After a 2-0 victory over Oldham at Anfield, Liverpool are safely through to the 4th round of the FA Cup, and face a favourable tie against lower-league Bournemouth or Burton Albion. It's great to progress, but Brendan Rodgers' treatment of Luis Alberto continues to mystify, and his decision to yank the Spaniard off at half time today is, in my view, a disgrace.
Alberto's performance stats prior to today's game:
* 9 appearances
* 1 solitary start all season.
* 195 minutes of pitch time.
* No starts in the Prem.
* Unused sub 11 times.
* 1 assist.
Rodgers spent €7m on Alberto over the summer, but he's hardly used him all season, and he's rarely given the Spaniard any time to build up rhythm and rapport with his team-mates.
Oldham are two leagues below Liverpool, so today was clearly a great opportunity for Rodgers to give Alberto a full 90 minutes to show what he can do. Instead, Rodgers decided to embarrass the player by yanking him off at half-time. For me, it's a terrible decision, and an example of poor man-management:
* Alberto has played 12 minutes of football in the last month. At least give the guy a chance to find his feet, grow into the game, and get used to playing with his team-mates. Anyone who has played football will tell you it takes a little bit of time to get back into the swing of things when you haven't played for ages.
* Taking Alberto off at half-time is embarrassing for the player, because Rodgers is basically saying 'you're not good enough to play against League Two opposition (!). Why else would you remove someone at half-time?
* If Rodgers doesn't trust and/or rate Alberto enough to give him more than 45 minutes against a team that is languishing in the league one relegation zone (57 places below Liverpool), why did he spend €7m on him last summer?
* Alberto was probably excited to start the game. After all, it's human nature to feel that way after not playing for so long. I imagine he would've been stoked to show people what he can do in front of the Anfield crowd. Now, Alberto probably feels humiliated. I know I would. Granted, that is supposition on my part, but again, I submit that this is human nature. How else would someone feel being dumped from the team at half-time against one of the poorest teams in league-one? Publicly, Alberto will be a professional and put a brave-face on it, but privately he'll be hurting.
* Aspas, Sterling, Gerrard, and Hendo all failed to score in the first half; why did they escape being hooked at half-time? Why symbolically lay the blame on Alberto, who has less pitch time this season than any of those aforementioned players?
* Would it have killed Rodgers to leave Alberto on until at least the 60th minute? Would the universe explode? Would LFC's season disappear into sucking black hole? No. Going off at that sort of time is clearly far preferable to being embarrassingly expunged at half-time.
When asked after the game why he removed Alberto after 45 minutes, Rodgers told reporters:
* He wanted to avoid extra time or a replay.
* He needed the team to be 'better' and have more 'speed and intensity'
How exactly does taking off an attacker (Alberto) and replacing him with one of the most immobile players in the team (Lucas) increase 'speed and intensity'? Moses for Coutinho makes sense, and unlike Alberto, Moses has had countless chances to prove himself this season, but Lucas for Alberto? That makes no sense at all.
If, as his comments suggest, Rodgers truly believed that Liverpool were in danger of failing to beat league one relegation fodder at Anfield, then that speaks volumes about his effectiveness in the transfer market. After all, five of his signings were in the starting line-up, and Rodgers' post-match comments strongly suggest that he has very little faith in his own buys, which is a concern.
What is the man-management advantage of taking off Alberto at half-time against hugely inferior, lower league opposition? What are the benefits to the player in doing that? How will that improve his confidence? There are absolutely no positives, but there are some very obvious negatives.
Yes, Liverpool won the game, and that's great, but if Alberto had stayed on the field, Liverpool still would've achieved victory. Does anyone seriously doubt that? Are we to believe that Liverpool were in danger of losing the game with Alberto on the field? The club's form at Anfield this season is superb, and statistically speaking, the probability of an LFC win was extremely high.
If Rodgers is going to spend €7m of LFC's money on a player, then he's surely required to give that player a rudimentary chance to succeed! Aspas had a series of starts at the beginning of the season, as did Moses, but Alberto is continually overlooked, and then treated shabbily when he gets the the rare chance to play.
Generally, Rodgers seems to have good man-management skills, but in some cases, he gets it horribly wrong. In this case, he has, IMO, needlessly shattered Alberto's confidence; delivered a massive, very public vote of no-confidence in the player, and made yet another tacit admission that he failed in the summer transfer market.
Author: Jaimie K
Alberto's performance stats prior to today's game:
* 9 appearances
* 1 solitary start all season.
* 195 minutes of pitch time.
* No starts in the Prem.
* Unused sub 11 times.
* 1 assist.
Rodgers spent €7m on Alberto over the summer, but he's hardly used him all season, and he's rarely given the Spaniard any time to build up rhythm and rapport with his team-mates.
Oldham are two leagues below Liverpool, so today was clearly a great opportunity for Rodgers to give Alberto a full 90 minutes to show what he can do. Instead, Rodgers decided to embarrass the player by yanking him off at half-time. For me, it's a terrible decision, and an example of poor man-management:
* Alberto has played 12 minutes of football in the last month. At least give the guy a chance to find his feet, grow into the game, and get used to playing with his team-mates. Anyone who has played football will tell you it takes a little bit of time to get back into the swing of things when you haven't played for ages.
* Taking Alberto off at half-time is embarrassing for the player, because Rodgers is basically saying 'you're not good enough to play against League Two opposition (!). Why else would you remove someone at half-time?
* If Rodgers doesn't trust and/or rate Alberto enough to give him more than 45 minutes against a team that is languishing in the league one relegation zone (57 places below Liverpool), why did he spend €7m on him last summer?
* Alberto was probably excited to start the game. After all, it's human nature to feel that way after not playing for so long. I imagine he would've been stoked to show people what he can do in front of the Anfield crowd. Now, Alberto probably feels humiliated. I know I would. Granted, that is supposition on my part, but again, I submit that this is human nature. How else would someone feel being dumped from the team at half-time against one of the poorest teams in league-one? Publicly, Alberto will be a professional and put a brave-face on it, but privately he'll be hurting.
* Aspas, Sterling, Gerrard, and Hendo all failed to score in the first half; why did they escape being hooked at half-time? Why symbolically lay the blame on Alberto, who has less pitch time this season than any of those aforementioned players?
* Would it have killed Rodgers to leave Alberto on until at least the 60th minute? Would the universe explode? Would LFC's season disappear into sucking black hole? No. Going off at that sort of time is clearly far preferable to being embarrassingly expunged at half-time.
When asked after the game why he removed Alberto after 45 minutes, Rodgers told reporters:
* He wanted to avoid extra time or a replay.
* He needed the team to be 'better' and have more 'speed and intensity'
How exactly does taking off an attacker (Alberto) and replacing him with one of the most immobile players in the team (Lucas) increase 'speed and intensity'? Moses for Coutinho makes sense, and unlike Alberto, Moses has had countless chances to prove himself this season, but Lucas for Alberto? That makes no sense at all.
If, as his comments suggest, Rodgers truly believed that Liverpool were in danger of failing to beat league one relegation fodder at Anfield, then that speaks volumes about his effectiveness in the transfer market. After all, five of his signings were in the starting line-up, and Rodgers' post-match comments strongly suggest that he has very little faith in his own buys, which is a concern.
What is the man-management advantage of taking off Alberto at half-time against hugely inferior, lower league opposition? What are the benefits to the player in doing that? How will that improve his confidence? There are absolutely no positives, but there are some very obvious negatives.
Yes, Liverpool won the game, and that's great, but if Alberto had stayed on the field, Liverpool still would've achieved victory. Does anyone seriously doubt that? Are we to believe that Liverpool were in danger of losing the game with Alberto on the field? The club's form at Anfield this season is superb, and statistically speaking, the probability of an LFC win was extremely high.
If Rodgers is going to spend €7m of LFC's money on a player, then he's surely required to give that player a rudimentary chance to succeed! Aspas had a series of starts at the beginning of the season, as did Moses, but Alberto is continually overlooked, and then treated shabbily when he gets the the rare chance to play.
Generally, Rodgers seems to have good man-management skills, but in some cases, he gets it horribly wrong. In this case, he has, IMO, needlessly shattered Alberto's confidence; delivered a massive, very public vote of no-confidence in the player, and made yet another tacit admission that he failed in the summer transfer market.
