Liverpool MD Ian Ayre claimed yesterday that the Reds lost out on the Mohamed Salah transfer because the player decided that 'he didn't want to to come to Liverpool'. That may be true, but the question is 'why'? Salah's Agent has shed some light on the issue, and it seems that Liverpool's dithering is main reason the club lost out on the deal.
Speaking to reporters yesterday, Ayre insisted that 'you win some and lose some' when it comes to transfers', but claimed:
“We haven’t been held back by finances. The player [Salah] decided he didn’t want to come to Liverpool.
“We won’t overpay for players, but when the right player is available for the right deal and wants to come here, they will come here”
When asked last night about why Salah ended up at Chelsea, his agent Sascha Empacher, barked:
“It was a long and fair negotiation with Liverpool, but it lasted two-and-a-half months - too long. Both clubs [LFC and Basel] could not agree on terms. When Chelsea contacted Basel, he was happy and took his chance. It was no financial matter.”
Based on Empacher's comments, Liverpool began negotiations for Salah in November (!), which gave the club a massive head-start on Chelsea, yet a deal could still not be concluded. Why? Possible options:
* LFC tried to lowball Basel into accepting a lower fee. Empacher states it wasn't financial, but he's possibly referring to Salah's salary demands there, rather than the actual transfer fee.
* Non-financial contract terms could not be agreed (Length of deal; image rights etc).
* Ayre et al couldn't sell the club effectively to Salah.
* LFC endlessly negotiated, and failed to make an actual offer.
Whatever the reason, it's rank negligence if you ask me. According to the BBC, the initial transfer fee is £11m, which seems very affordable, and is basically the going rate for young, promising attacking midfielders. Hell, Lucas Podolski and Olivier Giroud - experience internationals - went for similar amounts, and they are older than Salah.
If, as Empacher suggests, 'it was no financial matter', then why did LFC's negotiations fail? If Ayre et al spend two-and-a-half-months negotiating over a player, it clearly means he's a priority for the club, but Chelsea turned up at the eleventh hour, and seemingly negotiated a deal in a couple of days. Amateur hour.
For me, the key questions is this: If LFC were not willing to pay the fee Basel wanted, why waste 2.5 months 'negotiating'? Why not just switch to a different transfer target?
There is, understandably a great deal of antipathy from fans over the collapse of the Salah deal, but it's not the loss of the player that's the main issue; it's LFC's repeated inability to follow-through with negotiations and actually seal a major transfer deal.
Ian Ayre is heavily involved with negotiating deals, and once again, his negligence is exposed, just like it was with Dempsey, Sigurdsson, and over the summer with Willian/Costa/Mkhitaryan etc.
Ayre can go on about how LFC will not 'overpay' for players all he likes, but the bottom line is clear: LFC have failed yet again to sign another significant transfer target; wasted almost three months of valuable time in the process, and left the club in a position where a Champions League place may now be under threat.
Given the injury situation, and the failure of LFC's summer signings, things look bleak at the moment. However, Brendan Rodgers got LFC to the top of the table with the current squad, and when players return to fitness - plus the added boost of Daniel Sturridge - there's no reason why the club can't replicate that form in the second part of the season...is there?
Author: Jaimie K
Speaking to reporters yesterday, Ayre insisted that 'you win some and lose some' when it comes to transfers', but claimed:
“We haven’t been held back by finances. The player [Salah] decided he didn’t want to come to Liverpool.
“We won’t overpay for players, but when the right player is available for the right deal and wants to come here, they will come here”
When asked last night about why Salah ended up at Chelsea, his agent Sascha Empacher, barked:
“It was a long and fair negotiation with Liverpool, but it lasted two-and-a-half months - too long. Both clubs [LFC and Basel] could not agree on terms. When Chelsea contacted Basel, he was happy and took his chance. It was no financial matter.”
Based on Empacher's comments, Liverpool began negotiations for Salah in November (!), which gave the club a massive head-start on Chelsea, yet a deal could still not be concluded. Why? Possible options:
* LFC tried to lowball Basel into accepting a lower fee. Empacher states it wasn't financial, but he's possibly referring to Salah's salary demands there, rather than the actual transfer fee.
* Non-financial contract terms could not be agreed (Length of deal; image rights etc).
* Ayre et al couldn't sell the club effectively to Salah.
* LFC endlessly negotiated, and failed to make an actual offer.
Whatever the reason, it's rank negligence if you ask me. According to the BBC, the initial transfer fee is £11m, which seems very affordable, and is basically the going rate for young, promising attacking midfielders. Hell, Lucas Podolski and Olivier Giroud - experience internationals - went for similar amounts, and they are older than Salah.
If, as Empacher suggests, 'it was no financial matter', then why did LFC's negotiations fail? If Ayre et al spend two-and-a-half-months negotiating over a player, it clearly means he's a priority for the club, but Chelsea turned up at the eleventh hour, and seemingly negotiated a deal in a couple of days. Amateur hour.
For me, the key questions is this: If LFC were not willing to pay the fee Basel wanted, why waste 2.5 months 'negotiating'? Why not just switch to a different transfer target?
There is, understandably a great deal of antipathy from fans over the collapse of the Salah deal, but it's not the loss of the player that's the main issue; it's LFC's repeated inability to follow-through with negotiations and actually seal a major transfer deal.
Ian Ayre is heavily involved with negotiating deals, and once again, his negligence is exposed, just like it was with Dempsey, Sigurdsson, and over the summer with Willian/Costa/Mkhitaryan etc.
Ayre can go on about how LFC will not 'overpay' for players all he likes, but the bottom line is clear: LFC have failed yet again to sign another significant transfer target; wasted almost three months of valuable time in the process, and left the club in a position where a Champions League place may now be under threat.
Given the injury situation, and the failure of LFC's summer signings, things look bleak at the moment. However, Brendan Rodgers got LFC to the top of the table with the current squad, and when players return to fitness - plus the added boost of Daniel Sturridge - there's no reason why the club can't replicate that form in the second part of the season...is there?
Author: Jaimie K
the only transfer we'd get would be gloria jeans as our coffee partner because that's the only damn thing that Ian Ayre knows how to close.
ReplyDeleteShit.. 2 and half months, what were they smoking?
ReplyDeleteYou sound aussie too...
