23 Feb 2012

Ex-Footballer admits: I was 'shocked' by Steven Gerrard's comments...

Former Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City midfielder Robbie Savage has had plenty to say about Liverpool this season. So far, he's questioned whether Kenny Dalglish is a world class manager; claimed that Dalglish overspent on Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, and Jordan Henderson, and argued that those three players would not not get into Man United or Man City's first teams. Now, ahead of the Carling Cup Final, Savage has expressed his surprise at Steven Gerrard's perceived lack of ambition this season.

Liverpool captain Gerrard recently claimed that he would rather win the Carling Cup than finish 4th in the league (!), a view that conflicts with Liverpool's stated goal of qualifying for the Champions League this season.

Speaking to the BBC earlier today, Savage expressed his surprise that a 'top top player' like Gerrard could hold that view. He said:

"I was a little bit shocked by what Steven Gerrard said about winning cups than finishing 4th; totally agree if it's the Champions League or the FA Cup, but as a top player, surely the Carling Cup is the last one on the agenda?

"Steven Gerard is a great player, the best player I've ever played against no question, so if he says that winning Cups is more important than finishing 4th then I've got to believe him.

"If it's a choice between Champions League football and winning the Carling Cup, surely it's got to be the CL? As a player, I'd rather play Champions League football over the Carling Cup".


Winning any trophy is good for the club, but prioritising the Carling Cup over Champions League? I just can't understand that thought process.

I know everyone at Liverpool is desperate to break a six-year trophy drought, but let's not get carried away and miss out on the bigger picture. being in the Champions League has long-term financial benefits for the club, whereas the Carling Cup is a short-term glory fix.

Jaimie Kanwar


105 comments:

  1. Players want to win medals.  Sit two players down at a table after their careers were over and ask. " What did you win" Well i played in the Champions league for two season and went to the San Siro and Nou Camp"  

    Ask the other fella that won cups. " Well i went to Wembley and won the league cup and fa cup (potentially)"  Players are selfish by nature They want to win medals and trophies.


    We all know the merits of qualifying for the CL. Attract better players, huge revenue for the club etc.  

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  2. Gerrard has been told to say this by his mate KK to brainwash all the deluded fans who actually thing winning the carling cup will propel us to greater things.I knew KK would take this cup seriously so consequently bet on us winning it at 9/1 at the start.This cup is a soft option,football now is all about champions league.Ask John Henry what he would want the fa cup and carling cup or 4th place and i guarantee hed say 4th place.Ask Reina ,Suarez,Agger what theyd want, Champions league.Ask limited players like Carroll,Henderson,Downing what theyd want,carling cup as they can hide behind this false success,whereas champions league would embarress them and their abilities.We as fans are being taken for mugs,next year when our revenues plummet due to another disastrous season without europe then see us nosedive even more and get further behind.Plus the way the English teams are going in europe since Rafas great european successess its possible English teams will only be getting 3 places if they dont improve next year and Italy will get our extra place.

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  3. Correct me if i'm wrong please but I thought if you won Carling Cup you automatically got a spot in the Europa League. I know it isnt Champions League but it's at least a start. To be honest, I feel Liverpool still have a chance for 4th spot especially if we win the Carling Cup because it will give us the energy needed to challenge for Champions league. For the luck Liverpools been having this season, I'm happy with were we are at the moment. YNWA

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  4. Come on, read between the lines. LFC are in teh Final of the Carling Cup(which is also teh next match). We are probably 2nd favourites behind Tottenham for the FA Cup. And we are third fav's for the 4th place at the moment. Of course the current Priority is the Carling Cup. After Sunday it will be the Champions League. Come on people!!!

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  5. cup win any day....seriously!!

    we have a young team and to be there supporting ttheir colleagues and seeing that will create desire to be there themselves - train harder and be part of something not many get to be part off

    comebackrafa you are a twat mate....KK 1st season and possibly 2 cups

    1st season

    SG won Rafa 2 cups 1st 2 years and nothing since!!! SG has not long left so winning some medals now he knows he can still lead the team to better in his final few seasons.

    CBF - go support chelsea or something mate

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  6. We have loads of new players in out team.
    We are competing with Arsenal and Chelsea for 4th spot.
    I think we're doing well.

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  7. I think its a case of damage limitation if we do end up winning the league cup but missing out on CL yet again. Hyping up the achievement of winning a trophy. CL is the be all and end all. But I guess a team needs to win a trophy, if they haven't won one in a while, even its just to give the team, a club, the fans, something to celebrate and better.

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  8. Gerrard is captain of Liverpool who have a cup final to play.  What kind of message would he be putting out there if he said he didn't care about the cup on the eve of the final?  He has to ensure his team is 110% up for it as it will still take that to beat a perfect Cardiff performance.

    I'm a little surprised that Savage hasn't read between the lines.

    Just as I was about to post this I saw above a similar comment. Hey ho.

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  9. good thinks need time...ynwa

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  10. Just what does Jaimie or indeed Robbie Savage expect the captain of our club to say in an interview 3 days before a Carling Cup final we are in?

