12 Oct 2013

'It's hard': He's 'part-Messi', but is €10m LFC star destined to fail under BR...?

In September, Liverpool attacker Iago Aspas revealed his frustration with being played out of position at Anfield, and since then, he's dropped out of the first time to become a perennial bench-warmer. With fewer games available this season due to lack of European football, and an early exit from the Capital One Cup, first-team chances are few and far between for the Spaniard right now, and he's now admitted that he's unhappy with the situation.

In an interview yesterday, Aspas bemoaned his lack of recent first-team action. He told reporters:

"I'm finding it hard to be a sub at Liverpool having started games in the past few years.

"When I left Celta Vigo I was aware that to start for Liverpool wasn't going to be easy, and now the team is winning and we are among the leaders in the Premier League, it's much harder to get a game".


In an interview with the official Liverpool FC website last month, Aspas made similar comments:

"It's been hard. I'm playing a bit further back than I did at Celta, but over here you need to run a bit more because it's a bit more physically. That's the biggest difference from the Spanish league, which is more based on technique"

Paco Herrera, Aspas's former manager at Celta Vigo, recently described the Spaniard as 'part-Mess, part-monster'. He told Spanish newspaper MARCA:

“Iago is our benchmark. He is our star player in his own right, but there are sometimes small things that can affect Iago as a person and a player. But for us, he is like Messi for Barcelona.”

Clearly, the Spaniard has talent, but I've said it once, and I'll say it again: this Fabio Borini all over again.

* Like Borini, Aspas is ostensibly a striker, who is most effective playing high up the field in a more central role.

* Prior to joining Liverpool, Borini proved that if you play him as a striker, he will score goals (6 goals in 9 games for Swansea during his loan spell)

* At LFC, Rodgers constantly played Borini out of position, which predictably led to ineffective performances.

* Borini is now on loan at bottom club Sunderland.

The same thing is happening with Aspas, and I can't see how he is going to get the requisite game time to make an impact, or justify his €10m transfer fee.

To be honest, I really don't understand Rodgers' thinking. Why does he insist on buying strikers to play on either side of the main striker, or in deeper roles? Why not just buy dedicated wide players?! Yes, the likes of Aspas and Borini can 'do a job', but the club should be buying specialists for these roles, not shoehorning square pegs into round holes in the hope that it might work out.

With Suarez, Sturridge and Coutinho certain starters, and Moses ahead in the pecking order, where exactly does Aspas fit in? Rodgers basically admitted during the summer that the likes of Aspas and Alberto are squad players, which is fair enough, but ultimately, it looks to me like another €10m down the pan.

Rodgers is racking up expensive transfer mishaps. The £11m spent on Borini is a total waste; the £15m on Allen looks like a woefully excessive fee, and what benefit is LFC receiving from the £16m outlay on Aspas/Alberto? That's £42m on players who either don't fit into the team, or are played out of position. In my view, Rodgers should've spent that money on the following:

- 1x dedicated defensive midfielder (i.e. a Diame-type) to challenge Lucas.
- 1 x dedicated left-winger/left-sided attacker.
- 2 x dedicated right winger/right-sided attacker.

These are positions that actually need to be strengthened. With Coutinho playing centrally, who do Liverpool have to play out wide? Raheem Sterling and Victor Moses are the only dedicated first-team wide-players (i.e. players who predominantly play out wide), and that is not enough. What then happens is we have the ridiculous situation whereby Jordan Henderson plays out of position on the right (or as a right wing-back) precisely because there's no one else to play there.

It really is maddening. The departure of Stewart Downing left a big, gaping hole out wide, and Rodgers could see this, yet he decided to spend £16m on two players the club doesn't really need. How does that make any sense? It makes even less sense to buy Aspas and Alberto if Rodgers has planned all along to move to a 3412 formation.

I don't see how the likes of Alberto and Aspas can prosper under Rodgers. They won't get adequate game-time, and they won't be played in their natural positions, which means - like Borini - they're basically being set-up to fail.



NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)


102 comments:

  1. Rodgers has spoken over and over again about one thing: competition. Competition for places in the squad. In any competition there are winners and losers. That's how it's got to be. If you don't shape up, you ship out, and more, hopefully better, competitors are brought in to replace you. I don't have a problem with Borini leaving on loan, he'll get another chance if he's good enough. It doesn't say anything about Brendan Rodgers. It just says something about Fabio Borini. If he's not good enough, he's not, and he'll be moved on. Someone else can try and force his way in. Bad luck, Fabio.

    And part of being good enough means, for Rodgers, for LFC today, being able to play in more than one position, being effective in a number of roles. Tactical flexibility during a game is becoming more and more important. We need options to change things on the pitch. So it's not enough to say that this is Aspas's position, we can't judge him until he's been given a run there. He needs to adapt, work hard, compete for a role in the team. And if he can't do that, then he's not going to succeed: he's not what we need. Someone else can try and force his way in. Bad luck, Iago.

