In November 2012, Liverpool legend John Aldridge all but wrote-off Reds striker Fabio Borini, arguing that he couldn't be relied upon to score goals for the club. Prior to his injury in October, the Italian had managed only one goal in eleven games for the club, which is hardly an inspiring return on a £10m investment. Since returning to the first team, Borini has shown nothing to suggest that he's going to a regular goalscorer for the club, and Mark Lawrenson has joined Aldo in predicting that the 21-year old will not make the grade at Anfield.
In his column for the Liverpool Daily Post today, Lawro argued that Liverpool 'learned a lot' about Borini during the FA Cup defeat to Oldham, adding:
"I’m sorry, but for me he’s not mentally strong enough, and we already suspected he’s not physically strong enough. Borini is the kind of player who in about 12-18 months will be moved on. It’s too much for him, the whole thing"
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo, John Aldridge delivered a similarly damning assessment of Borini. He said:
"We’ve got Fabio Borini to come back from injury but I don’t think we can rely on him for goals in the second half of the season. I hope Borini proves me wrong but it looks like he will need a year or two to settle in.
Ian St. John also believes the 21-year old is not doing enough to justify his place in the team. Prior to Borini's injury, he told LFC TV:
"Borini's got to do more; I haven't seen much of him at all. He should be backing up Suarez and getting into the box. He's not imposing on games, and we need to see more of him".
To be fair to Borini, he can't be expected to just hit top gear straight away; he clearly needs time to get up to speed again, and that's normal for any player coming back from a serious injury. Additionally, before he got injured, Rodgers played Borini out of position in almost every game, which has probably contributed to his underwhelming creative return.
It's a strange one because Rodgers knows that Borini can deliver through the middle. Indeed, during his loan spell at Swansea, Rodgers often played him through the middle, and the striker rewarded him with 6 goals and 3 assists in 12 appearances.
Having said that, it's hard to see what Borini - even when fully fit - adds to the Liverpool team. He doesn't score or assist; he doesn't really create chances; defensively, he's a bit of a lightweight, and against Oldham at the weekend, I don't remember him doing anything of significance throughout the whole game.
Ultimately, the signing of Daniel Sturridge is arguably a vote of no confidence in Borini. Rodgers has wasted no time playing Sturridge centrally; indeed, he's even shunted Suarez onto the wing to accommodate the £12m striker, but he didn't do that for Borini. Why? Clearly, Rodgers doesn't think he's up to the job of playing centrally, which begs the question, why spend £11m (€13m) on him in the first place?
The £26m spent on Borini and Joe Allen is looking more and more questionable as the season wears on...
Jaimie Kanwar
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In his column for the Liverpool Daily Post today, Lawro argued that Liverpool 'learned a lot' about Borini during the FA Cup defeat to Oldham, adding:
"I’m sorry, but for me he’s not mentally strong enough, and we already suspected he’s not physically strong enough. Borini is the kind of player who in about 12-18 months will be moved on. It’s too much for him, the whole thing"
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo, John Aldridge delivered a similarly damning assessment of Borini. He said:
"We’ve got Fabio Borini to come back from injury but I don’t think we can rely on him for goals in the second half of the season. I hope Borini proves me wrong but it looks like he will need a year or two to settle in.
Ian St. John also believes the 21-year old is not doing enough to justify his place in the team. Prior to Borini's injury, he told LFC TV:
"Borini's got to do more; I haven't seen much of him at all. He should be backing up Suarez and getting into the box. He's not imposing on games, and we need to see more of him".
To be fair to Borini, he can't be expected to just hit top gear straight away; he clearly needs time to get up to speed again, and that's normal for any player coming back from a serious injury. Additionally, before he got injured, Rodgers played Borini out of position in almost every game, which has probably contributed to his underwhelming creative return.
It's a strange one because Rodgers knows that Borini can deliver through the middle. Indeed, during his loan spell at Swansea, Rodgers often played him through the middle, and the striker rewarded him with 6 goals and 3 assists in 12 appearances.
Having said that, it's hard to see what Borini - even when fully fit - adds to the Liverpool team. He doesn't score or assist; he doesn't really create chances; defensively, he's a bit of a lightweight, and against Oldham at the weekend, I don't remember him doing anything of significance throughout the whole game.
Ultimately, the signing of Daniel Sturridge is arguably a vote of no confidence in Borini. Rodgers has wasted no time playing Sturridge centrally; indeed, he's even shunted Suarez onto the wing to accommodate the £12m striker, but he didn't do that for Borini. Why? Clearly, Rodgers doesn't think he's up to the job of playing centrally, which begs the question, why spend £11m (€13m) on him in the first place?
The £26m spent on Borini and Joe Allen is looking more and more questionable as the season wears on...
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
He will come good, he career has be stop start, he found it hard, he can't get into the team atm because of Suarez and sturridge..... He needs to get his shooting away though he hands onto the ball to long.
ReplyDeleteI think he needs more time. He had a very good strike rate at Roma. We've seen what happens when a young player is played out of position and then in the right position. Jordan Henderson. Borini could do the same. I'd reserve judgement.
ReplyDeleteAt least people are belatedly coming along to my line of thinking, yet again. Pity that the powers that be always ignore my posts until it's too late.
