In his pre-Aston Villa press conference yesterday, Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers confirmed Liverpool's interest in Brazilian attacker Willian, and reiterated his desire to bring the 'best players' to Anfield. Rodgers has now expanded upon the Willian transfer fail, and explained exactly why the Reds pulled out of the deal.
According to The Guardian last night:
"Fenway Sports Group refused to pay above their valuation of Willian.
"The Anfield club were close to a £30m deal at the weekend only for an improved package from Spurs to prompt the owners to withdraw".
Rodgers also confirmed that finances causes the failure of the deal, claiming that the club 'pushed as hard as they could financially', adding:
"It wasn't to be, but it wasn't a football reason. It's the owners' money and they will always have the final say. What we have to make sure of is we get the right players and the value and worth of the player is right. It's disappointing because this was a player who would have been perfect for us."
So, what does this tell us?
* It appears that Spurs either outbid Liverpool, or offered the Brazilian a higher salary.
* Considering Spurs seem to be in for Willian at £30m too, however, it's probable that the player's personal financial package is the failure point.
* If FSG sanctioned a £30m deal, it's a positive, which shows that the group is willing to spend big on the right player.
Based on Rodgers' comments, I personally don't have a problem with the Willian deal collapsing. He's an excellent player, but is he worth more than £30m? No way (IMO). He's 25, playing in Russia, and only has a couple of Brazil appearances to his name. Additionally, like most footballers, Willian appears to be yet another mercenary.
* Why would Willian choose Russia over Europe in his mid-20s? Why would a top-class player driven by real ambition do that?! The reason is simple: Money.
* Why would he reject LFC and go to Spurs when both clubs have put in the same transfer fee? Money.
* Why would he then stall on the Spurs deal and consider moving to Chelsea? Clearly, the Blues have probably offered him an even higher salary than Spurs.
Yes, I know most players are out to line their pockets, but in this case, Willian specifically stated that he 'hoped' Liverpool would make a bid, and when the club did so, he jumped ship for a (probable) higher salary. If he really wanted to sign for the Reds, he would've done so.
It's possible Willian could've been a 'perfect' buy for Liverpool, but it's also possible he could've turned into another Robinho. LFC handled this in the right way (IMO) and there's no point losing sleep over missing out on another money-grabbing mercenary.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
According to The Guardian last night:
"Fenway Sports Group refused to pay above their valuation of Willian.
"The Anfield club were close to a £30m deal at the weekend only for an improved package from Spurs to prompt the owners to withdraw".
Rodgers also confirmed that finances causes the failure of the deal, claiming that the club 'pushed as hard as they could financially', adding:
"It wasn't to be, but it wasn't a football reason. It's the owners' money and they will always have the final say. What we have to make sure of is we get the right players and the value and worth of the player is right. It's disappointing because this was a player who would have been perfect for us."
So, what does this tell us?
* It appears that Spurs either outbid Liverpool, or offered the Brazilian a higher salary.
* Considering Spurs seem to be in for Willian at £30m too, however, it's probable that the player's personal financial package is the failure point.
* If FSG sanctioned a £30m deal, it's a positive, which shows that the group is willing to spend big on the right player.
Based on Rodgers' comments, I personally don't have a problem with the Willian deal collapsing. He's an excellent player, but is he worth more than £30m? No way (IMO). He's 25, playing in Russia, and only has a couple of Brazil appearances to his name. Additionally, like most footballers, Willian appears to be yet another mercenary.
* Why would Willian choose Russia over Europe in his mid-20s? Why would a top-class player driven by real ambition do that?! The reason is simple: Money.
* Why would he reject LFC and go to Spurs when both clubs have put in the same transfer fee? Money.
* Why would he then stall on the Spurs deal and consider moving to Chelsea? Clearly, the Blues have probably offered him an even higher salary than Spurs.
Yes, I know most players are out to line their pockets, but in this case, Willian specifically stated that he 'hoped' Liverpool would make a bid, and when the club did so, he jumped ship for a (probable) higher salary. If he really wanted to sign for the Reds, he would've done so.
It's possible Willian could've been a 'perfect' buy for Liverpool, but it's also possible he could've turned into another Robinho. LFC handled this in the right way (IMO) and there's no point losing sleep over missing out on another money-grabbing mercenary.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Can't say I'm too bothered about missing out either, not at that sort if money. It now looks possible he'll reject Spurs for Chelski, which shows just how much of a mercenary he is, considering the deal with Tottenham was all but completed. I would like to see us sign a quality winger and a centre back before the window closes though. If we can do that then I'll be content.
ReplyDeleteI think many have chosen Russua over other European clubs only because of money, but once they're there, they realize the football isn't the best and want out!
ReplyDeleteHulk too and Eto'o will soon follow!
It's unfortunately but true! Money is a major factor!
Crazy to think £100k per week is so much better than £110! I mean seriously, at those prices who cares for the extra £10k per week!
The agent of the player might also have been influential in pointing the player in the direction of the highest bidder for both his and the players gain.
ReplyDeleteToo Right ..onward and upward still funny that spurs gazump got gazumped there should be a new word for that
ReplyDeleteI think we've spent fairly wisely this summer so to splash out £30m on just one player when our more recent signings average out at around £8-10m per player seems excessive.
