Liverpool midfielder Jordan Henderson is arguably the club's most improved player over the last 18 months, and he surprised many people last season with his excellent performances, including Anfield legend John Barnes, who admits that he failed to spot Hendo's potential.
After a slow start at Liverpool, Henderson has transformed his career to the extent that he's sure to be a certain-starter for England during the upcoming World Cup.
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo this week, Barnes praised £20m Henderson for 'turning his career around', but conceded:
“I must admit I didn’t see this potential in him. I didn’t see much of him at Sunderland and then he struggled in that first season at Liverpool, and you can only go on what you’ve seen. I’ve met Jordan and I know what a hard working and humble guy he is. I’m glad for him".
Barnes is not the only ex-Red to eat humble pie over Henderson. In October, Reds Icon Ian St. John criticised Henderson for failing to have a consistent impact on the team, and urged him to 'try and influence the game more'. A few months later, St. John admitted he was 'wrong' about Hendo:
"I can’t believe how much Jordan Henderson has improved. I felt the club was too big for him when he signed. He wasn’t making an impact and I was thinking: ‘You need to go back to Sunderland'. His passing has been transformed, he is running behind defenders and took on the extra weight of Steven Gerrard’s absence"
I've never been on the anti-Henderson bandwagon. I've always been critical of the transfer fee, but that has nothing to with his playing ability. For the most part, I've been slightly indifferent to Hendo, and to an extent, that feeling remains (in that I don't have a problem with him being replaced/challenged).
The only real criticism I've ever had of Henderson - and continue to have - is that his end product is not consistent enough. With five goals and seven assists last season, that appears to be changing (although he only scored in 3 games out of 40), but Hendo needs to continue to score/create goals consistently if he's to maintain his improvement.
People go on about Henderson's running, energy, and hassling of the opposition, and that's all well and good, but that's not enough. He is, ostensibly, an attacking midfielder, and (IMO), he needs to be weighing in with at least 10-12 goals per season, and a similar number of assists.
To reach that level, Henderson (arguably) needs competition, which is why I really hope Rodgers brings in at least one more attacking midfielder this summer. Adam Lallana fits the bill perfectly, and his presence in the squad will put serious pressure on Hendo to consistently perform. He needs to feel the fire, and if he buckles under the pressure of competition, then so be it.
The absolute worst thing that Henderson can do now is feel as if he's 'arrived', and rest on his laurels. Players should be in the first XI on merit, and one good season shouldn't mean that Henderson's place in the team is now inviolable.
I don't have personal/emotional allegiance to individual players, no matter how good they are, so if someone else comes in and performs better overall than Henderson, then that player - whoever it is - should stay in the team.
It works both ways, of course - if Hendo kicks on, then he should keep his place.
Author: Jaimie K
After a slow start at Liverpool, Henderson has transformed his career to the extent that he's sure to be a certain-starter for England during the upcoming World Cup.
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo this week, Barnes praised £20m Henderson for 'turning his career around', but conceded:
“I must admit I didn’t see this potential in him. I didn’t see much of him at Sunderland and then he struggled in that first season at Liverpool, and you can only go on what you’ve seen. I’ve met Jordan and I know what a hard working and humble guy he is. I’m glad for him".
Barnes is not the only ex-Red to eat humble pie over Henderson. In October, Reds Icon Ian St. John criticised Henderson for failing to have a consistent impact on the team, and urged him to 'try and influence the game more'. A few months later, St. John admitted he was 'wrong' about Hendo:
"I can’t believe how much Jordan Henderson has improved. I felt the club was too big for him when he signed. He wasn’t making an impact and I was thinking: ‘You need to go back to Sunderland'. His passing has been transformed, he is running behind defenders and took on the extra weight of Steven Gerrard’s absence"
I've never been on the anti-Henderson bandwagon. I've always been critical of the transfer fee, but that has nothing to with his playing ability. For the most part, I've been slightly indifferent to Hendo, and to an extent, that feeling remains (in that I don't have a problem with him being replaced/challenged).
The only real criticism I've ever had of Henderson - and continue to have - is that his end product is not consistent enough. With five goals and seven assists last season, that appears to be changing (although he only scored in 3 games out of 40), but Hendo needs to continue to score/create goals consistently if he's to maintain his improvement.
People go on about Henderson's running, energy, and hassling of the opposition, and that's all well and good, but that's not enough. He is, ostensibly, an attacking midfielder, and (IMO), he needs to be weighing in with at least 10-12 goals per season, and a similar number of assists.
To reach that level, Henderson (arguably) needs competition, which is why I really hope Rodgers brings in at least one more attacking midfielder this summer. Adam Lallana fits the bill perfectly, and his presence in the squad will put serious pressure on Hendo to consistently perform. He needs to feel the fire, and if he buckles under the pressure of competition, then so be it.
The absolute worst thing that Henderson can do now is feel as if he's 'arrived', and rest on his laurels. Players should be in the first XI on merit, and one good season shouldn't mean that Henderson's place in the team is now inviolable.
I don't have personal/emotional allegiance to individual players, no matter how good they are, so if someone else comes in and performs better overall than Henderson, then that player - whoever it is - should stay in the team.
It works both ways, of course - if Hendo kicks on, then he should keep his place.
Author: Jaimie K
You continue to say this and il continue to remind you, unless you can find evidence to support your claim that Henderson was purchased as an attacking midfielder then you need to accept that is not his role,if your refereeing to his advanced position in some games that is purely to pressure the opposition.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't care if Henderson scores at all, aslong as he continues to force mistakes which ultimately lead to other players scoring then his place in the team is a cert IMO.
I always knew he had it in him and I am glad that he has finally begun to show his potential and his class. I for one am glad that we've Hendo than many other English players who really wants to play for the club and you can see that when he's on field, even though the transfer fee was a bit too much but am sure with time we all will realize what a bargain he was for 20M.