ReplyDeleteRodgers, I know that you're reading this - pay attention next time. No more lightweight, little guys, unless they are exceptional talents. Pace and power still do matter!!
It is as plain to see as the nose on your face ,you forgot to say that Rodgers is out of his depth at liverpool what did he do at two nil v arsenal
ReplyDeleteNothing 2-1 nothing 2-2 nothing incredible .
I think the Joe Allen criticism has been a bit harsh. He was one of our best performers at the start of the season. His form's dropped badly since Lucas returned to fitness but that no reason to write him off just yet.
ReplyDeleteI can't say I'm much of a believer in Borini though. Even in the European ties where other youngsters have excelled this season he's seemed to struggle. Seeing him at Oldham, rolling around on the floor like he'd been hit with a Tyson right hook after he was hit in the head with the ball was just embarrassing.
Brendan Rodgers is going to do a lot of damage to Liverpool FC between now and his sacking towards the end of the calendar year, I assure you.
ReplyDeleteWhat should he have done when we were 2-0 up against Arsenal? Can you attribute the mental frailty of our squad to the manager? Any kind of blow to the teams confidence and we practically capitulate. It's the players on the pitch who need to stand up and be counted under pressure, but how many of them do?
ReplyDeleteStick to playing squash, you are obviously out of your depth as a football critic. For over an hour we outplayed Arsenal. No, it was not a perfect result, but it wasn't as bad as you intimate ! The lack of a tall defender was again highlighted last night. We struggled to defend corners, but Brendan is hardly going to pull a decent recruit out of the air before midnight.
ReplyDeleteI'm a little split on this one, as he definitely has to show signs of something pro-active sooner, rather than later. At Oldham he was definitely off the pace.
ReplyDeleteBut it's way too early to pass damning judgement on him yet.
I thought he was only 21, not 23; so believe he still has to be given time to settle. With him just back from injury we shouldn't expect too much; that doesn't mean to say we should expect nothing....He has to deliver at some level.
But next season should be the important one for him and that is when I think he would expect it.
He could become a nice player for us. If not, then isn't the plan to be able to recoup the finances? He would be 23 at the end of 2013-14 so would still be worth our money back, surely. If not then the plan is indeed flawed already.
I personally have my hopes that he will come good. As Chuckyred has already pointed out, Henderson is finally starting to show up, and could still go on another level or two. That may still be the fate of Borini.
How can we write off this guy and use his most recent performances against him?
ReplyDeleteHe was just out for three months and is slowly getting back into the swing of things. Granted, before he was injured, he wasn't showing much while playing out of position but how could we possibly be willing to completely write him off so soon.
Also, in the Oldham game, don't forget about the nice play he made for Sterling in the first half. If Sterling scores there like he should have, then the view of Borini's play in that game may be significantly altered. That play combined with the poor offside call on the Suarez goal means there's a good chance we are still in the FA Cup now.
To expect that either he or Joe Allen would walk through the door and immediately score goals and dominate games is completely unrealistic. We didn't sign Messi! We signed Fabio Borini and Joe Allen.
I'm not even saying that they'll be worth it in the end. But jeez, they've not even been here a year yet.
You do realise when joe Allen was playing he was the most person who broke the opponents play up? he was vital when lucas was injured.
ReplyDeleteNo he isn't, alot of players left in the summer and they had experience, all we need to do is buy experience..... We couldn't do that in this window.... We will do that in the summer.
ReplyDeleteDon't agree one bit I'm afraid. I'm not a Brendan lover, but I'm not a hater either. I can see what he is trying to do and he seems to be getting more obvious in showing his passion now.
ReplyDeleteHe has dropped Allen, despite hugely popular belief on this site to the contrary. And now seems to be prepared to do that to whoever.
We need him to show this character of playing form players and not favourites. We are building something and I'm the first to get depressed when things go wrong. But not everything is wrong. We lost 2 points last night and I'm still hurting, (I will until Sunday now) but there was some cool things going on for us.
A few tweeks in the right places, with the correct calibre of players in , and I can see us improving next season.
Absolutely.
ReplyDeleteit was 2-0 for 4 minutes and 2-1 for 3 minutes, what can he do?
ReplyDeleteearly season form counts for nothing as teams are generally bedding players in and are rusty...i dont want to sound harsh but allen and borini are very average and always will be...when you play for liverpool teams raise there game and get stuck into you especially with a price tag ...they cant hack it period ..they look like a couple of kids ..cut our loses and sell them in the summer..we will be lucky to get 5 mill for the pair
ReplyDeleteBit of a god complex?
ReplyDeleteI haven't written off Borini yet. He appears to have a good attitude and his movement is good but he needs to bulk up and he needs the confidence that comes from being match fit.
ReplyDeleteI think now that Sturridge is here, we'll struggle to get the best out of him, but unless we can get £7mil+ I think we'd be better off trying to do just that. With the 3 up front of Suarez/Sturridge/Borini, he might do better. He works hard and could be a Kuyt figure if given the chance.
Saw Momo Sissoko has gone out on loan today- I think that could have been a decent deal for Liverpool. Juve clearly want shut of him too, so if he'd put a decent shift in, we could have brought him in for peanuts. I don't think he would have been key to our team, but I think we could do with a physical alternative in the centre of the field.