ReplyDeleteSpurs have spent the Bale money quite well, how he is worth £90+m I will never know and ultimately neither will Real Madrid but there you go - it's much easier to buy £30m players when you have £90m in the bank.
i understand a bit and am dissapointed to but it doesnt change the fact that we need a LW/ST before the window closes. There are a few players still out there but liverpool have to bid now. Muriel would be class and would cost 25 mill i reckon.
ReplyDeleteAlso with coates injured and rogers wanting to loan wisdom we need a CB. Its getting very tight now with 10 days to go.
Agents get blamed way too much, and unfairly IMO. Do players now have minds of their own? An Agent will say 'X, Y and Z have offered this', but the player ultimately makes the decision about where to go, not the Agent.
ReplyDeleteYour right but in this case was there not some issue with a 5mil signing on fee or something like that, that the Agent was demanding the buying club cover ? Of course that might all be paper talk.
ReplyDeleteI am glad the club missed out on Willian at 30 million it was way too much rather get the likes of Lamela and have a bid at a 10 mill pounder than get him.
ReplyDeleteOur big chance of overtaking Spurs is if they are unwise with their spending i think 30 mill wasted there anyway.
Willian would've been a good signing, but there's always other players out there
ReplyDeleteTbh if we're looking at bringing a group through together, bringing in somebody new that immediately sees himself as the star (or marquee in modern terms) could be bad for the team anyway, if only because it then leads to teammates becoming disgruntled with their comparatively meagre contracts
Also I know they are getting the Bale money but they look like they are going to spend that all this window but with these players signing long contracts where is the money going to come from for wages in the long term ? They cant even get rid off Ady who is on a big wage. This could be trouble for them down the line. I would love to see some more signings but we seem to be a lot more sensible and still have room for the youths to develop and get a little first team action.
ReplyDeleteThere is, gagazumped. :-)
ReplyDeleteThe Bale signing is ridiculous and just goes to remind me why I despise Madrid.
ReplyDeleteha or GiGazumped carrying on from Back to the Future yesterday.
ReplyDeletenice one calel ...wait a second ha
Well i suppose C.L money is what they are hoping for in the future i dont think they have spent the money from Modric yet though.
ReplyDeleteThis guy is very irritating. He specifically pointed Liverpool out and when we bid for him he doesn't sign. This guy is not worth putting on the red shirt even if he's good. I'm glad they decided not to get him, hopefully we can find another winger so that coutinho can slot in the middle.
ReplyDeleteWe have been linked to everyone but for some Walt Disney story
ReplyDeletewe don't get them .
The biggest reason Falcoa Ibrahimovich Torres Money the modern day footballer follows the cash .
We are lowering the wage bill mostly buy selling player and looking at cheaper ones as for wages . Today that's not enough to bring star players that will take club forward .
Because of the carroll 35mil waste the owners are dirty on that and wont buy High priced players and they don't care what we think or what we want .
FSG wants us to be competitive but don't really care for top 4 if we LFC are in profit that looks better for future sale its that simple.
98% of the players we are linked to FSG want someone to come in and get them like spurs cause that's the reason they tell us.
And now all we are Going for is a CD.
Sad but true
Excellent Article
ReplyDeleteThey haven't even been paid all of the Modric money yet ha ! They have been proper Arthur Dailyed there. Its a big gamble on the CL the last club to gamble like that was Leeds
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. I always refer back to Fernando Morientes. Newcastle bid 8m euros, LFC bid 9.3m euros, but Real Madrid accepted LFCs bid when Morientes made it clear, he only wanted to join LFC. Players have the power, if Willian was dead set on joining LFC, then Spurs, Chelsea whoever bidding would have made no difference whatsoever. So, for me...I'm happy he's not signed.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't sad. We aren't going to receive a world record bid for any of our players right now and there's no point in bringing some player for over the top wages and then not getting qualified for the CL. FSG are following a model which I think is based upon lowering the wage bill till we get into the CL (IMO), and from there on we could spend like the other clubs which generate extra revenue from CL nights.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree..
ReplyDeleteWe need player who has hunger for game not money..
I have to say that although it's a bit disappointing to lose out on major signings to rival clubs, I do admire FSG's new found staunch refusal to pay silly over-the-odds prices for players who simply aren't worth it - seems they have learned their lesson. The business we have done so far has been shrewd rather than spectacular. The Bale saga shows us just how out of hand the transfer market is getting. Great player though he is, there's no way on Earth he's worth anywhere close to £93 million odd, and Willian certainly isn't worth £30 million either. There are plenty of other alternatives.
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree with you that Willian is never worth the money and that we were right to drop our interest, I'm not sure he's the mercenary here, exactly. I'm sure others have pointed out the 'agent' thing, so I'll just leave it there.
ReplyDeleteBut you're right in my opinion - Willian is overpriced and overrated. It's just funny that Chelsea look like they've nabbed him.