    "Oh, well we are playing on Sunday and are going to try and win the game but the only thing I am bothered about is next Saturday's game against Arsenal and getting into that top 4 so the main thing I will be concentrating on is not getting injured on Sunday so I am fit for the Arsenal game!"

    Is that what they wanted him to say? I'm sure there would be uproar on this site if he did!

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  11. You have had more good luck than the likes of Arsenal and Chelsea.

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  12. Liverpool, Kenny and team, are drilling in the philosophy that focus on the next game. Right now the next game is the Carling cup final, focus is to win that, not worry about Champions League.

    I agree for the purposes of finacial gains Champions league is a must, but like many others have said, Trophy's make history. Champions League football is great, but it doesn't get you in the History books and I'm sure players don't want to just tell their grandkids, well i didn't win anything, but 6 straight years in the Champions league (with the other 31 teams...)

    Look at Arsenal, noone refers to their last 6 years as a success in any way shape or form. But they've had constant qualification to the Champs League.  As daft as it is if they had have beaten Birmingham they may well have have gotten another year out of Cest and Nas to push on. Winning mentalilty and all that.

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  13. Look at it this way. Pretend say i'm an American (or anyone else outside of great Britain for that matter). I know very little or nothing about Liverpool football club. I also know little or nothing about Arsenal or Tottenham Hotspur. Come the end of the season when somebody says to me that Tottenham have qualified in the champions league next season, a competition I also know nothing about but Liverpool have (possibly) won a trophy this season, again the signifigance of which i'm not aware, whom do you think I will perceive as being more successfull, more dangerous next season. The point i'm making is that across the water Liverpool will gain more notoriety winning trophies whatever their signifigance than qualifying for Champions League football and, it makes for a better platform to spring on from, winning trophies prior to entering it. Makes a bit more of a statement when you do show your face finally. No disrespect to Spurs who are playing attractive and good football under HR but even though I myself know that they're a tough team to beat I feel less affraid of them because they have nothing tangible to 'back' their entry into CL and all around Europe I see the other teams saying 'Who are they and what have they one lately' possibly at those clubs peril but even for the players own belief what have they actually won? They and Asenal are both nearly teams. 

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  14. Gerrard made his CC comments weeks ago, not three days ago.

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  15. we hit the woodwork more than most the premier teams together how that good luck

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  16. So, sometime dancer and loud-mouthed sports pundit Robbie Savage has a pop ... cuz let's face it he's won er, what exactly in his illustrious football career? Perm of the Year 1997. Get reall people; ignore it! It's just more noise ...

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  17. There is no scenario where if a club wins the Carling cup then it is automatically denied entry into the CL, so asking someone this kind of scenario question 
    "Would you prefer to win a cup or gain entry into CL?" is plain rubbish.  And who is Robbie Savage?  Has he won any major honours or done anything of note during his time as a player to warrant paying attention to his 'thoughts'??

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  18. Who really pays attention to what Robbie Savage says?? 

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  19. Like my Newcastle (I am not blinkered and biased enough to ignore the fact that we have had a stable defence and how advantageous that is), you have the benefit of a settled back five and no European competition, whilst the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal have been riddled with defensive injuries and are still in the CL for now. Yet, Liverpool are behind them in the table. Disappointing, I know.

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  20. erm Gerrard made the comments a while back, not on the 'eve of the final'

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  21. With the modification of the UEFA cup into the Europa league, the possible revenue for the club is almost as good as the CL, it provides another opportunity to win a trophy - a non-domestic one at that, and the glamour value of the competition isn't that inferior to the CL if you consider the teams that play in it. Manure, City, Porto and Ajax certainly aren't small clubs!

    Furthermore, given where the squad is now, I doubt we are ready to win another CL title yet and the Europa league may just be Kenny's best bet to win his first non-domestic trophy as a manager. While I believe we can make the knockout rounds of the CL, I doubt we'd get past the round of 16 or even the quarter-finals, but with the Europa league, we may just go all the way. The important thing is to make it back into Europe. Our players want to win trophies, and it's not just CL football but the opportunity to win trophies that will attract signings to the club.

    Between the lines or not, Stevie has a very valid cause to suggest winning the Cup is better than finishing 4th. It would also grow our record haul of league cup titles.

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  22. '....focus on the next game'

    Gerrard made the comments a while back, when the next game was a PL game. 

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  23. Every single LFC player will say they want the Champions league but you can't blame them for taking the Carling Cup seriously when they reach the Quarter Finals.Gerrard is looking forward to leading the team out at Wembley and will be remembered for the trophies he has won.
    No LFC fan wants us to be targeting the Carling cup and rightly so this is the least of our priorities but now we in the final why would we not want to win it? Why are us fans been taken for mugs?

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  24. Nice bit of justification that, even though its rather desperate along with the silly comment about Spurs not being a big name in CL. Its that kind of ignorance that costs teams. 

