A few weeks ago, I proved that Fernando Torres is a more effective attacking player tha Wayne Rooney. Now it's time to take a look at Pepe Reina and Edwin Van Der Sar. Both are fantastic keepers; both are very important to their respective teams, but who can rightfully be called the best/most effective goalkeeper?
I have looked at both players' stats for the last 4 full seasons, going back to the 2005-6 season, which was when both players arrived at their respective clubs.
I have only included competitive games in this analysis, i.e.
Premiership
Champions League
FA Cup
Carling Cup
Super Cup
World Club Cup
I obtained the statistics from the following sources:
LFC History
Soccernet
Anfield Online
Blog United
Liverpool FC.tv
ManUnited.com
Key
G = Games
W= Wins
D = Draws
L = Losses
GC = Goals conceded
CS = Clean Sheets
MP = Minutes on pitch
GCPG = Goals conceded per game
GCPM = Goals conceded per minute
Season by season
2005-06
ANALYSIS
Reina
* More clean sheets and better clean sheet average overall
* More clean sheets in the first two season than VDS (57 vs. 41)
* Has a slightly better goals conceded per game average
* Had a better goals conceded per minute average in his first two seasons
* Has conceded 10 more goals than VDS in the last 4 years but has played 1700 minutes more
* Liverpool have a higher unbeaten average with Reina (87% of games vs 84%)
Van Der Sar
* Has conceded 10 less goals overall (albeit in 1754 fewer minutes)
* Has a slightly better goals conceded per minute average overall
* Over 4 seasons, has a slightly lower goals conceded per game average
* More clean sheets in the last two full seasons than Reina (56 vs. 50)
* United win more and draw less with VDS, but overall, United are unbeaten less.
It appears that both goalkeepers are very evenly matched in many respects, but Reina has more clean sheets, a better clean sheet average overall, and Liverpool are unbeaten more with Reina in goal.
Trophies aside (this is not a barometer of who is individually the best) Who do you think is superior goalkeeper?
----
Join the site's new Facebook page!
I have looked at both players' stats for the last 4 full seasons, going back to the 2005-6 season, which was when both players arrived at their respective clubs.
I have only included competitive games in this analysis, i.e.
Premiership
Champions League
FA Cup
Carling Cup
Super Cup
World Club Cup
I obtained the statistics from the following sources:
LFC History
Soccernet
Anfield Online
Blog United
Liverpool FC.tv
ManUnited.com
Key
G = Games
W= Wins
D = Draws
L = Losses
GC = Goals conceded
CS = Clean Sheets
MP = Minutes on pitch
GCPG = Goals conceded per game
GCPM = Goals conceded per minute
Season by season
2005-06
| G | W | L | D | GC | CS | MP | GCPG | GCPM | |
| R | 53 | 37 | 8 | 10 | 34 | 31 | 4780 | 0.6 | 1/140 |
| VDS | 51 | 31 | 8 | 12 | 44 | 25 | 4545 | 0.9 | 1/103 |
2006-07
| G | W | L | D | GC | CS | MP | GCPG | GCPM | |
| R | 51 | 30 | 12 | 9 | 35 | 26 | 4590 | 0.7 | 1/131 |
| VDS | 48 | 35 | 9 | 4 | 41 | 16 | 4320 | 0.8 | 1/105 |
2007-08
| G | W | L | D | GC | CS | MP | GCPG | GCPM | |
| R | 53 | 29 | 8 | 16 | 43 | 24 | 4780 | 0.8 | 1/111 |
| VDS | 43 | 30 | 5 | 8 | 25 | 25 | 3750 | 0.6 | 1/150 |
2008-09
| G | W | L | D | GC | CS | MP | GCPG | GCPM | |
| R | 51 | 33 | 4 | 16 | 39 | 26 | 4590 | 0.7 | 1/117 |
| VDS | 49 | 33 | 7 | 9 | 31 | 31 | 4351 | 0.6 | 1/140 |
Grand Totals: 2005 - 2009
| G | W | L | D | GC | CS | MP | GCPG | GCPM | |
| R | 208 | 129 | 32 | 51 | 151 | 107 | 18720 | 0.72 | 1/123 |
| VDS | 191 | 129 | 29 | 33 | 141 | 97 | 16966 | 0.74 | 1/120 |
Ratios
| RATIOS | REINA | VAN DER SAR |
| Wins | 60% | 68% |
| Draws | 24% | 17% |
| Losses | 15% | 15% |
