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3/12/2012 09:30:00 am

LFC legend: Kenny's £57m 'achilles heal' to blame for Sunderland defeat...

It's been a miserable 2012 for Liverpool FC in the Barclay's premier league: five defeats in 8 games; one solitary win, and a meagre five points out of a possible 24, which now means 4th place is all but gone. After spending so much money, it's a disaster for the club, and Liverpool legend Alan Hansen is mystified as to why the recent Carling Cup victory hasn't spurred Liverpool on to greater heights.

Analysing the Sunderland defeat on Match of the Day, Hansen praised the 'unbelievable' job done by Martin O'Neill, but bemoaned his old club's perennial problem:

"It was a poor game. We were expecting Liverpool to kick on after the Carling Cup and vie for fourth slot in the table but it hasn't happened.

"Unfortunately for them, their achilles heal is tha they can't put it in the back of the net. They didn't play well today, but last week it could've been 5-0 at half time


To be honest, that's a very tame assessment of Liverpool's defeat, but what can you expect from a confirmed Kenny Dalglish apologist? I'm not sure what Last week's game against Arsenal has to do with anything: Liverpool lost, and as Dalglish is always telling everyone, the previous game's result has no bearing on the next game.

Hansen excoriates most other teams for poor performances - just look at his scathing, OTT criticism of Chelsea this season! - but he holds his tongue when it comes to Liverpool, which is understandable I guess given his ties to the club.

Anyone who actually believed that a victory (on penalties) against inferior opposition in a pointless competition would somehow spur Liverpool on to greater heights, was/is living in fantasy land.

Hansen is right about Liverpool's 'Achilles heal' though - it's such a cliche now that there's no point even discussing it, suffice to say that with conversion rates of 7.7% and 6.5% respectively, the club's £57m 'strikeforce' of Luis Suarez and Andy Carroll is amongst the worst in the Premier League.

Jaimie Kanwar




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127 Comments :

Tornike Khomeriki said...

To 'kick on' after a victory, you need to have players and manager capable of 'kicking on'. There will be no 'kicking on' and 'turning points' - no matter how much some of the fans wish - until that is sorted out.

Jasdelhi 2008 said...

we must kick out kenny from Liverpool alongwith his garbage that he purchased. Earlier player were better than these. Last time with them we were in top six this time with these garbage we will definately finish below top 8. Dilglish have no managerial skill and game planning like benetez. I suspect roy hudgson will catch liverpool in next few game and will have last laugh on dilglish. Definately hudgson was a better manager than dilglish the amount of money dilglish wasted with whom benetez have the ability to make us Champion legue top four.

JustSaying said...

I think we should fired Commoli for those player he purchased. He is the one who responsible for those player not KK. Kenny is responsible to deploy those player , plan tactic and hold the club and player together.

Jevon Johnson said...

usless pathetic negative bull

scallyryan said...

Hansen is kopping it now because unlike all the muppet ex pros like Nicol are so quick to criticise. Hansen made the comments about kicking on with respect to how Arsenal fell away last season after losing in a final. You can play down the significance of a league Cup win all you like but in ten years time that will be on our honours board and in the trophy cabinet. Man City have spent over 300m assembling a squad and look like winning nothing, LFC are not ready for Champions league yet, end of story.

Mali341 said...

eenough respect to king kenny that in less than a season in charge...having bought the likes of Adam..Carroll.....downing and Henderson...he has delivered us c cup....and if he buys another 4 players of this calibre we will definetly win the league.....

Jon said...

City won the FA cup last season if I remember correctly.

Pastor of Muppets said...

Our players aren't sniffers. Our forwards work too hard, try too hard and can't keep their cool. It's not our player calibre. They just aren't working smart.

On a side note, we've hit the woodwork 25 times with the ball going in only once - that's 24 denials via the woodwork. I don't think even Pirlo could do that!

Septimus_red said...

Nice try to save Kenny but all Player Purchases Dalglish has final say on them. On the LCF site if you look.
No amount of spinning will save Kenny he's about to get exposed for a poor manager

Septimus_red said...

Again another attempt to spin Kenny ...he's been the Manager at Liverpool FC for over 1 year already.

Titi_camara said...

how many times are people going to blame commoli?
does commoli pick the team and tactics?

