Liverpool are through to the fourth round of the FA Cup tonight after snatching a disappointing Pyrrhic victory against non-league Mansfield Town. The undeserved 'win' came courtesy of a blatant handball by Luis Suarez, and after the game, the player closest to the incident attacked the Liverpool striker for his conduct.
Speaking to reporters, Mansfield goalkeeper Alan Marriott - who was right next to Suarez when the incident took place - suggested that Liverpool's star striker deliberately used his hand to score the goal. He raged:
"When you see Luis Suarez laughing and kicking the ball over the line, you know what has happened.
"Stewart Downing said he couldn't believe the official had missed that. When you see that it is the decisive goal, it is sickens everybody".
To be fair, I can certainly accept that there may *not* have been any intent; it's perfectly possible, even though Suarez's history suggests otherwise. However, the problem with the rabid pro-Suarez brigade is that they are pigheadedly unwilling to accept any possibility that he *may* have intended to use his hand, and when faced with that accusation, they fall back on the usual 'Suarez is the victim' cobblers.
Having viewed the incident from several angles, it could be argued that it was ball to hand, not hand to ball:
* Suarez's hand comes *down* towards the ball. Am I wrong?
* Why would he move his hand towards the ball in the situation?
* Why didn't he just move his hand *away* from the ball?
There will be the usual pro-Suarez hysterics who defend him no matter what, but given his history, is not highly probable that there was an element of intent? Consider, for example:
* Handball against Ghana in the World Cup. Suarez's reaction:
"The Hand of God now belongs to me. Mine is the real Hand Of God. I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it"
* Deliberate handball against Southampton a couple of weeks ago, for which he received a yellow card. It came from almost the same position as the Mansfield incident:
* Suarez's comments from last season, when he admitted he would happily use his hand in a Liverpool game if it meant a win for the team:
"The sacrifice I made [against Ghana] was because it was so important for Uruguay to make the semi-finals. If I am obliged to stop a ball in the last minute and we win, then I will repeat the action. Success for Liverpool is more important to me than anything else".
So, let's consider the evidence:
* Suarez deliberately cheats in a World Cup Quarter Final by using his hand.
* Suarez admits in an interview that he'd happily cheat for LFC if it meant a win.
* Suarez tries to score with his hand against Southampton this season.
Despite this persuasive evidence, the Suarez apologists will *still* argue that there's no way Suarez intended to use his hand against Mansfield, and they'll present the usual array of excuses:
* It's the ref's fault for not ruling the goal out.
* It's the linesman's fault for not flagging.
* It wasn't deliberate, it was 'instinctive'
* There was no way Suarez could've avoided touching the ball.
Etc.
Obviously, I don't know for a fact that Suarez intended to handle the ball, but, again, his past history suggests it's definitely possible, and in the absence of fact, the next best thing is persuasive empirical evidence.
Anyone who views the footage objectively will concede that Suarez's hand moved towards the ball. Clearly, he knew he'd handled it into the net, but he said nothing to the referee about it. The Uruguayan even completed his usual goal celebration afterwards (!)
To add insult to injury, Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers did not even have the decency to apologise for the incident after the game, even though he admitted it was 'definitely a handball'. All he could think about was defending Suarez, and arguing that it 'wasn't deliberate'.
The least Rodgers should've done is apologise to Mansfield for the injustice of the goal, and the fact that he didn't even think to do that (arguably) reflects badly on him, and the club.
I'll leave you with this question to consider: If the roles were reversed, and Mansfield won the game via a blatant handball, would Liverpool fans just magnanimously accept it and move on. Would Rodgers just dismiss it?
Hell no. Fans across the globe would be foaming at the mouth over the injustice of it, and the hysterical overreaction to every contentious decision that goes against the club supports this.
NOTE: Disagree by all means, but please do so in a civil manner. Anyone who hurls insults will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
Speaking to reporters, Mansfield goalkeeper Alan Marriott - who was right next to Suarez when the incident took place - suggested that Liverpool's star striker deliberately used his hand to score the goal. He raged:
"When you see Luis Suarez laughing and kicking the ball over the line, you know what has happened.
"Stewart Downing said he couldn't believe the official had missed that. When you see that it is the decisive goal, it is sickens everybody".
To be fair, I can certainly accept that there may *not* have been any intent; it's perfectly possible, even though Suarez's history suggests otherwise. However, the problem with the rabid pro-Suarez brigade is that they are pigheadedly unwilling to accept any possibility that he *may* have intended to use his hand, and when faced with that accusation, they fall back on the usual 'Suarez is the victim' cobblers.
Having viewed the incident from several angles, it could be argued that it was ball to hand, not hand to ball:
* Suarez's hand comes *down* towards the ball. Am I wrong?
* Why would he move his hand towards the ball in the situation?
* Why didn't he just move his hand *away* from the ball?
There will be the usual pro-Suarez hysterics who defend him no matter what, but given his history, is not highly probable that there was an element of intent? Consider, for example:
* Handball against Ghana in the World Cup. Suarez's reaction:
"The Hand of God now belongs to me. Mine is the real Hand Of God. I made the best save of the tournament. Sometimes in training I play as a goalkeeper so it was worth it"
* Deliberate handball against Southampton a couple of weeks ago, for which he received a yellow card. It came from almost the same position as the Mansfield incident:
* Suarez's comments from last season, when he admitted he would happily use his hand in a Liverpool game if it meant a win for the team:
"The sacrifice I made [against Ghana] was because it was so important for Uruguay to make the semi-finals. If I am obliged to stop a ball in the last minute and we win, then I will repeat the action. Success for Liverpool is more important to me than anything else".
So, let's consider the evidence:
* Suarez deliberately cheats in a World Cup Quarter Final by using his hand.
* Suarez admits in an interview that he'd happily cheat for LFC if it meant a win.
* Suarez tries to score with his hand against Southampton this season.
Despite this persuasive evidence, the Suarez apologists will *still* argue that there's no way Suarez intended to use his hand against Mansfield, and they'll present the usual array of excuses:
* It's the ref's fault for not ruling the goal out.
* It's the linesman's fault for not flagging.
* It wasn't deliberate, it was 'instinctive'
* There was no way Suarez could've avoided touching the ball.
Etc.
Obviously, I don't know for a fact that Suarez intended to handle the ball, but, again, his past history suggests it's definitely possible, and in the absence of fact, the next best thing is persuasive empirical evidence.
Anyone who views the footage objectively will concede that Suarez's hand moved towards the ball. Clearly, he knew he'd handled it into the net, but he said nothing to the referee about it. The Uruguayan even completed his usual goal celebration afterwards (!)
To add insult to injury, Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers did not even have the decency to apologise for the incident after the game, even though he admitted it was 'definitely a handball'. All he could think about was defending Suarez, and arguing that it 'wasn't deliberate'.
The least Rodgers should've done is apologise to Mansfield for the injustice of the goal, and the fact that he didn't even think to do that (arguably) reflects badly on him, and the club.
I'll leave you with this question to consider: If the roles were reversed, and Mansfield won the game via a blatant handball, would Liverpool fans just magnanimously accept it and move on. Would Rodgers just dismiss it?
Hell no. Fans across the globe would be foaming at the mouth over the injustice of it, and the hysterical overreaction to every contentious decision that goes against the club supports this.
NOTE: Disagree by all means, but please do so in a civil manner. Anyone who hurls insults will be banned.
Jaimie Kanwar
you are obsessed with suarez the guy has been outstanding this season but not one article to praise him but when he makes a mistake in this case not one you jump to write an article condemning him Jeez!!!! leave Suarez alone for Christ sake!!!!
ReplyDeleteGet a life Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteBravo, you have not read the article properly. I have no condemned him. I've presented both sides - I even suggest there may not be intent. My overall point is that past history makes intent probable in this instance. If you can't handle views that differ from your own, perhaps you should go and lie down and calm your nerves.
ReplyDelete“Just because it’s Suarez everyone has a go at him, if the referee doesn’t see it then what can you do?”
ReplyDeleteQuotation from Mansfield's manager.
And what does that prove? He is now the Oracle, and everyone else's opinion means nothing?