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  25. i think most people have got it wrong, a cup is a cup, and you have to win em. CL gives a bag of cash and the chance to play the top teams in europe but to win a cup is to be a winner. and that kind of thing can breed confidence and be a springboard for further sucess. look at citeh last year, struggled to get 4th but won the FA cup and have kicked on.

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  26. Eh? Europa League isn't anywhere near as lucrative as the CL. Not even close, what a horrendous comment to make. For e.g. last year's Europa losing finalist Villareal, their overall earnings from the Europa League, was around $13m and last year's CL losing finalist Man United got over $70m for their CL campaign. 

    Not sure how you can get it so badly incorrect, the financial difference between CL and Europa League as the information is out there.

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  27. i dnt care what savage says ,im proud we r in the cup final n if we win its another trophy added to our great history ,i think football is all about cup finals ,they r great days out for the fans,great atmosphere's and celebrations if u win ,if we win the fa cup aswell i wouldnt be to dissapointed if we didnt get champs league this year i would still class it as a great season !!!!!!! ynwa

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  28. A game won in the group stage of CL is worth £800k and a group game won in EL is worth £150k. That certainly isn't anywhere near the amount needed to justify your comment of '...the Europa League, the possible revenue for the club is almost as good as the CL'

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  29. in what way would winning the carling cup have any impact on whether we finish 4th or not. seriously some people wind me up. we havent been competing in europe at all this season whereas other teams have, and its not like we're playing wednesday, saturday, thursday, sunday is it? if we dont claim 4th position its because our squad isnt good enough or havent done well enough certainly at home against weak teams, not because we've (hopefully) won the carling cup. get real, these are professionals who get so much physiotherapy its unreal. plus theres nothing like a winning feeling/mentality. so to sum up, there should be no prioritising or agument of which is most improtant. both are acheivable and not determined by the other.

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  30. What modifications to UEFA cup are you talking about ? 

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  31. Why has it always got to be put as one or the other?  Why does it seem that there has to be a choice?  Surely anyone with the slightest ambition would say that they want to achieve both, and win the FA cup as well.

    The League Cup now is a one-off game and not a massive tax on the squad in terms of games played (not to say that the game won't be hard, Cardiff have everything to gain and nothing to lose from this so may as well go out and give it their all whereas losing to a lower league side could damage Liverpool's spirit and confidence) so unless someone is seriously injured in it then it won't have much if any bearing on the general league run-in.

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  32. Well,

    If any Liverpool supporter here who won't celebrate if LFC do win this trophy, I think they are an amazing fans. Incredible.  Maybe they will still complaining why LFC must go through to the final in the next three days!

    So please don't open your wine's bottles if LFC do win the trophy.  Just put it back to the freezer till LFC reach in the Champion League spot.

    Just let us who do support Gerrard and the other players to win this cups to be celebrate it.

    YNWA

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  33. Okay. 

    Okay. Champions League spot is also important. And interestingly, ManUre will earn nothing from both CL or UL.

    Cheers

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  34. How many players in the prem or managers have ever won anything ? In the Liverpool team alone lucas. Reins. Carroll. Kuyt . Downing . Aggar. Skertal. The list goes on have won nothing in their careers .

    Look at the totty ham team they also won nothing and now most thd arsenal team. KK has a winning mentality that's why he has won the Scottish cup the prem the 1st division the fa cup and the carling cup as a manager and that's with 20 years playing golf. The great rednap has only won the fa cup at 65 .

    So KK has it right win something and you start believing you can win everthing

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  35. Odd, childish and irrelevant point to bring up manure, in the context of this part of the thread but whatever you makes feel you better/good about yourself and our club I guess.

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  36. It's about winning mentality . Savage can't know the feeling of winning a cup or playing in the champions league . How many cups gas he or most prem players won. 20 years time they wint be bought a beer for getting fourth. How many current tottenham. Liverpool . Arsenal . Newcastle villa players have won anything in Thier carears we can only remember the players that did. That's why KK is a more successful manager then reddnap fa cups league cups Scottish cup prem league 1st division as a manager with 20 years off playing golf. Paisley 18 cups and titles win everything !

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  37. Agree... Im sure stevie wd like both but the lack of consistancy liverpool showed forces you to think many times befor making statments!!
    I also agree with him that henderson and carroll r both way overrated and overpaid for no dought.. Downing on the other hand clearly has promise and talent that hasnt been put to full use.. It shows from his national team recall as well..

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  38. Either way, the Carling Cup final was the focal point before thinking about final league positions.... he has to show he and the rest of the team are up for this cup final, then after that concentrate on other things... if ppl are wishing for things then itd be to win the league.... realistically we are in with a good shout of winning TWO trophies and we still arent out of the race for 4th spot....but lets get this one out of the way first, its still not won and Cardiff wont be a walk in the park... I for one am glad Gerrard wants to win things with us still and i will be delighted with any success this season.

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  39. If Gerrard has to start bringing out League Cups to validate his career in comparison to that of other superstars, they'd laugh at him.

