7 Jan 2013

Fix it: LFC should follow Wenger example over Suarez injustice. If not, why not?

After Liverpool's undeserved victory over Mansfield Town Last night, the Stags' chief executive Carolyn Radford claimed that a potentially lucrative Anfield replay for the club had been 'stolen' by Luis Suarez's handball goal. The non-league put the Reds under massive pressure in the second half, and arguably deserved a draw, but due to refereeing incompetence, it wasn't to be. Well, in my view, Liverpool should try and rectify the situation by exploring the possibility of arranging a replay.

Speaking to reporters, Radford said:

“It feels a bit like the result was stolen from us.

"Whether it was deliberate or not, it should be sorted out. It is very unfortunate that the referees and officials can’t pick up these things. We should be a least having a replay. Handballs are obviously de rigueur.”


If the club has any conscience or sense of fair play at all, it should ask the FA to void the result and stage a replay. Yes, football is about winning, but I don't see how anyone can take any real pleasure or satisfaction from beating a non-league team with a blatantly unfair handball goal.

Frankly, it's embarrassing, especially after Mansfield put on such a passionate fighting display during one of the biggest games in their recent history. It should've been a day to remember, but instead, the occasion is now irreparably marred by a supreme and obvious injustice. Ask yourself the following questions:

* Did Liverpool deserve to win the game?
* Did the club win in a fair manner?
* Was the goal scored in a fair manner?
* Should the Reds be proud of the victory?

The answer to all the above questions is obviously NO. What difference would it make to Liverpool to have a replay? We are, after all, talking about non-league opposition here, not Manchester United, or Arsenal.

With the greatest respect to Mansfield, what do the Reds have to fear from a possible replay? People talk about the 'magic of the FA Cup'; well, here is a chance for the Reds to inject some real magic into the competition.

As a comparison, consider the famous Robbie Fowler fair-play incident against Arsenal in 1997. In the game, Liverpool were awarded a penalty after Fowler went over in the penalty area. He could've kept quiet about it and taken the decision, but to his immense credit, Fowler tried to tell the referee that there was no contact from David Seaman, and the penalty decision was wrong:



The referee did not change his decision, but the point is Fowler *tried* to change the situation, and that is what Liverpool should do now. The club should at least ask the FA to offer Mansfield a replay. Would that not be the ultimate expression of fair play? What does the club have to lose by exploring the possibility of a replay? Absolutely NOTHING.

There is historical precedent for this too. In 1999, Arsenal beat Sheffield United 2-1 in an FA Cup match thanks to goals from Patrick Vieira and Marc Overmars. The winning goal, however, caused major controversy.

The ball had been kicked into touch by a United player so one of his team-mates could receive treatment. Kanu received possession from the resulting throw, he broke away down the right and squared for Overmars to score.

Realising the unfairness of the situation, Arsène Wenger offered United manager Steve Bruce a chance to replay the match at Highbury. Sheffield United accepted the offer, and the rematch took place 10 days later (United lost 2-1).

It CAN be done. It HAS been done, and Wenger deserves immense credit for offering up the replay. Liverpool should do the same.

An attempt by the Reds to try and rectify this injustice would reflect well on the club, especially after Brendan Rodgers singularly failed to even apologise for the incident after the game, which (IMO) is the least he should've done.

Jaimie Kanwar


158 comments:

  1. yep lets have a replay for every decision that goes against clubs...Ridiculous request. 

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  2. Typical short-sighted response. That's not what I suggested, is it? This is a knockout competition, so the consequences are immediate and irrevocable.

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  3. At the end of the day he cheats no more than any other player he is just in the spotlight more than most and why should he own up and say "oh ref I hand balled it rule the goal out" would a defender do the same if they should've conceded a pen? No course not its the officials responsibility to do something about it plus it was ball to hand he is pulling his arm back when it hits him so not deliberate and that's what the officials deemed it to be accidental he ain't the 1st and won't be the last so get off ya high horse and stop being so anti-Liverpool and anti-Suarez no true red would be so clueless or negative or just downright unsupportive!!!!

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  4. In cricket you have walkers and you have those who don't walk. If a player gets a touch he walks, some players don't, they leave it up to the umpire. It a personal choice. The logic is that over a season or a career some decisions will go your way and some won't, the proverbial rub of the green. All this whole saga does it stress how vital it is that technology is brought into the game to help referees make the right decision more often. 

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  5. Actually, why not petition the FA for a replay for every decision that has gone against us? The penalties that were not given to us because of the smear campaign against Suarez? Why not get them to unban him for eight matches or at least four to punish him and Terry alike? There is no need to try and be more catholic than the pope. Sometimes decision go against you, sometimes to go for you. This time, we lucked out and people at Mansfield best get used to the idea. On top of that, who's to say that they would have scored had we not got a second? You can't take one situation out of the equasion and then assume everything else would have gone exactly as it did.

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  6. Can't believe some people still think that the score would have been 1-1 had the goal been dissallowed. The entire dynamics of the game would have changed because the game would have been restarted from the 6 yard box and not the halfway. No ways the rest of the game would have proceded exactly as it did.

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  7. Agree totally.

    But BR desperately needs any win, Sturridge won't want his debut goal chalked off and Suarez is just a victim 'cos it's the ref's fault, so won't happen! Jaimie you're too idealistic - football is all about winning and doing anything it takes to achieve that!

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  8. "refereeing incompetence" - you really should think before you write.  Refs have an extremely difficult job, not helped by you with your hindsight aided by 40 camera views.
    Zero tolerance on cheating -- any foul is cheating; so what are you proposing for that?

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  9. The FA would not welcome a replay neither would Liverpool, however a friendly at Anfield where the FA cup percentage of the profits go to Mansfield would be the best thing to do.

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  10. A replay is a ridiculous idea. You say what do we have to fear from a replay. Possible injuries and another game on the fixture list, that's what. So Ireland should have had a replay when Henry handballed against us in the qualifying game. If you are going to start having replays becuase of incidents like this, just how many games are we going to play every season? And to say Rodgers should have apologised is also nonsense. The Mansfield Manager and players have come out and said that they don't blame him so what is there to apologise for? Let's not have a pop for the sake of it.
    On a sidenote, nice to see Sturridge score on his debut.

