It ended all square at Goodison Park earlier today as poor defending cost Liverpool the chance of regaining top spot the Premier League. Daniel Sturridge rescued the Reds with a superb header at the death, which capped an exciting end-to-end clash, and rescued a much-valued point for the club. Here is a selection of reaction from current and form LFC players.
Steve McManaman
"As a spectacle, it was fantastic. Some terrible goals given away though, but what a game. There was a lack of [good] defending on display".
John Aldridge
"Got out of jail there. Mignolet was excellent but I gave man of the match to Flanagan. He came of age today. Stick with him rather than Cissokho".
Simon Mignolet
"What a game! Thanks for the support"
Didi Hamann
"Fantastic derby. Breathtaking 2nd half. Fair result in the end even though Mirallas should have seen red. Flanagan and Barkley outstanding".
Michael Owen
"What a game at Goodison Park. Probably a fair result in the end".
Adam Morgan
"Nobody arguing good game all around! @jon_flan93 man of the match"
Iago Aspas
"One more point. A great match. Let's continue the fight!"
Brendan Rodgers
"I thought Mirallas should’ve went. It was a really poor challenge. He was nowhere near the ball and he’s gone for his knee. It was a career threatening challenge, which we’re trying to eradicate from the game, and it definitely should’ve been a red card".
Brad Jones
"Unbelievable game today! Both teams fought hard. Thought Jon Flanagan and Simon Mignolet were superb"
A few observations:
* Mirallas definitely should've seen red. Horror tackle on Suarez, and could've caused a serious injury.
* Flanagan had a decent game, but 'man of the match'? No chance. Aldo's pro-Scouse bias shining through there ;-) He got caught several times on the left, including one situation where Mirallas ghosted past him like he wasn't there, and almost scored.
* Apart from his set-pieces, Gerrard offered nothing today. The game passed him by for long periods, but his place in the team is arguably justified by his free kicks, corners and crosses alone right now, mainly because he continues to influence games.
* Joe Allen deserves criticism for his terrible miss (!) but that shouldn't define his performance. He didn't play badly overall, and the barracking he's receiving is (IMO) a little unfair. Unlike Gerrard, however, he doesn't really influence games when he plays.
* Another good performance from Martin Skrtel. Dealt with Lukaku effectively for the most part, and not really at fault for any of the goals. Having said that, he or Agger should've marked Lukaku for the third headed-goal; I can't see the logic in having Glen Johnson on him.
* Another creaky performance from Daniel Agger. He increasingly seems to lack the appetite for a physical challenge, and that may be because he (subconsciously) fears injury. That's understandable given his injury history, but it doesn't do the team any good.
* Pleasing to see positive, attacking substitutions from Rodgers. Allen off for Moses, and Sturridge on for Lucas. The manager really wanted to win the game, and that was great.
* Lucas had a better game this week, but he still continues to give away silly fouls! He is reckless at times, and one of his needless challenges today led directly to Everton second's goal.
* Several moments of sloppy play from Glen Johnson. His failure to mark Lukaku properly led to Everton's third goal, and he gave the ball away a few times, which almost led to yet another Everton goal (for Deulofou)
* Despite conceding three goals, Simon Mignolet put in a superb performance, and definitely kept Liverpool in the game. Once again, the Belgian stopper won the Reds a point. His distribution remains poor, however.
* Coutinho and Henderson were anonymous for periods of the game, but Hendo put in a good defensive shift, and Coutinho scored a brilliant, vital goal.
* It's slightly concerning that all three Liverpool goals came from set-pieces. On another day, the goalkeeper has a blinder and none of them go in. Would be good to see more goals from open play.
* Some fans will argue that Sakho should've started, but I don't believe he would've made much difference against Lukaku. Sakho has played against big/strong strikers already this season and couldn't prevent goals being scored. After Agger/Skrtel kept a clean sheet in the last game, you can't really blame Rodgers for sticking with that combination.
* Having said that, Toure should've started (IMO). In a frantic derby, defensive organisation and vocal leadership is required, and Toure would've provided that.
A win would've been nice but a draw is still a decent result, even though it's the third draw this season after an international break (!) Thankfully, Liverpool can now continue building momentum uninterrupted until March 2014, and with Hull, Norwich and West Ham to come, the Reds have a great chance of consolidating a top four position before the Christmas rush.
Author: Jaimie K
Steve McManaman
"As a spectacle, it was fantastic. Some terrible goals given away though, but what a game. There was a lack of [good] defending on display".
John Aldridge
"Got out of jail there. Mignolet was excellent but I gave man of the match to Flanagan. He came of age today. Stick with him rather than Cissokho".
Simon Mignolet
"What a game! Thanks for the support"
Didi Hamann
"Fantastic derby. Breathtaking 2nd half. Fair result in the end even though Mirallas should have seen red. Flanagan and Barkley outstanding".
