17 Jan 2012

Is Mark Lawrenson right with this unpopular opinion...?

Liverpool's chances of making the top four seem to be dissipating with every home game, and after fourteen points dropped at Anfield so far this season, the heat is most definitely on for Kenny Dalglish's underachieving team. Most fans probably see finishing outside the top four as a major failure, but, unsurprisingly, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson has a different view.

Earlier in the season, Lawro was blunt in his assessment of Liverpool's top four chances:

"I don’t think they’re quite good enough to finish in the top 4. I think it’s taking a little more time than they thought for the players to settle, but it’s just going to take some time.

"I think Tottenham are a better side in all honesty, and unless they have massive injury problems, I think they’ll make 4th".


On Ireland's Today FM show recently, Lawrenson added the following:

"They [Liverpool] can’t finish in the top four positions but 5th or 6th will represent progress for them".

Do you agree with this?



For me, finishing 5th or 6th would not be progress at all; it would be a step backwards. This season's stated goal is to finish in the top 4, and after spending tens of millions of pounds on reinforcing the squad, Kenny Dalglish will know that failure to achieve this will have serious repercussions.

Jaimie Kanwar


130 comments:

  1. So this is the legacy that Rafa has left us...thanks Rafa(!)

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  2. Finishing 5th or 6th would be no progress with the amount of money spent, and I'm becoming sick with this absolutely nonsense 'the new players need a bit more time to settle in' stuff.

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  3. At least they win a cup and not fall below 6 th place is good enough for the current performance. If u talk about spending a lot. Man City spend more and have to wait at least 2 years to see the effect

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  4. We can say that finishing 5th or 6th isn't progress and that we don't accept it, but what can WE do about it? Nothing.
    Fuck it, we WILL finish 6th and we'll be pissed off and moaning about it, but we'll just have to accept it because firing Kenny Dalglish isn't on the agenda.

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  5. Not Rafa's fault!

    Remember messieurs Hillet and Gicks? I suspect if Rafa had had the money he would have spent it better than Kenny did.

    Just got to keep supporting and hoper we can light up the pop as well as the travelling contingent do on their travels. The louder we sing the better they will play.

    Can't do it with the 11 on the pitch ten throw your efforts into being part of the twelfth man!

    Altogether now...


    KP

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  6. And I'm sick of this demand for instant success. One minute you all say how ridiculous the fees KK paid were (which I mostly agree with), the next you say that because of the amount we've spent we should be winning everything. So you think we vastly overpaid for average players - but that we should still be in the top four, purely on the numbers? 

    I strongly believe that this "work in progress" will come to fruition in just a few seasons, when hopefully we will dominate for some years. Then what will you all be saying?

    The negativity of most of the people on here is astounding. Mind you, given that Jaimie is of a similar ilk, I'm not that surprised! I have never seen so much negativity from LFC fans. I was always of the feeling that we weren't like the mancs, Chelsea etc - "only sing when you're winning" - but I suppose the money and demand for instant success in today's game has done for that.

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  7. If Liverpool don't finish 4th then Kenny and Comolli would deserve the sack.

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  8. it is a failure when you have spent over 100 million on crappy overrated british beef when will lfc fans get to grips with reality we sent out on loan aquailani cole and sold mereiles the players we desperatly miss plz no more british players 

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  9. i thought the players we bought already had premier league experience!! they don't need time to settle in!!!

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  10. Lawro is totally right here.
    I believe that "collective hysteria" won't never bring good things to any Club, Liverpool too.
    Jamie, When You described the whole Liverpool's situation like a mess, You forgot that We're only in January. Maybe Liverpool are still not good enough to get Cl's spot, but We're only in January and the season is long.
    Spurs are title contenders this season: that required time as last season Spurs were out of CL's football. What Would happen if Spurs fans would ask for manager's head?
    Liverpool changed three managers in the last three seasons: Do You think that removing Kenny from his hot seat is the proper way to run a great Club like Liverpool? I don't think so. Liverpool had serious struggles in the last two seasons: to fix all the problems wouldn't be an easy challenge  for anyone. Kenny needs & deserves a whole season to review the side like any manager of the planet can do. I'm sick of remember that Rafa would be out of CL in his first season in charge, if it wasn't for Istanbul miracle, and If We will be able to complete the job wednesday We'll enjoy a day out on Wembley Road. Good things required time. Most fans can't think to run Liverpool like their favourite football manager's side.

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  11. Oh yes, Rafa spent very little(!)

    He was a pauper(!)