Titi_camara said...

just seen kenny on sky with his usual dross-
'we'll add up the points at end of the season and see where we are'
jesus christ,we've lost 3 on the trot and he's still spinning the usual nonsense.
am surprised he didn't tell us that henderson is far better thyan he thought he would be.

Barry Yates said...

Ever heard of Robin Van Persie ?? 
On a side note - it is a pathetic excuse.

Titi_camara said...

we should go on crossbar challenge on soccer am and kenny can tell us that it's a step forward.

Titi_camara said...

you're deluded.
another 4 players of that calibre and we're outside of the top ten.

Renny Abraham said...

I don't think all the blame can fall on Kenny. The players need to take the blame for the performance. The manager can only do so much. Rather than the manager, I'd look at the players and weed out the ones that cannot make the cut.

Titi_camara said...

the ones that should be weeded out are daglish's summer signings but he won't dump them.

Titi_camara said...

hitting the woodwork 25 times is more than bad luck-it's called bad finishing.

Mad said...

what you smocking??? if he brings in players like henderson ,adamdoening and carroll then we can say goo bye prem and hello to the power league

Septimus_red said...

Jamie,

We need to start looking at the inevitable replacements for Kenny Dalglish at the end of the season.
I would love to see you start the debate about it because as is becoming clear we can't continue with him at the helm.
The results,purchases,style of play,philosophy and reputation of Liverpool FC are not good at the moment.

I unlike many other do not want Kenny replaced immediately, rather we should give the man until the end of the season and John Henry Tom Werner Ian Ayre should ask Kenny to move upstairs in some capacity.

In the meantime I have no doubt that they are already preparing some candidates to replace KD.
Personally I like Jurgen Klopp this man has worked miracles and is someone I think we should be looking at.
Alternatively I like Joachim Löw the German National team Manager.
He has already stated that after the Euro's he's stepping down we should get in there now as I think my sneaky bet is that Germany will win the Euro's.

We need a fresh YOUNG dynamic Manager who has new ideas and one who will take no prisoners in terms of players.
I don't think a German Manager has ever managed in the Premier League.

I think the German mentality, style of play would transfer well to Liverpool,based on TECHNICAL players.

We all want the best for Liverpool FC we may disagree on how to get there.
I think that once the Manager in this case Kenny Dalglish has lost the supporters (notice how quiet it was against Sunderland) he's in serious trouble and will find it impossible to get them back on side.

If we the fans can see the tactical ineptitude poor substitutions, insistence on playing player out of form.
WHAT DO YOU THINK THE PLAYERS THINK ? Maxi,Shelvey,?

I'm actually not bothered if we win lose or draw against Everton,I'm more interested in what happens at the end of the season.
FORGET FA CUPS, 4th SPOT it was NEVER going to happen and many of you knew that in your HEARTS.
You hoped it would happen rather than believed it would.

Kenny had the trust of FSG and Fans but has lost it.

Mali341 said...

We've scored 5 more goals than van persie ....he ain't all that

we've scored 30goals in the premier league this season...van persie has only 25

Titi_camara said...

i think low would be a brilliant appointment,he brought through alot of young players for germany including otzil.his side play great football and are very difficult to beat.
 

Mali341 said...

Kicking dalglish out would be a start....followed by Adam...Henderson...downing and Carroll and to complete things clarke swell

Ochure Chujor said...

Dont talk rubbish about not being ready for top 4! We are LIVERPOOL, Not Everton!

Titi_camara said...

 i hope you're being sarcastic.

Mali341 said...

You just have to believe in kk......am just waiting for the violent face rubbing to start

tallpaulp said...

please learn to spell names right, just makes you look stupid and stops people reading the post you spent time writing.

gabweb said...

Yes, somehow i think he is!

OriginalChan said...

Maybe the domestic cup competitions are our level now, hence we can't 'kick on' or go beyond that level. I guess it may well be 'just', considering the state of our squad and the silly over-hyping of our so-called new hero Suarez who is nearly as bad as Carroll in front of goal.

gabweb said...

Well, one progression, we have European football next season. That will give us more games to play and, hopefully, we will give squad players a chance to play a bit more and youngsters a chance to develop as much as possible, in the way that Tottenham tried to do this season.