Michael Owen
"What a game at Goodison Park. Probably a fair result in the end".
Adam Morgan
"Nobody arguing good game all around! @jon_flan93 man of the match"
Iago Aspas
"One more point. A great match. Let's continue the fight!"
Brendan Rodgers
"I thought Mirallas should’ve went. It was a really poor challenge. He was nowhere near the ball and he’s gone for his knee. It was a career threatening challenge, which we’re trying to eradicate from the game, and it definitely should’ve been a red card".
Brad Jones
"Unbelievable game today! Both teams fought hard. Thought Jon Flanagan and Simon Mignolet were superb"
A few observations:
* Mirallas definitely should've seen red. Horror tackle on Suarez, and could've caused a serious injury.
* Flanagan had a decent game, but 'man of the match'? No chance. Aldo's pro-Scouse bias shining through there ;-) He got caught several times on the left, including one situation where Mirallas ghosted past him like he wasn't there, and almost scored.
* Apart from his set-pieces, Gerrard offered nothing today. The game passed him by for long periods, but his place in the team is arguably justified by his free kicks, corners and crosses alone right now, mainly because he continues to influence games.
* Joe Allen deserves criticism for his terrible miss (!) but that shouldn't define his performance. He didn't play badly overall, and the barracking he's receiving is (IMO) a little unfair. Unlike Gerrard, however, he doesn't really influence games when he plays.
* Another good performance from Martin Skrtel. Dealt with Lukaku effectively for the most part, and not really at fault for any of the goals. Having said that, he or Agger should've marked Lukaku for the third headed-goal; I can't see the logic in having Glen Johnson on him.
* Another creaky performance from Daniel Agger. He increasingly seems to lack the appetite for a physical challenge, and that may be because he (subconsciously) fears injury. That's understandable given his injury history, but it doesn't do the team any good.
* Pleasing to see positive, attacking substitutions from Rodgers. Allen off for Moses, and Sturridge on for Lucas. The manager really wanted to win the game, and that was great.
* Lucas had a better game this week, but he still continues to give away silly fouls! He is reckless at times, and one of his needless challenges today led directly to Everton second's goal.
* Several moments of sloppy play from Glen Johnson. His failure to mark Lukaku properly led to Everton's third goal, and he gave the ball away a few times, which almost led to yet another Everton goal (for Deulofou)
* Despite conceding three goals, Simon Mignolet put in a superb performance, and definitely kept Liverpool in the game. Once again, the Belgian stopper won the Reds a point. His distribution remains poor, however.
* Coutinho and Henderson were anonymous for periods of the game, but Hendo put in a good defensive shift, and Coutinho scored a brilliant, vital goal.
* It's slightly concerning that all three Liverpool goals came from set-pieces. On another day, the goalkeeper has a blinder and none of them go in. Would be good to see more goals from open play.
* Some fans will argue that Sakho should've started, but I don't believe he would've made much difference against Lukaku. Sakho has played against big/strong strikers already this season and couldn't prevent goals being scored. After Agger/Skrtel kept a clean sheet in the last game, you can't really blame Rodgers for sticking with that combination.
* Having said that, Toure should've started (IMO). In a frantic derby, defensive organisation and vocal leadership is required, and Toure would've provided that.
A win would've been nice but a draw is still a decent result, even though it's the third draw this season after an international break (!) Thankfully, Liverpool can now continue building momentum uninterrupted until March 2014, and with Hull, Norwich and West Ham to come, the Reds have a great chance of consolidating a top four position before the Christmas rush.
Author: Jaimie K
Nice and balanced analysis. Regarding the Allen case, I remember Sterling missing a sitter in this same fixture last year and Henderson missing the target while there was noone in goal against Spurs and none of them got as much stick as Allen.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, decent result and 9 points should be the minimum target for the 3 next games!!!
Mig was excellent, but as you said poor distribution.
ReplyDeleteGJ, awful, 4/10, let Lukaku in for third goal, while our CB's were marking the Everton defenders.
Flanagan, was outclassed at times, never offered anything going forward, was average, dono where all the praise comes from.
Skrtel-Agger, Agger was awful overall, Skrtel had a decent game, considering how many times he had to rescue Agger.
Lucas did well, but still the same problems, needs competition/replacing
Hendo sacrificed to shadow Baines, but was happy with him today.
Gerrard, ok game, but hustle and bustle games dont suit him.
Suarez, outstanding, tied with Mig for MoM for me.
Coutinho, very good game.
Allen, what a miss, which probably cost us the game. and average otherwise, cant see him getting back into the starting 11 again, THIS SEASON, especially after January.
Yann M'Villa, thanks for mixing it up with the LFC fans mate, hope to see more of you in January, fingers crossed.
What is wrong with Agger?