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  12. It would be nice for the likes of Lawrenson to keep their views to themselves. Anything outside of a top four position is unacceptable and the manager should be held to account.

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  13. There is definitely some progress that the team made from the last season: i.e. a very solid defence. Last season we were very vulnarable in defence and that was a problem seen by most fans as the No.1 to solve.
    We have solved it, although one serious injury to Danny Agger or Martin Skrtel (and I am touching wood here) will undo it.

    Midfield: that's where we have regressed. Changing Meireles for Adam is the most insane thing that could be done. It's like selling your new Audi and buying a used Lada. Yes, it drives too... but it's not the same class and will never be. Henderson will maybe come good, but he needs courage. Good technical ability, but totally gutless. Whether it's his character or it's a thing that can be cured, I don't know.

    Downing and Carroll... let's just admit it... they are a disaster in progress, not a work in progress.

    So all in all, we made 1 step forward and 2 steps back, and if we don't admit the mistakes and try to fix them NOW, we will end up fighting with Stoke for the 7th. That is simply NOT what Liverpool club should be about. And then, as you may guess, there will be a rebuild again, and work in progress again. Again and again. For 21 years and counting.

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  14. There is definitely some progress that the team made from the last season: i.e. a very solid defence. Last season we were very vulnarable in defence and that was a problem seen by most fans as the No.1 to solve.
    We have solved it, although one serious injury to Danny Agger or Martin Skrtel (and I am touching wood here) will undo it.

    Midfield: that's where we have regressed. Changing Meireles for Adam is the most insane thing that could be done. It's like selling your new Audi and buying a used Lada. Yes, it drives too... but it's not the same class and will never be. Henderson will maybe come good, but he needs courage. Good technical ability, but totally gutless. Whether it's his character or it's a thing that can be cured, I don't know.

    Downing and Carroll... let's just admit it... they are a disaster in progress, not a work in progress.

    So all in all, we made 1 step forward and 2 steps back, and if we don't admit the mistakes and try to fix them NOW, we will end up fighting with Stoke for the 7th. That is simply NOT what Liverpool club should be about. And then, as you may guess, there will be a rebuild again, and work in progress again. Again and again. For 21 years and counting.

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  15. How the hell would it be progress ? Idiot .

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  16. I agree with you completely, I find it quite shameful. I don't understand how we have ONE year of spending (and quite a lot of selling too), an we suddenly believe we have a Devine right to be in that top four. Look at our competition

    Man United - years of success, consistency at management level and consistent spending.

    Man City - Filthy rich and their manager has been able to spend at will, he has also had more than twelve months in the job.

    Chelsea - as above, but excluding the line about the manager, they have also had the same board.

    Tottenham

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  17. If it wasn't for Rafa we would be talking about finishing in the top 4 of the championship this year, you miserable undertaker!

    The man fought tooth and nail with the previous owners who wanted to sell all the players for a quick profit.

    The man worked a minor miracle to keep us in with a chance of a top 4 finish, given that there was no investment in the team.

    The man revolutionized our youth setup and we will start to see the fruits of his labour in the next few years.

    So please... put the sarcasm away and start to read some books to improve your education and IQ.

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  18. And in answer to your statement NO! its not! But it is the legacy that Hicks and Gillette left us.

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  19. Its a disaster to end up 5th or 6th this is Liverpool we have lowered are standards enough by asking for 4th spot , really we want 1st .Downing  , Adam  and henderson are a joke , carroll is a joke as he is getting no service from the 3 jokers i just mentioned .I for one am sick of the negative gutless style of play . If you dont try and win then you wont , far to many draws at home as cost us 4th spot yet again .

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  20. Kenny will try and use Comolli as his human shield but KENNY HAS FINAL SAY ON PLAYER PURCHASES ....ERGO KENNY GOES COMOLLI STAYS 