    As it is, the players you mention -- Allen, Alberto and Aspas in particular, and hopefully Borini in the future -- are adding quality competition to the squad. That means the players are working harder. They are playing against better opposition in training, which counts for lot. One of the things that having a strong squad means is that some good players are going to get left out. They can't all play. You have to live with it, actually, you have to embrace it.

    Who could argue that the players aren't responding?

    One last thing, is that I think you might readjust your estimation of what counts as "expensive". Aspas and Alberto, even Borini, were not expensive players by any means. Their prices are the going rate for a quality squad player. For a first team player, it's more like £20-£30m for clubs at the top of the Premier League. That's the price for proven, mature quality: and it's not even the price for a top, top player: it wouldn't buy you Ozil, or Kompany, or Van Persie, or whoever. If a player like that fails: well, that's an expensive mistake. I'm looking at you, Gareth Bale.

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  2. You Got a point, but every top Club has at least 3 strikers. Plus we all know how injury prone sturridge is

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  3. To play for Liverpool, you need to be versatile enough and dependable in multiple positions. This aint no BR's fault. In this current form, you would want Aspas to lead the frontline instead of Suarez and Sturridge who are so versatile, together with Moses. They can switch left, right and middle easily while the Spanish Mr. Bean lookalike, Aspas, is never comfortable doing that. He'll have to adjust and adapt to our game, instead of Liverpool adjusting to his play. That's how it is.

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  4. It is B R fault because he has signed 2 duds - he chose them - it is not the lads fault - all down to us for getting our homework wrong. We cant be geniuses re Coutinho and then not our fault on these two - lfc at fault. I championed the appointment of B R and think he is class but the best make mistakes. One wonder idea - why not play them in their proper positions plus remember Aspas has not played with Suarez yet

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  5. DM - Lars Bender or Jorginho
    LW - Andriy Yarmolenko or Muniain
    AM - Javier Pastore or Keisuke Honda
    RW - Xerdan Shaqiri or Di Maria

    Those are the players that we can get in the Jan window which would be much easier for us to sign provided we're in the top 4 by then. I am sure majority of the LFC fans would love to have the players that I have mentioned and will make us title contenders quite easily if I am to be honest. The players mentioned can improve the first team significantly and so our chances of winning the league as well.

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  6. Mr. Point Of View3:51 pm, October 12, 2013

    Aspas is a good or bad is still in doubt for me. But 1 thing certain is i really dunno why loan out SUSO and which he is far more effective that Aspas or Moses at that role.......

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  7. Mr. Point Of View3:52 pm, October 12, 2013

    if kagawa in cheap would u consider??? there are hi possibility he a bargain.....

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  8. Ya, i guess i confused. Ya he said that he actually supports LFC in an interview and i believe i heard Mourinho isn't very interested in him, and that Bremen wants him back for the same price they sold him which i think is 15m.

    I don't know about prices. I think Di Maria worth's much more in this marker. Probably 35 AT LEAST. And Yarmolemko i know they asked for 20m or something like that, but again, i just don't rate him high, so i just wouldn't go for him.

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  9. Ya i don't mind they spread this idea over Jan and the Summer, for I am pretty positive Rodgers will shoot sideways going strong for Montoya, maybe another defender as the news suggest all the time, and maybe some Winger, or a stikier [Which an extra striker might be something that we do actually need giving the current article and Aspas seeming too animalistic-like we his approach - I'm sorry to have say it - to get his composure right and maximize his talent under pressure, which might would have been enough to be an LFC player].

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  10. i pointed out at the time that while downing is no world beater he is a wide player ...alberto and aspas suit a 442 just behind a main striker which we dont play ..that coupled with the fact that they really arnt that good means they will have a short liverpool stay

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  11. Di Maria would go for 20m trust me and 12m would be the max we should get him for.

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  12. Please don't patronise me. I don't misunderstand it at all. At Celta, Aspas played much higher up the pitch. Rodgers would've known this when he signed him. Thus, making him play deeper is playing him out of position, and is a mistake. Aspas himself admits this. Rodgers should've bought someone who *suits* playing deeper. Instead, he tries to shoehorn Aspas into a role he's not cut out for.

    The bottom line is Rodgers is using Aspas in a way that will not get the best out of him. He needs to play higher up the field, but that won't happen with Suarez and Sturridge in the team. Rodgers should've seen this and bought a different type of player.

    Aspas is not 'perfect' for the way LFC want to play. There's no evidence to support that, but there is plenty of evidence to show that playing him deeper than he's used to = ineffective performances.

    It is a total waste of £8m; in fact, add Alberto in too because that is also a waste. It is not the players' fault here; it's Rodgers buying the wrong type of players.

    The same applies to Allen. Liverpool did not need him, yet Rodgers splurged £15m. And for what? He's a man without a position, and will struggle to be a regular for the club. Rodgers has made good signings, but he has also made a raft of poor choice.

    Sahin is another one. An excellent central mid, and like so many others, Rodgers played him out of position, and totally wasted his talent.