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  11. Ok, so on this point, each and every retrospective injustice needs to be replayed or "fixed". You are living in a dream world.
    The truth is, we as fans support, follow and clebrate our teams and always have, however, football has changed and is more about money and the results now, if we had lost/drawn, your post would be about how to fix Liverpool after a dismal result or something similar, debate around the handball will continue to no avail, and quite frankly, it is obvious to any FOOTBALL fan that the goal should not of stood. It did, a reverse of the situation against Everton, where Suarez scored a legitamet goal that was ruled off side.
    Your suggestion is lame, and simply an excuse to let the media continue with a futile attempt to get Suarez out.

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  12. Robbie Fowler didn't tell the ref its not a penalty. He told the ref not to send Seaman off, John Barnes said this on ESPN.

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  13. same thing happened to Ireland in a playoff with France when Henry hand balled.....i recall sepp blatter laughin at requests for replay & rightly so. you do it once, you set a precedence & in turn ruin the game. 

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  14. why? what's the point?

    who ever said football was fair? (...a beach ball, ...ffs?)

    why is it up to the club to try to rectify an official's mistake? (which is doomed to failure anyway - as you acknowledge). every week there are mistakes made and while the FA may change a card, they don't change results.

    Move on Jamie, nothing to see here...

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  15. Jamie, Get off Suarez's back you dick.  Peter Crouch was not villified.  Foreign player does it and oh.. surprise surprise - disgrace.

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  16. We're still assuming that the refs didn't see the contact with his hand. Isn't it still possible that they saw what happened and ruled that it wasn't deliberate? As the rules stand it's not a foul if it's not deliberate. In that case there is nothing at all wrong with the goal and Liverpool can be perfectly happy with the victory. 

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  17. You only write to annoy people, how you haven't been spotted by the Daily Mail I don't know. 

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  18. Was it Arsenal who offered to replay a tie with Sheffield United under similar circumstances (unsporting play)? It was replayed - didn't ruin the game.

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  19. And for what it's worth, Liverpool would be exposing many millions of pounds of footballing talent to an extra game that they technically don't need to play. The risk of injury, the extra stress on the players who need to now play an extra game ... we're still in Europe and only Chelsea have played more matches than us this season. We have a thin squad with many young and/or injury prone players. You can argue that these risks and costs are small but they are very much not nothing. 

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  20. In fairness, the guy keeps a site up and running for Liverpool supporters to discuss goings on at the club without asking for anything in return from us. He may have a, say, controversial view on some matters but he doesn't deserve to be attacked for it.

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  21. No relay. All part of the game. Its a pity; but that's football. If they wish to replay decisions made during the game then that detail should be established at the start of the season. We would have won the Everton game if the referee had seen the poor linesmans decision. Its a pity but its a natural reaction for any player if a ball is deflected onto them (not deliberate). The Irish World cup game was not replayed against France - which was a deliberate act. 

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  22. liverpool fan living in mansfield great game but most of all well done mansfield supporters out sang and showed passion liverpool fans shame did not show same two scalfs for ynwa poor all night

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  23. Well remembered! I've updated the article to include that. Makes a mockery of all these people saying it can't be done.

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  24. Is the Fowler incident really a good example? He then tried to score the pen then celebrated with McAteer. The equivalent of offering a replay would be to not take the pen or fire it wide don't you think?
    I won't even go there with what I think about the suggestion of exploring the possibility of a replay.

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  25. You're completely missing the point. Wenger offered Sheffield United an FA Cup replay in 1999 after an unfair winning goal; why can't Liverpool do the same?

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  26. i was going to suggest the same thing good call

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  27. Arsena Wenger did the same in 1999. Did he moan about 'millions of pounds of footballing talent' being exposed to an extra game? No. He did the honourable thing and offered the replay. You are just making excuses.

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  28. To be honest, what's done is done. The goal counted and whether or not it was intentional, the game has finished. Clubs need to leave the decisions to the referee otherwise what's the point of having a referee if their decisions can be contested and changed after the match. Even if the goal had been disallowed, who's to say Liverpool wouldn't have scored another? The saying 'the ref's decision is final' doesn't seem to count anymore.

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  29. If the ref is aware of the incident then there is nothing that can be done post match. I dont get all this fuss, would a defender who handballed in the area run to the ref and tell him he should award a penalty!?!? (NO) so why should Suarez be expected to run to the ref to chalk it off?

    If it happened at the other end it would be called the magic of the cup

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  30. I can partly agree with Jaimie, Mansfield was really on top of Liverpool and deserved a rematch. 
    However, The handball situation was intentional or not is the referee's decision, it could have gone with a yellow to suarez and goal disallowed. We have to accept the decision, Imagine if this was LFC vs Man utd in cup tie. I wouldn't like a rematch and of course the FA wouldn't allow a rematch if results have gone otherwise. 
    Moreover, The less games we play is better as we have to focus on league and we too have a tiny squad. 

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  31. that was a fair play issue, not a decision/incident that was missed by the officials... 

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  32. Yes 'consequensces ARE immediate and irrevocable'..Exactly WHY there should not be a reply.
    Do you even think about what you say?

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  33. Check Rodger's comments about the incident. Unless he's flat out lying he says that he clearly made a comment to the fourth official who confirmed to him that the handball wasn't deemed to be deliberate. If that's the case, if the refs saw the contact and made the decision for themselves then it's a non-issue. 

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  34. AndWithSuchSimplicity11:23 am, January 07, 2013

    It's actually a lovely idea to offer a replay. Can't see it happening, but a lovely idea none-the-less. 
    I'm just unsure as to your motives for this one, Jay. Is it so that we suddenly become media-friendly again? Or miraculously become everyone's "2nd club" again? 
    Shit happens in football - perfectly good goal ruled out in '88, perfectly good goal ruled out in last year's final. I didn't see Wimbledon or Chelsea rushing to offer us an olive branch.

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  35. And the excuses continue! You're so biased you can't see the wood for the trees. The ref *allowed* the goal; is that not a decision?

