10 Jan 2012

DALGLISH: "That is RUBBISH" - Surely an apology would've been better?

Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish has once again defended the club's decision to allow players to wear T-Shirts in support of beleaguered striker Luis Suarez.

Speaking to the official Liverpool FC website, Dalglish refused to accept that T-Shirt stunt was tacky, ill-advised or inflammatory. He argued:

"Obviously there was a big issue with Luis.

"The players showed support for Luis which was fantastic, but then some people interpreted that wrongly as the players saying they're not interested in the fight against racism.

"That is totally and utterly rubbish. If we can help to eradicate racism or discrimination from any part of the society, with the help of anybody at Liverpool Football Club, then that help will be forthcoming".

"We don't want racism anywhere near football and certainly not anywhere near this football club.


That's all well and good, but in my view, Dalglish once again underlines the club's damaging insularity with his comments. He is still not seeing the bigger picture, and he still can't seem to grasp how the T-shirt fiasco appeared to the outside world.

It doesn't really matter how Dalglish or the players see it; what matters is how the T-shirt stunt reflected on Liverpool FC as a whole, and to many people, it was a crass and insensitive display display of misguided bravado.

Would Liverpool's support for Suarez have been any less without the T-shirts? No. Has the wearing of T-shirts had any kind of positive impact? Arguably no.

Dalglish should've taken the humble route and apologised for the stunt, but what we got instead of was more unapologetic belligerence.



Jaimie Kanwar


169 comments:

  1. Does it?

    Does Liverpool really care about what others think of us? Should we start playing to the gallery?

    We never have. We never will. And we re not the only club like that.

    Suarez has taken a hammering from the media and from other clubs fans. The abuse started long before the Evra incident.

    Liverpool did the right - if cheesy - thing by publicly showing their support. And I expect them to stand their ground.

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  2. honest and to the point. the media/pundits have created the PC storm that we are surrounded by at the the moment. we need a few more people to put this into perspective. an apology would have been a way to calm the storm but in essence would have also accepted that suarez did commit the crime that the media believe he has.

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  3. I wdv done the same,jamie kenwar gets ur facts rite, suarez has been used as a scapegoat, all this has been blown out of proportion

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  4. y always find something if y want ...look in the mirror....ynwa

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  5. Didnt KK say himself it was the idea of a few of the players to wear the t shirts? 

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  6. the ideal photo woul d have been suarez in the middle and johnson and sterling surrounding him with robby above them...signed by god

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  7. If Evra and Fergie had handled the original complaint better then Liverpool could have.
    Like Oldham have done no wild allegations the club and police investigated and a man has been arrested.
    How you start a complaint is the most important part of a complaint and has to be perfect or it could you get the mess we are in now.
    How a man can accuse somebody of a word that was never said then have it passed of as mistranslation is a joke.
    The team do not see Suarez as a racist, they are the men that have worked with this player for nearly a year with no problems and showed their support.

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  8. This is where leadership comes into play; just because players want something, doesn't mean they should get it.

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  9. What facts do I need to get straight?

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  10. Jaime - i understand how/why people are not best pleased but the facts are there.  The FA booked him for being honest, using a word once that he understood NOT to be racist/offensive.
    The FA bowed to media & anti racism group pressure and found him guilty based on no hard facts and no witness statements.
    Evra also insulted Suarez but is he being even questioned never mind punished? Nope.
    Also, the best & most informed people are the players, no Utd players witnessed ANYTHING racist and no Liverpool player did either.
    So, if they (LFC players) feel stongly enough to wear a t-shirt in support of a player THEY BELIEVE is NOT A RACIST then that is up to them.

    No one can argue that the FA carried out a fair investigation and punishment.
    LFC have issued their statements and Suarez has apologised - is that not sufficient.

    By the way, LFC are not going to let this lie - they clearly feel justice was not served adequately and more to the point I am very interested to hear what information Daglish referred to before as being hidden...?

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  11. I have recently noticed, BBC has been showing a lot of negative information about Liverpool with provoking Headlines. 

    Since Fergi's make up with BBC. They seems to be very biased towards Man Utd (and against Liverpool).  Liverpool games are put at the end of the show in MOTD. Not surprise that, Liverpool anti-racism stance was given no highlight in media but t-shirt wearing was a headline.

    Seems Liverpool are loosing a battle in Media against Man. Utd. Club should notice these things and work towards a positive image building.

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  12. You all should read this and forget everything else:
    http://newsframes.wordpress.com/2012/01/06/media-on-racism-churnalism/

    Great article!!

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  13. I think the team needed to turn the negative into a positive and show unity and team spirit. It's just a shame it was turned on us again and that some morons have used it to make a gesture of racist intent. That was not it's intent.

    That said... I am uncomfortable playing to the gallery but we've got to repair some damage here. We have a great reputation for being intelligent fans with respect for former players and opposing players of quality, we are renowned for a considered attitude to football of quality and appreciate great football.

    There is a certain amount of rebuilding of our reputation that needs to take place here. We have to come up with a better retort than singing the suarez song in response to 'your just a town full of racists!' (if that is how it went down.)

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  14. the fact that he was and is an innocent party in all this. The club, players and manager were right to back him and should continue to do so. This whole BS about using the N word in England, well it was between two guys who were talking in Spanish.  

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  15. You are out of order friend!  The support for Suarez did, I believe,have good intentions but should have been accompanied by some correct wording! example;("Suarez is not a racist".). The fact that the players walked out the way they did was at best inadvisable!
    In relation to your first two paragraphs,you are way out of line because LFC have 'ALWAYS' been quite the opposite to what you suggest! You are also in the extreme minority with your views!

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  16. The simple crux of this whole matter is the FA 3 Man Panel without any supporting evidence decided to completely and totally accept Patrice's Evra's word as to what was said that  day.

    Why on earth would we now or then just accept that judgement??? To satisfy the media who will not even acknowledge the above point??? If your logic was applied to the Hillsborough Justice campaign we would have just accepted the disgraceful lies printed by the S*N!

    As the King said when he came back last year, if the Fans, Players and owners stick together we have a chance. The solidarity which the LFC family are showing on this issue is irritating the british media and rival fans as they envy our clubs spirit! (with the notable exception of the author of this article)

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  17. People are acting like Suarez was caught shaving his head and tattooing a swastika on his forehead, what actually happened is a language barrier, I'm pretty sure if we sent an English player to Uruguay he would say a few things wrong that he didn't understand were offensive. Look up dictionary definitions of a racist I'm pretty sure this lot doesn't add up to what it says, comes to something when that woman on the train is mentioned for a few days and STILL they are going on about Suarez's mistake. Wouldn't surprise me if all this is being constantly flooded into the media so it takes the pressure off of Terry ... who knew exactly what he was saying was offensive and intended on it being that way.