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  13. managers will tinker with a system to accommodate good players ...without sounding funny you wouldn't tinker with a system to accommodate aspas and alberto

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  14. Spurs have been a bit ordinary without Bale. If anything, Soldado looks like the worst purchase of the season. The EPL is so much more physically demanding than La Liga. Even Lamela looks like he is going to struggle coming from Serie A. lamela cannot even get into the Spurs starting eleven!

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  15. Why spend £16m on those two, then? If they can't get into the team in their natural positions, what's the point? Why not just spend that cash on one top-class right/left-sided midfielder?

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  16. If he makes two signings same as that he did last Jan window am sure we all would be happy and forget all of his failures. ;)

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  17. They were bought to add depth the the squad, I think that was the idea?

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  18. Good point about Downing. Not the greatest player but he filled a specific role in the team, and provided width. As you say, Aspas and Alberto are best suited higher up the pitch just off the front man (or in Aspas's case, centrally as a striker), and with Coutinho in the squad, that 'aint happening. Even without Coutinho, Aspas can't get a game in the number 10 role, but even if he did, he'd struggled (IMO) as it's not his best position.

    So sick of Rodgers wasting money on players the club doesn't need and/or buying players and then using them incorrectly.

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  19. What does he expect - start ahead of SAS or LFC to go for 38 match league season with 11 players? There must be back ups & in that regard, I think, we are still short of 1 striker - come Jan, we should try to get Balotelli.


    Aspas can be a 4th choice CF at best, worth of his price tag. He played for relegation battlers in Spain & was never good enough to start for a top 6 club in EPL. Actually, in Spain he is well reputed (to the negative sense) & had never been part of any youth Spanish side. With his technical ineptness & physical ability, his slow speed & position sense, if he aspire to start in England, his best place 'll be Championship. I think, his only good attribute is his ball skill (but not at speed) & ball distribution, which could be sufficient to survive is La Liga, but not in EPL. Also, before Jan, we don't have cup ties & are out of Europe - he is just not good enough to start in EPL.



    If he is upset, instead of trying to have some minutes as back up striker, he should look to move back to Spain. BR is trying him as winger or No. 10 because, we are sort of players. After Jan acquisition, I am sure he 'll be used as back up CF. It was a mistake to give him No. 9 shirt & that has gone on to his head.



    BR is perfectly ok with his strategy - he needed a backup CF & has got a cheaper one. He is 26 & 'll not improve much, hence unlike Borini, wasn't loaned. A squad player with low salary & I am quite ok with that. We can always sale him with minimum loss & replace adequately. & surely, it's not a case of Chacharito or Kawaga, where 2 better players are sacrificed for hacks like Welback, Young or Cleverly.

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  20. Depth of the squad? How does having two players who'll play rarely, and when played, will be utilised in the wrong position, help the effectiveness of the squad?

    Squad players should still be able to have an impact on the team, and Aspas hasn't as yet, and that's because (IMO) he's utilised incorrectly.

    Joe Allen is the comparison I would use here. Cost £15m, but how exactly does he enhance the squad? He's had zero positive impact on LFC since arriving, and he's in his second season. Again, with Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson, there's no space for him, but this was obvious *before* he signed. So why sign him?

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  21. thats always been the crux of a lot of my arguments we spend money on players that fil a position we dont require....Rogers preaches a certain system but the players he signs are rarely suitable for the role they are bought for

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  22. I don't think so. The writing is already on the wall, just as it was with Allen and Borini last season. I don't blame them, or Aspas and Alberto - if they fail, it is Rodgers' fault. Liverpool did not (and do not) need those four players. They don't fit into the team, and they're back up for positions they don't even play. It's a waste of £40+ million. That money should've gone on players for specific roles that needed to be filled, i.e. DM, and dedicated left/right midfielders. Why is LFC *still* in a situation where Jordan Henderson has to play on the right? That should've been addressed over the summer, but instead, Rodgers wasted the money.

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  23. im sick of all this depth of squad baloney...when a manager says that what he means is he bought them for the first team and now realizes they are not up to it

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  24. Allen was signed because Rodgers needed a player that could instill his playing style. Allen was our best midfielder at the start of last season. He was racking up MOM awards and that was playing as a defensive midfielder which he is not. Allen will make his doubter eat humble pie. Injuries unfortunately have not helped him.


    Aspas and Alberto are to early to judge.



    Right now we play a 3-4-1-2 system. Is Aspas going to keep Suarez or Sturridge on the bench? He was signed as backup. Alberto is still a spring chicken so not sure why people are ranting and raving about him not making the first eleven.

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  25. "Rodgers wasted the money" is your opinion, not everyone elses.

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  26. The idea that Allen somehow 'instilled' Rodgers' playing style is a total myth. People who espouse this view make it sound like Liverpool were incapable of playing passing football without Allen, which is not true. So he won a couple of man of the match awards; big deal. How did that translate into sustained success for LFC on the field?

