Wigan Chairman Dave Whelan has launched a vehement attack against Ian Ayre and Liverpool for proposing that top clubs should get a bigger piece of the overseas TV revenue pie; and to be honest, I can definitely see his point.
Whelan's angry outburst came on the same day that Chelsea publicly reaffirmed its commitment to the current Premier League revenue model, thus distancing itself from Liverpool's proposal.
Whelan, who described Liverpool's proposal as 'diabolical', fumed:
"I just can't believe what he [Ian Ayre] has been saying. They [Liverpool] are thinking 'how can we get more money?' You won't get more money by killing the heart and soul of the Premier League and killing the heart and soul of football in England.
"We invented the game and we have still got the finest league in the whole world and some of the finest supporters in the whole world and they want to rip the whole thing up."
"The worst thing for English football is for teams like Liverpool, the top four let's say, who want to get rid of virtually half the Premier League. We will finish up like the Spanish league with just two teams in it, no competition, no anything, no heart and soul in the league.
"What we have is the finest league in the whole world and what Liverpool are calling for would absolutely wreck it. The likes of Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Sunderland and Newcastle couldn't compete."
I have some sympathy for the smaller clubs here. One thing that people seem to be forgetting is that Liverpool were once a (comparatively) small club, struggling to make it out of the second division; trying hard on limited resources to mix it with the big boys.
Imagine if the successful teams of the day had (selfishly) struck a similar deal solely for the purpose of lining their pockets. Liverpool would probably never have made it out of the second division, and all the success under Shankly, Paisley et al may never have happened.
If this kind of thing had happened in the late 70s then we probably never would have experienced the magic of Nottingham Forest going from the second division to double European Cup winners in the space of 4 years.
Yes, I know football has changed drastically since then but the principal remains the same. With a level playing field there's always hope; there's always the possibility that the smaller teams can make a breakthrough, and that brings magic and competitiveness to the game.
And isn't that what football is supposed to be all about?
Jaimie Kanwar
Whelan's angry outburst came on the same day that Chelsea publicly reaffirmed its commitment to the current Premier League revenue model, thus distancing itself from Liverpool's proposal.
Whelan, who described Liverpool's proposal as 'diabolical', fumed:
"I just can't believe what he [Ian Ayre] has been saying. They [Liverpool] are thinking 'how can we get more money?' You won't get more money by killing the heart and soul of the Premier League and killing the heart and soul of football in England.
"We invented the game and we have still got the finest league in the whole world and some of the finest supporters in the whole world and they want to rip the whole thing up."
"The worst thing for English football is for teams like Liverpool, the top four let's say, who want to get rid of virtually half the Premier League. We will finish up like the Spanish league with just two teams in it, no competition, no anything, no heart and soul in the league.
"What we have is the finest league in the whole world and what Liverpool are calling for would absolutely wreck it. The likes of Wigan, Bolton, Blackburn, Wolves, Sunderland and Newcastle couldn't compete."
I have some sympathy for the smaller clubs here. One thing that people seem to be forgetting is that Liverpool were once a (comparatively) small club, struggling to make it out of the second division; trying hard on limited resources to mix it with the big boys.
Imagine if the successful teams of the day had (selfishly) struck a similar deal solely for the purpose of lining their pockets. Liverpool would probably never have made it out of the second division, and all the success under Shankly, Paisley et al may never have happened.
If this kind of thing had happened in the late 70s then we probably never would have experienced the magic of Nottingham Forest going from the second division to double European Cup winners in the space of 4 years.
Yes, I know football has changed drastically since then but the principal remains the same. With a level playing field there's always hope; there's always the possibility that the smaller teams can make a breakthrough, and that brings magic and competitiveness to the game.
And isn't that what football is supposed to be all about?
Jaimie Kanwar
Lol. So chelsea and man city can buy any player they want from their owners money while the product liverpool largely sell, we have to share that wealth equally with clubs who have a fraction of our fanbase and support. The media are abunch of hyprocrites and there holier then thou attitude is disgusting. Where are all the writers condemning chelsea and man city for spendings 100s of millions of pounds. We have the ability to generate our own money unlike them and everyone is jumping on our backs. Bunch of hypocrites all of you. Liverpool have been poorly run for the last 2 decades and the new owners need to look at new ways of getting money fast. Being successful and generating revenue is a vicious circle and there just doing there best to get us their. Caught between a rock and a hard place in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI thought Ian Ayre said he is not happy with the overseas model. He said he was perfectly happy with the way the Premier league money was shared out but wanted a greater cut of the overseas money.