What i have read and heard is that Spurs offered more than us (our bid wasn't accepted) and now Chelsea have offered more than Spurs, so i guess it is more down to the club not Willian. Saying that i am sure Willian is out to get the right deal for him as well and lets be honest Spurs is arguably a better prospect than us
ReplyDeleteSo much for financial fair play!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSpot on Jaimie
ReplyDeleteI really don't know how you can admire their stance. We could be talking as little as 5m difference between what we want to pay and what spurs offered. I understand to over spend is stupid, but that is what we need to do. We offer much less than teams in the top 4 and less than spurs at the moment, so if you want top players you need to offer them more, it's that simple.
ReplyDeleteIf we don't want top 4 then we should carry on like we are doing now
By the way, for all the fans blaming FSG - Kenny has a lot to do with their reluctance to splash the cash. So don't be blinkered enough to purely "blame the Yanks" again. Some mistakes were of our own making.
ReplyDelete"Another Robinho"... that rings true.
ReplyDeleteSpot on Jaimie..I would prefer Adem Ljajic over him..younger, played in a better league..scored a good number of goals last season and CHEAPER as well..
ReplyDeleteRumour has it that his agent was holding out for a CL club to put in a bid anyway. Think like many headline players he has an annoying leech of an agent who tries to whore out his player (A bit strong I know, but agents get right up my nose!) Not gonna lose too much sleep over Willian as the guy isn't really a goal scorer IMO. I'm just glad we are targeting top or so called top players. There's still a slim chance we can pull off a couple of great signings (for the club). So far we've arguably had a fairly decent window (Despite what some may say). Aspas looks good so far, Toure looks like he's played for us for ages and Mignolet.... I also think Cissokho will be great. Just need a couple of players 1 defender and one attacker. Also, for all those who worry about lack of cover for Lucas...Toure can play in that position as well.
ReplyDeleteNone the less agents are slime and players are often not clever enough to see the agents motive in filling his own pocket whilst advising a player to move.
ReplyDeleteVery true JK but agents have a lot of power over players these days due to the amount of money involved. As morally upstanding as some players may be, money talks and agents make an absolute killing when it comes to fees.
ReplyDeleteHowever you slice it, £30 million plus for an overrated player like Willian does not make sense. A few years in the Russian league won't have done his game too much good either. That money would be better spent elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteLook at how Spurs have spent their Bale Money.... Look at how we spent our £100m. Where Spurs are now are where we SHOULD have been. Sad fact that Kenny really has set us back so much, pity because he's the last person who would want us where we are.
ReplyDeleteI totally disagree with this. Players would have to be mentally impaired for this to be true. Fans always seem so willing to allow players to relinquish responsibility, but the reality is that players hold the power, not agents, Players *pay* their agents after all; Agents are employees. Players discuss everything with their agents, and the players make the decisions.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested in a hypothetical example of exactly how an Agent can pull the wool over a players' eyes, or make a player sign for a club he didn't choose himself.
Yes, I agree, but the player ultimately decides whether to sign for club X, Y or Z, not the Agent.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if they have spent their bail money yet makes it all the more worrying.
ReplyDeleteYou could be right that the money could be better spent else where, only if we spend it though. I guess when Spurs/Chelsea sign him we will then find out if we dodged a bullet or missed out.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying we should have signed HK or Costa or Willian, but it is clear we need to sign 2 players of real quality and if we need to over pay then we should as long as the target is one BR wants.
Lets also not forget they were willing to pay 30m for Willian, so BR most want him, so paying an extra 5m surely shoudn't be an issue if this is the player BR believes will get us challenging top 4. The extra 5m doesn't make him a bad player
FFP means nothing. There are more holes in FFP than in swiss cheese. FSG were banking on the fact that FFP would mean something, they backed the wrong horse
ReplyDelete@Jaimie K
ReplyDeleteFalcao went to a promoted french team wn the best cubs wanted him. Money is always the biggest motivation.
As for brazil, there are many good players who dont get chance, remember coutinho?
I think You are defending FSG too much. Where tot. are spending madly, we are biting our nails. If you analyse BR's comments, he is really dissapointed with FSG that they did not push ahead with the deal. Why would wages concern us when we removed so much money from the wage bill.If we had signed him you guys would have hailed him as some hero.
I hope we sign turan. Otherwise we are in trouble, Real trouble.
And Jamie can you give any stats about yarmalenko.
Wouldn't be surprised if that Kia Joobrachian fellow asked for a considerable fee, especially when it could push the overall cost considerably higher and that put it out of FSG's range.
ReplyDeleteThat would be 16m pounds, sir. For muriel. And turan would cost 20m pounds, is a liverpool fan and will give everything for the shirt.
ReplyDeleteMany players are naive especially players in foreign countries moving abroad i am sure they tell them anything.
ReplyDeleteSurely you dont believe most agents are honest hard working people they are liars and live very very well off the efforts of others.
Most are salesmen con artists etc and surely cannot justify the money they make it ridiculous.
In actual fact some players would not have the business acumen to work a cash register making it that much easier.
But funnily enough Jamie the easiest people to con are those that think they are too smart to be conned.
A great point in fact with agents is if you look to boxing how many wealthy agents and poor boxers is there?
Falcao's circumstances are somewhat different as there was third party ownership involved but yes, still about money.