    I don't doubt Allen's talent; his ability is not the issues, it's where he fits in. With Lucas, Gerrard and Henderson, there is simply no space for Allen to play regularly. If there is, please outline how exactly he will be a regular starter this season in midfield, especially with the reduced number of games.

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  27. allen was a comfort signing to suggest he was bought to instill a style on lucas ( brazillian international ) and gerrard and hendo both english internationals is absurd

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  28. You can get all those players, sure, but we will have the same problem Arsenal used to have: they're just mercenaries with no attachment to the country or the club beyond their contracts. You might as well enjoy watching them for whoever they play for at the moment as for Liverpool, if you see my point.



    I wonder if we took a shot at players like Aaron Lennon and Will Hughes we might get more out of them in the long term. Just puttin' it out there!

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  29. alberto allen aspas and borini will be sold as there is no where for them to play....sturidge and tino will succeed because there is...thats it in a nutshell all this guff about they will become good is rubbish because they will not play any games to substantiate this

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  30. But Sahin turned out not to be excellent. He turned out to be, frankly, not good enough, with no tactical discipline whatsoever, and it looked like he made no effort really to fit in. I hear what you're saying on Aspas, and like you I hope he can come good. But it won't be anyone else's fault but his own if he can't make the step up.

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  31. Is that really a fair appraisal? Sahin is a very good player; he was good for Madrid and Dortmund, but all of sudden he's not very good for LFC? In Sahin's own words:

    "Brendan Rodgers wanted me to play as a No 10. But I do not play behind the forwards. I spoke with him and asked him why I was playing there. It is not my real position. The boss could not answer me"

    How was Sahin supposed to prosper playing in a role he'd never played before? He's a deep-lying midfielder, but just like with Allen, he couldn't play there because of Gerrard and Lucas being automatic starters.

    All of which begs the question once again: why bring Sahin in if Rodgers had no intention of playing to his strengths and using him in the right position?

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  32. Spot on. Look what happens when you use players in the right position; shockingly, the prosper. We saw the same with Henderson last weekend - best player on the pitch (arguably), yet he'll probably he shunted out to the right again for the next game.

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  33. The article completely ignores the fact that Johnson and Enrique have played as our wingers for most of Rodgers' time as manager. When they go forward Lucas stays; giving us 3 centre-backs.

    Rodgers has mentioned changing dynamics throughout a match and this is what he means. Wingers are usually overpriced, overrated, one-trick ponies etc

    Rodgers has said he wants to work with a smaller group of players and have competition - therefore, pretty much all players need to be versatile.

    As for Aspas... it's a long season, he'll get opportunities, if he doesn't it may well mean Sturridge, Suarez, Coutinho and Moses have remained fit, which surely is a good thing for us. They all have more experience in this league and/or are better.

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  34. This is way too critical of a manager who is joint top of the league and whose results since the beginning of the year have been comparable with the best in the division where points and goals scored are concerned.

    It's only a waste of £40m if we give them away, highly unlikely that, isn't it. If we made a loss and recouped £30m it would be considered wear and tear and is offset by bargains such as Mignolet and Coutinho. As it stands, I'm sure they'll each have opportunities.

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  35. Rodgers knows where his players fit in. Time is very much on Allen's side.

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  36. Well I do not think the money on Aspas and Alberto have been wasted.


    Aspas was signed to fill different roles i,e, wide right in a front three as a striker. He is a squad player.


    Alberto is still young, has many years ahead of him and has many more days ahead of him to prove his worth.
    .
    That is my opinion of course.

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  37. That doesn't answer the question I asked. Please explain how - given the reduced number of games - Allen will get regular starts this season with Lucas, Hendo and Gerrard in the team

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  38. Gerrard and Lucas aren't exactly setting the world alight and once Allen is back to full match fitness then we may see some changes in our midfield.

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  39. you answered your own question m8, Gerrard and Lucas haven't set the world alight for several seasons but Allen hasn't come close to moving them ....Rogers wants to succeed and to succeed he must learn, and hes realized that at the top level all this metronome player is guff....hes been vocal about the midfield needing to chip in more with goals so how will allen solve this .....Allen is a niche player, at a club like swansea he may well have had a team built to suit him...that just wont happen at liverpool with players like suarez & tino to build a team around

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  40. Allen has been injured. If it was not for his shoulder problem last season then he would have very much cemented his place in the starting eleven but obviously you will argue with that.

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  41. at whose expense....who will Allen replace

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  42. There's nothing really to support that view. There is, however, plenty of persuasive evidence to suggest that Gerrard and Lucas would've kept their places, even if Allen didn't get injured, the most persuasive of which is that Lucas immediately displaced Allen when he returned from injury last season.

    Also, Allen may've had a shoulder injury, but that didn't become an issue until the last month of the season. For the 8 months before that, he was clearly behind Lucas, Allen and Hendo in the pecking order. How is that going to change now, and where will he fit in?