| Clean sheets | 51% | 50% |
| Clean sheets average | 1 every 1.9 games | 1 every 2 games |
| Unbeaten | 87% of games | 84% of games |
| Average goals conceded | 37 per season | 35 per season |
| MP disparity | +1754 minutes | - |
| | | |
| | | |
ANALYSIS
Reina
* More clean sheets and better clean sheet average overall
* More clean sheets in the first two season than VDS (57 vs. 41)
* Has a slightly better goals conceded per game average
* Had a better goals conceded per minute average in his first two seasons
* Has conceded 10 more goals than VDS in the last 4 years but has played 1700 minutes more
* Liverpool have a higher unbeaten average with Reina (87% of games vs 84%)
Van Der Sar
* Has conceded 10 less goals overall (albeit in 1754 fewer minutes)
* Has a slightly better goals conceded per minute average overall
* Over 4 seasons, has a slightly lower goals conceded per game average
* More clean sheets in the last two full seasons than Reina (56 vs. 50)
* United win more and draw less with VDS, but overall, United are unbeaten less.
It appears that both goalkeepers are very evenly matched in many respects, but Reina has more clean sheets, a better clean sheet average overall, and Liverpool are unbeaten more with Reina in goal.
Trophies aside (this is not a barometer of who is individually the best) Who do you think is superior goalkeeper?
----
Join the site's new Facebook page!
(to the tune of the macarena)
ReplyDelete1 pepe, 2 pepe, 3 pepe reina,
he comes from spain and he eats piaya
1 pepe, 2 pepe, 3 pepe reina,
ayyyeeeee pepe reina!
naturally pepe is better. and he's still quite young for a goal keper. will be great for years to come!
Pepe, everytime.
ReplyDeleteAccording to statistics Livrpool are the English team in Europe,
ReplyDeleteO wait....
pepe reina could walk into any club side in world football, there are only two goalkeepers as good or slightly better, buffon, and castillies at real madrid. reina is in the best 3 keepers and has been for 4 years.
ReplyDeletevan der saar, i dont think so,,,, and before anyone asks if im a liverpool fan , no im a barca fan and i would reina at nou camp any day
"are the english team in Europe"
ReplyDeleteWait, what?
You should try again.
I think it'd be good to see a comparisson between when they were the same age. I think you'd then get a feel for how good Reina could potentially become, or if he's not going to get much better. But I'd say Reina's overall game is better than VDS, largely due to his distribution.
ReplyDeleteBy the way I just read your article about the Man. City game. I realised something which seems to be becoming more a problem for us. I don't know if it's coincidence or whether it's something happening in training, or to do with the back-room staff, but we are getting a lot of players picking up a lot of injuries the last year or so.
ReplyDeleteI was led to believe we have the best medical staff in the game, so surely there is something they can do to be a bit more pro-active, especially where muscular injuries are concerned. With the exception of Torres who always seems to get injured when he goes away with Spain (suggesting they're doing something wrong) is it just bad luck or is it something that could be avoided? Just a question.
Quick question, how much does our start to this season mess up Pepe's stats? ;)
ReplyDeleteI'd go for Reina over VDS everytime, but then I am biased. He has age on his side and never seems to get injured (touch wood!)
YNWA
Edwin van der Sar wins everytime no argument!!!
ReplyDeleteSar phonetically means crap in Hungarian! Renia by far is the best keeper in the league the last few seasons. Unfortunately our leaky defense this season will not help his stats.
