GUEST POST: Liverpool's £9m purchase of Simon Mignolet will inevitably raise serious questions about Pepe Reina's future at Anfield, but for site regular EK, fans shoud be asking different questions about the Mignolet deal, specifically: Why have Liverpool signed Belgium's number two when the club had a partnership with Racing Genk? (the team from whom Chelsea bought Thibaut Courtois), and, more broadly, what are the Reds actually getting out of the various partnerships with other clubs?
Don't get me wrong, I think Mignolet is a good goalkeeper and definitely not a step down from Pepe; however, Chelsea bought Courtois from Genk for the same money LFC spent on Mignolet. Who got the better deal?
Courtois is more than just a 'good' keeper - he is a sensational stopper who many believe is already the best in the world (former City goalkeeper Ronald Waterreus for one), and I'm pretty sure many others will share that view once the Belgian inevitably becomes Chelsea's first-choice goalkeeper.
Despite this much-vaunted partnership with Genk, Liverpool still missed out on Courtois, Christian Benteke and Kevin de Bruyne. Indeed, whilst the Reds splashed out £11m on Borini, Villa paid £7 million for Benteke, who is now worth £20m, and is a major target for several top clubs, including (ironically) Liverpool.
Some research shows that Liverpool saw the Genk partnership as a way to allow potential non-EU targets to qualify for a work permit, which made sense given problems in the past with Sebastien Leto and Mark Gonzalez. In all seriousness, though, what is the point of these partnerships if Liverpool repeatedly miss out bargain-priced stars of the future?
The Genk deal is often compared to Manchester United's partnership with Antwerp, but the difference is Manyoo actually sent some players there and even managed to get some of them back playing first team football. So far, a solitary one-season loan for Chris Mavinga is the only real benefit Liverpool have received under the Genk deal.
Liverpool have many similar partnerships, including ten in Europe alone, four of which are with Irish clubs, with three more in Scandinavia. Now I love the Emerald Isle, but how much talent can there be? With 32-year Robbie Keane (arguably) still the best striker in the land, there's can't be many promising players (with the ability to make it at the top level) coming through (!)
MTK Budapest is one of the club's well-known partnerships. I have a soft spot for players from the Balkans/Eastern Europe (I called for Henrikh Mkhitaryan after only one month of last season) and upon hearing of the deal, I thought it would open a lot of doors:
* LFC could use MTK as a base from which to scout all of Eastern Europe.
* Move players to MTK at a young age, develop them and then maybe move them on to the reserves (and ultimately the first team squad).
In reality, it's another partnership that is ultimately pointless for LFC. The club gets one or two of their youth players every year, and after a while, they move elsewhere. Again, no end product for Liverpool Football Club.
You don't have to be a master economist to understand that when you invest money, you need to have a positive return on investment, and signing Players like Benteke, De Bruyne and Courtois would've saved LFC a bundle of money:
* Courtois, De Bruyne and Benteke: Combined cost = £23m
* Mignolet, Downing and Carroll: Combined cost = £64
Liverpool clearly don't know how to positively utilise these (potentially) fruitful partnerships, and given the lack of discernible benefit so far, why these deals remain in place is anyone's guess.
EK
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Don't get me wrong, I think Mignolet is a good goalkeeper and definitely not a step down from Pepe; however, Chelsea bought Courtois from Genk for the same money LFC spent on Mignolet. Who got the better deal?
Courtois is more than just a 'good' keeper - he is a sensational stopper who many believe is already the best in the world (former City goalkeeper Ronald Waterreus for one), and I'm pretty sure many others will share that view once the Belgian inevitably becomes Chelsea's first-choice goalkeeper.
Despite this much-vaunted partnership with Genk, Liverpool still missed out on Courtois, Christian Benteke and Kevin de Bruyne. Indeed, whilst the Reds splashed out £11m on Borini, Villa paid £7 million for Benteke, who is now worth £20m, and is a major target for several top clubs, including (ironically) Liverpool.
Some research shows that Liverpool saw the Genk partnership as a way to allow potential non-EU targets to qualify for a work permit, which made sense given problems in the past with Sebastien Leto and Mark Gonzalez. In all seriousness, though, what is the point of these partnerships if Liverpool repeatedly miss out bargain-priced stars of the future?
