11/01/2012 09:30:00 am

Out of order? Poor man-management as BR unfairly belittles 4 LFC players...

Liverpool crashed out the Capital One Cup last night after a 3-1 home defeat to Swansea City, and after the game, Reds manager Brendan Rodgers could barely hide his 'disappointment' with the overall performance. The Liverpool manager waxed lyrical about the performances of Joe Allen and Jamie Carragher, but he also committed a minor man-management faux-pas with his harsh public criticism of the club's midfielders.

During the post-match press conference, Rodgers slammed his team for being 'slow', and conceded that Swansea were the better side on the night, but once again, he reserved special praise for Joe Allen, and his words came with a sting in the tail for the rest of the midfield. Rodgers observed:

"Joe [Allen] was incredible. You can see he has come out of that Swansea team and into our team with his brightness and his cleverness. He was virtually playing on his own in the midfield in the first half".

That is a stinging - and arguably unfair - criticism of Jonjo Shelvey, Stewart Downing, Oussama Assaidi and Joe Cole. Saying that Allen was 'virtually playing on his own in midfield' suggests that Shelvey et al didn't put any effort in, and/or were so grossly ineffective that Allen had to do it all by himself.

Rodgers even singled out Cole for specific criticism, which goes against his oft-preached preference for focusing on the team. He scathed:

"Joe had an opportunity. The club have invested an astronomical amount of money on a player who is talented. Obviously he has been back fit now for a couple of weeks and the opportunities have been limited for Joe but then you've got to seize the opportunity".

Granted, the midfield - including Cole - wasn't the most effective unit on the night, but that's what happens when you make 9 changes to the team after the last game (!)

Moreover, describing Allen's performance as 'incredible' is exaggeration in the extreme; the midfielder had his worst game so for for LFC, and he gave the ball away many times throughout the match.

Along with Luis Suarez, Allen is clearly a Rodgers favourite, but singling him out *again* for high praise and then basically dissing everyone else in midfield in such a public manner is poor man-management, and creates a 'teacher's pet' scenario at Anfield.

It may seem like a throwaway comment, but Downing, Shelvey et al will probably feel pretty disappointed to hear their hard work belittled, especially if they personally feel that they gave it their all in the first half.

That aside, I'm glad the club is out the Capital One Cup. The squad is incredibly thin as it is, and with this competition out of the way, it means less games, less chance of burnout for the likes of Suarez, and less change of injuries taking out even more players.

The performance wasn't the greatest but so what? It's going to take at least a season - and a few more signings - to get the team consistently playing the way Rodgers wants. There will be hiccups along the way, and this was one of them, though it shoud be remembered that going into this game, LFC:

* Were unbeaten in 5 of the last 6 games.
* Achieved three clean sheets in a row.

No doubt the 'Rodgers isn't good enough' knee-jerkism will start up again but that just shows the perennial fickleness of fans. As I always argue, it's important to take the long view, and the manager deserves better than blinkered short-termist thinking.

The league is the most important thing this season, so let's hope the team gets back to winning ways this weekend.

N.B. Before anyone asks: Yes, I still support Rodgers 100%, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical if I feel its warranted.

Jaimie Kanwar






129 Comments :

J4ymichaels said...

Well said Jamie

Will said...

Well I didnt know Cole was playing until 35 minutes in to the game. Granted I was watching a poor internet stream, but still he was anonymous, and I thought Yesil didnt really get a proper chance as he was so isolated. He isnt the kind of player to come looking for the ball like Suarez, and I think the other players didnt realise this or support him enough.
Acutally I though Allen was probably one of the worst players last night, Im pretty sure it was him who got tackled really easily for the 2nd goal. I like Allen, but he needs to start doing more than just getting a high successful passing rate.
Basically we were out played completely in the first half, and got a little better in the 2nd. But Swansea were the better team overall.

Our make shift defence didnt seem to gel, they all played pretty well individually, but they didnt seem to be communicating very well, and therfore looked a bit all over the place at times.

I think Rodgers has to take the blame for this one somewhat, the team was set up wrong, and no one seemed to compliment each other.

Martinmarx said...

I don't think you saw the game mate. By that performance I think Brendan's being overly generous towards, Downing, Shelvey, Henderson, Cole and Assaidi. He was right to praise Allen. Me too was very disappointed with the players effort and passion last nite. I sincerely hope I don't see any of the abovementioned players, bar Allen of course, in an LFC starting line up anytime soon.

It was embarrassing to see us so outclassed and outplayed at home to Swansea and altho I often am critical of the manger when that happens, this time I can't but help but feel it was down to the players lack of attitude and passion. So I, for one, can deffo se where Brendan's coming from in his direct and implicit criticism of the players. Shelvey just isn't good enough. Downing and Henderson long time ago proved they're a waset of space and Assidi looks like panicking everytim he gets the ball.

Timmy Red said...

Rogers has made his bed. It wasn't the fans that let so many experienced players leave over the summer and not replace them. It wasn't the fans that insist on a 4-3-3 system that leaves us so vunerable to counter attacks.

Yes, I admire what he is trying to do, but you still need to instil some fight into your players rather than just put nice passes together and fail tactically against your old team.

Akhoosain said...

I think Cole needs a kick up the backside. he was atrocious. He needs to step up or move on. He was given a chance and he fluffed it . How many more chances does n he need. Brendan has always supported him publicly. Call a cow a cow . thats what his performances have become.

Jaimie K said...

Shelvey isn't good enough? Are you having a laugh? You seem to be suggesting that one performance should define his entire LFC career; what about the many other good performances he's put in? Do they suddenly not matter?

I saw the game, the midfield wasn't so bad that it deserved public ridicule in this manner. Rodgers could've slammed the team without focusing on individuals. Individual public criticism of players never has any positive effect (at LFC anyway), and it's not the best man-management policy (IMO)

Jaimie K said...

How is publicly criticising `cole going to make him improve? The Press have grabbed hold of it and are already spinning the predictable 'Cole's Anfield career is over' stuff. Will that make Cole feel good and improve his performance? The criticism should've been kept behind closed doors.