ReplyDeletei still don't see a really creative and commanding midfield., we need midfielders who can actually unleash SAS, to many times our strikers had to work their way to goal.
ReplyDeletewe need a 10 to 12 goal a season midfielder in the team . 2 wouldnt be bad.ALEXIS SANCHEZ and any other will do.
Why have you got Andre Wisdom's quote? What has that got anything to with today's game? He is referring to Derby County's match.
ReplyDeleteAn fantastic game to watch. Very impressed with Liverpool coming back from 3-2 down a lot of teams would of lost that game from that position. Of course going 3-1 up would of been the killer blow to Everton's hopes of getting back into the game. But overall it's looking good for the reds, you sense a collective team spirit within the camp and games like this can only strengthen that bond compared to the performances under Hodgson a few years ago where there was a serious loss of an identity when we got battered 2-0 at Goodison park. Win lose or draw if Liverpool go into the upcoming games with the mindset like they had today then have got a chance of finishing in the top four. Got to also give praise for a coming of age performance from Flano and another very impressive display from Ross Barkley, he is going to be boss player if keeps it up.
ReplyDeleteI thought Flanagan had a great game. Never gave up and never shirked. That's all you can ask of a bloke.
ReplyDeleteShame on Sturridge. They had just agreed on the cover for the commemorative DVD when he goes and ruins it. BOOOOO........
to be honest the game was a blur because of that Miralles challenge, he should be banned for at least 10 games, he tried to do him, i may have only played amateur football but a split second in the moment is like a few minutes when your playing, for me Miralles new exactly what he was doing, disgusts me, just like Roy Keane on Haaland, who got 5 games but needed hernia surgery so didnt matter because he recuperated while his ban was ongoing, i'm disgusted really and to think all he got was a yellow card hopefully the FA will deal with this now the rule has changed.
ReplyDeleteAllen really should've taken it though. Can't help but feel that, knowing that he doesn't have much support from the fans and that he rarely starts, that miss may have been a defining moment in his LFC career. It was pretty much half an open goal (since Howard was committed) and to miss was just inexcusable. I'll admit, I'm not his greatest fan and that I'm yet to see this so called "dynamism" about him (Yaya Toure, Paulinho come to mind) that BR raves about, but I sincerely hope he proves his doubters wrong and that he does become the player that BR expects him to be! YNWA and Joe, you have my support (as did Aquilani mind you!)
ReplyDeleteI thought Flanagan was terrific today. Was not expecting that of him given his quiet performance against Arsenal. Found himself in good positions, strong in the tackle and very composed on the ball. His game has come on and long may it continue.
ReplyDeleteGood point in the end but it could & should have been 3. Mirallas should have gone, as everyone but Martinez agrees, & Allen should have scored (enough said about that one). At 3-1 up the Blues would have found it hard to climb back, especially with 10 men. Well done Sturridge for coming on not fully fit & scoring after drawing a blank for Engerland. And well done Flanagan for putting in a decent shift & looking better than Cissoko has. Hopefully he'll kick on & improve from this cos I don't relish us having to call on Mr Cissoko. Beauty of a goal from Couthino & great strike from Luis made for 3 great looking goals, but the defence has got to perform better if we're to stay on track for CL.
ReplyDeleteHaha. Good point.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteDespite what I read here continually, Sakho should have played to take care of Lukaku, coz Agger has failed to do it today, and every time he plays against him. Lukaku must be rubbing his hands when he see's Agger as his marker. BR must not have watched the games when Lukaku owned Agger, same again today.
ReplyDeleteThought Agger had a shocker today. Would have loved to have seen Sakho or Toure on instead of him, particularly, as you say, in view of his previous poor handling of Lukaku.
ReplyDeleteFlanagan has his deficiencies but considering his inexperience, I thought he did rather well. Whereas Johnson just got on my nerves today.
ReplyDeleteDisappointing really that we allowed Everton so much room to counter. The lack of control was concerning in that regard but I guess maybe bit of derby madness played into that.
I like Johnson (I may have told you.... ;)!!! ), but he was poor today. Too many times we didn't have the composure on the ball, and one such 'hot-potato' moment from GJ led directly to the free kick which made it 2-2. Having said that, we scored 3 from a handful of chances, and didn't give up when we went behind.
ReplyDeleteBefore the game I think we would have probably settled for a point, and that's how it turned out.
Sick of these sterile, passionless derby's to be honest.
Rodgers has a lot to learn after his 'naughty tackle' comment.Mourinho and Ferguson would have gone for the jugular knowing the season isn't even half-over,bullying for a future decision.At the very least they'd have called it 'outrageous' or 'career-ending.When Williams kicked a ball against Van Persie's head,Ferguson mentioned 'brain damage'.
ReplyDeleteYes, and Jamie I think called for him to be sold, sell Agger to Barca, if we have to sell, or sell no one.