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  36. so jaimie you are now trying to say suarez did it on purpose,or why would we offer a reply re the arsenal v sheff utd game was a completely different kettle of fish that was blatent cheating ,for lfc to offer a reply would mean suarez or lfc did it on purpose,i,ve got an idea we could offer a reply hang suarez out to dry and let the fa ban him for 8 games for cheating

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  37. I'm not saying we can't, I'm saying we shouldn't. Reason being, had this happened against us (and it has) we would have had to live with it aswell as there wouldn't be a club in the world that would do this. Whenever something like this happens, you will be told that it's part of the game and these decisions even themselves out over a season. We've had it happen to us this season and now it worked to our advantage for a change. Second reason why we should not is because it's incorrect to assume the score would have been 1-1 at the end of the game and there would have been a replay at all. As someone said, the dynamics of the game would have changed and possibly also the outcome. Yes, there is a possibility they would have scored anyway but there is just as big a possibility that the keeper would have played the free kick directly in the path of Suarez for him to score anyway. So yes the goal should not have stood and maybe Suarez should have even been booked for it but no it's not right to assume they are entitled to a replay just because they happened to have scored a goal later on as well.

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  38. AndWithSuchSimplicity11:24 am, January 07, 2013

    I posted last night that ITV confirmed the ref AND 4th Official both saw the incident and both deemed it accidental handball.
    What are we supposed to do? Walk off?

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  39. completly different case that was pure cheating this is not 

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  40. What about Arsenal offering Sheffield United an FA Cup replay in 1999? You make it sound like the idea is somehow sinful, yet it's been done. What exactly is the problem? Do you have no sense of fairness at all?

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  41. Fowler couldn't help it. His brain doesn't allow him to miss.

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  42. It should of counted anyway. Look how close Suarez is to the keeper? It rebounded at speed.... He try's to remove his hand. But it hits it..... It's just when a player hits the ball and it hits the defender on the arm (but it's to close not to remove your hand) the ref plays on.... It's the same thing here.... Because its luis Suarez people are making it a big thing..... Suarez has been backed by pundits and ex players. He was right. It stood and we won. End of matter :)

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  43. AndWithSuchSimplicity11:26 am, January 07, 2013

    And don't even get me started with LUTON....

    Didn't bother turning up at Anfield for a replay. Then knock us out on a plastic pitch.
    Now, THAT is cheating........

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  44. My motive is simple: fair play. Doping something that redresses the balance. 

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  45. No, I'm making a simple statement. You said Liverpool have nothing to lose and that's not true. Saying that an extra match of football would have an impact is not an excuse, it's an undeniable fact. Why can't you accept that?

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  46. Yes, it would have an impact, but you roll out the worst case scenario, as if the game would mean injuries etc for the club. It didn't happen yesterday, did it, so why would it happen in a replay? The bigger issue is fair play. Liverpool could do something good in the cesspool of modern football.

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  47. can we please get the 2 points for the everton game, replay the match against man utd from the point shelvey got red carded, call the stoke GK for a couple of PKs that we didnt get at anfield. Immediately after all these replays we can play against mansfield town. All this should be done ASAP to save the game!!

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  48. Yes. Everyone is right. LFC should ask for replay. Suarez is a cheat.We should also go back retrospectively and overturn every decision in football where teams lost due to similar circumstances. I also have the following suggestions. 1. We should no longer depend on match officials on decisions,instead all the reporters and reporters wannabees should decide whether any foul is committed during matches. 2. To prevent the ball from striking the hands of strikers and defenders, all players must now have their hands bounded to their sides or alternatively their hands strapped to elastic bands that will snap their hands back to their sides if raised too high. 3. Before Suarez celebrates any goal, he should first ask all his bullies (who should stand near the opposition goal) whether it is alright to celebrate it the same way he does with every goal. This will make his bullies happy!

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  49. And in all of this unnecessary chatter, the fact that our new striker scores on his debut, albeit against non-leaguers, thus raising his confidence right at the start, gets lost.

    Why not talk about something positive regarding LFC for a change? And I'm not talking about all the ridiculous should we sign this player topics. I guess the reason should be obvious. You want people to argue with you because you want all the hits on your site. This might just be the last time I bother to respond, or even visit your site. Not that it would bother you. It would if everybody boycotted you though!

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  50. The principle is the same: game won by virtue of an unfair goal. That is obvious. The other issue is that the FA *will* allow replays. Why can't you see that?

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  51. Totally agree. The idea that clubs need to take responsibility for fairness in football is nonsense. There is not a clear enough case in this instance. The ref may have made a mistake but that's not for Liverpool to correct. 

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  52. You just have no idea about fair play at all, do you? You're clearly incapable of seeing the issue being discussed here, as evidenced by your cliched, predictably glib reply, offered by anyone who refuses to address the real issue. Bravo :-)

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  53. Why is it not LFC's to correct? The club should be bigger than that, especially against non-league opposition. Saying 'to hell with it' is such a selfish attitude, and it's not good for the game. How often do non-league opposition get to play against Prem league teams? It rarely happens, which is what makes this case exceptional. LFC should be bigger than the petty 'it's not our problem' approach, but with fans advocating it, it's hardly surprising.

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  54. I said it would be a risk, an exposure. I didn't assume injuries or paint some worst case scenario. Stop reading things into my words that are not there. You clearly agree that there would be an impact and that was my only point. 

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  55. There is a possible impact in every single game. Why should that make any difference to trying to rectify an unfair situation? It's just an excuse. It would cost LFC nothing to at least offer a replay.

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  56. That's it then, end of story. People can disagree with the decision but it wasn't cheating and it wasn't some gross injustice. The refs made a call and it's not the job of the club to challenge that based on some arbitrary concept of fairness. 

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  57. because it was accedental if he had smash the ball in the net with his hand on purpose you would have a point but he did not ,also the fa cup is a yearly competition if every game that had a issue in it got replayed it would have to be over 4 years like the fa cup ,you go on about cheating well m8 there were a lot more clear cut issues over the 3rd round games than this (brighton v newcastle)so why not concentrate on them instead,as you have said before this site is not only about lfc ,so if you want to carry on with you cheating crusade please use the worst one not just the one that involves suarez,who imo is not guilty of any offence

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  58. Jaimie seriously? I understand the whole honorable stance you are taking... but wow, just seems a bit much given the whole thing. The refs maybe should have done a better job, sure, but it's not LFC's job to go and rectify mistakes by referees.