    Allen was a pointless purchase. It has nothing to do with his talent or ability. He is a very good player; he's just clearly not needed at LFC.

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  43. It is pointless discussing this any further unless you want to go around in circles? When Allen is fully match fit then Rodgers will show you at who's expense it will be.

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  44. It's not pointless. It's debate. If you can't debate the point then don't raise it in the first place. Just making some speculative prediction like 'Rodgers will show you at whose expense it will be' is not an argument, it's a copout.

    You've been asked a question, so why don't you answer it: How will Allen get regular starts in a team that contains Lucas, Henderson and Gerrard? What evidence from the past is there to suggest that Allen will be played regularly ahead of those three?

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  45. Obviously it's your opinion; what else would it be?

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  46. I have told you that time is very much on allen's side. Do you think Allen was signed based on one season? This is absolutely pointless when one is basing their opinion on the now not thinking about the future.

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  47. Allen is 23; he's not some 18-year old bought 'for the future'. And again, that's just a copout. You don't spend £15m on a player you think will come good five years after the purchase. Allen does not fit in; and if he's still around when Gerrard retires, he still won't fit in. Additionally, Liverpool don't play the type of game that requires a player like Allen (i.e. someone who just endlessly keeps the ball and adds little else), and that's the crux of the issue.

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  48. Ity is your opinion that Allen does not fit in.

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  49. Sahin looked a good bet, as you say, he had good references. But he turned out to be a lazy self-interested guy who didn't want to strive to improve the team. Probably why he failed at Madrid, too.

    Rodgers is looking for character and intelligence, isn't he, a "strong mentality" as he's always saying, players who "want to learn", as he's also always saying. Sahin plainly didn't have what it takes to be a Liverpool player.

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  50. I'd want to suggest that one of the reasons Sturridge is good is because he has played as a deep creative forward at Bolton, and as a wide attacker for Chelsea. He has learned his game, and he's all the better for it.

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  51. Downing was decent, but he was on insane money. I think 6 games into the season is too soon to be sick of anything! But strong feelings make for good arguments :)

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  52. With that comment, I'm referring to last summer's transfer spending too.

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  53. Stop posting comments saying 'it's only your opinion'. Obviously, when people post, they're stating their opinion, and they don't need you to tell everyone that.

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  54. What kind of question is that? So what if Rodgers manages the team; that doesn't mean he's infallible. What you're suggesting is that Rodgers can never be criticised because he 'manages the team'.

    It's obvious from the available evidence that Allen does not fit into the team.

    * He's not an attacking mid.
    * He's not a defensive mid.
    * He doesn't score/create often.
    * There are other players in the squad who always get selected ahead of him.
    * He's made no discernible positive impact since arriving.

    Etc.

    Instead of posting comments designed to muddy the waters and avoid the issue, perhaps you should stick to the point of the debate.

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  55. Managers and teams evolve ,what a manager may think one season doesn't necessarily translate into the next...Henderson playing more and rogers starting with 3 at the back is testament to that...Rogers has grasped that all that matters is the present in regards to results ..there is no bedding in time at this level...the numbers just dont add up for allen there are 3 positions up for grabs with hendo lucas tino and gerrard ..plus allen in contention if you throw into the mix several other midfielder both offensive and defensive being mentioned for possible purchase and where does allen go.....and thats not including alberto and suso who can go into the mix...Its not a question of liking allen its a question of wasting £15 million on a player who isn't needed

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  56. Actually last season, Liverpool had a higher win ratio with Allen on the team. 48% with Allen vs. 42% overall.

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  57. you make some valid points about sahin but surely are scouting structure and rogers himself as well as his advisors are to blame ....i mean did rogers not meet with him and discuss the role he wanted him to play ...this is basic business acumen

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  58. you can ply that argument to tom ince,shelvey and a host of others ...the reality is you have a couple of seasons to make the team and then your out

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  59. you miss the point ...just imagine how much praise rogers would be getting and how much stronger a position we would be in if he had spent that money wisely ....look at the impact sturridge and tino have made for 20m just imagine the position we would be in if rogers had spent double that on similar players

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  60. How does that have any bearing on Rodgers's use of Allen, and whether he fits into the team? Perhaps you could outlone how Allen will get regular starts this season ahead of Lucas, Gerrard and Hendo?



    Sent from Samsung Mobile

    -------- Original message --------

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  61. its a positional argument im making not a financial one we have replaced a wide player with a player who isnt a wide player to play a wide players role if that makes sense

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  62. I agree Jamie, we have to stop wasting money. Some times think we get players from you tube clips. It's the only industry where you can squander millions and get away with it. How much do you think we would get if we sold these players January? Bet it would'nt be £40 mill.