ReplyDeleteYann M'Villa at the game, and in with the Red fans, hope it leads to something in January.
It seems our switching off and counter attacking policy after lead gives us more chance of a positive result in tougher games, that's what we were doing in the first half and they didn't have any look into our goal. But BR set out the team to press higher after the break, given the lack of our relative quality/legs in the midfield resulted in them getting all the openings and they could have well scored more if not for Mignolets brilliance
ReplyDeletefirst off i have been a liverpool supporter for 40 years and i was so impressed with the way liverpool played today and i also must give credit to everton for their part in the derby today but now i must also say to all everton supporters today that they should hang their head in shame at kevin miralles who deliberately tried to injure luis suarez that challenge was a straight red card and i truly hope the fa take action against miralles and also take action against phil dowd that ref should never ref another liverpool game in his life. If suarez had done a challenge like that all everton fans would have been screaming for blood and your manager roberto martinez who said the challenge was only worth a yellow card the guy ought to buy spec savers cause he clearly needs glasses
ReplyDeleteWe are not far off from being the complete team. Our one area of concern is midfield. Jk is correct in the assertion that Gerard cant boss the midfield like he could in the past- but retains his position because of his corners,free kicks etc January should be the month to bring in 1 top class midfielder - Pogba of Juve type and maybe Mata on loan or outright purchase.
ReplyDeleteThe mirallas foul was horrendous and then the stamp on suarez - what did he have to do save kill someone to get sent off? BR is right can you imagine if the barkley dive was suarez or the mirallas foul was suarez - the anti suarez brigade would have called in UK Border Agency!
Cissoko criticism is ott, I agree he's no Roberto Carlos but it's not like Flanno provided any attacking thrust. Tho is not a slight on Flanno who I thought played well. Perhaps Cissoko's physical presence & defensive instincts may have helped?
ReplyDeleteJoe Allen remains BR's second biggest mistake, behind Borini. The concept Welsh Xavi was one of the bigmarketing scam & we seem to get mugged in the market. The backdrop to all the criticism about his abysmal miss is that 1) He was never needed in the first place. To think we let Shelvey go for Allen?!!?
2) He offers NOTHING to a team with champions league/title aspirations. No physical presence, No pace, No dribbling ability, poor tackler, sideways passing (no cutting edge). Will this change? No
BR brought this shrimp when we really needed a skillful bruiser. Any coincidence why Saints are keeping clean sheets? We foolishly overlooked the likes of Wanyama, Diame, Yusuf Mulumbu (wanted to move before signing a new contract).
I sincerely hope there's mileage in the M'Villa rumours because our immobility, feable midfield is too obvious!
Can anyone imagine a top team asking their RB to mark the main CF??? Was that BR's tactics or did Agger bottle it? I think both!
If we had played Sakho and Toure yesterday then Lukaku would have been taken care of.
ReplyDeletePity Sturridge couldn't take part from the start. One point away from home is better than nothing.
Is Allen the only player to ever miss a sitter like yesterday?
ReplyDeleteThis was Allen's first full competitive match in a very long time and it was EVERTON. By the way, Allen had a 100% tackle success rate yesterday.
What about the performances of Johnson and Agger who were the worst on the pitch yesterday? With performances like that they should not be seen anywhere near the Champions league. At least Allen made an effort and that is without being fully match fit yet.
I bet you were one of those ranting about Henderson the same way you are ranting now about Allen and look at Henderson now.
Would have been good to have Kolo in for Agger today. Sakho maybe could have been on a high too, given his midweek heroics. Understand why he stuck with Skrtel/Agger though. Played well last time out and used to the derby atmosphere.
ReplyDeleteAllen. Worst of both worlds for the 'incident'- shit and greedy. Will inevitably get more stick than he deserves from people who can't see for shit. Good lad. Give him a chance. Didn't fuck things up single-handedly. Also played some dodgy balls in our half too, it must be said. I hope people don't discard Allen now. We need to get behind him if we want to get anything like £15mil worth out of him. I still think he could grow into a good rounded player (especially in a 5-man midfield).
Johnson was our worst fella today. Seems to switch off against wingers who don't come right at him. Slow fellas seem to puzzle him. Does better when constantly challenged (against a Bale type). 3rd goal was his fault.
Thought Rodgers made the right call with Flanno. I wouldn't have made it myself mind, so all the more credit to the boss. Had shaky moments, but was fearless and proactive. Good aggressive tackling and some very impressive reading of the game.
Lucas was the pick of our midfielders. Very good. Shame his foul brought about a goal. A bit overzealous.
Coutinho still hasn't gotten back in the swing of things. Worrying. Time to give him a bit of a rest and maybe give Allen (he's not the shittest player of all-time, don't start) or preferably Alberto a game against Hull.
Mignolet and Barkley were Men-of-the-Metch.