    In every countries they don't even have a comparable competition ffs! The League Cup is irrelevant

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  40. But of course we should all listen to Robbie Savage. After all he won.... errrr, what exactly? And he played how many times in the CL? What gives him the right to tell Stevie  what he should think? Savage says he can't understand that thinking: well of course you can't, you've never had these thoughts at all! Two-bit player who will look back on his career and realise he could have played for bigger clubs and bigger trophies if he'd learnt to control his gob and play.... oh and if he'd been half as talented as Stevie G of course! Numpty!

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  41. Arsenal have had a settled attacking and managerial set up and Chelsea have had settled selection options on the flanks. And the benefit of additional games with which to play underperforming players back into form.

    You can twist circumstances however you want. Every team has to deal with its own set of circumstances, and the better team will come out on top at the end of the 38 game season - simple as

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  42. yet saying lfc's defence has been settled all season is not blinkered.  glen johnson and agger have missed games this season.  carra got dropped due to lack of form.  you may not be blinkered or bias but u need to take the blinkers off.

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  43. i'd prefer to listen to Djimi Traore than robbie savage, at leat Djimi has a champions league medal........

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  44. They have hardly missed many games through injury this season

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  45. Settled back five is the most important thing to have in the league, more than anything else, in my view, as that is what a successful side is usually built on. That is not twisting anything that is merely thinking that Liverpool and Newcastle have had a huge benefit of having a settled defence....and as well as no European football to juggle. 

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  46. You haven't a scooby. Your a manc

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  47. 100% winning trophies(any). getting 3rd/4th every season and Playing in the champions league, but never winning it like arsenal and chelsea. That is pointless.. All the moaners on here are not Liverpool fans. As for robbie savage. His only medals were a league cup winners + losers medal, so he has diminished his only achievement as a footballer!

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  48. We'd all love to ignor him but certain website people who obviously love to dig at their own team whenever possible love to repost his crap as if any of us Really care... A boring site I'll not bother returning to, one would wonder if a Liverpool fan at all?????

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  49. LFC should be playing against europes elite.The CC is playing against second string prem teams.The FA cup has a lot more prestige and significance.Hands up those fans who would rather lose on Sunday to Cardiff but beat arsenal the following week in the prem,see 98% say beat arsenal.

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  50. Gerrard knows we are not going to finish in 4th and so is MANAGING PEOPLES AND HIS EXPECTATIONS.
    This is orchestrated in my view to soften us up for the reality of where we are.

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  51. Who cares, really..... honestly what Robbie Savage has to say.  He is the Jeremy Clarkson of football.  Open mouth first, think later.  Not sure he thinks, but he opens his mouth.

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  52.  As an american, I agree with your point. I like to think I know quite a bit of our teams history as compared to others here, but I cant disagree with your thought process.

    People here who are saying this is below Liverpool need to get with the times. No one besides us cares about our history, because it is just that. Just because we were the best team in the world does not mean we will always be, performance wise atleast. We were former giants slain by two of my destable compatriots, but in time we will return to our perch atop the football world, and retake what is ours. This Sunday is not about arriving at the top, this Sunday is about the actual start of our journey back not only to Europes elite, but the worlds elite. You need to walk before you can run, and this is exactly that. I just wish everyone could just enjoy something we have been without for the last 6 years, our first of many trophys to come.

    This cup final should not be about arguing if KK should stay or go, or if Downing is quality enough to grace our red shirt, lets handle that stuff Monday. Guys, we are Liverpool fans, just get behind your team for the final, enjoy, and continue the infighting after we celebrate!

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  53. a medal says your a winner, finishing 4th only gives you the chances of playing in the champs league, because you still have to play in a qualifier to get to the champs league group stage.

    Why did Torres go to chelski? because he thought they had a better chance of winning things, be it the league, FA cup, Carling cup or champs league. I bet he would be made up to win the carling cup because that would give him a medal at club level. 

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  54. WINNING TROPHIES IS IMPORTANT MORON, CAN'T STAND PEOPLE WHO BELITTLE COMPETITIONS IF WE ONLY QUALIFY FOR THE EUROPA NEXT SEASON THEN SO BE IT, IT'S A TROPHY. FOOTBALL IS ABOUT WINNING TROPHIES  NOT FINISHING A MEDIOCRE 4TH, 2ND, 3RD, AND 4TH SHOULDN'T EVEN BE IN CHAMPIONS LEAGUE CAUSE THEY AIN'T CHAMPIONS. IT'S NOT ALL BOUT THE MONEY ITS BOUT SILVER.

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  55. 'pretend i'm an american'
    how about we don't.the league cup is worth a poxy place in the europa league.champs league is more important otherwise it's another summer of overpaying for average players.

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  56. 'walk before you can run'
    comments like this are mental buddy.
    5 years ago we were playing a champs league final.now you're saying that winning the league cup is the start of a new journey?
     

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  57. thursday night channel five.
    europa league cash is nowhere near the champions league,if it was do you think there'd be such a clammer to finish in the top 4?
    are stoke suddenly flush and going to be able to spend 20mil on players?
    doubt it,you're misinformed.