After that, everything else has been depressing and nothing that Dalglish has done has convinced me that he has the ability to deal with a squad of modern footballers, either in training or in keeping them under control. The shortlist should be getting drawn up now. The youngsters should be getting in the squad after the Everton game. Because i am sure that nearly every signing performed better in their previous clubs, I would hold fire on selling any of them until Dalglish is removed and a new manager with a different style is brought in. Dalglish and most of his signings look out of their depth, to me, but maybe the players won't look as outclassed when a manager who knows how to deal with them comes in. It should be FA Cup win or out as far as the manager is concerned.

Now Man Utd are powering away in the league, by the time they go to City they will be more than 3 points ahead, this season is becoming totally depressing.  

OriginalChan said...

Lack of composure in front of goal is part of how good or bad a striker is at the top level. Yes, clearly to do with 'player calibre'.

Only so many times you can put it down to bad luck. It is simply rubbish finishing. 

OriginalChan said...

Maybe this is our standard now. We may just have to accept in the long run that it is top 6 we should aim for, not not top 4

Zorro said...

KDwas the man to stop the rot when FSG took over but he was never first choice to be manager.  His appointment provided a rallying point for the club and a 'let's see' trial for the owners new to 'soccer' (they also misguidedly put their faith in Comolli).  Suarez was brought in prior to Torres departing and now is much more likely to move on than to stay. He could rightly feel let down by LFC having come to partner Torres and then finding Carrol alongside instead; whatever the rights and wrongs of the Evra affair LFC elected to 'support' him with a farcical t-shirt campaign more worthy of your local tech college's Students' Union than a multi million pund operation protecting one of its prized assets and only issuing prepared apologies once the ripples reached the company's sponsors.  Alongside this I could well imagine Reina has reached the end of his tether after continued promises of 'jam tomorrow'.

So where does that leave FSG? If they haven't been assessing the options to replace KD, they wouldn't have been doing their jobs.  They will have learned quickly about the realities of EPL soccer and probably realised that it is a more expensive process than originally imagined.  If it is too expensive for the returns, they will want to sell on the club for a profit; if not they will have to spend big again.  Maybe the lack of spend. in January was a sign of closing the till prior to finding new owners or maybe it was just an unwillingness to let KD and DC fritter more money away.

Hopefully it was the latter and they are now aware that to attract the best players they have to make LFC attractive to possible suitors.  There aren't (won't be) top players so a first step would be to take on a top class manager, someone who in himself would attract the players.

Then they need to let the new guy clear out the under achievers (new and old) and really start a rebuilding programme.

Ldhawan said...

This goes to show what a bunch of hypocritical jackasses these former liverpool players are. They jump on Rafa for everything, yet Kenny is doing a piss poor job with a crap load of money spent and they are still kissing his ass and blaming the players. People need to be strong and admit that if Kenny is not up to the job then he should be replaced. Nothing wrong with that.
Like we keep on saying, "nobody is bigger than the club", not even Kenny.

RedHeart said...

What a misfortune for Liverpool. Just when they had financial power after years of wait! King Kenny came and blew more than 100 million on these rubbish players. 

With any decent manager, £100 million can buy a squad which can fight for the league in a season or two. 

I don't see that happening with this squad and I don't even see Liverpool again getting a big money to spend in near future! Kenny stays or goes, seems a big chance for revival is gone!

Spaniard said...

another Dalglish apologist - KK approved all purchases so he has to carry the can. he is also respnsible for tactics, which he has shown to be less than capable and dare i say incpompetent.

He has set us back years with his wastefulness and insistence on buying british. He is an AMATUER and needs to do one. I am starting to resent KK, and he should do the right thing and do what's best for the club and resign with our best wishes ... but he is not good enough. Add the debacle of the Suarez affair and his conduct is not beffiting of a liverpool manager - emabarassing really.

bye Kenny, and take Adam, henderson, Carroll and Downing with you

Spaniard said...

as long as KK is in charge then we should aim for top 10. when Everton beat us tomorrow, this will give a true reflectoon of our "progress" under Dalglish.
When was the last time we lost 4 on the trot? ... andwhen we do, i bet the players get the blame again, and not Saint bloody dalglish

Spaniard said...

couldn't have said it better myself.

hitting the woodwork means the shot was OFF TARGET, equals incompetent finishing

Spaniard said...

exactly, job done . . .

Jay said...

It's a bit simple to just say, the teams achiles heel is that they can't score enough goals. That's just looking at the effect with no interest in looking at the cause.