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  21. In all honesty Rafa was the manager about £140mln ago so I fail to see how this is still his fault..We are competing for 6th with Newcastle who rebuilt a team for less than a third of KD's spend so to ignore all the changes in other teams and go back 2 seasons ago is really trying too hard to exonerate the ones who presently caused this problem.
    The owners supported the team by providing money, the fans have all been behind the team, The manager seemingly got his first choice targets with the exception of Jones so to then overlook all this and go back 2 season may not be the best reasoned opinion.
    We might as well go back to the 90s and start blaming the managers in that period then despite the club having spent hundreds of millions since then.
    our new owners are quite astute business people delivering good commercial success like record breaking warriors kit deal to complement the Standard Chartered sponsorship deal.
    Unfortunately it is the managers who consistently fail to get value for money when spending on players.
    For all the criticism you wish to level on Rafa, he did spend a lot of money in 6 years but KD has spend almost half as much in less than a year so it cant really be said he is being hampered by went on before him. In fact it could be argued he could hypothetically buy 10 new quality players priced at roughly £15mln or make that roughly 20mln euros,. 
    £15mln is enough to break the transfer record of nearly 3 quarters of the current premier league teams and mind you Arsenal's record buy was Jose Reyes quoted at around £17mln but the rest of their purchases have been for less than £15mln and they have made it to the champions league for over a decade without fail.
    Rafa had his faults so does KD and they are even separated by another manager and set of owners in between their spells.
    A simple example is when fans were publicly petitioning John Henry to sign Mata, the Liverpool management spurred on by press support for Downing were bullishly going against even attempting to take fan opinion seriously. 
    There is those who will argue that he didn't want to come but that line of thought is not backed up by anything other than being a convenient argument especially given Suarez agreed to join us while we had no chance of making the Champions league while leaving Ajax, a shoe-in for Champions league almost every season.
    So to sum up my thoughts, failing to make the top 4 will be an unmitigated disaster because we are not even guaranteed to match  6th of last season given Newcastle have been hounding us all season despite us spending primarily to make it to the top 4 and starting the season as one of the bookies top 4 favourites to win the title

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  22. Well said Billie Boy!

    Unfortunately our success in the CL and FA cup a few seasons ago as well as the good football we played under Rafa have attracted the wrong type of supporter. Usually these "armchair fans" would support the mancs and chelski along with all the other glory hunters but they liked LFC instead so they feel they have a right to criticize.

    And some of the criticism is not only unfounded and unjustified but has also become extremely personal with name calling and ridiculing at every opportunity.

    Beyond belief really.

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  23. I'm going to keep coming back to this again and again until many of you admit.
    THE FINAL SAY ON PLAYER PURCHASES LAYS WITH KENNY DALGLISH.

    If anyone tries to blame Comolli you'll find me saying the above every time.

    Many of you wanted Rafa out you got what you wanted and now look.

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  24. When Rafa was allowed to spend he brought in some very good players.

    Rafa wanted to bring in Simao, Danny Alves, David Villa and Silva.

    When Rafa was not allowed to buy the players he wanted he had to take chances on unproven players and some did not work out that well.

    If you're looking to blame why not apportion it to the real culprits; Hicks and Gillette.

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  25. AliNOT2smart. Cole is past it for the prem and Aqua is too slow for it. Mereiles handed in a transfer request on the last day of the transfer window and we did not have the time for a replacement.

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  26. What has the failures of this team got to do with Rafa? I recall many Liverpool fans applauding Dalglish / Comolli in the summer for getting rid of "Deadwood" and finally purchasing a squad that was the best LFC had "for many years" so since the summer KD has stamped his signature on this team.

    (Forgive me if you were being sarcastic, I can only assume you may not have been serious with the comment)

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  27. Well if you're becoming sick then please go to see the doctor who I'm certain will have a nice white jackets in your size waiting for you!

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  28. well said mate dalglish is an disaster!!! he bought 4 jokers for silly prices! also mereiles was told to hand in transfer request aquilani isnt too slow well he is quicker that buck tooth adam and andy 2 pints carroll wake stupid liverpool fans

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  29. Looks like most want instant results.....

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  30. One step forward with Rafas keeper and defence,and Rafas Lucas before he was injured and with Rafas youth system beginning to prosper,yet the part Dalglish has been given a fortune to overhaul has been nothing short of pitiful.

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  31. jk what are you suggesting in the last paragraph ? 5th or 6th not good enough, step backwards?, serious repercussions ?
    Are you suggesting KD be replaced and if that is the case replace him with who (seriously please dont suggest mourinho he is working, wouldnt be right for the club and wouldnt come anyway).
    I think that this season we will have underachieved due mainly to the points dropped at home through lack of fire power, if we only achieve 5th or 6th but i do think the club is in a lot better shape on and off the field than it has been for a long time. I will continue to support KD and hope the board do to.

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  32. Yes it is. Unfortunately Rafa has made 4th spot the bare minimum alot of younger fans have come to expect from the club! Rafa made it such that if we weren't playing in Europe, it would be seen as a disaster, of course you should be thanking him!

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  33. I get sick of reality too! Like you, I sometimes think reality is nonsensical, and that is why we dream!

