3/23/2012 03:00:00 pm

The Progress Myth: Proof that LFC is doing relatively *worse* under Dalglish...

Liverpool manager Kenny Daglish recently claimed that anyone who didn't think the club had progressed this season needed an 'intelligence check'. Today, he insisted once again that Liverpool had progressed this season, but is this actually true? When it comes to cup competitions then yes, the club improved; however, winning cups is not an accurate barometer of overall progression, and as I will illustrate, in relative terms, the club has *regressed* in the league, and Dalglish is actually doing worse than Roy Hodgson.

The treatment of Roy Hodgson by Liverpool 'fans' was an absolute disgrace, and if he had presided over the abject league mediocrity we've seen this season, fans would be burning effigies of him outside Anfield.

The hypocrisy of fans is truly amazing: In relative terms, Dalglish has done *worse* than Hodgson, yet he's given all the time and consideration in the world. This is understandable given his status as a club legend, but it just makes the treatment of Hodgson look even more disgraceful in comparison.

Let's cut to the chase: Liverpool have regressed in the league under this season, and it doesn't matter how you try and twist the truth, the club is doing worse under Dalglish than it was under Hodgson.

When considering the following figures, you need to ask yourself: is this a good enough 'improvement' after spending 117m? Read it and weep:



Dalglish has had every advantage this season:

* Tens of millions to spend
* No European distraction
* Settled and supportive board
* No conflict behind the scenes
* Carte blanche to do run things his way
* 100% support of the fans

Hodgson had major pressure to deal with:

* Distracting civil war in the boardroom
* A vital and highly publicised court case to decide the club's future
* Mass player demotivation after Benitez's final season
* Unsettled players (including Fernando Torres)
* No real money to spend (Ownership situation precluded it)
* Constant personal denigration from 'fans'
* European football + the league + domestic cups


* Despite spending £89m MORE than Hodgson, Liverpool's win percentage under Dalglish is only 3% better.

* With a negative net spend of -£2m (for all you net spend cultists out there), Hodgson achieved a better home record than Dalglish.

* Despite spending over £100m on attacking new 'talent', Dalglish's goals per game ratio is the same as Hodgson's.

* The same applies to conversion rate: Tens of millions spent but it's only improved by 1.3% under Dalglish.

* Liverpool dropped 1.7 points per game under Hodgson; under Dalglish, the team is still losing 1.5 points per game.

* Again, despite spending £117m, Dalglish's 'failure to win' ratio is practically the same as Hodgson's.

* Dalglish's worst run in the league (2 wins in 10 games; 6 defeats in 8; 3 league defeats in a row) is far worse than Hodgson's worst run (5 defeats in 8 games)

* Every point/win gained under Dalglish this season has cost millions more than under Hodgson.

If Dalglish and Hodgson were on a level playing field then you could argue there has been progress in the league. However, that is NOT the case; as I noted above, Dalglish has had every advantage this season, and the miniscule individual improvements (Shooting accuracy; away wins; clean sheets etc) need to be considered in the context of a 117m transfer spend.

For that money, Liverpool should've improved much more in the league, so in relative terms, it is (arguably) accurate to say that the club is doing *worse* under Dalglish in the league.

Additionally, it should be noted that Dalglish's net spend of £37m in one season is much higher than any net spend figure under Gerard Houllier or Rafa Benitez.

Ultimately, a £117m spend has bought Liverpool:

* A 38% win percentage (just 3% more than Hodgson)
* Less home wins than Hodgson
* more home draws than Hodgson
* The same goals-per-game ratio as Hodgson
* 1.35 increase in conversion rate
* 7% more clean sheets
* 0.15 more points per game than Hodgson
* A higher cost per win/cost per point ratio

The only people who need an 'intelligence check' are those who believe that this is actually genuine league progress.

Jaimie Kanwar


OriginalChan said...

Certainly weeping :(

Gordon said...

We definitely haven't progressed. It's obvious to most of us even without this in depth analysis. The only thing that has improved is the football we play, although there is no end result (i.e. goals).

Dalglish did a good job last season but has been tactically found out this season. Like in last game, why take Suarez off with 8 minutes to go when we're only 2-1 up? He was causing all sorts of problems to the rangers defense.

I think he should set aside at the end of the season, provided we can get a good replacement. No use replacing just for the sake of it. No point him leaving now as season is almost finished.

Rohitk10 said...

all you do is critcise Liverpool, you are no true fan. Have you watched any games this season, we are miles better than Hodgson's team. The style of football we are developing will breed long term success. 

Like Shankly said, "if you dont support us when we lose or draw, then dont support us when we win" 

Steyg said...

Cant pass, cant tackle, cant dribble, cant shoot,  we are GARBAGE!, Dalglish OUT!!! end this FARCE!.

wig87 said...