ReplyDeleteMaybe he did mean it, maybe he didn't. Still can't believe you responded to " A win is a win" with a Hitler analogy. Ban me if you like, you aren't good enough a writer to continue to follow.
ReplyDeleteThe undeserved 'win' came courtesy of a blatant handball by Luis Suarez. Yes, you have condemned him.
ReplyDeletereally Jaimie you should have been involved in the case of who shot president Kennedy LOL
ReplyDeleteIs anything I've written there not factual?
ReplyDelete* It is an undeserved win.
* It was a blatant handball.
It was a very hollow victory.
ReplyDeleteSuarez could learn from Miroslav Klose.
http://tinyurl.com/c8gzqwl
because its far to easy to blame suarez for cheating..........wheres the fun in accusing officals whose **JOB***it is to spot this....instead of suarez apologizing i think it may be more suitable for the officials to come on tv and apologize to the fans....it wont happen because papers need to sell
ReplyDeleteGood point. I agree that the officials are also culpable.
ReplyDeleteCredit to the Mansfield manager for not jumping on the band wagon:
ReplyDelete"Luis is a fabulous player and has fantastic caliber, his celebration was reactive and was not being cheeky"
"No, it had taken a few deflections, Suarez kicked the ball in frustration as he didn't think the goal hadstood".
"Just because it's Suarez everyone has a go at him, if the referee doesn't see it then what can you do?
I believe that's all you need to hear really
Very telling comments from Paul Cox, Manfield manager:
ReplyDelete“Luis is a fabulous player and has fantastic caliber.” (Reporter – “Have you been cheated out of it?”) “No, it had taken a few deflections, Suarez kicked the ball in frustration as he didn’t think the goal had stood”.“Just because it’s Suarez everyone has a go at him, if the referee doesn’t see it then what can you do?”
Today must have been a godsend to you jamie, just knew you,d be straight online slaggin luis off again
ReplyDeleteThey're only 'telling' because they reinforce your own view. If Cox had slated Suarez, you'd be on his back right now. Funny how quotes people agree with are always lauded and put on a pedestal.
ReplyDeleteWhy is your coverage of cheating mainly associated with Suarez? When in nearly every match nowadays there's some form of cheating happening (you can't blame viewers for questioning ur views ).im not condoning cheating ,just merely intrigued as to why u go to great lengths when it comes to Luis (gareth bale cheats in nearly every game,but not a peep from u regarding this...the footage above is in slow motion.if u review it in real time,I cannot see (without rosé tinted glasses) how is can be labelled blatant...
ReplyDeletelet me quote JOHN BARNES too:
ReplyDelete" You can see Luis didn't really celebrate, it's not his fault the referee hasn't seen it. Luis didn't think he had scored as he just kicked it in frustration".
the worlds not perfect im afraid ...to vilify someone over this incident is borderline hysteria....shit happens ...it is what it is........i can roll of the superlatives..........we would have won the cup if ronaldo hadn't got rooney sent off .....the point im making is its a game ..some decisions you get some you dont...whats amusing is soon as it happened i knew there would be a Spanish inquisition by all and sundry over the morality of suarez ...
ReplyDeleteWhere have I slagged him off? I've given a reasoned argument - with concrete examples - outlining why people might think Suarez did it deliberately. I didn't just write a diatribe about how Suarez is the devil.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, do you even have interest in interpreting stuff fairly, or do you have anything to add to the debate?
I'm not going to waste time arguing with someone who posts such inaccurate stuff. If you'd done some rudimentary research, you'd know I highlight all cheating, LFC and other teams. (Ask any regular poster).
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, for the benefit of yet another person who clearly can't comprehend things properly, nowhere in the article do I label Suarez a 'cheat' over this incident.
Ah, I see. Barnesy did a 'Being John Malkovich' and entered Suarez's body and had access to his thought process.
ReplyDeleteThe best, and most balanced, view on the goal is from their manager. Probably a good idea to read his comments.
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Controversy? The referee said it was ball-to-hand, the fourth official said it was ball-to-hand, the opposing manager said it was ball-to-hand. Where is the controversy? Ball-to-hand is OK, hand to ball isn't. End of story, end of controversy. Let's find somebody else to bash
ReplyDeleteoh contraire Jaimie ** CHEATING IS IN HIS BLOOD ** is hardly the kind of glowing reference id want on my curriculum vitae
ReplyDeleteLet's be fair, Jaimie. Marriott goes on to say the following:
ReplyDelete"But it happens. It's football, I don't think you can call him a cheat. I know a lot of people have done in the past."
"It's just a natural reaction sometimes for people to put their hand out."
"Every
man, from a Sunday League football team to the Premier League is going
to do that, and if it gives you an advantage and you can get away with
it, then unfortunately that's football."
Well that means u did it too, cause on the fb page you telling everyone that he deliberately cheated =)
ReplyDeleteYet another sensationalist article deliberately designed to get hits for the website. Keep it real JK, you really don't have to resort to such cheap tricks. Every commentator including the Mansfield manager has defended Suarez so this really is a non article and makes you look very silly indeed, something I know from reading the majority of your articles I know you are not.
ReplyDeleteLikewise they were presumably omitted from your article as the quotes from the keeper reinforce _your_ view.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if he intended to handle, nor do you. It's entirely reasonable that he did so (based on WC and quotes thereafter), but past performance does not guarantee future results. His reaction after putting the ball through, i.e. kicking out in resigned frustration, apparently in anticipation of the linesman's whistle, suggests to _me_ that it was unintentional.
Typical anti suarez attitude. If wayne rooney did it in a world cup semi against germany no one would have a problem. Not one mention about the ref not spotting it or the linesman.
ReplyDeleteBefore you write this Immature drivel, consider the whole picture and write it objectively, you virgin.
He also said that if their striker would have scored a similar goal they would have taken it..I don't agree with diving/ deliberate handballs etc but unfortunately that's football.its a results business and 99% of players would do the same.
ReplyDeleteYou just lost 5% of your viewers on this site because im not coming back!!!theres one thing being unbiased but theres another thing in being unsupportive...
ReplyDeleteBy the way Jaimie, I'd like to know how u came to decide to quote only the Mansfield goalkeeper and not their manager ?
ReplyDeleteI'm with you on this one. No one is saying suarez isn't a top class player and he does great things for liverpool on the pitch, But he does not have a track record for this kind of thing. Also would people defend rooney if he gets the winning goal next week in the same fashion. I think you will have 99% of the comments on here calling him a cheat. In my view you can tell by the way he acts after scoring he knew what he did. It was not his normal running to the fans in joy celebration.
ReplyDeleteSame old Jamie - It was clearly ball to hand. You play to the whistle, simple as that. You are a pretty bigoted bitter guy.
ReplyDeleteJaimie you are off your fuckin head !!!!!!! All you ever do is bitch about liverpool and you're supposed to be a fan!!! go ahead and ban me you mug!!!!!!! You are a fuckin joke!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteSuarez was laughing because he thought he was going to be pulled up over the handball, he wasn't laughing at Mansfield town, it's player's or supporter's who by the way were wonderful and i personally thought a draw was a fair result and let them come to the home of the 5 times European champion's.
ReplyDeleteIt is instinctive of every footballer especially striker's to use the hand a bit every now and then, i mean remember the once greatest player in the world (nominated by our pundit's and media) who knocked England out of the world cup with "THE HAND OF GOD", but let's forget that eh. let's concentrate on vilifying Suarez that you so do every chance you get,
let's ignore Cox's statement on Saurez's so called handball as he said "if it was one of our lad's we would have taken it", so don't let's call him a cheat, he is a wonderful talent that we should all embrace.
One thing you have to accept when a team such as Mansfield play premier opposition is that the players & staff are thrust in the limelight and make hasty, Ill advised comments. It was rapid ball to hand that awarded Suarez the opportunity and I suppose he could have stopped and picked it up, But what a berk he would have looked like then - The officials failed. Storm in a teacup because its LS I am afraid.
ReplyDeleteThat works both ways Jamie! Which is why you have opted to quote the goalkeeper and not Paul Cox.