Author: Jaimie K
Well it made sense as we won the game! Now let's have another look, say he did take gerrard off and left Alberto on and we lost. You can bet people would be screaming to high heaven. The fact he made the changes and second half was much better says to me the manager knows why he is doing!
ReplyDeleteHow does it make sense? Are you suggesting that LFC wouldn't have won the game (against league one relegation fodder) if Alberto had stayed on?
ReplyDeleteI thought practically the whole team looked unconvincing which is very disturbing, particularly against such lowly opposition.
ReplyDeleteIt's far from a disgrace. He wasn't playing well. First priority was to get the result before one can cater for keeping someone happy. Aspas got minutes as a reward for playing well, Alberto didn't.
ReplyDeleteOne common theme in your arguments is that, if Rodgers didn't trust him why spend 7mm on him? The answer here is that he probably thought he would have been better than he is, and would love for him to be a Coutunho mk.2...but it hasn't worked out yet. You have to take a risk on players sometimes and you don't get to work with them without spending the cash first.
I think if anything today shows that Alberto isn't quite ready and would hope the furore on this and other forums around him getting minutes and 'BR being an idiot' for not playing him ( as I read after the hull game!) dies down a bit....
sorry dont agree luis alberto has alot of ability but needs games to build his confidence and to get him up to speed with the premier league something brendan has not given him so why buy him in the first place another talent wasted by rodgers IMO
ReplyDeleteGreat point, Trev: Alberto needs games, and today was the perfect opportunity, especially considering he'll almost certainly be back on the bench for the upcoming Prem games.
ReplyDeleteI think you just have a man crush on alberto....the pressin and speed of ball was better when lucas came on because the shape in the middle changed a bit. Its a shame you didnt notice that. Probably BR asked for certain things and wasnt getting it so he made the changes. Good on him, sometimes managers leave changes too late and next thing y know we're heading to oldham. One thing i dont do is grt too caught up in when individual players seemingly dont get a look. It cojld be cos the manager doesnt like em or it could be cos they're just not ready. And if BR was rsponsiblee for bring alberto in then I would trust that he is keeping albertos development in kind as albertos failure long term is evidence of BRs transfer failing. And BR would want wat is best for the club too. Luis will get his shot hut perhaps he is iust not ready yet. The majority of his cameos show that
ReplyDeletePressing and speed on the ball? Right, so Alberto is the only player responsible for that, right? The entire responsibility for pressing the opposition is down to him?
ReplyDeleteWith respect, you're just toeing the company line: Rodgers is right because he's the manager; Alberto will come good' he'll get his chance etc etc. There's no evidence to suggest that Alberto will 'get his chance', and if the 'majority of his cameos' show that Alberto is not ready, where does his recent assist fit into that?
Finally, the people at Liverpool are learning that, when all is said and done, only the result matters. As for Alberto, Aspas, Assaidi, Borini, Moses and Cissokho, whilst all are decent players, I'm still wondering why they were brought to Anfield.
ReplyDeleteexactly jaimie onthe bench for the next game and like you said what use is he going to be if we need him with no game time behind him and now his confidence taking a knock brutal man management
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the full quotes from BR he clearly indicated that in order to win the game he had to axe two performers who in his mind were not good enough.
ReplyDeleteHe has done it before, BR tried a different shape and Suso was struggling big time in a 4231 so he took him off after 30 minutes and injected Hendo into the game and we won convincingly after that.
Why should Alberto/Moses stay on the field if they are not good enough in BR's mind?
Sorry but he's simply not good enough along with several
ReplyDeleteOthers but Rogers completely right to drag him off
We couldn't afford to lose
How can Alberto not be good enough to play against a team 57 places below LFC. At Anfield? That just doesn't compute. If it's true, then it shows Rodgers incompetence in the transfer market. €7m for a player who's not good enough to perform against league one relegation fodder.
ReplyDeleteI've watched the game, and I reject the notion that Alberto was struggling. He wasn't; he fluffed a couple of chances, but got into some great positions.
I also find it strange that Rodgers adopts his scorched-earth policy against a League one team, but doesn't use similar tactics against Prem teams when LFC are losing and/or failing to make attacking headway.
In this particular game though Alberto had a relatively poor first half, gave the ball away quite a bit.
ReplyDeleteFlipping this on its head a bit...he had 45 mins against a league 1 team and failed to impress. Why should Rogers leave him on? From your rationale I can only see that it is solely for Alberto's development. Ie not for the team, club or the result. Ergo it is not the best reason to leave him on. At worst you could probably say that BR should have given him a bit more time.
How about some praise for giving Aspas a lot of minutes and boosting his confidence????
The answer to most of your questions is that at half time it was 0-0 and Alberto was nothing special at full time it was 2-0. At this level you have to take your chances when they come along no matter how limited they may be. And yes I for one think we could have drawn or even lost the game if the changes had not been made. You say past results mean we would have won anyway I say past results show we could just as easily have drawn or even lost.
ReplyDeleteBoosting Aspas's confidence? Let's wait till the next game when Aspas is back on the bench. Any confidence gain will then be wasted.
ReplyDeletePlease outline how Alberto had a poor first half. I've watched the game, and he didn't give the ball away (IMO) more than anyone else in the team.
hold on there he bought alberto for 7 million pound and most players need time in a different league hes young and talented and if rodgers wasnt going to give him a fair chance he should have never bought him its the FA cup after all no longer what it once was
ReplyDeleteLiverpool have won 9 and lost 1 of ten home games this season, and averaged 3 goals a game. That's a 90% win rate - how can past results at home show that LFC could 'easily have lost or drawn'?
ReplyDeletedont always agree with you but on this point i have to agree jamie, for me it was a dreadful decision to make that change at the break, if he had to make the change than he should of at least given him the first 5 mins of the second half just to get the reassurance off the applause coming off, to take him off at half time would have totally pulled the rug from under him and left him with a very anti-climatical feeling to a day hed probably been lookin forward to all week.. he would have come into his own once he settled into his full debut and once we scored the opening goal and space opened up a bit he would have tore them apart imo... good win but poor show from rodgers on that score, lets hope luis bounces back cause i really rate the kid
ReplyDeleteGood points. I think you have the crux of it there - it's the ignominy of coming off at half time. That's never a good thing. As you say, Rodgers could've waited until the second half, and the negative impact wouldn't have been so acute.
ReplyDeleteThat's Rodgers for you, Allen, Aspas, Alberto, Moses, Sissokho,Assaidi, Borini, all not Liverpool standard, got Lucky with Sturridge (wont keep scoring) and Coutinho (can't finish) good job he inherited Suarez or he'd be out by now.
ReplyDeleteWell said. It may not have hurt to have left Alberto on until the 60th min, but it may well have a hurt too - clearly a risk Rodger's didn't want to take.
ReplyDeleteP.S. with regards to Lucas negating "speed and intensity", I think Jaimie that you should remember that pressing the ball and winning the ball back quickly has everything to do with speed and intensity of starting attacks off, so don't be so quick to judge Rodgers' tactics ;)
And now he has had another 45 mins to get more match practice, tripling his match time from last month in one go!! BR is a genius!
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, I did think Alberto was the worse player, if we had been cruising at 4-0 then we all know he would have stayed on, but we weren't and we needed to get a result. Alberto has not gained the trust of BR yet and he was the victim of that overall underperformance this time round.
I also suspect aspas will be on the bench next game, but we don't know that right now so let's just say it's good he got minutes today...which I think I am right in saying you were calling for?
With all due respect Jaimie, you suggest that Alberto may be humiliated at being pulled off, clearly shown a vote of no confidence and that privately he'll be hurting. To coin your own phrase which I have seen several times - Where is your evidence? This is pure subjecture and has not basis in fact.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that Alberto is a technically good player who prior to coming to Liverpool played well in the Segunda Divicion. He has shown in his cameo's that he is not yet ready for the pace and power of the English game both in physical size, but also in thought. He may come good, but he needs to adapt. The team were not dominant enough in the centre of the park with him there in the first half, but bringing on Lucas to hole up the midfield allowed the other CM to become more creative. As a result 2 goals were scored. Those are irrefutable facts and point to good tactical awareness by the manager.
Alberto's feelings may or may not have been hurt, and Alberto may or may not be feeling upset at not getting enough game time, but unless you're his new best buddy we're going to have to leave that one to subjecture and opinion.