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  18. "The FA booked him for being honest, using a word once that he understood NOT to be racist/offensive."

    It doesn't matter what he believed. The simple fact is that the word 'negro', in English, is considered offensive. He used it during a less-than-friendly exchange and his own evidence, plus that of Comolli and Kuyt, was deemed questionable.

    If I move across to the USA and start driving my car on the left side of the road, I'm breaking the law. It doesn't matter that I've spent my formulative years driving on the right. By their rules I'm doing the wrong thing and will be punished accordingly.

    It was up to Suarez and Liverpool to make sure that he understood cultural differences, and given that he apparently uses the term in practise, it shouldn't have been a surprise to the club.

    The sensible way forward would have been to immediately sight a cultural misunderstanding, offer an explanation and apology to Suarez and then take that into the FA. Instead we came out claiming that nothing wrong was done, questioning Evra's integrity, offering suspect testimony and generally doing everything we could to get everyone offside.

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  19. Jeez - Suarez is NOT innocent! He called Evra 'negro' - he admitted it. That was totally wrong, and he deserved a ban for it. The FA's findings of fact are out of order as they're unproven, but Suarez is not a victim here, and perpetuating that myth is damaging, and it's the reason why the club has been made to look foolish throughout this whole situation.

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  20. Agree 100% and to add to that, just because the manager believed it was a good idea and supported it doesnt mean it should happen either, the PR team at Liverpool should have advised the players / Dalglish about possible repercussions and considered the image of the club.

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  21. Sometimes Jamie you sound like a true fan, other times like a typical hack just looking for sensationalism and other times you strike me as a fake fan employed by a competitor to create divisions within our supporter base.

    1. We believe Suarez to be innocent of the alleged racism charge.
    2. We DO NOT condone racism.
    3. The managers and players support of Suarez is in defence of his innocence, not in condoning racism.

    Imagine if you will, a Coca Cola executive having a row with a Pepsi Cola executive at some conference or other. He accuses him of racism although there is no corroborating witnesses.

    1. The Pepsi guy would never have been found guilty.
    2. There is no way in hell Pepsi would or would be expected to give a public apology to their fierce rivals Coca Cola for what amounts to an unfounded accusation of racism decided by some mickey mouse panel. 

    What would probably happen is that Pepsi would sue Coca Cola for slander and defamation of character and whatever other rights Coca Cola would have breached.

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  22. Look mr jaimie.. If we say ok to everything then you are a moron... We are Liverpool Football Club not some petty clubs from lower divisions!!! If Dalglish thinks that Suarez was not guilty then I think we should back him, isn't it??? Because I don't think that we know better of whatever happened in the Suarez case... If we apologize for something we're not guilty of, then more situations like that will arise where despite being faultless we should be saying sorry.... That isn't the way great clubs operate... We're undermining our reputation doing so... And the FA will think that we fear them then more issues like that will happen where we'll be victimized for nothing... So we should confront them!!

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  23. I am glad some common sense still exists amongst our fans

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  24. To find someone guilty there needs to be evidence - the FA have nothing but disparity because two people (only one of whom was present on the pitch that day & discussed the issue with the player afterwards, in dutch not english or spanish i might add) did not give precisely the same wording as suarez used. Incidentally Comolli is on record as misunderstanding Suarez - as they discussed the issue in spanish.
    Look, i admit that the incident itself didn't 'look' good it did look like Suarez was at least mouthing off to Evra but they (FA) DON'T have any HARD evidence to punish him like they did.
    In short, they took Evra's word, no wintess accounts and claimed Suraez's account to be unreliable.
    It wouldnt stand up in court & LFC are without a player for 8 games and he's now labelled a racist.
    Nowe, tell me this what will likely happen to John Terry - who was WITNESSED raciallu abusing another player....everthing has gone SO quiet on that front.

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  25. Jamie - your YES/NO vote seems to be loaded with conditions after the YES/NO.  Seems you're trying to load the dice.

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  26. They weren't speaking English were they.
    To translate a foreign language into English or Italian and make it racist so they can then press charges isn't that racist?

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  27. Turning on yet another manager are we? Go and delete my comment as usual...

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  28. Suarez said a word in Spanish that was 'probably' used in a derogatory way.  The rest of the show has been a stitch up on both the player and the club and now the impotent journalists are having a pop.

    The lady doth protest too much....

    why should KD apologise - for supporting his player?

    Try not following the herd and realise what is going on.

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  29. well said GlenMan.  Look, the black players at LFC were happy enough to support Suarez, is that not enough?  Afterall, they were there....

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  30. FFS man, have you not understood anything about all this, the conversation took place in Spanish, Evra started it in Spanish, you cannot then flip over to an English context as of when it suits you. That N word was used within a foreign context. Of course he is a victim, he's been hounded by the media well before this case and continue to do so, he's also a victim of the FA's manufactured conclusion on all this. You really need to read some of the analysis by Paul Tomkins, Jim Boardman and Rob Gutmann, otherwise you are ill informed as all those others calling LS a racist.

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  31. Suarez was guilty of saying a word which would cause offense here and he admitted it, the ban should stand based on him not adapting to a cultural difference.
    Is he racist tho............No and even Evra said this as well as the FA.
    I'm afraid however that the Media in this day and age as well as some man utd fans (a lot of them the media) and everton fans who don't read the report in full as well as what was said by Evra himself will take the facts out of it and just state he is racist.
    I can say as a spurs fan i do not believe this to be the case at all. I think cultural differences are to blame and Suarez needs to accept that he needs to be more wary as well as mindful and apologies for the mistake.
    To manu and everton fans he will always be guilty of much worse such is the nature of rivalry however everyone else knows to think and sees it differently

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  32. Calm down Jaimie. For starters, fuck the 'outside world'. They've blown the thing totally out of proportion in an endeavour to make themselves look 'liberal'. This has been a storm in a teacup and the only reason it won't be forgotten in a year's time is because when you essentially brand someone 'a racist', the British public tend to latch onto that kind of thing. (Ironically, shouldn't that last statement be considered 'racist'?)

    What Suarez allegedly said to Evra in no means warranted the hilarious media reaction it did and if you honestly believe that the over-the-top, sensationalist, worryingly myopic, public response to that incident; the teeshirts; and the club statements; was anything as noble as 'defending victims of race crime', then you're being very naive.

    Honestly, hand on heart, I'd be saying exactly the same thing if the roles were reversed and it was a Liverpool player who had helped to create a similar issue about a similar racial comment. Evra's questionable remark about Suarez's background was rightly ignored by the Uruguayan. Why? Because who fucking cares where he comes from or what skin colour someone has? It's a shitty remark with very little offensive intelligence behind it so you're lowering yourself by being offended. I think John Barnes echoed that sentiment recently too, saying that he never let it get to him when he was playing. Similarly, most players of other ethnicities have shown similar restraint when faced with similarly ignorant verbal abuse.

