Liverpool narrowly avoided defeat at Anfield yesterday as a result of a game-saving penalty 'won' by Reds striker Luis Suarez. Steven Gerrard duly dispatched the spot-kick, but did Suarez dive to gain an advantage?
First, Suarez should be congratulated for his exemplary on-field behaviour this season.
For the most part, he's cut out the cynical gamesmanship, and as he claimed in a recent interview, he appears to be a 'changed man'.
Suarez has let his football do the talking, and like most LFC fans - or simply fans of beautiful football - I absolutely love watching the Uruguayan play, and some of the goals he's scored this season are out of this world.
However, when the chips are down for Liverpool, Suarez seems to revert to type, and in my view, he dived to win a penalty against Aston Villa.
![luis suarez penalty incident WATCH Did Liverpool Striker Luis Suarez Dive to Win a Penalty Against Villa? [GIF]](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/blogger_img_proxy/AEn0k_tB3Xw9I0YPCwlPmw-LBnwXMa5wTCAXiQIf6n0fqA8vD5699Zvcg5ngIlRyZnyocfu5t-TyCRuRtW8XYPSUme3K6WUYYbnKhpP_EckTpcFrkujb05NqUTSjZ1Ze6JsNRfH_GpYXlm2sjk1zT3VFW1NoeJBtl7Z95vLq=s0-d "luis-suarez-penalty-incident")
Having viewed the incident from multiple angles, there's clear no significant contact between Guzan and Suarez, and certainly not enough to force the Uruguayan to hit the deck with such theatricality.
When Suarez 'falls', he clearly lurches to the left of his running position (See second image). How exactly does he end up over there when there's no contact pushing him that direction? It would be great if someone could explain that (!)
Compare this incident to the penalty won by Raheem Sterling last week:
There is very clear contact here. Marc Wilson nudges Sterling, whose momentum is clearly - and unfairly - disrupted, causing him to go down. Where is the same type of contact in the Suarez incident above?
Once again, it's the cynical 'trailing leg' penalty, where the striker leaves his leg in, hoping to make contact with goalkeeper. The only difference here is Suarez mistimes it, and doesn't even make contact with Guzan. It's an anticipatory dive, and like all deliberate attempts to con the referee, it's a disgrace (IMO).
Who cares though, right? As long as LFC gained an advantage.
The irony is that if, say, Benteke, and perpetrated a similar dive for Villa, LFC fans would be foaming at the mouth about the injustice of it all, and citing refereeing incompetence etc. I can never take satisfaction from points won due to probable gamesmanship. I'd rather LFC lost fairly than won or drew unfairly, but that's just me.
What makes it worse is that Rodgers, once again, refuses to countenance the possibility that Suarez may have dived. After the game, he emphatically declared that it a 'clear-cut penalty', yet last week, Rodgers was only too willing to throw Sterling under a bus by claiming that his penalty was 'soft'.
The only slight upside is that this is (arguably) the first time this season that Suarez has dived to win a penalty. Jose Mourinho tried his level best to convince everyone that he dived against Chelsea, but that's just nonsense. Eto'o clearly took him out with a cynical challenge.
Hopefully, Suarez will now revert back to wowing everyone with his genius football skills, and leave the diving where it belongs: in the past.
NOTE: Disagree by all means, but do so in a civil manner. Anyone who snipes/hurls insults will be permanently banned. That also applies to comments about Suarez - do not personally insult him (or any other player)
Author: Jaimie K
First, Suarez should be congratulated for his exemplary on-field behaviour this season.
For the most part, he's cut out the cynical gamesmanship, and as he claimed in a recent interview, he appears to be a 'changed man'.
Suarez has let his football do the talking, and like most LFC fans - or simply fans of beautiful football - I absolutely love watching the Uruguayan play, and some of the goals he's scored this season are out of this world.
However, when the chips are down for Liverpool, Suarez seems to revert to type, and in my view, he dived to win a penalty against Aston Villa.
Having viewed the incident from multiple angles, there's clear no significant contact between Guzan and Suarez, and certainly not enough to force the Uruguayan to hit the deck with such theatricality.
When Suarez 'falls', he clearly lurches to the left of his running position (See second image). How exactly does he end up over there when there's no contact pushing him that direction? It would be great if someone could explain that (!)
Compare this incident to the penalty won by Raheem Sterling last week:
There is very clear contact here. Marc Wilson nudges Sterling, whose momentum is clearly - and unfairly - disrupted, causing him to go down. Where is the same type of contact in the Suarez incident above?
Once again, it's the cynical 'trailing leg' penalty, where the striker leaves his leg in, hoping to make contact with goalkeeper. The only difference here is Suarez mistimes it, and doesn't even make contact with Guzan. It's an anticipatory dive, and like all deliberate attempts to con the referee, it's a disgrace (IMO).
Who cares though, right? As long as LFC gained an advantage.