ReplyDeleteBeen a footie fan for as long as I can remember(I'm 40 yrs) and a red even longer as I was in the womb my mum told me I would kick like Tommy Smith,when YNWA was played!! It was only when I got older that I realized that I wasn't that unique,but infact all my brothers and sisters had the same anti-natal kicking ritual!! My mum and dad being avid reds hatched a plan(no pun intended) to ensure our house was a battalion of the red army and their devious plan worked to a tee! So for 40yrs(and more) I've been red and proud and I've even managed to spawn 3 more reds myself! As supporters we give our heart,soul and hard earned cash to follow our team all over the world,but in recent times the pampered, greedy players have been throwing it back in our faces,this can't continue?! I'd sooner languish in the championship and have our soul than pander to players who have lost all touches of reality! I sometimes wonder if my mum had've been into figure skating would torville and dean have donned my walls instead of king Kenny and the boys?! I guess I owe my mum quite a lot!!
ReplyDeleteYes that is the case but at least the club is on a firm financial footing wonder how long the sinking Spanish economy can float such wasters.
ReplyDeleteAlthough disappointing, I totally agree with Jaimie. I do think we need some more goals in the team though (to avoid what almost happened against Stoke once again). Plus a centre back.
ReplyDeletePersonally the name calling is harsh. He has to take care of his livelihood the same way Clubs want to bolster their squad. Anzhi are the ones who keeps moving the goal post. Remember he chose LFC and agreed terms with us until Spurs showed up. That's not his fault. So per your article you saying somebody like Gareth Bale is a mercenary??? Eastern European Bias to IMO
ReplyDeleteHe went to Russia because Anzhi were the only ones willing to pay Shaktar's price and they wouldn't sell him to anyone else so. To say wages were the problem is nothing more than speculation. Could be the case, could very well not be. As for 10 k more a week, these guys, especially the south american ones, often come from very poor backgrounds and they lack any education what so ever. All they have is their football career and what they make during it has to last them a lifetime. If you make 10k a week more throughout your entire career of, say, 12 years, that adds up 6.2 million quid. I would say that's worth it no?
ReplyDeletePlayers do have minds of their own but more often than not, not the brightest minds. That's why they have agents in the first place. To tell them what is best for them.
ReplyDeleteThats assuming the Agent is trustworthy and tells the player that X has even bid, or the ins and outs of the deals.....
ReplyDeleteAll depends on the agreement between player and agent. It is not only players who pay agents but also clubs. Some agents, if not all these days, require a fee (sometimes based on a percentage the value of the transfer fee), which is covered by the buying club. If the buying club does not want to cover that fee, player maybe forced not to pick that team as due to agreement with player and agent. Jorge Mendes is rumored to take a 10% fee from buying club, based on the value of transfer fee.
ReplyDeleteThe whole 'mercenary' tag is sooo overplayed and childish.
ReplyDeleteIt's become one of those words that is just thrown around by fans so much that it has become meaningless, much like 'deluded', 'loyalty', 'ambition' and the latest one, 'marquee'!
Maybe that's the case in Western Europe, but from all I've heard, in many countries - most notably in South America - the agents do actually 'own' the players, and make all of the decisions in their own interests.
ReplyDeleteRead Othello.
ReplyDeleteNo seriously, plenty of players are genuinely think and rely totally on their agents' advice. Even Fowler said as much in his autobiography, fortunately he had a genuinely good man representing him.
I think we should follow arsernals approach
ReplyDeletea fast striker on the right walcot in arsernal sturridge for us
suarez on the left like podolski
And hopefully damiao in girou position
then aspas doing gervinhos role , and sterling doing ox bringing pace
Yeah you are right!!
ReplyDeleteThis is all supposition. It's far more probable that players make their own decision about what club to join. It's human nature. Footballers - no matter how thick - will still be interested in how much they've been offered, and what clubs are interested. It's highly unlikely that players just say to their agent 'You decide for me!'
ReplyDeleteit's not overplayed at all. Many players are mercenaries out for the biggest paycheck. Just because it's prevalent doesn't mean it's irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteLoyalty and ambition are also key considerations. Players may lack those qualities, but they're still key factors for fans (rightly or wrongly).
People need to stop blaming FSG for everything. Their keeping the best interest for us. Look at what happened before when we went out of business. I never want to go back there. Rather be on safe financial ground. William isn't even worth 30 million.
ReplyDeletethis story really does not surprise me really. Liverpool really doesn't know how to compete with big clubs of the day in the market place. This is just another confirmation of what we all already know about our beloved club. I love the fact that we are an ambitious club but i wish we would really quit wasting our time pursuing marquee players if we are not prepared to spend real money.
ReplyDeleteJust like Deja-vu we see Mr Henry choking at the last minute as he claims he is not prepared to pay more than his valuation for Willian. Same thing he did last season with the Clint Dempsey deal and not too long ago with the Henrikh Mkhitaryan. Apparently the valuation of these transfer targets are okay for every other big club except for Liverpool. I personally think that Mr Henry should not be the final authority on player valuation since he really doesn't know that much about football. Yeah i know he is the one who does the spending but other clubs are paying for these players and our opposition is getting stronger as we speak yet we have a man more familiar with baseball making player valuations of our transfer targets.