    It seems that I'm not qualified to say this however because I'm not black. But surely even black people must have been slightly alarmed by a media campaign that saw everyone censored to such a degree - for example, Alan Hansen's ill-advised 'coloured' remark. That incident smacked of someone who obviously didn't mean any offense, who was trying his hardest NOT to offend, but who isn't up-to-date with what is considered 'offensive' these days. It also smacked of people just wanting to have a dig at Alan Hansen and the BBC. Arguing because they see a weakness as opposed to arguing out of genuine offense. Opportunism. That's the worry here.

    Part of this was so obviously an agenda from the start and the fact that so many idiots got swept up in it makes me really wonder what society has to fear more - racism or stupidity.

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  33. Jaimie - Racist abuse is wrong, but he said a WORD in a sentance considered NOT to be Racist abuse whilst speaking in Uruguayan spanish. His INTENTION was not to racial abuse Evra.
    What this incident shows is you and the majority of this PC obsessed country are zenophobs. Its your opinion and your entitled to it, but I think you are wrong.   

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  34. An 8 game ban for a cultural misunderstanding that the plater admitted to is too excessive.
    I accept that both the player and the club have made an oversight (LFC should have educated him better & he should not have used the word he admited to using, the once).
    A suspended 8 or more game ban plus a heavy fine would have been right and proper.
    SHould he slip up again then he is entirely at the mercy of the FA, the premier league, the law and even the club itself.....

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  35. Redheart, this isnt a Utd vs Liverpool thing. Its a PC vs justice thing. The BBC are one the most PC institutions around

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  36. Have a look at your poll Jaimie, 91.1% say he shouldn't apologise and it was a good thing to do, therefore you are wrong!

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  37. well said Ian, this was my point, this whole conversation was started and ended in Spanish. You cannot simply then switch to English context by picking out the odd word here and there. Listen, this guy has been condemned by the FA, they are saying he is no racist, but who's listening ? he's been hounded by the media well before this case. Jamie, you'd do well to be better informed, read the articles by Paul Tomkins, Rob Gutmann and Jim Boarman as otherwise you're as uninformed as all the others out there.

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  38. Polls don't mean a lot, especially on this site however:  It does in this case show what pole these fans are at..
    Jamie needs to be applauded for his (sometimes) wise words & I can't disagree that the club could've supported Suarex in other ways rather than the shirt thing BUT the players wanted it, fine by me.
    Jaime & his agreeable folk here on this site have an opinion but the facts of the case, the report from the FA & the punishment meated out are full of holes.
    John Terry SHOULD be jailed based on the same criteria & handling but wait and see, he'll get away with a soft punishment or worse still he'll go free entirely.  Now, on that case, it WAS witnessed & the offended player has agreed with the witness.....

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  39. Suarez will forever feel he owes LFC a debt of gratitude for the way the club has supported him and even through all the criticism the club received for it, they still stood their ground and supported him. The T-shirts were never meant to offend but instead to show Suarez how strongly they supported him.

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  40. IMO everybody should at the least give some praise to Suarez for being bloody honest. The whole case was 'almost' based on his honesty, admitting that he said the word. What do you think would have happened if Suarez didn't admit saying the word??? Absolutely nothing, case closed!
    And on another note, a racial abuse does not imply only abuse on colour but also on ethnicity, race. Didn't Evra admit saying "Don't touch me, you South American." Isn't that a racial abuse!!! Oh, and for the record he didn't use the word 'negro' but 'negrito'....(not implying that for the UK would not be considered racial abuse) but as in the UK they use the word 'fag' and it just means a cigarette, in the US you would be charged of insulting someone as gay.
    YNWA

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  41. You state "how the T-shirt fiasco appeared to the outside world." The fact is you don't know how it appeared to the rest of the world, only the political agenda driven media bubble in which you now seem to exist. I personally believe that to the "outside world" it appeared exactly what it was, a show of solidarity by his team mates, which in my opinion should be applauded. 

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  42. The Poll shows exactly what I thought it would, i.e., many Liverpool fans prioritise the individual over the club. The poll has, in fact, proved the point I've been making for years, which is many modern fans deify players to a damaging extent, and will continue to do so even when the club's name is being dragged through the mud.

    The poll result so far is an embarrassment to Liverpool fans.

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  43. Load the dice? Nonsense. I don't force people to vote; they make up their own minds.

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  44. Actually, he simply called Evra 'black' with no connotations behind it. He may have been guilty of his charge of using Evra's colour as a taunt, but for want of an annoying retort to answer 'Why did you kick me?' which is a really silly question to ask on a football pitch. There was neither malice nor menace in it. His act may be wrong and his ban deserved, but he acted innocently in terms of the implications the media is trying to cast on him. In that sense, he is indeed the victim, which is why the club and his fans are fully behind him.

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  45. I believe it shows any potential signings you are joining a club that will defend you tooth and nail, consider it was one of you children would you ask them just to hush up and take it because you would make your family look bad. 

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  46. The club is obviously more interested in justice than being PC, regardless of what the media and the FA think. For over 2 decades, the club has fought against the media and institutions for the honour and dignity of 96 supporters. Surely double standards should not be adopted against one of the club's very own in letting him walk alone through adversity.

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  47. It's not in Dalglish's mindset or nature to backtrack, he has stood his ground and any Liverpool fan should be proud. Personally I love that we have a manager who is willing to stand up to the world for something he, along with the whole club, believed was right, irrespective of what the biased London media or anyone else thinks. Bravo King Kenny.
    YNWA

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  48. More of an embarrassment to you as I see it. Support for your club and team-mates good, criticism of said support BAAAD!

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  49. Would Robbie be in black face?

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  50. Important CYA use of the word 'many' there Jaimie! Not 'all'. Some of us were more concerned with the loopholes in the case and the fact that it was basically a biased trial in the public eye.

    Not to mention the peripheral politics that surrounded it - the FA making a rather crass example of Suarez (8 games for what he said was rightly considered harsh - Roy Keane was given 3 games and a 5 grand fine for maiming Alfe Inge Haaland); the Blatter rubbish; the Terry rubbish; etc etc.

    Suarez deserved punishment for what he said - don't get me wrong. But what Liverpool have argued is that he didn't exactly receive a fair trial because of what I've mentioned above and he was being demonised (for want of a better word) by the general public who seemed to just blindly accept one side of the case and totally ignore the other.

    As someone else pointed out above, the teeshirts were probably a little cheesy, but I was actually happy to see us stand by our man in the face of (at the time) such potentially flawed public opinion.