    Next season will see the introduction of goal line technology... perhaps Captains should have 1 review each like in cricket for dubious decisions in games... Don't try put a plaster on the wound, you actually need to solve the greater issue, not ask for another replay...

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  59. Have you heard of casue and effect, if Suarez doesn't score the offside goal, maybe they aren't as motivated and it ends one nil.

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  60. No, that is not true! It's like Chinese whispers. What Rodgers actually said is:

    "‘I spoke to the fourth official when it was given because I couldn’t see and he said it was handball, so I can only assume they thought it wasn’t deliberate".

    The fourth official did not say it was not deliberate; he merely admitted it was handball. Rodgers made the assumption that it was not deliberate. Big difference.

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  61. so lets ask for the 3 points from everton game and then ask for replays after not getting pens we can end up top of the league there living in a dream world well said good points.

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  62. As a Mansfield fan I've got to say it's a dead issue for me. If the officials don't see it they can't give it. You can't prove it was deliberate so you can't punish Suarez (this time). And if it had been the other end I'd have happily taken the goal. It was unfortunate for us but thats how it goes sometimes.

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  63. Why not? Wenger offered a replay in an FA Cup game almost 14 years ago. There was no goal-line tech then. Why can't LFC do the same now? Why does it have to be so complicated? It's simple: offer the replay.

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  64. Please outline exactly what is grounds for a replay. Also why should we offer a replay when based on a massive sample, only a tiny tiny percentage of other teams would do the same. I know just because other teams don't, it does'nt make it right for us but why should we put ourselves at a disadvantage all the time. In ll honesty i'd rather win trophies than friends

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  65. Now you're just contradicting yourself. Anyway, refer to my comments below. The refs saw the incident and deemed it not intentional. Rodgers agrees, as do countless others, experts and fans alike. So there is no injustice to correct. It was ruled a fair goal at the time and unless you can conclusively prove it was a deliberate handball then it's a non-issue. Certainly no one at Liverpool seems to think it was deliberate so that's the end of it. 

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  66. Would Mansfield be offering a replay if the reverse happened. (if they did, would only be for financial reasons)
     

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  67. I thought this was a moral and not a money issue

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  68. The Arsenal game was a unique circumstance. 
    You can't offer a replay every time there is a controversial goal in a game or if a goal is incorrectly ruled out. Where would you draw the line? Only when it's against a non-league side who need the money? Or when their all round performance deserved more! 
    Come on this post is just to attract comments isn't it! You don't really think it should be suggested do you?

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  69. Yesterdays goal was't unsporting play. 

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  70. Let's see what the Mansfield manager has to say about the whole episode....from the BBC

    Cox also refused to criticise Suarez for the handball.

    "I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt and say it was a reaction. He's a
    goalscorer and I think goalscorers put the ball in the net anyway," he added.



    When asked whether he felt cheated, Cox said: "No I don't. For me to come out
    and say something like that I think would be quite cheap.


    "If it had gone in the other end and one of our players had done it I think
    we'd have accepted it."

    I think the last statement says it all. This is from the manager, not some suit in a boardroom. Can we put this one to bed now?

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  71. yes he rips into liverpool every day gets on evras side not suarez gets paid from doing site  but hes a manc living off the back of liverpool supporters so come in the real world.dont ever think he does this because he loves liverpool get real

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  72. I don't post stuff just to get a reaction. I post what I genuinely and passionately believe and feel. The idea I post stuff just for comments is ridiculous.

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  73. Not really. I simply don't agree with your assertion that a gross injustice has been served. Of course Mansfield feel hard done by and it's a controversial decision but it's also a controversial rule. The rule is very clear: a handball MUST be intentional. What you're suggesting is that Liverpool as a club are to over-rule the refs decision on the day. That's not a response of "it's not our problem" it's a response of "it's not our place". It seems like a harsh reality and it doesn't quite make sense, not intuitively, but if you consider the rules as they are written there is actually no issue here. People are struggling with the rule itself, not the incident. No matter how many times it happens we feel like a handball is wrong, even if it's accidental. It just seems strongly that way, but that is how the rule is written. If anything needs to change then it's the rules but that's an entirely different discussion. 

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  74. If it was the other way round would you want Mansfield to offer us a replay? Would you take it? Of course you wouldn't. It would be embarrassing.

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  75. Yes, it was certainly not the best way to decide a game but at the same time I don't think anyone can definitively say whether the handball was deliberate or not.  Most people will make assumptions based on Suarez's questionable character, which is perhaps understandable to a degree, but doing so is categorically (and legally for that matter) not the correct way to determine whether a particular incident was one thing or another. This is especially so where there is ambiguity, such as in this case.

    Personally, I don't see how a replay in this or any other sceanrio would be a workable solution to incorrect decision making because it sets a dangerous precedent which could easily spiral out of control where teams demand rematches for all manner of decisions.  For example, a red card decision will always alter the nature of a game (especially for the team down to ten men). So should each incorrect red card result in a re-match? What about penalty incidents, both where a penalty is awarded (incorrectly or otherwise) or when a penalty is not awarded but should have been - do we have a rematch then? Ditto, offside decisions etc. 

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  76. Are you indirectly suggesting this post is silly by any chance?

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  77. Um, no, not really. The fourth official confirmed that the handball was seen. That's all that matters. If they saw it then of course it follows logically that they concluded it was not deliberate. What else could have happened? Did the officials see the handball and just ignore it or pretend it didn't happen?

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  78. It would be an extremely bad precedent for Liverpool to offer Mansfield a replay. Whist it would show fair play, it would create a whole number of issues:
    -Liverpool, and other clubs for that mater, would have to live with consequences of not owning up to future poor refereeing decisions. 
    -Is it because a conference side was on the receiving end of a bad decision that people are calling for a replay? Would there be such concern if Liverpool or another Premier League side had lost out in the same way? Unlikely. So why discriminate?
    -Should we be doing referees jobs for them? Not only does this undermine them further, but they get paid to do a job, and so need to find a way to do it better, even if that includes the use of video technology.