ReplyDeleteJamie you are talking bollocks when Liverpool where in the 2nd division they were not as you discribed them they were a massive club getting massive crowds there were no TV deals and football was a working mans pastime players where getting a working mans wage What Liverpool have done is say why should all teams get the same slice of the pie when overseas TV rights buyers only want the Liverpool and United games and to a lesser extent Chelsea and Arsenal they may show other games in the season with other clubs but the viewing figures are tiny compared to Liverpool and United
ReplyDeleteremember this is not the TV money we are talking about from sky which is split equally but an additional sum of money coming in from other countries that want to show the EPL it cant be right that all sides get the same money this is now business I'am sure Mr Whelan would be the first to complain if i opened 1 sports shop in liverpool and demanded that all the profits from sports shops in Liverpool be put into a central pool and divided up in equal parts even though i have but 1 small shop and he has 20 superstores its these top 4 or 5 clubs that bring in the money without them there is no overseas money at all let aloan a smaller slice of an extra pie
50/ 50 on this one I must say...We deserve much more of the overseas money...Our fanbase around the World is responsible for at least 40% of that revenue and we are getting peanuts in return. Bolton, Wigan and consorts are living off our popularity...this is not fair !
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand....this would kill the premiership. We don't want a 2 club league like La Liga...which, to be honest is a pretty pathetic league
So...a compromise: a formula that would take into account everyone's contribution and would respect the needs of smaller clubs
Smack on mate! Smack on!
ReplyDeletefull stops please....
ReplyDeleteAbsolute rubbish. Why does Wigan suddenly deserve revenue generated from loyal overseas supporters of Liverpool FC? If you want to share the wealth, let's all dip into United's gate receipts and ask Sheikh Mansour and Abramovich for a generous handout.
ReplyDeleteClubs should get the revenue that they deserve. That is ultimately based on a cocktail of loyalty (from the fan base), attraction (to the product), and romance (history and notoriety.) Why should Wigan or Bolton get an equal slice when overseas viewers are actually tuning in to watch more interesting teams?
Ayre, Werner, and co. are absolutely spot on on this point, and the media should get off their high horse. I don't remember them complaining when United floated the PLC, which was what it ultimately took to shake of their own obsolescence.
Although they still have plenty to prove, I like what I have seen thus far from FSG and I think they deserve our support at the moment. I used to find myself agreeing with many of your comments, JK, but now it looks like you might just be a contrarian, perhaps because controversy generates income on sites like this. That may be well and good, but don't sell your soul for a few extra ad clicks.
James.
You'll Never Walk Alone.
The issue is how the message was delivered. It should have been done behind closed doors and in confidence, not floated in the media. Naive from our management, not in the proposition itself, but its airing (or Ayring!).
ReplyDeletewe have chelsea who have no fans but a billionaire who pumps money in, they would loose out so are distancing themselves. Man city are the same.
ReplyDeleteSmaller clubs charge extra when liverpool visit as liverpool are always category A* games so the average liverpool fan pays extra and the smaller club has a chance to milk their fans on the back of liverpool visiting. yet when their small club comes to anifield we make a loss as we will down grade the game to give our fans a bit of restbite from high ticket prices.
You can bet that if we had a chance of winning this battle Man Utd and the glazers would be all over it, even alex feguson proposed the idea not long ago.
I thought we lived in a free market and not a communist republic. imagine this situation in any other buisnes market. e.g. blackberry and apple are the leaders in hand held phones who make huge profits as they have lots of custom (fans), would they share their profits with a lesser company, no.
Peolpe look at bigger clubs and always point the finger. Having a large fan base is brilliant however like any fan base you have to keep them interested, by conducting tours, signing the best players, opening academys in other countries employing more staff, security etc. To ensure this happends costs money. for liverpool to buy a new staduim it will cost 300 million compared to wigans which cost 30 million, ten times as much for only twice the capacity.