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  58. Winning a cup and creating a winning mentality to push on and grab that 4th spot? Makes sense to me, if the players believe they can win the team will
    Be much better. Gerrard and dalglish are bang on the next game is the most important.

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  59. I think what most fans are missing is that we might very well end up with NEITHER! Think about that. We don't have some divine right to choose which we get. Right now we have the possibility to WIN A DAMN CUP!!! If we can do that and get an automatic qualification to europa, THEN we can see about upgrading that to CL by improving our league form.

    Alternatively we can continue this useless bickering about which is better and end up with no cups and no euro competition next season.

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  60. Can I just say this.  Uncle Bob lifting a trophy at Wembley, Ronnie Whelan curling a peach from the edge of the box against the mancs, Graeme Souness turning and volleying past Southall, King Kenny hooking an over the shoulder ball past the keeper.  All these took place in League Cup finals.  I have great memeories of these occasions and am for one fully looking forward to sunday.  Champions League football maybe where the money is at now, but bar Bales goals at the San Siro I can't really remember many great fooballing memories past us winning it in 05 and being in the final a couple of years later.  For God sakes lads enjoy sunday for what it is.  It's the first trophy of the season and we've got a chance of winning it.  Everything past that, who cares.

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  61. Top 4 is the target, any cups that we can pick up along the way are a bonus

    Any numpty knows that

    But let's discuss what Savage said Gerrard said and how Savage feels about it. How interesting.......... YAWN

    Savage is a media slut who will do anything to add to his bank balance. He is irrelevant

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  62. It just proves that light does not always travel faster then sound...lol

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  63. 1st time I'm going to agree with Papisssss - about a settled defence, but not about Europe.

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  64. If you have experienced and proven players who have come in and done a job for us for more than 2 seasons, I would call it a settled defence. That's what strength in depth is all about. It doesn't make a huge difference if Kelly, Johnson or Flannagan play, nor if Carra takes the place of Skrtel or Agger, having successfully partnered either of them before. Likewise, Johnson or Aurelio could easily do a decent job in place of Enrique.

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  65. He is right in this instance though. Kenny made a whole lot of new signings not just for the sake of enhancing or supporting what we already had. He brought in a whole range of options we're trying to integrate all at once.

    A few mods is an enhanced machine. If we mod almost everything, it is no longer the same machine. Adam is not Alonso, Lucas is not Mascherano, Spearing is a spare part, Henderson and Adam are both new parts and Lucas had barely gotten a game with Gerrard this season. And if Torres and Carroll are anything to go by, team building is not about accomodating the suppliers to the finisher but the finisher to the suppliers. Our supply line isn't settled yet, so we are indeed learning to walk again.

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  66. And that is why I said the possible revenue. It is not based on the fact they aren't proportional, but the opportunity is there for TV rights, extra games, merchandising and advertising. Group stages + round of 32 is alot of money for the club. Of course the difference between what the losing finalists gets is different, but the difference dwindles for those who get knocked out earlier.

    With regards to your specific example, Villareal's stadium seats less than 25k and Old Toilet seats more than 75k. Given the same number of games, Man U would make at least 3 times more from ticket sales alone. Why at least? Villareal does not sell out most of their games. Manure does. Man U definitely sells more merchandise worldwide than Villareal too, therefore we cannot discount the earnings from competition related merchandise either. If it was Man U in the Europa league and Villareal in the CL, Man U will probably still out earn Villareal here. The next closely related factor is branding power and advertising contracts will always be paying a premium for the likes of Man U, Liverpool, Barca and Real Madrid. Adidas may claim we don't win enough to deserve a bigger deal, but the fact is, Warrior recognises the potential of LFC as a brand - our replica kit sales are only beaten by those 3 teams. So you would imagine, regardless of which European campaign, the additional advertising bonuses will always be bigger for the likes of Man U and Liverpool.

    Therefore, considering all external factors, Man U was always likely to make somewhere close to 4-5 times more than Villareal in a European campaign and that is evidenced by the figures you have produced. The financial difference is not competition related but club related(stadium size/brand reach). I maintain my stance that the potential revenue of both competitions is similar.

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  67. That's prize money alone. How about ticket sales and the accompanying merchandising?

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  68. Just to play in the premier league, TV rights give 50m per club. One would imagine these go towards players' wages. Alot of a club's earnings would also have to come from merchandising, sponsorship deals and ticket sales. The same sponsors also pay different clubs differing amounts. This is not based on winning alone but by the international popularity of the clubs. If Adidas isn't willing to up their sponsorship deal with us, how much do you think they're paying Stoke? With a stadium capacity of under 28k, how will their earnings compare with ours(45k), Newcastle(52k), Arsenal(60k) or Man U(75k)?

