Unarmed, yet Shot SIX times. Murdered by the Police. Disgrace #Justice4MichaelBrown

7/21/2013 07:30:00 pm

Fowler insists: 'Struggling' £31m LFC duo should not get 'another chance'.

Last season, the Martin Skrtel/Daniel Agger defensive partnership turned out to be one of the team's weakest links, but after Reds boss Brendan Rodgers dumped Skrtel for Jamie Carragher, the team's defensive fortunes markedly improved. Should Rodgers give the duo another chance to forge a successful partnership? Liverpool legend Robbie Fowler doesn't think so, and he believes it's time for a permanent change.

Discussing Liverpool's defensive set-up last week, Fowler rejected the suggestion that Skrtel and Agger should be given another chance together. He told the 5-Times Podcast:

"Last year, they [Agger and Skrtel] struggled as a pair. Why give them another chance when they’ve had years playing together?

"They’re not bad players, they just struggle together. Neither one of them is a dominant force, but Carra came into the team and told people where to go. Agger and Skrtel won’t do that".


Fowler is not the only ex-Red who feels this way. In a recent column for Sky Sports, Jamie Redknapp outlined how he'd lost faith in both players, and called for changes. He explained:

"There is still a massive void defensively. Agger showed his defensive frailties [last season]. They [Liverpool} need to find a centre-back of real quality this summer because Martin Skrtel and Agger don't look like a strong partnership to me, and I don't think they Liverpool can rely on them next season"

In 2011, ex-Red Stan Collymore upset Liverpool fans when he claimed that Agger and Skrtel were not as good as the hype suggested. He told TalkSport:

"When you look at Vincent Kompany at Manchester City, [Rio] Ferdinand and people like Phil Jones who has come into Manchester United, I don’t think Dan Agger or Martin Skrtel compare. They are a level below".

On recent evidence, it seems that Collymore got it right.

Agger continues to be linked with a £16m move to Barcelona and Zenit St, Petersburg are reportedly willing to lay down £15m for Skrtel. It's doubtful that Liverpool will scorch the earth and sell both players this summer, though of the two, Skrtel is probably the most likely to leave.

I'm a big fan of Agger, especially his leadership qualities, but his main job is to defend, and if he's not doing that well enough, then it's a problem. If he stays - and improves - I definitely see the Dane as a future LFC captain, and in an interview last year, Agger confirmed that he has his eye on the captain's armband. He told Bold.dk:

"It's not something I go and think about every day, but it doesn't get much bigger than being the captain of Liverpool"

Agger is obviously being as diplomatic as possible here but I think it's reasonable to assume that, privately, he would jump at the chance to captain Liverpool.

As for the Skrtel/Agger partnership - it's a busted flush (IMO), and Liverpool should just pull the chain and be done with it.






NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)


 photo 300x250_zpsa820cc57.gif

SITE UPDATE: COMMENT POLICY
11 August 2014


Reasoned, adult discussion is the name of the game on this site, so please bear in mind the following when posting comments:

* ALL views are welcome, and if someone's football-related opinion doesn't fit your pre-conceived notion of what constitutes an LFC 'fan', then tough luck.

* Good-natured banter is fine, but posts containing personal insults, belittlement, sniping, deliberate antagonism etc (directed at fellow posters, players, managers, rival fans etc) will be deleted.


* Attack the argument, not the person. Repeat offenders will be banned.

* Posts moaning about 'negativity' will also be deleted. The aim of this site is 'critical realism about LFC', so please expect a critical/analytical approach, and be prepared to have your opinion challenged.

* Txt spk is outlawed. Please write in proper sentences, and avoid using abbreviations like LOL, PMSL etc.

* The site owner welcomes and encourages disagreement, but only if opposing views are presented in line with the guidelines above.


Ultimately, it's simple: be as vehement and passionate as you like, but please remain civil at all times. Thank you.


81 Comments :

tesoman said...

No. Robbie hit the nail on the head. Both good players but they are not vocal enough in organizing the entire defense. Toure can do that but I'm not convinced he's at the same level he once was to be starting. We need a signing who is vocal in organizing the defense that will partner Agger from the start of the season

billy said...

