Prior to the close of the January transfer window, Liverpool were reportedy back in the race to sign Tom Ince, who ultimately ended up at Crystal Palace. After the collapse of the Yehven Konoplyanka deal, Ince would've been a useful addition, but his Dad - former Manchester United and LFC midfielder Paul Ince - has revealed why Ince Jr. seemingly rejected a move to Anfield.
On transfer deadline day Sky Sports reported:
"Liverpool have rejoined the race to sign Thomas Ince. The 21-year-old looks set to leave Blackpool after they gave him permission to open talks with a number of Premier League clubs"
When asked last night why Ince didn't sign for Liverpool, Ince Sr. told Sky Sports:
"Thomas is not ready to go to Liverpool yet. Brendan [Rodgers] has done very well there and he does play the kids, but for his progression as a footballer it needed to be a Stoke, a Swansea, a Palace or a Hull at this point. Maybe in two or three years' time that might be a move for him".
Some fans seem to be against the signing of Ince Jr. because of the baggage he brings (i.e. the influence of Paul Ince), but as far as I can tell, Ince Sr., is a positive influence on Ince Jr., and as evidenced by his comment above, seems to give him excellent advice.
Lots of young players are desperate for a massive payday, and sign for top clubs way too early, only to end up rotting on the bench. Jack Rodwell at Manchester City is a prime example of this. Ince Jr., on the other hand, has repeatedly delayed a move to a massive club, and his priority - encouraged by his dad - is clearly football-related, and that's refreshing to see.
Paul Ince - sacked last week by Blackpool - insists that big Premier League clubs will eventually have to pay big bucks to capture the flying winger. He told the BBC last year:
"If you look at Zaha being sold for £15m, then Thomas has to be worth £25m. If you compare the two, Thomas has to be worth much more. The rest of the top scorers in the league are strikers. In terms of potential, he can reach £25m in value"
He has a point about Zaha - another young player who made his move to a big club too quickly - but I honestly can't see any club paying £25m for Ince Jr., either now, or 2-3 years into the future.
On the subject of Ince Sr., - I personally find it somewhat disasteful that he - like other black managers in the game - is seemingly never given a fair chance at management. Ince has managed six clubs so far, and every time, he's never been given more than a year in the job, and is often sacked before a year is out.
The same thing happens to other black managers (John Barnes at Celtic, for example), and in my view, it just shows that latent racism is still rampant in the upper echelons of the game. After all, like everything else, football is run by old men with white hair, so it's hardly surprising.
Author: Jaimie K
On transfer deadline day Sky Sports reported:
"Liverpool have rejoined the race to sign Thomas Ince. The 21-year-old looks set to leave Blackpool after they gave him permission to open talks with a number of Premier League clubs"
When asked last night why Ince didn't sign for Liverpool, Ince Sr. told Sky Sports:
"Thomas is not ready to go to Liverpool yet. Brendan [Rodgers] has done very well there and he does play the kids, but for his progression as a footballer it needed to be a Stoke, a Swansea, a Palace or a Hull at this point. Maybe in two or three years' time that might be a move for him".
Some fans seem to be against the signing of Ince Jr. because of the baggage he brings (i.e. the influence of Paul Ince), but as far as I can tell, Ince Sr., is a positive influence on Ince Jr., and as evidenced by his comment above, seems to give him excellent advice.
Lots of young players are desperate for a massive payday, and sign for top clubs way too early, only to end up rotting on the bench. Jack Rodwell at Manchester City is a prime example of this. Ince Jr., on the other hand, has repeatedly delayed a move to a massive club, and his priority - encouraged by his dad - is clearly football-related, and that's refreshing to see.
Paul Ince - sacked last week by Blackpool - insists that big Premier League clubs will eventually have to pay big bucks to capture the flying winger. He told the BBC last year:
"If you look at Zaha being sold for £15m, then Thomas has to be worth £25m. If you compare the two, Thomas has to be worth much more. The rest of the top scorers in the league are strikers. In terms of potential, he can reach £25m in value"
He has a point about Zaha - another young player who made his move to a big club too quickly - but I honestly can't see any club paying £25m for Ince Jr., either now, or 2-3 years into the future.