I don't rate Cole; I was against his signing, and he should leave, but he still deserves to be barracked in private, not in public.

rubyrm said...

BR has backed his players all along. A little bollocking is always positive. I am pleased that he has come out and showed his annoyance for once. A little more bollocking once in while could do wonders.
I agree Jamie that "out" of this cup is a blessing in disguise. In BR we must trust and let's not start calling for his head.

Will said...

Ahhh my Knee its jerking all over the place! LFC will be relegated because of 1 loss!! Ahhhh. Thats basically what is happening..
I disagree to an extent regarding the critisism, Cole will know he played badly, it would be wrong for Rodgers to try and put a positive spin on it, because I think that would send the wrong message, if my manager told me I was doing badly, I would seriously want to change that.

Felderkirk said...

Oh Christ. I was wondering how long it'd be before that old '100% behind Rodgers and FSG' chestnut changed.

Philipdean said...

each year our priorities and how we finish are getting less and less. under benitez it was a title challenge, under hodgson was 4t spot or bust, under dalglish was 4th spot or bust, BR - 'well if we come 12 and play the youth and have 60% possesion, its thumbs up for me'??

BR was brought here to do one thing - do a better job than the previous manager.
He can do this by whatever means he wants to. He has got rid of most of the experienced players, changed the style of play and brought in youth as he has no option due to the exedous of experience having been shipped out.

Whatever happends, ulitmately he is the man in charge and the buck stops with him, same as benitez, hodgson and dalglish. If BR comes in 12th at the end of the season, he has not done better, it is as simple as than, but i do think he needs the whole year to prove this argument. If at the end of the year we have got worse, then he must go.

As a liverpool fan I just want liverpool to win things and compete for the highest prizes. Wether we play long ball, short ball,counter attacking or employ 40 years olds or 17 years olds does not matter, what matters is every year we get better until we cannnot get any better due to us winning everything.

One of my friends summed it up for me with this. If you had 200 million of your personal wealth and a choice of Mourinho or BR to spend it to ensure liverpool competed wit hthe best, who would you trust with it? I chose mourinho without a pause. This is the reason why I think BR will never win the league with liverpool no matter how much money we throw at him.

Manalive said...

Maybe he already has done the private talks and it hasn't worked? I don't follow why you think public 'barracking' would be any less effective...

Felderkirk said...

I disagree with this. There was a danger that the public would have seen Cole as one of Rodgers' favourites due to his previous experience of coaching him at Chelsea.

With this statement, Rodgers has made it known to both Cole and to the Liverpool supporters that such absolute abject ineptitude won't be tolerated.

And I personally find it one of the few positives to take from last night's rubbish performance. Cole let himself down, as well as giving zero support to Samed Yesil who looked so terribly isolated.

The end of Cole's disgusting 4 year contract can't come soon enough for me. He's draining the club's resources.

nigwel said...

I was there and I'm tired and frustrated of putting up with Downings in-ept performances, he offerers absolutely nothing at all, poor delivery, no effort, inability to beat a man, shocking creativity, terrible vision, reluctance to shoot.... *sigh* im not a band wagon jumper.....i always have advocated that players should be given a chance...re: Lucas :-) however is just horrendous!
Henderson played fairly well considering he isnt a right back, he attacked and yes left Coates open a few times but we needed to score...no issues with him.....
Joe Cole....he was playing?! he offered nothing, no movement, no passion, no offering for the ball, he cant of had more than 10 touches! He looked like a dad wandering round a sunday league pitch after a night on the booze.
As for shelvey...perspective is needed here....is he Steven Gerrard, no, however he has only been on the scene for a short period and I think were all expecting him to be Gerrard take 2.....time is the key here...
Finally, Assaidi...hmmmm he is growing on me...he likes to take on a man...however when he got the ball into the area early the crosses were dangerous, however he does like to beat the same man 3 or 4 times before trying the cross, by which time all the defence is back and ready to deal with it. I already think he is twice the player Downing will ever be for LFC!

A disappointing result, however in the light of day, our focus is and rightly so, on the league...not the cups...so lets keep on track, with a few signing in the summer (when we wont be panic buying) and add them to the young players who have had lots of exposure this season means we would be in much better shape....

It literally is a season of re-building....keep the faith all, look at the bigger picture :-D

Will said...

That isnt really a very good summary though is it? Mourinho is one of the best managers around at the moment. Of course people would want him. Its like the poll on here the other week asking who we would rather have Messi or Suarez, its a moot point.
Who would you rather have, the best or not the best?

Simple_man67 said...

+1

Billyparkes2009 said...

The 4 players in question were extremely poor last night. Cole was terrible. He shouldn't of been played in the centre, and hopefully doesnt play again. Allen had a great game, yes he got caught on the ball a few times but he generally won it back. Assisaidi didn't do much.

We really need 3 players in Jan. Huntelaar, Mertens and another player that can play along the top 3. Our attack would then be Mertens on the left, Huntelaar in the centre and Suarez on the right.

With these players I feel we can be very competitive.
Our midfield is as good as the best in the league when Lucas returns in a few weeks.

Pete said...

Fantastic article.

BR's comments IMO are fair. He can say whatever he likes, and you mentioned it goes against his 'all about the team' talk however he has every right to say what's on his mind.

It's not direct criticism, Brenden just alludes to things. He says things like "Henderson has great application, willingness to learn" and he said "Downing can play at left back". He alludes that Henderson can get himself into the team, and that Downing has a future at the club.

It's the same in this situation: BR alludes that Shelvey needs to involve himself more in the game. He needs to impose himself. Assaidi and Downing can fit into this too - Although I see them as attackers. IMO he's just talking about Shelvey and Cole.

BR also makes reference to Joe Cole's wages and that he must grasp at opportunities otherwise he wont be here for much longer.

It's deserving - Shelvey is inconsistent and Joe Cole has never had a good game in a red shirt.

Just how I saw it...

Simple_man67 said...