Moses does very little. I know he isn't being given the best opportunities, but I think he looks less proactive (and ultimately influential) than the more maligned duo of Aspas and Borini. Less classy than Sahin too.
Gerrard lacks mobility, but had Suarez scored when he should have (the header, late on) then Gerrard will have had 2 assists and taken the corner that led to Coutinho's goal. Right now, I think he deserves to be accommodated. Needs a more dynamic partner. Him or Lucas have to give way. Love them both. Captain has more influence though, I think. Harder to replace.
Football's good though, isn't it?
Considering Everton's impregnability at Goodison and the curse that is the international break, a point is a good result.
Liverpool has been conceding too many goals over many seasons thru set pieces and corner kicks whenever Agger and Skrtel plays together.. BR please look at the stats.
ReplyDeleteYou've not mentioned what Allen contributes! When Hendo first came he was a headless chicken who was rightly criticised, yes by me & many others. He improved, now he deserves credit for that, I'm not arguing with that!
ReplyDeleteSo please tell me what does Allen do? Do you think he can take us up a level?
Johnson offers much more to LFC than Allen will ever do!
ReplyDeleteAllen started his career off very well at LFC and i do not have to prove it. Go search the net and you will find all the proof you need.
ReplyDeleteDid Henderson have any major injury setbacks while he was improving?
I will answer that one for you. NO.
Has Allen had injury setbacks? YES.
Spot the difference?
Allen had a few good games in a very poor Liverpool side at the time, Rodgers Reds were struggling and we didn't win our first match until September. Henderson then rightfully put Joe Allen on the bench and then unfortunately Joe got injured.
ReplyDeleteAllen must now have no confidence, he lost us 2 points. Do you really think he can come back bigger and better? I don't think so. I don't believe he can do what Henderson did.
The nature of the miss, the timing in the game and what it would of done for the team and for himself, he missed a massive opportunity which was presented to him, right place, right time, how can you miss? The keeper even went the wrong way. Now, he may not start the next match if Sturridge starts and it will be very difficult for him to find any confidence. I backed Henderson since day 1, I knew he had quality, Allen is a good player but I'm not as optimistic as you. Someone took their chance in the game and that was Flanagan, unfortunately it wasn't Allen.
Allen was playing with a buggered shoulder the whole season until he went for an surgery.
ReplyDeleteStuff it, Allen will make his naysayers eat humble pie.
When? Can't wait on Joe forever. As I mentioned, there probably won't be space for him in the starting 11 next game and that will strip him of even more confidence.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if you have an affinity towards Allen or something, why will he make his naysayers eat humble pie? He had his chance gifted to him and he missed it. Provide evidence or something justifiable, don't just list his ball retention qualities because he hasn't displayed those at all. I may eat humble pie but Allen may be wearing a different shirt.
This is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard. Jon flannagan MOTM. haha. What a load of nonsense. If it was not for our superb goalkeeper Mignolet, we would have been humiliated. Thats the problem with the english press. They blow things out of proprotion everytime a british player has a half decent performance and make him look like some kinda supertar when in fact they are far far far from it. Million years to early.
ReplyDeleteWhy is that? only god knows... but it probably has to do with english in general having an inferiority complex since most of their players are quite frankly not good enough compared to other players from other countries. So whenever somebody shows some good perfromance, they desperately want to believe that they found their own football stars like ohter countries do. unfortunately it is time for them to realise that there are no star players in england. There will never be. england will always be behind other nations in terms of football. They should stop deluding themselves.
Also our academy is not good enough. It annoys me everytime someone calls for academy players to get a go in the first team. Wtf? are you guys for real. Jack robinson? jon flannagan? raheem sterling? are you kidding me? Are they the kind of players you would bet your house would propel our club to the next level? I seriously doubt so.
lets stick to ally cissokho next time. give the guy time. he just came into a new league and barely had time to adapt but he is already being crucified. at least he is more experienced than flannagan. Did you not watch the match yesterday? he got dribbled past many time. he cant be any better than cissoko now, can he? But wait a min, he is british right? And he is young also. And from our awesome academy which produces superstars every season, right? Must be an freaking awesome player then. Lets play him and bench enrique also...
Can't you see it - hendo is worth nothing!
ReplyDeleteOffensive midfielder?
no pace, no technique, no creativity, no shoots, no smart passes, no
goals or creating something out of ordinary!
Excuse me but running and athlete skills are not for football, and
especially not for the top teams. Can you see hendo given any chance of playing in the top
6 in the starting 11? When the ball
comes to him you know its lost or nothing will happen with it.it's not only
yesterday - hendo have nothing to offer to top teams other than running and defending
that's not good enough!
Look at all his games - moves, shoots etc and you see nothing! Losing
balls, everything is so clumsy and slow, so predictable.
He is even below average and having Allen, Lucas and playing Gerrard so
deep - who will score ? Who Will create something?