ReplyDeletehow about a comparison for cech over the past 5 yrs ?!? I think Cech is better than Van Der Sar !!
ReplyDeletehow about a comparison for cech over the past 5 yrs ?!? I think Cech is better than Van Der Sar !!
ReplyDeletethe only stats that count are
ReplyDelete3 PL Titles
1 CL Title
1 Club WC
1 League Cup
2 Community Shields
And you all know which GK will be remembered as the better one worldwide (outside of your small village)
Liverpool is SPANISH not english
ReplyDeletehow come guest ! ferguson dropped him for the first ten games or so.by the way is your first name jo.
ReplyDeletemaybe because he was injured...
ReplyDeletemy first name is Dirk my second name is Kuyt
ReplyDeleteDo a comparison Gerrard and Lampard,
ReplyDeleteLampard shits all over Gerrard statisticly, but is he the better player, I dont think so,
all these Articles and stats are pointless and dont mean anything
To be the best you need to win trophies. Van der Sar is better. Statistics mean nothing, just numbers.
ReplyDeleteDoes it really matter? How many titles has VDS won, and how many has Reina?
ReplyDeletewhos name is not on this list
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_European_Goalkeeper
thats what I thought, terrible article
Why trophies aside Jamie?? Cause you are not able to win any??
ReplyDeleteVan der Sar is the reigning Euorpean Goalkeeper of the Year, so don't even mention Reina in the same sentence, please!
Trophies are not an indicator of the individual qualities of a player; they are a collective reward. As I said in the post, Van Der Sar is a fantastic keeper - this is not an attack on him. I just find it interesting to compare them on objective criteria, which is a more accurate way to gauge quality. I did not make a judgment about who is best, I just relayed the stats. and they are both quite evenly matched it seems.
ReplyDeleteIt is not accurate to say, however, tha van Der Sar is a better keeper. You cannot just say 'he has more trophies therefore he's better'. Djimi Traore has a Champions League medal - does that make him a better defender than Steve Bruce? I think not.
'I PROVED that <span><span> </span>Fernando Torres is a more effective attacking player tha Wayne Rooney'</span>
ReplyDeletelol, im not saying i disagree but to say you proved is abit far fetched!!!!
This season isnt included, so Reina would be worse off if it was.
ReplyDeleteThis is why stats can say 1 thing but dont nessassarily prove anything.
I think Jussi at bolton and mark schwarzer at fulham are really good keepers but because they play for teams who arnt as good theyre stats will not be as good. If your trying to compare keepers wouldnt it be better showing shots stopped and so on. This is why it makes me laugh when jaimie says i proved torres is better attacking player than rooney, although i agree on this point its only because hes found certain information which shows torres to be more effective.
A better example is xabi alonso, nobody would disagree that he was one if not the best playmaker last season in prem but his assists and goals stats are poor, which jaimie would have looked at but how many times did he set a move up, which then resulted in a goal.
Same for Rooney i think, i think he has more of a contribution to the team as a whole rather than just goals than torres but torres's goals would single handedly make him stand out as a more effective player as jaimie has stated.
castilles???? :s
ReplyDeletecastillies???? *DONT_KNOW*
ReplyDeleteeh, you serious? Van der Saar is much better.
ReplyDeleteAt least with this, you are comparing two players in the same position, unlike the terribly flawed Rooney vs Torres analysis.
ReplyDeleteTeam trophies aren't a measure of individual greatness, of course, but Edwin Van der Sar saved the penalty that won United the European Cup. Last season, when our goals tally was unusually low, it was Van der Sar's clean sheets that won us the league. What has Pepe Reina won Liverpool?
Golden gloves three years in a row. Van Der Sar may have had a good run of clean-sheets last season, but overall, Reina has more clean-sheets, a better clean-sheet per game average.
ReplyDeleteVDS has the trophies, and that's great for him, but I'm comparing them in a vacuum on a purely like-for-like basis. And to do so, we need to look at objective criteria.