BR needs to weigh up who Gerrard/Carraghers' best mates at the club are before mouthing off.
One word from these two and it's game over.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

This could turn into a nightmare of a season for a great club. Liverpool are no longer a force they used to be. Under Benitez Liverpool were one of the hardest teams to beat in Europe. I'd give Rodgers a year to prove himself though...Hopefully he proves me wrong.

Chirag Vyas said...

Funny how you don't think same about Suarez. Its ok to bash him in public.

Clumosi said...

allen has been gpd but with swansea he was so poor.rodgers as good as i believe he is must not be this this biased.

Tim A Moseley said...

Downing is always playing on the right it showed against Anzhi as soon as he was on the left hand side he looked a far more confident player, but wingers like Downing do not suit Rodgers style of play especially if you only have a small man like Suarez in the box and he has publicly said this.

Allen hasn't impressed me as much as he has Rodgers but it is early days and I agree to single him out and to say he was playing on his own in the first half is very much creating a teachers pet scenario, and other players aren't going to like it and it will cause a split in the squad.

Rodgers has publicly came out and said Downing, Henderson, Carroll n Cole dont really fit into his plans and no matter how well they play they wont stay in the team so what encouragement does that give them, Assaidi was fantastic against Anzhi then got dropped back to the bench, and to moan about having a thin squad can only be based on the players he played in last nights game he doesnt think are good enough because most of those players who played would get into most Premier league teams.
The only area we are short on is Strikers and he is partly to blame for that as he should have been firmer with the management above and said Carroll isn't going anywhere until a replacement is at the club as with the Torres affair.

Last season we were only a bit of luck and a little more consistency away from a lot higher finish in the league and to completely change the philosophy of the style of play is like Mcdonalds one day saying from tomorrow we will only serve vegetarian food you set your team up to suit the players you have and then change it as new players come in.

mrchopper said...

My guess is that Rodgers sees Cole and Downing as old enough to take a bollocking and crack on, whereas he still views Allen as quite young/raw and so feels the need to praise him. Same goes for Shelvey and Sterling. The problem is that not everybody reacts in the same way to encouragement (or lack of it) and a good manager should know how to speak to each of his players. Rodgers has only been a manager for a very short amount of time and it's all part of the learning experience, so he's still incredibly young in building his cache of experience up.

I thought Allen was poor last night, as was Sterling. They are young, however, and I'd argue they're being asked to play far too many games. Problem is, we don't really have a choice. We either try and bed everybody in where possible (e.g. cup matches), or we play the same team week-in week-out.

I'd like to see Cole be given a chance at another Premier League club, just to see if he's really not wearing the shirt well.

FdotM said...

Great article as always Jamie.

I was looking at the clubs official website comment section about the game and it was funny how so many fans were calling for his head! They saying he was not good enough etc... Plastic fans!

Granted the performance was poor, and certain players did not push their weight but to single out Allen for praise when he played poorly as well is poor man management and disrespectful to the other players.

I hate it when Managers try and protect their players when it is unwarranted. He should have just said the the whole team did not perform to the ability he knows they can and that's it.

I don't know why Cole was playing when there are younger players who need the experience. From the line up I knew BR was not taking this competition seriously (to be honest I don't blame him).

Overall it was a poor performance but to be honest I could see Swansea coming in and beating us so no real surprise there.

We need 2-3 players this January in my opinion. A full back, striker and attacking midfielder.

Still, BR is the man for the job, it's just going to take time. We are not the Liverpool of old we used to know.

Gerard_moran said...

I agree with you that the buck stops with the manager but I don't agree that he should definitely be sacked at the end of the season if we don't finish higher than last season. If we are making good progress throughout the season and we can start to see things taking shape, I don't care if we finish 10th this season. We can't expect instant success, it is going to take time. If the signs are good and we make some good additions in January, he should definitely be given time. People really should stop banging on about Mourinho as well. No doubt he is a brilliant Manager but he goes against what the club is trying to build and achieve. He achieves instant success with his 1st team and places hardly any focus on the youth teams which I don't agree with. This means that he achieves success for himself and the club when he is there but there are no building blocks for the future when the next guy comes in because it was all about Mourinhos success.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

Rodgers seems to be giving significant praise to the players he bought..ie Joe Allen. What about Borini? He's a load of s****. I'd have Carroll any day before him. Kenny Dalglish had a better team last year and was treated like s*** by Liverpool's owners

Akhoosain said...

well we will soon see what he is made off. A fighter who could be hurt by criticism and make an effort to improve or a player who will let the clock run on his career and collect his wages. Why dont you like criticism in public? If it gives the player a boost so be it. There is no right way or wrong way of dealing with things ( there was the liverpool way that doesnt exist anymore) . How do you know that he has repeatedly warned him to buck up and he hasn?. He must have watched in training and reserve matches, so surely he would have told him so. Do you really think he will get a premiership chance again on this performance? Lets face reality , u are upset because its not the Liverpool way . This is not the liverpool teams of the past. I think the manager has shown acceptable supoport in the past. I rather a straight forward man that speaks his mind. Maybe thats what the players need . they probably need tofear the manager , rather than be friends. Atleast Joie cole knows where he stands and so do we. I am not hear to make u understand my point of view . I am expressing mine. U disagree thats fine. But lets not argue it.

Felderkirk said...

West Ham.

Pete said...

We aren't throwing money at him anyway...

I agree though, BR isn't here to consolidate, he is here to do better.

BillyDeane09 said...

Cole got signed for free and got a big signing on fee and wages of 80k a week for what, 3 seasons I think, shades of Andy Van Der Meyde, without the shandies. Cole has been the most overrated English midfielder in years, his strength for both Chelsea and England was to come on late in the game when the opposition was tired when he was effective. Put him in a starting role then he is a dud and always has been.
As for Downing, he is one of the most useless players I have seen in a Liverpool shirt, when do you ever go home from a match and say Downing was fab he done this or that, which with a wide player you should be saying as they ar played for their skills and craft of which he has none.
I do not think Rodgers came across well in the Being Liverpool programme. I cannot say I have taken to the guy and only time will tell but at this present moment in time he looks like a guy from a small club who manages a big club, who can talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Jradova said...