In my opinion the manager selected a team mixed with a balance of youth and experience which should have been able to see off Oldham at home. The game was not being closed out in the manner he wanted and he made some tactical changes at half time. This was good management. If you want to pick on something negative, then ask the question why Suarez was brought on as the 3rd sub when it was clear Agger was carrying a knock. He came off a minute later and we were down to 10 men for the last 10 minutes.
Yes, I'm glad that Aspas got minutes on the pitch, but Alberto should've been spared the ignominy of being yanked off at half time against a team two leagues below LFC. From a man-management perspective, it's amateur hour IMO. Against Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City - fair enough. Against Oldham (!) - an avoidable embarrassment.
ReplyDeleteYou are quite literally too stupid to insult.
ReplyDeleteIn my article, I specifically acknowledge that my views on Alberto's feels are 'supposition'.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in the absence of specific evidence, we deal in probabilities, and it is highly probable that Alberto is feeling down right now. This is human nature.
In theory he should be good enough.
ReplyDeleteI always knew Alberto was an attacker and I thought he could play centre midfield but it seems he is more limited in an attacking sense.
After he was replaced the dynamic of our midfield changed. BR believed this change was necessary so why should Alberto be supported by blind faith and just stay on the pitch regardless of the opposition?
Yes, Alberto was signed by Rodgers for 7M but I like that Rodgers made the change because in his mind things were not up to standard, rather than try to justify the purchase of one player.
Ignominy or a kick up the backside next time you pull the shirt on I want 110%
ReplyDeleteInteresting point, do you think it's more embarrassing to be subbed at halftime when you can just stay in the changing rooms and rejoin the bench without people seeing you, or having to trudge off in front of 45,000 on 50/55 mins?
ReplyDeleteFootball is about winning games, not massaging the fringe players' egos. Alberto is (so far) a transfer failure ... so what? Happens every year at every team. Rodgers can waste 6m on the likes of Aspas and Alberto, if he keeps finding 9m buys like Sturridge and Coutinho with the same frequency.
ReplyDeleteAs long as we can't afford two 30m players each window, we will see 3-4 players on which Rodgers is right to take a gamble.
For me, it's far more embarrassing going off at half time. Lots of players get subbed off in the second half of games; there's no real stigma attached to it. Being subbed off at half-time is always negative. There are no positives.
ReplyDeleteBrendan Rodgers is the manager of Liverpool FC not Jaimie Kanwar. The game was won and many would argue because Lucas and Coutinho entered the game at HT for Alberto and Moses. Moan if it had been lost Write something positive instead of knit picking all the time Jaimie
ReplyDeleteThe performance was nowhere near convincing - if you were told at half-time that the result was going to be a draw, would you rule it out completely? I highly doubt it..
ReplyDeleteNot good enough wasnt the right choice of words. Not performing well enough is
ReplyDeleteBorini aside, its because they were all (relatively) cheap, available and on (relatively) low wages. Borini was just a bad choice! However, Moses and Cissokho are good pieces of business. Moses played well for Wigan and never got the chance at Chelsea. Could that be because he was being overlooked (ala Sturridge) or because he's not a top 6 player. We know now that the latter is more true, but we've saved a handsome transfer fee. He's able to do a job as a decent squad player. The same is true of Cissokho (who prior to coming to LFC I quite fancied as an attacking LB). We got to try them before we bought.
ReplyDeleteAssaidi was a 3million punt. He looked good for Herenveen, but it is the Dutch league. He does not have the end product or tactical discipline for a top 6 side, but under Hughes is starting to look worthy of his price tag for Stoke. I suspect we'll make a profit when we sell him on.
The jury is still out on Aspas and Alberto. Technically they both look like the sort of players we want, but both have appeared to struggle with the physicality and speed of the English game. Got to give them more time to adapt, a second season to see if they can break into the starting 11 or will always be squad players.
That brings me back to Borini. It doesn't matter which way you look at this one, for 10.6mil this buy is a shocker! Not in the Andy Carrol/Stuart Downing/Alberto Aquilani shocker league, but getting there. Hopefully Sunderland will warm to him and offer us a couple of quid at the end of the season.
Isnt the cup always about getting through to the next round? Or have I got something wrong here?
ReplyDeletene
ReplyDeleteLet me add that: Substituting Alberto at half time also sends out a perfect signal to the rest of the squad: make sure you perform or you'll lose your place in the team. Messages like this will keep the likes of Lucas, Henderson, Sterling etc. on their feet.
ReplyDeleteI do not see any insult in @roythered's comment. BR brought in a lot of players who are not living up to expectation
ReplyDeleteIf we're dealing with supposition, then Alberto may have been told ahead of the game that he'll get 45 mins to see how things are going, and if we're not comfortably winning you'll need to come off. In management the key element to being effective and maintaining a high degree of motivation is clear and honest communication. If Rogers had the sort of conversations I would anticipate he would have with the player, then you may find the lad would be thankful for the opportunity and helped to further recognise the development needs which had previously been discussed.
ReplyDeleteI think you're doing Rogers a great disservice in his man management abilities as well as his player development experience with your assertions.
Moses good business? Moses is the worst player I've seen play for Liverpool in a long time. Totally undeserving of the accolade of putting on the famous red shit.
ReplyDeleteI can remember matches we (and many other teams) should have won based on past performances, history, league positions etc but because of team changes, bad luck, poor decisions or a combination of these factors the favoured team got bogged down and could not turn it around. . We do not know for sure what would have happened in this match had these changes not been made when they were. All we do know is the changes were made and we won 2-0.
ReplyDeleteOldham 3-2 Liverpool | The FA Cup 4th Round 2013. For those who have forgotten, And for those who have forgotten WE WON!
ReplyDeleteYour criticism smacks of an anti Rodgers agenda rather than a fair minded assessment as you are taking the time to have a pop despite us winning after the changes.
The team clearly was not performing The result is a clear indication of that its was 0-0 against a team that you rightly point out is 57 places below us. You also point out that we have won 9 out of our last ten home games.Now try to digest the implications of that statement and perhaps you will re consider your anti Rodger agenda.
No the cup has become about not hurting the feelings of players that aren't playing well on the day and letting them keep their dignity... Did you not get the memo for the rule change?? Don't think Alberto in the same boat as Mata in terms of ridiculed, but maybe he'll cry about it or maybe he'll understand what BR wants from him in his next game.
ReplyDeleteAnti-Rodgers agenda? Yes, another simplistic assessment from someone who clearly can't see any kind of grey area when it comes being a football fan. Clearly, it's either blanket support or all out hatred; perish the thought that there can be any levels between those. This site is a living testament to my overall support for Rodgers; I also criticise him for specific things, and there's nothing wrong with that.
ReplyDeleteBeing critical of a decision does not mean a person is against the manager. That kind of thinking is just nonsense.
The comment is directed at Alex, not roythered.
ReplyDeleteYou seriously think that Rodgers would sub off Henderson or Lucas at half time?
ReplyDeleteDidn't see the game, but heard it. From what I heard, Moses was the one not up to par, but again I didn't see, so it's hard to provide an informed opinion.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there is a possibility that Alberto's subbing was a casualty of moses. If he had subbed moses off at half and let Alberto play, then he would be singling out moses, by subbing them both off at the same time, neither one was treated different than the other. Just a thought. Too bad he didn't get a full game, or at least a bit more time - he has shown glimpses of quality in his camoes, would be nice to see what he can do in a full game.
How can you possibly judge these players to be inadequate when we've barely seen any of them pull on a the shirt? Aspas and Alberto are coming from a different league where there's more time on the ball and you don't have to think so quickly. Add the physical aspect to that and it's unquestionable that they need time to adapt to the British style of football. As for Assaidi, he's now showing some worth at Stoke. Coutinho may not be able to finish but you may have well said the same thing about Suarez 18 months ago, now he's a monster in front of goal! Coutinho can improve his finishing, he's only in his early 20s and may Suarez's improvement serve as a testament to this. How can you also say so emphatically that Sturridge will stop scoring? How can you also say he'd be out by now? If we didn't have Suarez, I think all pragmatic LFC fans would agree that we wouldn't have a shot at the top 4 and therefore, Rodgers would've been given more time irrespective.
ReplyDeleteWhen did we all become so pigheaded? Remember Lucas, the young Brazilian we booed back in '08? Well I bet most of us have now changed our opinions on him!! We need to stop being so fickle and get behind our team! I have faith that some of the players you have mentioned will come good. YNWA
Il give you your due fella. You dont give up without a fight but your getting slaughtered. Time to throw the towel in and save your Rodgers out babble for another time.