Reina has more clean sheets but Van der Sar has a superior goals conceded per minute record.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the fact that Liverpool are a far more defensive-minded team than United, it's quite astonishing that Van der Sar still has a better record between the sticks in terms of goals conceded.
And again, for emphasis, Van der Sar's hands won us a European Cup! :D
VDS may have a superior goals per minute record but it's not a massive difference: VDS - 1 every 120 minutes; Reina - 1 every 123 minutes!
ReplyDeletePlus, if you look at th season by season comparison, Reina had a superior GCPM ration between 2005 and 2007. Admittedly, VDS overtook him from 2007-2009, but he has played 1750 minutes less than Reina over the same period.
Two great keepers though. I think both would do a great job in either team.
But do you not find VDS' superior record even more impressive given that United play attacking football whilst Liverpool deploy more defensive tactics?
ReplyDeleteI'd be amazed if Reina was doing as well as VDS when he's 39 too.
forgetting cesar
ReplyDeleteia with the first part. it's not really valid to compare the two with this data when you consider how they're in completely different parts of their careers.
ReplyDeletestill, it means that vds can cut it on a trophy-winning side. reina currently doesn't.
ReplyDeletecouldnt care what the spelling is, iam a liverpool fan and couldnt give two
ReplyDeleteshits fro his name the only name in goal i care about is our pepe reina..
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVZygxUb5WRmIPmY5JH6LCQcOA7MZVgTq3QkL8-_Y6IjnEK8kK4gnW7K-9QDpmzEqSw
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVZygxUb5WRmIPmY5JH6LCQcOA7MZVgTq3QkL8-_Y6IjnEK8kK4gnW7K-9QDpmzEqSw
based on the fact that reina was a snip at 6 mill pounds, id say reina is
ReplyDeleteone of the best goalkeeps ever at that price, but to be fair he is in the
top 3 keepers anywhere on this planet,
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVY_3amXGB2PKsXS9OWRJxz1Yf5a12zeIFTg_m1NNomyh1G2DOsrNcfGIpjBkMiEnFE
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVY_3amXGB2PKsXS9OWRJxz1Yf5a12zeIFTg_m1NNomyh1G2DOsrNcfGIpjBkMiEnFE
for me reina is only second behined the real madrid keeper but there is not
ReplyDeletealot in it,
people do not give rafa creidt at all for paying only 6 million pounds for
a goalkeeper,, great deal that, hed been worth 30 million now,, big time,
if buffon at his age went to juventus for 32 million what a joke that was,
reina is worth more to be honest,
reina should be made a top earner along with gerrard torres and mascherano
to be fair, tehn he my tip for captain of liverpool, van der saar doesnt
come close to reina,
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVau1BfAkIH7QiIY3bV1FeRPOFx9roM5prwJA3S-iJxaTAX4i7aL-Y4qI1t8ZwwHsKY
http://js-kit.com/settings/pctl.cgi?u=UmFuZG9tSVau1BfAkIH7QiIY3bV1FeRPOFx9roM5prwJA3S-iJxaTAX4i7aL-Y4qI1t8ZwwHsKY
Looking at those stats, they are decently even when it comes to defense. Most could argue that United's defense is stronger than Liverpool's, making his job much easier than Reina. However, you can't forget Reina's long punts that have claimed him a few assists, including against Real Madrid and United. I'm expecting him to score any day now. ;)
ReplyDeleteAre you guys serious. ok i think Torres is world class and he would make the United first team every week if fit, but theres no way Reina would get off the bench unless VDS was injured
ReplyDeletelook here this is a list of the best goalies 1 iker casillas 2 pepe reina 3 victor valdes 4 gigiluigi buffon 5 julio cesar 6 petr cech 7 shay given 8 edwin van der sar
ReplyDelete9 joe hart 10 jerzy dudek
Reina is the best in the world at the minute, really let down by the defenders around him.
ReplyDeleteJimmy
Trampolines
Reina is the best - Edwin is old enough to be his Grandad! lol
ReplyDeleteP
TP Trampolines