On the subject of Ince Sr., - I personally find it somewhat disasteful that he - like other black managers in the game - is seemingly never given a fair chance at management. Ince has managed six clubs so far, and every time, he's never been given more than a year in the job, and is often sacked before a year is out.
The same thing happens to other black managers (John Barnes at Celtic, for example), and in my view, it just shows that latent racism is still rampant in the upper echelons of the game. After all, like everything else, football is run by old men with white hair, so it's hardly surprising.
Author: Jaimie K
The reason Paul Ince is always sacked within a year is because he's a terrible manager, not because he's black. Do your research before making such stupid claims.
ReplyDeletelol, fail. Schoolboy mistake, can you spot it?
ReplyDeleteInce Snr has a rep of greed amongst the fans, but from what I see he's just a concerned dad.
ReplyDeleteAs for the black manager thing, didn't he lose 9 games on the trot, so black or white your neck is on the line! In general I agree it's harder to break into the old boy's network!
Institutional racism definitely exists in football, but Paul Ince isn't an example of that. If anything he has probably been given more chances due to the 'novelty' of his being black. I certainly don't think another manager would have made the jump to Blackburn the way he did. Obviously the fact that he had an illustrious playing career is a factor (probably a larger one) but the fact that having a black manager causes such a stir (ironically due to the absence of black managers at the top level, thanks to institutional racism), which chairmen invariably enjoy.
ReplyDeleteThat said, whilst I can't speak to his entire career, his sackings at Blackburn and in particular at Blackpool were justified. At Blackpool he engendered a quite nasty, unprofessional spirit in his players and his supposed attempt to engineer his son's move to Monaco at Blackpool's expense is an abuse of power.
Certainly racism exists in all walks of life, but two very poor choices of people to expose this. Paul Ince has been given plenty of opportunities and is simply not good enough, he falls out with people and creates a negative atmosphere at clubs. At the end of the day you are judged on results and neither him nor barnes were successful. Barnes has more to argue against but he lost 8 games in 29 and played negative football in a two team league.
ReplyDeleteI dunno if he'll ever be worth £25m either but it seems perfectly possible if he continues to develop as he has so far. He is obviously not worth that yet but in time who knows.
ReplyDeleteI would have thought that if institutionalised racism was at play Paul Ince would not have been offered the jobs he has. That does not mean it does not exist more generally just that it does not seem to be a key factor in his case
I love the words "institutional racism" mate. It's greater and more entrenched than the everyday racism.
ReplyDeleteCan't see Tom Ince coming back as we are well covered on the wings throughout the age-groups at Liverpool, as for Paul Ince maybe he just isn't a very good manager....................????
ReplyDeleteBe careful about calling poor performance 'racism.' You will lose control of the conversation and 'racism' will never be a worthwhile conversation again because it will always been seen as the excuse that trumps all truth.
ReplyDeleteWise dad, not the wisest manager.
ReplyDeleteHang on ... Ince Snr was sacked cos he lost 9 on the trot, left training to his fitness coach, was openly criticised by his own players (before and after he left) disappeared off on a training scheme for his UEFA badge when the chairman needed him to discuss recruitment - which is saying a lot for Oyston to even want to talk about recruitment. And then theres the story of him moving his son to Monaco with huge cost implications for his employers.... Its nothing to do with his colour... hes just a not a very good manager.
ReplyDeleteThere certainly is racism in the boardrooms of football clubs, not only in the UK but around the world. The racism prevalent in certain important football-playing countries I think plays a role in dissuading clubs in less backward cultures from hiring black managers for fear that this will make clubs less likely to deal with them. Which is not exactly racism, but is a failure of anti-racism. You're completely right Jaimie, it's depressing. Paul Ince is still a terrible manager though!
ReplyDeleteDon't read this tripe... he can't even get his current club right. Get your facts right
ReplyDeleteInce Snr ruined Ince Jnr's career. Paul was the one who insisted Tom should leave LFC when Kenny told him to stay. Then Rodgers tried to convince Tom to come back but his father got involved again.
ReplyDeleteTom's chance of playing for LFC again is now over. Lessons learnt for the youngster.