ReplyDeleteYou hit the nail on the head...kanlad is not an LFC fan and this is a pseudo LFC site. ..people drawn here like lemmings
ReplyDeleteReading between the lines I think you just don't like Brendan Rodgers. Am I right?
ReplyDeleteNew to this but i must go back to the 1st statement made.Alberto was given 45 mins and was way below par,as was Moses,unfortunately we are not talking about park football on a sat afternoon here,this is Liverpool in the FA CUP,if a player that costs 30 or 40 million is not performing then they must be replaced,price doesnt mean a thing,its the performance you want and Rodgers wasnt getting it from Alberto or Moses.You dont get minutes into players in any important games,its about performance..If Liverpool had lost(im not saying they would have)then you and many others would be on here asking why the under performing players were not replaced early enough to ensure us winning the game,thats a fact.This was not a reserve game,this was 3rd round of the FA CUP,Rodgers done what he felt was right and we won the game,get behind him!!.
ReplyDeletegetting slaughtered? What nonsense. Unlike you, I don't see this as a competition; I see it as a debate. A discussion. There's no winner or loser. Everyone has their own opinion, and the aim of the comment section is not pressgang people into changing their views.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to 'throw in the towel' - like everyone else, I'll defend my view. If I just changed my mind because people disagreed with me, that would be the epitome of fickleness.
And please give it a rest with the 'rodgers out' cobblers. I don't want him out; there's nothing on this site, or in this article, that hints/suggests or implies I want him out, please don't lazily make things up.
Why is it that every other sports forecaster is saying the sub in of Lucas made LFC more productive but you are saying otherwise?? I read your piece and it does not explain how keeping the Alberto in helps the team instead of the player.
ReplyDeleteNo, you are wrong, and that is the typical response of a fan who has a narrow-minded view of what constitutes being a football fan.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a mind of your own, or do you just go around adopt the views of 'every other sportscaster'?
ReplyDeleteFirst of I did not watch the game. And two if that I was to take what you saying seriously means what you write means a whole lot of nothing..
ReplyDeleteYes, I'm sure we can all remember matches like that, but what matters is this season, not five years ago. This season, LFC are pile-driving teams at Anfield, which suggests that a win against lower-league opposition is a strong probability.
ReplyDeleteUm, was anyone here at the game?
ReplyDeleteOur bench is thin, we need transfers - big ones - and the team screams about in the whole festive period...
ReplyDeletedid BR insult you in a previous lifetime!!!?
ReplyDeleteI really like your site and the comments/debate that ensues after each article, but you don't ever seem to relent.
If you aren't moaning about Rodgers poor work in the transfer market (such as picking up Coutinho and Sturridge!) then its his poor man management - have you not been watching the ridiculously improved performances of Sterling, Henderson, Flanagan et al. Not to mention the fact that we had one of the top 20 or so players in the world last season who is now raining on the Messi/Ronaldo parade as one of the best players in the world. This has to be attributed to BR. His man management is better than probably every other manager in the league.
So you will say it was sh1t transfer policy in buying Alberto but he is only one member of a committee and may have never wanted him. You and I do not see the players in training every day. I was suprised Alberto got a start as having seen every match this season he is simply not good enough......
rant over - just be nice to see you praise BR once.
Since this site started we are in the best position we have ever been in as a football club, we are playing the most attractive football we have played for decades and we are in with a chance of the double........BE HAPPY LIKE THE REST OF US!!!
I would respond to your points, but I lose interest when I see comments like 'it would be nice to see you praise BR once'.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't be bothered to represent my views accurately, then I can't be bothered respond.
I remember my boss saying he was going to yank me off at half-time. I must say it made a pleasant change; at my last club I used to just get an orange.........
ReplyDeleteboom tish
I agree Alberto shouldn't of been taken off at half time, I too am desperate to see more of the lad, but ultimately i am happy that the decision was made to change things in order for the team to win.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that Oldham is a struggling league one team is irrelevant, what would of been worse and truely embarassing is for Liverpool to lose AGAIN against them at Anfield. Its common for any lower league team to play out of their skin to try and claim a premier league scalp in these games, so if Rodgers feels that the team is under performing so be it, I only hope Alberto gets some more game later on in the season.
spot on
ReplyDeleteMight be the kick up the back side Alberto needs to push on? How do we know? Rogers is paid to manage, that is what he's doing, we are winning matches and still someone finds something to moan about! Where's the problem?
ReplyDeleteNo. That's the point. He can do that with Alberto and make Henderson and Lucas think "wow, we got some tough manager who is not afraid to make Jaimie K go mad at him ... I better be on my game or I won't start the next game ..."
ReplyDeleteAssumption: Enough competition for places when the likes of Sturridge, Allen et al. return ...
To be brutally honest, we were rubbish in the Norwich game. The game was meandering until Suarez exploded into life with that first goal out of nowhere.
ReplyDeleteNorwich had 2 great chances first half and scored a pretty good goal too. The only difference between the two sides that night was Luis Suarez.
I take on board your point about 90% win rate, but without Suarez and the way the game was panning out today, a draw would not have been a major surprise.
The problem is a young player got humiliated and 'yanked off'' at half time (ewww)... People said the same thing was being done to Raheem, look at how he's reacted?? Maybe this will be a catalyst for Alberto, if he's humiliated and can't pick himself up, he either needs to be shown the door or change careers.
ReplyDeleteOldham are in League One, pal.
ReplyDeleteI think Alberto was trying through balls for Aspas, but they simply weren't coming off. Rogers maybe thought Coutinho would be a better bet to unlock their defence, and get us through the tie. If Alberto can't handle being subbed then he may be in the wrong career.
ReplyDeleteMoses was subbed too, but that is because he is lazy and sh!t. (And that is a factually-based analysis from watching him play over the last 3 months, not an insult).
couldnt agree more with what you have written here..just to add,we are playing the best football we have for a long long time,in a healthy position in the league,in the fa cup 4th round,yet still people complain and to complain about a player only getting 45 mins instead of 60 or 90 is just embarrassing really.Whos fault was that?wasnt Rodgers,it was Alberto..For me the Spanish lads maybe didnt know what the FA CUP is about,also i doubt very much if they know anything about Oldham and maybe thought they could coast through a game against far inferior opposition,they cant.Alberto knows that now and will be better for it,not worse,Apsas also didnt play well and today will be a learning curve for him as well.
ReplyDeleteI was. It was poor. And I've only just warmed up....... !!!
ReplyDeleteBit of a concern about the "rowdy" element creepy back into our support. Coach bricked against Hull and now a stabbing outside the Flat Iron against Oldham. I know we all want Anfield to be a fortress again but not sure we need to be terrorising kids outside the ground too. Just a thought.
As usual Lucas gets brought into it? Has he shagged your wife or something?
ReplyDeleteI think supposition is always a bad think when trying to make a point. I agree that it seemed harsh to pull him off at half time; I actually thought he was our brightest spark in the first half. But If we're going down the supposition route we could hypothesise that Rogers said before the game. 'Alberto, here's your chance. You've really impressed me in training. We're playing a team 57 places below us. I believe you can tear them apart! You've got 45 minutes to prove me right. If it's not working I'll bring on coutinho and you can have another shot on another day!'
ReplyDeleteAnd Alberto may have walked off at half time knowing he was going to be subbed but thinking, well I gave it my best shot and the manager really believed in me. What a great day but a shame I didn't get a goal or assist. At least I know he rates me enough to give me a chance and I'll get another one soon!
At the end of the day, we don't know!
One thing is certain...it's tough being a manager. I think BR made the right decision because at the end of the day he has to explain to the world why he didn't make the necessary changes and lost/drew the match...or explain to Alberto why he felt the need to take him out. I'd rather be patting him on the back for his part in a victory and giving Alberto another shot in the next FA Cup match or subbing on in the next PL match if it's going well. From what I was listening to it didn't sound like he was doing all that bad, but BR couldn't stand a draw or loss and he wasn't feeling confident.
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something or is this article suggesting that one player's needs are more important than that of Liverpool FC. Alberto has plenty of time to mature a player and very rarely does a player play to their full potential in their first season, particularly when coming from abroad and being so young. He will be a great player and must patiently wait for his opportunities then grab it with both hands,
ReplyDeleteIn Brendan We Trust, YNWA !
