11 Sept 2012

'Ridiculous!' - Angry Aldo accuses Rafa, KD, RH + GH of '80%' failure. Harsh?

True or false: Over the last 22 years, Liverpool have spent more on transfers than both Manchester United and Arsenal. Impossible, right? Wrong. It's true, yet despite the lower spend, United and Arsenal have won 15 league titles between them, whilst Liverpool have won none. The Reds have wasted an embarrassing amount of money on dross since 1990, and Anfield legend John Aldridge has called for major improvements to the club's scouting network.

Discussing the club's transfer policy on LFC TV last night, Aldo expressed his frustration over the 'ridiculous' amount of money money splurged on 'poor' players over the years. He observed:

"Over the last 12 years or so, scouting should've been a lot better. 80% of the players brought in have not been good enough to play for Liverpool, and some of them haven't been good enough to play for the reserves!

"Going back to Gerard Houllier's days, We've paid extortionate prices for players. The money we forked out on players was ridiculous, and they were very very poor. We've got to get better value for money"


Looking at the transfer spending figures for the last 21 years, you can see Aldo's point:

LFC vs. MUFC: Transfer Spending 1990-2011 - Grand Totals

Liverpool vs. Manchester United - Transfer Spending comparison - 1990-2011 - Grand Totals

LFC vs. AFC: Transfer Spending 1990-2011 - Grand Totals

Liverpool vs. Arsenal - Transfer Spending comparison - 1990-2011 - Grand Totals

LFC have outspent both United and Arsenal during the Premier League era and the Reds are STILL struggling to catch up with both clubs. This mismanagement intensified under Benitez and Dalglish, and FSG also contributed to it with their staggering willingness to rubber-stamp inflated transfer fees.

In my view, over the last 12 years, Liverpool have bought almost 120 first-team players, and only the following have been worth the money (IMO):

Houllier

* Sami Hyypia
* Stephane Henchoz
* Dietmar Hamann
* Gary McAllister
* Markus Babbel
* Nick Barmby
* Jari Litmanen
* John Arne Riise
* Jerzy Dudek
* Steve Finnan
* Emile Heskey
* Milan Baros

Rafa Benitez

* Xabi Alonso
* Luis Garcia
* Jose Reina
* Mohamed Sissoko
* Peter Crouch
* Daniel Agger
* Dirk Kuyt
* Robbie Fowler
* Álvaro Arbeloa
* Javier Mascherano
* Lucas Leiva
* Fernando Torres
* Yossi Benayoun
* Martin Skrtel
* Maxi Rodriguez
* Raheem Sterling
* Jonjo Shelvey

Roy Hodgson

* Raul Meireles

Kenny Dalglish

* Luis Suarez
* Sebastian Coates
* Craig Bellamy

I make that around 25% of the club's purchases since 2000. Pretty poor really, but with a new scouting network currently being implemented at the club, hopefully things will improve over the next few years.

Note: I haven't included Brendan Rodgers's signings as there's no way to know at this stage if they're worth the money.

Jaimie Kanwar


88 comments:

  1. Roy Hodgson signings:
    Paul Konchesky, Christian Poulsen, Raul Meireles Brad Jones, Danny Wilson & Joe Cole

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  2. For every 1 player we signed there are 2 fails. We have wasted so much money on average players.

    Glad to see that BR is trying to rectify the problem.

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  3. We seem to have had 'Mug' written on some of the transfer papers or something because we do always seem to get ripped off, and then teams like Spurs will get VDV for, what was it £8million? I just dont understand, I bet if we had gone for VDV we would have paid double. There has been something seriously wrong with how transfer are done at Liverpool. I just hope it will get sorted now.
    My worry is that everyone now knows Liverpool want a striker, so they will try and hold them to random.

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  4. Yea that sounds about right.
    I could be wrong on this, but im pretty sure nearly every signing we make leaves the club for less than we paid. So we make little or no profit on them. I can only think of Torres, Alonso who were more. Was Mascherano?

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  5. only RM worth the money spent

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  6. I think Sander Westerveld was signed by Houllier, too, and did considerably well for a period of time. Think he has five medals to his name, so he can't be all that bad. He then got worse/his form dipped, just like Reina, whom you consider a good buy.