I think more likely would be that Ince didn't sign for us because we didn't want him.
ReplyDeleteInce had a 28.57 win % at Blackpool which is very poor. Surely their board are expecting better than that? Doubt his sacking had anything to do with the colour of his skin.
ReplyDeleteNot sure I agree with this. He was hardly making waves at Liverpool. He wasn't even our most fancied youth player. I think he absolutely made the right move for his career.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it is a necessary distinction. I doubt the people in the various annals of power are saying "don't employ non-whites", but there is a reluctance that comes from a deeper, more covert place.
ReplyDeleteIt can be pernicious, but it can just as easily be the case of perfectly good people who've failed to examine certain falsehoods and stereotypes that exist in society, that they've (perhaps unwittingly) accepted.
The people in positions of power, especially the so-called guardians of the game (I'm looking at you FA) need to be challenged, so they make an effort to help people from different backgrounds enter the upper echelons of the game rather than employing the usual old, white, company men. If the people who are supposed to be the moral compass of the game don't make any kind of effort how can we expect the rest of the people in the game to follow suit?
I'm not suggesting favouritism, I'm very much in favour of a meritocracy, but with their being no real precedent for certain groups (I include women in this), sometimes a leg up is needed. It can only be for the good of the game to have richer, more diverse perspective, at all levels.
I think the Rooney rule is a good idea. It would be nothing more than a nuisance and an arbitrary step for bigger clubs, but it could make a big difference at the lower leagues, I think.
Comolli mentioned that they had made like 5 offers to keep Ince at LFC so that suggest that the youngster was highly regarded. Tom needs to tell his father to piss off and let him get on with career.
ReplyDeleteRuined his career? What nonsense. How exactly is Ince Jr's career 'ruined'? He's played a hell of a lot more than most young players his age, and now he's moved to a PL club. And how do you know Paul Ince 'insisted' Tom should leave, and that he 'got involved again' when Rodgers tried to bring Ince back? Were you there? Did Brendan Rodgers tell you that?!
ReplyDeleteInce Jr.s chance of playing for LFC is not over. He is young, and the opportunity could arise again in the future.
I disagree. IMO, it just shows that latent racism is prevalent in football. For example, Ince got sacked by text message by Blackpool. Disgraceful lack of respect. Why would you treat a person in such a manner?
ReplyDeleteMaybe it's just a case that they aren't very good at managing football clubs. I mean if Blackpool were fighting for promotion or losing through bad luck and he got the chop, maybe you could call foul play and racism. But the managerial records of both Barnes and ince is poor, hence they were sacked. I would agree that there is a lack of faith shown towards black managers and this is reflected by the lack of them. But Barnes and ince are just not good enough and that would be true if they were black or white.
ReplyDeleteCome on Jamie, you can't expect a responsible employer to give a managerial position to someone expecting failure, i believe both Barnes & Ince were employed on good faith but just didn't cut the mustard
ReplyDeleteCan't believe people think Ince brings 'baggage' from his father. What f**king baggage!? Why does getting sacked from a coaching job mean you bring baggage? Does Kenny bring baggage to Liverpool because he was sacked 2 years ago?
ReplyDeleteIf you were truly racist you would not hire a black manager in the first place so being called a racist for firing him is garbage.
ReplyDeleteIt had nothing to do with Ince being black but Oyston being a coward
ReplyDeleteNothing Oyston does surprises me.
With respect, you appear to be irredeemably naive.
ReplyDeleteNaive well i have seen racism at its best i am not European and it happens everywhere but to presume that because there are no top black managers is a racial thing is a bit harsh.
ReplyDeleteThere is very few great white runners at present are we to presume there is racial prejudice there too?
Naive in what respect we had a white Australia policy here for decades i have seen plenty of racism.
ReplyDeleteAm i to assume Karl Oysten who made a fortune last time Blackpool was in the EPL would put racism ahead of greed?
I don't think people are saying the baggage comes from Ince's sacking(s) but from the fact he always sticks his oar in.
ReplyDeleteHe seems to be very involved with the younger Ince's career choices. Whether or not that is a good thing is debatable.
I've seen people say things like:
ReplyDelete"Nooooo way! We don't want Paul Ince!"