Second blame for yesterday (and for arsenal lost) is BR! And that's for
2 reasons:
1.mindset :
It looks like he is frightening for every "difficult" game. What
a defensive mindset!
instead of attacking and create a fear factor that will take to
opposition backwards , Liverpool in those games are sitting back and waiting
for miracles from Suarez or somebody else, how obvious is that best defensive
is attacking, let them fear from you and attack Will all your skills.
every time that he does it ( and not for the last 10 minutes when run
after the game) he is losing the battle.
How can something happen when you have Allen, Lucas and hendo on the
field ? Where is Moses if Sturridge don't play? Who will be creative upfront
except Suarez and Coutinho?
SAS create a fear factor so why don't play with them?
if one of them is out why not play with Moses instead (that why you
brought him for the first place isn't it ?)
2. Gerrard:
Why playing Gerrard so deep ? From the one hand offensive qualities are
rare and once you have unique skills from somebody like Gerrard in creating and
scoring goals and midfield cover on the other hand (Allen) why not switch him
up with Coutinho and SAS? They will score and create lots of problems and goals
while the midfield will be more dynamic!
Drooping Gerrard so deep we are losing twice - not using his skills
while having a weak midfield.
These Allen arguments are like a merrygoround.
ReplyDeleteYou will eat humble pie.
Jon Flanagan should grow a massive beard as soon as possible. So should Gerrard.
ReplyDeleteThat's my main criticism. Terrific game.
Mr Hansen hardly mentioned the tackle on MOTD and treated as a scrape on Sky Sports.Some things never change.
ReplyDeleteYou keep saying that but you have zero evidence to back up that view. Just repeating it blindly doesn't make it more likely to happen. Allen didn't have a bad game yesterday, but he had zero positive impact on the outcome. Any average midfielder could've done the same job. Take Allen out of the team yesterday and what changes? Nothing. Actually, LFC may have won the game as someone else would've had that great chance, and probably would've scored.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the empirical evidence from Allen's LFC career to suggest that he is going to be some kind of superstar for the Reds?
It's ridiculous and actually a little disgusting to me to say that Allen cost us 2 points. You might say the same of Johnson whose poor marking cost us their second goal, Agger who should have gone to Lukaku for their third, Moses for mistiming his run for his late header and so on.
ReplyDeleteAllen was one of our better players: many key tackles and interceptions, solid if not excellent covering and anticipation, good passing and support play He brings a lot to the team. Gerrard's form and Lucas's brain, however, are real causes for concern.
The kind of scapegoating you indulge in here just lets the real problems go by unrecognised. We didn't fail to close the game out because of Joe Allen, who was instrumental in getting us into that position; it wasn't even individual errors; it was the failure to match Everton's movement and effort in the deep midfield positions throughout, which is an issue, ironically enough, that Joe Allen can help us to resolve.
So you don't like the English. Slow. Hand. Clap. Cissokho won't get anywhere near the first team for a while after that performance by Flanagan. If you can't see that it was a high quality performance by a very promising young player, I think it's more likely you whose vision is blinded by your unjustifiable contempt for English footballers.
ReplyDeleteHave another look at Flanagan's performance. Watch the game again this morning, paying extra attention to him, he was excellent.
ReplyDeleteHenderson has been one of our best players this season.
ReplyDeleteAthleticism is more important in football than you think.
Like I said, the Allen argument is that of sitting on a merry go round at a playpark. It goes round and round and round and the only person who will put an end to it is Allen himself.
ReplyDeleteAgree 100%. No one player turned the match with the possible exception of Mignolet. I don't think we get even 1 point with Reina in the net...MOTM for me.
ReplyDeletePassionless? Were we watching the same game?
ReplyDeleteCome on Jaimie a bit of consistency please mate. Agger didn't relish the battle with the big fella but Sakho shouldn't have played as Goals have been scored when he has played (what????). You can't argue with Rodgers keeping those two in but you would have played Toure. I agree with you that Toure's organisation would have helped but I also think that Sakho's physical presecnce would have taken some of the confidence away from Lukaku as his role against Agger helped him grow in confidence. What big strong strikers has Sakho directly went up against this season? Lukaku tends to go on to his right foot and so to that left hand side. A ohysical presence there would have made him think twice, that can e enough sometimes. Personally and although I never thought it would happen and it has it' own pitfalls in that it is as yet an untested team but I feel that Toure and Sakho would have been better for that particular challenge, Lukaku isn't just a strong player he is a very good player, we needed someone to take away or at least counteract one of those qualities. For all the talk of Agger's prowess on the ball he didn't do anything that Sakho couldn't have donem but I bet Sakho could have done more on the physical side than Agger did. Perhaps Toure on the left might have been the happy medium though and despite Rodgers talk of rotation I thought he missed the ideal time to do it.