ReplyDeleteI hate to say it but that Stevie.G absence is what transformed Liverpool and since then it been awesome. That was the time when Henderson took the bull by its horns
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean 'evidence'?! The evidence is in his position on the field. He is not a defensive-mid; he plays higher up the field.
ReplyDeleteYou are yet another fan who is in denial, and will make excuses rather than accept that Hendo needs to consistently score/create more.
A couple of months ago, Henderson said the following:
"I've been trying to arrive in the box a lot more. I'm trying to improve a lot of things in my game and goal scoring is one of those areas"
That is a description of an attacking midfielder. Rodgers is clearly aware of the issue, and wants Henderson to score more goals, which is part of the primary role of an attacking midfielder.
I don't think it matters what we call him -- attacking, defensive, box-to-box, whatever. What does matter are the 10 decent chances he should have put away last season. It's his finishing that needs to improve, really. I agree, we can expect more from him. I think we'll get it, too: he seems that sort of driven character that gets where he wants to be, no matter the struggle.
ReplyDeleteThat is why Jamie, i am hoping and praying I Rakitic(26) is signed on the sly and taken out the grasps of Barcelona with £25M offer on table. He would create and score goals from midfield, he is world class centre midfield who would take the reigns from S Gerrard(34)
ReplyDelete----------Gerrard---------- - The '1' - Dictate
ReplyDelete---JH or PC---JH or JA--- - The '2' - leg work of utmost importance.
That is my understanding.of the Rodgers setup when Gerrard was moved to the deeper role and is most likely to continue until Gerrard is no longer part of the setup.
You can call it denial if you wish IMO Coutinho is an attacking midfielder, Sterling is an attacking midfielder, it's their primary role to score and create, if it was Henderson's role to score I don't think he would get in the team, he certainly wasn't bought with goalscoring in mind.
ReplyDeleteYes I thought you were referring to his position on the field, personally I don't think he was put there with goal scoring in mind, but that's my opinion.
Can will play one of those sides as well and is by all accounts full of running
ReplyDeleteYou know that I'm a big fan of Henderson - but why am I automatically in denial if I don't demand a greater creative return? What about chances created that you conveniently missed?
ReplyDeleteNoting other contributions on the pitch shouldn't be an excuse. Allen can do all the physical things Hendo can but there is a clear difference in their impact on the team IMO. I argue that Henderson's impact goes beyond his obvious physical contribution and that's why he's an ever-present now.
You're too myopic about goals and assists. I'm waiting for the piece that demands more from Flanagan!
On a side note, you regularly hold yourself above the regular LFC fan. This time, you disregard sentiment. John Barnes? :)
I've just seen your extended quote taken and that's fair enough I see your point he's asked him to work on his goalscoring.
ReplyDeleteMy honest opinion I see Henderson in the future replacing Gerrard in a deep lying midfield position, not in an attacking role, purely because he is not a natural goalscorer.
Yeah, just making the point that in the above system the '2' will not be battered by Rodgers if they do not score goals as that is not their main purpose in the setup..
ReplyDeleteWhy do the media keep quoting John Barnes. A great player in his day but his coaching and management of players highlighted his limitations and inability to assess player ability. All in all his opinions have little to n value
ReplyDeleteIf a player (who could have been Rakitic, but he's gone now) could come in and provide more goals and assists than Henderson then I'm all for that. The reality though, is that there is no guarantee of someone doing that. It says enough that Rodgers initially ousted Henderson with Allen, Sahin and Shelvey, but who prevailed? And, I felt that the midfield without Henderson for the title run in looked mid table, bereft of confidence and vitality.
ReplyDeleteI think you have the right idea although I think it goes beyond pure leg work.
ReplyDeleteThe diamond has made things interesting. I absolutely despise it, Henderson and Allen have to do a crazy amount of work, effectively covering centre mid and their respective wing. If that's the case, they shouldn't be subject to criticism next season. But I hope that we revert to a regular 4-3-3 system.
For me Hendo is box to box and yes he should score more, but he shouldn't simply be replaced by player X when there is no guarantee of success which is purely goals and assists.
It will be great for both LFC and the boy himself if he can score 10+ goals & 10+ assists in a season. If that really happens, JH will be that top-class midfielder that LFC has longed for in a long long time. Let's wait and see if he really has 'it' in him to succeed and of course, I certainly hope he can prove it next season.
ReplyDeleteSo you want competition for Henderson jaimie? On the other hand you say with our current number of midfielders the competition is not healthy enough... You want something to fight hendo for his place, fair enough, but if he fails he will be brandmarked as a transfer misstake again, waste of money or whatever ... Hard times ahead for BR ;)
ReplyDeleteThe diamond is just a variation of the 4-3-3.
ReplyDeleteYou still have a 1-2 midfield with another player ahead of them supporting the attack..
I don't believe that to be the case. The diamond has no 'wingers' so the two central players cover the position defensively. In attack, the fullbacks are pushed on to occupy that space.
ReplyDeleteProblem about the diamond is, that the fullback positions aren't covered enough, you could see this a few times last season
ReplyDeleteYou still have gerrard as the '1' and 2 players ahead of him in the diamond...
ReplyDeleteI acknowledged that :) but the 2 have a significantly different role because there are no natural wide men on the pitch. If the 2 operated as centrally as they normally would in a 4-3-3 the wings would be free for the opposition. This isn't the case though as Henderson and Allen defensively worked down the flanks.
ReplyDeleteSturridge and Suarez still ended up wide with the diamond.
ReplyDeleteLike I said, as long as Gerrard remains in the team then goals from the the purpose of Hendo and Allen will not be to score goals.
Whole point of the diamond is to pair SAS...
ReplyDeleteWe will agree on something, some day!