Brendan Rodgers out,when we were top in Europe under Benitez you were all so clever and asking him to leave because of one bad season,and because of English manager now ,you think everything is going ok.

Jradova said...

We deserve serious manager not BR.In Rafa i trusted and i still trust.We see what happenns under 3 English manager in last 2 years appart Kenny.

Will said...

Yea Borini was terrible last night, I dont even think he touched the ball.... I mean come on! A broken foot, what a loser, I cant believe he didnt man up and score a hattrick. /Sarcsm

FdotM said...

Mourinho is a fantastic manager, at the same time his success has also been due to having large amounts of money to spend, or inheriting a already world class squad.

However his man management skills are the best.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

Liverpool need at least four signings in January....n no more of these overated English players.
Their number one target should be Huntelaar...he's played with suarez at ajax and scored loads of goals. His contract is up so he shouldn't be that expensive.
Jesus Navas...why not just put in a big bid and try and get this fella. Liverpool have been lacking a flair player now for years.
Christian Eriksen should be another option

OriginalChan said...

What English manager?

jimmyswinningmatches said...

He's been brutal this year, they haven't missed him since he got injured. Why did Rodgers spend a over 11 million on him? They could've got Dempsey for six..doesn't make any sense n don't say because of his age. Arsenal got Cazorla for four million less than Borini...what a joke

Will said...

Yes he has been blessed with a lot of money, but he did a great job at Porto, and I know if you gave me £400 million, I probably wouldnt win anything ;-P I get your point though.

Sugarray said...

I just saw Fergie blaming the loss to Chelsea solely on Nani...how's that compared to Cole?

Chris Rogers said...

If you start a game with Joe Cole, you are not taking it seriously.

Felderkirk said...

Also from last night:
'All we needed to do was see the game out by keeping possession,' said Sir Alex Ferguson. 'But Nani decided to try and beat a player, lost the ball and they got a penalty kick against us.'

Chris Rogers said...

As Kenny proved.....never go back....

Will said...

He hasnt been brutal at all. He has been postive and has actually looked hungry. You cant judge a player on a handful of performances. What would you be saying about him if he had been playing last night and won the game for us? Would he suddenly be a top signing? Cazorla has scored 1 more goal than him.

FdotM said...

True, very true. Although Porto has always had a superior squad to Sporting and Benfica for the past 10 years easily. Still he proved it in the CL.

I wonder what the owners would do if Mourinho stated he wants to come to Anfield to make us great again?

Jradova said...

Brendan Rodgers,who else,is he Spanish.Is NI part of UK.ANSWER YES.

Will said...

Yea I meant the CL.
That would be an interesting prospect! I for one would like it, with Rodgers as his 2nd in command... why not!

BillyDeane09 said...

Northern Ireland is not part of England so therefore he is not English.

Jradova said...

We cant attract many players at this stage ,so we need real manager who can persuade these players to come to LFC .ANSWER RAFA BENITEZ.

Chris Rogers said...

I disagree about the telly programme. BR had no option but to be in it. Its how the owners are looking to get the Yanks involved to start buying the shirts etc and putting money in the club. Yes it was not pleasant, but that's the nature of world sport these days. Outside of the David Brentisms BR came across quite well.

Cole was a gamble. I thought there was something to get out of him, except the money he has cost is a disgrace. Someone messed up there. Downing is no threat.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

He's part of them so called English greats...Terry, Ferdinand, Carrick, Lampard...Good players in their day but past it. Liverpool should start signing more Spanish players...Mata can't even make the Spanish team n has arguably been the best player in the prem this year. Arteta has never made the squad n he's pretty good. Cazorla doesn't make the Spanish team either n has been class for Arsenal.
Torres n Alonso have arguably been Liverpool's best signings of the last decade or more...We need more Spanish players.

Chris Rogers said...

Blinkered drivel.

L4forLFC said...

Coles LFC Career was over a long time ago everbody knows it. In fact it never really got started if we are honest. If players can be publically praised they should be publically criticised when appropriate. LFCs midfield last night was poor but then Downing and Cole are poor players. Rogers should look at his team selection as well

L4forLFC said...

Coles LFC Career was over a long time ago everbody knows it. In fact it never really got started if we are honest. If players can be publically praised they should be publically criticised when appropriate. LFCs midfield last night was poor but then Downing and Cole are poor players. Rogers should look at his team selection as well

BillyDeane09 said...

Benitez can only operate with loads of dosh, which he will not get under this American regime. I cannot see him coming back, they have a philosphy in baseball not to hire big name managers and this has followed in football also bringing in Rodgers.

Jaimie K said...

What the feck do Ferguson's comments have to do with anything? We're talking about LFC.

Jaimie K said...

Nothing has changed. I'm still behind Rodgers, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise him. You seem to have also have ignored the fact that I restate my support for him in the article itself.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

That's bullshit. Suarez wasn't scoring last yr for a while but he was still a great player. If Borini won the game last night i'd be saying fair play but still a very average player. Cazorla is way better and he's not a STRIKER...still more goals than him. How many more asissts has Cazorla...Borini is not good enough for Liverpool.

trutherts said...

arguments that contain unacceptable language ('Feck') will be removed and you will be banned if the behaviour continues

beware This post contains sarcasm

Alanable said...

I agree we are probably better off out of the COC! The more focus we can have on the league the better. Last season showed that no great praise goes for winning the league cup anymore.

I think BR was trying to talk Allen up on his return to his old club. It does seem he is trying to make himself look better by constantly singling his own signing out for praise. I suppose in this day and age a manager has to do whatever it takes to keep the masses on his side. YNWA! BR!

FdotM said...

That would be cool, one can dream. Anyway back to reality, we are several years away to match the team we had in 08-09. What a team we had, I took it for granted :(

Jaimie K said...

Feldy doesn't mind. He gets it :-)

L4forLFC said...