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  34. Responsibility starts at the top. Downing has had a shocking start to his Liverpool career and appears lost on the big stage. Adam is a bench player at best he can't cross from set plays, defend to save his life and offer no more than one or two cross pitch pass that brings out the ouhs and aahs from the crowd. Carroll deserves a run and needs confidence give him a chance. What about some of the youngsters?? as well as much needed additions Defence great with 4 across not like against stoke. basis is there for a push for a top 4 - yes i believe so seen enough to suggust the talent is there but kk and sc clarke also need to stand and be challenged and take responsibilty for all decisions made

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  35. Blame RAFA - Blame KD - when do we blame the players and the person who actually bought the new players - Comolli.  (for me KD is old school Liverpool so you will probably never know for sure if the new lads were KD's choice or not) Can you really blame the Manager for the players anyway?  As a player on £60k a week playing against another player on £10k a week and not doing the job is unacceptable for me

    Not sure how you can say that Kenny Dalglish has the final say on a player - this has never been the FSG way! KD is certainly not going to come out and wash that dirty laundry (if indeed it is so) in public - it isn't the Liverpool way.

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  36. It's not sudden. It took Rafa 5 years, but he was responsible for instilling the belief that being in the top 4 is our divine right!

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  37. Appreciate where you are coming from, normally I would agree. For me though, considering the competition for that 4th spot, I think that Kenny has got it woefully wrong in the transfer market andhas actually set the Club back 3, 4 maybe 5 years to compete again with the teams currently above us. that's what gets my goat a bit, knowing that as a team we are no way near good enough . . . and its depressing

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  38. 4th spot was our standard before Rafa arrived...

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  39. Aquilani is way faster than Adam. If Adam is fast enough, then Aquilani is definitely fast enough too. Cole also happens to be younger than Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes, Giggs and Henry, all of whom have become very important for our respective clubs. If they aren't past it, how can Cole be?

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  40. The hypocrisy amongst some of the fans arguing "Rome wasnt built in a day" is laughable. It is completley clouded in viewing Kenny as a legend and not a manager.

    Roy Hodgson wasnt given time was he? Half a season, limited investment, club being taken over during his tenure... where was his support from the so called true supporters who are arguing get behind the team now? where was the gratitude of time to settle back then? 

    I guarantee that most fans will make an argument against giving Hodgson time and for giving Dalglish time which just goes to show the limited scrutiny Dalglish will have as he is the clubs best ever player and a legend. 

    A lot of money was injected into this squad in the summer and I recall a lot of fans, ex players and rivals arguing we are title contenders, what happend to that? Now all of a sudden based on the table position we are arguing that not making 4th would still be progress?

    If any other manager was in charge and finished outside the top 4 with this amount of investment I seriously doubt Lawrenson would be saying it was progress, unless of course he was a "pal" like Kenny is to him.

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  41. And playing in finals / semi finals was the standard when he was there.

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  42. first of all we heard about how buying Premiership "stars" would mean that there would be no settling in period and the team could just hit the ground running this year.

    As results and performances continue to decline more and more excuses are just being made up though.

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  43. How right you are Crems! KD's team's team tactics are too negative. In the last few games we have seen a Liverpool that is trying so hard not to lose with little attempt at winning. I for one am totally disappointed. Take the ManC debacle of last week, for example. How many defenders did we end up with? And all that to defend one goal, with the second leg on the way! GOALS with games, a fact that's slowly evading our technical team. To all you supporters, please stop encouraging mediocrity. This is Liverpool we are talking about, 6th spot is not good enough!!!

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  44. So because Mancini got away with underperforming for a year Dalglish should be allowed to do the same?

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  45. We were a top 4 club long before Rafa arrived...

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  46. How is the youth system 'just beginning to prosper'??

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  47. Wanting Benitez out and wanting Hodgson or Dalglish in are two totally seperate arguments...

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  48. naw, what's £100m in today's market afterall. As long as the team does a little bit better than under Hodgson, then the season has been an unqualified success...

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  49. What do you even know about FSG? I'm tired of ppl coming out with all these nonsense about the owners and their policies as if they're best mates or something!

    It has been made very clear that the manager signs players at LFC. Dalglish is accountable for his successes and failures, just as Benitez was before him.

    And if the club decides to offer a player who is worth £30k p/w, £60k p/w instead, do you really expect him to turn it down? Or that he suddenly ups his level of performance to that of a £60k p/w player?? No, he'll still be the same £30k p/w calibre, player just getting paid a lot more.

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  50. Some players age quicker and secondly, Joe Cole has never has fulfilled as much as of his so-called potential as much the guys you mention have.