ReplyDeletewell said Jamie, im a reader on your site and you get a lot of stick! but I think its cos you hit the nail on the head most times that annoys our supporters! this carry on with transfers if crazy! we've a super chance to get top 4 and the money that comes with it! but if we fail we'll lose luis and maybe a couple of older players and have to go backwards to go forward! I feel for Brendan (who ive met few years before lfc manager) and you can feel his frustration which I beleave will amount to one day a huge fall out with the yanks and that would be the biggest setback! jojo.
ReplyDeleteSaid it before, I'll say it again.. This is a massive blunder by Ian Ayre/FSG/Rodgers - whoever. Not only are we losing a talented player to a direct rival, it affects the 'feel-good' factor there's been around anfield so far this season. We are skint to the bone in terms of players- Agger, Sakho, Allen, Lucas, Johnson, Flano, Enrique, Gerrard, Coutinho. Sturridge etc have all missed large chuncks of the season - and luckily for us we have managed to scrape by and still be at 4th spot. However, with Spurs, Everton etc in top form - we are being pushed to the limit here. We need support up front, and we need it in the back. Without it, we'll see our team being dismantled to the extent where we have to depend on Flano, Sterling, Coutinho, Kelly etc for starting line ups. Average age of 20? This is not the way Liverpool should be. That being said, we should go for a midfielder and a left back more than anything else. We don't need another winger before the summer imo.
ReplyDeleteGloria Jeans ain't even that good!
ReplyDeleteAyre must be sacked as soon as possible. He is shit negotiating with clubs and agents.
ReplyDeleteAyre is too cautious and out of touch for modern football. He is a liability. we have a golden opportunity to qualify for the CL and badly damage the other 3 clubs running for 4th spot. Not to exploit this opportunity is criminal. He has a track record in messing up, why i she still in a job?
ReplyDeleteStill remembered the Carrol, Fowning, Henderson days lol. We squandered millions but the feeling was better than losing out on main targets all the time. It seems we are most interested to sign commercial contracts than players. It's like the good old Parry days. Kept talking about targets but never signed anyone useful. Even the Snoogy Doogy days we managed to sign Torres. I still remembered that Ian's analogy of marquee signing is Sakho this summer lol, it's the epic trolling this season.
ReplyDeletebetter than starbucks
ReplyDeleteAhhh, procrastination; the thief of time. We all knew this was the problem, and this confirms it. Too much arsing about. While in some ways I admire out refusal to pay over the odds, we're talking about a deal for £11 million here, hardly a fortune (in modern footballing terms). If you want a player, go and get it done, and don't waste everybody's precious time. The worst thing about this is that I feel it reflects the club in a poor light.
ReplyDeleteDunkin doughnuts, Auxhalle, Garuda, you have to admit it Ian Ayre is very good in finance, so good that we don't need to spend.
ReplyDeleteThat's what we need to keep Ayre for. But we need someone with better football negotiating skills it seems.
ReplyDeleteI think dealing with players agents and clubs is a different beast to dealing with polite and sophisticated TNC executives.
ReplyDeletewell, This will put to rest the doubts of BR cynics out there. Also BR and Ayre were contradicting yesterday. Simple fact is the balloon head Accountant is only interested in dishing out commercial deals and f**ing has footballing priorities
ReplyDeleteAyre is the only person on the Liverpool board that has ever had anything to do with football. He should be maintained for the commercial side of things and we should bring in a real CEO.
ReplyDeleteEven a guy called Jeffrey Vinik is on our board of directors, he owns two American sports teams, nothing to do with football. Are these the people we want to sit at a big round desk and guide our club? Something needs to be sorted out.
Ayres great at signing sponsors signed 3 in a month but cant get a player i think someone else needs to come in for transfers.
ReplyDeleteI think the injuries and tired efforts recently mean without a fresh injection of talent the club cannot emulate the first half seasons efforts.
Always read here, watched the discussions and thought it was all too negative.
ReplyDeleteBut now, have to agree with you.
Rubbish negotiating, possible agendas, I,e. maybe want to keep investment low, maybe want us NOT to get champ league so can sell Suarez. Who knows.
One thing certain, as far as Red Sox concerned when they want to buy a player they pay any price. Just not with LFC.
They've tied Rodgers hands and made him look a fool.
Three months!
Ridiculous.
Mourhinio may be Machiavellian but then play his game. They should know not to give over a player scouted for so long so easily.
Ian Ayre is a pillock.
Nothing beats your own. Something has got to keep you up during those horrible 3:30am kick offs.
ReplyDeleteI like how a new article is up and we are onto it in a flash :)
Just goes to show Rodgers has no control on transfer dealings (probably why Martinez turned the job down). Ayre has shown himself as an inept, lackluster ditherer. He should be out after this latest debacle. Rodgers has to shoulder some blame too, he signed Allen, Aspas, Alberto, Assaidi and Borini, that's £45 Million! plus Moses and Sissokho on loan, all not the standard we're used to and they don't play, so moaning about missed transfer deals is rich coming from him. Good job Suarez stayed (not much longer) or he'd have been gone by now. Be interesting how Suarez reacts to yet another failed transfer window, bet he does'nt put in half the effort he did first half the season.
ReplyDeleteThis is peak hour aussie internet usage traffic Pete!
ReplyDeleteLFC need to urgently review the competency of Ayre & his committee of 'money men.' Their inability to conclude a deal has become farcical & Salah's agent's comments shine a glaring light on this. Their Scrooge like attitude to parting with cash is a hindrance to the team's development & their negotiating skills (two & a half months!!) a bad joke. Get rid FSG & put someone more realistic when it come to pricing, & shrewd & savvy when it comes to dealing, in place.
ReplyDeleteNo excuses any more! Ayre needs to go surely!
ReplyDeleteIMO this is becoming a serious concern. FSG need to relieve Ayre of transfer duties as appoint a proper football man to handle negotiations. There are quite a few experienced men around that can do the job. Could we even tempt Rosell to come to Anfield? David Dein?
ReplyDeleteCome on, 2 half months for a transfer and Chelsea get it sorted in a matter of days? What is Ayre doing?
People seem to forget that this has been our best chance of top 4 since 09 and we seem to be throwing it away (if we lose vs Everton today all hell will break loose lol!)