    Also Vladimir Smicer wasn't a bad player at all. He was extremely unlucky with injuries, but even scored a goal in a Champions League Final. Not too bad either.

    Another player plagued by injuries is Harry Kewell, who is/was, apart from his injury record, a very fine player.

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  7. Aldo is right we have wasted millions . When you see it in black & white
    it really is a disgraceful way to run a business, i blame one man for
    ruining LFC & Littlewoods ie David Moores, as soon as he took over
    both businesses they both nosedived . But now lets hope BR with the
    help of FSG can turn it around. Wether the squad is strong or good enough, is the burning question . Time will tell ......

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  8. You're right about Westerveld -good shout. I like smicer, but apadt for the CL final, he arguably didn't deliver value for money consistently. Agree Kewell wa a good player, but not value for money IMO.




    Sent from Samsung Galaxy Note

    -------- Original message --------
    Subject: [liverpoolkop] Re: Anfield icon blasts: 80% of LFC's players 'not good enough'. Harsh or fair? | Liverpool-Kop.com

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  9. lol JK you absolutely love these specific tables...

    You should write a book called the "JK Liverpool-Kop Bible" and those tables should be in there somewhere as an important chapter!

    Rogers 12 -17
    "The path of the heavy spending manager will be quashed from this day forth, and those who attempt to poison my brothers will know my name is JK!!!! when I lay my tables, graphs and stats upon thee!"

    Hahaha go forth buddy

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  10. We signed him for £19.8M and sold him for £17.6M. At the same time he become one of the worlds best in that position.

    In today's money he would have gone for £40M easy.

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  11. I agree with you. We have missed out on so many top players. What annoys me is that for a long time our transfer dealings have been late. And we seem to ignore talented players from lower leagues.

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  12. Just dropped my tea cup on my keyboard! This made me laugh haha! Everyone in the office is looking at me haha!

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  13. these stats ignore Man U and Chelsea's huge wage bill which is the largest drain on a clubs resources.

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  14. Erinque is good an worth the 5-6 mil we spent on him...

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  15. You have worked out your averages wrong when combining 90's and 00's. By just adding together it does not provide a 20 odd year average. Say it was 10m in 90's and 20m in the 00's, the average would be 15m, not 30m.

    Your calculations just emphasize bigger and more dramatic gaps than the truth and is not an accurate reflection.

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  16. he would be even better if he learnt to tackle

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  17. Haha.

    'And I will strike down upon thee with furious vengeance!'

    Yes, I love these tables. Makes for depressing reading, but I feel it's important to ram home the reality of the club's situation, and to show why LFC is in the financial doghouse right now.

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  18. LFC's wage bill is practically the same as United's over the last 10 years, and exceeds United's over the last 22 years.

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  19. Truth... but it seems like the club is making reforms under the new owners, seems to be a step in the right direction.

    On top of that I'm quite impressed with Rogers' signings... bar Borini. A win on the pitch will do us really good now!! Two straight wins would be a blessing in the league right now!

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  20. I believe you are right! Good player.

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  21. Even worse then. What about Rafas Net spend. Rafa was drip fed transfer spends. Look at Man city as they spent little this transfer window because the bought a team in one go. Rafa lacked just one or two extra players in attack, remeber reliant on Torres and Gerrard.

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  22. Kewell was really cheap at 5m.

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  23. Rafa lacked just one or two extra players in attack. Then he bought Aquilani. Dear me.

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  24. Our scouting has been very poor.Mourinho would snub Liverpool due to the quality of our players .He knew he'd struggle to even get CL spot.The overriding quality we should look at must be the technical ability of the players.We should also look at clubs like Porto,Benfica when it comes to scouting South American players.I must say Houllier,Rafa and Dalglish are generally poor judges of talents.

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  25. I actually thought Riera was pretty effective and worth the money till he fell out of favour or was discarded

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  26. Out of those three Rafa probably was the best judge of talent.

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  27. I thought he wasn't very good.

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  28. You also do not state how many purchases we have made compared to Arsenal and Man Ure. As we were buying many players with the cash, Man Utd in particular were bying £30m defenders, midfielders and strikers.

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  29. Stirling and Shelvey are the result of Rafa's work only He desreves the credit.