Who said you were 'in denial'? My comment wasn't directed at you; plus, it was related to the classification of Henderson's position, not his creative return.
ReplyDeleteNo one doubts Henderson's physical contribution, but he clearly needs to score/create more consistently.
And please don't post nonsense about me holding myself above the 'regular LFC fan'. With respect, that is rubbish. I'm different to some fans, but I don't see my self 'above' other fans in the slightest, and I've never stated anything to that effect. That's something you are projecting.
And how have I disregarded Barnes?
I'm not quite sure how you arrived at this conclusion. I've never stated Henderson is a waste of money, or a transfer mistake. I've only ever said his was inflated, and he needs to score/create more often.
ReplyDeleteIf he has competition, and doesn't perform to the same level as, say, Lallana, then he'll still be an excellent player to have in the squad, just like Lucas.
So was the 3-5-2 :-)
ReplyDeletePete Allens work rate is not as high as Henderson and is not as strong i do not rate Allens capabilities much at all.
ReplyDeletei like that phrase Jamie. 'if he buckles under the pressure the so be it'. indeed. because if he is under pressure that means the player brought in will be performing. Adam Lallana is perfect as he will guarentee man of the match Premier League performances. Roberto Firmino is another player who could be an alternative if Lallana doesnt go through. Shaqiri should be signed regardless. we are Liverpool and we need to go for the CL next season. especially with a world class player like Suarez
ReplyDeleteAgree about his positioning. We aim to play further up the field and win the ball there. It's like an advanced destroyer (terms in football mean nothing). I do think he needs to add a couple more goals to his game though. He is advanced positions and will get opportunities. He needs to be brave and get himself in scoring positions too.
ReplyDeleteIt's not happening. Get over it man.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with this. In the 3 at the front two would be doing much more defensive work than the two do at the head of the diamond. Pete is right in that it is much more work for the CMs
ReplyDeleteWide in the attack but less so when the opposition have transitioned.
ReplyDeleteAgreed
ReplyDeletesorry, i probably wasn't precise enough. i was talking about the potential new signing (whos job should be so challenge hendo). if we buy, let's say lallana, hendo would have some nice competition i agree with you, while i also agree with you that hendo needs to improve his scoring. So if competition for hendo is given and he drasitcally improves his goal scoring return, forces lallana to stay on the bench, would you consider lallana as a "fail-signing" because he couldnt break through, even though he was the reason henderson stepped up?
ReplyDelete"If he dies he dies"
ReplyDeleteStill basically 4-3-3 when we attack. That is all I am saying.
ReplyDeleteAmen! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDgcc5Sif3k&feature=kp
ReplyDeleteAmen - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDgcc5Sif3k&feature=kp
ReplyDelete4-3-3
ReplyDelete-------Gerrard------
Hendo------Allen---
1-2-1
-------Gerrard------
Hnedo------Allen--
------Coutinho-----
In both instances Hendo and Allen still need to 'carry' Gerrard?
i disagree, in a 4-3-3 the two wingers are helping out more, release the work of the midfielders, while in a 4-1-2-1-2 formation there is only one man (offensive midfielder) to help out, while 2 strikers stay upfront
ReplyDeleteWhat when we track back?
ReplyDeleteWhy pay an extra 5 mill for Lallana when theres better talent out there at that price and many are younger.
ReplyDeleteBiggest single fee no?
ReplyDeleteI remember Rafa bemoaning signing players for around those fees and how much of a gamble it was. In reference to Babel I think. That was more than half a decade ago and without the doping of big spenders such as City. Like I say in TODAYS football money it is a pittance. That would be football as a whole.
I agree with that wholly. I am just saying with the two wide forwards they tend to help cover the wide areas when we are being attacked. Less so in a diamond.
ReplyDeletebut if hendo stepps up, because of the new competition, it woudln't have been a bad move to sign someone else to compete for the spot, because otherwise hendo wouldn't have improved that much otherwise, right?
ReplyDeleteWhy couldn't Rodgers spend £14m on one decent player? Did someone put a gun to his head and demand that he sign two £7m players? He could've got Christian Eriksen or Wilfried Bony for the same money, both of whom were heavily linked with LFC, and in Bony's case, specifically stated he wanted the move.
ReplyDeleteIt's not though mate.
ReplyDeletehenderson is a deep lying play maker like xavi ,modric,sweinstiger hendos stats are as good as those guys
ReplyDeleteHenderson does not play as a deep-lying playmaker for LFC. He plays a more advanced role.
ReplyDeleteit's a fact, that the FB positions in a 4-1-2-1-2 formation aren't covered as good as in a 4-3-3 formation, regardless of tracking back or not...
ReplyDeletethe diamond has been used by BR to combine SAS in their favoured positions, while it weakens our worst area on the pitch (defence, especially RB and LB)
Jordan Henderson is a very good player. never get that twisted. but we are Liverpool Football Club and we arent gonna go very far with the current players we have. we are definately signing at least 3 midfielders this summer and i think Rodgers will buy a CB and a LB and wait until after the World Cup to sign more players.
ReplyDeleteAdam Lallana (26) - AM/CM - £25M
Xherdan Shaqiri (22) - RM/AM - £15M
Pedro Rodriguez (26) - LW/ST - £22M
total: £62M
to be fair all 3 of those players could play on a matchday and Jordan Henderson would still be in the side. and credit to Jordans versatility i have confidence he will still be a great player due to his attitude and determination to do well, even if he hasnt got the greatest technical ability.