We seriously need some midfielders and our injuries seem to get worse and worse honestly.
Flannagan is back which is good even though I never thought I would say that but fair play to him. Also, he is a tidy defender but let's not go the gross overpraise path again.
Is it time to drop Coutinho?
Cissokho..what can I say about him..extremelly average. Prefer one of our young lads instead.
Let's please sign one player at least. Mid specially. Would not mind to see Ince back as well.
Exactly my thoughts Greg mate
ReplyDeleteIt's quite clear: both clubs could not agree on terms. That's not to do with the player at all. It's about the deal between the two clubs which can only mean the fee, the add-ons or the way the payment is to be arranged. As has been the case all along - Basel valued the player at 16 million and Liverpool at 8. After 2 and a half months they could not find a middle ground. Chelsea were willing to pay more so the deal was done. Why is that even a surprise, let alone a problem?
ReplyDeleteI can only guess that people on here have never bought anything of value in their life. When you buy a house you always have an upper value on your spending. You have a limit that represents where you are prepared to go with it. If it's an auction or a negotiation process that limit always applies. You go as far as you can but if you can't get the deal done then you don't get it done. You don't then go down the pub and get slated by your mates for being negligent or incompetent. You went to the market with a value that you worked out and you didn't make the purchase. So you move on. You find another place, you make another judgement on the value and you try for another deal.
Ben Smith of the BBC very clearly contradicted that 11 million pound amount later on his own twitter feed, you know that, and yet you still quote it. The fee for the player, in total, is clearly at least 15 million, nearly twice Liverpool's initial valuation. But of course these part time transfer experts know best. Ian Ayre runs LFC on a daily basis but you guys are obviously smarter than him. Give me a break.
It's funny how we're talking about coffee in the scheme of things. This is aussie internet peak hour traffic pete
ReplyDeleteHang on, I just researched gloria jeans, and it turns out it was founded in the US....owned by the aussies...
ReplyDeleteWho are we to believe? It's bad enough that we lost out on this transfer, but on top of that, if Ayre has lied as to the reason why, then his words discredit it him even more.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, lessons never seem to be learned at Anfield. Injuries aside, the squad is painfully thin, by Rodger's own admission. I find it hard to believe that no suitable acquistions can be made in this window. Surely the fault lies with the incompetent transfer committee. The actions are not in keeping with a push for a top 4 spot. If we don't make it this year, who will be blamed? Whose head will roll?
You get what you pay for, that's why we got Allen, Aspas, Alberto, Assaidi, Borini.....and they were over priced! Plus the money wasted on Sissokho and Moses (both dire).
ReplyDeleteExplain to me how a different man at the negotiating table could have gotten the two clubs closer? Liverpool valued the player at 8 million, Basel at 16. The player was sold for, depending on what source you look to, 15 or 16 million. So what would a different negotiator have done?
ReplyDeletelol are you Ian Ayre in disguise? I agree with your comment but maybe Liverpool are too intent on a bargain and they maybe under value some of their targets, the owners are probably paranoid about making the same mistake they made by letting Dalglish and Comolli run riot with a blank cheque book!
ReplyDeleteWell most of us are smart enough to know well before two and a half months are up that we arent going to get a knockdown price.
ReplyDeleteBusiness is about results its a tough world out there and if you dont get results your out.
cant see Salahs' agent lying, it's true we've been 2 months in negotiations and Chelsea in 24 hours!
ReplyDeleteOr Basle wanted to much and kept stalling to keep their options open. If they feel he's worth £5 mil more than Liverpool where offering then why settle. Drag it out over the transfer period to give others the option to enquire. Chelsea don't need to watch the bank balance and everyone knows they pay over the odds for players, same thing happened with William. Liverpool offered a fair price, Chelsea offered more coz they could. I don't see what the issue is. If you buy a house you offer what its worth, if someone richer comes along and offers more then so be it, move on. They can't buy buy all th houses!!
ReplyDeleteBy the way, this isn't me using a dodgy alter ego. Just another bloke who happens to make sense.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I believe Ayre to be the liar. Better to just say nothing.
ReplyDeleteOnce the window opened, the deal could've and should've been sealed asap. Continuous dithering and Chelsea decided to come in after agreeing to sell Mata. A different (better) negotiator could've wrapped it up once the window opened (or even before, unofficially).
ReplyDeleteLied about what? The player decided to go to Chelsea.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what you say and also agree with the principle of the methodology of our transfers. I like it a lot, it makes sense. However the comment by jojo has a good point, Rodgers signed two of his favoured players, Allen and Borini without hesitation or much complication. Especially in regards to Allen, a supposed embargo was breached between Rodgers and Swansea just to sign him. Both players were overpriced. So if these transfers can go through, why then, during a time of need and importance can we not make deals happen this window?
ReplyDeleteLet's use Salah's price: 15M. That was enough to sign Allen and Borini. A few Mill more and you've got Henderson.
I wouldn't blame anyone at the club for withholding some cash after some of Rodger's mistakes in the market...But either this new method of evaluating transfers has been put into place recently (because it was most certainly not in place during BR's first season) or Rodgers has lost quite a bit of control at the club.
Sounds about right, we all were wondering wtf was taking so long as the weeks went by (being cheap and stupid), the deal should have been done first days of Jan.
ReplyDeleteInstead of positive progress with the feelgood factor of having actually been top of the prem twice so far (unexpected, but more than welcomed), our idiots like flirting with the self destruct buttons.
We have already lost ground on the top three, the others are now neck and neck with us for fourth.
Leading us back to some glory years on the cheap ?? Oh FSG it's turning into a joke !!
Some advice for our owners/decision makers, you are at Liverpool FC please act and behave like you understand that.
What, with some kind of negotiator magic? What would the fee have been? Please enlighten me on how precisely that would have worked!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Adam!..but according to Ian Ayre Salah didn't want to come! So why chasing a guy for 2 and a half months if he didn't want to come? Somebody is lying! I wonder who...!! :)
ReplyDeletePeople are saying with the injuries we really need players in yet say we should have gone all out for Salah.
ReplyDeleteSalah is a winger and an attacker, that is the one area where we have plenty of players available so how signing a winger would have helped i'm not sure. I can still see a DM being purchased before the window shuts, i would expect us to get the 'small matter' of the derby played and then make some more moves in the transfer marker.