Amazing, really 4 signings If you are going to sign players then the player you are signing needs to A) Be better than the player he has bee signed to replace B) Be available and C) Want to come to Anfield.
So look at LFCs Team
Goalkeeper Reina, Jones, Doni (Due back after leave of absence for personal reasons) - Reina has had a loss of Form but still a top 10 in Europe Keeper and his form will return. Jones okay Doni decent. So applying A B and C from above who do we need to sign
Go right through the team and apply the same logic the only area we need to strengthen is the strike force and we need 2.
Rogers has a tough task but any manger coming in would have the same task. This season we will win nothing and finish outside of any european places next season we must have improvement

L4forLFC said...

just as a further note to my response I think that Kenny should have been given until Christmas and not sacked when he was. After the decision to sack him ws taken we should have re-appointed Rafa.
Rogers has come in and I am trying to support him. Even give him time there is no point in changing managers we need continunity

Martin Badger said...

Totally disagree with you ( as usual ). He is given the sort of salary a top doctor at a hospital - a man who actually does a useful job - could only dream about. He does absolutely nothing to earn that salary and, in addition, he should be exempt from criticism? Why? He should be booed off the pitch each time he appears on it - that way perhaps he'd get the message that he's a waste of space.
The Liverpool midfield was, in a word, pathetic. But there is nothing new about that and nothing new about Liverpool apologists like yourself defending them.

Will said...

He has 2 assists I think. Borini has also been played on the wing which we shouldnt forget. Im not saying Borini is going to be a legend, im just saying I think its a bit unfair to judge him so harshly after only a handful of games.

OriginalChan said...

You said 'English' in your initial post. As Billy said, NI is not a part of England. Also, NI isn't a part of Great Britain. However, NI is a part of the UK, which is not what you said in your initial post. So were you wrong in your original post? 'ANSWER YES'

Martin Badger said...

It's November and the club has won two matches. The manager clearly hasn't got a clue. Why are you so full of trust? BR is clearly poorer than Hodgson - why wasn't he given the same support? Why are some players dumped almost immediately and others - like the simply dreadful Henderson - given one chance after another?
But you are right about the bollocking.

OriginalChan said...

Oh dear, oh dear.

Jim said...

jradova dimwit, there has been only 1 englishman in the last 3 (Kenny is a Scot!). Shall I call rafa a Frenchman?

Ranting Redone said...

It's not good enough full stop. This is Liverpool and we have a guy in charge who talks the game well but can't get his team to do things on the pitch. He let so many key players leave and didn't replace them - last guy to that was Souness.

We are a laughing stock at the moment. Think of where we were only a few years ago and where we are now. A guy trying to turn us into Barcelona on a shoestring budget playing a formation that leaves us wide open to counter attacks (all season, not just this game) and I am just sick of it. This is LFC, we deserve better.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

Who do you think we should sign in January? I'm curious what Liverpool fans think

jimmyswinningmatches said...

Fair enough...I suppose alot of liverpool fans were hard on Lucas at the start n look how he turned out. I just have a bad feeling about Borini, I hope he proves me wrong

TomP said...

Precisely. You never realise what you have until its gone. I like to think I knew it though; and I know it now!

OriginalChan said...

Allegedly, things are going well for Nani at United (contract-related issues, which has allegedly led to him being down the pecking order), so I am not surprised that Ferguson highlighted his mistake in such a frank manner.

BillyDeane09 said...

Liverpool under Rodgers play 10 yards infront of the 18 yard line which allows the oppostion to push forward.
Rodgers let Carroll go leaving one decent striker, buying Borini - failing to understand that this is Liverpool not Swansea - starting with a back-four that have not played together - not realising the Capital Cup is the only chance of Silverware playing a home tie in the quarters against Boro, having no offensive plan - playing 2 wingers crossing the ball to short players, playing Downing, playing Henderson anywhere but his position, liking the sound of his own voice too much ............ he seems to think that he is a great manager... not a great CV other than lucky to inherit Martinez's side at Swansea.

BillyDeane09 said...

he thinks Dalglish is English too haha

BillyDeane09 said...

Rodgers appears to be using Fergie as his mentor.
The 3 envelope trick for example, and Fergie often singles out individuals particularly ones with a short future at the club ie Nani.
As much as I despite old whiskeynose, Rodgers has an awful long way to go to reach, if ever, the heights that Fergie has achieved as a manager.

BillyDeane09 said...

whether he plays badly nor doesnt play at all he will still pick up his 80k a week and drive round in his posh club car and live in his swanky house.

Martinmarx said...

Look at what we've become. After 10 years of mismanagement of this once great club "the most knowledgeable fans in the world" demand instant success instead of realising we're engaged in a dismantling process rather than a rebuilding process. It will take this and most of next seson to reach stability at all levels of the club. That is an absolute requirement for having in place a united LFC. Then and only then will it be fair to ask for results.

The sooner we all realise how far behind we've allowed ourself to drift, the better. I have no doubt in my mind Brendan Rodgers will hand us no. 19 albeit not as quickly as most of us would wish.

OriginalChan said...

hehe I thought my first reply would get him to think, double-check and correct himself as we all make mistakes but no, he didn't get it, instead he added in a bit of smart-arse attitude, which made it more funny.

davee said...

why should'nt he bollock cole & downing they are crap, whatever job you do a brickie or a van driver if you mess up you have abollocking simple

RafasDAYSwehereTHEgloryDAYS said...

We are left with Rafas youth system which is bearing fruit,we are left with Rafas,Reina skertle agger johnson as great defence when all fit,we are left with Rafas Lucas when fit and we have Allen and Suarez who have been the only success since Rafas sacking even though including wages £340m have been spent since Rafas departure.What a bloody joke of a club we now have.I hope Rafa is sat at home with a big grin on his face but he wont be because hes a great guy i just hope he gets what he deserves the madrid or barca job he is nw to big nd too good for the LFC job,so all you lot who wanted hm out icludng Gerrard andespecially Carra i hope you rot in hell.

Jradova said...

i agree with you, probably will not happen

Jradova said...

I have to agree,no chance but you never know

Jobsy said...