    Are our new owners really that generous? We are still sponsored by Carlsberg, but Standard Chartered has given us even more to become the sponsor on our kits. Stoke lists 7 club partners on their page, one of which is the premier league. We've got 14 on a dedicated page(Stoke doesn't have a dedicated page) that doesn't have the premier league on it, and no TV stations either. Do you now know why Stoke can't splash 20m on players as they please?

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  69. I think that Steven Gerrard is right by saying that they need to win the Carling Cup. They are in the final so they have a chance to get a cup and by doing so he as a captain has raised the other players morale and motivation to win the cup. Also I believe that it's not about what a player want, it about Liverpool's image and the fans. I as a fa would definitely prefer to win 1 cup that finish 4th and have no guarantee that Liverpool will move on from the 1st leg of CL.

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  70. He has been right on every suject so far except the Gerrard ambition... Dalglish is not  world class manager anymore... he did overpay for all of the Brit crap he brought in and none of them would make any of of the other top 4 starting 11...

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  71. I believe your view of the champions league 100 percent. But since the Carling Cup is there for grabs, Liverpool should expect nothing more than a win because it adds to the history and prestige of our trophy hall. These are the games Liverpool want to win. Every game must be a win. And its games like the Carling Cup final, AND away to Bolton that should be wins. I don't see the harm in priortizing cup games because it gives the team practice in doing what is necessary, and that is to win, there are no ties in cup games. There is one issue though, it seems that alot of players try to pick up  their game because they want to be involved in the final which in my mind is bad blood. We need players that will give it there all no matter what, and not players that just use Liverpool to seek glory for themselves when the time is ripe for them. And some players you mentioned may think that way but I hope that's not the case. 

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  72. Ye. Gerrard is saving a cracker in his locker, that's for sure. 

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  73. A short term fix? Obviously winning the league cup and coming 4th in league arent mutually exclusive as your tone seems to direct. I agree w Gerrard, and from a footballer's point of view, a trophy is a trophy(and a day/match at wembley. 4th place is a shot at CL qualification- a very long distance from a trophy. A trophy Gerrard has won. LFCs financial gain from a 4th place surely wouldnt factor into Gerrards answer to this question. Did Savage ever play CL football? Maybe his differing opinion is a reflection of the answer to that.
    Apart from that, I dont disagree with what Savage said about Liverpool. Which of those 3 was a good buy at the price? Which would get into other top teams? Who's disagreeing with that?
    As for Kenny, it's been a long, long time since he could legitimately be called an elite or world class manager. It's a good 15 years since he last won something I think. With that, and on the strength of Liverpool's last 12 months I think it's pretty hard to say he's a top manager now, until he  proves himself again. Winning a trophy is a good place to start.
    Im 25, and started supporting Liverpool about the time they stopped winning. I always wanted Kenny to come back as I hadnt witnessed those glory days, but Im not endeared by him at all I must say. You know where his heart is every time Liverpool score a goal, but his pitchside enthusiasm aside, he very often seems like a complete titty to me. I'd be surprised if most football fans and many LFC fans(at least on some level) dont agree. But then I'm not the unconditionally and dogmatically loyal sort. Especially if allegiance is directed to badge, or flag, or a book, or some other nonsense.
    The main reason Im tangentially ranting is that football fans can be blinded by their allegiance to a club, and we shouldnt forget that we actually have something in common with all football fans, Shankly forbid- even MUFC fans! We all love football!! It's a beautiful game...
    We should remember and focus on that common ground more, and not get sucked into the hypocrisy and tribalism that has characterised football(specifically fans) for so long. For example, anyone who wouldnt agree that Luis Suarez is a twat(on the field at the least) is about as sensible and objective as a mormon. Which is to say, it's a position nobody(except a hypocrite or a fool) would ever hold or defend in isolation.
    Only with group(or mob) derived courage and security can people continue to maintain and perpetuate such idiocy and sanctimony.
    Seriously didnt set out to ramble so much, what can i say- football fans just fucking annoy me. Put an insecure person in a 'group' or a 'club' and- for some- their degree of stupidity, their appetite for conflict and hostility, will start to rival the dumbest animals on the planet. Are you such a person? If so, be aware football is merely a vehicle or outlet for your problems and shortcomings. Suicide bomber, neo nazi , football hooligan. The flag under which such cretins operate is of no importance- it's a means to satify unrelated needs.
    Im not saying hooliganism is even a problem now, but the tribalism remains. I guess it's a human need in some way(like a hunting substitute or somethng), but lets not kid ourselves, it's got nothing at all to do with the game we all love, and we dont need it. I'm very open to any good counter argument(that football does in someway 'need' the tribalism), Im yet to hear it though.

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  74. I guess you wont be watching Sunday then?

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  75. Very few players ever win a European Cup winners medal - I bet Djimi Troare never thought in his wildest dreams he'd ever get one. When he's Dalglish's age, Charlie Adam (hopefully) will be able to show his grandchildren a League Cup winners medal. It's pointless playing in the Champions League from a players point of view if you have no hope of winning it.. and at this point in time we haven't. This season has shown up how weak the Premier League actually is - how many English clubs are going into the next round???
    I have no respect for Robbie Savage anyway. He was a dirty player, with no talent. At least Vinnie Jones could take it as well as dish it out AND VJ has a FA Cup winners medal to show his kids, eh Robbie!