About the reason why the player ended up at Chelsea. He states finances wasn't the reason.
ReplyDeleteBut doesn't it then just come down to each player valuation? I don't think LFC was being cheap, I think they genuinely put Salah's value at 8 million and capped it at an absolute MAX of 11. Now Rodgers is quoted as saying Allen is a bargain at 15 million. Obviously they also valued Sakho at a suitably high price. I'm not saying mistakes on valuations were never made but at the end of the day don't we have to accept what valuation the club put on the player? If Liverpool think he's an 8 million pound player then, right or wrong, that's what they think. Like Ayre said, they all agree on that, probably before they even approach the selling club.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few out there suggesting that Rodgers is privately "fuming" at this, and I'm sure he's frustrated, but if the valuation of the player was at 8 million then he must have had a say in that. If not then he simply shouldn't be the manager, he should just leave, and I can't see it being the case that he's given up his part in that process. So Rodgers would actually agree with what has happened here, wouldn't he? It sounds to me very much like it was a club decision to put a clear cap on the player value and stick by that, not just Ayre or FSG being cheap, and certainly not just down to "incompetent" negotiating.
This is the problem with single line quotes for me, they don't make sense. Surely Ayre is referring to the simple fact that the player decided to go to Chelsea. When a player decides to sign a contract with Chelsea then he doesn't want to come to Liverpool. It's a bit pedantic but it sounds to me like Ayre is just letting off steam after a long and frustrating process. A bit of sour grapes.
ReplyDeleteMaccas food may be crap but their coffee rules.
ReplyDeleteForget the 11 Million, i would think it was wages that were more of a stumbling block, Liverpool now bring players in on lower wage deals and then give them bigger deals depending on performance. This is to avoid players being on big wages and then no succeeding but us not being able to move them on as they are happy to collect the large wage packet at LFC. Aquilani, Cole, Voronin, etc
ReplyDeleteIt makes no sense ....
ReplyDeleteThis team was on TOP of a very ,very competitive league on Christmas day and if not for a slightly better bench and better reffing could have walked away with at LEAST 2 points and keep Man city and Chelsea close to us ....
Sooo come Jan you would think any owners who claim to have money to compete with the best ( Ayres words ) ,
or have a serious want for putting Liverpool back to where they belong,
or want to back the manager and known that there is a very injured / weak squad, we have would have signed at least 3 Key players ....
Yet we up to now have not signed one BUT HEY we have signed DUNKIN DONUTS and some Indonesian airline and vauxall .....
Clearly shows where their ( FSG , AYRE ) interest lies ....
.that is to milk this club for all its worth financially and sell if for a huge profit ....
If commercial revenue is far more important than competing for the League / Champs League position then im sorry they are not fit to run this club and are fleecing us ( the emperors new clothes come to mind ....)
They say all the right things but don't deliver at all and once they miss out on a target that someone else grabs then suddenly we are linked to another target ....
I have a feeling they are trying to milk Liverpool until this summer , make the clubs BOOKS look good ( i.e. signing commercial revenue ) , sell Saurez for a HUGH priofit and then sell the club to some one whos interested ...
2 points make me believe that
1) # commercial signings 3 vs 0 player signing despite our excellent position so far and injury crises
2 ) what is happening with the stadium ???
Does anyone else feel this way or am i alone here
Not sure why we feel we can dictate the price of other teams' players. If a club is asking for 'silly' money according to our standards, move on. Negotiating for months makes no sense whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteAllen was bought 4 windows ago, so I don't think he should be the standard by which we judge our transfers. However, Alberto cost £6.8M and Aspas £7.7M in the last window. Is the transfer committee saying that Salah falls in the same talent/quality bracket as these two?
If liverpool continues like this will surely they will be oblivion instead of attaining No.19. Only prepared to splash on spanish craps like No 9 permanently on the bench.
ReplyDeleteI agree that our priorities in the transfer market surely lie elsewhere. But if we can't conclude a deal for an £11 million player in over 2 months, it doesn't bode well for us concluding any deals in the remaining 4 days of the transfer window.
ReplyDeleteSo, we're to believe that 2.5 months of negotiating is not enough to seal a comparatively affordable transfer?! You're just making excuses. If LFC were not willing to pay the transfer fee, why spend 2.5 months negotiating? The fee wanted by Basel was probably on the table from day one, and if LFC didn't want to pay it, they would've pulled out instead of wasting all that time.
ReplyDeleteIf the two clubs couldn't come to a deal, then LFC's negotiating strategy/competence has to be one of the factors responsible. The deal failure doesn't just happen in a vacuum.
If this was a one-off then Ayre could be given the benefit of the doubt, but it's a regular issue, and it doesn't matter what excuse you come up with, the end result is the same: LFC failed once again to sign one of its main transfer targets. The club cannot just be absolved of responsibility for that; Ayre et al are culpable, perhaps not 100%, but they're culpable all the same.
Apparantly we're close to singing 20 year old Benfica midfielder Andre Gomes....
ReplyDeleteYes and for £12 million plus, is what I have heard.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you keep going on about Ben Smith? The BBC officially posted a story stating £11m is the transfer fee. If Smith's figure is correct, they would've posted an updated story with the updated fee. That hasn't happened. Why? Because it's not official, and it's speculation, posted by Smith in his personal capacity, based on rumours, not on actual knowledge.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, it's probably €15 - euros, not pounds, and Egyptian media states €15m, which is £13.5m, which - if true - is still affordable for LFC (who spent €19m on Sakho, and £20m in the last transfer window).
And with respect, please drop the flippant 'LFC know smarter than you' tone towards other posters. That's not the point. Fans are entitled to question the deal, and advance their theories, even if you don't like those theories.
Where do you get this 'LFC valued him at £8m' stuff from? That's just more unlikely speculation. If the club really valued Salah at 8m then it's yet another sign of abject incompetence. How can Christian Eriksen - who is the same age - cost £11m, but LFC value Salah, a similar player with similar potential, at £8m.
ReplyDeleteThat kind of valuation - if true - is one of the reasons LFC are such chumps in the transfer market.
'Single line quotes'? Yet another attempt at a groundless excuse. Instead of addressing the issue, you try to make out that the lack of a full quote is the problem.