That doesn't just sound harsh, it shouts it......
ReplyDelete....hes a striker with no skill...no pace....no tricks...no aerial ability.... not a natural finisher........no physical presence....just what does or will he be able to offer..carroll was slated but at least he was useful defensively.......im sorry borini is a lower league player...maybe rogers is now realizing there can be no room for sentiment when you manage a big team...and he shouldn't have bothered with this kid ......
ReplyDeleteAgreed. As the first or second striker, he struggled.
ReplyDeletePerhaps as the third, with less pressure on him, he'll be able to perform.
Give him a few games to get going here following the injury.
Allen was our best player, he been worked to hard, he played more games than last season at Swansea. He played Olympics,Europe,premierleague,Carling cup. It's obvious it's goner take its toll. Everyone wrote off Henderson last year, look now he scoring goals and working his arse off.
ReplyDeleteid love them to prove me wrong but they wont im sure of that...Allen has been found out quick ..teams know how to put him off his game so hes pointless...as for borini he has no game to even put off...opposing defenders must love seiing his name on the teamsheet because its the easiest 90mins they will have....
ReplyDeleteHow can you say that from like 13 games? It's hard to come back into a team which has settled. it takes time, he 21/22 he got time. We shouldn't slate a player who hasn't really had time to settle into a new team.
ReplyDeleteif a team was playing liverpool who do you think THERE MIDFIELDERS woulD rather face Allen or MoMO .....I REST My CASE...no one would lose much sleep about facing allen
ReplyDeletedont seem to remember us winning many though ...i
ReplyDeletewe didnt sign messi....no we just messed up signing this pair
ReplyDeletewe need to buy good players
ReplyDeleteSo that's down to one player? No.... At that stage we was learning a new style..... Everything takes time....
ReplyDeleteyou cant learn pace or height you either have it or you dont.....
ReplyDeleteIf teams had the same amount of patience as some people on this site, most players would not be on teams longer than six months.
ReplyDeleteits nothing personal i just dont rate him...i didnt want to sign him ...especially for 15m...hes no better than jay spearing ..ps spearing was as good as anyone on the pitch against everton...rogers old pals act with allen and borini has backfired....
ReplyDeleteWe did not hold the 2-0 lead for long enough. Actually, at 2-2 he brought Enrique on and with a bit more research it was not too hard to find out that he actually tried to get Enrique on at 2-1. Although disappointed to only draw after being 2-0 up, I half thought we could lose going by recent history if Arsenal scored so I still see last night as 1 point gained rather than 2 points dropped. However, we must learn to do better and I am sure we will in the future.
ReplyDeleteBrendan Rodgers also already knows about the mentality weakness in our team, a weakness other posters have already alluded to. That is why he brought in Dr Steve Peters, a leading sports psychologist (also worked as a Psychiatrist) in November 2012 - he is credited with having a major impact on the British cycling team (he joined them in 2001) amongst others. A bit more reading on Dr Peters. In fact, British cycling supremo Dave Brailsford has regularly described him as 'the best appointment I have ever made'. I would suggest it may be a possibility that the improved performances of Downing and Henderson recently may have something to do with this man. Dont trust me, google him, find out about him yourself. Read what the likes of Bradley Wiggins, Chris Hoy and Victoria Pendleton have to say about him.
ReplyDeleteDon't know whether we can already write him off. Currently it doesn't look good for Borini, so much is true. He has a lot of work to do if he wants to be a success with us, much more than Allen, imho.
ReplyDeleteLet's wait and see. Henderson didn't even look half the player he is right now a year ago. Players evolve, get better, get used to their surroundings and their team-mates. I'd be very surprised if Borini was with us simply to earn some handsome wages. He surely wants to succeed as a footballer.
ive showed more patience than rogers did with Carroll,Adam and spearing...its a two way street..ps didnt rogers try and off load hendo for Dempsey without seeing what hes like....if you cant take it dont give it Mr rogers
ReplyDeletei thought allen was brought in to show us the new style?
ReplyDeleteLawro needs to support the players and talk about the failure not even a year into Borini's time at LFC. He is my least favorite pundit, it is like he is trying extra hard to show he is objective. He just needs to shut up about Liverpool. When Dalglish was in charge was he as vocal about Dalglish's signings.
ReplyDeleteI understand that you have that point of view, but no offence, it's not mine.
ReplyDeleteAllen is playing cr*p and doesn't deserve to be in the team. If he gets into a bit of form then I'm sure he will return.
Borini has had his issues and is also off it.
But to write them off already is not my ideal. All the signings should be given until the end of next season imo and if it hasn't worked out then we offload them.
The FSG policy is to buy them at an age and price where they don't potentially cost us in the realms of the Carroll issue. (Or so we are led to believe.)
Who knows, the fact they might be wrong for us states, that they might be right.
Time is the key, my optimism will only last until the end of next season. (Actually, thinking about it, it may only last until the end of the summer window!)
Maybe you should give my approach a try. Not only watch the games, but also have a look at the stats. I've often found things there that I didn't notice whilst watching the game (I have to admit that during games I am usually very emotionally and may miss a thing or two, maybe you are different).