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  30. No wonder FSG have called a halt to buying older players on inflated wages, they got burn't last summer for the one and only time. Now we will see the policy they wanted initially, moneyball. They trusted Comolli and he blew it big-time, now the youth players will come into the scenario prevailing. People should remember who paid off £240m of debt and invested over £100m last summer, FSG did.

    We have blown shed loads of cash over the years, now it must stop. Under BR and FSG we at least have a plan to develop our own talent, that must be applauded. Yes we have recouped plenty of money under FSG but they have still spent plenty, that is undeniable.

    Does anyone believe they are wrong or that Jaimie is wrong?????, If so how?????. Where are our Premier League titles?, you expect such spending to win at least one?, or not. It depends on who is spending the money, ala Comolli. He told everyone in football FSG had plenty to spend, this is 100% true.

    Look at the commercial success we have seen under FSG, many deals rolling in by the month. Ian Ayre has done a great job in that respect but a Chief Executive is now necessary, to allow him to concentrate on business only. So much is going well under FSG but on the pitch it's a bit bumpy, such is life. Did we expect a huge upturn in form just because we wanted to see one?, maybe yes.

    All in all we must be very pleased with FSG so far, with news on the redevelopment of Anfield getting close. Im sure many of you know the the council are demolishing houses adjacent to the mainstand, allowing FSG to build a hotel, removing any 'right to light' issue's. The council are happy with Liverpool's plans as the area get's a real revamp too, FSG get the planning permission they want. The buzz is a 'football quarter' will be formed on Stanley Park, for matchday activities, used by both LFC and EFC, bars and eateries on a temporary basis will be set-up in a similar way to the Anfield Road end set-up now!!!!

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  31. Houlier and Benitez try to built up LFC with good plan with bring in many quality players.Unlucky they don't have good back up money or support from LFC owners.Roy Hodgson try to fix some sitution,but it look like more to struggle.When Kenny Daglish arrived to Anfield, he add more trouble and bring many british players with overspending payment fee.He destroy LFC only 18 month,and now legend reputation is going brink.With over 110 milion,LFC only can get carling cup and final fa.And now B.Rodgers must clean out the deadwood or passenger at the clubs.The fans need to be patient and try to support what ever happen......YNWA.

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  32. that's the trouble when your try to keep up, i think we've panicked a lot and bought crap since roy evans's time as manager, hopefully we've learnt the lesson, sadly it's a bit late in the day

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  33. wilson was a rafa selection. roy i believe came in afterwards and rubber stamped the transfer. same for jova, and shelvey

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  34. thats a great point.
    the number of players purchased during that period would make for compelling reading. Care to oblige Jaimie

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  35. Guys ,we should all come down and stop listening plunkers like Aldo; to include Rafa's spending in this is simply stupid - during his entire tenure we were 5 th on overall spending behind the likes of Chelsea,man u,spurs,. The best example was 30 mil spend on berbatov by man u ,when all we could afford was Keane at 20 mil ,who by the way was not even Rafa's choice ,but we could all see the gulf in spending power - we had to buy scraps really and even then ,Rafa managed to find real gems such as ,alonso,reina,agger,skrtel,Lucas,Torres,arbeloa,masccerano and few others ,all of the above are world class players in their respective positions and the number of players that he was not given the money for, is just simply shocking and that includes bargain buys at the time such as Bale,Jovetic,Adam Jonson among the others. He never had proper support and those of you that still believe that he was rubbish surely now having to eat your words and chock on them . From being ranked number 1 in Europe for 3 consecutive years now we have a realIty check and if you carry on "supporting " our club and the new manager the same way - we will be playing in the championship before long and then ,perhaps maybe Aldo can come and share with us some of his wisdom by working miracles with no money and any idea . Those old players of ours should learn to shut up sometimes and realise that the times moved on ,but they have not.

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  36. I hate those tables. Every time I see them it turns my stomach at the waste we've seen over the years :(

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  37. I definitely agree, we have bought some right crap over the years, remeber Torben Piechnik! oh my god! imagine being a top player thinking we are at liverpool and he turns up!
    I was worried about the lack of people available this year for BR but after reading this and looking back at the amount of crap we have signed I can say the squad may be small but it is full of promise, have faith, we are clearing the decks and building hopefully properly.

    lastly remember bruno cherou, next zidane!! lol the only thing he had in common was he spoke french! what a t**t

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  38. Got bad news for you. In terms of Net spend, Rafa spent more than Fergie:

    http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2010/10/rafa-benitez-vs-alex-ferguson-transfer.html

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  39. If we've bought considerably more players it would rather indicate that our scouting was really poor.