ReplyDeleteThe full quote is not required. It does not change the meaning of the sentence 'the player didn't want to come to LFC', and it's disingenuous for you to suggest here - and elsewhere - that it does.
Your first 3 paragraphs are spot on. The only team in the top 4 that hasn't strengthened is Arsenal. But we know how Wenger is, Teams just below us, Spurs and Everton, look stronger and better balanced. It's hard to believe that several transfer windows after FSG came in and a few after Rodgers' arrival, such obvious deficiencies remain within the squad.
ReplyDeleteWith this being the best opportunity in years to make the top 4, you'd think FSG would be all in. Are we really to believe the market is as difficult as Rodger's is making out? It will be harder come summer without Suarez and Champions' League football.
Taken from the BBC site.
ReplyDeleteMore from Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers, on the subject on new additions in the transfer window: "We have to wait and see, there is certainly nothing imminent. I wouldn't bring in a player here in January unless he was a really outstanding player who we could get on a loan that is going to really help."
Really don't like that he adds 'Loan' on the end.
Wish I could be optimistic, We were close to signing Salah, Willian and Mkhitaryan, but look how they all turned out....
ReplyDeletethe old adage is , that you strengthen from a position of strength. we haven't so forget the champions lge. negative? no, realistic? yes.
ReplyDeletewe have loaned moses and cissoko. they have really helped haven't they!!!???
ReplyDeleteYou're right. Unless, of course, we pay over the odds. I'm still surprised FSG sanctioned the Sakho deal.
ReplyDeleteIan Ayre(head), good enough for Hicks and Gillett, and apparently good enough for FSG, WTF, it's some strong stuff being inaled, lol
ReplyDeleteIf they think Salah is in the same bracket as Alberto and Aspas then they are totally delusional. If they think he's going to have the same impact as the 2 mentioned then why were they even in negotiations?
ReplyDeleteLove to be a fly on the wall and see what Ayre does on a daily basis. A lot of paper shuffling and scratching of the head comes to mind, along with nice long client lunches. Someone mentioned 'he' secured sponsorship deals, think the Americans might just of had a little influence in that...
ReplyDeleteThat's just one issue however, am getting an increasing sense of frustration coming from Rodgers plus throwing in Luis's desire for champs lg football, then a bad end to the season could spell more turmoil. Lets just hope we're in top four come end of season, then big signings and no excuses.
I hate to say it, but my fear is that wasting most of dec and jan haggling over 2 million or so for salah will cost us a top four place.
ReplyDeleteSome of br's player choices have been poor, but this guy looked to be the real deal, and a definite upgrade on sterling, who is not yet a top-four quality, first choice starting winger. Salah offeirs a bigger threat and better quality attacking play on either flank.
Missing out on CL next season, when we now have the best chance for five years, shows a financial prudence and rigidity that will always stop us signing a player when another top six PL club are competing. No one wants to see a return to the days of overpaying, but there are a few key players who are sought after, and for whom you have to push that bit harder, and faster, in order to sign them.
It is that decisive action and selected risk taking that LFC cannot currently do, and thats why we will continue to be gazumped by any club with a setup that can act quickly and is prepared to commit just a few million more for those rare players who look like they are truly champions league standard.
I fear our long drawn out transfer processes and our prudence might this time have cost us a european place for the next three years. Well done Mr Ayre on sticking to your guns, making sure we didnt overpay, saving us a few million on your balance sheet, and of course keeping us out of europe for the foreseeable future.
If we keep going the way we're going we'll be not overpaying for players" our way into the championship. BR has had to say on so many occasions the size of the squad, it clearly needs addressing. Where is the financial sense in not paying 11M for a player that could probably play for us on arrival and then going and paying 8M on an 18 yr old that's never going to play?
ReplyDeletehe would probably end up in a 5 month negotiation for gloria gaynor......then she would sign for everton!
ReplyDeleteCould someone please explain what Ayre does? Was he a managing director prior to LFC? Because he seems to be really good and selling LFC to Business Corporations but basically terrible at dealing with Agents.
ReplyDeletewe have borrowed the 'biscuit tin' from celtic! ( one for older viewers there).
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree with the overall point in the article. We are beginning to become a joke. In my maiden language a quote says that if you make the same mistake twice, then that action does not indicate a witty person. How about if you make the same mistake four times? In the future we will indicate the players which are considered by our scouting team as talented and provide this info to other PL teams to conclude the deal on a fee making this habit professional (that would sound interesting to Mr Ayre). A simple answer to Mr Ayre's statement of "we will win on some and we will lose on other players" is when to his knowledge did any similar embarrassment took place amidst of any of the teams above ours negotiations with a player?
ReplyDeleteI agree, but do you really believe he is responsible for securing sponsor deals. A team of people heavily influenced by FSG would do all the hard work in my opinion, reckon he signs off on the deal and poses for pics, then comes out with these great worded interviews full of soundbites.
ReplyDeleteI think saying that have 'really' helped is a bit of a stretch. They have done a job, and have been ok.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see the value in a loan, especially for a top club. You loan players down to lower teams to give them experience. Why should we be developing other teams players?
Couple in the fact that these loans still end up costing a few million, you may as well stump up a bit of extra money and sign them properly.
i was being sarcastic.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to Ayre, which is difficult but I'll give it a go...back in November Salah clearly stated that he wanted to go to a "big club" and named Real, Man U or Chelsea, so there is something to his comment. You're right, seems we had a deal in mind and stuck quite rigidly to it. It also looked to be working, given all the Mido comments etc. and if it had everyone would be marvelling at a great piece of business as they did last January. Chelsea burnt it all by offloading Mata and then going for Salah and given Salah had already stated he wanted to go there...there was nothing to hold it up. FSG need to assess whether they are in danger of spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.
ReplyDeleteFSG need to prize Daniel Levy away from Spurs, there is no better dealer in the transfer market than him!! In all seriousness though, Rodgers is fuming, he was left red faced by the Salah saga, even in the last hours before he signed for Chelsea Rodgers was under the impression Ayre and his team would sign Salah. Rodgers will not put up with this much longer, he is getting punished for past mistakes (Carroll, Downing etc) which were through no fault of his own. That said, FSG must be a littl sceptical about giving Rodgers huge money after Alberto, Borini, Allen, Aspas, Assaidi signings which ultimately are considered as flops (squad players or not). Fingers crossed, we'll get Will Hughes and Yarmolenko as that will give us a boost!