I can safely say that so far under Brendan Rodgers Liverpool has not had to really compete for any player it has signed. All our transfers have been easy to pull off because we have virtually faced no opposition by any of the bigger club. These players it is important to remember can usually be categorized as average for the most part. Coutinho , Sturrigdge, and Mignolet are the only exceptions. Their transfers were a bit of good fortune because these players came into Liverpool and took their game to the next level.
We do not compete well against major clubs is the reason we lost the marquee player bids. That there is the real non footballing reason if you ask me just the same ole financial reason. Until we decide to take a risk on a player like Willian we will always be another mid-table team. There is a popular adage that says "no risk no gain." You have to take a some kind of risk in football. A player can do very well on a team and then move to another team and totally suck. Risk is part of the game Mr Henry if you are not prepared to take a little risk then you should get out of the business entirely. Thanks again for bailing us out of possible administration by the way a couple of seasons ago. Mr Henry and the good people at FSG should move on from the Kenny debacle and let Liverpool compete fully once in a while for the occasional marquee target. Unlike the Carroll deal we all know what Henrikh Mkhitaryan or Willian are fully capable of before we spend your money.
i grew up with a lad who became a pro footballer and he literally wouldn't wipe his ares without asking his agent.....he ran nearly every decision by him ..it was real odd and the lad was quite intelligent ...it was almost like it was to easy to let him decide
ReplyDeleteOf course players sign the contract at the end of the day but why do people walk into a shop to buy a TV for 500 pounds and come out with one twice as expensive with a lot of features they don't need? Because in spite of what they know about salespeople, they still fall for their apparent "know how". Agents are essentially sales people. They sell their player to the highest bidder. Now take yourself. You probably grew up supporting Liverpool and playing for Liverpool would be a lifelong ambition of yours. Then Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea come in for you but not us. Spurs offer you 10k more a week than the other two. Where do you go?
ReplyDeleteI can't see for the love of life why this player should be considered more of a mercenary than other players, past or present. The difference is, in the past we were a top team, winning things regularly, so the players would rather join us than not. These days we are not that top team any more. Other teams win significantly more trophies than we do or at least qualify for a European competition, or even have an exciting project to offer (I think Spurs have, Arsenal don't).
ReplyDeleteAnd, hand on heart, how many of us would not swap jobs if another company offered to double your salary?
the problem is the two tend to go side by side
ReplyDeleteNo, we should not overspend at all. I don't think we want to be the next Leeds. We should not spent more than we can afford.
ReplyDeleteIf we overpay now on any player and don't make an instant return to the riches of the Champions League, we would probably be in deep shit financially within 12 months.
ReplyDeleteI don't know why spending only what you've got is backing the wrong horse. FFP doesn't seem to work for the reason you gave, but that should not mean that we (or rather FSG) saddle the club with debt only to get in a few "marquee" signings in order to please sections of the fans.
ReplyDeleteI think Spurs bought pretty well and will qualify for the CL unless Arsenal or us make quite a few very, very good signing within the next ten days.
ReplyDeleteCan't say I'm too gutted by this. Obviously he's a good player but Coutinho plays essentially the same role and as such our money should be directed elsewhere. Plus £30m for a Brazillian playing in the Russian leagues and doesn't get a slot in the Brazilian team would concern me. Could be proved totally wrong and he sets the premier league alight.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me why I wouldn't follow football, if I had to make a decision about it today and not 30+ years ago. Most transfer fees are pretty silly, as are the wages players get paid.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts exactly.
ReplyDeleteAgree completely Jaimie. I would have loved to get Willian but not if we're gonna risk throwing foolish money at a player that could potentially flop and then leave us skint and still needing a player.
ReplyDeleteThe abuse being directed at FSG is so hypocritical. The same fans that were probably giving out about wasting money on Carroll, which we are still paying for wasting. I would far rather wait until Christmas and get a player then for a better price than try desperately to sign someone now!
Why is it wrong to call players mercenaries? It's like their untouchable. Comparing football players to everyday people is a very bad example. Everyday people work in crap jobs, on low wages and work all sorts of hours to put the bread and butter on the table on the other hand footballers earn millions of pounds a week, doing a job they love and live a quality life so don't give me that shit. Football is my hobby and i would love to be doing it as a job! I don't blame them for getting the best deal for themselves but look at Scott Sinclair, he now has to prove himself once again because he choose to burn holes in his pocket rather than push on and try to make a name for himself. Willian was on a good wage and i don't think we offered much less so he has made a choice to take more money over playing time especially if he goes Chelsea because i can guarantee you he would have had more playing time for us then them and even Spurs. I want players here who want to be here and have quality. There are some quality young players who would be belting signing for us like Adam Ljajic. Apparently Sakho wants to sign for us... Go and get him, he is a good player who will only get better and more importantly he wants to come. Forget the top players in the world and get the next best thing... The ones who are showing the potential to be the next best player in the world.