-------------Gerrard------------Hendo
-------------------------------------------------
Shaqiri-----------------Lallana------------Pedro
--------------------------Suarez
the LB and CB looks like almost certainly being
Alberto Moreno (21) - LWB/LM - £16M
Dejan Lovren (25) - CB - £20M
so in total that will be
Rickie Lambert (32) - ST/AM - £4M
Emre Can (20) - DM/CM/AM - £10M
Alberto Moreno (21) - LWB/LM - £16M
Dejan Lovren (25) - CB - £20M
Adam Lallana (26) - CM/AM - £25M
Xherdan Shaqiri (21) - RM/AM - £15M
Pedro Rodriguez (26) LW/ST - £22M
total: £112M
BR will sell a number of players including the following
Pepe Reina - £5M, Oussama Assaidi - £7M, Fabio Borini - £10M, Iago Aspas - £6M, Luis Alberto - £4M, Seb Coates - £5M, Conon Coady - £2M, Joe Allen - £10M, Lucas Leiva - £10M
total: £59M
World Cup years are always the best years as a club to be at your best and up there with the best because when players shine in the World Cup they will want to join your club. Liverpool will definately be in a strong position for all the upcoming talents from this World Cup.
Henderson is brilliant
ReplyDeletemodric plays in a similar position to modric
,modric 1 goal 6 assists this year 3 goals and 6 assists last year
according to madrid fans he was their 2nd best player after cr7
bastian sweinstiger called one of the best in the world 4 goals 4 assist
xavi 3 goals and 5 assists this year , 5 goals and 5 assists
so can mr jaimie kindly explain which position thees great players play?
so is andres iniesta, one of the best midfielders at the moment, he has the most advanced position of the barca midfield.. he managed 3 goals and 9 assists (14) in 35 games, while hendo achieved 4 goals and 7 assists (13) in the same amount of games... hardly a difference isn't it?
ReplyDeletemodric don't play deep (alonso and khedira do) as well but he is considered the worlds best
ReplyDeleteExactly but my point is that going forward/attack relates to 4-1-2-1-2 being another variation of 4-3-3 .
ReplyDeleteNone of those three plays the same position as Henderson. They all play roles similar to Gerrard, i.e. in front of the back four; dictating the pace of play etc. Modrid, perhaps, is the closest of the three, but even he tends to play deeper than Hendo.
ReplyDeleteHenderson plays ahead of Gerrard, and spends a lot of his time in the final third of the pitch. You don't see Xavi in the opposition penalty box that often.
And I agree: Modric plays in a similar position to Modric.
suarez is not staying mate he will join rela madrid for 70m
ReplyDeletein terms of going forward only i agree with you, especially with sterling in the offensive midfield role, who often drifts to the flanks instinctively
ReplyDeleteThen I don't understand how someone can be 'in denial' just because they don't share the same opinion; your definition of Henderson and his role. It's simply a differing opinion, not a denial of something explicit e.g a law or fact. One opinion cannot write off another opinion which is how I saw it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not one to post anti-JK propaganda. Sometimes, your words come out as authoritative, e.g when you brand or judge the average fan as a majority which can be condescending.
lol
ReplyDeletebut if they play in front of the back for where does busquets, martinez,khedira,alonso etc play
theese teams do not have 2 dms
It's quite a similar role that Modric plays in to Modric. I remember watching Modric recently and thinking yes that is the Modric role.
ReplyDeleteCorrect - So the central attacking mid drops back a bit and the two players behind him slide wider. This is because there are no wingers to tuck back, leaving the two centre mids to cover two defensive jobs.
ReplyDeleteHenderson is a box to box midfielder which is what Modoric and Sweinstiger are?
ReplyDeletei meant endo plays in a similar position to modric
ReplyDeletehe is not essentially an attacking midfielder, he is a box to box midfielder, and the harassing of opponents and those goals are enough. it sets the tone for how Liverpool press and harass and overwhelm teams which is the most important ingredient for what Liverpool achieved,,and allows the front four players to thrive and score goals,,, for some reason ive come across this site a few times while researching all things Liverpool,,,you are a very poor analyst of football and Liverpool, ,you are the worst ive come across,,just a man dribbling nonsense,,
ReplyDeletethe reason why i prefer the 433
ReplyDeleteCorrect sorry i meant Sturidge
ReplyDeleteNeither do I but he can still go out there and 'do a job' for Rodgers and the team. This is my point though, people only credit Henderson for what he brings physically, Joe Allen can do all the running etc but it's clear who has the greater effect overall, who the better option is.
ReplyDeletemodric is IMO a player type you cant really compare to henderson, while schweinsteiger plays exactly the same #6 role as gerrard does
ReplyDeleteThat's one season. Iniesta is 30; Henderson is 23. Look back at Iniesta's career, and you will see his goals/assists ratio is consistent good. Last 3 seasons:
ReplyDelete* 2012-13: 24 goals/assists
* 2011-12: 17 goals/assists
* 2010-11: 18 goals/assists
Henderson:
2011-12: 5 goals/assists
2012-13: 12 goals/assists
2013-14: 12 goals/assists
Considering Hendo has made 132 apps for LFC, I'd say there is a significant difference.
martinez does gerrards role
ReplyDeletejoe allen is probably the closest we have to modric
i think coutinho is the same position as iniesta similar players
ReplyDeleteAre you capable of entering discussion without framing everything as a question?
ReplyDeleteThe idea that Henderson is a 'box to box' midfielder is created and perpetuated by LFC fans. It is not (IMO) borne out in practice.
It's a meaningless label anyway. All attacking central midfielders are, essentially' box-to-box midfielders. When the team attacks, they're in the final third; when the team is under pressure, they're back defending their own penalty box.
True but we could make those shoulda woulda coulda examples of all managers at any time. True it seems now that it was poorly spent money but we don't know the full ins and outs of transfers including wages, signing on fees etc. What seems on the surface to be similar money may not have been over the length of a contract. Like putting a tenner or fiver on a 10-1. On the surface the odds are the same but the loss is different. Remember the transfer decisions are not made by Rodgers entirely. He would have been advised by staff. Also do we know for certain that those players would have been the successes they have seemed to be at their clubs for us?