ReplyDeletehello, is that david dein? are you up to much at the moment???
ReplyDeleteSpot On Banoog ,Think about this ... Its your job as a Scouting team to find top players in a difficult market ......if it was easy then whats the point anyone can do it ....
ReplyDeletethe top teams/ scouts find the players BEFORE THE WINDOW OPENS and signs them asap ....
This is the reason i do not 100 % support Rogers because between him , Ayre and FSG they keeping saying and changing WHAT they say every week to make fools of the supporters ... I meen if we had signed Salah , Chelsea may not have sold Mata to utd ....In 1 stroke BR , Ayre and FSG strengthened a drowning UTD and weaken us ....
Now what would be the reason EXCEPT for short terms gains i.e . make Liverpool look good on the books i.e. Get more precieve revenue in by sponsors , reducing the wage bill , selling on players for profit i.e. Saurez come this summer ...
Not investing in the staduim after 2 years of taking over ..
I really hope im wrong on all counts as it would be a real pity playing with the emotions of the loyal Liverpool supporters ....
aquilani has just jumped into my thoughts...can't think why???
ReplyDeletespot on ....but my question is are they Chumps or are they making us Chumps ....
ReplyDeleteI meen apprently Ayre is a master neg. and they brought in Dunkin Donuts , Vauxall and Some airline .... Is their interests elsewhere ....please read my earlier comments ...
Oh, well that didn't come across. Sorry :-P
ReplyDeletejust read that brendan is considering signing moses permanently. please let this be a rumour, if not, last one out switch the light off.
ReplyDeleteMy point is there is no way Rodgers and co calculated Allen to be worth 15M. They just paid over the top for a player Brendan really wanted. They even breached an agreed transfer embargo to get it done, Swansea knew he wasn't worth that much. So if that can happen, why suddenly does the club go skimpy and overly cautious during this particular window?
ReplyDeleteIf Rodgers wants a player and it is in this 10-15M or so price range, regardless of his history in the market which I think is poor, he should get that player. If we are playing hardball with other clubs over a few million quid even with a fantastic chance of making the CL, that suggests to me that Rodgers has lost power. Do you think that Rodgers said "Oh nah he's not worth a few extra million, now I don't want him" - I don't think so.
On the note of salah I'm actually glad. His actions for Basel have been embarrassing for them in some respects. He's been known to be anti-Semitic etc. saying things on twitter and doing things like refusing to shake the hands of the Tel Aviv players when they played in Europa qualifiers.
ReplyDeleteNot some one personally I'd like to see representing the club, as I believe we're a club with proper morals and a club that embraces all colours and creeds, as shown by our fan base around the world. To have a player that isn't for that goes against the club imo. I know there will always be players like that but imo best to avoid them if possible if it will lead to embarrassment to the club.
Nothing is bigger than the club.
This dithering is Exactly what I was referring to on my post on this site last week. With a two month head start it is inexcusable to not get the business done, PERIOD. We may need an experienced Professional soccer general manager. Sadly, this paints another data point indicating that IA may be out of his depth.......sadly
ReplyDeletewe could even possibly do with a general football manager!
ReplyDeleteHas anyone read Ian Ayre's updated Wikipedia page recently? Have a look - it may give you a laugh, if nothing else.
ReplyDeleteYep, not sure why so much scouting goes on during the window. They had 5 months to do what they get paid for.
ReplyDeleteI think Chelsea are being very clever. They don't need Salah. Buying him has kept him out of the clutches of Liverpool. Furthermore, selling Mata increases strengthens Man U. It all adds up to increasing the competition below them.
Here's the thing. IF we agree that salah is only worth £8-11m, and Basel hang out for 15m two months ago, given that the player WANTED to come to us, Ayre should have closed his briefcase, and said ok, were OUT.
ReplyDeleteThe player would then probably have been aggrieved that his club had denied him a chance to go to such a big, or at least storied, club like LFC and may well have put pressure on THEM to renegotiate and accept a slightly higher bid than the original £8m or so.
We may well then have got him BEFORE Chelsea got £337m for Mata .
Instead we leave ourselves 5 days to find someone else.
Not good.
Just read it. Haha! Sounds like Ian Ayre is a genius. Wonder if he only updated his own wiki page!
ReplyDeleteThat interview summed up what I already knew, Ian Ayre is our problem.
ReplyDeleteHere's the funny bit....
ReplyDelete'Most recently Ayre has overseen what is most likely the greatest 'bait and switch' maneuvering ever seen in world sport involving the transfer of players. Under Ayre, Liverpool have tracked a number of players in recent transfer windows and 'leaked' to the press the 'intentions' of securing their signatures, which then sparked a last minute bidding war among several clubs. Clubs like Chelsea, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham and Manchester City have 'pipped' Liverpool at the last minute to several players whom were thought to be close to signing for Liverpool, paying over the odds prices. Ian Ayre and Liverpool have received much criticism for failing to secure the signings in a timely manner. With the latest transfer 'debacle', it has come to light that what Ayre is actually doing is forcing clubs like Tottenham and Chelsea to purchase expensive players who end up making a very small impact at their new clubs. Stefan Jovetic, Eric Lamala, Gylfi Sigurdsson and Henrikh Mkhitaryan come to mind. Chelsea nipped in at the last minute and signed Mohammed Salah 'out from under' Liverpool, but what Chelsea have signed is a player with a built-in controversy, Salah is a well known anti-Semitic, having caused his club Basel embarrassment and criticism by refusing to shake the hands of players of the Israeli club Maccabi Tel Aviv before Champions League qualifiers. Ian Ayre has perfected this 'bait and switch tactic, while Liverpool's real targets such as the outstanding Luis Suarez, Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge are signed with no competition.[3] The club's owners, Fenway Sports Group, led by John W. Henry and the chairman Tom Werner, announced Ayre as the new Managing Director on 22 March 2011.'