ReplyDeletesome agents Jamie dictate everything and there clients are happy to follow as long as the money comes in
ReplyDeleteplayers sign agents to make them money as long as the agent is cutting deals and making money id say 90 to 97% of players are happy ....dont let them kid you
ReplyDeleteWe you haven't been reading the reports today I see that FSG in fact were not honest with fans about signings.
ReplyDeleteAnd you haven't read B Rodgers comment about the truth behind us not signing players like willian .
I WAS RIGHT BRO
Agreed... and further more, they've shown a willingness to pay for players... just up to their valuation of the players.
ReplyDeleteIt's a chicken or the egg question... we can't afford to pay the players without being in the Champions League, but we have a tough time making the Champions League without paying the players.
And the last time they went out and spent a boatload of cash, we ended up with Downing, Henderson, Adam, and Doni. Their best piece of business that summer was Craig Bellamy on a free!
money talks Jamie.....people are greedy thats why people are committing atrocities the world over for oil, land, diamonds gold you name it.....
ReplyDeletethere all mercenary to a degree the human race is mercenary...is anyone really that surprised that they follow the money........unless mother Theresa kits up get used to it
ReplyDeleteYou do realize Russia has no tax on their wages right?
ReplyDeleteIt's not about pleasing the fans, it's about spending money to bring in players which mean we challenge for the title.
ReplyDeleteRight now their net spend is about -5m, are you telling me that our transfer budget for summer 2013 is less than 27m? If that is the case where does all that brand spanking new TV money go to? Don't get me started on the wage bill
In most cases that is right however you do have those few players who are owned by 3rd parties.
ReplyDeleteTevez and Mascherano going to West Ham is an example of players having no say.
Tevez and Mascherano going to West Ham
ReplyDeleteYeah, because North London is such a beautiful part of the country :-)
ReplyDeleteI think we can survive over paying on a few players, i'm not talking about AC over spend, but 5m is surely within our means. If the player is good enough to take us to the next level at 30m then 32m he is still that good?
ReplyDeleteKieren, I am not happy with our transfer activity at all. I had hoped that we get in some quality signings, but what I don't want is the club to overspend on any player again. I don't care one minute whether a player costs three or 30 million, as long as he does the business and improves our team significantly. Reading hundreds of comments on various Liverpool sites it becomes increasingly clear to me that many want big money to be spent on an alleged big name. It might not be about pleasing the fans in your opinion, but the general impression I get is that a big money signing would appease quite a few people.
ReplyDeleteBuddy all i am saying is that if you identify a player that will take us to the next level then for the sake of 2-5m (depending on reports) we should not back away. If BR says he has found a top player and we get him for 5m i will be very happy. But the truth is, if you want quality then you need to pay. If you don't want to pay then don't expect to do well.
ReplyDeleteWhat my problem is that the ambition of FSG has come quite clear, it's lower than ours. We want titles and they want to reduce the wage bill and have a neutral net spend. I think BR looked so down because he is now starting to realise that.
FSG has made promises that they can not keep
Well, that depends on whether one thinks that Willian is worth 30m in the first place. I don't, but unlike some alleged experts all across the internet he is, like every expensive player we get linked to, the knees bees. These people seem to do nothing but watch football matches all day. I don't.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing is whether one believes that we bid 30m. I don't. From the reports I read, Spurs outbid us offering £30m compared to us offering €27m. Are the reports I read true? I don't know. These fees are usually undisclosed. If our scouting department and transfer committee decided that the player is worth €27 tops, why offer more than that? Just for the sake of overspending? Just to have 5m more debt? No, big no. We shouldn't start things like that, because it wouldn't end there. The next player we'd overspend would follow.
You write "if the player is good enough to take us to the next level". Is he? Someone at the club sees to think that anything more than what we were offering would be too much of a risk. I rather like this "prudent" approach. How many players coming from the Russian league have done well in England? I know a few who haven't, Jo springs to mind.
You have good points and argue them well, the truth is we don't know how much was bid and what spurs and Chelsea bid. But it is clear to me that BR still thinks he is worth it but the way he acted during the press conference yesterday. To me this looks like a decision based on finances rather than if the player would be good for the team or not.
ReplyDeleteI would rather spend more to get the players we want that will improve us, i have no idea if Willian would work out or not, i have only seen him a handful of times play, but BR is under the impression that he is worth it. That is good enough for me
I wouldn't even mind the wages so much, if I didn't have to continually hear everybody involved with football moaning about how unfortunate and overworked these players at the top level are...
ReplyDeleteNo, the truth might not be as clear cut as you portray it here, because truth is also that you need to do your homework (scouting) to get quality. Coutinho -> homework done, Carroll -> homework not done. Coutinho cost a fraction of Carroll's transfer fee.
ReplyDeleteMy personal ambition is that the club is run sustainable. It would break my heart if we were to file for bankruptcy because we paid higher transfer fees and wages than we could.
I wouldn't be too sure about your claim that FSG want to "have a neutral net spend". We have it right now, but how would I know that this is exactly what they want. Why would they still allow us to offer big money for any player?
BR is possibly looking down, because he realises that the club won't spend whatever it takes to get a certain player, but only what they think is right.
May I reiterate that I, too, am not happy with our transfer activity this window.