    But listen - if you want to continue calling US sheep without even questioning your own stance in this, then go ahead. Knock yourself out mate.

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  51. You and Ian do not know for a fact there were no 'connotations behind it'.

    Ian - don't accuse me of being a xenophobe just because I don't agree with you.  I have supported Suarez to the hilt over this issue, and the countless articles I've written about the situation show this.

    You and so many other still cannot be objective.  The use of the word 'negro' in an adversarial context is wrong.  Suarez and Evra were in an adversarial situation on the pitch, and it is clear from the video footage that they were arguing.

    In any event, using the word negro on a football field can never be the correct thing to do, which is why Suarez deserves a ban.

    Accepting it would give kids everywhere the license to start calling each other 'Negro' on the school football pitch.  Is the kind of precedent you want to set?! 

    People need to stop placing the needs of the individual (Suarez) over the club and what's good for the sport overall.

    That is what is happening here - fans - as usual - are so blinded by their love for a Liverpool player they can't see the wood for the trees.

    If fans genuinely cared more for the club over the individual then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

    No one is denying that Suarez has been harshly treated; I have highlighted this on many occasions; however, condoning actions that have negative consequences on the game, and on the club is not the right way to proceed.

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  52. What do you mean 'letting him walk alone through adversity'?!  Are you suggesting that the ONLY way LFC could support Suarez is by wearing T-Shirts?  Give me a break.  Suarez has been backed to the hilt, and that still would've been the case without the wearing of tacky t-shirts.

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  53. Suarez said a word in spanish that was 'probably' used in a derogatory way. You have no evidence to back up whether or not it was said in a derogatory way other than your opinion.

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  54. I agree one hundred percent... What Suarez said was foolish but he doesn't appear to be a racist, as headlined by the Daily Mirror and others the following day. The FA's decision has allowed the media to portray Suarez as a racist, which is unfair and unproven given the nature of the evidence given in the investigation. Liverpool have every right to publicly support their man.

    The FA seems to be becoming more and more totalitarian. You can't question or publicly criticise them without the threat of punishment. If they were a government and carried out the investigation like they did in real time and operate like they do, people would be on the streets protesting. It's a joke. 

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  55. The language they were speaking doesn't matter!  It's just another lame excuse. This is the UK; judging by the video footage, a fair conclusion to draw is that the word negro was used in anger.  That was wrong, end of story.

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  56. The real issue is why, if Liverpool were aware of unpredictable and unfair media agendas, did they choose to battle this issue through the press so excessively? It was like Kenny and Liverpool couldn't wait for press conferences to put over his latest propaganda piece. From complaints that the process was taking too long, to interviews in Uruguay, to tweets, to public demands for written reports, to t-shirts during a live televised game, to rambling official press statements, to media solicited peace talks, it's been like an all-inclusive media circus. 

    In the meanwhile Man Utd said little to nothing about the whole thing and treated the subject with the sensitivity and caution that it deserves. Now that the media have reacted to every statement and missive sent by Liverpool but have not agreed with the club now it's all the media's fault. 

    I'm actually disappointed that the club left Kenny on Front Street like that. Kenny is an expert on football matters but not so much with race. The Chief Exec should have taken over and not left a middle aged white guy who's best mate still refers to black people as coloured (not racist just not exactly 'aware') to navigate the intricacies of race relations when merged with tribalism, general ignorance and mob mentality. If as reported the guy who racially abused Tom Adeyemi, was wearing a Suarez t-shirt then it will be an unfortunate example of how talking fast and loose about race issues can quickly inspire racists to believe that they have legitimacy and a general consensus for their twisted views and behaviour.

    Put it this way, if racists can take the British flag and turn it into a symbol of racial aggression what do you think they'll be able to do with a Suarez t-shirt?

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  57. For the love of god, I implore you: grow up.

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  58. Suarez did taunt Evra to wind him up. That is insulting/abusive behaviour that is worth a 4 match ban. The debate here also isn't about the word Suarez used being racist - it simply means 'black', it was indeed a reference to Evra's colour which made it another 4 matches out.

    The problem was that the FA simply delivered their verdict and left Suarez to swim in it while he was being circled by media sharks skewing proceedings to label Suarez a racist. Suarez's actions were neither racially nor hate motivated but this is where he is being victimised by being labelled otherwise, inducing a hate campaign against him.

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  59. "The poll rest so far is an embarrassment to Liverpool fans"

    I find that very patronising.

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  60. Jaimie you seem to be more concerned about how Liverpool appears to others, rather than being concerned about finding the truth and that is wrong IN MY OPINION

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  61. Show me where I used the word 'sheep'. You said it, not me.

    I am also concerned with how the case was handled, and I think I've proved that with many in-depth articles slamming the FA's conduct throughout the case.

    You are right that Suarez has been demonised by the general public, but Liverpool have contributed to that with their ridiculously overwrought reaction to the situation.

    If the club had gone about things calmly and rationally, things could've been so different, and Liverpool's side of the story could've been presented in the right way.

    The club could've rationally laid out the problems with the FA's decision; it could've highlighted inconsistencies; it could've highlighted the very real injustice of the FA's findings of fact, and it could've presented this info to the general public in a calm, considered manner.

    Instead, the club took the victim approach, and lashed in an emotive, senseless manner, which invited nothing but scorn from the outside world. After that happened, it seems no one is interested in listening to the truth anymore, and who can blame them after Liverpool destroyed their own credibility.

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  62. Negro is in the dictionary... predominantly used as a simple term to describe a person of black ancestry or appearance. Though saying that to get into a argument involving comments regarding race is a certain banana skin in this country... They could be taken out of context!

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  63. Utter nonsense. if you did some research on the site, you would see that I have written more in-depth articles attacking the FA's decision than anyone else on the net. I have gone into great detail showing exactly how I feel the decision was unfair. I also revealed panel member Denis Smith's potential bias before anyone else.

    I am concerned about all aspects of the situation.

    How Liverpool appears to others IS important, and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

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  64. The poll result so far is an embarrassment to Liverpool fans.

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  65. why are my comments being shown then removed Jamie ?

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  66. You are an embarrassment to Liverpool fans. Nearly everything you ever write about LFC is critical and not supportive. 

    I think you only really care about hits to your web page hence the sensationalist articles.

    I will never click on another of your links ever again - your sincerity is not to be trusted.

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  67. Of cause it matters when it is being translated into a number of languages!
    What your saying then what was said doesn't matter then!!!!!!!!!

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  68. How can I go on with my life after this crushing disappointment?

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  69. Jaimie K Your starting to see the deep seated feelings people hold.
    This is going to get worse mark my words.

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  70. Is it the teeshirts you didn't like Jaimie? Maybe if they'd been red with a white motif instead of the other way round???