The Genk deal is often compared to Manchester United's partnership with Antwerp, but the difference is Manyoo actually sent some players there and even managed to get some of them back playing first team football. So far, a solitary one-season loan for Chris Mavinga is the only real benefit Liverpool have received under the Genk deal.
Liverpool have many similar partnerships, including ten in Europe alone, four of which are with Irish clubs, with three more in Scandinavia. Now I love the Emerald Isle, but how much talent can there be? With 32-year Robbie Keane (arguably) still the best striker in the land, there's can't be many promising players (with the ability to make it at the top level) coming through (!)
MTK Budapest is one of the club's well-known partnerships. I have a soft spot for players from the Balkans/Eastern Europe (I called for Henrikh Mkhitaryan after only one month of last season) and upon hearing of the deal, I thought it would open a lot of doors:
* LFC could use MTK as a base from which to scout all of Eastern Europe.
* Move players to MTK at a young age, develop them and then maybe move them on to the reserves (and ultimately the first team squad).
In reality, it's another partnership that is ultimately pointless for LFC. The club gets one or two of their youth players every year, and after a while, they move elsewhere. Again, no end product for Liverpool Football Club.
You don't have to be a master economist to understand that when you invest money, you need to have a positive return on investment, and signing Players like Benteke, De Bruyne and Courtois would've saved LFC a bundle of money:
* Courtois, De Bruyne and Benteke: Combined cost = £23m
* Mignolet, Downing and Carroll: Combined cost = £64
Liverpool clearly don't know how to positively utilise these (potentially) fruitful partnerships, and given the lack of discernible benefit so far, why these deals remain in place is anyone's guess.
EK
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
It's time to admit Liverpool just aren't the club they once were
ReplyDeleteGood point this article raises, although I would suggest we wait and see what happens with the new recruitment team in place. The previous regimes have been fairly sluggish and tended to do a lot of panic buying. I'm pretty confident that had the current ream been in place they wouldn't have sanctioned the Borini, Assaidi and Allen deals (Speculative I know, but my opinion). I think that based on the speed, and to some extent 'quality' of our signings since the new team has been in place, I would guess that these partnerships ill bear better fruit in the future as these guys seem to have a good idea of what they are doing.
ReplyDeleteDowning 20 million, Carroll 35 million and mignolet 9 million! That's 64 million not 59!!!! Well done!!!
ReplyDeleteSome people are good at maths, others...... are good at sniping, some are good at both.
ReplyDeleteThat was my mistake, not EK's. Fixed now.
ReplyDeleteI focus in the maths bcoz its basic! Y shud i pay attention to the complexities of footballing partnerships wen he cant produce the correct figures any Liverpool fan in the world shud know!!! How can u expect ppl to take ur word on anyfin wen u get the basics wrong!!!
ReplyDeletewho turned your computer on for you?
ReplyDeleteYou've actually made a good point here.
ReplyDeleteits all well and good getting players such as benteke ets for a good price and selling them on for a profit, but you can only do that if they make it in the premier league, many don't make it so are sold on, so your point about missing out on the likes of benteke is irrelevant
ReplyDeleteSpot on lad
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree, how many people knew benteke , i would not have gone for him his record was like jovanavic and mbokani , didnt look like h had potential like lukaku , hei a hyypia type signing.
ReplyDeleteCoutois ws bought by chelsea 2 years ago ago , and reina seemed like he would be there forever and was one of the best keepers.
De bruyne , i dont see how he is better thn suso.
more interestingly I just found these LFC photos..2 new signings? http://www.flickr.com/photos/98164173@N06/
ReplyDeletewhen my guest post gets aired the shite will really hit the fan lol;-) ps good post m8 every ones entitled to their opinion do not let the buggers grind you down
ReplyDeletegood points, good article!
ReplyDeleteI agree, I think the partnership with Genk is a microcosm of how useless LFC have been in the transfer market. With every manager since Houllier it's been a major mission to get rid of deadwood then we change then more dross!
ReplyDeleteLol. Its been that way for ages.
ReplyDeleteMignolet, Coutinho, Sturridge = £28 million. Not bad
ReplyDeleteThere are no end of examples of Benteke priced players who have flopped.
Comolli deals were quite crazy overall
100% agree. Totally pointless, if you don't get the best players, from these teams.