    Embarassing that someone lists Joe Cole in the same breath as Scholes, Gerrard, Giggs and Henry. 

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  51. yet coming 4th in the league...

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  52. What the failures of Hodgson and this spell of KK has done is elevate Rafa, comically, to messiah status

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  53. We obviously just have different thoughts. Personally I think things will click, I think they've clicked up to the first 70% from Reina upwards of the pitch and considering we're 5 points from fourth and have outplayed every team above us (bar spurs) then we can't be as bad as people think. We need a bit more invention though to break down Stokes and our Wigans of the world. And obviously ALL of our team needs to contribute with regards to goals, because the service wasn't there at Stoke, but Kuyt didn't really do well with what he did receive. But I don't see why the panic, if we didn't have the ball an we're conceding an losing at home and our away form was shocking I could understand, but we're not.

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  54. 25/5/2005 did that...

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  55. Did he? We finished 7th on one occasion and finished 5th another-below Everton. We where just fortunate that we won the European Cup to get back in the competition. Aswell as this, there was only Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea that where serious competition. With the emergence of Man City and Spurs that are not one season wonders, it's always gonna be harder.

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  56. Flannagan,Robinson,Kelly,Spearing,Sterling,Coady

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  57. So one big success with most of GH's team overshadows the many failures of Rafa's reign? I'd agree....if we were a small club.

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  58. if kenny is given another season and a load of cash to spend on mid table dross, after finishing lower than 4th, the board need their heads testing.
    Rafa is another league to KD. spurs will get 3rd anyway, its between us , chels and arse for 4th. we have no chance the way were playing.
    KD's dream comeback is going to end in a nightmare at this rate.
    thanks for the memories.

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  59. What have Sterling and Coady done for the first team?

    What next? Suso the next Maradona?

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  60. Funny coming from a person that says 'youre'

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  61. So we didn't 5th and 7th under Rafa?

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  62. Erm we finished outside of the top 4 twice under Rafa

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  63. Took five years for fergie to win some thing at utd  it takes time to build a good side

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  64. thank god liverpool got him out for good

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  65. Read my comment Jay - ! I state that nobody knows for sure - that is unless you are indeed best mates with KD or FSG???

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  66. Yes and cut rafa's wage bill by 30 mill a year

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  67. Ah that old chestnut.

    Times have changed

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  68. grow up rafa's gone for good

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  69. Do you follow football at all or just like to argue.  Have you done any research on FSG at all?  I said not sure how people can clearly state if the transfer lies with FSG or KK.

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  70. What has our current position, lack of goals, inability to make Anfield a fortress got to do with Rafa? This is Kenny's team - his signings his responsibility

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  71. And now the possibility of it happening twice under Kenny is very real

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  72. I am also sure that under Rafa when we finished outside of the top four we had more games? Both seasons we finished outside of the top 4 we made a European semi final so whats the excuse now with less games and a larger squad?

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  73. Last Season Kenny re-vitalised The Club when We was fighting to avoid relegation under Hodge, sitting in 14th place, with 7 wins in a row.
    In 2011 January transfer window, with a master business, "a coup de theatre", Kenny dropped off the "shadow figure" Who was the first to run towards the tunnel after any game for £50ml of pounds, to release funds for next season. Jose Enrique is brilliant as well as Coates (one for the future), Bells (He's majestic role model for every Liverpool young player and Kenny bought him, no one decided for him) and Hendo, Who has to improve some offensive skills but He's undoutbably showed glimpses of class. Yes, Carroll & Downing are struggling but We're only in January and Who knows? You carry on the universal and absolute true in your pocket? How Many Players revert their career after a bad start?
    I can't understand why some "so called fans" are so obsessed to find valid point to shout "sack the Manager!!". They appears determined to picture a "black image" at any cost, a doomsday scenario. No, not, I will support the holy trinity: Manager, Club and my players excatly as I always do ( I DID THE SAME THING UNDER HODGEY), and hopefully We'll go down to Wembley.

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  74. Question - How is an article debating the CURRENT state of the team provided you with the insight to lay the blame on a manager who left back in 2010?

    I am just wondering why Rafa is actually involved in this debate? Is it personal?

    In the summer KD supposedly got rid of "deadwood" and signed "an improved" squad so this is his team - why does that not register with you?

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  75. Excuses, excuses, excuses, thats all we ever hear for Rafa's failings

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  76. Kenny ineherited a side (with most of Rafa's players) Who was sitting in 14th place...

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  77. Oh yes, 2010 was a long long long time ago(!)