So you want Hodgson back? You're deffo a manc!
The "* No european distraction" is comical! Hodgson didn't have the domestic competitions to distract him because he got knocked out in the early stages you muppet!

chrisbb said...

Look at the conversion rate... 9%... if only we had spent that £35million on... Cavani or Llorente or Higuain (not that they would have come mind)... event Bent or Defoe would have represented better value for money... the lad at Huddersfield would have probably been worth a gamble... and then £20million on Downing... what a waste!

Andy_po said...

Saying KK has spent £117M is unfair. You make it sound like he added £117M worth of talent to the squad. He spent £31M since he arrived which in the current market only gets you 1 or 2 decent players. City, Chelsea and Arsenal have spent more during the same period (plus they already had stronger squads) therefore one would expect them to be higher up the table than us. We lost Torres, Alonso and Mascherano without getting like for like replacements. That is the true reason for our demise. 

Jaimie K said...

How are we 'miles better' than Hodgson's team.  You are ignoring the facts.  Pretty football alone means nothing without results and end product. 

This site is about being realistic, and if you don't like it, please go to some other site.

OriginalChan said...

Demba Ba cost peanuts and he is a 'decent' player at least. You don't need to spend big to get 'decent' players. Though you need to spend big to buy British players, that is for sure.

Kenyan_Red said...

We have had no progress at all! May be it was more "painful" to watch under Hodgson coz we were loosing far too many [45%]. Surprisingly fans show more leniency to Dalglish than they did Hodgson. Even when Arsenal were doing poorly, there was talk of discontent at Emirites. But Anfield still seems "happy" with KD. Are we wired to accept mediocrity? 

Urajoke said...

try supporting liverpool not critising everything, ive never read a single positive article on this website wudnt b suprised if you where a man u fan, have u ever herd the sayin if u cant think of anything gud to say keep ur mouth shut

Jaimie K said...

So using your logic, Raul Meireles must have cost -2m pounds, right?

This is why the net spend argument is nonsense.

Rohitk10 said...

we have already won a trophy and are in the semi final of another. we could end with more trophies than both of the Manchester clubs.

so you expect a title winning team after one year of management. if you want to support a team that buys their success then go support chelsea or city

OriginalChan said...

We tried to buy 4th place instead

S-revis said...

Ridiculous article. We are barely any better than last year, but your 'facts' and 'proof' PROVE Kenny has made some improvement! Your article is reactionary nonsense

Jaimie K said...

If you can't debate without resorting to childish 'go and support Chelsea' nonsense then you'll be banned. If you can't hack different points of view that's not my problem.

Anyway - where did I say I wanted a 'title-winning team'?! I want a 4th-place finishing team, and that is what the Owners wanted and expected too.

Ashfah Ngog said...

Chi Bai lu, you are damn right. Never in history in the past
50 years we are this worse. I give my Chi Bai if we can finish 6th this season.

Chris said...

What are you talking about? Arsenal's net spend this season is -£17million (a profit) and the season before was only just over £8million.  The only teams to have a higher net spend than Liverpool this season are Man City and Chelsea.

And yeah, you have to consider where the team started from, but that just shows Liverpool in a worse light because they're now behind Newcastle (12th last season) and Spurs (5th last season) both of whom have lower net spends than Liverpool and just ahead of Swansea who were newly promoted this season.  

Other teams have moved forward, some have regressed (Chelsea a prime example I'd say) but Liverpool seem to have spent millions just to stay in the same place as they were last year and I worry that the cup runs will paper over the cracks just enough that the problems won't be addressed sufficiently to bring about serious improvement next season.

hzr berisha said...

one thing I know, kenny has to leave this summer, he was given the chance to make liverpool again the club that was in his time he spent like crazy and yet couldnt even secure a CL place for us how bad is this simply ridiculous so he must leave now, we know hes a legend but its not working out really hes a bad manager and buys very wrong players for lfc not lfc standards, enough with talking we need a new manager with europian modern football minded and we need class players no more over rated english flops thats all, i hope fsg sacks kenny it will hurt a bit but its the best for lfc everybody should understand this.

Virgil said...

You should choose between "Cry baby cry" and YNWA! Stop crying and keep believe in LFC and KK. Ok. Maybe you should calculate Shankly own record in his first years. This statistics show how catastrophic  H&G reign was for this club.

Chan said...

Of course KD is going to insist the team has progressed! He isn't going to hold up his hand and say "I fcuk up" is he! KD clearly wants to keep his job hence all the poor excuses he has been sprouting. John Henry must make the hard decision and sack KD in order to take the club forward. 

JustSaying said...

I can accept the defeat if KK can win the FA cup. If the next season KK still unable to achieve the top 4. He should resigned

Tzapul said...