ReplyDeleteridiculous reply
ReplyDeleteSimple: The keeper was the closest player on the pitch to what happened. His view carries more weight that Mansfield's manager, who couldn't have seenbthe incident clearly from the touchline.
ReplyDeleteJamie,you never disappoint if Suarez is in spotlight. You always find something against him that others don't see (this time that he moved his hand towards the ball) and always have at hand the inquisition-type of conclusions this time that if he deliberately handled once he deliberately handles on each and every ocassion).
ReplyDeleteIn the speed of the deflections any movement is instinctive and can't be controlled. The way Suarez netted the ball shows clearly that he expected the referee spotted the hand ball and was in fact surprised that the goal counted. Anyway, do you think other EPL players would stand up and protest? If yes, would you please name a few.
Of course I can't speak for Bryan, but I've been long saying that you somehow (instinctively/reflex) do things like the Ghana handball and today's incident when you play the game. It happens, at all levels and I for one find it very welcoming that those guys from Mansfield (their manager and their keeper) came out saying just that. That is honesty for a change, unlike what we get from the Fergusons and Pulis' of this world (and most of the press of course) who portray themselves as whiter than white and point the finger at Suarez. Not all managers are like that and kudos to Moyes for blaming one of his own for a dive after the derby.
ReplyDeletewho cares suarez would continue to be criticised,intentional or not they would slate him any chance they get..do you think if a mansfield player did this anybody would care???peter crouch against city was far worse where was the press then just a bunch of xenophobic twats
ReplyDeleteThat handball against Ghana was such that EVERY player woulg have committed. When you're playing at the World Cup and there's a slightest chance to win, you'll do just what you have to do to save your team. It's hypocrit to say something else.
ReplyDeleteAnd Jaimie, you said Suarez cheated at the World Cup against Ghana. No he didn't. He was sent off ang Ghana got the pen. It's not Suarez's fault that Ghana missed that pen was it?
Why don't you ever call those defenders who put Suarez down at the box and then shout at him that he had dived and show to the ref that they had done nothing, a cheat? I think that they should actually get a yellow or red card.
...and yes Jamie, you are wrong, the movement of Suarez arm down is intended to get out of the way as does the way his arm goes back aftger contact. You are just anti Suarez, ant Bentiez, anti whoever Ickle jamie doesn't like. Have you ever been to Anfield by the way ??
ReplyDeleteImo Jaimie both these statements are down to personal interpretation only and ergo cant be deemed fact...in fact the polar opposites of the statements are indeed actual facts
ReplyDelete* Handball wasnt awarded
*Liverpool won the game
by the way jamie k did not mention this part of mansfield manager post match conference.... as he only adds those stuffs which turns in the side of his own idea
ReplyDeleteLFC YNWA
There are a lot of incidents about cheating such as when the ball crosses the line and the defenders and keeper know it has, but they don't admit it to the Ref. Do you also write articles to condem them? Also the professional foul is no different when bringing someone down who is through on goal and by bringing them down your prepared to be sent off its the same as what Suarez did by stopping the ball crossing the line or what he did today! It's a funny old game and sometimes it goes for you and sometimes it don't. This also pin points that a 15 second replay would have solved this problem but let's remember the fourth official ack it was a hand ball but that it was ball to hand so the officials have done their job.
ReplyDeleteHis view can be false though. There were 2 officials fairly close yet they didn't even see there was a handball
ReplyDeleteI keep on saying "DON'T FALL FOR THE MEDIA HYPE", they need to sell stories, they need TV ratings. Suarez is the man of the moment FACT, Suarez sells newpapers FACT, Suarez is a ratings magnet.
ReplyDeleteAside from the Evra row since he has been in premier League it's all been handbags, i won't be adding anything more on a ball to hand issue, neither will i accept our players officiating football games so i do not want to hear about any moral grounds either.
1 penalty all season springs to mind, you win some and you lose some. Take nothing away from Mansfield they played well and may of deserved better but hey that's football!!!
Whether he meant it or not this would have been the perfect opportunity to win over some of the media and officals in this Country. I am sure it wouldnt have affcted the overall result even if it had meant a replay but it could have been vital to getting some decisions in the Premier league. Dont be suprised if Suarez is fouled in the box against United and doesnt get a penalty. Personally i would rather have an unfair goal ruled out against Non league opposition and get some decisions in the premier league than the other way round. However unlike you Jaimie i wouldnt swap Suarez for any other player in the premier league (except maybe RVP)
ReplyDeleteI haven't vilified anyone and I'm not borderline hysterical. The handball in the lead-up to Suarez's goal takes the shine off the victory, that is all.
ReplyDeleteJk get of the band wagon son, if the opposition manager can accept it then I really think you have no argument
ReplyDeletewhen suarez retires he deserves to have a movie made about his career
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't change the first part of his statement. He's just being diplomatic. The key part of the section you posted is this:
ReplyDelete"if it gives you an advantage and you can get away with it, then unfortunately that's football."
Trying to 'get away with it' implies intention, does it not?
look how close he is to the keeper after the deflection... he must have some super reflexes to able to do that. why do you think his arm moved all the way backwards when the ball struck his hand, if he did it intentionally, he would have put his strength into it and the arm wouldn't have moved backwards. and then he kicks the ball into the net out of frustration because he thinks it's going to be disallowed for handball. and he didnt celebrate like he would if he scored a proper goal, i think he felt a bit sorry for them but who's going to turn down a goal. and if he intended it, his eyes would have been on the ball and sorely on the ball but it wasn't, it was closed. even so, it came so quickly towards him. and his hand was clenched, it would have been outstretched had he intended to handball it.
ReplyDeleteThis is obvious. I can't believe I have to explain this again. Marriott was the closest to the incident, therefore his perception is arguably the most accurate. He *witnessed* it first hand; Cox did not. Standard rules when it comes to eyewitness testimony. In a court of law, the more persuasive eyewitness will be the person right next to the incident, not 30 meters away.
ReplyDeleteIf it was accidental handball what was Suarez supposed to do?
ReplyDelete"Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement"
Yawn JK having another dig i see, Business must be slow on your page so low an behold you bring up the old Suarez Chestnut to get the comments flowing. I know this won't be allowed through the JK filter so lets be honest you're boring the backside of the readers with your anti Suarez drivel. Ur crusade will fail now delete all u will u fool.
ReplyDeleteLeave it haha you are making your self look stupid every comment you write is being slapped down give it up, we play your team on the weekend maybe should concentrate on writing about the mancs absolute turd article
ReplyDeletejamie do you think if a mansfield player did this anybody would care????suarez is controversial but the officials should do what they get paid for next time..did you see the crouch handball when stoke played city,it was far worse and nobody made a big deal of it..anything bad thing suarez does is good news for the press.i dont care if it was intentional or not he wont be the first or the last
ReplyDeleteIt's competitive sport. Why is football now seen as the leading moral guidance in England? Let parents teach morals and be role models, let footballers play football.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, can you read?
ReplyDelete* I didn't say 'Suarez intended it'. I argued that based on recent history, it's possible to argue that it was ball to hand.
* I also state that I can accept that there may *not* have been intent.
I'm not going to waste my time responding to anyone else who can comprehend the article properly. It's not as black and white as you and others make out. You've missed he thread of my argument.
The officials were at the edge of the pitch; Marriot was a matter of inches away. There's no comparison.
ReplyDeleteWhen I seen the handball I said to myself, Jamie will be on his laptop typing away about how much of a cheat Suarez is and blah blah blah!
ReplyDeleteThe Mansfield manager came out and said " “I don’t want to be too hard on him. He is a fabulous talent and we should embrace that, not have a go at him. If the shoe had been on the other foot we’d have taken it."
The game today is full of players trying to get an advantage over the other team. Players trying to gain an extra few feet when taking a free kick for example, or players inching down the line when they are throwing the ball. Players shirt pulling etc etc, it's everywhere Jamie.
Are you for real? Liverpool get knocked out of the FA Cup as a result of blatant handball and the ref does nothing?! Fans would be raging about refereeing conspiracies and how LFC are being victimised etc. We've seen it already this season. I'm amazed you have the chutzpah to even suggest that (!)