The team doesn't have enough flair or pace to get players into positions where they should be scoring on a consistent basis. Maintaining possession is all well and good, but opposition defences have little trouble in keeping men between the ball and the goal (aside from when Suarez pulls off one of his runs) so our 'chances' are rarely high quality ones.

Spaniard said...

"it should be FA cup win or out as far as the manager is concerned"

Forget that mate, Stoke will do us over. it's emabarassing when the players and manager, and some fans bang on about gettign to Wembley again like it is our god given right to be there. Are we forgetting that Spurs and Chelsea are still in the cup and are infinitely better teams than us??????? A few headss need to come out of the clouds and realise that we are a medicore mid table team at best with the dross we have ion our squad. We can say good bye to the top four for a good few years to come - wake up and smell the coffee, KK has ruined us

Spaniard said...

why woudl Low want to come to Anfield??? Anybody that comes in woudl need to overhaul the squad, and scrub out the mistakes of the previous transfer business to have any chance of turning the club around - I can see the likes of henderson, adam, ddowning, and Carroll just sitting ontheir fat contracts till they run out. That is what the next manager will have to contend with.

Not only that, but convincing the likes of Reina and Suarez to stay as well. We are on a downward spiral and KK is at the helm. God help LFC!!! We are set back 5 yearsd in my estimation before we can realistically challenge again

Spaniard said...

well and truly gone

redredman said...

I think you will find that Kenny still has the trust of FSG and the fans who want him replaced are in the minority. FSG will not replace him 9 months into a 3 year deal. Kenny will be manager at least until January 2013 unless he decides to leave. That said performances must improve the time for excuses is past. The team is missing something and with the Exception of Skirtel and Kelly have underperformed.  Signings made during the Dalglish era have been poor. Henderson, Downing and Carroll where full England Internationals before they signed. They have let themselves down the club down and the manager down with some woeful performances. It cant all be Dalglish's fault. He doesnt spend all week telling these players to perform badly. He is a passionate football man, a winner. The players must share the burden of failure

Septimus_red said...

I think you'll find that FSG silence speaks more volumes than you think.
Additionally I draw your attention to the fact that Dalglish stated that at the beginning of the transfer window in Jan that he had money to spend and was looking for the right players.
This was swiftly followed up the next week after no doubt being told NO MONEY FOR YOU, that he would have a quite transfer and that he didn't need any additions.

Added further by John Henry FORCING Dalglish to apologise for the comments he made.
Do you think this left a good impression with John Henry?

I have lived in America and been to Fenway Park and I can tell you that John Henry is ruthless when he needs to be.
No amount of sentiment will change his mind if he wants Dalglish gone.
I personally think that FSG already sounded out his replacement and will allow Dalglish some dignity at the end of the season.

Remember last Jan they spent and in the summer they spent and back Dalglish this time they didn't.
The writing is on the wall tick tock tick tock....

Phaaz Buucke said...

Eight Times!

red33 said...

Please let those who can bring liverpool back to it's glory day comes this summer,Sorry kenny,you're not the men but i wish you were,and bring these fantastic 4 of your's along,chop chop. We want RAFA.

The Spade said...

Clarke has done a sterling job with the defence. Who thought that Skrtel would come this good and a defence with him and Glen Johnson in could be amongst the best in the league?! The rest of em can jog on. Especially whoever the attacking coaches are...

Septimus_red said...

Spaniard, I think Low and Klopp would do it no problem.
Low was the real brains behind Klinsmann as can be seen now with the players they have in the national team.
He takes his time and has a method which works.
Klopp is basically a miracle worker no idea how he's doing what he is doing but we should get him if Low wont come.

Phaaz Buucke said...

Good to see some humour on this blog from the Liverpool fans after all the Evra-Suarez angst of recent weeks. One thing that hasn't been discussed all that much is how poor Suarez, rather than Carroll, is as a striker. Didn't Liverpool do ok (beat Man Utd and Man City) during that spell when Suarez was banned?

Septimus_red said...

I'm not Anti or Pro Rafa.....What makes those who advocating him coming back that he would want to?
I mean look at that squad it's terrible  Rafa may get a better offer elsewhere and although he may love Liverpool FC he hasn't exactly been treated well has he ?
I can see the conversation going like this 
'Rafa we'd like you back but we have no money Kenny blew on these duds so you'll have to sell before you can buy'
' Cannot shift these players no ...I mean look at this (gestures as Carroll Ballons one into the Kop on the TV behind Ian Ayre)'
'I sorry Senor I cannot do this with this (gestures to Henderson hoofs one into the Anfield Road).'