ReplyDeletetthe only way borini will score is if peters sends the other team inyo a hypnotic coma and hed still be offside....hes crap end of
ReplyDeleteThat cheered me up! Thanks, young man :-)
ReplyDeleteas much as i want to i just cant see anything in there game....whats worse is i cant see potential ...i look at yesil i see potential ....i watch wisdom i see potential ...i see potential in all Liverpools youngsters i just dont see it in allen and borini and for 26million i should be able to
ReplyDeleteCarroll was here already for 18 months. Adam 1 year. Henderson 1 year. Spearing even longer.
ReplyDeleteBorini and Allen have been here for six months.
i see potential in sturridge and assadi and rogers signed them and i can see the potentail in courtino
ReplyDeleteActually, Borini does have a bit of pace, not electric but he is pretty fast. A decent finisher as well according to those who saw him at Roma. Lack of composure was more likely than lack of finishing. He has only just come back from a serious injury and been out for 2/3 months - we would all look short of a yard if we had been out for that amount of time. Being mentally slow after being out for that time can seem like being short of pace but it is pace in the mind, not the legs.
ReplyDeleteBrendan may make mistakes and this could prove to be one, but I trust his judgement seeing as Brendan has worked with this guy before. I think he knows the player and his attributes and potential better than any of us.
Eh?
ReplyDeletenot under rogers they wasnt
ReplyDeleteI think that is a good point. I think Allen may turn out to be a good player for us. Time will tell. The important thing is that players in form are preferred over those not in form. That is the point about having some strength in depth.
ReplyDeleteGod isn't the only being with a bit of foresight.
ReplyDeleteSorry, although 15M may be a little over priced, I think Allen has a much greater potential than Spearing. It is up to him to make the most of that potential though. It will be interesting to see his reaction to being dropped. The poster above made a good point about tiredness may be part of it.
ReplyDeleteplease just wait,how can you say such things for Borini??
ReplyDeleteyou are the same one who said the same for Lucas and Lucas went on to become a Liverpool favourite,then you criticised Henderson and now Hendo's been playing very very good.i also heard criticism to Sturridge the 1st day we signed him,luckily he scored 3 goals and some mouths have already been shut.when we are talking to 20-21-22-23 year olds,just give them a chance!criticising them from the first time they make a bad performance is very bad.and recently some people are starting to criticise Skrtel too which is bad too.
the position i see us vulnerable is the goalkeeper one.we've sold Doni,we all know that Jones is championship material (he didnt even play for Middlesbrough) and Reina's been a shadow of himself the last 2 years.also i expect Barca to come for Reina at summer and then i can see us buying a new goalkeeper.dont get me wrong,i love Pepe and i respect him as he's offered a lot to us but he's been playing very poorly the last 2 seasons.i would love him to stay but return to his very best.anyway one great goalkeeper i admire is Ter Stegen,he's young and he's been touted one of the best goalkeepers for the future.considering our youth transfer policy,i'd love him at Liverpool.
also i hope that we'll find some solutions for Carroll,Spearing,Wilson,Pacheco (i mean sell them) because our intentions of loaning them seem to be trying to sell them for us much as we can.give Downing a chance till summer,if he performs well keep him,if he returns back to his bad performances sell him.i expect Coutinho to outshine him.
YNWA
its not all about pace and height. Fowler never really had a lot of pace. don't get me wrong, i'm not comparing him with God just stating my point.
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of funny, gilstrap, as I haven't ever seen Coutinho play. I couldn't tell whether he has potential, but I don't draw any conclusions from watching a youtube-clip. I guess you would find youtube-clips that make Allen look like a world-beater. Go and watch them. Would you then see the potential you can't see now?
ReplyDeleteComposure and finishing are tied together - any professional player could consistently hit the target if given time and space to do so.
ReplyDeleteput it like this would you rather have 15m to spend on a defender and spearing or allen
ReplyDeleteI would very much doubt that Spearing will ever be player of the season for any club in the Prem. He won't even come close. Allen though...
ReplyDeleteCant see where you are coming from. Lots of high wage earners have gone, most of whom had no long term benefit for the club (they were only going to decline, even in the short term). Younger players have come in or have gained experience. Players that will only get better (Manager included here). If Brendan Rodgers is doing damage (or is going to) then how come with a young, thin squad have we managed to stay 7 points off 4th place? Around the same as the experienced players last year?
ReplyDeletespot on jay....which players have caused liverpool the most problems ...the big fast guys....
ReplyDeleteI've been patiently waiting for our next league title for over 20 years. Hence I've shown more patience than probably ever manager. Does or should that mean that they can't drop a player after a year, or even right after he joins us? Or should our manager be at least as patient as me and keep every player for 20 years, to prove that he equals my patience.
ReplyDeleteAgreed
ReplyDelete"You ask me if I have a God complex. Let me tell you something. I am God".
ReplyDeleteDr. Peters could do worse than visiting a few Liverpool websites and hand out anti-depressants.
ReplyDeleteI agree mate. It's still early in his LFC career. Look at Lucas for instance, how many people were on his back for the first 2 years or so?