Yep, 'cause we are plastic fans like Chelsea, you guys want Harry Potter as manager coming with a waving magic stick,making PL winner overnight!!, KD invested in the future, as for him wanting to keep his job!?! Puah! He's one of the very few left in this day and age that will step down if he will feel that he cannot help the club move forward....

CostasY said...

Another dark night of absolute humiliation and embarrassement
by Kenny Dalglish and his squad, the squad he has personally chosen and set up
for the current season. Kenny Dalglish and his squad tarnish the heritage that
Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley left for this historic club. Kenny Dalglish and
his squad are committing the biggest crime in this club's history by molesting
on this heritage. Everybody is feeling fed up by listening and reading all the
time different irrational statements by the side of Kenny Dalglish as he can
persuade first and above all himself that under him the team is progressing!
Everytime he leads this team to another humiliating and embarrassing defeat he needs
to realize that he places a gravestone to LFC fans' dreams and expectations in
all over the world to see their beloved team returning back to where it really
deserves to be! I personally can't explain it otherwise; Kenny Dalglish is on a
denial stage! He doesn't realize that by not seeing the raw reality, that he is
not a capable manager for the modernized football and the manager who can turn
the fortunes of this club around and as long as he behaves in a selfish manner
he causes a serious damage! Back in 1991 he stepped down as LFC manager in a
period which that was unnecessary and now that it is imperative to do so, why
doesn't him?

gabweb said...

If you don't want people to be allowed to state an opinion, then go live in Burma or North Korea.

CostasY said...

Another dark night of absolute humiliation and embarrassement
by Kenny Dalglish and his squad, the squad he has personally chosen and set up
for the current season. Kenny Dalglish and his squad tarnish the heritage that
Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley left for this historic club. Kenny Dalglish and
his squad are committing the biggest crime in this club's history by molesting
on this heritage. Everybody is feeling fed up by listening and reading all the
time different irrational statements by the side of Kenny Dalglish as he can
persuade first and above all himself that under him the team is progressing!
Everytime he leads this team to another humiliating and embarrassing defeat he needs
to realize that he places a gravestone to LFC fans' dreams and expectations in
all over the world to see their beloved team returning back to where it really
deserves to be! I personally can't explain it otherwise; Kenny Dalglish is on a
denial stage! He doesn't realize that by not seeing the raw reality, that he is
not a capable manager for the modernized football and the manager who can turn
the fortunes of this club around and as long as he behaves in a selfish manner
he causes a serious damage! Back in 1991 he stepped down as LFC manager in a
period which that was unnecessary and now that it is imperative to do so, why
doesn't him?

CostasY said...

Totally agree!

gabweb said...

How have Arsenal spent more? If you are going to use a principle to judge Dalglish's spending, don't use a different calculation to judge Wenger's. Wenger sold over 70 million worth of talent last season, not to mention Bendtner going out on loan. How much did he spend? Don't recall him spending the 102 million needed to outspend us.

Lion Heart said...

Alan Pardew's Newcastle are still competing for 4th without spending much and loosing all their key players but Kenny couldn't do it even after spending 100 millions and Newcastle were worse off than Liverpool were last season. Newcastle will probably finish ahead of Liverpool too.

OriginalChan said...

or go on RAWK forum

gabweb said...

I'm starting to think this as well. I think it would be just too much for Liverpool to sack Kenny, with what he has done for the families of the supporters in the past. And rightly so. I actually wonder if the club really has the best people on board to make a decision and, strangely, almost think that Kenny is better placed to pick a successor than they are and would make a great Chairman. But, whatever he does, I hope Kenny will resign, rather than be fired.

youlottalkcock said...

Same old story. The breed of glory hunters barking. Plus the flicker minded admin where opinion will only suits him when winning.

gabweb said...

Yeah, welcome to being 3 points ahead of Swansea and still having to go there, and Newcastle. Magic wand is not required to expect better.

Paris said...

Can't hide your anti-Rafa bias can you?  You refer to player demotivation after Rafa's final year.  It was the club's year - not Rafa's.  And all the pressures and difficulties you use as excuses for Hodgson were present in even more pressing form during that final year.

Bekim said...

The problem we have Jamie is lots of fans r into this legend status that everybody is ignoring facts put in front of their face. LEGEND he is we all know and he will ALWAYS b but if the team is not doing well in the league whitch it isn't than what do u do. Keep him there for ever. I couldn't care less if Liverpool gets back to compete for the league and CHL with the mngr who never played for Liverpool.

VormHat said...