    2010 is quite recent and his so-called legacy still has a impact in both positive and negative ways such as players he left and money spent, as suggested by FSG with their disgust at the situation of the squad when they came in

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  78. NEW SOMEONE WOULD TRY IT .....KENNY DALGLISH HAS FINAL SAY ON ALL PLAYER PURCHASES...FACT IT'S BEEN STATED.

    THESE PURCHASES ARE KENNY DALGLISH'S NOT COMOLLI.

    SO YOUR ATTEMPT TO ABSOLVE KENNY ARE PLAIN LIES OR MISINFORMATION

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  79. Some of this mess is down to your best mate Rafa, whether you like to admit it or not.

    KK hasn't done a great job but Rafa hardly left Liverpool in a great state for Hodgson and KK, as illustrated by FSG's disgust at the state of the club left by Rafa and co.

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  80. for sale mark lawrenson quote's to the highest bidder prepared to say anything if the price is right.

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  81. Rafa took us to 4 Euro Semi Finals, 3 Euro Finals, World Club Final, FA Cup, League Cup and Charity Shield triumphs. Twice broke our Premier points record and our best league finish in over 20 years. 

    He signed some truly world class players, some of the best our club has seen in recent times and made Champions League 5 times out of 6. He took Liverpool back to being a real contender in both European and domestic football. So we sacked him! If Kenny achieved the same we'd consider him a true messiah ! 

    Those fans who supported the previous owners, effectively allowing them to sack Rafa, should hang their heads in shame and stay away from commenting on anything Liverpool. Your opinions are worthless.

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  82. dalgish has worked wonders, he has made a few mistakes on the transfer front not like fergusson, who's reserve centre forward cost almost as much as carroll and is about 8 years older.

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  83. Question: HOW LONG SHOULD KENNY DALGLISH BE GIVEN ?

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  84. Not much spotlight on the overpriced Bulgarian. Why? Because the mancs have been successful and can afford to carry such as a expensive player as a squad player as the likes of Hernandez, Welbeck and Rooney are done/doing well. Its not as if he doesn't have a good record, if you look at the number of goals he has scored in the game he has started, almost one in two. Lucky bastards, the mancs. 

    Whereas Carroll is supposed to be our first XI striker and there is very alternative to him in the squad, so of course there is more spotlight on Carroll who has been utter shite and hardly showed anything to command such a fee prior to moving to Pool. I felt ashamed with all the comedy that was aimed at us when we signed him, as it was like the whole world, but the club, knew we got ripped off.

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  85. Typical - 120mm spent and no one blames Kenny but blame the Spaniard who made a fallen giant feel like a giant again for a short while.

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  86. You fail to answer how us not finishing in the top four this year or last year is Rafa's fault

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  87. I did clearly say that KK hasn't done a great job.

    So I do clearly imply blame on KK as well as Rafa.

    I guess your warped interpretation of what I said, clearly illustrates how blind and precious you get when it comes to best mate Rafa.

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  88. Agreed there, but Paranoia is blaming the current team on Rafa correct? How is that logical?

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  89. Like I said in another post, Rafa hardly left Pool in a great state for Hodgson and Rafa. 

    Rafa's reign was recent, so the knock-on effect of that reign can still have an effect on the club now as he only left in 2010. 

    You get very precious and blind when it comes to Rafa, it seems.

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  90. Don't bother lad. The likes of Madness can't take any valid and good criticism of Messiah Rafa at all. Wasting your time pal

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  91. So we have spent 120 million overhauling this squad - how much more money should be spent before we cannot attach anymore failings of Kenny's team to Rafa?

    It is so funny that you are blaming the current performance of the team on Rafa - Ironic that we have one of the best defences in the league - Reina, Skyrtel, Agger, Johnson, Lucas are all Rafa signings and yes the ones that are performing their jobs (check the stats)- yet where we struggle - in attack that has all been Kenny's signings.

    So again I ask how is this Rafa's fault?  

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  92. Don't bother with the likes of Madness, pal, as they can't take it when anyone says any valid/good criticism of Messiah Rafa. Move on, you've made your point and so leave Madness to illustrate his Rafa-love.

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  93. Can't you read pal? Paranoia fella says 'KK hasn't done a great job'

    Wow, you and your Rafa-love is blinding your ability to read

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  94. I acknowledge Rafa had his faults, but to argue it would be his fault if we dont make 4th is a bit pathetic? This is the point that is being made which is just silly

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  95. Hi there, Paranoia. What is the legacy that Rafa had left us which caused us the league position we are in now?