Yes, it seems obvious that this one was based on the transfer fee limitations set. Messi would be good for the team. Should we go and offer 500m for him? A bit of an extreme example, but I am sure you get what I try to bring across.
ReplyDeleteWe have signed plenty of players in the past where a single person though he would be worth this and that, and failed miserably. Diouf, Aquilani, Carroll, probably even Allen, Borini, to name a few signed during different managerial reigns. Therefore, I like the idea of a transfer committee deciding as a group instead of letting a single person call the shots. What I don't like though is the in-transparency of said committee. Does anybody know who is in it and with what powers?
Rodgers obviously wants to strengthen our starting eleven and rightly so. I understand him growing frustrated as I share this frustration, but we should not strengthen at all cost. If the risk of a player not making it compared to the money paid is wrong then don't do it.
Calling somebody a mercenary would imply that money is the sole determining factor in player's decision making, and aside from a small minority of transfers, it is not fair to make that assertion from the outside looking in.
ReplyDeleteFans like to just simplify it down to an argument of "he rejected my club, so he's a mercenary" when in fact the globalisation of the game has just seen players become increasingly more 'professional' in their approach, rather than playing for the love of their club.
Yeah he's not woth more than 30mil. Silly money, but when you have 95mil comin in i suppose you can afford to pay over the odds.
ReplyDeleteThink he would have been a good fit for the team, but you win some and lose some. Like you said definately encoraging they are willing to spend that kind of cash, but also encouraging to see we wont be taken to the cleaners again.
You have a point for sure, but I still don't think that any professional in any profession should be paid 200k a week whilst others have to receive government benefits to survive despite working 40+ hours a week.
ReplyDeleteIn hindsight, its a good thing LFC did not try to better the Spurs' offer. Very sensible approach. Eventually we will still lose him to Chelsea. Serves Spurs right. They have been hijacking LFC's targets and now they got a taste of their own medicine. And now they get infuriated when Chelsea hijacked Willian at the last moment.
ReplyDeleteYea totally - I'm just like at least have the good grace to acknowledge how fortunate you are. Instead football likes to patronise the fans that fork out so much hard earned money to watch them do what many of us still pay money to do for fun!
ReplyDeleteAnd the handout thing is what makes the Madrid situation more disgusting to me - at least Chelsea, City and the like are taking money from individuals choosing to buy into the clubs (how those individuals earned their money is another story...).
Real on the other hand just take from 'the people', even in a country and league that is struggling, and want to lavish £100m on a vanity purchase to play in their 2 horse race. I'd be upset even if I was a Madrid fan myself!
we may have crap jobs in comparison to footballers, but in comparison to somebody homeless with no career prospects, or even worse somebody struggling in poverty in 'the 3rd world', we are living that comparitive life of riley - everything is relative
ReplyDeleteA few years back the Spanish government had to pay some of Real's debt to keep them afloat, too. This can't be it, really. I've never heard that they paid that money back. RM are clearly pretty close to the top on the list of clubs I don't like. Can't wait to see the wheels coming of their vehicle.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely true. Still I am very unhappy not to have a proper job despite spending a lot of time and money to get a degree. Ask any of my mates, most of whom support one or another football club passionately, and they would tell you who should earn 100k a week :-)
ReplyDeleteYea totally - I'm just like at least have the good grace to acknowledge how fortunate you are, and keep the grumblings to themselves. Instead football likes to patronise the fans that fork out so much hard earned money to watch them do what many of us still pay money to do for fun, and act like the whole thing is such a chore!
ReplyDeleteAnd the handout thing is what makes the Real situation more disgusting to me - at least Chelsea, City and the like are taking handouts from individuals choosing to buy into the clubs (how those individuals earned their money is another story...).
Real on the other hand just take from 'the people', even in a country and league that is struggling, and now want to lavish £100m on yet another vanity purchase to play in their 2 horse race. I'd be pretty upset even if I was a Madrid fan myself tbh!
I am convinced that I have replied to this comment a few minutes ago. Did you receive my reply?
ReplyDeleteJK i think you are missing your own point here. That's his profession, the man plays football and gets paid for it. Just like anybody who works and get's paid for it. And we all want raises too. We are the ones who put them on a pedestal and get our feelings hurt afterwards. The argument you should be making is "if FSG wants BR and LFC to make it to top 4 what are they willing to do about it?" FSG did what it took for Red Sox to break their so called hoodoo. So why can't they do they same for LFC?!
ReplyDeleteMoney isn't the only consideration, location, prestige, taxes, playing time, possiblity of winning, champions league ect. play a part, but money is a big part.
ReplyDeleteThing is, on surface Liverpool can't or won't compete on wages with the likes of City, Chelsea, MU, Barca, PSG, Real, etc. And the difference isn't just marginal, it's huge. Look at Suarez, reportedly on 80K a week, up to 120K if he scores 20+, he could earn double elsewhere.
And the incentive based pay for reaching targets is logical and fair, however it's not competetitive with bigger teams who will guarantee a wage that is even higher than the pay after incentives. Even if after incentives, pay was higher, it's still a risk, what if you are not provided with proper service in order to score the goals you need to make the extra money? What if you are undermined by not being able to take pens? This risk definitely plays into the thinking of potential targets.