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  40. Tell that those folks who've worked with them lads at QPR and Charlton respectively.

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  41. Sean Dundee anybody?

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  42. I really want to disagree with Aldo and all these stats but....alas, we have for sure been foolish with our money over the years, what i find really depressing is the sheer lack of success.....no title for 20 years.... is just embarrassing...that said i have put an argument forward nonetheless as to perhaps why this has been the case.

    Now im not much into conspiracy theories... but a mate of a mate told his mate' sister that we are actually still experiencing the curse of a very wicked witch who came down from Manchester...apparently with a very wicked spell.....the curse of which we are still suffering from to this day actually....

    The curse entailed us grossly overspending on mediocre type players esp 1 or 2 from Africa.... which would come to be known as the Voodoo child's...

    However, when good quality players did actually manage somehow to sneak through the pyschic barrier "protecting" us from having a truly talented side that could win the Title...then they would invariably suffer great injuries or be outed or "unsettled" by spellbound manager/coaches of said period...it is said that ONLY 1 or 2 players at the Club with talent would survive...but they would always be prevented from achieving any league success by internal polliticking caused by demon spirits...

    I jest you not, DO NOT THINK THAT THIS CURSE IS EASILY REMOVED EITHER....

    Comments?

    :)

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  43. Lol Illuminati...

    Fergi is a "Sir" (therefore a night of the order) and it has been suggested he prays to demon spirits for the success he's enjoyed. On some level it's hard to argue with all the voodoo stuff...

    But i just tend to laugh it off.

    You can't keep a phoenix from rising again!

    Ynwa!

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  44. Any one think that our new signings that we have so far will appear on the list when Jaime looks back on this upcoming season and makes his list to include Brendan Rodgers signings. Will our new lads be listed has having been worth the money. Know it's too early to tell but from what you have seen lately are the new boys worth the money that was paid for them?

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  45. Although i do agree that we have bought some shocking players over the years, this does even itself out with some of the top class we have bought.
    Look at Ferguson for example, nobody ever mentions players like Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, Veron, Bellion, Taibi, Bebe etc etc
    Flops come with every club, and even though we havent won the league, since the Premier League started we have won a Champions League, Uefa Cup, 3 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 2 Super Cups & a few Charity Shields.

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  46. Jean Michel Ferri aswell, classic Houllier signing.

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  47. The deal for Suarez was, allegedly, lined up while Hodgson was still in charge.

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  48. if you want to blame someone for the plite that liverpool football is in go no further than david moores and rick parry they did the deal that put the club in the state it is today once they came in we never became the champions aqgain, think about what they did.

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  49. Will
    I think you will find a lot of players especially in the Benitez era we made more money selling them on .. ie Crouch. Arbeloa . Barragan , Gonzalez . Carson , Sissoko , Bellamy , Leto .. And i am sure there is more ..

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  50. Okay, all those managers have made some shocking signings, but THEY DIDN'T pay the fess or negotiate the wages.
    Getting sick of hearing how Houllier/Benitez/Dalglish wasted x millions. THEY didn't. The guys who negotiated and signed the deals wasted the money, NOT the manager.
    In the real world, the manager doesn't get involved in the money side. That only happens in your computer game.

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  51. Lol, i think Salif Diao arriving at the Club REALLY did it for me....from that moment on i knew we were cursed..

    Spot on about Fergie too...there's a lot more to the "Red Devils" than people think...

    Lol, we don't need new owners and more money etc what we need is a freaking witch doctor!

    Night all

    Sweet Dreams..

    :)

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  52. The simple reality is if your team is not as good as the ones above it - you have to spend more to get to the level of the teams above you. And those teams will still keep improving too, so you again have to spend more theoretically.

    I don't find it shocking at all. If anything it just highlights we have NOT spent enough. City did and look what happened.

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  53. Jaime, I would like to see the net spend versus the income ratio. For example Benitez sold many players to upgrade to different players. That would rather skew your findings.