The irony is that if, say, Benteke, and perpetrated a similar dive for Villa, LFC fans would be foaming at the mouth about the injustice of it all, and citing refereeing incompetence etc. I can never take satisfaction from points won due to probable gamesmanship. I'd rather LFC lost fairly than won or drew unfairly, but that's just me.
What makes it worse is that Rodgers, once again, refuses to countenance the possibility that Suarez may have dived. After the game, he emphatically declared that it a 'clear-cut penalty', yet last week, Rodgers was only too willing to throw Sterling under a bus by claiming that his penalty was 'soft'.
The only slight upside is that this is (arguably) the first time this season that Suarez has dived to win a penalty. Jose Mourinho tried his level best to convince everyone that he dived against Chelsea, but that's just nonsense. Eto'o clearly took him out with a cynical challenge.
Hopefully, Suarez will now revert back to wowing everyone with his genius football skills, and leave the diving where it belongs: in the past.
survey software
NOTE: Disagree by all means, but do so in a civil manner. Anyone who snipes/hurls insults will be permanently banned. That also applies to comments about Suarez - do not personally insult him (or any other player)
Author: Jaimie K
Its not really that obvious. Very close to call.
ReplyDelete100% dive, dirty rotten cheat but hey thats littlepool, theyve always been a dirty bunch of useless cnuts who can only win by cheating. the fans, the manager and the player need to take a big luck at themselves, dirty fuckng bindipping pikies. The problem is the team is as team of scumbags but the manager and fans are too. You can't teach a bunch of heroin addicts to work in an office, same as you can't teach scousers what is good football and what is just filthy dirty cheating pikie behaviour. Nuke the whole City I say. No one would miss it.
ReplyDeleteI know it's probably not the right way to look at it but we have had clear penalties denied and this is just a decision that was given.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say that this is a dive, to me, it's an exaggerated fall but there is minimal contact and many people say now that when there's enough contact they should play for a foul.
Nice to see an unbiased article. Well done
ReplyDeleteSuarez did not dive, He got to the ball before the GK. GK came out like a tank without making any contact of ball, Suarez is attacker he just had to make sure he made contact on ball before challenge came in, he got to ball before Guzan. There was minimal contact from Guzan on Suarez, but there was contact and it was a penalty simple
ReplyDeletei vote YES...is a very close call and in split sec ref and lineman had to be made the decision base on feeling i bet..
ReplyDeleteBut i oso have to mention that Suarez get elbow from "villain" should be a red card as well
IMO your wrong jaimie. Suarez tried to win the penalty but he never dived. come on cut the guy some slack, do you expect him to jump over the keeper, he avoid the keepers tackle but there was definately some contact to take him down, he never dived, it was very intelligent. Just like sterling, he knew nothing was on and instead tried to win a penalty. Sterling is very strong but IMO he could have stayed up. but football is a game where you must win at all costs, so he used his skill to beat his man and rather took the tackle. Suarez would have lobbed the keeper if it was possible but it wernt so he used his skill like Sterling to beat his man and win the penalty. this is football and not a clear dive like ashley young.
ReplyDeleteyou adding fuel to diving accusations is not helping LFC jaimie. it was not a blatant dive. and why dont you talk of the issues when Suarez was elbowed and kneed in the leg by Villa defenders.
you see you Jaimie i think you love Luis Suarez very much but you try to be too fair. you want every single football rule to be obeyed and cant overlook certain things. you made this article to make it fair to Villa good work against us,
yesterdays result was very dissapointing but we just have look forward. we are now 8points behind the leaders and must win EVERY single game from now until the end of the season starting with Bournemouth and Everton. Suarez is going to be crucial in this.
The keeper was foolish to rush out like that, Suarez was always going let the contact occur before going down...................no dive and yes it was a penalty!!!
ReplyDeleteWith every respect most renowned commentators have stated it was a penalty whilst people such as Stan Collymore have said it wasn't. The simple question that some seem incapable of asking themselves when it comes to Suarez is "was there contact?"...YES, nobody flicks their leg inside and to the side without contact. Was it inadvertent? Probably, but it doesn't matter, it is a penalty, end of. Would I have been angry if that decision had gone against us? Yes, most probably, but that doesn't make it a wrong decision.
ReplyDeletehttps://twitter.com/RobbieSavage8/status/424684002209828864/photo/1
ReplyDeleteperfect. if it werent a penalty i bet Jaimie would be saying it was a penalty
ReplyDeleteHow does that image show contact with Suarez? Also, how does Suarez end up about 10 feet to the left of Guzan?
ReplyDeleteIt was a clumsy effort by Guzan and maybe the clown will learn from that one.
ReplyDeleteYou fail to mention also the handball that could have been given.
Many say the good and bad are evened out over a season well i think Liverpool are still owed a few by the refsa none the less Villa were stiff.
Jaimie dude, can't you see? The GK's forearm is clearly going into his leg!
ReplyDeleteWhy should I mention the handball in an article about one specific incident?