ReplyDeleteAnother point is that they may have wanted two players rather than one. We were slightly unlucky with cup draws and we may have seen a greater need for squad depth had we gone further.
why does coutinho not get any criticism jaimie? ,
ReplyDeleteat the start of the summer there was a poll if i remember who is liverpools most important player catalyzed by kolo lolo comments by you and coutinho won
so he has dissapointed the most jamie, his stats are similar to hendos as well
is it because he is Brazilian he does not get criticism ?
So was it Rafa who signed him or Borrel? I asked the question recently who signed Ibe and someone said the current head of the youth set up rather than Rodgers. So I am interested to know if anyone knows for sure. I Rafa had a big hand in the Suso signing but I am unsure of the Sterling.
ReplyDeleteYou echo my hopes,perhaps Luke will be be head boy in The Class of '14.
ReplyDeletemartinez isn't picked often in midfield, he covers CB atm
ReplyDeletewell, you won this one ;_)
ReplyDeleteAgain, you are projecting something that just isn't there.
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about one opinion 'writing off' another? It's my opinion that Joey is in denial; do you get that? Obviously it's a differing opinion, just like when people disagree with me it's a differing view.
When people disagree with me about Hendo's position, do I see it as them 'writing off' my view? No. I see it as them having the right to think whatever they like.
http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2013/08/kolo-toure-claims-coutinho-best-player-at-liverpool.html
ReplyDeletehere is the link where you say "if i had to choose id have coutinho in the team over suarez every day of the week"
maybe that is why you do not criticize the silky brazilian because you would contradict yourself
We might as well just spend a couple of mil on a really convincing Lallana dummy with Jurassic Park style anamatronics if that is the case. Pocket the rest to spend on combining Aspas, Alberto and any other duds into one mega-Voltron player.
ReplyDeletecoutinho is attacking midfielder Henderson is box to box,, and that quote saying he wants to get into to box more and score goals doesn't mean he's an attacking midfielder,, that can be attributed to any position on the field,, every outfield player says this, Jamie your first lines are quite childish in response to joey 2771,, offering no concrete proof that the guy is wrong,, from what I have seen about you I presume you are only a young teenager, so for everyone else here just check out youtube videos of koptalk tv,, dunc knows best,, far more mature,, better discussion and analysis about Liverpool football and the club,, this site is
ReplyDeletejust embarrassing,,
No, mine is just one view. I'm sure there are many who share your opinion on the matter. There's no right or wrong here; just different views.
ReplyDeleteFabregas? No 10? Does as much work as Henderson? Prove it!
ReplyDeleteEven Yaya Toure has been released of his defensive duties.
let's say it in a different way - your opinion convinced me
ReplyDeletewe should sign him then ? martinez
ReplyDeletedon't think so, costs too much, is quite unmobile.. i personally don't really rate him that much
ReplyDeleteUntil he signs for a club we will not know, i am hoping B Rodgers pulls his finger out and pulls of coup right from the noses of Barcelona.
ReplyDeleteClearly, you haven't been here long as I highlighted Coutinho's inconsistency last season quite a few times.
ReplyDeleteI don't have favourites; I treat every player the same.
why does it say hold on comments are to be moderated
ReplyDeletePlease be fair to Borini. What sort of chance was he given? At Liverpool it is always the same - some terrible players get to play match after match and other people get a couple of opportunities and then they're chopped. In other words, if your face fits...Johnson is a case in point - total waste of space but plays season after season. Not to mention Lucas and Allen. Now the Sack will probably be another one even though it's clear anything beyond a five foot pass is too much for him and he's as slow as a hippo. Given a chance I'm sure Borini would score quite a few goals - he did very well for Sunderland.
ReplyDeletesorry ,
ReplyDeletei must have missed it then , so do you think liverpool need a main play maker like adam lallana ?
or is coutinho good enough to be main playmaker
Am I the only one who doesn't understand these stats? 3 goals and 9 assists- what is the 14? It isn't the sum of those two numbers. Same with 4 and 7 then 13.
ReplyDeleteAlso, are those Iniesta stats for 2013-14 and is that why JK has done the 3 seasons before that for Iniesta as opposed to the same time period as Henderson?
but are you not scottish ? so that means you will not like english players
ReplyDeletemaths is archenemy
ReplyDeleteLast season arguably proved that Coutinho is not consistently effective enough across a whole season to be a main playmaker. After his amazing first 6 months, many - myself included - expected to see more progress last season, but it didn't materialise.
ReplyDeleteWithout Coutinho, LFC don't have a dedicated, top quality playmaker, capable of doing a similar job to Coutinho. As such, a player like Lallana is arguably a priority, not only to increase options, but to challenge other attacking players in the squad.
Plus, there are more games next season, so more *effective* players for each position are needed.
Wow. It's my interpretation that your opinion wrote off Joey's with the way you went about it - Claiming he is in denial like your opinion of Henderson's position is some sort of explicit rule. Of course they are differing opinions, you don't have to meet it with 'You are a fan who is in denial' with such a negative connotation surrounding that. But I 'got that' now.
ReplyDeleteReally?
ReplyDeleteThe fact I'm Scottish has no bearing on my judgement of players. Barnes, Beardsley, Aldo, and Rush are four of my favourite players of all time, and none of them are Scots.
ReplyDeleteJust don't go holding your breath hey bro.
ReplyDeletedo you support engalnd in world cup?
ReplyDeletehave you lived most of your life in engalnd or scotland or some other country?
just curios
Coutinho is far from his prime and up to now has shown more than enough to be part of the rebuilding plan at Anfield. Rodgers is busy building a monstrous squad IMO.
ReplyDeleteWell, you opinion that I 'wrote off Joey' is wrong.