ReplyDeletei disagree that it was intentional and that he was bringing his arm down as u can see after it strikes his hand, yes he has previous incidents in which u refer but i may add that at least liverpool have a player willing to whatever it takes to win including handling the ball like he did for uruguay, if u seen gary neville speaking on the mnf at the turn of the year u would have seen him speaking about suarez, bale and ashley young and how team mates encourage players to whatever u can to win at the highest level and that none of us no matter how much we watch and speculate on anything have no idea how emotional it is to be a footballer, i certainly would do whatever it takes to make my day at work easier if some form of cheating was optional!!!
ReplyDeleteI agree everyone would have done it in that situation. And everyone slated him for celebrating when Ghana missed. It was an injustice but Ghana would have done exactly the same
ReplyDeleteWhy not discuss the overall performance rather then Suarez again?
ReplyDeleteI am not saying he did or didn't handball deliberately , but the fact is you ALWAYS make Suarez the main point of an article whenever you can, the fact is if Shelvey had taken 1 of his many chances this incident would be irrelevant but as always the band wagon is passing and your on it...
The overall performance was far from good and I think its more important to highlight that rather then create another Suarez is the devil article, its pretty obvious Jaimie that you have a problem with Suarez and at times it seems like your on a 1 man mission to make him the most hated player in the world, but the overall performance should be looked at just as much as the Suarez incident.
Once again, someone who cannot comprehend the simplest sentences. Show me where in the article I called Suarez a cheat.
ReplyDeleteIt's kind of disturbing that some people can't interpret a written argument properly.
ok then, this post is in response to your post on facebook, which read "Disgraceful handball by Suarez. Blatant cheating. As usual. Who cares though, LFC won, right?"
ReplyDeletenow respond.
also if suarez didn't mean it that means it should have stood. handballs should only count if it's intentional. what happened to ball to hand. for me, it should have stood.
ReplyDeleteWhy should I hail Suarez's performance? The entire game was spoiled by that incident. It's an undeserved victory, and I don't feel happiness that the club beat a non-league team with a handball. That's my view. It differs from yours. Deal with it.
ReplyDeleteThink what you like. I have a gigantic problem with unfair play, cheating etc, not with individuals, and my history on this site proves that. It just so happens that Suarez is constantly involved in questionable incidents.
the replays show the ball hit his hand and his arm ends up behind him. not that he moved his arm in the way of the ball! everybody is always looking at a negative angle to this genius of the game! one mistake does not condemn him. and his attitude about doing anything for the win is vital for a team because it shows where his heart his, for club and country! im sure if anyone else had him in their team they wouldnt be saying this! YNWA
ReplyDeleteMarriner wasn't at the edge of the pitch.
ReplyDeleteAnd what I'l trying to say is that it's not cause you're close that you're right. People in the stands and watching on tv saw the handball yet Andre Marriner didn't.
but sometimes you can be to close to a problem.....if an ant is next to an elephants foot does it see the elephant
ReplyDeleteI think you should just accept defeat on this one Jaimie...
ReplyDeleteYour 'empirical evidence' seems to a neutral to be specifically selected to imply that Suarez is a cheat. But the Ghana example is completely out of context. His comments are based around the fact that he said he would commit the same offence again by stopping the ball on the goal line with his hand. Anyone who has ever played football, at any level, will tell you that in a crucial game they would also do the same if they are honest. In fact, in my time playing (25 years +) and watching the game, I have even seen players producing full length world class diving saves to prevent a goal and get sent off. It does not follow that all these players will intentionally cheat to score with their hands at the other end. Even so, dismissing the idea of 'instinctive' reactions is also flawed because your brain instinctively reacts to a given situation and instructs your body to try and control the ball. This is human nature.
ReplyDeleteHaving watched the footage in real time, I'd also have to say that it really does seem like the ball rebounds extremely quickly and hits his hand, rather than the other way around.
I'm just curious, Jaimie, have you actually played football yourself? This is a non-patronising question but an important one for me.
Jamie weather he did it deliberately or by accident I and most of the support from any team do not give a monkeys, end of the day you play to win , you don't get nothing for coming second I'm sure behind closed doors Rodgers will be patting Suarez on the back saying good job because end of the day we are through to next round, that is football, football is made interesting by decisions seen or not seen by referees bad fouls , penalties , arguments between players, villains like Suarez marradonna , cantona, di cannio these types of players make football interesting without these characters and incidents their would be no talking points and no articles for self righteous idiots like your self to write and no one posting and slapping you down like every one of these posters have done today well done people for putting Jk in his place, Get of the band wagon son ure embarrassing your self and showing exactly what you are a mank
ReplyDeleteYour example deals with two beings with totally different brain capability and massive phsyiological differences. Of course the ant won't see the elephant because it can't perceive it, and it doesn't have the biological tools to sense something that big.
ReplyDeleteMarriott and Suarez are, as far as I can tell, both human beings, so the comparison isn't really credible :-)
Deal with it?? lol... that's a classic to write while sat behind a screen!
ReplyDeleteI was pointing out that as always you ignore the fact that we played sh1te to go after Suarez, still I suppose it makes it easier for you as then you might have to have say something negative against BR or some other player
just face it, you can't take other people's opinions and if they prove you wrong then you either don't reply or you ban them. simple as that.
ReplyDeleteEverybody wants to win not just Suarez..it's unfortunate but that's football. Morality goes out the window. There's far too much at stake. No player is going to turn around and tell the ref to chalk the goal off. I'm sure the Liverpool fans would rip him to pieces if he did and we lost the game..sometimes these decisions go for you sometimes they don't. I could say we've been 'cheated' out of a fair few goals this season with disallowed goals and penalties not being given etc. mansfield deserved a replay in my opinion but I'm not gonna say I'm not relieved the goal stood and we've gone through. Rightly or wrongly it's part and parcel and I'm a Liverpool fan so I'll take any questionable decision we get and moan about any we don't get..that's the life of a fan!
ReplyDeleteEr third line, first paragraph....
ReplyDeleteA blatant hand ball...does that not equate to cheating??
It's not a competition. I have my view, other people can have there's, and that's fine. Why should I just give up my view just because others disagree? That would be fickle. I'm not just going to change my mind because lots of people try and browbeat me into submission. I appreciate everyone else's POV, and they're entitled to their opinions, but so am I.
ReplyDeleteHe should have owned up had the goal chalked off.....donated a years wage to Greenpeace and done a years work for the UN in a warzone
ReplyDeleteYes, deal with it. You're the one attacking my opinion, which you clearly can't handle.
ReplyDeleteAnd please don't presume to know my plans. I tend to write about incidents in games rather than produce match reports, and I'll be addressing certain aspects of the performance in a different article.
And any regular can confirm that I am regularly critical of Rodgers, and other players.
On the LFC website BR says in his post match interview that it was definitely a handball and that he looked over at the fourth official and asked him to which the fourth official said it was not intentional and therefore it stood.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest it soured the match for me. Mansfield played their heart out and were the better team in the second half, to which they deserved a replay at Anfield. Suarez is, and always will be, in the headlines for LFC. He's a terrific player as is shown by his play this season, but he is always at the center of disputes and confrontation.
Is it an honorable thing that he stated that he would cheat for LFC in order to win? Is it sacrificial? I don't know, but this will always be what we deal with, with Suarez as long as he is an LFC player.
In my mind I wanted him to pick up the ball and say "no, that wasn't a goal." But we are not all chivalrous are we? Love him for his skills and abilities as a player, but dislike his decisions sometimes.
I'll repeat something I often post on here.
ReplyDeleteIt's my opinion.
Cheating to me suggests that someone has attempted use subtefuge to subvert the rules, like Maradona's goal v England, Thierry Henry's double handball v Ireland, Messi's handball goal early in his career.
A blatantly obvious handball, such as Suarez's handball v Ghana, is a breach of the rules, punishable by a red card. Or a yellow had it not prevented a goal.
The offender is penalised with a yellow or red card and a direct free kick or a penalty kick.
The exact same penalty for kicking someone. Is everyone who has ever received a yellow or red card for kicking someone also a cheat? NO!!!!