Yes, you are missing something.
ReplyDeleteSo what did you want the boss to do? Let alberto be in and we play 12 men? It was part of the tactics to make sure we win without having to replay or have Suarez be put under pressure to score in last 20,30 minutes. And it worked. I have nothing against Alberto and I like how BR is being cautious to make right use of Alberto without putting too much pressure on his shoulders. He is young and can improve on every chance he gets. In no way I think it is vote of no confidence as like your article suggests.
ReplyDeleteMoses's loan can be considered good business when you consider we needed an attacking winger who could slot straight into the first team squad. He cost Chelsea a small fortune and looked good for wigan. With a £8+mil price tag we could have been persuaded to buy. Instead, the good bit of business is that we got to try the lad out for a year and can make a call on that. It'll probably be a no, but by loaning him in we've saved a small fortune.
ReplyDeleteDid Coutinho do any better?
ReplyDeleteI think it was distasteful to treat him like that, and I think he's been quite distasteful towards him all year, his lack of opportunities has been completely baffling.. If he had no interest in playing him, why bother signing him?
ReplyDeleteAs for the point of bringing on the immobile Lucas not making sense for increasing the intensity of the play, I disagree- bringing him on changed the dynamic of the team, he sat in the holding position meaning that it could allow more freedom going forwards for the likes of Coutinho, Aspas, Hendo and Gerrard etc.. Meaning that the overall intensity was improved, even if Lucas himself was not a direct contributor to it!
Knowing Brendan, he probably found a way of taking him off at half time and making him feel 10 feet tall hahaha!
ReplyDeleteAgree with you JK
ReplyDeletehahahahaa !!! you are stupid Jamie Kanvar. I hope you had some understanding of tactics and football
ReplyDeleteI rate Alberto and still think he has a future at Liverpool buying players young and cheap generally means you need patience with them.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is everyone expects them to hit the ground running sorry but it aint going to happen.
I think Alberto none the less needs match time and it would have been good for him to get more time, surely he could have got 90 minutes still he has time as still does Borini, to whom i rate also.
I would suggest that leaving a player on the pitch who is not performing well enough and may cost his team an FA cup win would be far far more damaging. Rodgers made a tactical change, plain and simple. It made sense to him even if you don't understand it. You put a tremendous amount of importance in a player's emotional reaction to getting subbed off but I very much doubt Alberto is that weak minded. Rodgers would have explained it to him afterwards and Alberto would have understood. The team as it was set up in the first half was simply not doing a good enough job. We needed Lucas on the pitch to free up Gerrard and take control of the game. He did that and we won. It was a substantial tactical change, replacing inexperienced players who were not doing very well with experienced players who got the job done. Any younger player in the same situation should have enough mental stamina to deal with the reality of the situation and not break out into some kind of child-like sulk. You have zero evidence that this has done any lasting damage to Alberto. It's just as likely that he'll take this as a lesson and become a better player because of it.
ReplyDeleteAs for not using Alberto enough ... you seem to be writing off his career based on this single season. Shouldn't we give the kid some time to develop? If it takes Alberto 2 years to come to terms with English football and truly challenge for a starting spot ... so what? It's not a penny wasted until we see the player being shown the door and as much as you'd like to pretend you have a crystal ball you actually have no idea what the future holds for him. If Alberto comes good another 12 months from now and gets regular game time in the PL and European competitions then it will have been money well spent. There is nothing wrong with spending good money on young players with potential who then need time to develop their game. It's only the fans with no patience who expect instant results who are bothered.
The introduction of Lucas to play DM instead of GERRARD did improve midfield. Gerrard replacing Alberto further forward didn't (IMO). Also Couthino coming on with his tendency to come inside had a positive effect compared to the fairly tame performance of Moses in the first half. I thought Alberto and Kelly were the stand out performers in the first half and I was gutted Alberto was taken off at half time. I really rate Alberto and feel a run of full games will show him to provide more goals and assists than Couthino, Henderson or Gerrard. Alberto is not getting a fair deal from Rogers and this needs to change.
ReplyDeleteLucas effectively replaced Gerrad as DM and showed he can do the job much better. Gerrard moved forward and replaced Alberto and was not as creative as Alberto IMO. Alberto is a class act and desperately needs games to show what he can do.
ReplyDeleteNo
ReplyDeleteNothing in football is certain. Thankfully BR doesnt take this arrogant attitude into the game that you do.
ReplyDeleteSomeone else said 'how is alberto' supposed to grt up to speed if he's notplaying. Well that's what training is for and a transition to the first team. A whole lot of knickers getting twisted over stuff we have very little insight into.
Ye no longer what it was, but you certainly hear about it if you lose when you "shouldnt"
ReplyDeleteAnd this is where the irrational anger hits its peak. First off you don't know the manner with which luis was subbed at half time.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all you elude to the potential mental pain this will cause luis and then offer no possibility of BR's known man management skills to do this in the right way for luis.
And third of all the manager has to make big balls calls amd take the flak for it, which is ironic seeing as we won....
I fail to see the shame of being subbed off at half time. Rather that than play 4 minutes at the end of a routing.
ReplyDeleteI am with Jamie on this one..Did luis alberto shag rodgers mrs or something.. he came on against tottenham for 15mins approx and played a great ball and set up a goal and he was straight back on bench for ever. Brad whatever his name is from australia even got on before luis at chelsea..makes no sense at all to me. Rodgers has it in for him in my opinion..simple..wonder what he did to rub him up the wrong way
ReplyDeleteNo he's not the only on responsible but the dynamic of the midfield just didn't fit well imo. Especially with stevie playn DM. Now thats a whole other debate, but I think it would have been better to sub stevie out and keep alberto on, but i guess the skipper needs a run huh? I like alberto for sure, i dont think his assist for LS takes away the fact he is not yet up to speed. He will get there it just has to take time. He can contribute for sure but it has to be managed.
ReplyDeleteCo.pany line ye haha, But I look at hendo who has pushed on, flanno, sterling after his slow start, sturridge coutinho etc etc i know there will be bad examples but for me BR is building a track record that I trust
Yeah I have to agree with you. It was a bit shocking to read this article tbh. Came across like a high school kid throwing a tanty cos the coach didnt put him on....one of BR biggest management skills is his man management. Or so we were td and have begun to see in his time. He knows alberto better than all of us, i hope and trust (rather than blindly believe ;) ) that BR remained on top of his man management skills in benching alberto at HT time.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I am disappointed about however is the missed minutes that alberto could have had in those games we were smashing teams.
Because in sport every victory just brings you closer to your next defeat. The minute you become complacent with that is the moment you deserve to lose
ReplyDeleteThe score line suggests it did hurt to keep him in. We did score two goals after he left. Some people respond better to a "tough love" approach. It worked with Enrique, Downing and Henderson, possibly this is the way to get the best out of Alberto too.
ReplyDeleteIMO there was nothing wrong with taking Alberto off at the start of the second half especially if he was not playing well. If anything he can learn from his first half showing. We played Oldham, this was his chance to impress but did not take the opportunity with both hands. He will get more chances.
ReplyDeleteColin Pascoe said a couple of days ago that Alberto was struggling to adapt to the football life in England so that suggests that Alberto will be used sparingly until he is settled.
Rather take baby steps than to see a promising youngster crash and burn which happens to may youngsters nowadays.
Nothing wrong with taking Alberto off. If anything he can learn from the 45 minutes he had on the pitch. We played Oldham so he should have taken the opportunity with both hands and probably did not make enough of an impact.
ReplyDeleteRodgers did say that both the subs of Alberto and Moses were tactical anyway.
Another thing is that Colin Pascoe said a couple of days ago that Alberto has struggled to adapt. Clearly time will be taken with Alberto, rather that than see him fail completely like many other youngsters have.
completely Agreed with the article JK..Taking alberto off for Lucas was absolutely ridiculous decision..Alberto was the better player in the 1st half so how could rodgers afford to take him off to increase the speed of the game by putting lucas on the pitch,Lucas totally immobile player in the squad i'd say so its so hard to believe what kind of man management from rodgers it was...Definitely Alberto going to be a top class players if he handled properly but that sub was really gonna affect his confidence after all..For some reason BR hates Alberto! that's it
ReplyDeleteWere you at Anfield for the Oldham match?