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  63. Approving


    Sent from Samsung Mobile

    -------- Original message --------

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  64. Gonalons, Alonso, Ba, Adan and Honda. Totals to around 20-25m..
    Mignolet
    Toure---Agger/ Skrtl---Sakho
    Alonso---Gerrard
    Continuo
    Moses. Enrique
    Sturridge---Suarez

    SUB: Adan, Kelly, Wisdom, Lucas, Henderson, Aspas/ Ibe, Sterling

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  65. go away kanwwwaarr

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  66. You miss the point... No manager ever has a perfect transfer record over time. Surely, you don't think Tino and Sturridge can be replicated in EVERY window?

    Allen or Aspas can only be written off by complete knee-jerk lunatics, Alberto and Ilori will get chances.

    Perhaps we bought a £40m Ozil with the money and he gets homesick or injured? Bang goes your window!

    Perhaps your ideal 11 plays 90 minutes of every game? It's beyond optimistic. We should be developing players and you can expect us to have a turnover of players who don't make it.

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  67. Comes to something when the comments make more sense than the article. Think we just need to have a minute here.


    Alberto is a young player still cutting his teeth, who shares some similarities with coutinho but needs to develop.


    Allen was our best player for two months so lets give the lad a break.
    Borini makes all the right runs but clearly lacks confidence so a loan is the way to go before making any decision.


    Aspas just needs to keep his head down and work harder, but his attitude is a concern. He needs to take a look at Henderson and Skirtel who have smashed their way into the team.


    May I just add one final comment the team is joint top and we are yet to play our strongest side this season.

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  68. "Perennial

    Lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring."


    4 started out of 9 games. Subbed in in a further 2 games. Perennial indeed.


    Whilst I agree that playing strikers as wingers can be unfiar on that player the same could be said if you are playing wingers in the roles that these players are playing. The "inverted winger" is a difficult position to play for those players not adaptable enough to play there. Oddly I felt that downing shouldn't have been let go when he was as I thought he could do a (unspectacular, yet) good job there.

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  69. I've not been impressed with Soldado even though quite a few people are. Yes he does what he's supposed to do and that's to score goals but he doesn't seem to put a shift in, he waits for it to come to him and doesn't really add anything in the build up except finish which obviously goals win games but in forever evolving football that is simply not enough. Strikers have to come midfielders and even help out and defend. Midfielders have to do a lot more and defenders even ave to attack now and IMO this is making football a lot more exciting to watch. You no longer can rest on your laurels. You have to constantly attack or be on your guard otherwise with one tiny slip up you've thrown away what you have worked for. Soldado doesn't seem to do any of this but score goals and players like him are becoming a dying breed. The classic goal poacher is becoming a thing of the past. That's the reason why Michael Owen struggled to get games when he wasn't injured but because poachers are seen as no longer useful not because he lost his pace but because he was no longer regarded as useful. (He couldn't get into Stoke because he wasn't the right sort of striker for them. They just saw that Michael Owen was available on a free and thought that would boost the clubs shirt sales.)

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  70. I completely agree with the Borini statement. He does the right runs. He is brilliant off the ball but I think he just needs the confidence to start being effective when the ball gets played to him.

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  71. Hey man, I'm jut sayin, Liverpool win more with him than without. That being said, when he returns from injury (soon) he will find a role, possibly as an impact sub for either Gerrard,Lucas or Henderson. His passing is good, in pre-season he was more offensive than last season, so he has something to add.


    I welcome gerrard/ lucas coming off for him, so long as everoyone gives 100% focus and intensity while their on the pitch - gerrard can't do this for much more than 1 half.

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  72. Disagree with your last point. The price of a player is whatever a club is willing to pay. The price of any product is what the consumer is willing to pay. No such thing as transfer precedents IMO.

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  73. I don't understand how they're mercenaries. Its a profession to them just like yours is to you. Would you not leave your current employers if you got a pay rise and better perks by a new corporation? Yes, you will leave in then in a blink of an eye.
    They've their ambitions that they've got to also look out for and if it means we cannot get them then they are forced to move on.

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  74. It sounds like you define Aspas entirely by how he played last season at Celta Vigo. That's quite an assumption on your part. And there is no evidence he can play as required for Liverpool? What about pre-season, or our first game against Stoke? I recall not too long ago you were saying Aspas was one of our better players. Sure, he's lost his starting spot but that's because he's ultimately a squad player so it's perfectly reasonable to see him on the bench. Are you objecting to having talent on the bench now? You think depth in our squad is a problem? A player doesn't have a guaranteed starting role in the team so it's a waste? I think you need to check the amount of money teams like Chelsea and City have sitting on their benches, sometimes not even making the game-day squad.


    Aspas is being asked to play exactly the same role as Suarez and Sturridge. He did it pre-season and he also did it against Stoke. He's been quite effective, you're being purposely ignorant if you're forgetting all the quite clear evidence that he CAN play well for us. He then had a couple of poor performances against better teams and has lost his spot to players who SHOULD be starting ahead of him. For him to say it's "hard" is entirely as expected. If he was to play the way he did for Celta then it simply wouldn't be good enough. He's being asked to step up and it's very appropriate for him to struggle with that, initially. Being a striker for Liverpool requires you to do more than just sit on the shoulder of the defender and wait for a killer pass.