I don't believe that Suarez handled intentionally today. Therefore, it could be argued, no actual offence took place, according to the rules.
The goal is legit.
It appears to me that He kicked the ball not net in frustration as he thought he would be penalised.
Klose deliberately handled the ball into the net, so therefore had something to feel guilty about..... He actually had cheated, he had deliberately and successfully subverted the rules.
Perception of what exactly? I would argue that you get a more accurate view on events from video replays than in the heat of the moment.
ReplyDeleteNo. Blatant means obvious; clear as day; impossibly to deny, which is what happened. It does not imply intent. I don't mince my words; if I was going to call Suarez a cheat I wouldn't used the word cheat, as I have done in the past.
ReplyDelete. When some1 makes a bad tackle in the box and the ref doesn't give a penalty u don't have a big attack on the player who made the tackle but u blame the ref this is the refs fault he should of seen it but he didn't so Suarez got away with it. Just like defenders get away with hacking down players another form of cheating but as its not Luis Suarez who does that type of cheating we won't hear about it will we because every1 jumps on the Suarez hate wagon he did his job he scored the ref didn't do his end of
ReplyDeleteHaha just leave it ure embarrassing your self
ReplyDeleteI am regular.. and I can handle it, its you getting all defensive when people respond to your articles, I pointed out that you have issues with Suarez you respond with "deal with it", and I can presume what I want just as you presume Suarez cheats at every opportunity.
ReplyDeleteHi Luke. Yes, I have played football all my life. I played at youth level in Germany for ESV Wolfenbuttel and Eintracht Braunschweig (ages 9-13); I've played all through my adult life for various teams, and I currently play for two teams in Bristol (One 5-a-side, and one 11-a-side, both in league competitions). I play as a striker/second striker, or a winger mostly.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for Sturridge - his debut goal, quicker than Ba's - has been mainly overlooked in all of the furore surrounding the Suarez incident. We won, move on. To lighten the mood, here's my favourite comedy handball:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB2h1ynKLII
If he does the same against Man U next week will anyone be bothered.
ReplyDeleteI rest my case.
He can imply whatever he wants. That doesn't have to be the truth. We can debate all day long, and all night as well, but we surely won't be able to find out if Suarez did it intentionally. It may look like that from the slow motion pics we can watch time and again, but we will never know for sure. For Suarez it happens in a split second. He doesn't have the time to think about whether to handle the ball or to do something else. This may be an argument for him being a cheat down to the bone, but I stand by what I said before. It happens at all levels of football. Most people who play football can be called cheats if we consider every incident as intentional. Even if we consider most incidents as intentional. I could give you many examples of how people who are usually considered as balanced, intelligent and friendly suddenly go berserk on a football pitch, in training sessions with friends. It is all different when you're on the pitch. We sit here in our comfy chairs and try to judge what's going on in the heat of the action, condemn what one player or another does, but in all honesty, on the pitch most of us turn into some kind of warrior.
ReplyDeleteWRONG! it was ball to hand unless you can prove otherwise, also if i had a £1 for every undeserved win in football i wouldn't need to do the Lottery each week!
ReplyDeleteDON'T FALL FOR THE MEDIA HYPE!!!
Cool! We won... Sturridge scored. Perhaps we were a bit lucky and Suarez perhaps did the handball thing, but luckily the refs were blind enough not to blow it up. Replay at Anfield? Mansfield wouldn't have stood much of a chance there...
ReplyDeleteI'll apologize on BR's behalf if it makes anyone feel better. Sorry Mansfield for the handball. Now lets all hold hands and burn a peace pipe.
Ok blah blah, but fact remains that that pitch was horrible, and Mansfield were playing to the knowledge and strength of their home ground... full marks for that, but had the pitch been better, I believe Liverpool would have been better. Furthermore if Liverpool had a better backline the game would have been somewhat easier. Still, we were the better team and the scoreline reflects that.
A win is a win, now lets hope BR has a good plan to deal with the Mancurians.
That's quite amusing. I get defensive? Nonsense. I defend my point of view, just like *everyone else* does, either here, on other forums, or in life. Just because a person defends their opinion doesn't make them defensive.
ReplyDeleteWhat about everyone defending Suarez; are they all defensive too?
I see you have removed my post I apologise for having an opinion, truth hurts I see
ReplyDeleteyou missed the point jamie,we liverpool fans would be the ones raging about it,the same press bashing suarez wouldnt care less
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteJaimie Kanwar - i will tell you what exactly happened. This is from my own
experience. This will definitely change your mind.
I am left footed player,so once i was playing with my friends in the park
and one of my teammate delivered a through ball cutting the defence with me
beating the defenders and i was then one on one with the goalkeeper.I then
slammed the ball towards the goal but it was near the goallie hands and it
rebounded of him and came towards left side of me but it stuck my hand when i was
moving towards it.This only happened to me because i was thinking of taking the
ball into my chest and push it towards goal but it came so quick that it stuck
my hand and it looked as if i was deliberately trying to hand it.
Now see the .gif of the video you have posted in this article and tell me
what you think, also imagine that it happened thrice the speed of what is shown
in it as thats what happened in real time.
Well your almost admitting suarez is human so we are making some progess...ill see you next session
ReplyDeleteNot that it matters in the end but the only person who knows (I include the goalie in that because adrenalin and a view at high speed with a fraction of a second glimpse is not a conviction that can be relied upon) if the handball was a deliberate is Luis Suarez.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your opinion Jamie, after ball hits his hand u can see his hand moving backwards which looks like to me he was trying to move it away, it deflected on to him from very close range, plus you highlight there keeper as he's on ur side but you don't highlight john Barnes, Kevin Keegan, their manager or the others who gave him the benifit of the doubt, sure any chance to slate him jamie
ReplyDeleteAnd that is why football is in the gutter: apathy, and acceptance of cheating just because it gets your team an advantage. Until, of course, it happens to the team you support, and the hypocrites who celebrated cheating the week before are suddenly foaming at the mouth over the injustice. It's hilarious, really.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if your revulsion to cheating includes standing in front of free kicks while the defence gets in position, or leaning into a defender but not jumping as the ball comes in the air making it appear that the defender has held you down, tugging a shirt during preparation for a corner kick?
ReplyDeleteThere are many examples of tricks to gain an advantage, the instinctive sticking out of a hand is no better or worse than any of them and if this side of the game is so morally repugnant to you then I guess you've never played the game and I suggest you start to write about cricket instead
If you can't post your opinion without hurling derogatory comments then it's not welcome. Stick to the comment policy or don't bother posting at all.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool fans of course would care but it wouldn't even be a story had it been anyone else other than Suarez
ReplyDeleteWell said fella!
ReplyDeletechutzpah ...thats a new one to me jaimie can you expand on it
ReplyDeleteJamie K, Everyone has choice of who they really support and L.F.C are obviously are not yours!! If it's not Suarez, it's the team!! Go slag then team 30 miles down the road that deserves you!! Jesus Christ..End of the day in this cup home or away without your main 11 you ain't going to have it easy so the job is to just get through and get prepared for your team 30 miles don the road...
ReplyDeleteDarren Bent scored against Liverpool with a deflected when Sunderland and Liverpool played in ball and it was counted... why didn't you so called good analyst complain about that after all the fifa rules states that if a goal is scored by the means of any outside object wither intentionally or unintentionally it goal can not count
ReplyDeleteSo... please get a life...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5loeV-_4og
In the 3 asterix points under the video you question the movement of his hand. Incorrectly. He did not move the hand to the ball. The ball hit him on the hand first and only AFTER that he moved his whole arm in an attempt to shield it from the ball (too late of course). Everybody would move the arm in a similar way because it is instinctive.
ReplyDeleteyou do get defensive, I have seen many times when people get into a debate you will threaten to ban them, though lately they get away with a bit more.. lol
ReplyDeleteyou can read my post as it has happened with me, you will know the reason why one does move towards the ball and its looks deliberate.
ReplyDeleteWell, I may have something helpful to say on the matter of ants. An ant which is pretty close to an anteater doesn't really see me, erm, it. The ants actually notice a sticky tongue, but then it is too late for them.