ReplyDeleteThe same could be said for one's spelling and grammar...
ReplyDeleteThat's something I didn't even know about!! Nice one.
ReplyDelete1st of all: Our new stadium that has been in the pipeline for 10 years is the biggest issue, and one we should be discussing. That needs to be sorted first and foremost...
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, although I understand the passion and frustration coming from the author of this article, I beg to differ.
Whoever wrote this is assuming that Liverpool automatically had first right to buy on Courtois, De Bruyne and Benteke. Then he/she is assuming those 3 players wanted to come to Liverpool over the likes of Chelsea. Then the author is assuming WE wanted THEM and that we were willing to pay the prices Chelsea/Villa paid. Also, L'pool may not have valued these players as highly. So if that is the case then the problem lies with out scouting department and with the people who negotiate the fees and the financial packages. (This has been the case for the last decade, generally speaking, minus Alonso, Garcia, Torres etc. There would be an argument that those signings were a result of Rafa and Pako being at the club).
Do we know what kind of partnership we ACTUALLY have with Genk?
I suggest we all stop criticising our club until we know all the facts and the ins-n-outs. It also causes fans to become angry, sad and on edge.
Remember, everyone at the club only wants the best for the club. If these partnerships were useless, we would not have them. These partnerships may also take time to produce some results. Whatever the results may be.
apparently lfc have agreed a €30 million fee for HM, good bit of business?
ReplyDeleteCarroll and Downing were signed two years ago.by Comolli who also made the signing of Henderson. Both Downing and Henderson have improved but we overpayed horribly for them.
ReplyDeleteThose days are over for now.
Couthino, Sturridge and Mignolet would be a better comparrison. Combined they only cost the club 31 million and have been signed by our new scouting system which looks to be doing a pretty damn good job.
The writer has used players from Chelsea and Villa to make a comparison. Why not 3 players from the same club. Why did Chelsea not sign Benteke?
Every club makes bad signings. Fernando Torres cost Chelsea 50 million and has been a astronomical waste of money so the writers mentioning partnerships does not really have legs as Chelsea have wasted loads of money on players who have failed to live up to their transfer fees.
Very good post EK, and a very interesting point. I have to say I feel a little shamed in the fact I wasn`t that aware of all these partnerships, which does highlight your point well. For me to not be that aware (of some of them) considering I follow almost everything to do with LFC, shows just how much we haven`t used them to our advantage.
ReplyDeleteRight now there just like "town twinning", completely pointless deals which are just done for the nice sound, yet like you said they could be used to become so much more.
I do get that dispite any link not all players will want to move to us, Courtois may not have wanted to come here no matter how strong the link was, but I`m sure a few others would have picked us over say Villa (no disrespect mean`t to Villa).
I think you would have to be careful in how far you take the partnership, purely as you wouldn`t want to help scout players for a different team, as them players could still then go and join city, utd etc when they become good. However you could use it better in terms of loan deals of our younger players (for first team games for them) in return for a better heads up on talent at there clubs which they might be willing to cash in on. They could in exchange for getting lots of promising young players on loan from us, loan us theres with a buy-out price at the end if said player does well. Everyone wins, they get much need cash, and good players on loan from us, and we get first shout at players who would be leaving them anyway as they would be to big for there current club.
Carroll and Downing were signed two years ago.by Comolli who also made the signing of Henderson. Both Downing and Henderson have improved but we overpaid horribly for them.
ReplyDeleteThose days are over for now.
Couthino, Sturridge and Mignolet would be a better comparison. Combined they only cost the club 31 million and have been signed
by our new scouting system which looks to be doing a pretty damn good job.
The writer has used players from Chelsea and Villa to make a comparison. Why not 3 players from the same club. Why did Chelsea not
sign Benteke?
Every club makes bad signings. Fernando Torres cost Chelsea 50 million and has been a major waste of money so the writer mentioning
partnerships in that respect is irrelevant. Chelsea have wasted loads of money on players who have failed to live up to their transfer fees.
Down to the climate change?
ReplyDeleteI have posted two comments now that have gone for moderation.
ReplyDeleteFor what reason have my post not been aired?
Just for the record, both posts were the same with a few changes in the second one and none of the posts contains any harmful content.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, what is up with your 'moderation' system Jaimie?