In conclusion, smaller clubs are happy to make extra money off tickets and advertising against the bigger clubs, they are happy to take a share of the money from tv rights that ultimately comes from the pockets of liverpool fans, but when we ask for fairness and parrity of treatment they think we are bully boys. This situation is like going into the liverpool shop for a new kit only to be handed a wigan first team top. As a liverpool fan I have no objection to paying money to watch LIVERPOOL, i dont want to pay lots of money to see wigan v wolves. I dont know why they dont do it like boxing and go to pay per view, £6 quid a game with the profits being shared between the two teams playing, liverpool will end up with a lot of money and the smaller clubs will get their rightful share but not at the expense of liverpool supporters.
rant over!!!
and paragraphs would help too, maybe bullet points,
ReplyDeleteMassive crowds are irrelevant in this context - the bottom line is Liverpool were in the second division, and were there for 8 years from 1954 to 1962. Do you really think the club wanted to stay there? Clearly, clubs in the first division were in a better position than LFC, and obviously, the club would've traded the massive crowds for first division football.
ReplyDeleteI know there were no TV deals (!) - I wasn't suggesting there were. I'mm just saying that if were some comparable situation in the 50s where teams in Division 1 deprived Liverpool of much-needed revenue, then it possibly would've made it harder for the club to get out of the second division and then build for the successful future that ensued.
anyone who agrees with this load is an idiot, plain an simple. im not disagreeing that a vast amount of people all over the world tune in to watch the "top" teams in the EPL however i think if people look a bit closer, just as many people tune in to watch the "underdog" teams play. Wigan play fantastic football, im a huge admirer and often wish LFC would try and play a bit more like them than the hit and hope we seem to have taken up with Carroll and Luis up front. Who can argue that the small teams dont deserve and equal amount of the money generated when 1. the small teams, such as Wigan, often have a huge following in smaller foreign countries (Honduras and Oman to name but 2 with a huge Wigan fan base) and 2. when more people globally tuned in to watch the relegation dog fight on the last day of the season last year (which included Wigan, Stoke, Blackpool etc) than had tuned in to watch any title clash in EPL history?? keep it fair and even! if these teams like LFC, CFC, MUFC all have such huge fan bases then why the need to take away some of the more limited revenue for the smaller teams?
ReplyDeleteSame here, is it a good idea to go up setting the premier leagues smaller teams when we are only 7 games into the new season and especially when we have struggled to beat the smaller teams over the last few seasons give them more ammo to raise their game against us!
ReplyDeleteThinking more about the FOOTBALL side and the damage it could do to our chances of winning the league or Champions League football and not the the money side of LIVERPOOL FC.
I totally agree. I'm in South Africa where there is an enormous Liverpool fan base. We get all the Liverpool matches as well as LFCTV. I have absolutely no desire to watch Wigan, Bolton, Wolves et al whatsoever. I just wonder, if everyone gets the same slice of the pie, what possible incentive is there for those less popular teams to improve their popularity abroad?
ReplyDelete"...why the need to take away some of the more limited revenue for the smaller teams"? Simple - Professional football is business and the big guy doesn't sponsor his opposition!
ReplyDeleteNo Professional football is a SPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAre n't their new rules coming in to stop the sugar daddy football teams?
ReplyDeleteCan't blame Whelan for being about Wigan seeing he took them from the fourth division to the premier league.
Because it is the Premier League and not the Liverpool or Manchester United League!
ReplyDeleteThat Dave Whelan eh!!, he should worry about filling his own ground week in week out, I am actually against this but if it pi**ess Whelan off.Good
ReplyDeleteUsing your argument "why stop the subsidizing with the EPL"? Why not share some of that revenue with the Championship league because we all know they are not in the EPL because of "lack of money". They even have a chance to move up to the EPL at the end of the year. Maybe include all of the lower divisions too, since " they all play English football at a professional level" and many struggle because a lack of revenue! Bloody 'ell,
ReplyDeletewhy not go down to "pub" level, so all the lads can have a "pint" on us?