ReplyDeleteAh, yes, but if it was Joe Allen being removed at half time, I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune, and wouldn't be so magnanimous.
ReplyDelete45 mins gone your team has only one shot on target in 45 mins on your home ground. You have a player of gerrards quality in your team and he is unable to contribute in attack as he is playing in defensive role. So what can you do... bring on another DM and let gerrard play a bit further. so we have Lucas for Alberto--> So that Gerrard can be free for making attacking runs and not play in the holding role. This could be one of the possible reasons for the substitution.
ReplyDeleteDo not just criticize someone just for the sake of it, there are tactics and clubs pays millions for this. Alberto is young, developing he played good for 45 mins, but team requirements were not being fulfilled by his presence so he was taken off. They all play for the team and not for just the sake of mins under their belt. Now we are in 4th round and Alberto would play in 4th round for sure so anyway he will get his 45 remaining mins again where do you see the loss.
And this is FA cup where a premier league side was beaten 5-0 by a championship side. We were beaten by them last year and still you doubt their caliber. As far as i had seen in FA cup lots of premier league teams are beaten by rank 57 or 97 teams.
That is not the point I am trying to make.
ReplyDeleteRodgers is not the first manager to make changes after the first half in order to try and win a match? He did so and won us the game.
Do not see why taking Alberto off is such a huge issue. He got 45 minutes and will help him improve. If Alberto had stayed on and we had lost then it would have been far worse as the youngsters are normally the first to get fingers pointed at. That is a confidence destroyer. Look at what happened to Coates when we got beat by Oldham last season. Coates was ripped apart by the fans!!!
Your agenda is transparent: without fail, you take the opposite view to anything perceived to criticise Rodgers, which is what you're doing again here. That's fine, but don't try and hide it. IMO, you don't look at things objectively, you just automatically take a view that directly or indirectly defends BR, irrespective of the issue. In the process, you ignore pertinent issues relating to the discussion at hand.
ReplyDeleteI am not ignoring anything. I am giving my view of how I see the situation. If I was able to watch the match then maybe I would have had a different view.
ReplyDeleteI have criticised Rodgers before for continuing with Gerrard and Lucas in midfield and was right. I have also gone on about Skrtel being a weak link at set pieces. It is not like I am candy coating everything.
Subbing a youngster and bringing on experience to try win a match though?
How many times have you said that one player is no bigger or more important than the club. Rodgers made the decision which he felt he needed to, to ensure the club progressed in the FA Cup. Im sure if BR had left him on and LFC had failed to score and been knocked out you would have been the first to criticize him.
ReplyDeleteLet's remember we are on a tight budget and FSG and Rodgers have said there is no overnight fix here. Anyone expecting all of the players to make an immediate impact are naive, some players just take longer to adapt to a different country and style of play ... Look at Luis Suarez's first 18 months at the club, his record for a £22million player was poor, now he has settled he is a different class
ReplyDeleteSome players take longer to settle, accept it and let the process happen, these people are likely to come good
wtf is Jamie K .... a manc who just wants to cause infighting .... and by the look of all the comments its worked fools !!!! ... admittedly i didnt read it all .... could smell shite from the off
ReplyDeleteYeah agree to a point, but probabilities alone would have suggested we would have been a couple of goals up by halftime. As we know probabilities don't win games.
ReplyDeleteWe win the game and its still not good enough in some people's eyes. What is a manager to do? If we had won the game 10 -0 would you still of complained at Alberto being subbed off at half time. Quite funny that you mention their were absolutely no positives for taking Alberto off at half time but then go straight into the fact we win the game. I'd say that was a pretty decent positive .If we went and won the league this season but Rodgers decided to to take off Saurez and Gerrard at half time in every game to do it who gives a sh*t (we won the league )
ReplyDeleteRodgers doesn't have a clue when it comes to spending on talent players like Alberto and even Llori. Wasted 14m on the duo IMO. How can he not play Alberto for the majority of the game against Oldham to say at least? I mean come on, this really says that BR is overlooking him and not having confidence in him. I feel for him, he is a good prospect player for our club and NEEDS playing time under his belt. I hope FSG won't give Rodgers a single penny to spend on youths next summer. Totally demoralising to youngsters who were signed for the club only to be sitting on the bench or not even selected in the squad during matchdays. I support you JK. Your facts are evident, spot on and well delivered. Good article. Keep it coming man!
ReplyDeleteI've seen them all play and they're just not Liverpool standard, i'm not slagging them off, but they should'nt be at the club, simple. As for Lucas, he's no defensive midfielder, a position that only Rodgers appears to be blind to, most people can't believe he has'nt addressed the matter. Top priority IMO.
ReplyDeleteForget about what league Oldham are in. Anything can happen in a cup match as we know,they knocked us out last year. We needed to up the intensity and pass quicker, Alberto was slow on the ball and we needed the protection of Lucas to allow Gerrard to push slightly further. Whichever way you look at it,Brendan's substitutions worked and got us into the next round. Alberto got 45 minutes under his belt which is better than nothing. He could have left him on the bench and played someone else which would have dented his confidence.He won't be happy about being subbed off but if he's a professional he'll understand it was for the good of the team and he'll try work even harder to stake a claim in the next game.
ReplyDeleteWhat you say makes sense. Some of the replies make no sense!
ReplyDeletei don't think it was public humiliation to take Alberto off. Public humiliation would have been to leave him on and lose the game. I agree that Alberto needs more game time and I'm pretty sure that if we were still in the Carling cup he would get that. The kid has undoubted talent but in my opinion the result was more important than keeping him on just to get minutes. The match wasn't televised so wondering why or how he played is pretty pointless.
ReplyDeleteI did not see the game so can't really comment on Alberto's performance. We won the game scrappilly according to the match reports.
ReplyDeleteThe Alberto signing is somewhat a mystery to me.
You have not seen them play enough. In defense of Lucas, he's yet to hit the heights of his performances since his injury in the Carling Cup a year or two ago, but if he starts playing like that again, I firmly believe he is one of the best DM's in the league, if not the best. When he was playing so well, he dominated Yaya Toure against Man City, his passing range was more expansive and the timing in his tackles were immaculate. I believe he can hit those heights again and I'm sure most LFC fans know exactly what I'm talking about. I completely disagree with your argument.
ReplyDeleteHaving just seen the official highlights, it was plain to see that Alberto was unlucky to be hooked. He had a couple of shots, one of which would've been glorious had it gone in (keeper was rooted!) and played some nice slide-rule passes too. I believe the guy can play.
ReplyDeleteAh yes,a voice of reason in the midst of the storm.
ReplyDeleteI agree that hooking Alberto at half time was harsh but once again you demonstrate your football ignorance.
ReplyDeleteLucas for Alberto was not a like for like change. Gerrard moved into Alberto's position.
Are we also at training who knows what he does at training.
ReplyDeleteAttitude Character
I think "humiliation" is a strong word. Pascoe said the other day that Alberto was struggling with the pace of the Premiership, and while Oldham weren't providing Premiership quality opposition, it would have been humiliating for Rodgers and LFC if we had ended up not winning at Anfield.
ReplyDeleteI believe the substitution was purely tactical. Rodgers said that we needed to control the game better and I believe that meant letting Stevie off the leash; and that meant putting a defensive midfielder on so that Stevie could push up and have more influence in the final 3rd. Subbing Alberto for Lucas makes complete sense if indeed setting Stevie free was the plan.
As for Alberto's feelings; he's a professional and if the substitution was designed tactically as I've described then he would understand that. He's young and he knows he's going to get more chances.
As for Rodgers' success or otherwise in the transfer market, I think Allen is starting to show signs of getting back to his best, and his best is really very good but not world-class; Sakho is looking more comfortable every game; Mignolet has had a blip but otherwise has been a fantastic addition; Touré started well but has been a bit of a liability in the last 2 games he's played (in my own opinion); Ilori is supposed to be one for the future and obviously we cannot say whether he's going to be any good because we haven't seen him; Aspas is behind Sturridge and Suárez for the striker role and it's a shame that we went out of the Carling Cup so early because him and Alberto could have had chances to shine there. I think the only real failures have been Moses and Cissokho and thank god that they are only loanees.
So,so true .An absolute un-interested individual from the day he was signed,I remember him sitting in the stand with the look of ''What is a player of my stature(African Player of the Year!) doing here?''.