Basically my post was about Torres going to Chelsea for 50 million which would make the 'partnership' and 'return on investment' comments from the writer irrelevant.
ReplyDeleteCarroll and Downing were signed two years ago.by Comolli and Dalglish who also made the signing of Henderson. Both Downing and Henderson have improved but we overpayed for them. Most will agree with that.
ReplyDeleteCouthino, Sturridge and Mignolet would be a better comparison. Combined they only cost the club 31 million and have been signed by our new scouting system which looks to be doing a pretty damn good job.
The writer has used players from Chelsea and Villa to make a comparison. Why not 3 players from the same club. Chelsea did not sign Benteke did they?
Every club makes bad signings. Fernando Torres cost Chelsea 50 million and has given them no return on investment whatsoever so the writer mentioning 'partnerships' and 'return on investments' makes it irrelevant. Chelsea have wasted loads of money on players who have not lived up to their transfer fees and many other clubs have too.
Carroll and Downing were signed two years ago.and also Henderson. Both Downing and Henderson have improved but we overpayed for them. Most will agree with that.
ReplyDeleteCouthino, Sturridge and Mignolet would be a better comparison. Combined they only cost the club 31 million and have been signed by our new scouting system which looks to be doing a pretty good job.
The writer has used players from Chelsea and Villa to make a comparison. Why not 3 players from the same club. Chelsea did not sign Benteke did they?
Every club makes bad signings. Fernando Torres cost Chelsea 50 million and has given them no return on investment so the writer mentioning 'partnerships' and 'return on investments' makes it irrelevant. Chelsea have spent money on many players who have not lived up to their transfer fees and many other clubs have too.
So this post was my 4th attempt and finally it did not go for moderation.
ReplyDeleteJamie, what made my post above any different to the other 3 that went for moderation?
I've been aware of these types of partnerships because of the game Football Manager...and then after I discovered them I did some further research just out of interest.
ReplyDeleteGenerally, deals with small European clubs are to avoid work permit issues, I don't know too much about work permit rules or anything, but it obviously makes sense to make this sort of partnership, most clubs in the league would, maybe all?
Links with Asian or American clubs are created for marketing purposes. Think of our American tour last season and some of the Asian tours in the past. Manchester United dominates the Asian markets with support and shirt sales, it's a worthy market to enter from a business perspective.
Then you can have links with South American or some other European clubs to pick up a few players or gems. But I stress that it's not like these upcoming and promising players from partnered clubs are entitled to join us. An agreed deal might be that if another club makes a bid for a player, we can match that exact bid and try to sign the player.
Also these deals aren't to help other clubs scout players, it's the opposite, it's to increase our worldwide knowledge of players.
So that's a general view of these types of partnerships from my understanding. However the article mentions 4 links with Irish clubs that I had no idea about, and they do seem quite pointless and a waste of resources.
This website has admitted that ever since that notion became real.
ReplyDeleteI'm just trying to work out which poster on here is EK!
ReplyDeleteYou fail to mention one thing - the scouts for Liverpool, may not have rated any of the players. Or the manager may have thought, we don't need that player, etc etc. Mark my words, scouts work with spread sheets and stats and know all the best young players on the planet. It's been like that since the mid 90s.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the new keeper, to say he is not a good choice is a little silly. How about Reina when he was sold by Barca? People probably thought he was not that good.
The get a keeper from a prem league team as a #2 for a mid table team like Liverpool is amazing.
Interesting article. The deal w have with the Hungarian team MTK I've known about since Rafa's reign as it was published in LFC website. Ur article raises more questions however. U mentioned man u partnership w Antwerp prompt me to wonder does any of the top flight English teams (or even in Europe) have similar deals? and if they have, how successful have they been utilising such partnerships? Also do we know for a fact we still have partnership deals w the clubs mentioned in this article???
ReplyDeleteMy wildest guess is Original Chan since he/she have a lot of knowledge in regards to such topics...I could be wrong tho
ReplyDeleteThe EK hyperlink at the bottom of the article is linked to JK's Google+ page...hmmm ;)
ReplyDeleteGreat article, I think it shows where some of the flaws in the current system are.
ReplyDeleteBut at the end of the day its one think to have a partnership with a club and its another to recognize the talents availible.
My mistake. Forgot to change the link (!)