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  71. Yes it is, because Evra and Fergie in their original complaint they said Suarez used N****r that is what they had to prove and it wasn't said!

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  72. I'm pretty sure your wrong there, you only have to look on news now, which links to associated sites all over the world to know that's not the case

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  73. Yes, the design was all wrong. Liverpool could've at least had them professionally designed.

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  74. I agree that the club can be a bit.... ummmm.... embarrassing at times - and some of the supporters are no better - but I felt at the time of the Wigan game that the teeshirt thing pointed to an almost resignation that we weren't going to win against the FA (who, incidentally, had at that stage spent 9 weeks deliberating over it - I'd be surprised if Liverpool felt we were going to win an appeal: we knew Suarez was going to have to take his punishment).

    Therefore I'll repeat, the teeshirt-wearing was a public show of support for a teammate who, we felt, hadn't been treated fairly, and I personally feel that an apology for that is unnecessary and would be unwarranted.

    Perhaps an apology from Suarez to Evra would be in order had Evra not similarly 'racially-abused' Suarez (for fuck's sake - 'abused'!), but I can see why Suarez might be reluctant to do so because of this. Still, being the bigger person here might go some way to alleviate things.

    In my opinion, the only people who should genuinely apologise are Liverpool's legal team who firstly allowed Dalglish's post-match comments to the referee to be used in the tribunal; who managed to make grave errors in the drafting of the statements; and who also neglected to supply their own 'linguistic experts', thus forcing Liverpool to use the FA's pre-selected equivalent.

    I'm totally convinced that we could actually have successfully defended Suarez had we not shown a similar behind-the-scenes ineptitude in comparison to Manchester United that we have all too glaringly displayed in every aspect of our dealings in the last 20 years.

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  75. Oh, and when I said that you had called us 'sheep' - well, like Evra when he said "He called me 'nigger' 10 times..." - I was speaking figuratively.

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  76. Too late, the damage has been done by Liverpool and Dalglish as the fans simply won't have any kind of other attitude now. 

    It is a really a poor show from Liverpool and quite a lot of our fans.

    Disappointed. 

    The club acted like a angry teenage poster on a forum, instead of a professional football club. 

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  77. I haven't called you a xenophobe just because I don't agree with your point of view.
    I label you as one because you are seem unwilling to accept the idea that different cultures place different meanings on certain words such as "negro".
    Just because this word is normally associated with being derogatory in our culture, doesn't mean thats the right way.
    If was said by an englishman to another englishman in england than thats a different issue, but It wasn't, It was said in response to a frenchman speaking in spanish in his native uruguayan spanish.
    In my opinion this fact opens up the clear possibility that missunderstandings could take place.
    I have never said that the reputation of Liverpool FC is not important, it is, just not as important as finding and highlighting the truth.  

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  78. If it doesn't matter? Why did the FA highlight Evra speaks 5 languages? Even though his father was a dipolmat so his education is going to be a 100 times better then a boy from Uruguay, who has done well to learn Dutch and is now learning English?
    One word in the favour of Evra but the same thing could apply to Suarez is dismissed as a negative?
    They mention Evra was the French captain, but miss out the fact he was stripped of it!
    Caused a huge racist problem in France as well in the French Football Federation because of what happened at the World Cup.
    You just don't get why Liverpool are angry you just see negro which you has a racist have translated into the English racist term with video evidence with no sound.

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  79. How about an article on the prasie from Oldham to Liverpool? Oldham and its players have set an example to the Premier League and the FA in how you should deal with a racist complaint.

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  80. Was that a Spanish/Uruguay dictionary or the English Oxford dictionary?

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  81. I assume that would be associated media sites. I was referring to real people without an idealistic axe to grind.

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  82. I'm more surprised that I haven't seen lots of knobends pointing out that 'KK' is just a 'K' away from 'KKK'.



    I mean, I've seen 'Klanfield' written somewhere, but nobody's had a dig at king Kenny yet.



    I mean, he MUST be racist.... right?.....



    PS: Can we start calling Glen Johnson 'Token' yet?

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  83. I'll still click Jaimie, but you'll have to buy me flowers first. I've got hurt feelings.

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  84. Hear Forest were singing "Your not English any more" to Leicester fans on 
    Saturday. 

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  85. Have to agree that this is only going to get worse. Can we not get on with life. Suarez has been tried, and in my opinion, harshly sentenced. He has started his suspensions so that all this chest beating about referring it back to the FA is ridiculous. If they were to admit (ho, ho, ho!) that they were in the wrong and that the punishment was too severe, what would they do about it? They can hardly give him a credit note saying that his next three or four red cards are on them! In three weeks time the whole thing is set to rear its ugly head again when we play MU. Is it asking to much to let it rest for the time being and concentrate on some positive aspects. Mistakes have been made all around, but this constant bitching is going to achieve nothing !

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  86. Good post, your point in the first paragraph is something a lot of our fans are overlooking.

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  87. JJ - The comment was in reply t o Jaimie's comment but I didn't/still don't have a reply tab beneath the comment, apologies for the confusion

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  88. i think the club should get 10000 printed and put them on the seats in the kop on the 28th january, now thats a fuckin statement!!

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  89. sayin that it will probably be the 29th, no doubt we will be on telly!!!lol

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  90. Just because the poll results doesn't agree with your opinion, you feel have the authority to judge other liverpool fans as an embarrassment.
    Liverpool FC has fans from all over the world, they have opinions and I would guess that its not just because they support Liverpool.
    Your comment comes across very condesending imo

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  91. Brian I understand what you are saying, but just try and put yourself in the position of someone who has been accused of a crime (e.g. racist abuse) and you know you are innocent. Then you are convicted based on the balance of probabilities by, then publically branded as a racist for the rest of your life, would you honestly be able just move on? I would find that a really hard thing to do.

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  92. Jaimie why has my post been removed?

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  93. Needless personal attack. The comment policy is clear on this. If you have a problem with me then email and we can discuss it.

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  94. I was there mate, and it was the Suarez song, and THEN your a town full of racists, and then the Suarez song being sang to drown out Oldham singing that.

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  95. So, Ian, any more Uruguayan rules that you think we should adopt while we are at it?

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  96. Jaimie, I recommend, if you haven't done it yet, to google for and read a blog:  media on racism: part 1 - churnalism
    It's an interesting read, and states some points from an impartial point o view.

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  97. Like who exactly? I hope this is a joke!

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  98. Totally agree, Jamie, embarrassed that 90% of supporters are willing to justify someone bringing up race during an argument if they play for Liverpool. I also worry how they conduct themselves with people that they know, although I doubt they have non white friends for long if they behave in this way themselves.