I'll give you credit, you stick to this line of reasoning quite a bit. You honestly seem to think it's sensible to cherry pick quotes from an interview and make conclusions based on just one or two sentences, when in truth a person may have spoken for some minutes on an issue. I think that's absurd. Ayre said a bunch of stuff and for me it all adds quite a reasonable frame to the statement about the player. There is nothing disingenuous about that, it's very consistent with a lot of comments I've made here over the years.
ReplyDeletespot on
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time the BBC posted an update where they corrected a supposed transfer fee? Don't be daft, they are under no obligation to do that. Smith went with the figure he had at the time and then revised that later. To me it says quite a bit that he's prepared to do that on a personal twitter account, but of course you'll interpret it how you like. Haven't we already had this discussion? There are reliable papers that are reporting the fee as 15, 16 or 18 million pounds. The only source you quote is the BBC, which in turn you have just contradicted by saying the Egyptian press (suddenly a bastion of truth in your eyes?) have given a different figure. It's not different than before: you're sticking with 11 million because it suits your argument and yet every other source out there says the fee is more than that.
ReplyDeleteI see what you're saying, but nothing Ayre says in the rest of his quite changes the meaning of what I've posted. No one cares about the rest of it, which basically constitutes lame excuses, and there's a link to his whole statement if people want to read it.
ReplyDeleteAll people care about is the principal reason why LFC lost out on Salah, and according to Ayre, it's because 'he didn't want to come to LFC'. In my view, nothing else matters. That's the meat of the issue; the question then becomes, why? And the answer will not be found in Ayre's tiresome quasi-corporate rhetoric.
Of course it's speculation, this entire conversation is speculation. You can't even find two media sources that can independently verify the transfer fee. A number of news sources stated that Liverpool valued the player at 8 million.
ReplyDeleteBut of course all you can do is ask rhetorical questions and offer no answers. On what basis do you suggest Salah is worth more? Chelsea have a long long history of paying over the top for players, it's hilarious that people seem to have forgotten this. This is a club that has over half a billion pounds on transfers in the past years.
All I do is put forward what seems a logical scenario: Liverpool valued the player at one number and Basel another. That's the single and obvious reason why the deal didn't get done. Of course I have no solid sources, neither do you, so I'm reporting from the same articles that I'm sure you've read. If you have something else beyond this I'd be interested to know, but let's be honest JK, from the number of unanswered questions and assumptions in your article I think it's obvious enough you know as much as everyone else here.
Believe me FSG, n Ayre, hv no heart for the team, widows after window we cant lose our prime targets co cheeply , then buy Apas,Luis Alberto,coates,Illoris,for bargain price not even gud to warm the bench,its how they believe will go foward, its time for FSG N I AYRE to be sacked
ReplyDeletethe answer to that question is no one becuase they are under directive from FSG to Low Ball and get by some luck or not at all .... no big investment is comming ...
ReplyDeleteOf course the fee from Basel was on the table. So what? Why would they hide it? And why would Liverpool stop trying to get the player? Why can't they try? Because the fans would get wind of it and get disappointed? Who gives a toss what petulant fans think about it? The big difference between me and, it would seem most other fans on here, is that I don't see not getting Salah as some kind of failure. Business is full of scenarios where you try something and it doesn't come off. Liverpool have lots of failed transfer targets because they operate a difficult strategy: target good players but don't overpay. In a market where you compete with clubs like Chelsea, City and United who will happily drop stupid amounts of money for players then sure, we're going to lose. I just don't get worked up about and demand that people lose their jobs because of it. I admire the club for what they are trying to do, it's setting a strong precedent and establishing a pattern when selling clubs will soon come to realise that we don't move far from our initial offer. It's hard negotiating and I don't have a problem with that. We've lost most of our recent targets because we're gone after popular players and we've played hardball on the fee. Maybe the club will need to reconsider this method if it ends up getting them nowhere but it sure as hell isn't just about Ian Ayre's "negotiating skills". That's nothing more than a childish dig at a man that, let's face it, no one here has ever met, let alone actually worked with.
ReplyDeleteI've already explained the basis upon which I deem Salah to be worth more than £8m: historical transfer fees for players with similar potential.
ReplyDeleteChristian Eriksen (£11m) is the most obvious example. Then there's Daniel Sturridge (£12m); Gaston Ramirez (£12m); Then there's players like Wanyama (£12m), and more experienced players like Giroud and Podolski, who went for similar amounts.
Then you have other players like Oscar/Willian etc who come in for hugely inflated prices. If you look at all transfer fees worldwide over the last five years, there are countless players of a similar age/potential level that go for £10-£15m. Why should Salah be any different? Like Eriksen, he's an experienced international, and he's got CL experience.
I do have contact with people who could be considered to be 'in the know', but I don't put much stock in that kind of info. I prefer to read between the lines based on factual quotes etc.
Never, ever, believe a footballers agent about anything. Salah and Basle obviously publicised Liverpool's interest in order to draw out another club into making an offer in order to maximise his contract and the transfer offer. In other words they were the ones who prolonged the deal. They could have just accepted it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not fussed that he didn't come. There are plenty of players of his type around. It's just a matter of getting them young; and we have Ibe already, who may well become a player of Salah's class in due course. We just need to be patient. I'm glad we finally have some responsible management at the club.
And to me the answer is obvious: money. Maybe Ayre is being too cagey about it, because he dances around the issue in what he says. But how could it be anything else? Basel wanted more than we were willing to pay and Chelsea walked in on day X and simply paid the asking price. Sucks for us but I can't see anything in that process that is really worth worrying about. The club should stick to their evaluations shouldn't they? Maybe they were wrong on it, maybe they were naive, but when Chelsea is on the other end of the bargaining table I think all logic goes out the window. I don't think Basel were ever going to sell for a penny less than the final fee they got, and that was a fee we were not willing to make. 2.5 months down the drain, perhaps, but I really insist that no one did anything "wrong".
ReplyDeleteNo one here has worked with James Purnell, the BBC Technology guru who got sacked recently after the failure of a £100m IT project, but that doesn't mean we can't make valid inferences about his ability based on the available info.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that we can't criticise Ayer because we haven't met/worked with him is, with respect, utter nonsense, and one of the biggest red herrings out there.
Yeah because Spurs didn't make themselves look like gullible fools in last summer's transfer market, signing a pile of overrated and / or untested players for absurd amounts of money.