ReplyDeletehe looks fast as his legs are goinig ten to the dozen ...but the reality is hes no walcott......frienships cloud judgements its a fact ....borini will be gone in the summer
ReplyDeleteI doubt BR is reading this to be honest. No offence meant Jamie
ReplyDeleteGood one Martincork. You could baptise him Apophis for those familiar with Stargate SG1..
ReplyDeletebut he could finish ...and could make half a yard to shoot ...plus fowler punched above his weight in the air and was faster than you think
ReplyDeleteDo you honestly think Spearing and Adam would have made it at Liverpool? Adam was a liability - apart from those "Hollywood" balls, he was risked costing us a few pens a year with his tackling in out own box. Clumsy doesn't even begin to describe it - and he never learned - kept doing it.
ReplyDeleteAs for Carroll, perhaps he didn't fit into the style. Rodgers and his staff have seen more of Carroll, Spearing, Adam, Allen, Borini and know a lot more about footballers and their development, their personalities etc than we ever will.
i am like god........cape fear
ReplyDeletei couldnt find any clips of allen showing potential on youtube......and spaering didnt cost 15m
ReplyDeleteOnce you get past ManU and Man City, how many players in the premier league are causing opposing managers to lose sleep? Maybe a handful?
ReplyDeleteHow many players on LFC do that to opposing managers? I'm thinking Suarez and Stevie (when he's in good form).
It's rare to go out and get buy a player who's immediately going to transform a team and carry them. RVP did it this year for ManU. He's the exception, not the rule.
I think what it really boils down to is that you either had unreasonable (too high) expectations for Joe Allen and Borini when they came here, or you didn't want them in the first place and are pouncing on their current run of poor form.
And one more thing to clarify (because I wasn't able to reply in the other post where we were discussing), BR loaned out Carroll and Spearing. The only player he sold of the three you mentioned was Charlie Adam. Not only did Adam show nothing for a whole year, he is a slow player who relies on long crosses. He didn't fit here at all any more. There's still a chance that Andy and Jay come back. Although word is that Andy has an option-to-buy in his loan deal.
Surely football is a team game. The team was at the start of a big learning curve in terms of a new style of football. Perhaps not the best time to judge Allen. A new player, new team, new manager, different style of play.
ReplyDeletethat sound like a tounge twister
ReplyDeletedont include me im having a ball
ReplyDeleteIn your opinion. I have chosen to reserve judgement at the moment actually. I think he needs time. End of.
ReplyDeletedont think he was as vocal. Strange that.
ReplyDeletegood point with Hendo and ditto Lucas.
ReplyDelete...and aren't we all? :-)
ReplyDeletei dont rate spearing or adam ....the point im making is allen is hardly an improvement....as for carroll id much rather him come on off the bench than borini
ReplyDeletestill use a round ball and the same rules dont they you make it sound alien
ReplyDeleteDid someone compare him to Walcott?
ReplyDeleteNo, he is not a Walcott. I think he is fast but like I said earlier, he is not blistering.
ReplyDeleteevery striker with pace who can head the ball causes us problems
ReplyDelete:-)
ReplyDeleteI'm just a little fed up with everyone being so quick these days to slag something off that hasn't even been given 5 minutes.
That sounds too much like the Chelsea fans which makes me shudder! (I do not like that team one little bit!)
As a manager he will live or die by the performances of his signings. I agree not all seem to be working out; but great managers like Shankley, (I'm not comparing them!) and Paisley, would have been able to introduce the younger players gradually, over two or three seasons. These same players would have had sturdy, established men around them to learn the game from.
Example, Clemence was a teenager when he was signed. He never made his debut for a year; and even when he had, it took him another 3 years to full displace Lawrence.
McDermott, signed at 22 and made 15 appearances in season 1 and 9 in season 2.
Rush signed at 18 and played 0,7 and 18 games for the respective following seasons. etc...
Would we have called for their heads as well if they were being signed today?
Admittedly, upon reading this, I did get a decent chuckle :)
ReplyDeletecan we really wait til the sun is a red dwarf
ReplyDeleteI didn't think I said anything in that reply that needed to be moderated?
ReplyDeleteI would put it this way, I would not rather have Spearing at the club. I dont beleieve he is good enough personally. You may disagree. Fair enough.
ReplyDeleteIf you're that far off the pace, you should be in the reserves or elsewhere, and join our first team when you're ready to contribute.
ReplyDeleteLucas deserved the criticism he got early on, as he was sh!te and didn't deserve to be in the team, yet started pretty much every game as we slid down the table.
You do make me chuckle; quietly, but it's a chuckle none the less.......
ReplyDeletedont think I do sound alien actually gilstrap. Thought what I said sounded sensible actually. There are many ways you can play football. Anyone who watches the game should know that?
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting point. I'm a huge believer in the power of the mind and how it can improve physicality at the top level. When the head is not right for whatever reason, the body will not respond naturally and a fight between the two ensues. (Torres anyone?)
ReplyDeleteIf world class sportsmen and women speak that highly of him then I for one appreciate and welcome his services.
we do look vulnerable to headers, last night was not the first time. Pace can kill when holding a high defensive line or losing the ball in the wrong area of the pitch.
ReplyDeletethe proof will be in the pudding over the next year or so. His resume looks promising to me.