ReplyDeleteWe just see it differently. Let's agree to disagree :-)
ReplyDeleteOn the super slow motion it was a dive. But at real time its hard to tell. A dive none-the-less, but I can see why the ref gave it
ReplyDeleteOh Jamie did you examine the footage of Suarez being deliberately elbowed on the head ( a sure sending off offence ) no ! I though not. also had Suarez stayed on his feet he would have kept that ball in even though he was going away from goal.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually confused by how you're seeing it though. There is clearly no separation between the red and the yellow in that picture. If anything, some bits of both colours are actually mixed together, clearly showing that there was contact.
ReplyDeleteYou haven't always been the best at analysing still shot images! I remember after when we lost to utd 2-1 at home last year, you thought Johnson committed a foul on Valencia for that penalty, because you confused a black shadow on Valencia's shirt for Johnson's hand, hahaha.
Sorry but I beg to differ! Dive no penalty yes!
ReplyDeleteThat's 4pts from a possible 6pts in our last 2 games, last season we lost both and got zero pts...................not great performances but we got the pts!!!!.
ReplyDeleteVilla fan here - and I'm more concerned with the way we played - in the first half, dominated and second half, typical Villa - defended well. It's a game we could have won comfortably by half time. But give Rogers his due in the - he took Gerrard out of a position where he was being made to look like a pub player - into one where he looked the world class player he is. Had Lucas stayed on you would probably have won. Allen's appearance actually "evened up" the midfield again.
ReplyDeleteSuarez? There was the slightest of contacts - but Guzan was stupid to come charging out like that. Was he touched enough to bring him down - even at that speed? No, of course not. Had he just gone round Guzan on the centre spot, leaving a simple tap in - would he have tumbled. No, he'd have taken the goal.
Unfortunately in this day and age it's all you have to do to get a penalty. Suarez is world class. We all admire him as arguably the best striker in the world. Unfortunately his gamesmanship, and cheating will never endear him to the rest of us - unless by some fluke he ends up at Villa Park that is - but what a player. He has turned gamesmanship into an art form!
And at the risk of upsetting you reds, all us Villa fans know that if Liverpool ever need a goal after the 75th minute, then Steven Gerrard does a wonderful impression of Tom Daley without the speedos! In the box preferably but never any more than 25 yards from goal.- and always central
Its great to see a Liverpool team that has true title potential and I hope they get one for Gerrard's sake within the next season or two - but keeping up with Man City will be a tough one!
A DESERVED point at Anfield rather than a fluke - no complaints from most of us Villa fans!
I think it was a pen and full marks to ref for having courage to rule in Luis 's favour . Prob tide is turning now for Luis - he has been on the receiving end of some vicious stuff recently that other refs have let go and as you say Jamie his behaviour has been exemplary
ReplyDeleteSuarez actually ends up way ahead of the ball when he goes down (see your own footage) so he would have got to it, in those situations we all know how hard he tries I believe if he could have he would have, so he was brought down, you only have to look at cricket catches to see how the camera does not tell all.
ReplyDeleteYet your name is Kopite...
ReplyDeleteWas there contact in the area (however slight)? Yes, there was. Therefore, in strict accordance with the rules, its a penalty and not a dive. Ergo, Suarez did NOT cheat!
ReplyDeleteHowever, he did go down very, very, easily, and I would have been extremely unhappy if Benteke had been awarded a penalty in similar circumstances.
Does that make me a hypocrite? Yes, absolutely! But that's what being a football fan is all about - letting, passion, hope and righteous indignation overrule all sense of balance and rational logic! If we football fans didn't feel like that, then quite frankly, as the world's most popular spectator sport, football wouldn't exist.
I don't condone diving - deliberately trying to con the ref that there has been contact when there hasn't - and strongly think that retrospective bans should be introduced!
Jaimie.K>>>>>>>>>>GFY!!!
ReplyDeleteWait untill he does it aginst england in the world cup and lets see what people think then, best forward in the world at the moment its a shame that this kind of brinkmanship is now an accepted aspect of the modern game.
ReplyDeletewell played fella. i think you lot deserved your goals for the fact you should have had 2 goals from gabby and one of your defenders. bentekes goal was very much down to a mistake of mingolet, mistake god knows in the past weeks. and your first you exucuted a counter when Glen johnson was caught out of position. agbhonlahor is quality and had he not got injured maybe villa would have got the third. to imagine being 4-0 down to villa at home in the first half. that would be a nightmare. tbh we cant complain too much neither, its just extremely dissapointing because its dented not just our title hopes but our top 4 hopes too. we got crucial games against Everton and Arsenal and we need 3points but it seems that the noise and atmosphere in Anfield seems to make the opposition turnup.
ReplyDeleteNot trying to defend suarez but for me it was a clear one, if the ref gave it to sterling last week, surely he had to give it yesterday, no dive for me at all.
ReplyDeleteOf course it was a pen. He won it cleverly yes and we should be giving him praise for this rather than criticism. I think your bias towards him affects your judgement, hence if it had been Suarez not Sterling last week your viewpoint would be different. What did you actually want Suarez to do yesterday, jump over the keeper who had recklessly rushed at his feet? Too much attention again just because its Suarez.