ReplyDeleteSorry, it is. using your approach, every opinion that differs from someone else's could be classed as 'writing-off' the other person's view.
I merely stated my view; you are the one projecting some kind of inherent pre-eminence onto my comment.
If I think someone is in denial, I have every right to say that. It is not an insult, and Joey did not take it as such, so why are you?
To posit the idea that someone is 'in denial' is a perfectly valid view to advance.
not if suarze leaves
ReplyDeletewe will go back two seasons
they say no player is bigger then the club well suarze is close i have never seen such a good player ta lfc apart from owen
That is why Rodgers insists on versatile players?
ReplyDeleteWhy is this relevant? No, I do not support England in the World Cup. I support Germany, as I grew up there, and have a an affinity with the country. If Scotland are ever in an international tournament (!), then I support Scotland.
ReplyDeleteThe site isn't about me; it's about LFC and football in general, so please stick to that.
what i am saying suarez is the main reason why lfc are successful without him i doubt rodgesr would still be manager
ReplyDeletelook at sterling and sturridges goals most of them are created by suarez
but you are so cool
ReplyDeleteMystery solved!
ReplyDeleteIf Suarez goes he goes. Most almost had a heart attack when Torres left.
ReplyDeleteReplacing Suarez might be an issue but we have replaced many before which proves that nobody is bigger than the club. End of.
Prove what? What does Fabregas have to do with this? Once again, going off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the thread of the discussion.
ReplyDelete"All attacking central midfielders are, essentially' box-to-box midfielders"
ReplyDeleteMaybe you want to rephrase that?
comparing liverpool torres to suarez
ReplyDeleteis like comparing hesky to ronaldo completly different class
torres depended on gerrard
everyone depends on suarez
sturridge,sterling ,coutinho remember first three games we could only score 1 goal point proven
suarez creates his own goals if you notice he takes all the players on
I don't need to rephrase it. You've just grabbed the wrong end of the stick. As usual.
ReplyDeleteWhen Barca defend, does Fabregas just hang around in the centre-circle and watch the pressure rain down on his team? No. He defends, just like all other attacking midfielders,
The qualitative nature of his defensive contribution is not the issue here, and whether he words as hard as Henderson is irrelevant.
The point is, all attacking midfielders have a dual-role: they attack, and when their team is under pressure, they defend. As such, they are all literally 'box-to-box midfielders'.
Just because Henderson might run 1 mile more per game doesn't change that.
You see, i struggle to see how Fabregas would be more effective for us OVERALL than what Henderson has.
ReplyDeleteI need to be proven wrong.
btw where is gano
ReplyDeletewe need to know who we are signing next ?
I haven't argued that Fabregas would be more effective for LFC than Henderson. I didn't even mention Fabregas in the first place. *shoots self*
ReplyDeletewait,
ReplyDeletei have yet to see a discussion where you two have agreed upon something
argument for the sake of an argument
lol
Yet you state that all "All attacking central midfielders are, essentially' box-to-box midfielders" which I do not agree with.
ReplyDeleteLook at games with him 11 game winning streak and in the games he missed 1 out of 3
ReplyDeleteThis is like talking to the wall. I've explained my thinking re the 'box-to-box' comment three times already.
ReplyDeleteAll attacking midfielders can be classed as 'box-to-box' midfielders for the reasons I've outlined above.
If you disagree with that, then make an argument that focuses on that specific aspect of my comment.
Bringing Fabregas into the discussion (as a comparison to Henderson) is totally irrelevant.
Fabregas also meets my personal definition of a B2B midfielder: When Barca attack, he attacks; when Barca defend; he is back helping the defence.
well essentially they are because when a team is under pressure nobody who has a midfield role should be attacking. even when we played Arsenal like 2 seasons ago in Emirates, Hendo and Suarez scored and we drew 2-2 Suarez play RW, technincally RM and was constantly defending. the only person who at times will not have to defend is the striker, as he will be the target to start the counter, but even at times the striker will dragged into a situation where he is forced to track back or defend. so yes, all attacking midfielders are meant to be from box-to-box but some have more energy than others
ReplyDeleteI will try not to, just think we need two world class attacking signings in same calibre as Gerrard(34) and Suarez(27).
ReplyDeleteE Can(21) is a player we probably could of got last year without champions league football, now we have got that we need to be looking at the best players. Proven class consistant performing quality players at that Level who are better than what we have.
E Can(21) is not better than Henderson(23) Or J Allen(24) at moment so that was a waste of money, I Rakitic(26) is better than both J Allen and J Henderson. How can we improve if B Rodgers is still making the same poor dire mistakes in transfer window.
14 players in since his reign, only 6 have been worthwhile signings. That is diabolical record
If you include links, text-speak, or insults in a comment it will go to moderation.
ReplyDeleteBarcelona want to get rid of him. If you want a false 9 by all means go for Fabregas. If you want a player who is going to walk across a field littered with broken glass then Henderson is your man.
ReplyDeleteoh my gosh if fabregas joins what happens to oscar
ReplyDeleteapparently mourinho is not a fan
40m bid for oscar
mourinhow ell sell to liverpool he gave us moses last year and gave mata to utd
that is why rodgers wants lallana and can
ReplyDeleteluca scannot replicate the energy level of hendo and allen which is evr so important in diamond formation
lucas nice back up to schtevie
Torres was as good as anyone at his best at Liverpool dont ever play down the fact he was amazing.
ReplyDeleteIf Suarez leaves at least the club will have money to get a top class striker and a couple of other positions strengthened on field.
David Luiz went for £50m which is even more bizarre than the fee we paid for Andy Carrol. Abramovich' mafia seems to be doing the trick.
ReplyDeleteby the way jaimie, will there be an end-of-the-season-voting like last year, where we can vote the best games, goals etc?