    Is it Reina? Lucas? Is it Agger? Or is it Skrtel? Maybe Johnson? Maxi? Kuyt?

    Or you are actually pointing your fingers at 20 millions-Downing? 35 millions Carroll? 16 millions Henderson? Adam?

    Whose signings are underperforming at the squad currently? I think the answer should be crystal clear here.

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  96. I would defend any manager who is being wrongly accused of something - this is not a pro rafa argument I am making - It is working out how he is still accountable.

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  97. Ooh 'stats' are the be all and end all eh

    When stats comically imply that Johnson is a good defender, thats when you know that the old quote of 'lies, damned lies and statistics' is so true. 

    Lucas was hardly any good under Rafa. Credit to Hodgson and KK for giving Lucas the platform to play well.

    Skrtel was a liability under Rafa. Again well done KK

    Hodgson had a half-arsed Torres to deal with. Thanks Rafa for leaving our best striker in years in great shape and form, by the time you left(!)

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  98. Johnson? Haha. A £18m defender that can't actually defend that well

    Maxi? He was hardly doing great under Rafa. Became better under Hodgson and KK.

    The same goes for Skrtel and Lucas.

    Kuyt? His hardworking donkey act did well in Rafa's defensive small club tactics but doesn't cut the mustard anymore. We require our wide players to be more than donkeys now as seen with the criticism of Downing, so hence Kuyt is not good enough. Thanks, Rafa.

    Who next? Aquilani? Rieira? 

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  99. I'll tell you what - lets continue the debate in 4 years time - then we can compare Rafa with KD

    I do expect we will have played two CL finals by then, if of course Kenny ever reaches it.

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  100. -Madness
    I shan't bother no more with a man that is full of Rafa-love. Each to their own but its blinding you here. Cheerio

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  101. So flawed that future angle of debate by Madness but I'll come to that in 4 years time to illustrate that, regardless of how well or bad KK does

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  102. JK if thats a fact about Dalglish being his own man with regards to players in and out why is Comolli employed by the club. You say it has been made very clear that the manager etc. but who has made it clear I have never seen anybody credible say that. Also I have listened to Rafa recently speak about transfers and players during his time at the club, I have also read Epic Swindle which is very well informed, Rafa did not have the final say on ins and outs.

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  103. RAFA HAS HAD SIX YEARS TO WIN A TITLE.
    I've nothing against Rafa: I did support him excatly as well as Kenny.
    There's no timescale in football. The answer is "enough time"" to build a winning side. Football is not so easy like YOu and others think and there's no timescale. If You love Liverpool, You'll have patience but If You want istant success, the door is still open at Etihad.

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  104. No more. Rafa's team is decent but certainly not good enough to challenge top four at some point. Tottenham, Chelsea, Man City always look to improve their team but Liverpool's progress is very slow and maybe going backward sometimes.

    Kuyt and Maxi are the last two players on my list, so I'm not going argue that.

    As for Johnson, I don't think you're giving credit to him. Thanks to him, we're able to beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge this season. However, I DO agree wholeheartedly that 18 millions price tag is a bit too much for him and he actually can't defend well.

    But 18 millions Johnson and 20 millions Downing? Johnson looks more dangerous than Downing at wings to me and surely he can defend better than Downing.  Rafa had made mistakes at Liverpool and some of the signings didn't work out. I just wanna point out by comparison, Kenny's legacy should take more responsibility than Rafa's legacy of the league position we're in now.

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  105. The failings he had were due to the lack of support financially.  Yes he spent a lot over his tenure but most of that was from player sales as he was forced to sell in order to bring in new players.  Considering this I think he did pretty well - Alonso, Agger, Reina etc.  Rafa was a tactical genius but allowed his personality to get in the way with his outspoken attitude against the club at times.  I would have loved to see what he could have done with the current financial backing. 

    For me the perfect manager would be a cross between Kenny and Rafa.  Kenny brings the passion, belief and Liverpool Way while Rafa brings the tactics and complete understanding of the team you are up against.

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  106. How do you know prove it

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  107. Really? Houllier managed the top 4 2 seasons out of 6. Souness had more seasons not in the top 4 than Evans' 2 in it. Before Souness, our standard was 1 or 2.

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  108. FSG gave him 3 seasons. I think that is about right, or maybe 4.