Jaimie why do you support him as manager surely you must have some doubts creeping in now? The guy is just a self inflated ego who takes credit for the way Swansea play when he had nothing to do with it at all, as i have said many times Swansea have played that way for years and are still doing so now, for FSG to put their trust in a man who is nothing more then average (but has a 100+ page dossier on how the game should be played) is a serious concern for me, but i do think he would make an exceptional salesman in the liverpool store!
He is failing mate and although i liked him when first brought to the club but now i am seeing a guy who is all about the talk, a bit like a salesman..

Jradova said...

Bring Rafa back and you see it doesnt take much to get back

Gazzaroo said...

Really ??????????????????????????

Alanable said...

Hodgson is an experienced manager who was making us use a familiar system to the players he shouldn't have needed so much time to get things right. Also, he had the team playing horrendous football and his appointment was the work of H+G so the new owners wanted to stamp their mark on things, which is not uncommon.

Rodgers is trying to instill a newer more difficult system to be in place for many years. Alot of the goals that have cost us were the result of individual errors which hopefully will be ironed out soon.

jimmyswinningmatches said...

I think Rafa did extremely well at liverpool but his last year in charge he made some ridiculous descisions...eg. they were losing to reading/ i think n he decided to take off torres n Benayoun. Gerrard started looking up to the air. He wanted Alonso to leave n replace him with Gareth Barry. I acknowledge the fact that he did do well but he made bad decisions. I think it's time to get someone new

Martinmarx said...

I have never during my + 30 years of watching us play found us so predictable, uninspiring, dull, dire, passionless and bloodless as we did during Rafa's last 3 years in charge. No doubt you'll point to the spring of 2009. But that was when it was all to late, when he had wasted our best chance in 2 decades to win it by drawing against Fulham, West Ham, Hull and Stoke in November and December. Before his egoistic and totally pointless attack on Fergie. Before his decision he couldn't work with Parry. In Rafa's world there was Rafa, then Rafa and Rafa, then, at best, came something called LFC. T'was kreat to win the CL but on the balance of things .... No doubt he was good in Europe but at the end of the day he was nowhere closer to understand the PL in May 2010 he was 6 years earlier. Rafa was all about Rafa and no manager has done more than him to well and truly bury what was once known as "the Liverpool way".

I'm just glad he's gone and never will come back. He seems to struggle to get a proper job these days anyroad. Says something to me at least.

TomP said...

We'll see. If BRs understands so much - as you profess - he should surely be relaxed about what is happening at all times and not publicly criticising players. That smacks of the first signs of losing your grip.

Philipdean said...

to be honest buddy you have answered your own argument. the players currently coming through have nothing to do with BR. we did have a manager once that was building for the future whilst fending off H&G and trying to keep us in the top 4, he had a poor season that was only poor for his own standards but better than hodgson, dalglish and the currennt incumbunts possible finishes. BR may be playing the youth but who brought and put the people in place to develop them?? You say you do not agree he should be sacked if we are making good progress, well if progress does not get better from here, we are in a relegation fight so it must get better or he will be out of the door by christmas. progress to me is finishing higher than the manager uo replaced as you replaced this manager because you are supposed to do better, not worse.

Philipdean said...

dump BR like a lead balloon !!

jimmyswinningmatches said...

Liverpool's owners destroyed the club during Benitez's reign in charge. However he was able to splash the cash in order to buy Torres, Babel, Benajoun, etc. Liverpool's new owners are having the same negative effect on Rodgers as well...no replacement for Carroll at the end of the transfer window was a disgrace. He shouldn't have went until they lined up a replacement.
Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson seem to have more power to make decisions at their clubs...Even Mourinho was limited in what he could do at Chelsea and was ultimately forced out. Abramovich, Henry, and City's owners have ruined the Premier League.
How the hell are Liverpool going to win the premiership if they can't even buy a top class player now? Assaidi, Allen, Borini...Compare these to Chelsea, Man United, Arsenal and City's new boys Hazard, Oscar, Cazorla, Van Persie, Ageuro...there's no comparision...Liverpool are a long way behind. Until Liverpool get new owners who are willing to spend big we will never win the prem...not in my lifetime. We couldn't even afford to buy Dempsey at the end of the transfer window for six million.

TomP said...

Exactly

TomP said...

Hear hear. If we want to play tiki taka, why don't we go and buy Iniesta and Xavi. Oh yeah we don't have £200m sitting around. What BRs is trying to imitate is regarded by many as the pinnacle of football excellence. Not much to live up to then. The harsh lesson we'll learn is there is no in between; either you can dominate possession to the level Barcelona do and pin the other team back or the opposition will work out you can't really do that properly and start carving you open at will.

The notion that we can emulate Barcelona is a seductive one which certainly fits with our history and style, but the reality is a harsh one i'm afraid. Joe Allen and co would be lucky to tie Iniesta's boots.

Rafa would have secured Anfield by now. No problem.

Gerard_moran said...

I was a fan of Rafa myself but he wouldn't suit these owners. When Rafa has big money to spend on players, he generally gets it right. I think nearly all of his transfers over 10-12 million were successful apart from Babel. May be others but can't think of any off the top of my head. If he had the money that was wasted under Dalglish and Comolli, I am sure he would have made some v good signings but the belt has been tightened so I am not sure it would suit him now.
We all agree that the new Manager should do better than the previous one, otherwise why appoint him but my issue with some fans is they want the progress instantly and if we don't see it this season, sack him. I don't think the club will make any progress like that. If he is making progress and we as fans can see that the team are starting to perform as we all want, he should be given another year and not sacked on the basis that he finishes however many places below the previous season. This project could take a few seasons to get right. I couldn't believe some fans at the start of the season saying they expected a top 4 finish this season. In my opinion, that is just unrealistic at the moment and the fans need to realise that this is going to take time.
I personally like what I am seeing in terms of what Rodgers wants to do and if I look at his background I am very optimistic about the future. What other Irish or British managers have gone abroad and studied the different aspects of Europes top clubs while learning Spanish and Italian in the process. Some may think this isn't important but I bet if you are a foreign player that doesn't speak English, you will immediately respect a Manager that can communicate with you and can put his ideas across to you himself instead of relying on a translator or Agent. The other thing that encourages me is the fact that people like Mourinho and Del Bosque think so highly of him. Del Bosque has given him an open invitation to join up with the Spanish squad whenever he has the time to study their methods and pick Del Bosque brain. He is obviously held in high regard. We all have our opinions as fans and believe we are right but I don't think I know more than those 2 Managers. I believe if he is given the time, he will get it right and lead us back to glory. Though I would love to see Rafa back at the club in some aspect. The man has a lot to offer.