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  99. Jamie the point is that his charge want 'did Luis Suarez say the word negro' because then, he would have lost the case. The charge was did he use racist abuse' well, no, Suarez needs to know he is abusing someone racially to be guilty of it, do you understand where I'm coming from? If I was being done for theft because I had someones money in my pocket I don't think it's fair if I say I didn't realise it was there. The FA should have to prove the intent was there, Siarez shouldn't have to prove it wasn't because in this country it's innocent til proven guilty. I believe in others it is guilty until proven innocent.

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  100. Damo, you sound like Hitler youth, following the crowd, no matter what. In the context of this issue, the crowd is LFC and its supporters. Jamie is totally right to question it and the world would be a far worse place if people didn't question stuff. Presumably, 100 years ago, you would have been letting them put your kid up the chimney as well. Not wanting to rock the boat.

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  101. You reckon Suarez will feel indebted to LFC in a year if Real Madrid are coming in for him? And he can go to a country where you can call a player negro whenever you like? Azhar, you are being naive!

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  102. Negro, -A

    adjective1. black (color)2. tanned (bronceado, moreno)estar negro, -a -> to have a deep tan
    Negro in the Spanish Dictionary no mention of race!
    The Dutch for negro is zwart!
    People mention Holland but they don't use the word negro!

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  103. Hi Chucky - with respect, the initial FA charge was not 'did he use racist abuse', it was:

    "It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules.

    "It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra".

    Suarez is guilty of the above:

    * He did use abusive/and or insulting words towards Evra

    * He did make a reference to Evra's colour.

    It's an objective test; intention is irrelevant.

    In any event, I think we're at cross purposes here; I've argued all along that the FA's 'findings of fact' were wrong (i.e. that Suarez said 'I don't talk to blacks' etc). It's unfair to convict him of those, so I agree with you.

    However, Suarez is, as a matter of irrefutable fact, guilty of referring to Evra as 'Negro', and IMO he deserves to punished for that.

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  104. Yes. He's a Barça fan.

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  105. How about "We Shall Overcome" the song The Kop could sing?

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  106. Wow, some people on here still think Suaraz to be a beacon of honesty and Evra a big liar. Very Strange. Suarez has probably had the backing of the LFC legal team all this time, they have looked at all the evidence the FA would have had access to and he was probably advised to admit to saying negro, as it could be proven from the footage. The cultural stuff is probably a load of bull and the best excuse they could think of. Do you really think LFC's legal team left him in the lurch to come out with that lame excuse? Whatever Suarez admitted to is probably the least he has done.

    Another thing is that this is not a court of law, all this stuff about proof is nonsense. Otherwise, UEFA could not have found Real Madrid guilty of deliberately getting red cards a year ago. I'm sure all the FA's apply similar principles on these cases. So, if the probability, in the panel's case, was that Suarez was arguing with Evra and made a comment, based on race, that was inappropriate, they don't have to prove it.

    Regardless, if someone is charged with a doping offence, their supporters do not wear a t shirt of them to support them. LFC should have stopped messing about with this and looked as if they took the issue seriously. Their behaviour, considering the amount of understanding they have asked for relating to other issues, has been disrespectful to the issue and disrespectful to very many of their own supporters around the world. The fact that a follow up incident happened on the Friday, shows how badly the misjudged this, and now even more of their supporters are alienated. Bad PR and a terrible misjudgement of the situation. 

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  107. Ian, well try to put yourself in the place of a black LFC supporter, and your fellow supporters are now shouting abuse at opposition players, the club are condoning their own player, who admitted it, refererring to another player's skin colour during an argument, and the players and supporters are now prancing around in t shirts to support him. As another poster put it, do you think they would be supporting him if it had been Christian Poulsen? This whole thing stinks of dishonesty. The real issues have been put aside due to his importance and club loyalty by the supporters, who would condone most things done by their important players.

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  108. Not really, Septimus, it is just going to get honest. People will show their true feelings. Maybe not a bad thing and maybe some more of the racists can do a bit of time to think about things.

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  109. John Barnes never let it get to him? I went to many a game, particularly for England, where it clearly did get to him. No one ever wonder why his best performances for England were nearly all away from home? Anyone wonder why that piece of rubbish, Waddle, who missed a penalty and got us knocked out of the world cup, was never booed the way Barnes was? He wasn't fit to lace Barnes' boots? Why do you think England supporters were so quick to boo Barnes? England 6 San Marino 0, the most shocking treatment of an England player I have ever witnessed. So, tell me, where the real agenda is. Barnes played two of the best games ever played by an England player, his Brasil goal and his cameo that nearly got us to knock Argentina out of the World Cup. Not good enough for your England fan of the day. Now, racism in football is a PC agenda! Shame that so many players and supporters are happy to play up to it. 

    So which to fear? I know some nice stupid people, but not any nice racists.

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  110. At what point is is relevent to mention the player's colour during that argument? None? I didn't think so. Do you shout out 'ginger!' in the middle of a disagreement with your mate, for no reason? Anyone believing that Suarez's lame excuse is anything but the best him and the LFC legal team could come up with at the time is being naive. What he has admitted to is likely to be the least that could be proved. Can't believe that 91% of LFC supporters think it ok to mention someone's race during an argument about football. Have to make sure me and my mates are not in the same pub as you lot at any time. We have a pretty mixed group and that kind of rubbish would not be tolerated, in any direction, by anyone else.

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  111. Evra started the argument Evra chased after Suarez to continue the argument Evra is the instigator of the trouble!
    Negro in Spanish has nothing to do with race.

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  112. Gab Im not saying we should adopt any of uruguayan rules, Im just saying that a uruguayan person used a phrase in spanish to a Frenchman in England. Its not a straight forward issue.
    Its very possible that Suarez intent has been missintrepeted.
    He might be guilty, but we can't be sure either way.
    I just think people are not open minded enough to judge this incident fairly

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  113. Ian - re your last comment; it flagged the word filter and was held for moderation. It's now live. Ignore my comment about a personal attack - that was meant for another poster with the same username as you (!).

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  114. Exactly what BillyNWA said, the media bubble that surrounds it. It's all hype, blown out of proportion and context... Do you honestly think your average joe thinks liverpool fc are a crowd of racist enthusiasts? Or rather supporting their player through a disastrously handled case by the FA?

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  115. The problem lies with the manner in which this act has been covered in the media.  It's been reported and portrayed as an act to support/condone racism. While it was clearly never any more than a show of support for a teammate, that has been clear from all of LFC's statements which have been in strong support of anti-racism measures/programmes. 
    The way it was reported by substandard media was/is the problem, whether as part of an agenda or just incompetance; they were unable to seperate the charge against Suarez from this act of support and have perpetuated this myth often enough to have allowed it take hold in the public domain.
    So now Kenny finds himself having to address this in his recent interviews on the topic.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/09/kenny-dalglish-liverpool-racism?newsfeed=true

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  116. Gab

    Suarez admitted to saying the word "Negro"

    His and Liverpool's argument is that Suarez never said the word "negro" within a sentence that would be classed as "an abusive comment" Due to the uruguayan culture.