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  76. is the dancing season over ?
    Robbie savage..... footballer my ar**?

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  77. 800k in the world of footie is nothing. When Butch and Sundance were here we paying out 30% MORE than that in interest every week. 800k wouldn't even cover Rooney's monthly wage.

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  78. Well the Americans who 'don't know anything about the teams, cups and competitions ' in football are highly unlikely to pump any sort of money into the game and help sustain it. They are neither fans nor supporters. Why would Liverpool FC care someone who isn't even a football fan. Plus with internet everything is one click away and any noob if interested in football would understand in half-an-hour as to which the is the more successful team at the moment. It is then the fans choice as to whether he follows history/tradition or exciting football or both. Also if somebody new actually watches both Liverpool and Spurs play, I woudn't be surprised if he chose spurs at the moment. but we are digressing - My point was that Liverpool FC or for that matter any club plays for its fans and supporters. Its ultimately down to what the fans want from their team. If that is not being delivered  there is no point running after a american who knows nothing about soccer. Also the Champions league has a much wider appeal than the carling cup. A fan will want to 'watch' his team play and win, not read about it on wikipedia.

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  79. There is plenty of information out there that simply illustrates CL is far far far more lucrative than CL, including ticket sales, etc. 

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  80. You are being rather narrow-minded. The losing finalist of CL got around $70m (which includes group games won, etc) whilst losing EL finalists got around $7m. I just gave ONE small part (one group game won) of the money earned. Think bigger picture, not hard you know

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  81. I'm sure he'd really rather take both. It 's always one or the other.

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  82. Totally agree with some of the comments about winning trophies over qualifying for champions league, ask tottenham fans, do they want champions league football or a trophy. For me its a trophy everytime, history remembers the winners. I remember a famous Bill Shankly quote, 'If your first your first, If your second your nothing'. We can qualify for the champions league all day long but it is winning that is important, simply qualifying for a tournament doesn not make you a winner!!!

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  83. not having a settled back four is not called unlucky... more like untalented

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  84. Can we have a show of hands/posts as to where we stand on this + a brief explanation as to why.
    I'm just curious.

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  85. O yeah the vote is specific to this season only and should be either
    Champions League (CL) or Cups

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  86. Winning trophies is where it's at. good scouting and development of players should make up for spending stupid sums of money on overhyped individuals. Football is the most played sport in the world. The idea that these 50 or so players valued over 10 million are any better than those under this amount is laughable, disproven countless of times by teams who have produced a constant rotating system of talent. Robbie Savage has probably never played in the Champions League and so overvalues it. He also has played in the League Cup, but seldom won it, but clearly still undervalues it. Steven Gerard has one the Champions League plays for Liverpool his entire career, and is better placed to understand that Liverpool has a trophy room in need of filling. Case closed

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  87. the truest thing I have read in this thread.

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  88. You have given absolutely nothing in terms of tangible and definitive evidence to back up your bemusing stance. Theoretical nonsense doesn't count. What proof is there that United would have got/get a lot more money and closer to the amount they got in CL last season if they reached the EL final? Bring in some hard figures, instead of theoretical waffle please. Hard to take you seriously.

    'evidenced by the figures you have produced'

    erm those figures do absolutely nothing to back up your stance, nothing at all. They are overall figures, they don't back up your claim about merchandising and TV rights. They simply state how much they earned, overall. You haven't bothered to break down the figures to illustrate how it backs up your point about merchandising, etc . Very lazy and incorrect. 

    Only valid point I have seen from you is ticket sales, that is it but there is a mammoth financial difference still, between being in CL and EL, regardless of popularity and stadium of club
     

    There is tons and tons of work done by people like SwissRamble, Andersred, etc, to illustrate why it simply isn't even close between EL and CL, in terms of financial benefit. Just google their names, especially the excellent SwissRamble who covers all sorts of teams' finances and is highly reputable in football finances. Like someone else said/implied on here to you, its in the public domain, so its bemusing as to how you can get it so horrendously wrong about CL and EL finances.

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  89. Amazed that some people think EL is close to CL, in terms of financial benefits. Amazing, absolutely amazing.

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  90. Abso-frickin-lutely. Look what happened to Arsenal against Birmingham. Let's just concentrate on one game at a time and see where we end up at the end of the season. Then, and only then, will all the players / pundits / fans quotes/mis-quotes throughout this season about where we'll be and what is most important have any real contextual merit for discussion

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  91. Well it is a start of a new journey isn't it!?! Cause I don't see how we are continuing the CL journey we were on, ooh how long ago now?? New manager, new owners, lots of new players, all at the same time.... I'd say that's a new journey. A bit of silverware would help top the tank up along the way, cmon you redmen.