Akshay Mathur said...

Good point. I feel if you give someone a 3-year contract and give assurances while signing him, u ll back him fully atleast till his term is finished...They gonna arrange the bucks for sure...c'mon FSG, baseball can take a backseat..we need some money here!

Akshay Mathur said...

U yourself killed the sarcasm with ur last line :|

Jradova said...

perfect ,perfect,perfect ,i see i am not the only one who feels what is the best for our beloved club,rafa rafa benitez

Jradova said...

you are either man utd fan or you dont understand football at all.My question is ,when was the last time you felt proud as lfc fan,i am gonna help you ,when rafa was in charge ,i would love to chalange for title and finished 2nd rather than be 8 th or near relegation zone.WAKE UP BECAUSE ALL YOU WROTE IS ONE NONSENSE.

Motherleopardd said...

spot on mate. I felt like allen was playing like a captain last night. He would snap in to a tackle out of no where and you could tell he wanted to beat his old team. Joe cole was absolutely anonymous the whole match. I kinda agree with jamie in that he didnt have his best match but his commitment and desire far surpassed his midfield partners. I feel thats a little harsh on jonjo but he really didnt do anything.

gilstrap said...

im sick of of lazy crap players getting a free ride....good on rogers for embarrassing them it may make them try and play harder knowing there gonna be slated in front of friends and family

billythe cat said...

rafa his time was up. fact.hodgson should never have been allowed anywere near anfield fact. kenny cost me alot of money last season fact.goin to wembley aint cheap .fact . and goin 3 times in 1 season.bloody hell . he defo desevedto be shit on from a great height. john henry u were a disgrace at wembley .no respect to kk . fact .you reap what u sow fact . we are now in very deep shit .sell up make a fast buck and go back to what your good at runnin a bloody rounders team .if not get your had in your pocket and buy big in jan.be warned the fans wont put up with this shit much longer

Brian -Ormskirk said...

Last night's game proved that LFC do not have sufficient depth in reserve to mount a sustained challenge in all four competitions. It also proved that certain players do not possess either the ability, nor the passion to play for the club. The way forward is with the young players now getting their chance. Brendan Rogers is between a rock and a hard place. Damed if he looses a match by having to play a second eleven and damned for not having bought quality replacements, even though he has no money in the kitty due to mismanagement by prevous regimes. When did I last feel proud of LFC ? Let me see,that would be Istanbul ! Do remind me how many years ago that was. Benitz is now part of the club history. He has gone. He will not be back. Accept it ! The future is with a young manager and young players. We are not even half way through the season and some of the abuse being hurled at Brendan Rogers is totally unwarranted. Feel free to comment again when we are out of every competition and in the bottom three !

RAFASdaysWEREtheGLORYdays said...

Dalglish manipulated the fans and the board by firstly undermining Rafa at matches,sat next to Rush whisperining in Rushes ear as though he could do better.He manipulated the board by promising the gullible yanks he would spend the money as though it was his own.£35m+ £20m +£20m on absolute joke players,all on 5 year contracts worth £70m between the 3 stoodges.those 3 inc wages come to £145m.Rafa would of got in the likes of llorente,Falcao who would of set anfield alight.No wonder KD couldnt look JH in the eye so JH ignored him,i couldnt look someone in the eye if id lied and cheated just to get what i wanted to try a make a sudden impact instead of using the money wisely.KD is selfish thinking of making a unstant impact by paying ludicrous sums,he also got rid of Tom Ince whose now valued at £14m for nothing.

Gothmog said...

What's up with you guys, Brendan Rodgers is just 2,5 month into this season and you want Benitez back already .... now that's what I call support ....

billythe cat said...

1st and formost kenny replced hogson not rafa .rafas parting shot was to sign an injured itaian for18 million.kenny sign LS AND AC with the money he got for ft and babbel . torres dropped us in the shit with the timing of his move. who knows what kenny was sayin to rushie ,u certainly dont !! and ince was a loud mouth. wunder who he takes after thats why he got emptied out. 14 million ur havin a laugh

bigwhitemonkey said...

Every other manager we have had you would have been at their throats now baying for blood,Rodgers given a year,wow how decent of you ,I suppose you can call for his head later,whenever you feel like it.

Felderkirk said...

Ah God. I'm sorry. I didn't see that bit. Forgive me.

Philipdean said...

progress is defined by results! if you come 12th your not doing to good!!!

Adam Griffin said...

I think what is said in the media and what goes on behind closed doors is going to be quite different. If we knew precisely what Rodgers was saying to players in their private post match conversations then perhaps it would be a different story. I don't really think it's valid to pick out sounds bites from media conferences and from only that infer that Rodgers is creating some kind of environment or "teachers pet" mentality, there is just far too much we don't know. Our desperate inferences as worried fans is understandable, we really want to be involved and know what's going wrong when we lose games, but surely we can all see how silly it is to imagine we really know what the dressing room is like.
How do we know that Rodgers analysis is not entirely accurate? He's the man who knows the precise strategy, what he asked his players to do and whether or not they lived up to expectations. If Shelvey and Downing didn't produce what was asked of them or expected of them then they'd be the first ones to put their hands up, wouldn't they? Why does Rodgers need to sugar coat his reaction to a poor performance? Are these players mentally fragile who need to be coddled and told how great they are every day in order to build their confidence? These are rhetorical questions by the way, the reality is again that as fans we haven't got the first clue if what Rodgers is doing is poor man management or not. We don't know these players and how they react. We don't know their attitude in training or in the dressing room. It's an over-reaction when we think a few comments in a post-match conference for a home game in which we were well beaten are to be taken to heart. Rodger's man management skills will come out on the pitch, no where else. If these players pick up their game and play well in the future then maybe a public acknowledgement of their failings was exactly what they needed.