ReplyDelete100% dive, are you lot fucking stupid???? the little rat didnt even get touched and if you call that a peno you'd be better off finding another sport. cheating wankers like suarez, littlepool & that knacker manager rogers should be banned forever. cheating wankers.
ReplyDeleteWe are not the only ground with a Kop you know!
ReplyDeleteJaimie K>>>>>GFY!!!
ReplyDeleteHey guys
ReplyDeleteSo I'm a villa fan (friendly I swear!). I was interested to see what you guys thought of this incident. To be honest when I first saw the reply I thought penalty, but I've been revising my view of what a penalty is over the last 24 hours watching it more and MOTD etc.
I agree with u all, there was contact, but can I ask you guys, is contact enough? Do you guys remember the Chelsea v West Brom game earlier this season - there was more contact there, but everyone (apart from jose) was in agreement it was no way a penalty. There is pushing and shoving in the box on every corner, but that's fine? So can I ask you guys, since when is contact "enough"?
I'm not being antagonistic and this isn't really about suarez, liverpool or villa, just a view of the game with a great example of my point in front of us, but if we are at the point where contact is enough, are we at the point where defenders are going to be running away from attackers for fear of being touched and having a penalty awarded against them?
I'd appreciate your thoughts from the other side of the fence?
we should be talking about a useless keeper where crosses (and weak shots) are concerned, Reina who was also poor in this area would have been hammered for these very regular schoolboy errors. teams are going to continue to play on this weakness - get Jones in, he is better in the air than either Reina or Mingolet. Toure is not up to it, Sissoko is a breath of fresh air miles better than the other left backs we have. he was involved in play more than any on the pitch yesterday - fact. 90% of it good.
ReplyDeleteFirstly can I say Villa are by far the best team to play at Anfield this season, We couldn't cope in the first half but we did well after the break. As for the penalty Suarez did nothing wrong at all, he was battered at times by the Villa defenders but he did not dive at all.
ReplyDeleteit better be in the first ten minutes if its late he will already have scored three.
ReplyDeleteSissoko has been a breath of fresh air for Newcastle. Unfortunately, Cissokho has been absolutely rubbish for us.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about any other did he, didn't he moment, just the incident this topic is about. I'm talking about Strikers in general "looking for contact" and going down as soon as they feel contact, whether or not that contact was enough to put them off balance, let alone bring them down?
ReplyDeleteI think we all agree that Suarez wasn't trying to score, he was trying to win a penalty. We all agree he planned to lure Guzan into clattering him over, but when the keeper doesn't clatter him, and that gradation of contact decreases, at what point does the striker have a moral obligation to change his game plan? Are defenders now no longer allowed to make contact with a defender, they need to get out of their way and let them have an open goal?
simply look at the footage Suarez is ahead of the ball when he goes down, he rescues the ball every week in harder situations so he could have got it and if you know Suarez you know he would have wanted to score - he had to have been brought down. but the Villa guy with the elbow stuck in Suarez head is not mentioned. Villa were grwat in the first half makes you wonder why they were so up for Liverpool and yet laid down the first half at home to Arsenal.
ReplyDeleteBob you can tell a c from an s but you have no idea about an attacking left back you are probably one of those who idolised the totally useless Risse, were happy with Dossena and think Flannagan is good enough. Toure was the problem yesterday and that useless schoolboy goalkeeper. no more excuses for him please.
ReplyDeleteHas everyone forgotten Collymore is a Villa fan - hardly unbiased comment.
ReplyDeleteJamie please get some WD40 for the negative button on your personal posts.
ReplyDeleteI was surprised myself, we never come out of the blocks, I think Benteke ending the goal dry spell was perhaps something to do with it. I do agree Guzan was asking for it, I just think Suarez had decided he was going down before there was contact, and even though I don't think there was nearly enough contact to warrant going down, his mind was already made up. The problem for me lies with strikers (not just suarez) looking to win penalties in some circumstances rather than a penalty being a second choice bi-product of a genuine attempt on goal gone wrong.
ReplyDeleteIt's not just this type, also when defenders are being manhandled for 20 yards of running at goal, but only when they step over the line into the box they conveniently lose their balance. You should be as strong outside the box as inside the box, and if you're not, then you were "looking for it". So ask yourself, with that amount of contact on the half way line, would Suarez have gone down?
Hugely predictable response from JK.
ReplyDeleteThe analysis has shown one or maybe even two points of contact. the first with Guzan's foot hitting Suarez' knee and the second from part of his right arm as shown in the picture.
if the keeper dives in front of a forward and makes NO contact with the ball and makes contact with the player, then it's a penalty. The players does not have to ignore the disadvantage that the keeper has placed him under by Guzan diving recklessly without a chance of getting the ball.
We see this ALL THE TIME. A defender is facing his own goal often running towards the corner flag with an attacker hot on his heels. He slows down abruptly. If the attacker makes ANY kind of contact, however slight, the defender falls over, and gets a free kick. NOBODY accuses the defender of diving. How is that ANY different to the Suarez penalty?