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  79. Well said my boy,well said!

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  80. No mistake was made, the ref saw the incident and called it ball to hand and the goal was legal.

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  81. What would the Mancurians do? They'd just take the win and go on about how "magnificent" they were, and Fergie would come up with some kak excuse...

    Ok Jaimie, offer the replay...

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  82. wengar got shamed into the reply because 3 of his players blatently cheated the person who took the throw kanu for not passing it back to utd and overmars for scoring suarezs was not deliberate massive difference

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  83. Sorry if I have got you wrong but you can understand how that may make sense to me. I just can't take this suggestion seriously and then using Fowler trying to score a pen/ celebrating the goal as an example to back up the suggestion??

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  84. Anyway, the above poster says the ITV confirmed that the on-field ref also saw the incident and deemed in not deliberate. What else is required? You yourself admit it's possible that Suarez didn't intentionally handle the ball. The refs obviously ruled that to be the case and that's an entirely reasonable decision. Again, it might seem wrong and unintuitive but that's how the rules are written. 

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  85. A ridiculous suggestion. Should we also give our 5th European Cup back and offer a replay to A.C Milan? Dudek looked way off his line for more than one of those penalties... 

    Serious question: where do YOU draw the line? If we have a counter attack on, say four on two, and the defender brings down our player and gets his yellow card should we demand the same? It is cheating after all is it not? Players play to win and will bend the rules to do so. This is not new and is why we have a referee and his assistants on the pitch to oversee proceedings. 

    Also, suggesting previous misdemeanour's by Suarez  makes it more likely that the handball was deliberate is out of order. You could flip that round and point to the fact that he stayed on his feet and benefited against Sunderland last week when fouled means that he is more likely to have a turned over a new leaf and therefore would never have wilfully cheated- I guess it all depends on the opinion you are trying to get across.

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  86. Let's imagine for a moment that the shoe was on the other foot - Matt Green has just scored the winner for Mansfield but the ball has gone off his hand - his team have just celebrated knocking out Liverpool in the biggest shock in FA cup history, his name is now etched into folklore. Paul Cox is now on the shortlist of chairmen up and down the country.

    Does anyone here think that Mansfield would offer Liverpool the replay?

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  87. i hope we can put it to bed. the goal was allowed. game over.

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  88. Apprently the Ref saw it and deemed it ball to hand. Well thats what the 4th offical told Rodgers apprently.
    If thats true, what now?

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  89. Yes, I am afraid it does appear so. We may debate all season long on what is morally right or wrong on this issue, but it wasn't Suarez that made the decision that the goal stood. The decision was the match officials'. Even the fourth match official knew it came off a hand.
    Should he own up that it was a handball? He does not need to. It was clear for all to see especially the match officials.
    Would a similar uproar happen if it was another player especially an English player? Perhaps the only headline we would see is, "Mansfield robbed by a handball".
    Have you knowingly or unknowingly, in your life, committed a traffic offence or caused someone difficulties and waited to see if anyone had seen it? If none had seen, you would have willingly confessed wouldn't you?

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  90. I see you ignore the other example I used, which is directly relevant to this, i.e. Arsenal offering an FA Cup replay to Sheffield United, which proves:

    * Replays can be granted.
    * There is fair play in the game
    * LFC could offer a replay.

    Also, you've missed the point of my Fowler example. It's to illustrate that he made an effort to achieve fair play.

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  91. Yes, yes. As usual, there's always something different about another team. They were wrong, LFC is right'; there's no comparison and blah blah blah.

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  92. How do you know that? You don't, it's just supposition, based on nothing in particular.

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  93. Was it an 'extremely bad precedent' for Arsenal to offer Sheffield United the replay? Please outline the negative things that affected the game/Arsenal as a result of that example of fair play. Thanks.

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  94. Jamie shut up and stop being a idiot. Last year refs missed lots of fouls and play, all against teams that were playing manchester united and city. So all of those needed to be changed and if they had been both of those teams would not be in europe. Grow up and stop making a fool out of your self.

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  95. Jamie if we had won the game via an offside goal would u still be calling for a replay or is it simply down to your anti Suarez aggenda ?

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  96. excuses??!!.. the arsenal v sheff utd issue had nothing to do with the officials, it was a fair play decision. its not in the rule book that the opposition MUST give back the ball if its put out of play for a player being injured....yesterday,the referee didnt see the hand ball. if he had of, he wouldnt have have allowed the goal. calling for a replay for a decision that was missed by the officials is ludacrous....its not me who cant see the wood for the trees.

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  97. because who's to determine the hand ball was blatant or not?!! you expect liverpool out of goodwill & with games against Utd, City & Arsenal on the horizon to offer a replay....get a grip.

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  98. I have commented on Arsenal example above but this scenario was not in the original post and only added after a comment from Greg.
    If Fowler really wanted to achieve fair play and not just Seaman to stay on the pitch he could have put the kick wide, so it's a poor example.

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  99. I see. So the decision to award Arsenal's winning goal was not a 'decision' by the referee? I get it now. Thanks.

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  100. Once again, you have missed the point (!) It's not about the incident per se; I used it to illustrate that Fowler made an attempt to change the situation, even though he probably knew it was futile. He tried to inject some fair play into the situation.

    I argued that LFC should do the same, i.e. *try* to inject some fair play by offering a replay, even though it might be denied.

    Please stop misinterpreting my words. Thanks.

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  101. Only if it was Saurez who was offside.

    I joke!

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  102. P.S. Fowler missed the penalty, which was extremely half-hearted.