Sonny Blundell said...

Right on the nose adam.

Fantastico-Galactico said...

The only thing ridiculous here is your comment...Torres was carrying a hamstring injury during that game! The very next game he pulled it fully and was out for a while!
You need to try harder to find a flaw with Rafa...

He's a LFC legend and I amongst many await his return :))

Fantastico-Galactico said...

If you truly love LFC then you have to love what Rafa did for our club....

I'm happy to let BR have his fun, but finishing outside the top 6 is not an option for him. If he does then there can only be one man for the job.

Rafa was so bad that the core of the team he left are still there and more than what he signed them for :D

karlito said...

Rodgers must have been watching with Allen blinkers on as he played no better than shelvey etc. In midfield,they all seemed under-par this as you point out,is possibly down to all the changes in our thin squad,the only player who let us & himself down was Joe cole,so please no more chances for him at Liverpool,he's no longer good enough,he may have been some time ago !

Nightlightknight said...

Just because Rodgers singles out a player for praise in Allen, it's undermining the rest of the midfield by implication? I'm sorry, but that's just one way what he said can be 'spun' I read it as him praising Allen's performance, the fact that he implies Joe was running the midfield on his own does not indicate he is criticising the others, he's merely calling attention to the nature of Allen's involvement. Alright, it might not be the most diplomatic things to say, but only by injecting a negative connotation to what he said can Rodgers be construed to have slated the rest of the midfield.

And as for criticising Joe Cole, what criticism? Rodgers is just saying what the situation is, Cole must know that this is his opportunity to make something of himself, and that's precisely what Rodgers is saying, again, if you spin it another way then yes, there is an implied criticism, but only if you interpret it that way, for all we know he might just have been spelling out the task ahead of Joe Cole, and that's it.

Overall, bit of a storm in a teacup I think.

Gaz said...

Maybe if he was part of another club, but fans of LFC don't do that on the whole, one or two bad performances, sure, but not booing for the sake of booing, LFC fans are known worldwide for being intelligent fans, so to make a comment like you have, you mustn't be a LFC fan.

Lloyddaa said...

I watched the game Allen was fantastic his work rate positioning throughout was fantastic shelvy was ok done absolutely nothing he perked up a bit once the changes were made at half time but nothing special and then there is Joe what has gone on there a exciting player now one that couldn't light a match. Rogers is right to give them all critisism because they were out played by a Swansea side who were well organized and effective Brendan will get it right he was just unplanned S.T.I.D

CostasY said...

We should all congratulate Brendan Rodgers for being humiliated by Michael Laudrup and his former club Swansea. We should all congratulate FSG who as ownership really appointed such a talented manager and who really proved that last night by guiding one of the most historical teams in the elimination from the Carling Cup competition. Good job to both of you Brendan Rodgers and FSG!

Rowanuk said...

its ok to kick underperforming players. they have all had ample chance to impress and yet some of them still dont seem to put the effort in required at an EPL side.
Cole had 3 offers to leave the club in the summer and refused because of $$. This is a clear signal from BR that he should goto russia or west ham.
Downing, henderson and enrique are going the same way unless they start playing well whenever given a chance.
we can not afford to carry any slackers in the squad. if it was mourinho , he would get tough(unlike spineless kenny)and boot those type of players out.

Rowanuk said...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/9649282/Liverpool-will-bankroll-Brendan-Rodgers-after-his-patience-snaps.html

Aw said...

Mourinho publicly slated cole at Chelsea then next 6 months he had the best form of his career to date

Agent7534 said...

Improve his performance???? are u kidding? no good manager on earth will give cole another chance after this poor display.That was the last drop.Only a stupid football fan will want him anywhere near the sqad.

Hemrajm said...

At Inter Mourinho made 2 Changes ie Lucio and Sneider , he could see the potential of the team

Don't see that in Brendan

Chicken G said...

The fact is, Rodgers is a new-ish manager who is trying to establish himself at Liverpool. He is on probation with the most knowlegeable fans in football and he knows it. If he came out and supported Cole's abject performance the other night he would lose all credibility. He needs to be showing the fans that he can and does identify performances which are unacceptable to Liverpool which in turn instils confidence in us that he can go on to rectify the problems. I've played football a fair bit, and know that when your lungs are bursting after 80 minutes there's no more powerful incentive to dig deep and put in those last ounces of effort then knowing there's a manager on the side-lines who will destroy you if you don't. Publically or privately, that's the manager's prerogative. The guy who mentioned Fergie above is spot on. Fergie wouldn't tolerate it, and neither should our manager. He's there to manage, not make friends.

Tim A Moseley said...

Just watched the Swansea game in more detail on LFC TV and paying particular attention to Allen's performance and the first half he was terrible gave the ball away and was knocked off the ball far to many times and for Rodgers to say he was playing on his own in the first half in midfield is a joke and shows favouritism of embarrassing proportions.

Downing looked good in the first but playing a left footer on the right doest work because its runners in front a run on the outside from the full back to drag the defender out to create space as he was telling Henderson on more than one occasion to go on the outside but not Henderson's fault he isn't a fullback and when Downing was making runs he had no forward movement to pass to so he had to always stop turn round and then pass backwards.

Shelvey was by far the best midfielder in the first half, Assaidi didnt really get into the game because he wasn't given the ball and when he did just like Downing the nearest Liverpool player was at least 25 yards away from them. If Brendan Rodgers thought Joe Allen had an incredible first half he was watching a different game to what I have just seen I just hope he isn't one of those managers who only sees what he wants to see because in my opinion I didn't see what he saw, and yes I think it is bad man management to single out one player saying he was incredible when in fact he wasn't and the fact was so obvious will make the other players wonder why he gets such high praise for a terrible performance and they dont when they actually played better.

lowey said...

regardless of the small squad, and good clear out is still needed.
more youth into the 1st team if need be.
id rather see a 15 year old hopefull than the likes of cole feeling sorry for them selves with no bottle.
roll on january and lets see if the owners make amends for our last laughable transfer window

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