Jamie everyone talks about how we were much better defensively when Skrtel was dropped and Carragher came in. Do you have any stats on how big of a factor Lucas was in this?


I know he wasn't playing when Skrtel was starting.
The last time I remember him not playing after his injury was against Southampton and we got bossed and let in a fair few goals.


Opinions?

VermHat said...

I'm disappointed by the lack of movement on the centre back front.
By extension, I'm disappointed that Skrtel hasn't been sold yet. The rumours regarding his departure seem to have died down.
I think that Agger, whilst I am usually a big fan, was awful at times last season and needs to seriously up his game. If we could get a £20mil kind of offer for him, I'd take it.
I'm very disappointed that it seemed at one point we'd be getting Papadopolous, Ilori and Mkhitaryan, which seemed like a trio of very promising signings, but now it seems like we'll get none of them.

gilstrap said...

im hoping the old adage form is temporary class is permanent rings true for agger and skirtel this year ......skirts was outstanding then made a blunder against city and went down the pan and surely agger cant lose his man at set pieces like he did last year....clubs where looking to pay 2om each for them so hers hoping they get that kind of form back

Chuckyred said...

I thought 2011/12 skrtel was immense and id never really rated him. Then last season happened. Im a fan off agger, but i really feel as though his marking particularly on set pieces is pretty poor and has led to a good few goals conceded. Im keen to see how big an affect Toure has. I still think Coates deserves a chance, he should be loaned out to another prem team. Hes rated highly by Uruguays national team.

lowey said...

anyone who said yes clearly watches another game or not enough games.
fowler has hit the nail on the head, ive been saying it for what feels like years.....................to long.
agger the better defender obviously but is hardly a great ball winner in the air or interceptions etc

gilstrap said...

the problem coates have is the system rogers plays mean you defend high up the pitch ...if your cb lack pace they will be exposed....even indonesia exploited this a few times

Alexander Clayton said...

maby they won't be able to work as a succecfull partnership but the saying throwing the baby out with the bath water comes to mind

gilstrap said...

if rogers is keeping skirtel and coates though and has faith in kelly and wisdom we potentially have 6 cb .....wether this is quantity over quality remains to be seen

liverpool4life565 said...

I wouldn't, I think we should bring in papadopoulous, strong, won't be pushed around and good with his feet.... :)

Jas said...

If it wasnt for the fact that this is a massive season for us I'd get rid of both.however if one is to stay I'd say agger even though I think the guy is overrated,ok he may look good on the ball but that's no good when he's getting bullied off the ball all too regularly.get the Greek guy in,by all accounts he looks the business.i think our defence needs a character now carra's gone,Kelly,Agger,Toure etc dont exactly inspire me.

billy the cat said...

coates ??? u joking tommy smith is still faster than him now .blackpool beach for him m8 with a kiss me quick hat and a saddle

Ghost Rider said...

The problem with papadopoulous is his injury and the amount of money they want for him.

Yes he has shown great potential but he had a very bad knee injury and according to a lot of reports he suffered another break down on the same knee.

So spending 15mil+ on a play who hasn't kicked a ball in anger in 2013 is a dangerous move


Reminds me of a another player who a previous manager brought and was then ripped apart because of that purchase...

gilstrap said...

coates is one of thoses players who you want to do well but just doesnt

Phil said...

Good point. CB partnerships always look better when they have a mascherano / Lucas player in front of them. Agger and skirtle went from being one of the best defensive partnerships in the Premier League, to being written off by everyone when Lucas got injured. Still 15m for skirtle sounds like good money. Wish we'd cashed in on the big bids for reina instead of loaning him out 2 years later...

billy the cat said...

maybe now with a keeper that will command his box both players will improve its no fun having a cat behind u that u have no confidence in jeez it was panic stations every time a free kick or a corner came in with (pepe no saves in goal)

banoog said...

It's disappointing that even well loved ex-players conveniently forget how well Agger and Skrtel performed the season before last. Many times last season, the opposition had direct access to our defense because our midfield was non-existent. A good example of that was when we were humiliated by Aston Villa despite the majority of the stats being in our favour. Even worse, the problem has still not been addressed, unless attack really is the best form of defense.