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  103. Sorry but seems to me that you DO post stuff to get a reaction; clickbait it's called. More hits more revenue which is why many LFC supporters dont like this site (purport to be a 'fan's site' but in reality trying to stir up reactions
    The incident concerning Arsenal is not the same as here, what if there had been a foul earlier in the build up, should that then cause LFC to ask the goal to be rescinded? Where would it end
    Equally what precedent would it set, any issue in the build up would cause these debates, issues demanding cancelled goals would become more and more tenuous plus the capacity for bad fans' reactions should one club not 'cancel' a goal etc etc
    Just because it is a cup game has no bearing on the debate, you cannot behave in one way for one type of game and another for a league game (what about it comuing towards the end of a season and influencing the title, what if we did it and caused another team to lose a title eg if it was Man U then there'd be big accusations of improprietry)
    I therefore think you either have not thought this through fully or you are fishing for reactions

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  104. Where did I use the word 'moral'. That is your inference. It's a fair play issue, and within that there are several other issues at play.

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  105. jaimie its not about right or wrong its about fair play it was unintentional so the goal stands and for you who is so against cheating to hold wenger up as a beacon of light is shameful the only person who can run old whisky nose close when it comes to one eyednece,you have not repled to any of my other posts were i make good arguements in the defence of suarez,or about the brighton inccedent because there is no arguement your wrong on this issue and i think this post as run its corse

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  106. yes your right i,ve changed my mind stuff mansfield

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  107. A replay - Are you crazy. Decisions like these happen so much in football.

    Did you not hear Rodgers interview after the game - He asked the 4th official if it was handball and he official said it was but Marriner did not think it was intentional. A decision the ref and the rest of the officials made.

    On the other hand Manfield could have had possibly 3 penalties in the 2nd half but the ref and linesman didn't give it so does that merit a replay also? It's a similar principle where the defenders could have said yes it was handball, therefore a pen.

    Liverpool have had decisions costing the club points this season as well as many other clubs - look at all the offside goals and incidents leading to goals being counted - Do they all merit a replay??

    I understand having good sportsmanship and wish it was part of the game a bit more but there is an ugly side sometimes in football and at times they can go for you or against you - Just like in life!

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  108. I'm not misinterpreting anything. Fowler had the power to change the situation, he chose not to. He didn't miss, it was saved and he celebrated when McAteer scored.

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  109. Your entire arguement falls apart, because the refs saw it, yes they did.
    So you cant have a replay cause the officials knew what happend and deemed it fair. 

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  110. Maybe, but how did Ferguson defend HIS players for far worse acts? Ryan Giggs cheats on brother with his wife for years... How many of their players dive and handball in penalty boxes and score winning goals through questionable means? Rio Ferdinand fails drug tests? Wayne Rooney solicits prostitutes, Eric Cantona fly kicks fans, David Beckham fouls a player blatantly in stoppage time, gets a red card... Paul Scholes congratulates him? Look I'm not going to go and research all of the atrocities United have committed, but I'm sure the list is way longer than ours... and maybe it IS just supposition, but anyone can see a trend in the behavior they perpetuate.


    Perhaps we should distinguish ourselves from that type of thing, but Luis is just one of those players surrounded by controversy - a target, the pantomime villain, the witch in the witch hunt. Cursed to be the most hated and the most loved... I as a Liverpool fan would rather stick up for him. Who else fights as hard on a pitch as Pistolero - he's all heart!  

    Don't grab a pitchfork and flame torches with the rest of the mob, please mate...
    We won the game... that's enough for me

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  111. Well said mate... Mansfield played with heart and I have strong hopes that your club can make steady progress and promotion in the years to come. Some dynamite players in your team and some brilliantly passionate support, so I don't see why not!


    All the best... 

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  112. I like the idea of a replay at Anfield.I think it was a handball,however had a goal not been allowed there's no gaurantee that Mansfield would have scored either! The game would have taken a different track.But the offer of a replay would certainly help relations all round!

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  113. who gives what arsene wenger did at that time! are they the exact same situation? NO! so get off your high horse and your anti suarez position. you are wrong on this issue go start writing about something more interesting ffs.

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  114. Suarez is a cheat. He has admitted as much on more than one occasion. Think about what that actually means. Here is a player who is open, proud even, of how he has deceived officials, broken the laws of the game and has stated that he has no moral compunction about doing so. 

    Plenty of players cheat, Bale, Young, Busquets, Pepe and many more, but at least most of them have the social grace to act innocent. There is a degree of shamelessness to openly cheating and admitting to it that does not reflect well on the individual, the club or the sport.That sort of attitude is going to bring problems. How could it not? The club has to either try to shield Suarez, rebuke him, or dismiss him. It looks like the choice being made is the first one.That choice is probably the best for the success of the club, Suarez scores goals and the form of strikers is a delicate thing not to be idly messed with. But expect the pandering to leave a bad taste in a lot of mouths.

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  115. sometimes your passionate beliefs are ridiculous. like this one!

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  116. There's no need for me to discuss any issues regarding the Arsenal/Sheffield United incident. That was 1999 and the 'historical precedent' extends only as far as the offer of a replay. These two incidents, however, are not one and the same. It was an apparent misunderstanding that led to the Arsenal goal. It is accepted practice that when a team puts the ball into touch so their player can receive treatment, the opposing team gives the ball back at the restart. Hence why Luiz Adriano was recently banned by FIFA for scoring an uncontested goal.

    On the other hand, Suarez' handball was deemed unintentional and thus he is entitled to put the ball in the back of the net. If a Mansfield player had saved a shot, that would have sent Liverpool through to the next round, with his hand, should Mansfield then offer Liverpool a replay? Would it be a talking point for more than 5 minutes? No.

    The practice presently is that, like it or lump it, if the referee witness an event in a match and rules on it, the ruling stands. There are cases, of course, where red and yellow cards are rescinded, and there are many times when I don't agree with this practice, but for any team to try and change it opens up a can of worms. As other people have written where do you draw the line on this? Every week, there are incidents where one team benefits over another, whether it be through a dismissal, a disallowed goal, an incorrect offside decision. If we extend the logic of offering replays for each incident, then knockout competitions and league competitions will never end due to the number of replays that will need to occur (and yes, if we are talking about a moral principle, why should it apply to knockout competitions only?).

    The answer is for the referees to get their house in order!

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  117. Review system with goal line technology!

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  118. hasnt happened again in 14 years. ppl learnt how stupid to offer a replay was.