There has clearly been progress, but as pointed out, considering the advantages Dalglish has had, there has been nowhere near enough. The issue is not whether there has been progress, but whether it has been sufficient. It patently has not.
No matter what way you spin it though, Roy Hodgson was a terrible appointment for Liverpool. A good journalist (!) whos name I can never remember (it is something like Dion something, I've looked it up loads of times but I just can't seem to remember it- I think he writes for the Independent) pointed out that Liverpool didn't change their principles when they booed Hodgson and sacked him, they changed when they appointed Hodgson to cater for middle England and Fleet Street. There was nothing about the man that said Liverpool manager whatsoever.
I think you are absolutely right about Dalglish not delivering what he should (that said, 8th place is poor but with Europa League and two trophies, it wouldn't be what we wanted but you'd have to call that a success of sorts- whether he can deliver this, we'll see.).

The problems of Dalglish's regime thus far are worthy of criticism on their own terms without bringing in this pointless stuff about Hodgson. He was terrible. You make out people actually were actually burning effigies of Hodgson. The 'Dalglish' chants and booing of Hodgson were embarassing but nowhere near as malicious as you sem to think. I was a season ticket holder that season and people weren't happy but most people weren't shouting abuse at the man. I think your view has been skewed by the way people act on the internet where they're cloaked in insidious anonymity and act reprehenisbly. I've seen plenty of Dalglish abuse online (in these comment sections as well, which you've probably seen).

Good article though. Excellent stats and research as we've come to expect from you.

James Cooper said...

I'd like to make a point about this "style of football" people are harping on about. Wigan Athletic play attractive football so that makes them winners does it? Crawley Town play attractive football so they will be champions league contenders provided they stick to their method will they? Yes it's irritating to see Liverpool slagged off all the time. But it's the gutter press that do it without stats. This lad every time he makes a point has very detailed stats to back his argument. Winning football matches isn't just about playing pretty football. Sometimes you have to win ugly, play direct and hope for abit of luck.Remember Rangers run to the Uefa Cup final a few years ago, grinding out results. What about Fulham? A few 1-0's and shut up shop and they reach the final. If this was Roy Hodgson in charge, would all you lot be sticking up for him? You massacred him last year. I'm surprised he hasn't filed for unfair dismissal and pointed to Kenny Dalglish's tenure as evidence. I respect Dalglish as one of Liverpool's own, but stats don't lie, it's not working under him, cup runs are papering over the cracks.

Red4life said...

Holy crapers, what the hell is going on with you lot?

One thing I will agree upon with Jaimie is that Hodgson was the whiping boy last season. There is no difference about our EPL season this time round compared to last season so all of those who were calling for Hodgsons head last season should be utterly ashamed of themselves who are now calling for Kenny to be axed.

I think that is what Jaimie is trying to get at, isn't it Jaimie?

If we had given Hodgson more time then maybe, just maybe he would have tried his best to get somewhere. Now Kenny has taken reign and like parrot fasion those who were calling for Hodgson to be ousted are now diong the same to Kenny.

One thing is for sure, our style of play is far better, but we cannot score goals. We create chance after chance and fail in the end product.

People need to think for themselves. Rafa-Hicks-Gilett are the reasons why we have found ourselves falling this far behind and we are going to need time to get back to where we want to be. Screw Rafa, screw Hicks and screw Gilett. End of the story.

We are in a transition and for us to get back to the top will not take 1 season. Time to face the facts, we have alot of catching up to do and if anyone thought that we were going to set the world alight this season need to find a new club.

Why does anyone on here choose to support the greatest club in the world? The way you lot are carrying on is disgraceful.

Red4life said...

Now my post is up for moderation again Jaimie? Why should I even bother visiting this site when I have to ask for my posts to be made public? 

bb said...

Same old **** every other story... "We're worse under Dalglish" blah blah blah

Any chance of some new topics rather than the same old re-hashing?

scallyryan said...

Bullshit and nonsense statistics designed to suit and please your argument and attempt to destabalise KK and his reign, why not include his stats from back end of last season after we would have ended up 2nd had he been installed at start of season with his win ratio.

KK has had to spend so much money due to the shite squad he inherited from Benitez and finally hodgson.

as for the trot of outside influences of europe and board discontent, totally irrelevant and crap.

if any person believes we are in a worse position than under hodgson is a complete arm chair fan who ain't got a bloody clue about football(IMO)

As for Torres being unhappy, Dalglish got him scoring again!!!!!!

scallyryan said...

37m NET spend says it all!!!!!!Not the over 100m branded around!!!!! carroll effectively cost us nothing!!! fair comment he is producing nothing!!!

under dalglish we have created so many chances and have missed shit loads, under hodgson we hardly ever had shots at goal and still had a worse conversion rate!!

can't believe I am debating this, we were W*** under Hodgson. END OF STORY.

OriginalChan said...

Carroll, sadly, cost us £35m and is in the top 20 list of highest transfer fees.....worldwide. No amount of spinning will hide that blatant fee. Unless one is a trillionaire, £35m isn't nothing. Pity we couldn't hold out for Falcao or Cavani.

Mali341 said...