ReplyDeleteAgree, Jaimie. I believe Rogers believed Alberto had potential when he signed him. From what I see Alberto is a very decent player with good technical skills and could develop into a fine player, well, if played more regularly. Ironically, Lucas have always been given the opportunity to play even when his performance was well below the requirements of the the first team and he turned out a good player. Cannot see the logic why Alberto is treated like a second-rate player....
ReplyDeleteJaimie there is a massive difference between not trusting someone and wanting to change things in a way they are either unable to do or just aren't doing. Truth is Rodgers is with the kid in training and knows what he has told him to do. If Alberto is not fulfilling what he is told then Rodgers is doing the right thing taking him off/not playing him. Some people respond to the arm around the shoulder others respond to being dropped pr not playing. We don't know how best to train footballers. Rodgers knows much more than we do.
ReplyDeleteTruth is we needed a goal, we needed not to draw or lose that game. Not after last year. Rodgers had ideas of how best to do it and sentimentality or worrying about the how the player will take it is a side note. For all we know after the game or even half time Rodgers may have given Alberto a speech that made him feel like he was the best player in the world. We simply don't know but spurious assertions of humiliation are simply ludicrous. As are "if he is not going to play him why buy him" shouts. All players are signed and are a gamble to some degree. I would much rather we didn't play players that are not ready or never will be than continuously playing players who don't deserve their place.
I didn't see the game and I am not sure how Alberto was playing or how the game was going and whether it changed much.
According to your comment Alberto had it in for Rodgers not the other way round....is there a wrong way to be rubbed up?
ReplyDeleteLucas had a relatively stronger squad around him. In that compared to the other teams in the league. Now are goals (top four) is just as if not more important but the competition is better. Gerard is past his peak, Lucas is no Alonso, Suarez may be better than Torres at his bets but the core of the team is weaker. We can't afford to carry anyone that is either not performing to level needed or not doing exactly what is instructed of them.
ReplyDeleteThere may be "nothing to suggest" that wouldn't have but there is nothing to suggest it would. If we performed better without him it may simply be that we needed particular players of which he was not one. Could be more about the players coming on than those coming off?
ReplyDeleteWhy did Chelsea buy Torres? Why buy any player that doesn't work out? Probably because if they could see the future they wouldn't be working for a living.
ReplyDeleteThe attitude in the team and perhaps manager worries me. I feel we don't turn up too many times against teams we should beat. The wrong kind of arrogance in the side. I feel that is a much bigger point than this near non issue.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. The article is far too simplistic.
ReplyDeleteDepressing stuff. It's creeping back all over the country as far as I can tell. What did you make of Alberto's performance and the substitution since you are one of the very few people here who actually saw it?
ReplyDeletePatience oh fickle ones. He'll come good. I think BR has sent Suso out this year and will send Luis out next year. He's 20 years old!!! All part of the masterplan. I don't think Ray Kennedy played for the first 6 months he was at Liverpool and he arrived from a double winning side. I understand the frustration as I rate him and I'd like to see him play more, but I'd like to think BR knows a little better than we do.
ReplyDeleteAgree...nothing to see here...move along. BR makes decisions and the team carries them out. Nobody has to like the decisions, but BR is responsible for the team's performance.
ReplyDeleteQuotes from Rodgers; "They have to contribute - I can't rely on 11, 12 players"
ReplyDelete"Obviously Lucas and Coutinho have played all of the Christmas period,
hard games, so the ideal scenario would have been to let them recover.
But we also wanted to win the game, we didn't want a replay. Second half
we were more lively in our game and ended up with a good victory,
This suggests he didn't want to play Lucas and Coutinho but felt that the team as a whole and perhaps those players subbed were not doing enough to win the game. Could the problem be how hard they worked? Contribution?
Rodgers' comments are totally unfair. He's scapegoated Alberto here to hide his own shortcomings. He has spent over £100m in the transfer market and his team is struggling to beat Oldham at HOME?! It's his fault, not Alberto's. Squad depth is poor because Rodgers has wasted tens of millions on poor players.
ReplyDeleteSo either Alberto is wasted money or he should have stayed on which and not been "humiliated" by Rodgers. Which is it Jaimie? can't be both. If he is a waste then taking him off was a good idea, if he was playing well and contributing perhaps he is not a waste. My problem is less with the team that was out, which should be able to beat Oldham and more with the mentality of the players which Is a very fair criticism of Rodgers. As for Waste's of money in "poor squad depth" one purchase scored and another played (Toure) and has barely put a foot wrong since arriving.
ReplyDeleteYou say Rodgers is scapegoating, where? It sound to me like he is saying those players signed need to step up. You can't say that Moses doesn't have the ability to contribute more. Alberto has ability but according to Pascoe isn't settling in as much as would be liked, For me Jaimie you read what you want in to things far to often to fit what you have thought. It's working backwards mate. Occam's razor.
I got bored of reading the comments as the writer keeps repeating himself. I couldn't bare to see 'League One relegation fodder' again.. But I agree with BR in that Alberto and Moses were not performing and he didn't want us to crash out to Oldham for the second year running. All we have is the FA Cup and POSSIBLY the Premier League for silverware this season. Why risk losing out on one to keep a young player, not yet grasping English football more of a chance than he needed?
ReplyDeleteIt was 0-0 when he got the hook. We won 2-0 so it is obvious to me that it made a difference. But, hey? Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story.
ReplyDeleteWhen are you going grasp this simple concept: I read what I want into things because that is my right. I have opinions like everyone else, so perhaps you should learn to deal with it.
ReplyDeleteIt may be your right it's just not right.
ReplyDeleteAlberto has good technique but is so slow that he will be less able to damage the opposition when he gets the ball.
ReplyDeleteJamie, when Rodgers was appointed you were happy enough singing his praises and that he was the right man for the job, I said at the same time his transfer dealings were not great but you were too busy questioning the dealings of previous managers, no manager gets it right all the time, for every decent signing that makes the first team it is inevitable there will be a few failures, it's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. There are plenty of big name players that haven't made it in the prem. I never wanted Rodgers in the first place but here we are with a realistic shot at champions league and still in the FA Cup, I take my hat off, he's doing ok, were now playing some lovely attractive attacking football for the first time in years and the team has gelled into a decent side. His half time changes obviously worked as we went on to win 2 - 0, the end product/result alone justifies his decision, he did what he is paid to do an that my friend is to manage our team.
ReplyDeleteOh but it did serve a purpose
ReplyDeleteNot going to argue against most of what you have said as its pretty spot on, I still think your criticism is harsh as we won the game after the changes. And for the record I am a fan of Alberto but I think he needs to bring a bit more urgency to his game.
ReplyDeleteAnyways till the next time take it easy.
What does he do on the training field play marbles... ? As I watched the match sterling with the ball on many occasions playing infield towards goal and what does Alberto do , he goes wide instead of running behind the defence so that sterling could pass to him for shot on goal or cross to his teammate he deserved to be hauled off..
ReplyDeleteYou lambaste Rodgers for wasting money on players (I could be wrong but I am assuming that you mean they are not good enough), then you lambaste Rodgers for not giving the very same not good enough players playing time, Even though they don't show enough quality to warrant more playing time. Do you want Rodgers to fire himself by playing the not good enough players more so that we can lose?
ReplyDeleteIn my view it was a good decision to get both players off. The managers job is first and foremost to get the best for Liverpool FC and in this case the best for us was to win and get trough, possibly with out extra time or having to play an extra match.
ReplyDeleteAs for your question if Liverpool could have beaten Oldham with Alberto in the team no one could tell but history showed us that unless the manager takes action you could end up out of the cup in no time even against Oldham as it happened a year ago.
As for the player it's true that it can be a sour grape but he is payed big time for that. And if he looks at the positive side there is a big probability that he can now play another game against our next opponents in the F.A Cup.
I don't expect not have my views questioned. I welcome it, but repeatedly moaning about the nature of someone's opinion is not really debate. If you disagree with a view, argue against that view, not the thought-process underpinning it.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, I am rigid when it comes to certain LFC beliefs, but that's the same for everyone, including you :-)
seeing as you didn't see the game, your opinion on the matter is pointless.. what do you do exactly,, urmmm? oh yeah pass judgement from afar.. well done, your doing a grand job.. I can only surmise from this that you know better than a man actually involved on a daily basis.. Prehaps he just like Moses aren't any good... it wouldn't be the first time a player hasn't lived up to his billing.. Just ask Chelsea on Torres and Shevchenko..