ReplyDeleteHe definitely comes across as wanting nothing more than to succeed.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Henderson. Strange how things change so quickly.
Excellent point
ReplyDeleteIMO he could be a very good player in the future but he is struggling at the moment.
ReplyDeleteYou speak a lot of sense.
ReplyDeletegilstrap, if I could put money on Allen making you eat your words in the future, I would do it.
ReplyDeleteTo add to this point, we also played West Brom (when they were playing well), Man City, Arsenal and ManU in the first month of the season.
ReplyDeleteThe learning curve just got a little bit longer.
That's based on pure match ups.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, what I meant was, what player, no matter who he is playing, causes the opposing manager to lose sleep?For instance, RVP and Suarez cause the opposing manager to lose sleep no matter what.
Have had that problem, too, recently. You didn't take my previous comment as offensive, did you? It wasn't meant offensive, belittling or negative in any way or form.
ReplyDeleteYep, agree. I think that the state of ones mind is important in all walks of life. It determines whether one succeeds or fails.
ReplyDelete:-)
ReplyDeleteGood points.
ReplyDeleteBut the point is Jay, that if Lucas or Henderson where judged so soon at still a young age we'd have missed out on one very good player an another that look like he will be very good too. 6 months of the season gone and Borini was injured 3/4 months of it and hes been judged. And his previous strike rate shows he knows where the net is.
ReplyDeleteDefinitely not. I enjoy our dialogue. You make worthy points of discussion and I welcome them.
ReplyDeleteYou leava me alonea, stopa judging me, I will come gooda you bastardos fafungoloa!!!! Trusta me -- Fabio Borini. YNWA
ReplyDeleteI think so far Borini has been below par, but we must bear in mind he only had a few games, then got injured, so again has only just come back. While on current form he doesn`t look to good, some players take longer to settle and find there feet on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is, he needs game time to do that, and personally I would rather have someone else up front rather than him. Currently he is below Sterling, Suarez, Sturridge and Downing on my prefered choices in the front three. So its a bit of a catch 22. I want to give him more time, but i don`t really want him playing.
rodgers must have seen something in him when he was at 'r*ngers lite'. i think he may have paid a tad too much though.....then again he was a snip, compared to mr. caroll.
ReplyDeleteWell according to his interview after, once we hit 2-0 up, he wanted and tried to get Jose on, to steady the left side, but apparently Jose was having problems with his boots, so couldn`t quick enough.
ReplyDeleteI disagree agree, early season form counts as much as form at any time. If other players had had better form at the start, we might have won a few more games, and therefore be in fourth spot right now.
ReplyDeleteI think the lack of confidence shown in him via tactical decisions by BR himself is the reason why Borini appears totally out of place. It's clear from previous teams what Borini's best position is but 1) BR does not play him there; 2) Borini himself does not have the personality/mentality to do it at Liverpool. However, given time, he may just be able to cut it - but imo, I think only if he's played through the middle. With DS and Suarez around, no chance.
ReplyDeleteNot everyone is slagging them off buddy. I am actually really excited with our little project, of course when we play bad or lose im gutted, but overall I like our style, and what we are doing.
ReplyDeleteIs this a joke? When John Aldridge was 21 he was playing league football in Wales with Newport. He scored 7 goals in the 80-81 season from 26 appearances. He only proved himself in top flight football when Oxford United won promotion in 1985. He signed for Liverpool when he was 27 years old, 6 years older than Borini this season.
ReplyDeleteCredit to Aldridge, he's not a complete idiot and suggests that Borini may need "year or two" to settle in. Of course fans see a sizeable transfer fee and think that every signing must have an immediate impact or else they are to be written off as a failure. I'm not sure what's up with Liverpool fans these days, it's either instant gratification or nothing. Borini has played only THIRTEEN games for the club. The idea that we can just write him off as useless is nuts.
Can people not think of other players who have had slow starts to their career? Crouch went 19 games at Liverpool, most of them as starting centre forward, without scoring a goal. He was then our top scorer in 06-07.
I just don't see the point in making these judgement of players when there are plenty of years left in them to improve. Give the guy at least the rest of the season, he's been out with a broken foot which is a devastating injury for any footballer. It's the same with Assaidi and even Joe Allen. Every player has a rough patch and some players need a few years to find their role at a team. There actually isn't anything wrong with that. Everyone needs to relax and allow for some kind of actual process to take place.
Have to agree with you, borini missed an absolute sitter at the beginning of 2nd half v oldham to equalise, moments later were 2 down, if you usually see something in a player to suggest he can be the real deal or not, ive saw nowt in borini, i reckon he wont last much more than a year
ReplyDeletebang on mate
ReplyDeletei think him and reina !
ReplyDeleteYeah the 'early season form means nothing' reasoning is absurd. I also find it hard to believe this idea that he has been 'found out'. As though there's some part of his game that everyone just simultaneously realised they could exploit... If this were the case it wouldn't have taken a season and a half for that to happen.