Agree with you Jamie ...if hodgson had the same funds available we might have been in a much better position

scallyryan said...

Nothing used in the fact that we made such a huge profit on torres!!!
if KD had banked that money like Mike Ashley did with Newcastle all such fans would be moaning we did not reinvest the Torres Money as they did when we rightly did not buy anyone for over inflated prices in January this year, Maybe they learnt their lesson with the mistake of signing carroll in so much of a rush and it then back fired!!!
Easy touting better possibilities out there, we had around 12 hours to sign a player so anyone abroad was out of the question as we asked about LLorente but unable to complete within timescale we had.

Should have sat on the cash and used in the summer and threw 40m at Napoli for cavani!!!!!!!
I do not blame KD /DC for gambling when they knew Torres wanted out, style of play doesnt work with carroll, simple as that.

OriginalChan said...

We should have waited till the summer, instead of buying Carroll for £35m, oh sorry I mean 'nothing'. Its not as if we used Carroll loads in the second half of last season.

scallyryan said...

Or make the hard decision and take the club a step backwards, carling Cup as inferior to european cup as it is is still a Major trophy and would be laughed upon to sack a manager after leading US fans to Wembley for 1st time in 16years!!!!
The 1st one is always the hardest to win!!!!! league progression will happen.
Who do you propose we bring in Chan to move forward??? Only thing lacking is conversion rate, if one of our best ever strikers can't sort this who the hell can????????? TIME is the ANSWER and I AM lOOKING FORWARD TO ANOTHER TRIP TO WEMBLEY, BEATS LOSING TO NORTHAMPTON AT ANFIELD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

scallyryan said...

As for keeping his job, at 50yrs old, does he actually need all this unneccesary shite branded by minority(Mostly here I might add)Proper fans on the terraces remain behind him I might add!!!!!!

he came in to help in any way he could as we were in such a mess and whatever people think of him must accept and be thankful, it;s not his fault he got us playing so well the back end of last season earning himself a 3 yr contract. Key word being EARNING, nothing handed to him on a plate due to his LEGeNDARY STATUS, he earned that contract for the way he progressed a shite squad last season so yes he deserved some cash to spend and put his own stamp on the team,!!!!!!!!!!!!

scallyryan said...

60 years old, my error

FdotM said...

Next season KD's excuse for doing poorly in the league is bcause we are involved in the Europa League!

FdotM said...

KD today:
"Whatever we set out to achieve at the start of the season has not changed," said Dalglish. "What we said was we would try our best to win every game and we will continue to do that.
"We will keep playing every game and try to get as much as we possibly can. We have to keep going and try to please as many people as we can who support Liverpool.
No, our expectations was 4th place minimum! Every teams target is to "try and win every game"
This is annoying!

scallyryan said...

Kenny will walk away should he feel not wanted and not succeeding , maybe next year we may be better placed to judge but the crap spouted here no way warranted at this stage!!!

scallyryan said...

He was injured so possibly a disaster waiting to happen as with Aquilani

scallyryan said...

Ha ha, based on his signings of Poulson for 4.5m, konchesky 5m(Yes 5m)
KD gets slated for inflated prices that signing may be worse ever in LFC history!!!!
Never signed a striker which left us with Ngog as Torres was injured

Mali341 said...

And Carroll at a bargain of 35million
Henderson bargain at 20 million
downing bargain at 20 million

Apart from suarez which strikers have we got cos he don't play bellers

OriginalChan said...

Aquilani had a long history of breaking down injured at Roma. Weird signing from the off. Even missed games for Milan this season because of injury (2 months I think), though should get enough games by the end of the season for Milan to exercise the transfer fee clause.

OriginalChan said...

I don't know, Carroll for £35m is pretty pretty bad and worse than Konchesky's inflated fee. Half a season as a first XI player in PL prior to the move, bloody hell. Sends a shiver whenever I hear Carroll cost that much. :(

ahmad said...

Dalglish has got the team playing very fast 5-a-side. Watching the game against QPR, I'm pretty sure the chances dried up after ~26 minutes despite the two goals later in the game.

So it should be interesting to see how dalglish's warriors handle the remaining games

ahmad said...

I would like to see dalglish  step down and replaced by rafa. If that fails to transpire then I'd like to see rafa down in london (possibly at chelsea) with dalglish given lots of years to 'get it right'...after all he can't the liverpool relegated can he? Well I hope not anyway...

Mali341 said...

IIf this is progress ...what will our slump be like?

Banoog said...

Despite Kenny's legendary status, I personally wished Lfc had gone for another manager, for example, Rijkaard, who would have brought attractive, attacking football and a certain class of player to the club. Nevertheless, KD was initially charged with steadying the ship. This he has certainly done, which is progress in itself. Let's not forget that under Hodgson, Lfc enjoyed a spell in the relegation zone, played unattractive, negative football, and fans were almost unanimously united in their desire to rid the club of him - difficult circumstances notwithstanding.