ReplyDeleteI 100% disagree with you. If you had someone you'd never met criticised your about your job performance based on information he'd gotten down the pub you'd laugh it off and call him an idiot. Calling for his head based on newspaper reports without even knowing the man ... come on dude, that's just stupid.
ReplyDeleteIt's easy, you believe your own people. It's called loyalty. I don't give a crap what some agent for some player from a nothing club has to say about LFC.
ReplyDeleteI would guess it's not just about money now, but money in the future; and not just money but other inducements too, of the kind Abramovich and his people have used throughout his career. He, like the City owners, has personal power which goes deeper than his pockets. Personally I think Salah was a nice signing for us while it was under the radar, but once his people got Chelsea interested it lost a lot of value.
ReplyDeleteStill optimistic that we will go for Shaqiri on loan. Would love to see him at Anfield.
....doesn't stop invalid references to him either it seems, it was John Linwood who was sacked.
ReplyDeleteOh hi Arsenal fan; did you read the "In all seriousness..." Bit!? Perhaps I should have been more clear and said "joking aside" or "do not take this too seriously". But thanks for your helpful and informative reply nonetheless!
ReplyDeleteAyre is not good, we shouldn't haggle over a few millions. But by the same token, we shouldn't waste time buying like for like players (Aspas vs. Borini). We could've saved the money from Llori, and picked up an attacker in the 15-20M range, and then kept Borini as cover.
ReplyDeleteInfo obtained 'down the pub' - you do like to trivialise things, don't you?
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't reflect this situation in any way, shape or form. There is copious factual evidence available from the last 4-5 years (quotes from Ayre himself; transfer business etc) to enable outside observers to make educated inferences about Ayre's performance in his current role. You just refuse to accept that, and seem to suggest that intelligent inference - one of the fundamental aspects of modern life - is somehow an invalid form of opinion-creation.
I personally find it difficult to believe people with a background of lies, contradiction and spin. Furthermore, it had been reported for weeks that Liverpool was chasing the player. A fact corroborated by Rodger's himself, whose disappointment at the failed transfer speaks volumes. Besides, Ayre is the only source for the idea that the player did not want to come to Anfield.
ReplyDeleteVery good post mate!
ReplyDeleteA question I would like answering is is it Ayre who is is doing these deals, or trying to/negotiating etc? If so who is it who is doing the deals for sponsors and such? If that is Ayre too then that is negligence from the top. Ayre seems to do well in getting other businessmen involved with Liverpool (if it is him) as that is a role he is more accustomed to and has done for a while. As for transfers (if it is him) it seems as if he is not the man for the job. I wouldn't say sack him just change his role and hire someone with much more experience in that area to be involved in getting transfers done.
ReplyDeleteAlso I would like to see some transparancy from the club as to the roles of the Committee and how they come to valuations (very unlikely I know). My point, I feel needs repeating. If a player is wanted for the first team then it stands to reason that such a player would at least be in the 10 plus million bracket to get in the team ahead of others. If that is the case then why try to low ball so much as to frustrate the selling club? I truly believe it is a good thing that the club don't want to over pay for players. After previous catastrophes I can fully understand that, but sometimes the figures seem arbitrary. Sometimes the negotiations from Liverpool seem to be trying to be too clever. Especially as we had reports over this window that we were happy to wait until the summer for Sallah.
I don't know eneough about the whole thing there is undoubetdly more to it than we can grasp from the papers (notoriously unreliable, see Sid Lowe article about Mata signing in the Guardian) but it really does look like ineptitude from the outside.
I also find it pitiful of Ayre to make comments that he made yesterday, saying Salah did not want to come to LFC. There is a reason for that, if they deal with people like you I don't doubt it left a bitter taste in their mouths. We can clearly see the pattern now, he is good at getting us sponsors but not players.
ReplyDeleteTouché! I forgot that I am American LFC zealot not as courser....after I typed it I thought that someone would do the "footy not soccer" thing..... The point is right isn't it?
ReplyDeletePatience yeeeees!!! How many years is it now?
ReplyDeleteI hate this we will not overpay nonsense. Fact, you always, ALWAYS, overpay for a football player. No one man is worth millions of pounds. We always overpay for our jerseys, to see matches, to travel to matches, our scarfs, our kids scarfs and so on. Because we love the club and we're not business men trying to make a quick buck. And anyway, I don't understand how a 22 year old second choice Belgian goalkeeper can be worth 9 million yet at the same time a 21 year old attacker with CL experience would not be worth 11. And I won't even start on reserve players who are apparently worth 7 million...
ReplyDeleteYeah we wouldn't want any race related or handshaking incidents would we?
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. I wonder who wrote this I'd love to think it was Ayre himself but some how I doubt it.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. He definitely wrote that himself. Bait and switch Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ReplyDeleteAll buys are a risk. The owners don't want to always take that risk.
ReplyDeleteI'm personally sick of everyone "oh we didn't buy anyone, we're going to get relegated, lose Suarez blah blah blah, Rodgers out, FSG out, viva la Chelsea-esque spending spree".
We don't have the financial offerings like City and Chelsea to have a bench of world class players. We don't have Europe to attract the elite superstars. We have a very thin squad and I believe we now need to look at adding defensive quality. I see this as a "Gylfi Sigurðsson" thing were we will see him on Chelsea's bench, and we'll get someone better.
As for Ayre, he kept Suarez, signed Sturridge, Countinho, Sahko. All good. He filled out the squad with fringe players.
He/FSG/Rodgers got us contending for top four with that £45mill set of players in the team. We can't just buy everyone who has a few good matches. Carroll had one good season with Newcastle. We spent £35 mill. He was poor. Cissohko was one of those promising names a season or two ago. Poor. Salah might be the same.
I'd long ago assumed that this is what the other clubs were doing to Liverpool!
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about "soccer", mate. Us older one ones still remember it as such. Just a shortened, Association Football.
ReplyDeleteCheers logan! Looking forward to tonight's game! I've a good feeling about it. Somebody's going to get a pasting off us soon; our form has been improving and there are some new tactical things the players are doing which they've been getting used to. Hope it clicks against the blues! 4-1! Yeah!
ReplyDeleteGod, sorry Urban, I literally read your opening sentence and flipped out :) Good post actually. Have a recommend.
ReplyDelete