I see no reason why we should assume he'd come we in serious DOO DOO .

Matt said...

With a bit more pace in the side, and a player in the midfield with a bit of skill and vision then we would not be that far off challenging for the league. 

All the top teams have got that centre midfielder with the vision and skill to play the forwards in. Thats the big piece of the jig saw we are missing.out of the players we have bought, Adams is regressing, Downing is stagnating, Henderson will come good, but only if played in the centre of midfield, he is no good on the right and never will be.Carroll will come good if you play to his strengths, like Newcastle did.The only time we have looked good going forward and scored goals is when Maxi, Kuyte, Bellamy and Suarez are playing together. They scare teams with there movment. when they dont play together we look predictable.

Kalu said...

lmao, you're comparing one man (RVP) to our ENTIRE...that's just incase you aren't being sarcastic :-( I love Liverpool but it hurts to see a team with no commitment, losing while playing well means one thing but playing badly altogeher...that hurts

Phaaz Buucke said...

But this is the team that Dalglish put together - you're asking him to weed out the players he put in the team (unless you think its players like Gerrard, Reina, Carragher, Agger who should be weeded out).

This is make or break time for Dalglish - his managerial reputation rests on three things: 1986 Double (but wasn't this a Paisley/Fagan team with the 'bootroom' still in place running the show?); the 1988 'Culture Club' (great team, fantastic purchases in Barnes, Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton, but did Dalglish really select them or was someone else, perhaps Paisley, still involved with transfer advice?) and Blackburn winning the League in 1995 (but with spending money that was the equivalent of Chelsea or Man City today on the obvious good players of the time e.g. Shearer, Sutton and Flowers - no big insight there). It's notable that neither the 1988 Liverpool team nor the 1995 Blackburn team were 'built to last', in both cases the teams were out of the running for the league within 3 to 4 years.

So, given that the less said about the Newcastle and Celtic years the better, Dalglish needs to deliver for Liverpool this time around to prove that he is one of the great managers.

OriginalChan said...

Both coaches have made great use of the young talent that is in Germany at the moment. Low for national team and Klopp with Dortmund. Klopp isn't a 'miracle worker', though he has done a great job and they play some lovely stuff. 

The guy at Mainz is what you call a 'miracle worker', considering stature and resources of the club. Mainz equalled (or maybe better, not sure) the best ever start to a Bundesliga campaign and finished 5th. Amazing job. Impressive considering they had a small squad, loads of players in on loan, etc.

There is plenty of talent in Bundesliga at the moment. It is surprising that not many are being bought by non-German clubs. Though its not a bad thing to stay in that league these days as its a very good league now and its a ideal league, in terms of stadia, youth-focus, money, clubs are doing better in terms of holding firm against Bayern in terms selling best players to them (see Leverkusen early 2000s) etc. 

Kalu said...

I might get lynched for this but I like Henderson. Downing, Adam, and Carroll can go but I like Henderson. Of the four he is the only one that keeps getting played out of position and I think he shouldn't be starting but I see him becoming leader material. 

Blackwog said...

KK has a 3 year contract so it could be very expensive for FSG to get rid of him and Comolli and i don't even know what he is on, unless they quit now my question is how much does KK love LFC enough to do the right thing and quit if asked.
 Someone said there is no point to bring in a manager right now i beg to differ, if a new manager is brought in then the players we have will have to prove their worth to stay in the side. There is no doubt that what has happened to LFC is disgraceful, the money spent was wasted even if Hendo comes good he will never be world class as for Carroll well lets just say that if he can't score with his head than he is useless. Even though these next two Downing and Adam have not justified there fee, they both have more to offer if they play at their best. Adam can pass and hit a ball not to mention very tough, Downing is the quicker out of the four and looks more likely to be dangerous, but both have under performed so far.I personally think that FSG or someone needs to talk to AVB to see what his visions or plans were for Chelsea and see maybe his ideas are better suited for LFC, just remember he has made mistakes (which he would not repeat) for Chelsea but we all don't know what happened there and he is young so we could have him for years and years if he is good. Yes players should bare some of the blame but if they are not talented enough on the best of days or not consistent enough then the manager needs to take action even if that means putting in younger players or players that have not played in a while KK has made some serious mistakes, not acting quick enough, playing new players before those that have earned their place. Sorry KK and Comolli must go. 