ReplyDeleteMust have been something that triggered the word filter. Sorry about that, but even I fall foul of the filter sometimes.
ReplyDeleteI'll leave the author to ID himself if he wants to ;-)
ReplyDeleteIf any of you guys want to post your view on something, write an article and send it across.
I know some fans would have booed our transfer ppolicy if we bought unknown players like Benteke. Liverpool is a big club and cannot get away with any single transfer failure. Aston Villa can and Chelsea has no limit on transfer money. They can buy entire Belgium league.
ReplyDeleteMignolet was bought as first choice keeper.
ReplyDeletei am going to write one ,i will have to get jaimie to proof read it for me,so as not to upset the grammar experts lol
ReplyDeleteIt's the way it is, Jase. Your point could be the most valid ever written but, if it's written with spelling mistakes, bad punctuation and improper grammar, nobody will take it seriously.
ReplyDeleteoh, what a nice robot you have ;)
ReplyDeletetotally agree ,and here was i thinking this was a football site,forgot it was a english education site
ReplyDeleteit may be some time ,it was 350 words but after censorship it got cut down to ten words ,lol;-)
ReplyDeleteSomething that I was totally unaware of and thanks for educating me regarding this topic. Yeah from your article it seems to be a loss but then we never know if we might get somebody in the future that's even better than these guys. Lets just show some more patience, eh?
ReplyDeleteI think adding Downing and Carroll is wrong, they were deals that were over-inflated and deals Rodgers would never have made. Better deals to compare would be Mignolet for a reported 12m, Sturridge for 12m and Coutinho for 8m, which is a combined 32m, still more than the combined fees of the Genk players, but much better value for money.
ReplyDeleteInstead of focusing on the fact that many if not all of the deals have been set up with a different manager in charge as well as different owners in charge, Genk and MTK Budapest are prime examples, both partnerships were set up while Rafa was in charge and it's possible that while Rafa would have utilised this, the following managers thought they were daft deals, and because of this chose not to take advantage of them.
ReplyDeleteOops, you put me,so, you need to put a space between the "," and the "s". Slap on the wrist for you.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair, and I'm not saying all you have done it, but when you go onto a site and read the comments and you get people typing in text speak, that does my head in. If people can't take the time to type out "the" instead of "d", then I'm not going to take them seriously. Another thing that does my head in is people who don't spell the player's names correctly, especially when they are Liverpool players. I once read a comment where the poster spelt Skrtel's name at least five different spellings, being a Liverpool fan and not knowing the spelling of a player for the club, especially when it's so easy to get the correct spelling, it's pure laziness. And by the way, I am a university student who writes multiple scientific reports every semester where grammar and spelling is marked heavily down, so I take grammar and spelling quite seriously. I understand that not everyone can spell the word punctuation, but if there was a player for Liverpool with the name Punctuation, I would expect them to spell that properly. Enough of my rant :)
ReplyDeleteIt's also worth noting that the Genk partnership and the MTK partnership were put in place when Rafa was still in charge.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that we don't know about all the behind-closed-doors business is a good thing, it shows that we are getting back to the Liverpool way of doing business.
ReplyDeleteThese three players were not bought by the same club, you are right, but they are worthy of comparison, because the article is about our partnership with Genk and these three players mentioned were signed from Genk. I believe you have missed the point of the article if you are referring to Torres and Chelsea signing Torres from us is irrelevant to the article in question. The article isn't about players not living up to potential or being bought for more than they are worth, it is about a partnership with another club that reaps no rewards. If we had signed one player directly from Genk that went on to have an impact on our squad, even if we sold them on, this would then make the partnership worthwhile. I do however believe that the article is irrelevant in regards to the current regime, when many of them were set up before Rodgers and even before FSG were in charge. There is probably a contract in place, for example for 10 years and to break that contract would make us look bad, would cost us money and possible sanctions, so we have kept them in place until the contract runs out. This makes sense.
ReplyDeleteI believe Mignolet was bought as competition for Reina and if Reina leaves, we would have a ready replacement.
ReplyDeleteAs far as prem teams, then yes, I would imagine there would be similar deals in place, Arsenal, Man City, Tottenham, Chelsea, all these teams would have similar deals in place. Teams from the mainland however would not need these deals, as far as work permits go because they are part of the EU, that is the European Union, they are not subject to the work permit issues that Britain is.