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  119. Unbelieveably cynical view. No, the same sense of fair play has just not occurred since, which is a sad indictment of modern football, and fans like you.

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  120. Ian Wright;
    Suarez was not intentional, the way he finished made me think he thought it would be disallowed. But the officials missed it !
    Saw a Brighton player get foul, roll over twice, look up at the ref, then roll again! Gets a player sent off, then gets up. Not a word said.
    But because it’s Suarez ,and yes there is previous, but on this occasion , it was not intentional! #Suarezveryeasytarget

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  121. Jaimie i respect your suggestion but shouldn't the FA decide these things on their own.

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  122. Lol... gotta hand it to you Jaimie! You know how to get the tongues wagging... Liverpool-kop 4 life! 

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  123. Lucky for Arsenal, they won the replay, so they didn't quite live to regret it.

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  124. No it was not a decision by the referee. The referee had no decision to make, it was a goal. The issue was that the ball should have been given back to united for sporting reasons, the fact is there is no rule stating this has to be the case so the ref could do nothing but award a goal. Our situation is completely different as the ref/linesman DID make a decision that the goal should be allowed. Your response to the previous poster despite how obvious this is was very sarcastic and patronising, something you claim to not tolerate from us

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  125. Jamie, get down from your high horse mate. The problem is you have probably never actually played football, not even at at pub level.  Had you then you would know that almost every single player that has ever played the game at any level would have done exactly the same.

    It was clearly not deliberate, he tried to move his hand and use his chest and when it hit his hand he kicked the ball out of frustration as it was obvious he expected the ref to call back play and disallow the goal.

    Suarez is a professional footballer - he is not going to turn around and ask the ref to not award the goal - its just not going to happen.

    God is an obvious example to use, but Fowler didn't ask the ref to not award the pen, he asked him to not send off Seaman, and that is not the same.

    And in your article yesterday you quoted the Mansfield Goalkeeper as the nearest person to the incident to back up your argument... Well here's another quote from the same player (Alan Marriott, Mansfield Town goal keeper and the nearest player to the incident)

    ""It happens. I don't think you can call him a cheat. I know a lot of people have done in the past. But every man, from a Sunday League football team to the Premier League, is going to do that and if it gives you an advantage and you can get away with it, then unfortunately that's football."

    Source Sky Sports Interview

    So on that basis, and in the spirit of fair play I think its time to do the honorable thing and admit that you are in the wrong here

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  126. Jaimie, your whole argument is based around a perceived injustice on the false supposition that Suarez deliberately cheated. Yet you acknowledge that you have no idea (as nobody does) that it was in fact deliberate. If the injustice of the goal is not based on deliberate cheating then surely you can't advocate a reply otherwise every officials mistakes, offsides, shots hitting beech balls, fouls leading up to goals blah blah would all warrant a replay? Are you suggesting that this should be the case? Or is it your dislike of Suarez that is motivating this? Either all results based on contentious decisions should be replayed - which is ludicrous, or you are admitting this is all about Suarez. Which is it?

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  127. get real so its better to cheat and swear blind you dont than to admit you do ,i would rather have a cheater in your words than a lieing cheater lol

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  128. The Mansfield coach handled the matter with such dignity yesterday in the post-match interview. Kudos to the chap.

    I just get the feeling this Radford woman is still on a high from being prominently featured in the media this past weekend and cannot handle fading back to obscurity now that Mansfield have had their 15 mins of fame. Without meaning to sound harsh, one cannot help but draw analogies with an ejected Big Brother contestant, desperate to keep her face in the public eye.

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  129. If he assumed it was deliberate, he should have used the mouthpiece he has to alert the ref. He didn't do so, so it's safe to say he didn't think it was deliberate and thus not a foul.

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  130. Of course it's better to swear you didn't do it, or apologise for it (even insincerely) than to admit you did it, take pride in having done it, and laugh in the faces of the people you have wronged. It's not a smart move to antagonise people or to gloat about making them look stupid.

    The fact that it is better to do that, rather than take pride in breaking the rules, is reflected in just how hard it has been for Suarez to be taken seriously by referees when he actually is fouled. If you are a referee and you know that a player cheats and you know that if he puts one over on you then you're going to look like an idiot, then where's the benefit of the doubt going to fall for you when that player is involved in an incident?

    Decisions like that mean goals, points, and league position.

    Suarez would do better to become a sly cheat, or better yet an honest player, because when the refs see you as dirty you're not going to get decisions and potentially more worryingly you're not going to get the protection that you should get from officials. I mean how hard do you think you could get away with tackling Suarez before a red card came out? A lot harder than you could kick most players I'd bet.

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  131. There's a difference between 'attacks' and discussion. You will see bans for attacks/insults etc on many articles. I've heard of personal attacks/threats on JK too and there's no place for that.

    The discussions are the best thing about this site. I've noticed that JK will often present an idea or opinion and stick with it and defend it, rather than being more open about situations where he, after considering different opinions and viewpoints, changes his mind. He gets targeted for that a lot. 

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  132. That is football for you. How many fans on this thread have changed their minds about Suarez? None, people demand I change my view? How is that fair. I defend my views like every other fan out there, and hardly any fan changes their views about certain issues. It's double standards.

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  133. more tosh......this happens all the time in football, because its suarez its   a big issue... boring jamie k get a life...

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  134. if the game was run like you want it to be run jamie k....you would have nothing to talk about.......

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  135. If I remember correctly Sheffield United threatened to walk off the pitch after the arsenal goal was scored. So at that point arsene wenger offered a reply and the match was abandoned. Different from our situation.
    Also I think after tmatch the fa weren't too happy of he decision made by the two clubs but they reluctantly agreed to a replay
    Arsene Wenger was asked why didn't he just score an own goal and he said two rights don't make right
    I think arsene had no choice but to offer a replay because at that point Sheffield United were walking off the pitch.

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  136. why do all you people reply to this muppet......you are just encouraging him.....

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  137. freedom of speech this site is not...

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  138. Seriously, I have to ask: have you deliberately made this up? The match was not abandoned at all. It ended 2-1, and the offer of a replay was made after the game.