ReplyDeleteShut up about Suarez Jamie you tit, are you a manc or something
ReplyDeletelol
ReplyDeleteYes, there are many forms of cheating, but as with everything else in life, you have to prioritise. IMO, diving, feigning injury, deliberate handballs that either cause/stop a goal and deliberate, violent tackles (i.e. Keane/Haaland), are the worst forms. They damage the game and its reputation far more than shirt pulling etc, and these should be tackled first.
ReplyDeleteSorry Jamie; If someone blatantly handles a ball or tries to hide the fact that they handled the ball, then either way they are trying to cheat.
ReplyDeletesaurez gets a 10 out of 10 for his commitment in everything he does in a red shirt , and he does get kicked off the park most games , he did put his hand down to shake vera's hand , he never intended to handball it today , besides every team would want the same given the same situation, jamie i think you'd be better off following rugby for your fair play
ReplyDeleteNo, I only threaten to ban people when the refuse to abide by the comment policy, i.e. they hurl insults/derogatory comments. That is the *only* time people are banned.
ReplyDeleteYes but your opinion is clearly wrong this time and you know it
ReplyDeleteYes but in case Suarez slips on a banana skin you would write that it is highly probable that he does it deliberately to make a racial insult (because he has such history).
ReplyDeleteit was not sticking out the hand but was instinctively moving your body towards the ball to chest it but the hand moves first so its looks deliberate , read my post.
ReplyDeleteWow a lot of views in here. I dont normally type in here - mainly because I dont normally agree with jaimies viewpoint. I dont on this matter also. But thats the beauty of being a fan - we all have opinions. But they arent facts. the thing that is a fact is that when Suarez scores a goal he kisses his wrist, something which hasnt gotten coverage from the media in all this. I dont believe he deliberately handballed - in the same way that I do believe that his finish was as has been described - a frustrated one when he expected the whistle. the real question here should be not if suarez cheated or not but why the officials didnt see it and blow the whistle? surely THEY should be apologising to mansfield - but tbh in a society that is slightly xenophobic to foreigners that wouldnt sit right with our media.
ReplyDeleteI respect your view jaimie, but dont agree with it. We wont know what was running through Suarez's Head until he's interviewed i guess.
Doesn't take much to insult you does it, I think idiot is hardly a reason to remove a post , if noticed you only seem to remove posts when theirs an opinion you don't like sorry but it's my opinion u are an idiot
ReplyDeleteNot only strikers use their hands. Carra for example has used his hands and arms so much on a football pitch that I thought he may have found a decent career in wrestling, too. (not the US fake wrestling, I'm talking about the sport, Greco-Roman wrestling).
ReplyDeleteI cant reply anymore as ran out of comment space, but I have seen people talk in a mild way and be threatened with been banned, was a while ago but I did see it, and more then once
ReplyDeleteThe thing is you never stand behind your opinions. I believe you think it was a blatant handball with intent and therefore he is a cheat. Yet you always go on about not saying so in your article. People read between the lines and they know what you really mean. On topic. Obvious handball, should have been disallowed.
ReplyDeleteI didn't slate him for celebrating. Only those who rooted for Ghana did (or those against Uruguay).
ReplyDeleteThis is an interesting article. From Graham poll
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2258138/Luis-Suarez-handball-Graham-Polls-verdict.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Football is in the gutter because that's where it's always been.
ReplyDeleteWe allow players to verbally abuse referees on live TV with millions of kids watching - sin binning and retrospective bans, multiple weeks wages fines would resolve.
We allow players to "simulate" even though stern retrospective punishment would eradicate it immediately.
The powers that be do not want to allow technology to be introduced. The mind boggles
Show me where in this article I state 'cheating is in his blood'.
ReplyDeleteGood idea. Is that film about Jari Litmanen out already?
ReplyDeleteAlan Marriott is a great person to quote! He is the person closest to the scene. He is also impartial and has no emotional attatchment to what happenend. Oh wait he's MANSFIELD's goalkeeper! Of course he is going to say Suarez is a cheat. You would also expect the rest of the Mansfield team and their supporters to say Suarez is a cheat. Just like you would expect the Liverpool players and supporters to say Suarez is not a cheat. It is the neutrals who are closest to the scene, I.e. The ref and linesman, whose opinions should matter the most. And when someone who is as close to Manfield as Cox is says that Suarez is not a cheat that should make the issue very clear. P.S. Congrats to Manfield. They made their club proud. Very impressed by the workrate of their central midfielders.
ReplyDeleteClearly wrong in your opinion. Majority verdict does not = correct.
ReplyDeleteNo, blatantly, means unashamedly obvious, carrying the implication of intention. However, if you have misunderstood the true meaning of the word blatantly and actually meant that the handball was obvious, then fair enough.
ReplyDeleteBR accepted that it was obvious. Mansfield's manager accepted it with exceptional grace, but also said he would have been happy to take such a goal if it went his way.
We will never know if Suarez had any real intent to handball, unless he comes out and says so with a lie detector, but a fair point is made about all sorts of fouls that take place in the game and are not always seen by the ref.
Maybe Suarez was due this for the penalties that he should have been given earlier in the season. People call that sort of thing Karma. I just think that good and bad happens and you can't control all of it so have to accept it.
You have criticized BR yet again, so I really think you should now drop the 100% behind BR tag line!
That's how we the Liverpool fans would react. And maybe the Liverpool Echo. But do you honestly think the Mail or Sky would give a toss about it. Their headlines probably wouldn't read "Liverpool unfairly knocked out of cup by cheat/blatant handball" but rather "Abject Liverpool fall at non-league Mansfield".
ReplyDeleteWhat have I done wrong. All my posts are getting moderated now.
ReplyDeletenone can be dealt without use of technology..
ReplyDeleteAgreed - everyone in the stadium, including the officials, saw the handball. I don't think anyone except Suarez will know whether it was a deliberate handball or not - everything happened so fast.
ReplyDeleteBut fact is none of the officials called it. Suarez didn't exactly try to deceive anyone during the play, so if anything blame the refs for making the wrong decision.
The last point on your list should be the top point by a mile. Lets stop dangerous tackles and after that we can look at the trivial stuff?
ReplyDelete"Embarrassing meaningless phyrric victory." Laying it on a bit thick arent you? Call your a supporter? Pathetic. Go support someone else, this clubs not for you.
ReplyDeleteI saw that too, I think its been edited out.
ReplyDeleteYou haven't done anything wrong, and your posts aren't being moderated. The word filter caught a couple of posts. There are about 500 words on the filter, and sometimes it happens. Affects me too quite often.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't make you fickle Jaimie it makes you informed and a reasonable human being. The abilities to listen, reason deduce and perhaps change your mind is the mark of a good debater. To blindly stick to your own opinion when reasoned evidence is presented is an ostrich with it's head in the sand stance. Let's be straight JK i believe imo that your mind was already made up about Suarez long b4 this incident.
ReplyDeleteIt was never in the article. It has not been edited out. He probably saw a comment like that on the site's facebook page.
ReplyDeleteHandballs.....
ReplyDeleteOffensively, to get away with one, you have to subvert the rules. Do it covertly. Connive. Con. Cheat
Defensively, you are not kidding anyone. They are usually blatant, and you usually get penalised with a red card and a penalty kick against you.
If fouled against team cannot muster one reliable taker to convert it then tough titties in my opinion.
It is a selfless act, where a player sacrifices himself for the good of the team, in a professional environment where winning or losing can decide if you colleagues remain in a job.
Chivalry or honour have nothing to do with keeping your team in the football league for example, and the old dear of a tea lady in her job. Extreme example but it's a cut throat, professional world.
The very nature of competitive football, all the way from top schoolboy teams, to county teams and upward mean that winning is EVERYTHING.
Without an almost maniacal will to win, I doubt players like Tevez, Suarez etc could have come through all the trials and hurdles to arrive at their current positions.
This is just one opinion. Just because I don't change my mind about this doesn't mean I don't on other things. Is anyone else on this thread changing their view on Suarez? No. Why is I'm the only person expected to change?
ReplyDeleteFor practically everything I post, people seem to want me to do a 180 and change my mind. That's not how it works.