Whilst the majority feel stats and results are everything, these are not the only criteria by which 'progress' is measured, maybe they are the only criteria by which 'success' is measured. I'm not going to mention 'off-the-field' progress because that's not what people are talking about here. On the field, Lfc have been playing much more attractive football this term, they have dominated most of the teams they have played and they have acquired silverware, how is this not progress? 

The problem many have essentially centres around transfer dealings. It is clear that some poor decisions have been made, compounded by the fact that a forward and/or attacking midfielder was not brought in in January. This is the real reason Lfc won't be playing Champions' League football next season, and KD has to take ultimate responsibility for that. 

Failure to achieve a top 4 placing renders this season's campaign an unsuccessful one, in light of the fact that this was the owner's aim at the season outset. Nevertheless, we should not confuse success with progress, as they are not one and the same.

Alex_Star said...

 It looks like you have lifted entire paragraphs from previous articles and pasted them here. How about some more original content in future articles?

Pankaj Negi68 said...

modern football is defined by " impatience" , fans want instant results. After every game that we lose or draw.. i am so furious. I want Kenny out and some of these ( u know the list) players out. But in the next few days i cool down. I realize that we need to have some stability in our club after what has happened in the last few years. Yes, our club has a great history, but what is happening now, is also a history in making. It is great to have high expectations but there should also be sense of realism. Just because Kenny spent 100 million in transfers, does not mean we will get immediate success. LOOK AT MAN CITY plz and there turnaround time. We have a team with great potential ( yes i do believe it 100 %).
             Yes, i know some of the fans have waited a long time for our club to be back on top and have heard " work-in progress" many times, but please be a little more patient. Just because you wish something to happen does not make it reality.
Conclusion : we need more time ( with or without Kenny).

Jared Riley said...

When people say we are building for the future they fail to realize that you actually have to get players with potential and ability. Daglish has clearly missed the plot.

My personal ratings of the players he bought. Based on performance, work ethic, ability and potential:

Downing: 4/10
Adam: Let's not go there
Henderson: 3-4/10
Carroll: 4-5/10
Coates: Hasn't had a long enough run to judge
Enrique: 6/10
Suarez: 7.5/10

Game in and game out Kenny plays these average footballers. It amazes me that a manager can be so stubborn.

If it isn't working, why not change?

We were a better team last season from Jan onwards.

I think it is time KK moved on and that we rid the club of deadwood.


Jared Riley said...

Keep dreaming

Jared Riley said...

What did he invest in? League 2 players?

ahmad said...

If kenny remains manager, I would expect him to see the season through even if he leads the team to relegation. It woudn't be fair on any new manager to pick up the pieces mid-season

thered_beard said...

you're absolutely right, Kenny should be told by the board to resign, all i can see if he stay beyond this season is more of a slump, and other teams getting so far ahead that we will be ecstatic if we win with villa, not even mentioning taking them over in the league

Simon said...

The final job of the previous owners was to get rid of an increasingly vocal Benitez, a manager worshipped by match going fans, to save new owners from inheriting such a problem situation

They picked Hodgson because he was a lame duck. Gentile and respectful and easy to push out if new owners, whoever they were to be, wanted

He was never a serious option for Liverpool

Simon said...

The owners' actions in the summer will reflect their feelings

Rome wasn't built in a day

Do you seriously think that their business plan lives and dies by £40 million CL revenues next season

I expect they will back Kenny with more cash, we will sign couple of wingers and a menacing forward

Simon said...

Demba Ba has a serious complaint with his right knee

That's why no big teams took a chance on him

Remember Olisadebe a few years back, same deal

Simon said...

One year? Get a grip

Simon said...

One name puts your argument into severe doubt - Paul Konchesky

Simon said...

Suarez average?

By that reckoning Messi is only barely good

OriginalChan said...

Yet we got Bellamy, who supposedly has knee problems.

Anyhoo, Demba Ba cost Newcastle nothing in terms of transfer fee, so very little risk/chance involved there. 

OriginalChan said...

We have already bought two forwards in Carroll and Suarez for £50-60 bloody million. Me thinks we have made our bed with the current strikers until end of next season, unless the new striker costs under £10m. Couple of wingers eh, well that would be great but already £20m in one in Downing (and for whatever reason, KK rates him very very very highly), so me thinks it will be just the one in the summer. But who knows. Although, nne of KK's excuses this season is that there are a lot of changes in the squad that have happened this season and its unfair to expect results straightaway, bla bla bla. So I doubt there will be many signings this summer, unless the excuse given was just waffle to lower ambition and to excuse the mediocre nature of this league season.

OriginalChan said...

Yep, he was dud but not as calamitous as spending £35m on Carroll.