ReplyDeleteIt was a chance against Oldham, and he did well to get into that position, but it was by no means a sitter. It was on an angle and not like he was directly in front of goal. This is not excusing him, just saying it wasn't a sitter. And by the way, he makes very intelligent runs and takes defenders away, creating space. This is also the job of a striker and he does this extremely well. Looking at his spell at Roma, first half of the season, he took awhile to get into the swing of things, second half of the season, he was on fire, forced his way into the Italian Euro squad. He has just come back from a serious injury, just like Lucas did, but the majority of people weren't saying we should sell Lucas.
ReplyDeleteBorini and Henderson are different to Lucas though as Lucas's natural position is a box to box attacking midfielder, much like Steven Gerrard. He won the best player in the Brazilian league, youngest player to do so at the time, in this position. This is the position he was initially bought for. However with the departures of Alonso and later Mascherano, he adapted his game to become the defensive/holding midfielder and he has become world class in that position. And for those who dismiss that he is world class in that position, name 5 players better in that position, I doubt many people honestly can.
ReplyDeleteRodgers has worked with him not just at Chelsea, but also at Swansea as he was a vital part of the Swansea squad that won promotion, so Rodgers has a lot of faith in him.
ReplyDeleteYour name isn't Robbie Fowler, therefore you can't be God. Simple.
ReplyDeleteHe is simply an unexciting player... He virtually offers nothing to the team... But it will be harsh to rule him out at this stage... He has to double his efforts... 11 million pounds is not petty sum...
ReplyDeleteWhy not get really good proven players at around 20 million pounds, instead of many crappy ones?!?!
For 26m spent, the return is pretty poor and unexciting...
im sorry but fabio borini nor joe allen are liverpool quality and rodgers needs to understand that even if they played good for him at swansea that this is not swansea. this is liverpool football and we dont settle for average players, especially not at big prices.borini is worth about £5m and so is allen, there is nothing special to their game to make that fee any higher. with the 15m from allen we could have got michu(2m), Diame(3.5m), giuseppe rossi(9.5m, despite injured he is absolute world class). with the 11m from borini we could have got keuisuke honda(11m) world class champions league experienced player who is the magician type to completely change the fortunes of a club. instead we ended up with allen and borini? are these players really liverpool quality? obviously not which is why your only to due to see glimpses or stages of form instead of consistent impacts on games. we could have got 4 very talented footballers but instead have ended up with 2 shit ones. borini has no future at liverpool and neither does allen if other midfielders are performing and offering a goal or attacking threat which allen clearly doesnt. although allen is a good anchor man due to his good work rate and interceptions but with lucas in the squad he has no chance.
ReplyDeleteFabio Borini and Steward Downing is very big mistake for LFC.Better sell out after this season will be ending.NO GOAL WITH EXPENSIVE PRICE WITHOUT BIGGEST CONTRIBUTION.Only some times they will hit the form. Others?fail...and failed
ReplyDeleteI think after 2 or 3 game we can start with coutinho playing AM while gerard sitting at the back with lucas...maintain spearhead of suarez sturiddge and downing...defend we can back as our strong line of johnson skrtel agger and enrique...wisdom is in good form but still lack of confidence..always look like to play reina when he get the ball....carra successor i think...hahaha
ReplyDeletelawrenson is a past player i dislike most , he's amazing at jusmping on the bandwagon , he loves to sit in judgement on other people , well mark lawrenson im going to judge you this morning , mr lawrenson do you stil deny that you scored 2 own goals at anfield , v Q.P.R. as part of the betting on your own team ? was you never part of the circle of match fixing footyplayers at our club back in the good old 1980's youre no legen in my eyes or the lads from anfield , everton , huyton , dingle, kirkby croxtheth norris green kirkdale bootle speak halewood garston , also the scouse lads around uk , holland spain even usa , LAWRENSON YOU CHEATED THE SUPPORTERS OF LFC WHO WENT TO WATCH OUR CLUB WEEK AFTER WEEK SPENT THEIR HARD EARNED CASH , FOR YOU AND CO , TO RIG GAMES FOR GREED ,
ReplyDeleteWhere did you see me refer to myself as God, or even a god?
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, you'll never see me refer to Robbie Fowler as a god either. I'd like to think that LFC would have won a title or two if God was playing upfront for us...
Why would' we have missed out??
ReplyDeletePlayers can prove themselves while being eased into the team slowly - as Henderson has this season - rather than being forced in while they're not good enough, to the detriment of the team, as with Lucas.
Once you're a consistent first team starter, you're there to be judged, regardless of your age, experience or any other excuse.
Sorry Gaz but whats the difference? The fact is, Lucas didnt show us fans he was a decent player for a few years and then when he settled he was world class. Henderson and Borini havent played in their natural positions when they first came in (Borini still isnt) and Henderson is showing promise and Borini still could do so. My point is i'm reserving judgement for a while. Crouch played the first 6 months for liverpool without scoring a goal then was red hot.
ReplyDeleteAgree. It's much easier to introduce youngsters into an already successful team.
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is the internet (as well as those phone-ins) that gives everyone the platform to voice their opinion, however nonreflective that may be. Read somewhere the other day that a bad experience one makes will be told nine times, while a good one only five times. Negative things seem to stick better to man's mind.
May I add that I don't think someone moaned about the appointment of Shankly pointing out that he hadn't won anything.