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  92. We shouldn't listen to Robbie Savage, but here we all are... Seems we'll
    listen to whatever garbage is thrown at us and then we'll all get at
    each others throats about it. Shouldn't we all be getting together behind our club? Or at least until after Sunday if you really can't go without a bit of a cufuffle!! Isn't YNWA supposed to mean something to us all?

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  93. Good points.  Savage is nothing to do with Liverpool.  He just says stuff to get noticed.

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  94. KK not a world rated manager anymore becasue he hasnt won anything for 15 years lol , hard to do when your not manageing and playing golf.

    rednap only won 1 cup in 40 years, best english manager, no but hes a excellent man manager hmmm really, doesnt win anything though. is he world class , next England Manager ? Didnt bother to win the carling cup becuase it was not important ?

    Wengar is regarded as one of the best managers in the world , his record is : and thats full time management in his 60's

    1998 Premier League1998 FA Cup2002 Premier League2002 FA Cup2003 FA Cup2004 Premier League2005 FA Cup

    KK management  record is:
    Liverpool (1985–1991, 2011– )
    Football League First Division
    Winner: 1985/86, 1987/88, 1989/90
    FA Cup
    Winner: 1985/86, 1988/89
    Charity Shield
    Winner: 1986 (Shared) 1988, 1989, 1990 (Shared)
    [edit] Blackburn Rovers (1991–1995)
    FA Premier League
    Winner: 1994/95
    Football League Second Division Play Off
    Winner: 1991/92
    [edit] Celtic (2000)
    Scottish League Cup
    Winner: 1999/00

    not bad with about 15 years playing golf, if he wins on sunday that will be 12 trophies, not world class manager !, your right lets get rednapp in hes world class.

    if you dont know how good this guy is you really need to look at your self and your knowledge of football.

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  95. Well done chris its a long rant, my fav bit KK is not a world class manager not won nothing for 15 years, hmm hard to do on a golf course isnt it lol, hes won 11 trophies and had 15 years off,

    12th on sunday, thats twice as many as wenger , 11 times as many as Rednapp, 12 times more than Oniel, all without a break from the game of 15 years on the cost del sol with a beer and a golf club.

    Hiddick clearly a well wanted world class manager 14 trophies, but no golf lol.

    anceloti, hes only won 9 trophies,

    you can only compare him to hiddick, capello 16 trophies, fergi and of course mourino who at his age is by far the best, if he had not stepped away from the game, i wonder how many title he would of had and if he wins on sunday , you should admit first season back hes back to winning ways.

    and he will be if im right the third most successful brit manager ever, fergi a million trophies, paisley 18 trophies, dalglish 12 trophies.

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  96. i think chelsea need adam right now, aresnal could do with him as well, all want saurez , enriuqe could get in most sides, so i think your just talking the side downm we overpayed becuase to get the players we wanted we had to, british young and we wearnt in champs league, thye have all had trouble settleing in but carrol is looking better as is adam, even henderson, all this crap about KK not being world class anymore, small thinking, youve given him no time at all, retired cyclist world champ returns and all the small minded peopel go , his not world class anymore, he just smiled at them all and won,
    KK has won more titles than wenger, anceloti and is just behind hiddick and copello , dont even talk about the greats like rednap and oniel, so it will hopefully be 12 trophies makeing him the third best british manager of all time i think, not bad for a poor manager,

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  97. Your logic is not airtight.
    Mohammed Ali may have the best CV in boxing, but he's not among the best boxers anymore.

    I dont think anyone would deny Ken was once among the worlds best. But are you saying that after such a long hiatus he still remains a world class manager? If so, I would 'take a look at yourself' and ask why your tongue is so far up his arse at this moment? Im guessing you're not a Man U fan who's just calling it as he sees it..?

    He has to prove he's still up to it. I think that'd be true of a 3 year hiatus from top level management.
    The suggestion that he's not among the worlds best (anymore), is obviously based on the last 12 months. You should outline your disagreement with that statement, which can't include achievements from the 1980s.
    Anyone who works in a competitive field knows that what you achieved yesterday, won't help you today. In fact, if you win on all fronts, it's quite possible your hunger to do the same again will be somewhat diminished.

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  98. Well, I think I've responded to much of this in a post above. I will repeat that Kenny must *prove himself again* to be among the world's best again.
    You're comparisons to Oneil and Redknapp do betray and irrational bias. If either of these had been in charge of teams with the resources of a Liverpool or Man U, your comparison would be valid; as it happens it's not.
    He did win the league with Blackburn which was quite an achievement but that was a long time ago, and at a time when such unlikely achievements were more common than today. The game has changed and he needs to prove he is skilfull enough to adapt. Pretty sure he hasnt done that yet.
    I actually have faith that Kenny will get to grips with the modern game and make his mark on a title race at some point. But it is faith(belief without evidence), because he's a billion miles off this time.
    The last 12 months have been average, especially in lew of the financial outlay since he returned. Ok, he got to the league cup final.. Surely it follows then that Malky Mackay is among the worlds best then?
    By the way 12*1=12 not 11

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