Maybe as I cant be 100% it was in the article but I did definitely see that written
ReplyDeleteSpot on...that's exactly what would happen..Suarez is no angel but there's complete double standards
ReplyDeletetake the critque as u giv it jamie and move on ur wrong .... u can be wrong u kno its the refs falt not the players
ReplyDeleteMan I wish Luis would have headed that ball in the WC vs Ghana...instead of hand balling it. I wish he would have been able to think that fast....like a super hero. I also wish he had not celebrated afterwards either.
ReplyDeleteHowever....that play did not cost Ghana NOR win it for Uruguay. The Player missed the Free Kick. Ghana missed two 2 penalty kicks...afterwards. Heck you want excuses...prior to that handball....the Ghana player Dived....blatant dive. The ITV commentator stated prior to the free kick "If Uruguay loses as a result of the free kick, it would be controversial. FIFA was supposed to clamp down on diving." Irony? Ironic? Very much so.
And if we’re worried about cheaters, then how come no one is upset that in the England-Germany game, the German goalkeeper did not acknowledge what he knew to be a legit goal, until after the game when the result could not be changed. No one has tagged him as a cheat; however, if that were to happen in a schoolyard, we know what the kids would be calling it.
I do not blame you for writing the article Jamie..... but I do not think this was blatant like the last one or the WC one at all..... but it is annoying that out of all the people the ball finds...it's him.
Should the goal have stood? No - it was clearly a handball that gave the culprit an unfair advantage; some could argue ball-to-hand, but the fact that it lead to a massive advantage (ie/ a goal) obviously overrides the ball-to-hand argument.
ReplyDeleteDid he cheat? No one can say except Suarez - I'd give him the benefit of the doubt as things happened so fact and I'm an LFC supporter, but that makes me bias. But I don't think he 'deceived'. The handball was in the view of everyone, including the officials and if there was doubt the reaction of the players should have made it obvious. And he wasn't trying to sell something that wasn't (ie/ diving in hopes that the ref sees it as a foul).
TBH, I was surprised that it took Jaimie so long after the match to post this article - I was waiting for it ever since the incident. I know you're passionate about your view on cheating and it's a sensitive topic in relation to Suarez, but judging by the number and nature of responses you've made to threads on this topic I just hope that you don't have a heart attack - I like your articles (well, most of them), don't want them to stop :).
Jamie, a very honest question. Did you read or hear Paul Cox (Mansfield Manager) on the matter?
ReplyDeleteThat is all.
So you actually think Cox was basing his comments on his view from the touchline and not a video replay?
ReplyDeletey dont u hav a reply to my the ref made the mistake not suarez.???
ReplyDeleteare you actually a liverpool fan jaimie or do you just enjoy writing negative comments all the time? Yeah it wasn't a good moment and his history doesn't work in his favour but that doesn't mean you should hang him out to dry. Does he not deserve the benefit of the doubt for a change? This is a guy who plays right on the cusp of what is allowed in the game but he should've had countless penalties this season, he had a ban of 8 games last season when the "England captain" did the same and got a 4 game ban and people make him an easy target just like you're doing right now! How can you seriously suggest that he handled the ball on purpose taking all those things into account that he's said or done before when the bal cannons back at him in less than a second...get a grip! And who in their right mind would say that had happened - i wouldn't and neither would any true winner!
ReplyDeleteGoal shouldn't have stood but the bigger disgrace was jon champion and chris waddle calling him a cheat.
at 7.11 in reply to Mitzu ..on the confirmed line up post....... and i quote '' its in suarez blood to cheat "" feel free to check im not particlary trying to catch you or other posters out but when im presented with willy wonkers golden ticket i cash it in
ReplyDeleteSo if you can quote someone only inches away, what makes you think anyone wants to read the tripe you write from miles away. Your story is irrelevant, may have been deliberate but hen again may not, and you wrote a whole article on that wow. Goal stands Liverpool won 2-1. What i would say is what a magnificent gesture the 96 empty (reserved) seats were. Well done Mansfield.
ReplyDeleteJamie you claim your article isn't branding Suarez a cheat yet many of your responses to people's posts in this thread clearly show that you are branding him a cheat.Graham Poll (You ever heard of him?) and Paul Cox have both come out and defended the lad both suggesting it was unintentional,Suarez didn't try to deceive or cheat anyone, watch his reaction to scoring,he was clearly unsure if the goal was going to stand and looked just as surprised as everyone else in the stadium that it stood. Your contradictions are laughable mate,I think I'll take the opinions Poll and Cox over any of a wannabe journalist perched high on his pedestal looking down on us mere mortals.And being upset over winning in such controversial doesn't bother me one bit considering the countless disgusting decisions that have gone against us this season.We won live with it.
ReplyDeleteits because your talking a lot of chutzpah as always LOL
ReplyDeleteProbably Jk because you seem to take a highly negative view on Suarez, You have in previous posts stated you did not like his "cheating" and that was contradicted by the fact that everyone who plays football including LFC legends cheat to gain advantage.
ReplyDeleteYou might not like the guy but the fact is he is the best player we have, he gives 100% always, we'd be big trouble without him and i accept that with his high level of determination he crosses the line but there isn't another manager or club in the EPL who wouldn't have him in their team in the morning. Bravo Suarez keep up the good work. YNWA
Gilstrap - That is in THIS article, is it?
ReplyDeleteThat my friend is football, playing the rules is as important as playing the other team. it has happened since the game began and will forever be a part of the game.
ReplyDeleteThe referee SAW it. And decided it wasn't deliberate, as the ball bounced up at Suarez from so close. (This has just been CONFIRMED on ITV).
ReplyDeleteIn the original commentary, John Champion mentioned that "Mansfield believe it's handball." So even HE didn't see it. It was only after the replay that he started bandying words like "cheat" around. Which is plain wrong.The Mansfield manager showed a bit of class, unlike the goalie who will no doubt be chuntering about the incident in pubs for years to come.Yes. I'm an enabler.
where all in the gutter jaimie its just that some of us are looking at the stars.......a few wise and profound words Jaimie and i know its sunday but its time to step down from the pullpit and let sense and reason prevail
ReplyDeleteYou watch the Daily Mail go. They won't let this one lie, especially with our next opponents looming....
ReplyDeleteCan't wait!!!!!
Like ive stated it was in the previous article regarding he line up...if you have changed your standpoint from then i respect your decision to do so...after all its a free world
ReplyDeleteYes fans may rage if that was the case but they would not target the player the way Suarez has been it would be more the officials. The goal ruled out against Everton didn't receive this much attention.
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't a blatant handball, you have said this yourself.
The more I look at it the more it looks ball to hand. If it was ball to hand do you still think the goal should have been disallowed (according to the laws)?
When Phil Neville did a blatant dive in the merseyside derby the pundits in the sky room just had a jolly good laugh about it - i.e it was clumsy, its against his nature etc There is a double standard at play here - I dont think he intentionally did it - there is no conclusive proof either way but one must always give benefit of doubt to him or any other player in this situation because the other road is one of negativity. We can see from the fact that he despondently kicked the ball into the net that he didnt think he would get it - but the ref didnt think it was intentional and awarded it.
ReplyDeleteI feel there is racism at play in the innuendo that Suarez suffers from. The itv commentator was out of order for his labelling him a cheat because im sure he would never have employed these adjective for a british player - why because british players are genetically fair and south americans arent?
My defence of Suarez has nothing to do with what he has done for us - its purely giving each human the benefit of doubt in this type of situation - unless he comes out and says i blatantly handled the ball.
I have no idea whether the Suarez hand ball was deliberate. No-one except Suarez does. It all happened very quickly.
ReplyDeleteHas Suarez been involved in dubious incidents in the past? Yes.
Is Suarez a great player capable of genius on the field? Yes.
Should the officials have spotted the hand ball? Yes.
All I can say is that from a personal point of view, even as a Liverpool supporter I felt pretty bad inside and sorry for Mansfield after the goal and I think some of the players on both sides felt the same - the game went flat for a period afterwards.