    The overwhelming amount of evidence you need to examine here are the games that Aspas has actually played, not only the most recent ones. In most games, including the pre-season, he played the role as required and did it well. Against tougher teams he started to struggle with it. It's now up to him to get back to the form he had earlier and produce those same qualities against better defenders. There is no question he has the potential to do it, he already has, but of course it's going to be "hard" in this league, against real quality teams. That's the point of coming to play in the Premier League. It's got almost nothing to do with him being "out of position", it's simply about quality of play at a higher level and a higher work rate.


    You seem very inconsistent on the idea of competition for places and having quality on the bench. You claimed we should have gone for Lukaku but he would have started no more often than Aspas. He also would not have been suitable to playing the same role as Suarez and Sturridge. You argue that Allen is a waste but lately you're calling for us to buy a defensive midfielder as competition for Lucas. Wouldn't that mean Lucas is on the bench as a "man without a position"? What's wrong with having Allen on the bench, waiting to take a midfield role from whoever is not performing?


    Alberto is clearly also a player for the future, why on earth would you conclude so early in his career that he's a waste? Do you have a problem with us spending money on good quality younger players who we can groom to take over in the future? Why?

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  75. "Depth of the squad? How does having two players who'll play rarely, and when played, will be utilised in the wrong position, help the effectiveness of the squad?"


    I'll have to keep this quote saved away somewhere. The number of times you've said something entirely contrary to this ... it's like you think we shouldn't have good players on the bench.

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  76. Can't believe the discussion migrated from Aspas to Allen. Allen was a terrible purchase and will remain that way. Injured or not, he is too easily overpowered, doesn't move forward and gets trampled defending other teams mids. He slowed our pace to a crawl when he was playing, constantly going backward or making useless lateral passes. Sell him to the next level down along with Borini and get a skilled speedy and attack-minded midfielder!

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  77. Well I totally disagree with you on Allen. I see him playing a very big part in Rodgers plans.


    We will have this discussion again when i am proven right.

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  78. You won't be proven right.




    Sent from Samsung Mobile

    -------- Original message --------

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  79. Henderson is the best example of a player that was hailed as a failure and look at him now. He served all his doubters humble pie. We might have overpaid slightly for him but now he is a regular in the team.



    This talk about Aspas, Alberto and Allen already being a waste of money is once again premature. Aspas may need to beef up a bit but technically he is a good player. Out of the three Aspas may be the player who ends up on the wayside but let me say this...


    Alberto and Allen will, I repeat will be serving humble pie to each and every one of their naysayers.

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  80. Henderson is totally different to Allen. With the type of player he is, there's room for him in the team. Plus, he brings something to the party, i.e. attacking threat, physical presence etc. Additionally, he's been a fixture in the team for two seasons, even though his form in his first year wasn't the best.

    Allen swiftly fell out of contention in his first season, and the same thing happened at the beginning of this season.

    And again, I ask the question which you repeatedly avoid: Given the presence of Lucas, Henderson, Coutinho and Gerrard, how will Allen get regular starts this season, especially with the reduced number of games? Where does he fit in? Same applies to next season. If LFC buy more central midfielders, which is likely, where will he fit in?

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  81. I am not going to discuss Allen with you as whatever I say about him will be shot down i.e. yesterday and hence me saying yesterday that it was pointless arguing about him.

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  82. It's called debate, and different points of view. If you can't handle it, perhaps you shouldn't raise the issue in the first place.

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  83. Where did i start the Allen debate?

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  84. By 'raise the issue', I refer to your contention that Allen will come good/fits into the team etc.

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  85. I did not raise any issue. You were the one that said he is a waste of money and does not fit into the team.


    I was merely trying to give my opinion that Allen has a big part to play in Rodgers plans but got shot down everytime so like I said, when the time is right then we will have this discussion again.


    Time is on Allen's side.

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  86. Hardly 2 months and the writing is on the wall. But when it is Hodgson, the Liverpool fans drove him out. Seeing any similarities?

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  87. Did Rodgers have to discuss with Henderson that he would be playing right wing back at any stage in his LFC career?


    Henderson did what was asked of him and has never once thrown his toys out of the cot. Maybe if Sahin had the same attitude as Henderson then things might have been different.

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  88. Di Maria will go to Arsenal

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  89. If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

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  90. Would you leave out Sturridge or Suarez to accommodate Aspas? Didn't think so..... a word to Aspas, stop whingeing and play the football we expected when we bought you. Don't like LFC?, just stop blaming the system, and the coach, try harder, or just piss off back to SPAIN

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  91. No, I wouldn't, actually. I'm settled. I've invested years of energy in my career to get established where I am. I love working with people I trust, whose lives are connected with mine in meaningful ways. I wouldn't even consider a move, for any money.