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  109. it wasn't actually rafa's wage bill, it was more like Purslow and Hodgson, especially the first one gave huge contracts to jovanovic 60k cole 90k hodgson  and Poulson 50k, meireles only 40k but absolutely worth it

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  110. I do think the only progress in defence is enrique, the rest of the players were there, the only thing was having guts to drop carra, but it happened naturally so that's positive

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  111. suso might not be maradona but riqueleme in the making

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  112. I don't think anyone wanted Hodgson, except Purslow

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  113. what???? 100 mil could get you a good squad 20 mil a good winger, 16 a brilliant youngster, 35 an amazing striker, 9 mil decent midfielder, of course if you look outside britain, In britain those sums will give you a sense of worthlessness combined with the tactics: depression especially after seeing what Kenny bought and done so far, 

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  114. eh?? Your memeory is failing you mate!

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  115. It took Wenger and Mourinho one year - it doesn't take time to build a good side

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  116. "This has never been the FSG way" - that is a conclusive statement of fact, made by you, not by me. I've done no research on FSG and do not pretend to have done, like so many of you guys that like to bleat on about "Moneyball" et al.

    I could provide quotes confirming that Dalglish has final say on transfers though. Would you be able to find anything to back up your assertions?

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  117. Hodgson had 6 months and far less money.

    If you don't care about success and just want to focus on winning against a couple of notable teams, Everton's fanbase are still accepting applications

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  118. Spearing and Kelly have shown Rafas patience and guidance has stood them in good stead.

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  119. Rafa was a tactical Genius? Explain!

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  120. You either have an agenda or a smaller IQ than an amoeba.

    So which is it?

    Have you heard of Tom Hicks and George Gillette? They were the owners of LFC between 2007-2010. Which funnily enough that coincides with our slide out of the top 4.

    If you recall, most "supporters" realised this soon enough and launched protests aimed at the chief protagonists attributed for our demise; Hicks & Gillette. 

    Unfortunately for Rafa; who did his level best and in fact sacrificed himself in the interests of the club by outing Hicks & Gillette for who they were, his tenure coincided with the owners from hell and he got the pointy end of the smear campaign

    Now FFS get a grip on reality and stop this vendetta against an innocent man.

    Pah... "some people really cant see a priest on a mountain of sugar"!

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  121. Talk about Rafa All you want.  !00m should have demonstrated improvement on last season.  There isn't one fan on here who would have bought the players Kenny did.  If I sat opposite Kenny and was asked to write up a list of players to exchange with Kenny I think he'd vomit.  The man who once bought Barnes, Rushie, Beardsley and Houghton has had a footballing philosophy transplant.

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  122. Wenger 2 years with a back 4 that had won the league and Chelsea over £200 million.

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  123. and that's what you'd call "prospering"??

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  124. Definitely agree everything you had said and I love Rafa's sayings every time.

    I know this is a quite an old news long time ago. But is there any article or detailed statistics that is about Rafa's net spending in Liverpool?

    "With £10m net spending, I left that squad with £300m value, 13 internationals." Claimed by Rafa to hit back Roy.

    This is what I read in BBC sport news.

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  125. Tornike Khomeriki7:30 am, January 18, 2012

    Perfect explanation of the process with blind faith fans wearing 'they need a bit more time' excuses on their foreheads until the season's over and then wonder why their dreams didn't come true.

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  126. The argument was about time, not any other extenuating circumstances. Both Wenger and Mourinho won the title in their first full seasons in charge. As did Ancellotti.

    Ferguson is the exception, not the rule

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  127. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/kenny-dalglish-has-final-say-on-transfers-says-damien-comolli-2181002.html
    THERE YOU GO KENNY'S FINAL SAY ON PLAYER PURCHASES 

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  128. Wow ..Never realised we had such a divided knee jerk bunch following us on this board.So some think that Rafa could do no wrong really? Some think that in two transfer windows 35.net spent we should be at least top four.

    Other posters have pointed out the other teams have not stood still so what we've spent is relative.The players such as Skirtle Johnson Agger and Lucas to a certain degree look better under Kenny.F.M. aside we were working in a limited market. No C.L. etc and just having three top stars decide they wished to leave in eighteen months probably influenced the buy British policy IE team sprit and general mood at L.F.C..
    Im not saying Kennys perfect he,s not but every other manager has being given lee-way why not our own Legend?

    Rafa deserve,s credit for his achievement,s but let,s not forget that we were second only to chealsea in net spend season to season under him.If we gave Kenny the same  lee-way with M.C.F.C are we really saying he would,nt at least ger 2nd place? 

    Lets win the C,C. and see if the players respond after all Its how old slur Al;ex started getting momentum by actualy winning cup,s.Not Whining about top four and hoping to trash the Mancs in the F,A cup!

    Ynwa 

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