We all want the glory days back, but some seem to forget that our past glory didn't exactly come overnight.
People are talking about Rodgers selling Borini based on his form so far. My point is, if Rafa had sold Lucas on his early form-we would have missed out. The same as if we sell Borini prematurely-maybe we would miss out. Hence me saying i reserve my judgement. I thought my point was clear, sorry.
ReplyDeleteDon't think he meant every single person, but some and very noisy at that.
ReplyDeleteTo me it seems you're having a field day every time a result goes wrong, or in Allen's case, every time he misplaces a pass.
ReplyDeleteBorini would surely know how to spell "Vaffanculo". Don't think he is a guy who'd resort to this kind of language anyway, but if he did, he'd possibly call his detractors "faccia di cazzo" or "stronzo".
ReplyDeleteEven Alonso looked out of place after coming back from a broken foot.
ReplyDeleteGot to finally agree with you Jaimie ! If Borini plays its got to be the center. He is a classical striker playing off the shoulders of the last defender, making diagonal runs and applying the finish. He simply hasnt shown any ability to play elsewhere. If played he should be the center forward with Suarez and Sturridge either side of him, with Suarez being given more tactical freedom
ReplyDeleteI could have very easily told you from the first time I watched Jamie Carragher plays and kicks a football that he is technically inept. You on the other hand might have required two decades to even take notice of it.
ReplyDeleteHave to agree, it's situations like that, which usually show what players are made of. What's the point of making the space and getting into great positions and not being able to finish? I'm sorry, but coming back from injury isn't an excuse for not taking your chances as a striker. I haven't seen anything yet that shows me he will succeed with us.
ReplyDeletelisten mate if he was actually any good he would be starting more. Talented players can walk onto any starting 11 on any team. Borini hasn't showed anything so far to indicate he should be starting on any team. He was fortunate to have worked with Rodgers before. It's all his got going for him at all. Nobody will pay a lot for him right now. If anything his value has gone down since coming to Liverpool. The only place he seems to dominate is on twitter and not on the pitch. How do you say "failure" in Italian?
ReplyDeleteCurrently better? Or have been?
ReplyDeleteHave beens:
1. Gattuso
2. Roy Keane
3. Makalele
4. Dunga
5. Hamann
Currently:
1. Yaya Toure
2. Mascherano
3. Khedira
4. M'Vila
5. Wanyama
That's back when he wasn't figured out. Now that he is, opponents know they can press him or double up on him to force errors in our third. It's kinda hard to press Lucas.
ReplyDeletelooking forward to the city game , dont have any fear of them either , if the lads are fired up , i believe we'll do ok , what bothers me is , when we get corner kicks , why do we always try placing the ball into the 6yard box , why not take short or to the edge of the 18yd box and smash the ball low n hard into the target , surely better chance of deflected goal or a lfc player getting his toe , heal , knee hip , back and in luis's case a hand to the ball ,i hope borini gets time on the pitch , and scores the winner , confidence booster , it took rushy bout 15 months to find the goal , anyway wish you all a great weekend and hopefully 3points ey lads
ReplyDeleteSome rubbish written on here.
ReplyDeleteBorini is crap [1 goal 0 assists] and will not if given ten years at Anfield ever be a better than zingari league player.We want Liverpool to win the EPL not the MPL [Google it if you don't know what it is] far too much money being spent on not even average players.Midfield players need to be scoring goals or getting assists as per Alonso and others, but what do we get from either Lucas and Allen? one goal and one assist between them in nearly two thirds of the season.
I am genuinely sorry that I stated 'everybody'. I didn't actually mean 100% of LFC fans so apologise for the confusion. Glad to hear some optimism for a change. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteI have also read articles stating the psychology of negative statements being easier to recall;it's how they manage to keep the newspaper industry and tv media , in business.
ReplyDeleteApparently, the human psyche does not overly welcome pure positives and it is deemed boring. (wouldn't sell as many papers if they were just reporting on how good things are. Says a lot about society really.
Agree that it has become really easy to get your opinions out these days.
I'm trying to get my positivity back for the City game. (Don't forget, it's your turn to be depressed next and I will do my utmost to remind the positives when it happens. ) :-)
He also forgot a few 'A's on the end of some of his words.....
ReplyDeletewhat does - is too thick for triple nine- mean?
ReplyDeleteTriple nine is an organisation that only accepts very intelligent people as members.
ReplyDeleteThanks, mate. Great to be a Liverpool fan these days. We look like we can make 4 wins in a row easy.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-_wLGKHWfU
ReplyDeleteWhat an away crowd.
They make quite some noise. At 0:40 and onwards there are even some home supporters putting their hands over their ears.
ReplyDeleteHa ha ha, well, I can't remember when I last thought that we could win four games in a row easily. Back in the 80ies.
ReplyDeleteMe getting born in the late of 80ies can remember lots of times... Too much of a romantic, yes, but this time... Getting back to cl.
ReplyDeletejust amazing.
ReplyDeleteSo you unfortunately missed the best part in our recent history. :-)
ReplyDeleteThat is why I am so positive- it can't be true that I will never see us winning the league... Though Istanbul gave me a glance in the glorious history...
ReplyDeleteThat's a good attitude to have!
ReplyDelete