JK -We will no doubt end up having to disagree on this , so be it. But can anyone explain why fans never cause such uproar when defenders do exactly the same?
No, not a dive. Contact might have been very minimal, but what the GIFS don't show is how at live speed how much momentum both Suarez and Guzan had. Guzan was nowhere near the ball - Suarez perhaps could have continued on his feet, but doing, he would risk being clipped, stepping on Guzan's head, hand, or elsewhere - given the circumstances, lifting his legs up and out of the way of Guzan was the best decision. Wasn't sending off worthy, but was a penalty, Guzan doesn't get the ball, and is reckless going into Suarez.
ReplyDeleteits a very clear pen !!
ReplyDeletehe moved smartly to push guzan to attack him
hazard do the same to win foul or pen
neymar is the same thing
that for me isnt a dive .. what A.young do is a dive
suarez did dived in the past but thats clearly not a dive
Cissokho was clearly clueless when in possession, and looked panicky with the ball, and made some hilariously poor attempts at getting to the byline. He is nowhere as good as Enrique, and Enrique is nowhere as good as we require going forward
ReplyDeleteMy mistake. Cissokho is the prototype for quality attacking full backs. If only we had another like him on the right.
ReplyDeleteMakes no sense. There was, if any, minimal contact. Does contact with a shirt count for a penalty. It's clear dive. The article makes it clear, he's holding his trailing leg to draw contact and misses! Further, look at what he does with his forward leg. Tell me that isn't simulation. The theatrics are amazing.
ReplyDeleteSo there's clear disagreement and there always will be. The ref called it, Gerrard made it 2-2. Plenty of time left in the game for either side to win the game. That Liverpool did not despite creating the chances to do so is the real shame of it all.
ReplyDeleteNo - but Anfield is certainly an intimidating place to play - and has been for 50 years. Villa Park also has plenty of atmosphere - it's just that we haven't had too much to get worked up about for a long time.Villa were outpassed by Arsenal in the first half last week but second half had them on the rack and were unlucky not to get something out of the game.
ReplyDeleteThink the problem was you weren't set up for the counter attack and pure pace of Villa. Maybe there was a bit of complacency on your part too - having outclassed us at Villa Park earlier in the season. And the normally tactically inept Lambert got it spot on yesterday. As you say, maybe the atmosphere makes the opposition turn up.
Who knows? Give us our day in the sun in the knowledge that if we could change our allegience most of us would rather be watching Liverpool every week and not turning up to watch mediocre players losing to equally mediocre teams at Villa Park every week.
Trouble is, as the saying goes, you can change your wife, your house, your job - but you can't change your football team!
Did Guzan win the ball? Did Suarez get to ball first? Yes, Did Guzan come out like a tank and have control of his momentum? NO
ReplyDeleteIts called being an intelligent footballer, he done his job he got to ball before the GK touched him and he won a penalty. He was looking for the penalty, Guzan obliged with the rash decision to come flying out like a Tank.
So it was a penalty, he got and won ball before GK, he felt contact and went down. Its a penalty
Once Suarez got to the ball first and with the keeper committed, there was only going to be one outcome, because it was Suarez it's a big issue. I am more concerned about the formation, tactics, our back four and If Gerrard should play DM, plus our transfer policy.
ReplyDeletePlease don't misinterpret my article. In my view, Johnson fouled Valencia. In this instance, given the angle of the photo, of course it looks like there's contact, but moving images are far more conclusive, and in the two vids above, where is the contact.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you haven't explained what caused Suarez to lurch 10 feet to the left. How on earth is is possible for Guzan to cause that dramatic lunge? Suarez left his leg in, and anticipating contact, he dived to the left.
If it was Suarez last week, I wouldn't argued exactly the same as there was definite contact. I defended Suarez against Mourinho comments a coupe of weeks (as noted again in this article) - if my judgement was affected, I wouldn't jumped on Mourinho's comments and stuck the knife in.
ReplyDeleteAs is usually the case, I have a different view to most on Suarez, and because I don't agree with you - or the group - I must have some kind of problem.
Your argument is typical of the groupthink mentality: accuse anyone who doesn't conform to the group view of being biased/poor judgement etc.
Remind me, what does Suarez being elbowed have to do with this incident?
ReplyDeleteBravo. You're banned :-)
ReplyDeleteBet you've been waiting for this all season, eh, Jaimie????!!!
ReplyDeleteAlan Smith said there was 'minimal' contact, which is still contact. And if there is contact and Guzan doesn't touch the ball, then it's a pen.
Your "evidence" is not obvious at all. I was at the game, and I sit in the Kemlyn level with the penalty spot, and I couldn't tell.
Danny Murphy had to look at it 10 times before he said it was a pen. I was dreading watching MOTD, but Shearer and Lineker both agreed it was a pen.