The players need to look at themselves, but I'm not sure how Kenny and Steve managed to get the best out of such average centre backs, whilst Rodgers and co struggled to get a half-decent performance between them. Surely, the solution is not as simple as replacing the personnel. Furthermore, we need to look at whether the defense has faith in the goalkeeper and who is protecting the defense.

Slipperie_Slope said...

I would definately give agger another chance, as he is the better footballer of the two, but he needs an animal beside him, someone to go through people for shortcuts and be vocal, the pop seems to fit this bill but are we dragging our feet once more on this.
This kind of pairing is what works IMO, ferdinand the footballer/ vidic the enforcer, nastastic and kompany.
Whether we get this kind of pairing is another matter. But it needs to happen sooner rather than later as Kolo is only a stop gap and we need CBs to be training and playing together before the season kicks off.

Niall O'Reilly said...

Papas injury history worries me for the price we'd have to pay

rah said...

apart from his set piece defending agger is excellent .......

Slipperie_Slope said...

Yeah that is a worry. You're right he hasn't played in 2013. I also see he has his own personal doctor at the club. Hopefully thats nothing to read into, but it is a bit worrying when a player needs a personal doctor.
I still really like the look of this guy, and we need to make a move on a CB soon, so go for it i think.

gilstrap said...

thats what worries me ...we already have one cardboard tank we dont need another..as good as he is if hes always injured its a no no ....one think about suarez is he gets kicked pillar to post and is never injured

gilstrap said...

the problem is compounded with rogers signing small players.....i fear are cb this year will finish every game with a headache as our lack of height and power will surely be targeted

TheTruth said...

Bearing in mind how well they played in 2011-12 and how they suffered in 2012-13 you could pinpoint to the fact that Brendan Rodgers has little regard for protecting the back four. His organisation of the team at set pieces is also laughable. The problem lies with BR not his defenders and until he brings in a defensive coach the problem will persist.


BR is more like Kevin Keegan (ie too cavalier) than many care to admit.

Slipperie_Slope said...

You make some good points there, but i do feel after a bad season, an injection of fresh blood can raise others performances. I wouldnt change both though. too risky.

gilstrap said...

agger was woeful last year at set pieces the striker kept getting goal side

Niall O'Reilly said...

Yep,Like having our two starting CBs injury prone is a very bad idea

patrick said...

NO player is coming in ...so lets be careful of who goes out

OriginalChan said...

Skrtel just doesn't seem to be comfortable in this system or at least the system in the first half of the season. Although, soon after Carra was brought in, we switched to a counter attacking style. We did certainly play deeper a lot of the times the second half of the season. Who knows how Skrtel would have fared in the counter attacking set up in the long run. Be interesting to see if Rodgers will push the defensive line back up again next season, despite the form of the team in the second half of the season with the deeper line. I think we will return to a higher line again, especially if he brings in another CB of his choice.

Regardless of what system we played last season, it is a given that the full backs will push wide and forward as such is the general set up of the team under Rodgers, which means the CBs for both defensive and passing reasons have to go narrow-wide, whilst the holding midfielder covers the middle to varying degrees. Skrtel is simply not comfortable at this. Agger one would've thought be fine but he has been sloppy. For some reasons, I have some hopes on Agger playing his way back into decent form, despite in some areas he has been worse than Skrtel but I've given up on Skrtel.

Jimbob said...

I don't remember watching to many games that Coates has played in where he hasn't performed well. IMO he's a quality player but maybe lacks a little pace and isn't rated by Rogers. But I certainly wouldn't say he doesn't do well. Can you give me a few examples of games you've watched where Coates has underperformed because I certainly can't remember any.

banoog said...

I'm with you. Fresh blood is usually a good thing, not in the least for the competition in brings. But the coaching and general defensive organisation also needs to be looked at.

banoog said...

Yep. If you're 6 foot tall, you're not a transfer target. Ro

Mel Hall said...

joke sell skrtel sell lucas he cant tackle cant make good forward passes he is always giving stupid free kicks away he is at least by best a squad player but agger is very good football player he is pacey ok in the air can travel with the ball he is that good barcalona want him we need a lesscot or big brick like dante or a shawcross

billy the cat said...

jimbob are u one of the glazer family? think you been suppin to much moonshine. coates is f"ckin awfull hic hic. morning soon time for some breakie off ellie may.go and take duke for a walk and clear your head

roythered said...