Incentives like these work well in Baseball results are based on a collection of individual efforts, offering a player incentives for x amount of hits or homeruns makes sense, and overall should impact the team positively. In football however, offering these incentives might actually have a detrimental effect - in the players might take chances they shouldnt in order to achieve their personal goal (x amount of goals), rather than achieving the teams goal of winning. Better would be to make the milestones based on totals of goals + assists.
Also if they are going to offer lower wages than other teams, reaching the milestones should offer a wage higher than what the competition would offer. win win.
Not that I think it's right, but the reality is that if Hazzard is making 200k a week, and Suarez is making max 120k a week, something is distorted, and players of this calibre would rather move to where the guaranteed money is.
If Liverpool want the big signings, then they're going to have to play ball - right now they're playing a different game, at a different level, and hope for gradual improvement, rather than immediate impact.
Govt didn't pay the debt I think. They helped them in another way. Instead they (or authorities) re-zoned Real's old training ground, thus inflated its value. When the training ground was sold, Real were able to pay off a lot of debt. Although the govt took a share of the sale proceeds. Though I'm not sure if any sizable chunk of that debt was owed to the government.
ReplyDeleteDespite that re-zoning help, Real still continue to amass debt. They use the TV money as collateral as well as maybe Perez's company. Be interesting to see the banks' view when the TV rights are changed in La Liga. Needs to changed and needed to ages ago, the TV rights.
Just made a long post - went to moderation automatically, then disappeared. Nothing bad in there. Glitch?
ReplyDeleteGlad we did not get Willian, we deserve better. His sats are not that fantastic, he has a few tricks but this is not tested in PL. i say we should put a serious bid in for Chelsea's Mata. He has all the right credentials and experience in winning things.
ReplyDeleteAh well, you are a lot better informed than me then. Don't know why I've kept in mind that the government actually gave them money.
ReplyDeleteIf they still amass debt, they should be expelled from the CL, as that clearly is against FFP. How they, Real, can still offer allegedly close to 100m for a single player is probably not only beyond me.
This definitely explains the re-zoning better:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudad_Deportiva,_Madrid
I didn't realise this recent-ish development until searching for explanation of the re-zoning but i came across this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/exclusive-real-madrid-under-investigation-amid-allegations-of-illegal-state-aid-8557550.html
Real are under investigation by the European Commission for illegal state aid (tax breaks and land deals), which is maybe what you are referring to (or outstanding tax that Spanish clubs owe to the Spanish tax man???)
A more recent update:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/exclusive-real-madrid-and-barcelona-face-removal-of-privileges-8749147.html
Potentially big changes coming, beyond just TV rights. I didn't realize this. They could become PLCs.
They (Barca and Real) apparently get tax breaks that most other Spanish sides do not get.
Interesting times over there.
Another article on it, that explains some of the tax benefits they (the four clubs) get:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/how-tax-break-gives-real-madrid-and-barcelona-an-unfair-edge-8749146.html
and that my brother is what is wrong with the world today. Makes me very sad to be part of it. I never said i was surprised and I'am used to it but doesn't change the fact they are mercenaries.
ReplyDeletei wasn't aiming my reply at you daz more at the world in general
ReplyDeletei know mate i would love to wake the world up from the mess we are creating but that's a dream i probably will never achieve. I've spent too much of my life worrying time to start enjoying :-) peace
ReplyDeletei wont even give you an answer to that because i will only look like a fool. There's more people in them brackets than you probably actually think some are just disguised better.
ReplyDeleteI have Spurs supporting work colleagues and they inform me that the owner of Spurs, Joe Lewis (£3 billion net worth) is dipping into his wealth in a similar, if not quite to the same extent as Abramovich is with Chelsea. I don't think that Ady will be too much of an issue.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, the money may have been a factor but do consider that at this point in time, Tottenham have a better squad than Liverpool and are more likely to qualify for the Champions league than Liverpool. Also consider that Chelsea actually are in the champions league. In my opinion, if a footballer was to prioritize clubs for pure footballing reasons, it would be 1. Chelsea 2. Tottenham 3. Liverpool because of their current standing in EPL (thats the way it has been since 2009).
ReplyDeleteAlso consider the management, on one side you have Jose Mourinho (enough said) and Villas Boas (has a better profile than Rodgers for sure) and on the other side you Brendan Rodgers (a good manager but his profile is not as good as AVB's or Mourinho).
Why would a top class player go to Russia instead of Europe? Because like Man City, PSG, Monaco and Chelsea, Anzhi had started a project and were attracting top players like Samuel Eto'o and hired a top manager, Guus Hiddink.
You are claiming that the reason he chose Chelsea over Tottenham is due to money. Did you know at the time of writing this article what salary package the two clubs offered him? At 25 he is approaching the peak of his playing years and logically would want to play in the Champions League.
I feel you are being unfair calling him a "Money-Grabbing Mercenary".
I am happy though at the sensibility of FSG's financial dealings now. Liverpool should not pay over the odds for any player (that 35m spent of Andy Carrol still pinches me :( )