All clubs in the EPL share revenue from TV rights in the UK, but the clubs who by far generate the most overseas money are supposed to "willingly give the vast percentage of that money to their rivals who have done squat all to earn it"? Many like you wish to keep the status quo because Man United's revenue base is the largest in the league and teams like Chelsea and Man City have deep owner pockets. I believe LFC is only asking for a correct percentage of what they earn. Nothing is stopping any other club from building an international fan base to match or surpass Liverpool's.
Who's this 'United' everyone mentions ? Is it Newcastle or West Ham ---er no they dropped to the Championship ? God knows who it is then ??????
ReplyDeleteit is crap what you are putting forward as an argument. The fact Liverpool were in the old 2nd division means nothing, the lack of TV money didnt stop either Wigan or Wimbledon moving up all 4 divisions. did it ?
ReplyDeleteYou say Liverpool are trying to deprive Wigan of much needed revenue, how much revenue should a team with less than 10,000 home fans on avarage get?
Using your argument why isnt Dave Whelan fighting for the minnows, and saying we are happy with the money as is, and every £ over and above what we got last year, should be pooled and split between the other 3 divisions, to give those clubs a bite of the cherry.
Ill tell you why because he wants as big a slice of the pie he can get. This isnt the PL rights, it is additional overseas revenue if there our six Wigan supporters in hong kong, who want to pay a sub to view their maches, i would be suprised.
If it is argued that its fair to split Overseas TV rights, then why not match day revenue ? Why not share out United's and Arsenal's extra match day revenue it would surly be the same argument your putting forward.
For two long these so called smaller teams have been fueling the market spending in effect free money, bringing in on the whole cheaper overseas players paying them over the top wages for their abilities, driving up the cost bases of the championship clubs who are trying to compete with them.
This is why teams sink like a stone when they drop out the prem the hit that they take makes it almost imposible to rebound to the top level and paying those contracts off allmost finish the clubs off,
Remember this is business at a high level not a common wealth.
And in your reply to large crowds being irrelevent, that show that you are totally ill informed on the subject, as it was match day revenues that governed how much money a club could spend.
ReplyDeleteIt wasnt uncommon for players from the old 2nd division to be full internationals the crowd levels didn't drop off if you went down a level unlike today and it was lose change that bought you into a game not best part of your wage like today different times different game
Oh how wrong you are JJ if it was just a sport we would not be having any debate over who gets what money would we
ReplyDeletewrong, wrong, and wrong again, Without the top 4 or 5 teams there is no overseas revenue.
ReplyDeleteYou might like watching a certain team play football and i agree with you i enjoy the wigan approach to the game.
But would i pay for sky sports if there where no Liverpool games the answer is no i wouldnt.
The reason so many fans watched the games last season was they had no choice, that was all that was on offer, if Liverpools game was available live it would have topped any other game being watched end of.
Kanwar's not old enough to remember football pre-Sky, never mind in the second division. Yet again more words wasted on something he knows nothing about.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't the scoucers just go back to nicking wheels, to make yer dogh
ReplyDeleteFootball is a sport that has been turned into a business like all sport to make money for people who don't even like the game or has Henry said in his own words had never heard of Liverpool FC and his partner did n't even want to buy us if Gillett and Hicks had come out with this they would have rounded up!
ReplyDeleteI like this idea. A fair compromise that would recognize the appeal of larger clubs, but provide a reasonable subsidy to the smaller clubs would ultimately work to the benefit of all.
ReplyDeleteGood suggestion, Kim!
James.
You'll Never Walk Alone.
Sorry mate, you're missing the point. This is about OVERSEAS TV rights. Indeed this has nothing to do with local fans and more to do with the era of televised games and the teams with huge international fanbases. You are right and your points are all valid - but not in relation to overseas TV rights where those of us not living in the UK would be happy to pay to watch our teams play. The fact that our teams will play your team, your team is certainly entitled to part of those profits, but the truth of it is outside of England, there are millions of us who would pay to watch Liverpool vs. Arsenal or Chelsea vs. Man U but not Blackburn vs. Wigan or Stoke vs. Wolves. I was watching the El Clasico live, but I'd never make it a point to tune in to Getafe vs. Osasuna if you get the drift.
ReplyDelete