Heard he has a nasty knee injury and has'nt played for months, bit risky,

roythered said...

Skirtel's a beast, best defender we have in the air, treated like shit by Brenda.

arthur1010 said...

I expect Skrtel and Coates to be walking Skrtel is error prone and does not look comfortable in this system and Coates is just not the right type.
Neither fit Rodgers system and i would be disappointed if they didnt get sold.

billy the cat said...

hi ho hi ho .roll on the panto season when most of players will be at the empire instead of anfield . I think Rodgers has got little man syndrome with himself being a staggering 5foot 4ins. what next no over head height in the epl ffs sign a couple of 6ft 4in players

banoog said...

Spot on. Bring new defenders in by all means, but we'll still have the same problems until BR's approach to managing our defense improves.

Angelos said...

Rodgers is a joke and the Americans owners are even bigger laughing stuff... Agger and Skrtel were good enough to play Champions League games and to chase probably the best Man U team of SAF era (2008 - 2009). But this happen when they had a proper manager (Benitez) and a proper midfield cover (Alonso, Mascherano). Statistics say that the best defensive partenership was Agger / Skrtel and not Agger / Carragher. Even Carra admited that it was fair that Skrtel was playing and he was not for the last couple of years. See what happens with Reina. I didn't say anything for competition with Mignolet, Rodgers did and whenever he speaks he is "dangerous"... See how we gave 15.000.000 pounds for the "Welsh Xavi" but sell Jonjo for only 6.000.000 pounds to Swansea (they are laughing with us by now), how Coates, one of the the best CB at his age - before just 2 years - became useless, how we can not take a player when somebody else wants him (Mikhtarian) and how we are one step before our best player departure... Open your eyes, our team is walking to the wrong direction... YNWA

Dodgy Colts said...

letting reina go on loan a year saves million in wages for a player that might sit on the bench , and maybe last year if we put the chances we created in the net our defense wouldnt have been looked at so bad , for to many years we have wasted money on over payed players ,were having to change our ways , for the better of the club , , and how can you blame rogers for coates he never got a real chance under kenny dalglish , and thats maybe when he had his chances he didnt step up to the plate and prove himself to be better than the existing centre backs we have , joe allan started well for liverpool last year , until he struggled with a shoulder injury , shelvey is too inconsistent in my eyes

OriginalChan said...

Skrtel and Agger started games in that season in 08/09 but Carra was still king of the defence and he started more PL games than Skrtel and Agger did PUT TOGETHER in 08/09. Agger and Skrtel didn't prove much as a centre back partnership in that season. So I wouldn't use that season as some sort of testament of the Agger-Skrtel partnership.

Johnny Starrs said...

Oldham is one, and also QPR, (although he scored).
Another but I cant remember the team, where he got robbed out at the LB position, he was treacle trying to get back.
He is not a newcomer, he has had many chances, but IMO he failed to impress. Even his national team cannot give him a game. Enough is enough.

Johnny Starrs said...

Papa has not played since last November, his utube profile looks impressive but, Aqualani anyone.

Johnny Starrs said...

Could Skirts, Kelly or Agger play that role,? worth a look I say.

Johnny Starrs said...

Swansea forums for Shelvey comments.

Johnny Starrs said...

What players did 4/5 years ago, is irrelevant.

DeveshChil said...

Its better to have Agger & Skrtel rather than signing no one or just prospects IMO.

gilstrap said...

listen i want the guy to perform .....it was the cup game last year that did it for me when a milkman left him for dead

gilstrap said...

my problem with agger is that like kelly every-time they go down you think they are injured...thats what puts me off popa...3 injury prone cb no thanks....that's at least whet skirtel has in his favor hes seems a bit more robust.....the way money seems to be at anfield we can ill afford players out of action.

CARR71 said...

simple really spend 10 million on a new defender pay him less wages,then loan out skrtel or agger,it may sound stupid but its basically what we have just done with pepe,we could do it with suarez too

Mr. Point Of View said...