Michael said...

So your own figures demonstrate that the statement that Hodgson performed better than KD is wrong. Good work!

Madness said...

the number of times people comment on articles without actually reading them is hilarious.

Madness said...

who is arguing for a title winning team? where is that written in the article?

Madness said...

you forget CL revenues are a return on investment. an owner, especially one that is not a football fan but someone who has purchased the club on the cheap as a business venture wants a return on investment - FSG want this club in the CL as without that there is no point in owning LFC period.

I am guessing they didnt teach you much at Harvard Business School, but back to the football and the article - so fans are happy to give Kenny more time and money but not Hodgson? hmmm Jaimie's point is stronger than ever.

Madness said...

The repetition of the argument that Dalglish is in no way improving on what level Hodgson was performing at in the league doesnt register with certain sections of the fanbase so not surprised pointing out the obvious occurs on the site, Jaimie provides black and white analysis of FACTS and all poster's due is ignore it.

Madness said...

ha! he spent 31mm in the market which only gets you 1 or 2 decent players???????????????????

Last time I checked his purchases did not tally up to 31mm - unless you are talking net spend which defeats your argument.

You are right that we havent replaced like for like - alonso , masch, torres have played in world cup finals, won international trophies, play amongst the best teams in europe and have been wanted by the very best teams around. Same cannot be said for the players Dalglish has brought in - or probably the most important point that gets missed by everyone is DALGLISH himself - LFC should strive for the best no? So every summer are we afraid that KD is going to get poached by another club or international team ? is there another club out there that would want him? answer is no so why are we lowering our standards.

Madness said...

"liverpool seem to have spent millions just to stay in the same place as they were last year"

Perfectly put.

Madness said...

when there is nostalgia and sentiment attached to the man in charge then leniency is not surprising. KD as manager is accepting mediocrity when you hire someone for a project that has not done anything in football for 15 years.

Madness said...

no one is arguing that he make us champions - just improve our league position is the minimal ... and 4th should have been achieved this year with all the advantages he had.

and if it is true that he is one of the few that would step down... then the summer awaits.

Madness said...

the only reason we have not had a trip to wembely in 16 years is because they were still building it so we had to play in cardiff - (not sure why I had to point this out to you????)

and when will this league progression happen and why was Hodgson not given the same time despite Dalglish not being any better???????????

Mali341 said...

Well put...Roy was pathetic but even he would have done better if 117million had come his way

Madness said...

agreed - sentiment and nostalgia will cost the club

Madness said...

quick fix - read the guideline on posting and adhere to it.

Madness said...

suggestions on new topics? maybe to deflect the reality of the situation articles regarding our new kit design next year would suit you better?

Madness said...

here is the truth of the situation.

Hodgson was outed but was offered a job by WBA.

If Kenny steps down or is sacked I am certain no premier league teams will coming knocking on his door.

Madness said...

can i make you feel unintenionally worse?

Robben, Snjeider, and van der vaart cost their current clubs a total of £40mm pounds

when I think of what could have been possible with 100mm and what actually happend I cry.

Carrol possibly the worst transfer ever ? I always felt the Ibrahimovich fee (and exchange for Etoho) at 69mm Euros was the worst deal ever - but Zlatan has won a league title every year since 2003 for the clubs he has played in!!!! 4 clubs 8 league titles so he is clearly contributing something so the fee barca paid could kind of be explained... now with Carrol.... lets face it Newcastle made us look like muppets

Madness said...

what is his goal return again? and Messi's goal return?

j75j said...

You mention VDV and Snjeider we were offered these 2 players for Alonso. We could have took them both for Alonso but Rafa brought Aquilani £17 million and spent another £17 million on Johnson.
Aquilani is going to be sold for £6 million now.
Lot of Rafa's signings were good but most probably is most important one after Alonso he got wrong with buying an injured player and left the team asking questions, where as Kenny's signings have lefty the fans asking questions!
Is it no wonder VDV snubbed us second time round when Hodgson tried to buy him?
I don't believe Carroll is as bad as fans think is transfer fee is though crazy money! Can't see Newcastle spending their time developing a player who hasn't got it, the thing about Carroll at Newcastle he started of as a SMALL goal scoring left midfielder then suddenly shot up in height so they moved him up front. He needs to be playing and Kuyt moved back to the right.

j75j said...

It has happened to me with posts and others! I wouldn't worry about it more likely Disqus then Jaimie. 

j75j said...

Are Swansea rubbish? Haven't they beaten Arsenal Man City and drew with Spurs and Chelsea?Kept 12 clean sheets. Swansea deserve to be where they are mainly because of Championship players! Who have a better passing accuracy then most of the established Premier League teams!

j75j said...