ReplyDeleteThey already do boo our transfer policy by criticising our purchases of Iago Aspas and Luis Alberto and yet they have such short term memories that they forget that our top scorer of all time was bought from Chester, his replacement was bought from Oxford Utd, the players in question being Ian Rush and John Aldridge, we have bought many other players from relative obscurity and more than likely because of this, they didn't feel the pressure on them. Unfortunately people think that if a player doesn't come from a footballing nation, they don't have the talent to become a player for a top club, a prime example of this is Mkhitaryan, comes from Armenia, hardly a top footballing nation, and yet is a world class talent who will potentially develop into a world class player. And by the way, to me, world class talent and world class players are linked, but different, all world class players are world class talents, but not all world class talents are world class players, an example of this is Alessandro Del Piero, a player who was world class for many years and just because he is now at the twilight of his career, does not mean he is any less talented.
ReplyDeleteI did not miss the point the writer made. If we do have a partnership with Genk then I am pretty sure all three of those players would have been offered to us so they either turned us down or we said no thanks at the chance to sign them.
ReplyDeleteBenteke did not sign for Chelsea. Surely Benteke was offered to Chelsea and in return either the player or club said no?
Using Carroll and Dowing in his comparison is skewed. Why not rather compare them with Sturridge and Coutinho?
The reason I mentioned Torres is because the writer used Carroll and Downing as a comparison which proves that not all big money deals pay off.
Mignolet will be our number one. Do you really think he has signed to sit on the bench knowing that the World Cup is around the corner?
ReplyDeleteOk then if "LFC partnership is a gigantic waste of time" as suggested as the headline then how are we compared to other teams in the EPL? I'm not having a go at the author, but like I said, this article provides more questions than answers...answers which I'm sure no one can answer them but by the LFC itself.
ReplyDeleteDead right, it's incredibly annoying, there is a non football website were the moderator will ban you for using text speak and bad grammar!
ReplyDeletelol do you tink i give a f"ck
ReplyDeletechelski have captured De Bruyne, Courtois ( KRC Genk ), and Lukaku ' RSCA Anderlecht ) from under the noses of all those wise men in Liverpool... and Benteke wasn't noticed too..... Chadli will become verry good too... but un-noticed too... but "Big Si" Mignolet is good.. thanks to him STVV reached the play offs in Belgium some years ago...
ReplyDeleteYou can't say that they have been offered to us when you don't know the details of the deal. If the deal was set up to get around work permit issues, then there would be no reason why they would offer their players to us. And why would Benteke be offered to Chelsea? And I agree with using Carroll and Downing is skewed, in fact, I commented on that and said Sturridge and Coutinho would be a better comparison.
ReplyDeleteIf Reina leaves, then yes, he will be our number one, if Reina stays, Reina will be our first choice with Mignolet pushing him. Reina is a world class keeper, Mignolet at the moment is not there yet.
ReplyDeleteExactly, and that's just the way it should be, the "Liverpool way" of doing business is keeping business behind closed doors, something we have lost for the most part in recent years, but something I hope we can get back.
ReplyDeleteIf we had a partnership with Genk and another club made an offer for one of their players then surely Genk would have let us know about it, is that not what a partnership is for?
ReplyDeleteWhile I agree to you about world class theory but not too sure about players coming from small clubs and making it big. How often do you see it nowadays? Do we see it at all? The era you are talking about was pure football and not much about the money. Now its all about money, bigger clubs, better facilities, best local talents. I am sure Liverpool and Everton have best prospects than Chester or Oxford United. Big clubs just buy talents nowadays starting from the age of 6-7. The gap between small and big clubs is increasing day by day. Historically, it wasn't like that all.
ReplyDeleteyou can say these partnerships are useless but all partnerships are different and are used for different things and have different clauses and without knowing what benefits Liverpool have got out of these partnerships there is not really room to comment. The players mentioned in this article that we have supposedly missed out on would only be good signing if they are needed or thought to be needed if we had signed them and they didn't play then they would be said to be a waste of money and if all these Genk players are brilliant why are they not doing well in Champions League and winning titles
ReplyDeleteJust checking how often u say its my mistake , lol mistake is always part and parcel of your life huh ?
ReplyDelete