ReplyDeleteAs for Allen I though he did a really good job of harassing the man on the ball, he and Henderson are the ones who do it the most and this was necessary so ewe don't have a game like the Arsenal one where Arteta could knock it about at will.
Who?Who plays instead of Allen and presses the man on the ball like he did? Henderson could have played in that position but then we would have lost that other man pressing.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that hasn't been discussed as far as I can see is how dangerous to us our own corners and set peices seem to be. If we don't get a head on it then they do and are dead quick in transition and are running at us in numbers and our own team seems to take an age to get on to it. We were lucky that Everton didn't turn more of our own set pieces in to goals for them. How many men are we leaving behind? Why are we not controlling central areas better so that these runs can't just roll through us? I know the legs in midfield has been mentioned many times but surely this can be dealt with through tactics? Surely!
ReplyDeleteI think you are over stating it but I have been thinking something similar but less definite. I honestly lump Allen and Henderson together, I see what Henderson has done and how much he has improved and see what he gives us, but I don't think he gives us much more than athleticism and a great work rate. I just feel that there are surely players out there that give us that and more. He is reluctant to try and beat a player preferring to pass backwards, his passing isn't brilliant. Like Allen I think he slows down play. I think both these players can do jobs for us and in a five man midfield both could help the thing function quite well but neither are very good for what we seem to want to be at the moment. A team that is incisive and breaks the opposition down quickly. There is unfortunatley a lack of flair and imagination on the whole. We get one through ball now and again but that's not enough for me. I think Henderson may well do better form the middle but I am not sure he will ever be the standard that we need to get to win the league. For now though his work is very much appreciated and I hope that he proves me wrong.
ReplyDeleteSturridge starts, Hendo is in the middle, unchanged team from the previous game.
ReplyDeleteI understand your point. However, to say Allen was instrumental is over the top, surely? He cost us points because of the nature of the opportunity to score and the events that occurred after. Players miss chances and if we had a bigger lead and he missed the shot or the chance was more difficult than this one then that's okay, but in this instance his miss critically cost us and himself. Unfortunately, he got subbed as a result and he may not start in the next match, his confidence must be low.
ReplyDeleteJohnson and Agger weren't good but Allen cost us most. Also, Johnson marking Lukaku is tactical and down to Rodgers, recently Hendo has marked Benteke in the box.
You also cannot compare a mistimed run from Moses against missing a sitter.
Like I said we lose a man pressing, which I think earlier in the game (before Baines went off and they changed it a bit) was helping us. The strikers can do a bit of that but Sturridge was injured and can sometimes not work as hard as he could. Carrying a knock and being expected to get involved as much as Allen was might be a bit much. So assuming that your the manager and think that Sturridge shouldn't start this famously gritty game, who plays instead of Allen?
ReplyDeleteI am also not scapegoating anyone. The discussion was purely about Allen and what he did or didn't do on the pitch and it didn't involve anyone else.
ReplyDeleteI doubt you found it disgusting when everyone was hating on Skrtel. It depends on what side of the fence you are on. I recognise Joe's talents but he was average overall and he missed his golden opportunity. It would of been 3-1 and he would of stayed on the pitch to combat those midfield issues you mentioned. In this instance, he did cost us points.
Excellent game - however was disappointed that Sturridge and the rest of the Liverpool players ran off celebrating after the equalizer. You have to ask would Man Utd have celebrated like that - or would their players have grabbed the ball from the net and placed it back in the centre prompting a quick start of the game so they could go for the win. Saying that we are definitely making progress under Rogers. Long may it continue. YNWA
ReplyDeleteApart from making excuses abt injuries you've really not explained what Allen contributes! This research the net to for evidence of impact is just a smoke screen argument! I'm not asking for amazing stats, just your opinion on what he does! You seem reluctant to outline anything, which is not surprising because there's nothing to say apart from crab-like movement!
ReplyDeleteStats like 100% pass completion-misleading. A player could pass the ball back to the keeper everytime & have those stats! 100 % tackles-misleading- it doesn't indicate how many tackles. 2 out of 2 is 100% success but grossly inadequate for a midfielder!
Again, how does he help the team?
The main question is what Liverpool goals are and where Liverpool wants
ReplyDeleteto be in the end of the season.
Depending on initial goals should Liverpool should be followed and
measured versus benchmark representative of those teams with which you faced competition.
In general, there is a common denominator in all the league's elite teams:
-
Quality players, especially
on offense worth more points.
-
Quality is not running fast
or being athletic
-
Quality is measured by goals
, creating goals , techniques , etc. (sometimes these players alone change the
game and bring their own points)
-
Finding a quality attacking
players is rare and therefore expensive
-
There is no Elite group
without offensive quality
-
Team balance is needed so defensive
quality is also required.