    The club haven't condoned abusing anyone, people should never be subjected to abuse of any type for any reason especially race

    Whether you believe LFC's argument, thats your choice

    Christian Poulson is scandinavian, so they couldn't possibly use the same argument.

    If this had happened to another uruguayan player who wasn't as important as Luis Suarez obviously is to LFC I hope they would have acted the same.

     

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  117. They aren't children... If I wanted to were a t-shirt of support into my place of work and was pulled up and told to take it off by the management, I'd be greatly offended, and much more to the point, it would have a negative effect on dressing room moral to apprehend the players desire to do so. The complete opposite of the reason they chose to do it at all.

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  118. I disagree man, I think it sends a clear message of the image of the club. Solidarity in the face of injustice. Everybody knows liverpool fc not support racism or racists. It's only twisted journalists/slanderers to the club who see at as the former...

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  119. Would that be black sheep or white sheep?

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  120. Do you really think that's the only reason someone would vote no?
    The only reason I happen to think the t-shirt stunt was not a bad idea is because I deify Suarez, or Kenny, or some other player???
    He deserved a ban but in the eyes of his teammates he deserved support also.  While these two issues are obviously linked they are seperate.

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  121. Well said, people want to see Liverpool lie down and take it whether the judgement was right or wrong.

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  122. Exactly. You shouldn't say sorry if you didnt do anything wrong!

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  123. Relax. I wasn't stating 'opinion', I was stating 'fact'. Barnes said all that in an interview, like, yesterday.

    And please, don't be so prejudiced - some of my best friends are stupid...

    ;)

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  124. I don't understand how you can be given an eight match ban for  racist comments but not be a racist? Can you not refer to the colour of someones skin without it being offensive? If not surely its racism? 

    And why was Evra making a case to the FA if he didn't believe Saurez was a rascist? Evra is trying to frame Suarez as a rascist and the FA want to be seen to be doing something about racism but are mindful of the implications of outrightly labelling Saurez a racist. It makes little sense and less justice the way they have adjudicated the case.

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  125. ONE fan out of 45000 get it right!

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  126. Token Johnson.

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  127. this whole fiasco is disruptive to the team.  We've got important fixture list ahead of us and we do not need this distraction.  Surely this will impact the players mental state, they are human and they read and hear the negative media attack on the club.  

    January and February is by far Dalglish's most important period since he's return to the club.  It's a make or break period for the team, we have to have focus entering into these games, and I'm afraid this racism issue may jeopardise our chances of success.

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  128. No it isn't because then it opens up an avenue for people to use negro as a racist slur but then claim that it wasn't. It's not like the word doesn't also have negative connotations in Uruguay, as has been suggested by several sources. As the report stated they did not believe, on the balance of testimony, that Suarez used the term in a conciliatory fashion.

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  129. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=osSV2crMY4U
    What Evra REALLY said to Suarez!

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  130. Nothing has gone quiet on the Terry front. He's due to face court to answer police charges in early February, the 1st I think. The FA won't make any public decision before that case has ended so that they can't be accused of influencing the verdict.

    Suarez stated his use of the word, so there's no denying he said it. The question then boiled down to how many times it was said and in what context. Here Suarez had his story muddied by Comolli and Kuyt, and then offered some fairly illogical reasoning for his actions.

    Comolli's admission looks like nothing more than backtracking. Maybe he did misunderstand but you'd think that, given the statement he provided and the potential impact from the case, Comolli and Liverpool might have made every effort to find out exactly what Suarez said?

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  131. Evra should of used negro then!

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  132. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=osSV2crMY4U
    This is what Evra said to Suarez.

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  133. Racist groups are going to use a mix race Afro-Uruguayan  for their new race
    campaign! Just see the KKK using a South American on their next World Wide
    campaign to get more members or NF/BNP using a foreigner for the next General Election.
    Real racist groups hate mix race minority and so does the FA!

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  134. What are you talking about Suarez has always admitted to saying negro!
    You need to read the report!!!!

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  135. the t-shirts was not disrespecting racism in my eyes, think it was support against a person like patrice evra, black or white.
    anyone who watched that game closely could see evras game plan.
    is it sad and embarassing when players used to score and lift there shirt to show a message? wats the difference?
    im proud the players and kenny showed full support for suarez.
    why didnt suarez just deny it? there was no proof was there?
    shows hes an honest decent guy, who thought he was in the right.
    this all can only make us stronger as a club

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  136. Agreed. Doesn't change the fact that the board looked at all the testimony and found in favour of Evra. You're constant argument of this point fails to take into account that Suarez was found guilty of using a word that he admitted to having said.

    Should Evra's own abusive comments be looked in to? Absolutely. Did his version of events have some irregularities? Yes but not of the same magnitude as Suarez's.

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  137. At last a sensible opinion. I thought I was in a twilight zone of race relations.

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  138. You need to read his post. He has obviously read the report and is absolutely correct in his assertions. You just don't refer to someone's race in the middle of a heated argument and then pinch his skin.

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  139. Suarez was simply getting wise to Evra to wind him up but wasn't so wise with his choice of words. The winding up was 4 matches, the choice of word was another 4. Regardless of whether it's offensive, the rules are the rules. It was not racially motivated, hence it wasn't racism and this was acknowledged by both Evra and the FA.

    Evra made the case because he could and he wanted to get at Suarez. The way the issue was blown up by the media meant that Suarez was an easy target and a convenient example to make. The FA knows Suarez is not racist, but they have failed to highlight it sufficiently to prevent people getting on Suarez's case.

    There may not be any justice in the adjudication of the case, but the application was not incorrect and the FA had an agenda of setting a precedence. There are 2 approaches available to the application of laws, the purposive approach and the strict approach. It is clear the strict approach was adopted as a purposive approach would only have resulted in a 4 match ban and the race issue would never have been addressed. This is the first injustice out of 2.

    The second injustice as a result of the FA's agenda was the test applied which was the balance of probabilities. A beyond reasonable doubt standard would have allowed Suarez to walk, but it would have wasted the FA's time. To prevent the likelihood of such instances ever coming up again, it was in the FA's interest to create a situation where footballers will consciously avoid even allowing for the opportunity to pit one man's word against another. Given the gravity of consequences, surely the test ought to have been of criminal law standards, but instead, the balance of probabilities test was adopted to set the precedence, once again, in the FA's favour. Injustice number 2. But that said, there is alot of sense(for the FA) in the way the case was adjudicated, even if there is no justice in it.