    Regards

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  54. They're probably all wondering why you are in work so early...............

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  55. Great point, mate. United only have to add a couple of players a year to keep things ticking over. But those players tend to cost huge amounts - Rooney, Ferdinand, Veron, Berbatov etc.
    We always try and make wholesale changes.

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  56. Benitez?? Aldo can suck it.

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  57. Jamie,got more spin than a cricket ball.

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  58. It's fairly obvious that when you change managers you change players. We have had 6/7 managers in the last 20 years while United have had 1 and Arsenal have had 2. So the figures are skewed and and not a straight forward comparison. However money has been wasted on average players but when you have a £20 million seasonal budget and you need to sign 4-5 players then the risks of buying dross are greatly increased. The board should have stuck with Benitez instead of paying off Hodgson and his mistakes and Dalglish and his mistakes, continuity is the key to success not chopping and changing managers, all that leads to is spending lots of money on transfers.

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  59. Then How many Managers had we had during these period and the number of owners of LFC. Its a clear sign that the BASIC`s are not well at the club and its going down and will continue the slide for a couple of years.

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  60. RM played well under kenny , and while rafa has a better record in the market his football was negetive but john barnes ,aldo and ray houghton,steve mcmahon peter beardsley were top rank he returned to a unsettled sqd i wouder if kenny had got the job ahead ov woy would torres and mash have stayed and would joe cole have stayed and judging his 1st 5 mths he would have kept torres and got top 4

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  61. http://tomkinstimes.com/2011/02/benitez-the-great-money-waster/

    Aldo can put that in his pipe and smoke it.

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  62. Add www.
    tomkinstimes.com/2011/02/benitez-the-great-money-waster/

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  63. Could be worse. There could be a table with all the names of the players we brought in and who subsequently didn't make it.

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  64. Hm, it's only my opinion, but I truly think that Moores intentions when selling the club weren't bad. He knew that he didn't have the financial resources to elevate us to where we want to be. Inept and naive he might have been, but that's about it.

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  65. Well, that's a mayor problem then. When Comolli negotiated all those outrageous transfer fees for mediocre players, Kenny should have told him in advance, that for instance Downing should cost say 12m max and if the player wasn't available for that kind of money, another target should be found.

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  66. Don't forget we were in for a talent called RONALDO! We didnt pay the asking price, united nipped in and subsequently he went in to become one of the best attackers of the modern game. Oh and utd sold him for £80M!!!! I agree with those talking about scouting Portugal for Brazilian players. Where we're we when falcao was banging them in for Porto a season or two ago now?! We do miss out on a lot of obviously good players all too often. Gareth bale was the same thing when he was at southampton. And tevez. We should have got him and mascherano from west ham. Oh well I hope our scouting network is better, like newcastles!!! They are doing great at finding value vs ability. No more degens/ nunez/pongolle/jovanovic/voronins etc etc!!! It's painful...

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  67. Rafa also signed Bellamy....no?

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  68. Aldo is just presenting the brutal reality and it is obvious that all the managers he mentions have contributed to the club's decline. It is not a crime if you face the brutal reality and talk about it. Fans of any club should not idolise anyone but they should be able to see beyond the surface. The whole point is not to miss the forest for the tree!

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  69. no that couldn't be done, there are only 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week!

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  70. was at the beginning, but his form has dipped alarmingly, starting from a couple of months towards the end of last season.

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  71. 'old' man city even got rid of him, then rafa got him, more in panic/desperation. plus his eyes were too far apart, never trust a man whose face looks like he is constantly looking in a hall of fairground mirrors!

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  72. i remember the days when we used to do that....(sigh)

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  73. But it would make people sick to the bone...

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  74. istvan kozma!!! why does everyone ovelook the type of quality such as he?!?!? piechnik was baresi-like in comparison to kozma's talent. fair do's, he did a stevie g, when he inspired our comeback against mighty chesterfield, hauling us back, istanbul-like, to a famous 4-4 !!!

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  75. would rather have had crocodile dundee.

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  76. classic! we should have swooped for his brirish brother Bryan too!