Buy 1 more proven CB and push Agger to be our new DM ! Finish ! Close Case !

Mr. Point Of View said...

absolute agree. There are lot ppl put the ALL THE BLAME on martin alone. I think defensive duty is whole team task and mgr should take responsible as well.

RedMan said...

Perhaps neither is used to standing up and taking on the responsibility of leading the defense because they've had Carra around for all these years? Maybe we'll see an improved partnership between the two now that Carra has gone?

Ghost Rider said...

What?

You can not say that Rodgers is a joke when comparing him to RB and the squad he had in 08/09.

If anything you could slam RB as he never had a better chance to win the prem but blew it by making some wired decisions and having a rant at SAF which made him look weak.

As for selling Jonjo for 6mil.. Good Work as I personally don't think he is worth that.

Coates the best CB for his age !! Where do you get this from lol.

As far your bit about Mikhtarian I honestly have no idea what your trying to say there.

liverpool4life565 said...

I don't think your understanding the reina loan, he on 5.5 million a year contract, no point having that on the bench really we have brad jones for that, also how would it make sense loaning skrtel out? We need four defenders and they would be used in some games.

arthur1010 said...

I would really like to see Sakho bought in i think he has all the attributes needed and being a world cup year will be eager to impress.

Ani Zanz said...

When we talks about Attacking Midfielder,it is meaning Downing,Borini,Henderson and Lucas never funtion very well and succesfully.We need to find out new players to ship out all of them.Lucas is very perfect as holding ball but not too good when assist foward players.He cannot score more than 5 goal per season like others flops players.We need to bring more talented players who can firing many goal and protect the fortress very solid and tough.Before transfers window nearly to be slam,much better atleast LFC can release out Downing and Borini first.I confident same mistake will repeat again if LFC still want to using Passenger players who get high salary.They all don’t having good skill but the pressure is still need to used this players because high payment need to playing every week and the cheapest players who have good quality as Assaidi,Coates can st down on the bench.Why?? They will not effect the wage bill whether playing or not playing.LFC will solve their main problem if they ship out deadwood players.Please bring in Bernard and Soldado to strengthen the foward areas with 1 or 2 new defender or centreback.Mamadou Sakho,Toby Alderweireld,Kryiakos Papadoulos will be great signing for new centreback candidates.

CARR71 said...

i understand it perfectly we paid 10 million for our new keeper ,we let our current keeper go on loan he his worth ten million,forget is wages we should have sold him

liverpool4life565 said...

He wants barca, he will return to barca next year. So in the mean time, he off to Napoli for a year.

CARR71 said...

i do not give a f"ck what he wants suarez wants real but we are not letting him go to they pay up what is the difference none

billy the cat said...

hold on there barca are just about to change their manager .what happens if he doesn't want (no saves) if I was the manager I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole. so this loan deal is f"ckin daft sell him to Napoli not loan him cos the barca deal will go t"tsup

Jay Wright said...

tbh, even if another CB signing isn't brought in, I'd still be pretty content to see Skrtel move on for a decent fee. He still consistently makes the sort of rookie errors that you'd expect and forgive Kelly and Wisdom for making, but can't expect from your supposed commanding, physical centreback.

OriginalChan said...

I agree to an extent in general, depending on CONTEXT. But you somehow missed the point of my reply to Angelos, who was hyping up their contribution in 08/09, hence my reply was disagreeing with that part, which is clear as day. Hence it is relevant, in that particular part. Not complicated.

OriginalChan said...

Give it up, you know what Jason is like! ;)

maljames said...

Skrtel had one good season 2011-12. he was poor before and since

maljames said...

I regularly read comments that Skrtel was immense in season 2010-11 so shouldn't be judged on last season. what these people are forgetting is he wasn't immense before that one good season. He was poor, and last season was more a return to the norm rather than the opposite. He is an accident waiting to happen, and who unfortunately, too often does.

Jaimie K said...

Agree, Mal. Skrtel's one good season was the exception, not the rule.

Gaz said...

And how is this not sniping?

Gaz said...