In fact the only people who say it DEFINITELY wasn't a pen are you, Collymore and some bitter Chelsea troll who phoned up Talksport and who clearly has still to get over Luis Garcia.......
I'd much rather have an article on why it's been obvious since October that we are unable to defend, yet this fundamental point has still to be addressed by the manager. We have the best forward line in the League, but what's the point when we have to score more than 2 goals EVERY game to get the points????!!
I moaned about this last week and got the usual glib, "Oh well, we'll just have to keep scoring more than they do," comments. Well, yesterday we couldn't.
And it's going to cost us.
And his use of the word "robbed". He doesn't like being stereotyped, but he's happy to do it to others.
ReplyDeleteI can't remember us creating much after the pen to be honest, apart from a great save from Hendo and a free kick from Suarez.
ReplyDeleteIt should have been like the Alamo.
So what you're saying is you don't have a mind of your own, and rely on pundits to shape your opinion on things.
ReplyDeleteGood for you. I think I'll just stick to making my own mind up. I don't need pundits etc to tell me how to think.
The fact is Suarez took a dive to win the penalty. His stupid grin as he sat there afterwards sums it all up. He may not have bitten Guzan but a leopard does not change its spots. A cheat and a con man now and always.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm saying is that I couldn't tell from 15 yards away and that there is still no conclusive proof it was a DIVE even now.
ReplyDeleteLove it when you get pompous. How's yours and Brendon Rosgers' "Heartening sign of attacking intent" working out........?
Cissoko gives us an outlet never hides is always positive it is nit his fault if players cant find him when he makes his runs which anyway open up space for others this lad is great the best left back for years not given I thousandeth of the benefit of doubt Mingolet gets, Kelly by the way is easily the best right back at Liverpool
ReplyDeleteChange those grapes for some less sour ones mate.
ReplyDeleteI've been a staunch Suarez defender as evidenced by my time on this site... I think he's held to a different standard than most other players because of his reputation. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt often, and rightfully so because of previous transgressions.
ReplyDeleteIn this particular case, I've watched the video over and over again and I can't see clear contact. There may have been some minimal contact there, but I can't see it.
If there was minimal contact then it's a penalty, simply put. With the speed that both players were running at each other, any amount of contact no matter how great or small can have a significant impact.
However, I can't see the contact. Hence, it's a dive.
Yes, because referees never make mistakes, and never give decisions without clear cut evidence (!)
ReplyDeletesuarez was looking for it, but the keeper slid in. any striker for any club would do what suarez did....as rafa would say, that is a "fact". we should have had one earlier for handball, so it evened itself out.
ReplyDeleteOr just a thought ........ the keeper was being clever second guessing Luis would go down and be carded for diving ;-)
ReplyDeleteit was a dive. if he was playing rugby and he got clipped like that on his way to scoring a try he'd still be on his feet.
ReplyDeleteYou aren't reading what I've said. When did I insist there was contact???
ReplyDeleteI said there is no clear cut evidence either way, but the ref saw something that convinced HIM.
I was more upset about the knee up the back of the leg he got! you see that?
ReplyDeleteOr maybe the keeper does touch him and has a moan to save getting sent off himself?
ReplyDeleteWhich forced him to walk through the rest of the game.
ReplyDeleteI was just about to write "are you people out of your minds!?" then I realized that I am commenting on a site called "liverpool-kop". Just look at those GIFs. The keeper doesn't even TOUCH Suarez.
ReplyDeleteyep, it;s only nasty old suarez that would have done that in that position. bad boy, i mean, every striker at every other club is mr. squeaky clean, never gone looking for any decisions, never moans at referees when thy clearly know they are trying to con an official to gain an advantage.......................aren't they!?!?!?!?
ReplyDeleteTrotting out the same tired excuses I see :-) Poor little Suarez; always the victim; refereeing conspiracies and bla bla blah. What does the conduct of other players have to do with this particular incident?
ReplyDeleteSo you have to win the ball, or else it is a penalty? What ridiculous logic. The only contact (if any at all) was because Suarez intentionally dragged his foot in an attempt to draw contact and then fell down with his other foot. All of this is clear as day in the video. Those LFC supporters are grasping at straws with this "his foot touched Guzan!" contact does not equal penalty. I can't believe this needs to be explained.
ReplyDeleteon a more general note: this is a sad state of affairs where goading the referee is being defended. We ought to be doing everything possible to get it out of the game.
not at all, i just think because it is suarez, doing what any other striker at any other club would do, he is hounded more than is necessary. if the same thing happens next week between a different striker at different club, you will not see the same over reaction. if any other strikers, anywhere, have never done exactly the same thing, then i will apologise. hell will freeze before that can be ratified. it's football today, like it or lump it, your notion of fair play in the modern game is like the obstruction rule, should happen but is obviously outdated.
ReplyDeleteFact - we have leaked 28 goals this season - same as Hull ! Like it or lump it without Suarez's personal contribution - 22 I believe we would be in bottom half of table .... How many times this season has he got us out of jail ? And he did the same yesterday .