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  77. JK
    why are you running this story again.
    I think we all know of the colossal waste of money and previously I supported your view.
    But this continuing negativity against LFC extremely wearing and begins to beg questions about your personal motivation

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  78. it is a rather sad, if not laughable, game we are playing here, remembering the vast numbers of dire players that we have paid good money to. we have become a lauging stock to other clubs, where they think they can make money out of us, often through our desperation to get back to the 'top table'. as much as we are outraged at being left in the 'attacking' mire, i maybe alone in this odd theory, but i am pleased that we didn't pay the money for dempsey. i agree with fsg. now you may shout me down, and explain why you think i am wrong but i want us to give our younger players a real chance. let them grow by being involved. as you can tell by my moniker, i am a big fan of that lot up the road, but very, very grudgingly, i use them as an example. look what old taggart did when he brought beckham, scholes, giggs and neville through. why do we have the academy? lovely, shiny, state of the art facillities, that up until now, haven't done very much. or have they not? unless we use what we have been nurturing, then why have them? we must accept that we are not CL quality, as we can't even qualify for it! go back to the basics, such as sterling, suso, morgan, etc. give them a chance to shine, don't be afraid to throw them in....save money!! if we are too scared or they are not deemed good enough, then close down the academy and fire all the staff who work with the youth, as that will save a lot of cash. be bold and brave...it may just be the making of us again?

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  79. Dalglish bought a horse in Caroll.The worst decision in the clubs history

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  80. Every manager has a budget, how much they choose to spend on each target is up to them.
    In the real world, the manager is very involved in the money side - wages, contract renewals etc. all come out of a budget.
    It is up to the manager to utilise his resources in the best possible way.

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  81. Kewell was value for money since they only paid 5 million pounds for him

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  82. While there is no denying that the LFC managers in the last 20 years have made some shocking signings, there is one major difference between all 3 clubs. Fergie and Wenger have been at their clubs for over 15 years.

    It is obvious that when a club changes a manager, the new man wants to bring in his own players that fit his philosophy. And by changing our manager every 4-5 years we have made sure that we have to change our system, and in some cases 80% of our squad for the new manager to stamp his authority on the club.

    We have had absolutely no continuity at the club since KD left the club the first time.

    Fergie and Wenger have been able to instill their philosophy on their respective clubs and they have ensured that they do not have to buy 7-10 players every other year. They can sell 3 and buy 3 , or simply sell no one and buy 1 or 2 to improve the team.

    Yet LFC are continuously starting again ... and again ... and again. The changing of the managers also has a negative effect on the accademy as the change in style also means the scouting network has to look for a certain type of player to fit in the the new managers style of play.

    Hopefully we get some continuity under the present management structure, and we are able to build a successfull team in the future. For now all we can do is hope that BR knows what he is doing.

    Sadly, even tho my heart tells me that we can win the league every year, I think that we are at least 3-5 years away from having a team that is capable of challenging for the title. Unless some rich arab decides to buy the club and then, who cares about scouting and continuity. We can just buy the league like City.

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  83. Christ, I think I'd be suicidal after reading one of those.

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  84. island kopAgent753410:15 am, September 13, 2012

    Astrit Ajdarevic Mark Gonzalez Gabriel Paleta Jan Kromkamp Martin Hansen Nabil El Zhar Andriy Voronon Sotirios Kyrgiakos David Ngog Andrea Dossena Alberto Aquilani

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  85. Please tell me ,how many top clubs you know of have 100% success rate in transfers ? Also it's worth remembering that out of all of the above names his only top target was aquilani,who by the way is a very dissent player and was injured ,when bought. Ngog was 1 mil and scored few important goals and was resold for profit . The others were scraps we had to go for as he ( Benitez) could never compete with the likes of man u and others ,yet we were competitive - please concentrate on the gems he signed ,when others wouldn't touch them - Torres ,alonso anyone? Voronin was free and so was Nabil and sotrios was a cover that scored goals and played above his ability and didn't lose us any money. Some of the youngsters he brought in are low risk and no guarantee of success - please be fare in your assessment ,sure Benitez had his issues ,but who does not ?

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  86. berbatov worth the money if u compare him with keane or torres..

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  87. berbatov 48 goals in 108 matches ,bought for 30 mil sold for 4,5 mil torres 65 goals in 102 matches , bought for 22 mil sold for 50 mil . are you for real mate or you just like to stear it up? or and of course i have mentioned before that keane was not rafa's choice ,cheers

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