In some ways, looking at the game, although Liverpool should have been out of sight at half time, Mansfield really shocked us for a decent period of the second half straight from the whistle. I personally applaud them for their second half performance and feel they deserved a money spinning replay at Anfield for their second half efforts. They could easily have scored at least 2 or 3 goals themselves.
Now I am a Liverpool supporter and a Suarez supporter but I got the impression that around the time Suarez was slamming the ball into the net, there was something about his demeanour that suggested to me he was fully expecting the referee tio blow up or the linesman to flag and rule out the goal.
It would be nice to live in a world where if the handball was deliberate (and I have only said I dont know if it is) that Suarez would have stopped play himself and NOT booted the ball into the net - didn't Fowler not try and convince a referee that Seaman or another Arsenal player did not foul him for a penalty some years ago? My opinion is though that as great a magician Suarez is on the pitch, if the handball was deliberate he would have still slammed the ball into the net because he does have a win at all costs mentality.
Ask yourself one question -
Did you feel good about/after Liverpool's 2nd goal?
Graham Poll-"To
ReplyDeletebe clear, Suarez sees the ball rebound from the Mansfield Town
goalkeeper, Alan Marriott, and tries to get his arms out of the way; the
ball hits his right arm and drops kindly for the striker to tap the
ball into the empty net." What Macclesfield purposely did to that pitch the night before the match was 10 times worse than Suarez accidentally handling the ball. Why not write an article about that?
Their manager says Suarez didn't do anything wrong so all this is pointless.
That is amazing. You say it is possible to argue that it was ball to hand, and you can accept that there may *not* have been intent. So you have wrote an article about nothing. Journalism/blogging at it's best.
ReplyDeleteOh and by the way i think in your 1st * item you mean hand to ball ie intent. Not ball to hand.
Also what you could have done is some physics and worked out if it was physically possible given ball speed, distance travelled, reaction time to be hand to ball (ie deliberate)
John Terry was blocking goals with his arms for years. No one ever called him a cheat. Jon Champion should be ashamed of himself.
ReplyDeleteCorrect.
ReplyDeleteAnd the follow up question is this - why do the powers that be not want technology introduced or punishments that would come down on all the foul play - hmmm perhaps that is what they want...
Someone has been banned for 'liking a derogatory comment'??!!
ReplyDeleteWow, didn't realise there was some kind of thought police on here.
So if you disagree with anything here you can expect to be belittled, ridiculed, abused and then banned at any point with no recourse.
Wonder if quite a few people might want to 'go elsewhere' of their own accord.
Well, well,
ReplyDeleteant's and elephant's eh, Stephen Hawkings has taken over this site (probably get more sense if he did),
My heart sank when I watched the game an saw this incident, not because it was handball but because of the backlash it would cause and I knew would come. If it had been any other player, people would just say "oh it was handball an the ref missed it"
ReplyDeleteI also knew you would not be far behind jumping on the slaughter Suarez bandwagon. It was handball, of that there can be no doubt, but I certainly did not see him laughing as you report the goalie said he did. I also honestly believe Suarez did not believe for one minute the goal would stand, he was as surprised as everyone when the ref gave it. He actually appeared upset with himself for miss controlling the ball when he sulkily slammed it into the net. I think if you play it frame by frame it is clear his hand was incidentally where it was when the ball struck it, he even looked like he was trying to get it out of the way, we have to remember that in real time it happened quickly. It is very easy for us to sit in judgement and call it cheating, but in reality it is no worse than many other incidents that occur in the game. To brand him a cheat, you must then look at the Joe Allen incident where the ball hit him on the arm, or Robinson when he handled while falling on the ball, or indeed Jamie C where the ball came off his thigh an hit him on the arm, using your logic they all cheated. The real injustice is that no officiating person saw it, and gave a free kick. Jamie these things happen in football, it's part of the game, many injustices occur every single week, it's just Suarez has become the modern day scapegoat labelled as all that is wrong with the game. It was handball, nothing more, get over it and move on, I feel you should thank Suarez because with out him you would have very little to write about.
headline: SUAREZ HAS BEEN PLAYING VOLLEYBALL ALL WEEK TO PREPARE FOR UNITED!
ReplyDeleteYou're backtracking pretty quickly there Jamie on facebook you were ripping into Suarez like he murdered somebody. Seems you wrote before you looked at the Suarez handball case closely, just like all the media does. I'd expect better from a Liverpool fan to at least look at everything before calling him a cheat (which you did on facebook)
ReplyDeleteObviously it was Suarez :p
ReplyDeleteThank god folks don't get a guilty verdict based on probability, to suggest he "probably" may have intended it is ludicrous. I didn't see you write "he probably didn't intend it"
ReplyDeleteYou actually weight the argument he probably did, that is biased opinion, to then argue you suggest otherwise is nonsense.
Jamie get over it for crying out loud, if Cox can see it for what it was, then why can't you?
ReplyDeleteTo say and I quote " if Cox had slated Suarez" is nonsense, because he didn't did he , if anyone put that kind of argument to you in a response you'd laugh your head off because it never happened did it and you can't base your argument on what someone might have said just because it suits you.
Technically, that handball won me 8 quid in a workplace sweepstake, so I was celebrating too.
ReplyDeleteYou're a fucking joke.. I don't even care if you block me for good because I no longer plan to read your shit. He moved his hand behind his back. It was not intentional and you could tell he didn't mean it by the way he kicked the ball into the net and didn't even celebrate. It's not his fault the ref made a horrid mistake.
ReplyDeleteBALL TO HAND!! so chill out JK rowling with your fantasy fixation with all that is evil with our genius no.7!
ReplyDeletePredictable and no originality - a better thread of discussion would have been how ace we were in the first half, sturridge looking the part !??
Suarez has a history of such behaviour and while it isn't right for the media to go on a witch hunt, he doesn't help by constantly putting himself in similar situations. There's no doubting his commitment to winning (for himself and Liverpool) but it is embarrassing for the club (and fans - not all though, it clearly seems) to have to resort to questionable methods to win.
ReplyDeleteThe main result of this situation now is that the team we're facing next week will seize on it and begin their call for match officials to penalise us for everything. Vicious cycle.
Jamie this is not a court of law.
ReplyDeleteJamie, All those watching it on tv witnessed it, did you see Suarez laughing, because I didn't. None of the replays I've seen show him laughing
To me it was ball to hand, however I`m sure he knew it hit his hand, so yes in a perfect world he should have owned up, but I can`t think of a single footballer in the world who would have. It was a shame for Mansfeild who played very well, and credit to them for not only the seats, but also for how there manager acted after.
ReplyDeleteno you label him probably a cheat lol
ReplyDeleteMansfield boss Paul Cox was ‘gutted’ by the Suarez goal.
ReplyDeleteHe said: “I think we warranted something out of the second half. We’re a little bit gutted.
“You can replay the second goal time and time again.
“But it was instinctive and he didn’t do anything wrong.
“Suarez blasted the ball into the net and I don’t think I want to be
too critical. If the boot was on the other foot, I would have accepted
it.
“When you have officials at that level there were two blatant handballs we could have been awarded.
“But we should embrace Suarez as a football talent rather than have a go.
“He didn’t celebrate, he blasted the ball into the net as if it
didn’t matter. He did what any striker would have done. I can’t be
two-faced on that.”
YNWA Luis
The goalie's view of the incident could also be deemed as flawed and unreliable since it would be biased. Him being the closest doesn't make him the ideal eyewitness, as the whole article and debate raging is speculative at best. Only one person knows whether it was intentional or not and I bet he's sleeping soundly in his bed not having bad dreams.
ReplyDeleteundeserved win isn`t factual Jamie, its just a view. Personally I think a draw would have been the correct result in terms of play, so while I agree with your view, it still aint a fact.
ReplyDeleteIt is worth noting, in a previous article Jamie made a list of penalties given and pointed out, that there isn`t a bias against Liverpool as we had still got a lot (for last season I think). The bases was, if I remember rightly, that because the Ref`s call is all you can judge a situation on, cases which look like pens but weren`t given could not be used. I would then say this is the same surely Jamie? If the Ref didn`t give it, it was ok???
ReplyDelete