    The FA cannot label Suarez as racist and have even acknowledged he is not, and they cannot call him one as he would then be able to sue them for libel. However, the FA has indeed caused damage in that respect by shirking the responsibility of complete transparency. The FA will say they have been transparent in posting the case on their website, but not everyone is going to read it. The media loves to create villains, so they aren't about to highlight the fact that both FA and Evra believe Suarez is not racist, something the club has now undertaken and that the FA ought to have done.

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  140. That's just 1 way of looking at it. The club's stance is clearly to prioritise backing the player over being PC. Some may very legitly view image as being more important than integrity, dignity and ideals and some may equally legitly adopt the opposite angle.

    In that sense, it is not fair to say fans are prioritising the individual over the club, because if the club was to indeed demand an apology from Suarez, perhaps the poll might have swung the other way.

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  141. I'm from the other side of the planet. and your club looks amateurish and badly managed/advised to many over here. Shankly once made a comment about the importance of football. Some of you seem to have taken it quite literally. Dalglish once showed, with dignity, that there were more important things in life than football. He is badly letting himself and the club down. Perhaps he is just too old to have kept up with a changing World.Perhaps just too arrogant. The "it's ok in Uraguay" argument is utter cobblers. No one likes their appearance to be constantly recalled when referred to. " Fat Fred" "Bald Brian" Goofy Luis"  and when it comes to race or colour that dislike is multiplied intensely. Perhaps when black people in Uraguay have more authority, that point will become clear to the appeasers. Racism is wrong, the comment was/IS racist. Apologise, to Evra, learn, move on. If the club continues to argue, you only encourage the numpties like that at the Oldham game, and some who have made comments on here

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  142. It did show a clear message steven, the exact opposite of the one you claim. Everybody does not 'know' Liverpool do not support racists, not when they have a player who was charged, admitted, and found guilty of using a derogatory racial comment and the club get the team to all wear shirts celbrating the fact.

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  143. Gab, well said mate, it only takes a little bit of common sense doesn't it. I also agree, that 91% is scarey

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  144. PC IS justice to many. Just not 91% of Liverpool supporters unfortunately

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  145. The supporting evidence came from Saurez. Doesn't hatter how many times you lie about it, he has admitted it, and again in his apology.

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  146. You believe him to be innocent although he has clearly admitted to making a racist comment. His ignorance is the defence the club claim, but that is merely mitigation, not a defence, it is also cobblers

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  147. Paranoid and unfortunately revealing. " successfully defended " the indefensible

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  148. It will also show potential signings that it's ok for the other players to call you "negro", which might deter you from signing

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  149. Aitchill happens to be a very good friend of mine, as you can see Gab.

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  150. I love this 'common sense' line you lot keep trotting out mate.

    Oh, the irony...

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  151. The poll isn't about what Suarez said it is about should they have worn the shirts!
    You seem confused like Evra about what was said!
    By the way I am mixed race and was brought up to be proud of who I am and I have been abused by White,Black and Asian for being mixed race!

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  152.  Suarez said negro I am not disagreeing with that! Suarez said he said negro but in a case as serious has this has be come, accusers in future should be made to say what was said on the field as their complaint and not change words to inflame the situation like Evra and Fergie did. Liverpool management running around to prove Suarez never said the N word like what was said to the ref after the game, has made this case has bad as it has come. Forget what Suarez said what is important at the start of a complaint is what the accuser has said and Evra and Fergie accused Suarez of saying  
    the N word and this is what has stuck with the Liverpool team. 

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  153. Don't go using words like N****r when you put your complaint in ,stick to the words that were said on the pitch or public,fans and Lawyers could turn around and call you a LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  154. There is a big difference between Political Correctness and Justice.

    IMO Being seen to be fair to everyone is different to finding the truth.

    I take offence to what you are implying about Liverpool supporters, but your entitled to your opinion

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  155. Race relations depend on people telling the truth about what was said especially if you are making a complaint!

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  156. Powar’s time at Kick It Out saw the organisation grow to become one of the most respected and recognised BRAND NAMES in sport, leading the way on issues of diversity and inclusion.Kick It Out websiteI didn't realise Racism and Discrimination was a BRAND to be used to make money from.Got plenty of publicity and money now! 

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  157. Franklybluemoan - you have summed up the entire matter perfectly. And for people to come on here saying 'why should we care what people think about us?' when we have been trying to get people to see our point over Hillsborough for years, well, it defies belief.

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  158. Yes, I can see that, he makes some good points, though!! ;)

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  159. One fan, and many others denying where this one fan got the nerve to behave like this. In fact, it was meant to have been two supporters, but that, I would think was two more than there would have been normally. The club's behaviour has made sure of that.

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  160. Hi Ian - I think that LFC and Suarez had a lot of time to come up with something, and that was the best they could do. I don't believe that people, in general, are in the business of being honest when there is big money involved, and I suspect that the very least Suarez said is what he admitted. And that did not convince people so he was found guilty. Strange that the poll at the top of the page would be more 50/50 were it open to supporters of all teams. So, now, football is more important than racism or general morality. From a club that has been wanting public support for justice of its own, this is a slap in the face. I have friends who are not supporters who put their name to certain petitions and wish they hadn't now, when they see the way LFC have handled this. The t shirt stunt does not take the issue seriously at all.

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  161. jj - Why not, do you know he did not say it. Like i said, Suarez has had legal support, what he admitted was probably the least he said. But he knew it could be proven. You really think he went to the tribunal, telling the LFC lawyer 'look here, i think i will admit calling the chap a jigaboo' and the LFC lawyer says 'good on you, old chap, that's rather honest of you, how refreshing.' Did he f*ck! At this point, I would rather believe Evra's account than Suarez, I'm afraid.

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  162. agree, ikcl, they were trying to support a team mate, but, in the end, wrongly did it in a way that trivialised the seriousness of the charge. Now they look stupid because a supporter saw this as an opportunity to shout nonsense last Friday and many believe that their attitude led to this. And who can blame them. Unless we are saying that our supporters do this every week. When Oldham, not know for great race relations, supporters are having a dig, you know you have scored a PR own goal.

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  163. Well, I'm sure that some of you would like to see a more PC attitude from others relating to events in our history. So it makes me laugh how anti pc some of you are.

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  164.  One fan who has shown himself up for what he his and be a lesson to others. 

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  165. Evra told the ref black he told Giggs Black he told his Spanish speaking team mates negro pretty simple really continuation of the same word in English and Spanish.

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  166. In what way has it trivialised the seriousness of the charge? People carry on saying it was a mistake for reasons such as that, but I fail to see how thats the case.
    It's obviously turned out to be a PR disaster, but i would maintain that this has little to do with Liverpool's actions or indeed intentions.

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