's no use to anybody him rotting on the bench when he could be kicking on at Lille. Having world class potential doesn't mean you are ready to play for a top team week in week out when you have less than 50 first team games.
Of course the level is utterly different, we are not signing him because of an u15 tourney.....I was merely making the point we have watched this kids every move for five years and that's why we think he is going to be special. We are not the only ones....Wenger tried to sign him too, and whatever you think of his recent failures there are few that have better scouting networks than him. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't find the ones i saw previously and cannot spend to much time looking for them, but this one proposes that it was BR who offered him back too keep Dortmund, but the other ones I saw stated Dortmund were not willing to loan back.. so who knows what's the truth and what isn't
ReplyDeletehttp://www.eyefootball.com/news/19539/Liverpool-loan-Divock-Origi-Lille.html
also
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/391481/Simon-Mignolet-tips-Liverpool-bound-Divock-Origi-to-become-top-Premier-League-forward
How about Talksport's direct quote from Brendan Rodgers posted by Sean above? This was reported everywhere, I don't see how you can have failed to see it!!
ReplyDeleteTwo things...
ReplyDelete1. It was widely reported that the loan agreement was innate to the deal. If Liverpool wanted the player they'd have to agree to the loan. I.e. From all accounts, if a Liverpool could have him playing for them this year, they would.
2. Liverpool have learnt from Chelsea's strategy over the last few years. (No, not buying all the superstars, the other strategy,) Buy exceptional young talent before they become ridiculously over priced. If they come good, awesome. If they don't quite fulfil their potential, we'll get our money back and sometimes a little more.
Not sure what the debate is here - BR came right out and said it was a stipulation of the deal in the interview he gave right after we confirmed the signing. To paraphrase, he said it's a shame Origi can't be with the squad this season but Liverpool always knew that was going to be part of the deal. That jives pretty perfectly with all the media reports leading up to the deal claiming that anyone who bought Origi would only get a bid accepted if they loaned him back to Lille for one more year, and all the media reports after the deal saying the same thing. I can follow up with a link post on that quote, I didn't put it in because every time I put a link in my post doesn't go up until it has been 'approved'.
ReplyDeleteNicol knows full well that there was no option to sign him this season. He simply states that he would have liked to see him available immediately. Although I have got no time whatsoever for Steve Nicol's opinions, in his defence, his comments in this case have no relevance to the ill-informed "point" of the article.
ReplyDeleteObtain a chicken's foot and pull the stringy bits that make the claws grab. That's a tendon.
ReplyDeleteSturridge is confirmed as playing on Sunday against Dortmund.
ReplyDeleteAt Swansea, he's a big fish in a small pond.
ReplyDeleteYes i agree last season wasn`t his best but he did have a few niggling injurys, but i still think he`s a good prospect if he has fully recovered, don`t forget the season before he was a close second to Gareth bale, for young player of the year, and no disrespect to Villa but he`s not exactly playing with the best of players.
ReplyDeleteIt seems that it wasn't Liverpool's choice to send him on loan though.They were only allowed to buy him if they agreed to a loan move. Liverpool obviously rate the guy enough that they're willing to sacrifice one year of his services by buying him on a layaway type of deal, because they're confident he'll turn out to be a top player, thus they will do whatever need be to have him locked up as a Liverpool player.
ReplyDeleteHe could make a Sterlingesque leap and and walk I'm to the first team. Considering how little you admitted you had seen of him it may not be for you to say what he can and can't do. Everyone is entitled to any opinion like but more info usually the better.
ReplyDeleteThe test of his game is pretty herbs though. A truly stupid footballer
ReplyDeletePeople have put up quotes from Rodgers. They are there above to read and reply to when you want.
ReplyDeleteHere's a few links to back you up on this one:
ReplyDeletehttp://talksport.com/football/i-wanted-origi-join-liverpool-right-away-admits-rodgers-140730104734
http://www.squawka.com/news/brendan-rodgers-admits-he-wanted-divock-origi-to-move-to-liverpool-immediately/150268
If I recall correctly Jaimie, BR said soon after the transfer that sending him back on loan 'was the only way the deal could happen' or something along those lines
ReplyDeleteBoth Eto and Torres are way more mobile than Lambert. I argue even Torres would be more effective in our current structure. Granted Lambert will score some goals but he has no pace and will surely be a backup striker
ReplyDeleteI trust in Rodgers. It could be that he thinks Origi is another season from being able to make an impact in the Premiership. Lets face it if Brendan brings him in this year and he struggles the the usual vultures will be screaming that BR has no clue and Origi would face an uphill battle with fans who thinks hes just another Borini and with all important confidence.If BR thought he was ready now in sure he would be at Melwood right now. Have faith that Rodgers has a plan. Before we make a proper move for a striker we need to free up some funds and wages.
ReplyDeleteWith Riena gone, Agger seemingly to be culled off at CB( along with someone else, a loan or sale because we have too many CB's) Borini's sale to Sunderland, Assaidi is still for Stoke i think and even a slow and a former shadow of his own self Lucas to possibly be shifted on we might be able to pull something off but there is no chance we are going to be shelling out more millions until at least some of these deals are in the bank. Sorry guys but the Suarez money is gone and Anfieds redevelopment has already begun. Be patient and we will see how the squad looks come September. Y.N.W.A.
That is what I was gonna write- I'm sure we wanted him, but the only way to sign him was loaning him back to Lille who want to be in CL by the way...
ReplyDeleteNot every midfielder has to be fast- think Zidane...
ReplyDelete