ReplyDeleteExpected him to dive after couple of fouls not given in the first half. Sad but,
ReplyDeleteHe played for the foul and it was one. But how many Villa players played for free kicks? It was regularly happening so they could slow the game don and threaten us for a set piece. Is what Suarez done worse? Is the Villa players taking turns to hack Sterling better than what Suarez did? It continues to amaze me how the press moralise and villainise certain actions and completely ignore others.
ReplyDeleteWell in reality once suarez has pushed the ball passed guzan he should have jumped over the goalkeeper and then ran back to grab the ball and put it in the net!
ReplyDeleteEarlier in the match sturridge pushed a player who grabbed his face and fell like a sack of potatoes - did anyone highlight that?
Suarez himself was elbowed in the face - got nothing.
Suarez was also kicked in the back of his thigh - got nothing.
This is just this game - count how many times this season that the man has been battered and bruised. I can guarantee that if michael owen had done the same thing which he did do time and time again no one would have said anything.
Suarez didnt get penalty against city, he didnt get 2 against chelsea either. He got one here where any other player would also have got it - but it becomes an issue because its suarez.
I hope he takes it out on england at the world cup!
Yes, he saw a goalie slide, Suarez jump and fall, and awarded a penalty assuming that contact was made.
ReplyDeleteThe referee made a mistake.
You're right, I'm a bit old school when it comes to fair play, but what's the alternative? Just give up and join everyone else turning a blind eye to cheating/diving etc? No chance :-)
ReplyDeleteI think Rodgers seriously underestimated Villa. His formation reminded me of some of the Spurs line-ups from a few years back when they had 5 attackers but forgot any form of defence.
ReplyDeleteAs for Lambert, I think he has had to blood a lot of younger inexperienced players, especially at the back, over the last couple of years and that could maybe be good for the future of Villa (if the chairman doesn't give him the hook).
But a ref can't make a decision like that on mere assumption, can he? He has to see (or HEAR) contact.
ReplyDeleteYou haven't used your favourite word yet.... "enabler".
ReplyDeleteSpiffing.
Been saying the same for weeks mate, but everyone seems to think that we can just adopt an attitude of 'score one more than they do'.
ReplyDeleteWe shouldn't need 3 goals a game to get the points.
And I'm assuming you pulled one of my earlier posts that poured scorn on your pre-match optimism?
ReplyDeleteI'd rather he took it out against Everton, West Brom and Arsenal. Because we need it now.
ReplyDeleteIf he does it against England, I honestly don't think anyone will give a fnck.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm saying that I was sitting 15 yards away and couldn't tell. And I've seen countless angles now and still there is no CLEAR evidence either way. Which means the ref saw or heard something conclusive.
ReplyDeleteLove it when you get all bombastic. How's yours and Brendan Rodgers' 'heartening sign of attacking intent' panning out?
To be honest JK I'm a little fed up with the focus on the Suarez''dive'. The guy has played out of his skin since he returned from his ban and has done his best to stay out of trouble. What amazes me is that as soon as this happened the Suarez haters went straight on the attack. Countless instant replays etc However, I'd just like to point out that I didn't see anyone, calling for any kind of protection when he was getting the cr*p kicked out of him. It's really poor in my opinion that there was no repeated replay of the fouls he sustained (Including an elbow to the face!) during the match, or even the drop kick he got from Etoo in the game against Chelsea - Right in front of the ref! Which was as clear a penalty as you'll see. I'm never going to advocate cheating - ever and in the past have criticized Suarez for his behaviour,, but I think the guy is doing his best at the moment to stay out of trouble but will always get criticized - Because he's Suarez.
ReplyDeletethere is an alternative, but fifa, uefa, the premier league and others don't/won't want to do anything about lots of aspects of modern football, that are 'morally' or physically wrong. i guess i am older than you and probably have been travelling to watch football a lot longer. believe it or not it (diving, moaning, trying to garner an advantage), has been going on for decades. even our brilliant sides of yore were at it, albeit maybe not as consistently. i was on the spion to witness with my own, yes, my own, eyes, our own genius, stevie heighway dive in front of the kop to win a penalty!! so the alternative, dear boy, is to lump it and carry on doing what you are doing. you or i can't/won't change anything, we are just a number.
ReplyDeletewell thats two of us who think alike......beware of the backlash!
ReplyDeleteA fine line I'm afraid between cheating and gamesmanship which is part of every sport but then that is what officials are there for and being human don't always get it right ....... OK Suarez is a master and overcooks it a bit but unfortunately his reputation will always precede him
ReplyDeleteTo be honest I don't really mind the backlash, I simply don't agree with JK's spin on the situation. I think when it comes to Suarez he's always guilty till proven innocent, granted that some of the things he's done in the past haven't helped that, but as professionals, whoever officiates should take each situation as it is and not judge on past 'issues'. He ran got the ball in front of the keeper (who came out with a bit too much gusto) if it was clear that he dived then a penalty WOULD NOT have been given. So in my opinion ..Penalty.