Over £50 million Wenger(Transfer League website) spent  Wenger's problem is he hasn't spent over the last 7 years and selling his best players like us, leaving them scrambling for third and fourth they have only turned it round in the last few weeks after a season struggling.

j75j said...

So has Ba! He failed his Stoke medical  because they said his knee is a ticking time bomb! Could be why he has these strange sell on fees in his contract make as much money before his knee does go.

j75j said...

You can't guarantee CL revenue unless you are Leeds!! So any investment they have put in would be paid with or recouped from the present business plan hence the net spending was only £40 million.The club still made over £200 million in revenue without CL football last season. £20 million from Standard Charter and now Warrior Sports sponsor deals plus the other 5 or 6 partner deals which have been signed in the last year with 3K Battery,Minolta,Black and Decker and Carlsberg still, we have 15 partners but lag behind Man U who have 30 world wide.

Jaimie K said...

Hey Red - You post isn't up for moderation, it just got held by the word filter. There are certain phrases/word/combinations that get caught in the filter to stop spammers and trolls, and some of the combinations are pretty inoccuous. Sorry about that; you're on the whitelist for the site your posts are not subject to moderation anyway.

Mali341 said...

You are right Carroll isn't as bad as people think. He's fcking worse .

j75j said...

He needs to be playing, most consecutive games he has played this season is 3 in the league hardly a run of games to get him really match fit and playing. Has only started 1 league game since mid Feb.
How can a player justify his fee if he never plays?

j75j said...

8 goals before 25 mins
20 goals 25-60 mins
14 goals 60-90+ mins
Looking at those stats I would say we are more likely to score after 26 mins. We must get better has the game goes on so they must be playing for 90 mins, except for QPR!

Chan said...

I don't dispute KD's caretaking role last season that earned him a full time contract. However, as for him putting his stamp on the team, well, it turned out to be crap. He shipped out the deadwood and purchased more deadwood! 

Chan said...

VDV didn't snub Hodgson. VDV was offered to LFC but Hodgson rejected it as he claimed the club already has a similar player in Gerrard. 

j75j said...

Yeah  yeah. If Hodgson did snub him, doesn't it just add to the list why Hodgson never made it at Anfield?

Madness said...

5 defeats in the last 6 prem games mate... you cant defend it after the money that was spent.

Being pro Dalglish and anti rafa will not get you anywhere since it is so blatantly obvious how far apart they are in terms of managerial talent.

Madness said...

hodgson got a job after he was sacked. something tells me that kenny wont get a job, why would anyone hire him?

j75j said...

Bit of a pointless question seeing this is the only job in football he would have wanted.

Phaaz Buucke said...

The season starts now!

Live or Fool said...

Liverpool is no club, no more.

The last Kop was when they have Redknapp, Macca, Fowler with Roy Evans in the helm. Even though they didn't win silverware, but they played much better & attractive game than Benitez UCL champion team or Houllier UEFA champion team.

Fool should improve the youth academy, just like before.
And, get some bloody Dutch or Spanish to manage them.

OriginalChan said...

I don't think he has the ability to justify such a massive fee, the poor lad.

OriginalChan said...

They developed Shola Ameobi too and still have him. His 'got it'....in terms of being a average/mediocre striker. Carroll has 'got' that too, certainly hasn't 'got' £35m worth of ability

OriginalChan said...

Carroll had one bloody half a season of being a first XI regular in PL prior to joining us, yet the powers to be deemed it fit to splash out £35m on a player who isn't even near Crouchie in terms of technique, for a big man.

OriginalChan said...

I know Ba has/had knee problems, never denied it. My point was that the fella above tries to justify not going for Ba because he has/had knee problems yet we signed Bellamy. 

gabweb said...

Yes, but Andy took net spend for us and managed to forget that Wenger sold Fabregas, Eboue, Clichy and Nasri, and loaned out Bendtner. We bought Henderson, Downing, Coates and Adam, which is still more than 50 million.

gabweb said...

Sure, and we should expect to be better than that because we are Liverpool and, more importantly, we spent a lot more than them and had better players in the first place.

Damo71 said...

From 'Tomkins Times': 'Liverpool's current dreadful run of five defeats in six league games coincides with the winning of a trophy and reaching anotber semi-final, and so, irrespecrive of what Kenny did 25 years ago, he has already put somecredit in his bank. That won't last forever, and of course there are some valid concerns, but it's getting to the point where any kind of failure is met with calls for sacking. This is not Chelsea.' Petspective? Anyone?

ROSSO67 said...

Even though Man City have spent massive amounts of money it has taken them, years to climb to where they are.
I like every other fan is disappointed in some of the clubs buys but maybe patience is the key and in a season things can turn around.
The likes of Carroll and Downing can do miles better and like many others  i am looking forward to next season.
The need for a good finisher in front of goal and someone to play on the right wing maybe all that is needed.

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