The season before last, that was the pairing we had, Skrtel the enforcer, Agger the footballer. As someone earlier said, a lot of people forget this and also forget that last season, we started with a new style of football and that takes time to get used to.

Gaz said...

And what people fail to realise is we actually had a pretty good defense last season, we conceded 43 goals, equal to what Man Utd conceded and only 4 teams conceded less, 3 of those 4 being in the top 4, the only other team being Everton who conceded 40 goals. That shows that our defense over the season was actually worthy of the top 4. We only conceded 3 goals more last season, than the 2011-12 season when Skrtel and Agger were seen to be one of the best defensive pairings in the league and although Carragher played majority of the second half of the season, over the whole season, Skrtel is a contributing factor in that.

red dieheart said...

shawcross from stoke city is a good leader in defence

billy the cat said...

just having a pop at his postin name that's all the main comment is that coates is what he is. if u aint got a sense of humour well I cant help that!!

scud78 said...

The moment Skrtel started threatening to leave because he wanted more money was when we should have been rid of him. Over paid, rubbish. I was surprised when Kenny gave in and handed him the contract. I honestly thought he would have let him go. I have never rated him, and never will . Best player in a team that finished 8th that season and made like he was the best CB in the world. Please.

Agger is still a top class defender, but i agree that he needs a 'bigger' presence playing alongside him to get the best out of him. Hopefully we find someone of sufficient quality sooner rather than later. I wouldnt mind Sakho or Papadopoulos , both physically strong, tho Sakho is less injury prone.

scud78 said...

Skrtel is just rubbish

scud78 said...

AGREED . even then we finished 8th

redgeorge said...

I agree , I like Coates, he may be a little lethargic, but he is a good player, just lacks motivation, which is understandable the way he has been treated, first choice for his country, and voted best young defender, don't worry about others not agreeing with you mate, it seems if you have a different opinion to them you're wrong!

Angelos said...

Great dialog, I'm happy about that friends! So:


1) For Agger / Skrtel partnership, Carra answers for me:
http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/carragher-vital-liverpool-keep-agger-skrtel-3459451#.Ue14To17I_Q
(Also I can say that if we can have 15.000.000 pounds for Skrtel, I will be happy. But we must keep Agger).
2) About Reina and Rodgers: My problem is not that Reina is leaving (probably is the best option for LFC and him). It's that our manager say something at the first day and reality comes with a fact that overule what he said, a few days later! Can you deal with that? Personally I cannot...
3) About Allen and Shelvey: Maybe Shelvey is not good enough for LFC and 6.000.000 pounds for him is a good piece of work for us. But 15.000.000 for Allen it's a robbery... We were screaming for the 16.000.000 price tag of Hendo and he is a better player than Allen, isn't he?
4)ForCoates: https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=2345861570427
(Best Young Player of the America's Cup 2011)
5) For Mkhitaryan: For months we were interested about him and Dortmund take him, working about it for 10 days or less...
6) About FSG: They spend a lot of money in their first year. What about now? Selling and then spending (Carroll - Shelvey for Alberto - Aspas - Mignolet) is the healthy way but look around. All our rivals spending and pushing more and more. We cannot make it without spending big... Fact..!
7) About Rafa and Rodgers: I will not even make a comment...

Z4 said...

Collymore can suck it, who the hell is Phil Jones compared to Agger???... DAgger is the best CB in the premier league when fit and in form. And why do the players always get the stick. The season b4, under Kenny and steve clarke, Agger/Skrtel was the best defensive partnership in the league. People don't consider what's going on behind the scenes in terms of coaches and training.

Z4 said...

You cannot buy the sort of loyalty that Agger has shown for LFC. If it was me, i wouldn't take a 40 million bid for DAGGER. "There is no club in the world that I can't say no to as long as Liverpool wants me here." DA
The great Dane is also one of the best CBs in the BPL and a role model for all the younger players.

Ianwillo said...

Collymore is bang on! The pair of them need to moved on, they haven't done it, they've had plenty of time to work together, it hasn't happened so 'off yer pop' lads! LFC could've made a killing on Agger...I don't see what's so good about him.....Skrtel has never been good enough, he shows flashes here and there but not consistent.

Post a Comment