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  92. allen , alberto etc may well improve as players but rogers cant take chances in the prem and cant afford to cock up in another cup so early so he will play his best team every time....whether fans like it or not hendo is holding the baton so rogers cant afford to move him...Gerrard is his captain...tino will be played when fit and lucas is deemed untouchable so once again where do these fringe players go .....the problem with a lot of our current fringe players also is they are hardly impact goal scorers as well so that limits there chance of being brought on in the game.

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  93. and ill gladly accept my serving.....this isn't about rating these guys as players its about there suitability to a role ...in the system we play there is no role for them...i was a big fan of Carroll when we signed him from Newcastle since watching him as a 16 or17 year old giving an Italians team defense a nightmare i thought this kid is something ...but the reality is and its a reality that i didn't want to accept is there was just no first 11 role for him at anfield ....

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  94. According to you there is no role for Allen.I said before that this argument will end up going in circles.


    Humble pie will be served.

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  95. I think that's mostly true -- not the whole story of course -- though trends emerge during and across transfer windows. But yes, I overstated that I think, just to force the point that Aspas, Alberto, Borini, were not expensive by current standards.

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  96. Well, I am afraid not everyone is like you and the majority wants more money. I will get off topic if I discuss over you so lets end it here.

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  97. Yeah, that's what I fear. He could be the long awaited RW that LFC wants and will make it so strong down the right wing with him and Johnson constantly bombarding from there.

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  98. Using JK's own reasoning re Suarez, the 48 vs 42% win ratio should mean he would advocate Allen playing.
    Sadly, no such consistency exists......

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  99. I'm 100% with you on this. Aspas was an easy buy, a guy who has the basic set of skills and attitude required to contribute for the team, but who isn't going to command a regular starting role unless he can do it consistently at the same level as Suarez or Sturridge. He's perfect for a bench role or as a guy to bring in when we have injuries. That he says it's "hard" and that he'd like to play more often is just the life of a footballer at LFC and it's certainly not something to be concerned about. If he wants to be a star at the club then he'll have to produce at the top level and that includes doing things that he might not be used to when playing for a club at the bottom of La Liga that scored barely enough goals to keep them up.

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  100. Allen can play anywhere in the midfield, he's shown that already in his Liverpool career. He effectively replaced an injured Lucas last season. He's also played alongside Gerrard in front of Lucas and in pre-season this year he's played as an attacking midfielder. You yourself have been complaining that our midfield hasn't been good enough so I would question instead where does Allen NOT fit in the team and what evidence do you have that supports this? If any one of our those 4 players you mention are off their game then Allen is capable of stepping in. Call it rotation or depth in the squad, it does beggar belief that you have an issue with it. Having a guy like Allen on the bench, ready to take a role in the team at the first problem with injury or suspension is exactly what we need.


    The only issue with the player is his form. There was a period when he first came to the club where he was playing well, starting regularly and we were winning games. There are a number of very clear examples of Allen being part of a successful Liverpool midfield, there is no way you can deny that as we've won games with him playing in every midfield position. He is capable, but obviously if he falls away from his peak performance he's not going to be picked. That's how it is for any footballer in the top tier but for you it seems as soon as that happens then it's off the knackers yard, career over. It's nonsense. Allen played well and then, for whatever reason, dropped off. It's up to him to regain that form again and when he does he'll challenge every single one of those players for their spot. How you can think that's a bad thing just blows my mind.

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  101. "Part Messi/Part Monster"...Wow, people compare players to Messi way too easity/much these days.
    Aspas was a puzzling signing for me. He's a striker yet we've played him out of position a few times this season. You can't play players out of position and then expect the same they have the same impact on the game. Look at Cisse and Kuyt?!
    I know it's only been a few games but Aspas needs to play up front, not on the wings or sides. But let's face it, with SAS playing well he is not going to get a sniff in.
    Him and Alberto puzzle me. Bought for good money yet they barely play. No doubt we'll sign one or two this Jan so I am interested to see what positions.

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  102. Fair enough! And no question the *majority of people* want more money, in the world, because absolutely *most* of them have next to nothing. But it depends on our sample, doesn't it? And when we are talking about elite professional footballers, we are talking about people who are already at the top of their profession, and earning -- wherever they play -- the kind of wages that even the *minority* who *do* have enough will never, ever, come close to being paid.


    So footballers are a minority within a minority; you have to develop different rules and value-judgements to interpret their motives and behaviour than you would apply to a low-waged manual worker, a rural day-labourer, or an unpaid domestic worker (things the majority of people in the world do). Accordingly it would be disgusting to call someone living on $2 a day, which is the reality faced by one third of the world's population, a mercenary, because someone offered them $5 a day to work for them. It would be disgusting, even if they moved from "good" work to more morally questionable and insecure work, wouldn't it; because they have so little to lose.

    But as I say, football is different. The choices faced by footballers are not subsistence choices, and there are other factors involved, which -- to cut a long story short -- can leave them more open to moral disapproval than the majority of us, you are absolutely right, should ever be.

    TLDR: With great big piles of money comes great responsibility.

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