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  139. I see you've removed my previous comment about your comment, 'consequences are immediate and irrevocable' as it obviously trips up your entire argument...i.e there should be no replay as any goal rightly or wrongly awarded is an immediate, irrevocable consequence.
    Re-write history Jamie

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  140. Your comment hasn't been removed. It's live.

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  141. I think robbie was trying not to get seaman sent off

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  142.  correctimundo jaimie and they where knocked out

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  143. Jaimie, have you read what Graham Poll has said in his column?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2258138/Luis-Suarez-handball-Mansfield--dont-blame--Graham-Polls-verdict.html

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  144. I like liverpool kop and jamies critical points, but on this occassion mr k ur wrong about replayin Mansfield and fairplay. Arsenal cheated, lfc won due to thr ref. That is fair play to any extent. Now Mansfieldcan sayvthey lost to lfc to a dodgy goal and that they were the better team in the 2nd half. I applauded when green scored and i we cheatrd is feel shame as a lff fan. Saurez has not done anything wrong other footballersbare worse. He's a great playrr of lfc out motto ynwa.

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  145. People would love to see you praise Suarez and drop the cheating stuff, that's what I'm referring to here. I don't agree with that, and I don't want you to assimilate your opinions. 

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  146. Pete - if Suarez had done the slightest positive thing in reaction to the Mansfield goal I would've been the first to write something lauding him for it. I am just waiting for a time when Suarez does something that exemplifies sportsmanship so I can lionise it. Why? Because if he does that, it reflects well on the club, and I care about how the club is perceived.

    He didn't though, and he never has done. Suarez has no concept of real sportsmanship or fair play, and this is reflecting badly on LFC.

    The club has learned absolutely nothing from the Suarez-Evra situation. There is still a gargantuan lack of humility at Anfield, and in its place is pigheaded defensiveness, exemplified by Rodgers' repeated defence of Suarez (just like Dalglish).

    It's a disgrace that no one from the club bothered to express the slightest bit of sympathy for the manner of LFC's victory, and the fact Rodgers didn't apologise beggars belief.

    There is no humility left at Anfield, and that is massively disappointing to me as it's one of the things I love about LFC.

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  147. I understand your point of view. However you're expressing your points as if it is proven that Suarez 100% intentionally used his hand to score the goal and unfortunately for everybody nothing can really be proven. Only Suarez can tell us. 

    I argued previously that it seemed like ball to hand and it was 50/50 just like the Shelvey/Evans tackle v Man United. 

    I'd call this benefit of the doubt, and in this circumstance the benefit went to Suarez and LFC. 

    As a fan I think it's unfortunate for Mansfield; but that's football. If it was 100% handball then I would want a replay in the name of fair play and humility. I grew up in a time period and era of the club different than to what you did but LFC to me was always the 'iconic' club setting the examples, so I know what you mean about humility - But this event is a no win situation for both clubs and for Suarez. 

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  148. In all honestly Jaimie, If it was the Mancs this happened too would you offer the same deal? If not then I dont think that Mansfield should be offered the same reprieve as it wouldn't be fair. 

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  149. Jaimie, just a simple question: if the reverse happened (Mansfield winning from the handball), would you - as well as Carolyn Radford - be up in arms calling for a replay?. Highly doubt it. The Arsenal-Sheffield incident was a completely different (and irrelevant) matter. Everyone expects the ball to be returned to the opposition if one of their players got injured and it was wrong of Kanu not to do that.

    No one can prove that Suarez handled the ball on purpose so why should Liverpool be dishing out replays for that. Just because Liverpool is a bigger club than Mansfield, we shouldn't feel guilty about knocking them out because we're not even sure if Suarez did anything wrong. The only one who did something wrong was the ref; why should Liverpool pay for his mistake?

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  150. Hey JK the discussion is somewhat over but I remember a few incidents that nobody mentioned. Phill Neville handballed on the goal line in 2007 in the Merseyside derby and also in 2009 Scholes saved a shot from Zamora with both his hands heading towards the goal. Fergie even complained about the ref even though it was pretty clear. 

    I think it's better to compare a handball incident with other handball incidents rather than a handball incident and a fair play incident (re Wenger and Shef U). 

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  151. Of course, as a biased LFC supporter you would say 'nobody mentioned' those incidents, but it's not true. Do a news search for those incidents and you will find plenty of news providers reporting them.

    The major difference here though is this: Suarez has a long history of cheating and adverse behaviour; Neville, Scholes and Zamora do not, which explains why more is not made of their isolated incidents. Surely you can see that?

    To ignore the above is just self-deception. A player who has a long history of negative behaviour will obviously receive more stick than a player who is generally honest but screws up every once in a while.

    Have Nevill, Scholes or Zamora every cheated in a World Cup quarter final? have they ever bitten another player? Have they ever created a massive race scandal or their respective clubs? have they ever given opposing fans the finger? Have they ever refused to shake another player's hand after promising their boss they would? No.

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  152. Should man utd give us a replay for when they beat us 1-0 a few years ago despite there goal was a penalty that they fooled the referee to win

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  153. I meant no one mentioned those incidents in this article and debate. Don't jump to conclusions. Also I try to always take an objective view on things. I love LFC, but I am a football fan first. 

    FSG and Rodgers who you are "100% behind" failed you with their lack of humility. The handball could of happened to anyone, say Carragher. The ref ruled it as not intentional. Refereeing decisions shape games often, and this is no different. Suarez has a history and that's a fact, but what's not a fact is that Suarez deliberately cheated and hand balled to score a goal. 

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  154. thats a personal insult. you are an asshole afterall. you are full of shit jk afterall.

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  155. you deleted all except one of my comments in this thread. you left one to hurl an insult towards me while those of mine critisizing your thoughts objectively were deleted. you are an example of a mother fucking censor for your own gain. you represent what is really wrong with blogging. there is no real freedom of speech within even the rules you set becoz you keep redefining your interpretation of your own rules, theres always change. i can see why you develop a following of so many who hate you, despise, to the point of threatening your well being. its because you really are a pathetic hypocritical ASSWIPE. hope you dont delete or modify this one.

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