ReplyDeleteOnce again I do believe that loan signings at a time when we are not in the Champions league shouldn't be considered the same. Our preferred targets were unobtainable. Not saying we couldn't have gotten better players but the likes of Barry and Lukaku wold not have been allowed to come to us. So keeping that in mind short term answers are better than poorer players bought. Less Aspas's on the books.
ReplyDelete6 out of 14 is not the end of the world. Just under 50% and very few for significant fees and by all account wages.
Rakitic is not better than Hendo. Hendo is more useful. Allen is crap. Lucas was very good last year he just doesnt fill the eye. We will get Markovic who is a beast. And the trio will be Markovic, Hendo, Gerrard and as Subs Emre, Lucas, Allen, If we sign Lallana we wont sign Markovic. Shaqiri can be used in the midfield aswell however I think he will be placed on the wings.
ReplyDeleteMight be a bit random but never actually figured out what Sail on Silver Girl, Sail on by had to do with the meaning of
ReplyDeleteBridge Over Troubled Water but damn what a song! Again very random I know...
6 out of 14 is poor be honest Greg. Jamie Carragher has even being saying B Rodgers signings have not been up to grade, but this season he cannot make any mistakes with signings real class quality signings who will hit the ground running straight away
ReplyDeleteWhat Rakitic(26) is a world class centre midfielder, Henderson is not. Rakitic(26) was the best centre midfielder in La Liga last season.
ReplyDeleteHenderson(23) has good mobility, pace, pressing and winning ball back and setting tempo of our game. But as football player Rakitic(26) is twice the player J Henderson(23) is.
Bearing in mind that both Aspas and Luis Alberto were brought in from the Primera Liga, and the fact that with only the league to really go for last season, we were able to get by on little more than our first team, how were they going to break into the first team in their debut season? How many players are of sufficient quality to achieve that? From what I've read and heard, Rodgers seems to be the sort of manager who rewards effort in training. That's all well and good, but sticking to a bunch of mainstays who put in a good training session week in week out only works so far. Next season there will be more games, and as a result Rodgers will have to look beyond the first team and blooding youth. Next season with more game opportunities and presumably some degree of squad rotation necessary, perhaps, if they are not sold or loaned, we could see what they are made of and judge them then.
ReplyDeleteYes, I'll post the categories soon.
ReplyDeleteModric plays in a similar position to Modric? I don't know... I think Modric plays in a different position to Modric, but hey, that's just me.
ReplyDeleteThe bringing in section is pretty solid and relatively realistic targets, I think.
ReplyDeleteI'd be surprised if we got all three of Lallana, Shaqiri, and Markovic. Odds are we'll get one (and I think it will be Shaqiri).
In terms of going out, I have a feeling we'll see one of the three CBs, Johnson, and Aspas be sold. Lucas may be an interesting one. I'd prefer to keep him. But he may want to go since there's a fairly good chance he will be regularly on the bench.
Unfortunately, the wild card in this whole thing is going to be Suarez and whether he stays or goes. Because if he stays, we're sitting pretty. If he goes, we're going to spend a lot of money, and then who knows what this team is going to look like.
Still not sold that Eriksen wanted to come here or that we wanted him that badly.
ReplyDeleteI think Spurs were a very attractive club last year, and were seen moving on up relative to us.
No one envisioned us making such a leap to be contending for a title, including last year's potential transfers.
I agree with you on the surface. We'd have been better buying a £14m player as opposed to 2 £7m players. But I'm not so sure that there were many of those £14m players willing to come here on incentive-laden contracts.
The one guy we could get for that type of money was Sakho, and the reason for that was he wasn't playing at the time (and it could be argued that we overpaid for him).
Alright thanks :)
ReplyDeleteYea I couldn't believe the transfer fee for luiz. 50 mil for a defender who can't defend
ReplyDeleteWhy do you assume that I care about whether people 'take notice'? I don't. And quite how you're in a position to make that kind of statement is anyone's guess.
ReplyDeleteI don't write stuff to fit-in, or ingratiate myself with the fanbase; I write what I think, and if people don't take any notice, that's perfectly fine with me.
Did you say Rakitic is not better than Hendo? Have you watched Rakitic play?
ReplyDeleteJust reading your comments and they are interesting as you and Jaimie make good points. What JK says is clear as if I buy a expensive BMW for the purpose to commute to work but ride my bike to work instead and never use the car that's a waste of money regardless. If the impact of Lallana arriving at LFC ups Hendos game then that's great but I can't see Lallana just being direct competition for Hendo only as he can multiple positions which can threaten the likes of Couthino so that scenario where he will remain on the bench due to Hendos upsurge I cannot see occurring regularly.
ReplyDeleteJamie. Before you where always been anti Henderson. Stop trying to excuse yourself with these kind of of articles. You where wrong about him, just admit it.
ReplyDeleteWhat about hologram like Michael Jackson?...actually I think Aspas is one already...sigh...
ReplyDeleteThat is not a diabolical record, that is a realistic record, if you look in depth at Ferguson's record in the transfer market, or Wenger, or Mourinho, you will see they also have a less then 50% success rate of "worthwhile" signings. But what do you consider worthwhile? If a player is bought, doesn't get into the starting 11, but creates the competition that makes the other players in that position perform better, then this has to be considered worthwhile.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the goal return of the whole team last season, being the third best in Premier League history, only behind Man City and the Ancelotti led Chelsea with 102 and 103 goals respectively, then not having Henderson scoring 10-15 goals with an equal amount of assists is no biggie in my books. Assists are good, but they don't show the whole picture. There were many times that Henderson created goals with his pressing and causing mistakes or by playing a key pass, but not the final pass in a goal, for instance playing a pass in behind the defense to Suarez who centred the ball to Sturridge to score, that happened a lot. Being an attacking midfielder, which I agree, is his best position, isn't necessarily all about assists, it's more about chances created, which he creates plenty of chances.