ReplyDeleteThe day 'aint over yet.
ReplyDeleteAlso a Villa fan - see previous posts - and Liverpool a very good team.
ReplyDeleteBut we all know that Suarez was going to win that penalty even if Brad Guzan had missed him by a mile. By hook or by crook he'd have made it look like it.
As I asked in a previous post, if Suarez had rounded Guzan near the penalty spot with a simple tap in to score, would he have gone down? Not a chance. Going away from goal he was having the pen thank you!
A general - ie not anti Suarez point - there are so many cheats in football today. (not many in the Villa team cos they aren't good enough to get away with it) but referees are conned by players all the time. The pundits justify it by saying "there was contact so it was penalty" - Most of them would argue "contact" even when it's blatantly obvious to all there wasn't.
The worst offender in my book still has to be Ashley Young. He has perfected the technique of throwing a trailing leg at a stationary defender and then falling. Referees surely realise what is going on - but no, every week he gets penalties. Not as many as previously maybe, but if he does it often enough he gets one eventually.
Plant a tree in the penalty area and Young could still get a penalty trying to get round it!
When it doesn't matter, Moyse argues that it's not acceptable, but when he needs the result it's a case of "well the referee is the man in charge and he gave it - so it must have been" We all know that is complete ****!
You guys are lucky, you're still a big team - you get the decisions. Try it as a bottom half, "unfashionable" team - they don't often go your way!
That said, nice to see the Mancs lose today. Is Phil Dowd the worst referee ever? Two decisions to make - gets both wrong!
Day 'aint over yet.
ReplyDeleteas a forward I was taught to look for the keeper charging at me and going down. because at that point the keeper no longer has control and so i was taught if I don't have the shoot push the ball to side and wait for the contact fall and get the call. part of the keepers job is to make the tackle but at all cost TOUCH the ball. if they can't make the tackle keep their feet and shuffle them to the outside. guzan screwed up. you have to know as a keeper your positioning and what to do. refs typically give advantage to offensive players. bravo to SMART players
ReplyDeleteFor those who cant see the contact please look at suarez left foot and guzan right hand [when guzan goes to ground]. Most print journalist on review shows have said it was a penalty. IMO this maybe more a case of whether he could have stayed on his feet.
ReplyDeleteI did not vote because it is 50/50. One day it's given, the next day it's not. If this pen is not given, it's certainly not simulation.
ReplyDeleteIf a defender wins the ball but goes through the man they could see a yellow or even a red. On the other hand a keeper can kill the opposition player but as long as he gets the ball it's fine.
This is why I give Suarez the benefit of the doubt. Going away from goal, he was going to go down but he did not manufacture a foul nor did he do an Ashley Young olympic dive.
Guzan was in no mans land, he should of come out but stayed big and strong, on his feet. But instead he charged like a bull and missed, and then you're asking for a pen.
^ Now that's what I call a red herring, and it was accomplished through extreme sarcasm, and punctuation; notice the length of the ellipsis and the number paired exclamation & question marks. Yet, none of it manages to discuss this Suarez incident in particular or what is looking to be the most deserved reputation for simulation since Ashley Young.
ReplyDeleteExactly. If it weren't called it wouldn't be the end of the world, and it would never be yellow for Suarez. I think 99% of players would have reacted exactly the same - and more than half the time it would be called a penalty. So it's a bit of a non issue really. It's only fair that some good fortune goes his way once in a while.
ReplyDeleteHow are the videos more conclusive? They don't conclusively show if there's separation or contact between the two players, since they have a bad angle and are going too fast for our eyes. I think that photo is in fact more conclusive than any video we have seen.
ReplyDeleteOf course Suarez anticipated contact. A dude has come sliding in towards his legs, so of course he will ready himself for the impact. So how did Suarez end up 10 ft to the left? Think about it. Guzan has slid in with momentum straight into Suarez's leg as he is running. He hasn't just faintly tapped him with his hand. It's his arm, with the force of momentum behind him. Not only that, I think his knee may have slid into Suarez's foot too. That could maybe have Suarez ending up 10 ft away, because he's gone into below Suarez's centre of gravity, making his legs flip up. That would have made Suarez fall over whether he dived or not. He may have ended up 10 ft away because of exaggeration, but it seemed already to be a foul.
With that Valencia penalty Jaimie, you were arguing that in the photo, Johnson clearly had his hand on Valencia's back, thus forcing him to topple forwards. However, you mistook his hand for crease shadows on Valencia's shirt. Johnson's real hands appeared to be nowhere near him, conveying he didn't touch him, and that's why most people disagreed with you.
What you fail to mention is that the 'shadows' on the shirt where crease marks, which prove that the shirt was being tugged. So, either way, it makes no difference: it was a foul. How else do those downward crease marks appear.
ReplyDeleteAnd whether 'most people disagreed with me' is irrelevant. I don't write articles in a desperate bid to change peoples' opinions - I write what I think, and people are free to think what they think.
I know. I was just saying...
ReplyDelete