ReplyDeleteThere is no way of knowing if we would have won the game or not. (Cup upsets happen) But the fact is we won the game after the substitution and he's decision paid off. It's not a matter of Alberto's feelings, it's a matter of the clubs progression in a cup we should want to win! I doubt BR wants to damage Alberto's confidence but he has to do what's right for the club not the individual. You could say any player who didn't get picked today doesn't have the managers trust because they wasn't chosen. He picks a team he thinks he can win the game and made changes when it wasn't going to plan, good management IMO.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a bit unfair. Having finally watched the game I think I can confidently say that Alberto had a pretty good half. Probably the biggest threat at goal. Delivered a beautiful ball to Aspas (who I thought was equally good) just before the half ended too. But clearly Gerrard was having very little impact; ergo bring Lucas on to push Gerrard further forward and the difference was massive. Dont think Alberto will be too upset. Hes still young and he'll probably get a chance against Bournemouth/Burton.
ReplyDeleteMoses on the other hand; looks like he doesnt give a ... yes well. Send him home.
Who's Liverpool's best player after Suarez and Coutinho
ReplyDeleteBringing on coutinho for moses, adds creativity!
ReplyDeleteBringing on Lucas balances the team and gives Gerrard the opportunity to move forward more often! Brendan will have a chat with Alberto and will give him more opportunities in the future. Don't forget Brendan is a good man-manager! The only sub this season I did not get was bringing on Smith in the Chelsea game! But I'm convinced Brendan is a very good manager! But the fact that you slag off people who disagree with you bothers me! People have the right to have an own opinion! And more and more I disagree with your opinions! They get more negative by the day! Time for a selfie and getting back to the basics of supporting our wonderful club!
I did along the way just got side tracked and moaned about a frustrating (IM0) trait.
ReplyDeleteI totally understand that - it's human nature.
ReplyDeleteI did YouTube the highlights and LA took one curling shot early on that just barely missed the upper right corner. The keeper had no chance. It was a good chance on the spur and it was a good one in that he had little time to react, was composed, knew what he wanted to do but just missed.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it more significant that is was half time? As in it shows it was a tactical change rather than pulling the player off in front of the whole crowd and it being more personal?
ReplyDeleteDo you think if we were winning comfortably he would have took him off? Whats more important showing you have confidence in a player or winning a game? If the manager does his job and feels that different players who offer different things can come in and add to the game why would he not make that decision? Next game in the cup I have no doubt that Alberto will get another go and if we are winning or the manager feels that it is other players he needs to replace I am sure he will. A player literally bought for the future "Rodgers words" getting subbed off in a tactical move to win the game should not be scrutinised so much. Rodgers has given game time to plenty of youngsters. When they have been performing they stayed in, when they were not they were out. This very basic bit of the game that I am absolutely certain Rodgers has more knowledge and experience in than you me and Jaimie put together is something we can all speculate on but all we can actually judge it on is results. Those results will not be apparent for a while unfortunately but I think Sterling is a good example. Is given a chance and does well. Becomes a mainstay. Starts to decline and gets dropped. Is given another chance and is now one of our better players. What will Alberto be like in a year? Who knows? We would just be guessing.
ReplyDeleteSorry to take so long to get back to you, mate - first day back at work..... :( !!!
ReplyDeleteAlberto looked tidy. He's a good passer of the ball and has great touch and skill (he bounced the ball off his thigh over the head of an Oldham player then trapped the rebound, which was pretty cool). The problem he has is that he is a bit one-paced, and because the whole team lacked urgency he was always going to be the ideal candidate for a subbing (after Moses).
Gerrard was bawling at all of them to step up the pace, but nobody seemed prepared (or able) to. I thought Oldham would press us and close us down early on, but they seemed happy keeping their two banks of 5 to see if we could break them down. Which we couldn't.
It was crying out for a change, and because Rodgers obviously needs to give Suarez a rest then Coutinho was the no-brainer to come on for Moses. But when Coutinho plays then we need some discipline in midfield, so unfortunately Alberto was sacrificed for Lucas. And it did work, because they had no answer to Coutinho's movement - even if his shooting is scarily bad (Brazilian, my arse).
When all is said and done, the game was meandering to a stalemate, yet within 10 mins of the subs coming on, we had scored and looked to be going through pretty comfortably, if not spectacularly. Which is all that really matters.
Incidentally, we finished with 9 men. Agger limped off with 10 mins to play (we had used all 3 subs) and for the last minute or so Kelly just limped about. Suarez also played a walk-on part and worryingly looked like he was hobbling.
They call me the Voice of Reason at work. They obviously think irony is lost on me..... :)
ReplyDeleteI have seen the highlights myself. Tried to find the full match but have not been able to up to now. That was a good shot and good all round move actually but I can't make an opinion on how he was playing or us as a team without seeing the whole game. The internet as a whole has spoilt me. I have been used to seeing games multiple times or at least being able to watch the ones I miss due to work. This time has been frustrating.
ReplyDeletePity he can't do that for his son..... !!!!
ReplyDeleteWhere did you see the game I have been trying.
ReplyDeleteOldham had to double-up on him which consequently left more room for Gerrard to receive and give his passes. But Coutinho has no discipline which is why Lucas had to come on and therefore Alberto was sacrificed. A shame, but the end always justifies everything else.
ReplyDeleteAnd if Coutinho couldn't do better than Moses then he should retire.
I might consider yanking Raheem off if would start putting away some of the chances that are being created for him !!!
ReplyDeletePublic humiliation would be to replace him with Moses.
ReplyDeleteYes, it was a good effort. But that was the ONLY highlight from the first half, which is why changes needed to be made at half time.
ReplyDeleteDon't bother finding the full match. Trust me.
ReplyDeleteOn a day when we had a minute's silence / applause for Wayne Harrison (a lad who was cruelly robbed of his chance to play for LFC, and later had his very life cruelly cut short) I found Moses' performance an absolute DISGRACE.
ReplyDeleteI agree; send him back.
Don't bother. Seriously, I'm not joking. Have an early night......
ReplyDeleteCome on.... be a real man for once. Front me in person!!
ReplyDeletehttp://us10.chatzy.com/28291548578882
Jamie it looks like this article is using a controversial headline to grab readers from sites like NewsNow, rather than make a valuable contribution to a debate surrounding the game (but I guess you've been relatively successful if that is the case, as there seems to be plenty of riled contributors posting).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, putting that to one side, to say Alberto feels 'humilited' and Rogers decided to publicly 'embarass' him by subbing him at half time is ridiculous and you make it sound like Rogers has set out to be vindictive towards the player.
If Rogers had ordered him to go out and play the second half in his underwear, I'd agree he would be publicly embarrassing the player. But to equate a half time substitution to a public humiliation is ridiculous. Whether Rogers subbed him because he thought Alberto was having a poor game, or whether it was for tactically reasons matters not. Either way being subbed at half time does not amount to a public humilation. Alberto's a professional and he will have to deal with plenty tougher circumstances in his career. If he's determined he'll come back stronger to prove Rogers wrong - so maybe it was a great bit of man management on Rogers' half. If a young player can't deal with being subbed at half-time he's unlikely to have a future at Liverpool.
Can I ask where my post has gone? I was not rude or offensive to you or any other poster. If you have to 'review' every post before putting it on your site, and pull one's you don't agree with then this site is not worth reading. I take it I was correct about your controversial headline purpose being to attract readers from NewsNow rather than make a valauble contribution to a debate surrounding Liverpool FC. And that was the reason for you pulling my post?
ReplyDeletePoor.
When I looked at the team and saw about six second string players on the team I was fearing another Burnley style exit from the Cup. But the team eventually succeeded and for that we should be pleased.
ReplyDeleteWith 20/20 hindsight I am at a loss to know why BR went out and bought those young players in the summer if he had no intention of playing them.
It seems even more odd that he bought them in and sent Suso & Assidi out on loan - I believe he should have been inducing them into the team to experience the much vaunted BR "philosophy" and style of play rather than ploughing furrows in foreign lands and other premier division teams. I fully agree that I would have been deflated to experience that treatment but I'm sure BR explained his intentions before the start if the team were not winning at half-time. I suppose they will accept that 'half a loaf is better than no bread'. I wish them well for their future at Anfield.