About Henderson, Gerrard and Liverpool:
-
If Liverpool's target is top
four then offensive quality required such as Suarez , Sturridge, Gerard Coutinho
(need more quality players and Moses is definitely showing great signs(
-
Henderson is approaching no
one mentioned , certainly when placed as an offensive player
-
Beyond my personal opinion that
Henderson does not bring added value as a offensive player, his data are proving
it which are very poor (goals or creating).
-
Lucas , Allen and Henderson
are basically similar defensive players and a combination of three of them is at
the expense of the offensive ( Allen's missed opportunity yesterday illustrates
an extreme but clearly the lack of quality on the offensive (
-
A real benchmark should be
facing the best players in each position, or alternatively, checking whether
our players can play in various elite teams. At this point, does anyone think hendo
have a place in Chelsea, City, United and Arsenal? If not, why should he have
one in Liverpool?
-
Gerard qualities affect
more offensively than a defensive midfielder. Placing him in DM instead of
creating or putting goals is a double failure. He Is less dynamic and fast as he
used to be (which exposes us to the holes in midfield) but we miss him
offensively cause he is a real threat and has a great added value .
The main question is what Liverpool goals are and where Liverpool wants
ReplyDeleteto be in the end of the season.
Depending on initial goals ,Liverpool should be followed and
measured versus benchmark representative of those teams with which you faced competition.
In general, there is a common denominator in all the league's elite teams:
-
Quality players, especially
on offense worth more points.
-
Quality is not running fast
or being athletic
-
Quality is measured by goals
, creating goals , techniques , etc. (sometimes these players alone change the
game and bring their own points)
-
Finding a quality attacking
players is rare and therefore expensive
-
There is no Elite group
without offensive quality
-
Team balance is needed so defensive
quality is also required.
About Henderson, Gerrard and Liverpool:
-
If Liverpool's target is top
four then offensive quality required such as Suarez , Sturridge, Gerard Coutinho
(need more quality players and Moses is definitely showing great signs(
-
Henderson is approaching no
one mentioned , certainly when placed as an offensive player
-
Beyond my personal opinion that
Henderson does not bring added value as a offensive player, his data are proving
it which are very poor (goals or creating).
-
Lucas , Allen and Henderson
are basically similar defensive players and a combination of three of them is at
the expense of the offensive ( Allen's missed opportunity yesterday illustrates
an extreme but clearly the lack of quality on the offensive (
-
A real benchmark should be
facing the best players in each position, or alternatively, checking whether
our players can play in various elite teams. At this point, does anyone think hendo
have a place in Chelsea, City, United and Arsenal? If not, why should he have
one in Liverpool?
-
Gerard qualities affect
more offensively than a defensive midfielder. Placing him in DM instead of
creating or putting goals is a double failure. He Is less dynamic and fast as he
used to be (which exposes us to the holes in midfield) but we miss him
offensively cause he is a real threat and has a great added value .
Average Joe Allen, deserves scapegoating because that's what fans do when they see a player who clearly should be no where near Melwood play incompetently! This pressing argument makes me chuckle, if that's all he offers why not promote U18 to run around & press!
ReplyDeleteWhat did you expect Sturridge to do? Slap or bite himself?????!!!!!!! Remember this is our derby game.
ReplyDeleteFirst we didn't play well enough and confident enough. Second BR knew for a long time about our set-pieces and didn't solve it. For me right now he is not good enough and should raise a higher standard. City won 6-0 on Spurs. BM crashed City. Southampton played better than us against Arsenal. Food for thought. Were lacking independent thinking in our managerial part of the club.
ReplyDeleteBest game i've seen in a long time. wow.
Oh, and ya: What coward referees does this PL has! Disgrace.
ReplyDeleteWe should be 3 points ahead of Chelsea and 9 above Tottenham.
You start off by working in to my point a bit.I think this season and even next seasons goals are not what they are long term and long term unless Henderson gets much better offensively I can't see him playing a part. But for now he definitely has a role.
ReplyDeleteBeing athletic is not in itself not going to do anything but working hard and covering others defensively is a massive job. How many teams have got those players who are not great but do a good job. How many have United had in recent past. Fletchers, O'shea and now Jones, there are plenty more. They may not be the best players or do that much for you in ways of goals and such but they help the team tick. That cannot be overlooked. Yes my point is you want both in a player but sometimes you have to make due. Also if you look at Hendersons goals last season from open play they are better than others in the team.
As for the Gerard thing I think it depends. The thing is though we lack Gerards creativity from a forward position we have it from a deep position. He has the ability to change phases quickly which is useful. His lack of legs and tackling are also a problem as e would like to win the ball higher up the pitch which makes it easier to score goals. So although you have a point I think you are missing these points. The manager obviously opts for the latter which is neither is not quite a fail as we scored quite a few goals last season and can do so again. And despite not looking al that good defensively we had comparable stats to those that did. Plenty of clean sheets and only conceding a couple more than the likes of the top five.