ReplyDeleteIt's my opinion that at times, the way you state it, even though it may not be your intention, comes across as a bit abrasive and a bit high and mighty. This is not an attack on you, it's just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteSaying this though, Iniesta is 30 and has reached his prime, Henderson is 23 and has yet to reach his prime. And by the way, I'm not necessarily saying you, but a lot of other people use the word "significant" too loosely. As a scientist, the word "significant" to me should only be used when analyses has shown a probability of <0.05 that in this case there is a significant difference. In my experience with data, just because something looks different, it does not mean it's significantly different. And my rant has ended.
ReplyDeleteWhat does this have to do with anyone? I'm sorry, but this is a useless comment.
ReplyDeleteYou are forgetting Sterling in both formations who has proved he is willing to get back and do some defensive work and then start the attacks. Sterling is vitally important for us in both formations.
ReplyDeleteNo I didn't know that :-) I don't follow Brighton at all and I think we can all see Poyet is a bit of character but it still all seemed a bit sudden and shrouded in secrecy. That could very well have something to do with it though :-)
ReplyDeleteSo what is it about?
ReplyDeleteThere is no reason for Suarez to sign for Real Madrid. Firstly, the main reason why he wanted to leave is to play CL, we have CL next season. Secondly, he says he has unfinished business in PL, that is winning the title as well as rectifying his bad boy image. Thirdly, and possibly most importantly, LFC are in a stronger position than at the start of last season when they convinved Suarez to stay, they do not need to sell Suarez. And by the way, if Bale cost Real Madrid 85m, then Suarez, who was the best player in the world this season, will cost more than 100m. In my opinion, if Real Madrid want him that much, they should offer in excess of 150m.
ReplyDeleteI don't get this. One of our main problems last season wasn't our starting 11, it was our squad depth. So what you are saying is we should buy 7 players and sell 9 players? This lessens our squad depth. We are potentially playing as many as 60 games next season, we need a big squad for that, which means keeping Borini, Joe Allen, Lucas Leiva, Luis Alberto. These are players who could have an impact in one of the 4 competitions we are playing in next season.
ReplyDeleteI think Hendo plays in a similar role to Hendo. Similarly Schweinsteiger plays in the same role that Schweinsteiger plays in and Xavi plays in the 'Xavi' role and has a pass completion rate of Xavi.
ReplyDeleteMourinho won't sell to us, yes he gave us Moses, but how did that work out? He also rejected a deadline day bid for Mata from us. He also hijacked our pursuit of Salah. And 40m for Oscar? He is good, but he isn't that good.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course there are exceptions to that rule, Mata for one, which is why Mourinho sold him.
ReplyDeleteThe same was said about Kevin Keegan, Ian Rush, Steve McManaman, Michael Owen, Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, Fernando Torres, and yet when Keegan left, we bought Dalglish, one of our best ever, when Rush left, we bought Aldridge, who was immense, pretty much after we sold each player, we have still remained strong, we might have had a dip for a couple of seasons, but we have bounced back.
ReplyDeleteLucas cannot replicate the energy level of Hendo? Lucas is not the same type of player as Hendo. Lucas might have been bought as an attacking midfielder, but he has since been converted to a defensive midfielder.
ReplyDeleteThat is a diabolical record, most of the players he has brought to club have been not good enough and has not strengthened squad at all. And he has loaned them out. B Rodgers needs to start bringing better players to the club because apart from Coutinho, Sakho and Sturridge. The other players he has brought to club would suit Swansea not us, we are not Swansea. He needs to going for the players that are better than what we currently have to bring in better competition and to keep players on their toes.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but as others have stated Hendo is the legs of the midfield. When I look at how he plays for us he is more of a ball winner or the midfielder who's first to press.
ReplyDeleteHe compares more to mascherano or Essen in terms of his role, although both wher stronger in the tackle neither offered to the goal threat or quality on the ball. Sure he can improve his goal threat but I think that will come as he continues to develop.
Shelvey was better technically and was more of a goal threat but lacked the work rate of Hendo, and it's his this that has allowed him to have the impact he has. Typically if you look at attacking midfielders their defensive contributions are limited lampard being a prime example.
Hendo is not an attacking midfielder, I don't know where you got that from.
ReplyDeleteRegular game time for their respective first teams.
ReplyDeleteDid you not see any of Borini's goals?
it's obvious, Eric: the comparison is due to each individual's ability to maintain a glorious head of hair... hair the likes of which would send tears of shame and envy down the baby-smooth cheeks of Adonis. JK clearly hates magnificent shampoo-commercial-quality hair.
ReplyDeleteI refuse to speculate as to why this is the case...
Bill Murray also always has a smug expression on his face that suggests he knows something you don't. The difference? Bill Murray is loveable. Plus, I'll be willing to wager BM is more skilled on the pitch than is VM.
ReplyDeleteThe key difference is that actually Bill Murray knows many things we don't: the basic plot of Ghostbusters 3, the feeling of punching Chevy Chase, how to remain culturally relevant and beloved across 5 decades and what Bill Murray looks like in the nip.
ReplyDeletethanks for the correction, jaq.
ReplyDeleteI also thought one out of three.
ReplyDeleteI am trying to keep it real regarding Lukas- him or Allen have to go,and everything is going in Allen's favour. He is recent buy, younger, and nobody would pay what we should get for him in order for us to be happy.. Lukas served well for enough years and if we get 7-8 mill, it would be financially a good sale(even though I do not know for how much we bought him..
I do not want t see Agger or Skrtel out, and Sakho leaving would make no sense... Johnson ok, but only if we can find a cheap good rb that would fit in immidiatelly which is going to be tough since we already have to fit in one full back..
Suso looks like leaving, but it is a huge mistake..
Suarez? That nobody knows, but I have a feeling he is staying...