Septimus_red said...

Matt please seriously think about what you've just written there.
I'm not going to attack you personally but do you really believe what you've written ?

Kalu said...

Suarez has never really been a CF. He plays behind 2 strikers in Uruguay. If we can get rid of Carroll and bring in 1 OR 2 poacher/clinical finisher and play them just ahead of him I think we'll see a much more viscous forward attack. 

Blackwog said...

And just remember NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN LFC.

Allenvanwyk said...

Achilles Heel suggests one vulnerable area in an otherwise impregnable set up....I think it's a little more than that,guys

Titi_camara said...

to suggest downing is stagnating implies that he did something in the first place.you say carroll will come good if we play to his strengths like newcastle-that alone shows the bad judgement in signing him.
our game under doesn't suit him and he can't adapt.we shouldn't have to build the side around him,for 35mil you should be paying for a proven player.

DanieRed said...

Yes Jamie lets start a stats/vote-based list of potential candidates and debate on who is replacing KD end of the season as I believe he knows that he is out of job, he has to be judged by the results like AVB, Woy and the rest

OriginalChan said...

He doesn't play behind two strikers for Uruguay. Plenty of times he has played as the lead striker with Forlan behind him and Cavani on the right. Sometimes they interchange. Sometimes Suarez plays on the left with Forlan in the middle and Cavani, again, on the right, as seen against Peru. You might be surprised but Cavani plays the most deepest out of three and Suarez, out of the three, gets to play the most as the furthest forward for Uruguay. Cavani and Forlan have very good all round games, hence why Forlan can drop deep in the middle and Cavani play out wide quite well, even for Napoli (sometimes they play Pandev through the middle with Cavani and Lavezzi either side of him).

Suarez very much is a forward that likes to play quite far forward and sometimes drifts to the left when on the counter attack. He might be great dribbling-wise but he isn't a creative link-up forward at all, at least not a good one. His best work is in and around the box as well as running at players on the counter attack (emphasis on the counter attack). Just not 'clever' enough to play a deeper role, when not counter attacking.

OriginalChan said...

So more pace and more skill. So 'in a way' replace Henderson, Downing and Adam. Three players that were supposed bring pace and/or creativity. Don't see KK admitting a embarrassing defeat over his signings by bringing in players to replace them. 

Zulu said...

Ruined us? By winning a trophy for the first time in six years. Alright most of the signings he made haven't worked but that's just bad luck not bad management. Carroll was unplayable last year, but who was to know he'd have such a dip in form? Downing was Villa's player of the year and was statistically one of the most creative players in the league, who could of imagined he'd flop so badly. Henderson had just made his England debut and everybody was raving about him, nobody could of guessed he'd play like he has. The point I'm making is at the time most Liverpool fans was pleased with the signings made but for one reason or another they haven't worked out but Kenny is a winner and if these players aren't performing he'll move them on and get better players in.

OriginalChan said...

The thing is Carroll had just half a season as a first team regular in PL. How on earth does one splash out £35m based on a half-a-season showing of a guy who is just a long-ball forward? Absolutely astonishing. Makes me feel embarrassed to see his name in the top lists of most expensive players, when that list contains the likes of Vieri, Ronaldo, C Ronaldo, Zidane, etc. Embarrassing.

OriginalChan said...

'not bad management'?

Carroll thrives on long balls (well that is based on a mere half season as a first team regular in PL), yet we play a passing game. That isn't bad luck. 

Hendo being used all over the place isn't bad luck.

Bad luck? pfft

bleps said...

Suarez has been quoted as saying he'd love to link up with Lugano at PSG. Innocent comment or is he beginning to get tired of being surrounded by underachievers? Don't forget Torres left the club for similar reasons. As someone else has already pointed out being denied 25 times by the woodwork is not bad luck. The goal drought is not down to opposition goalkeepers having a good game either and KK can dress it up anyway he chooses. It's simply down to poor finishing. We need a creative midfield and a proper strike partner for Suarez.  

OriginalChan said...

'underachievers'? Well Suarez is hardly been a 'overachiever' this season. For all his dribbling in and around the box, his composure in front of goal in PL is very suspect to say the least.

Zulu said...

Newcastle aren't or ever have been a long ball team. Under Hughton and now Pardew they've played good football and which Carroll fitted in fine with. What they did do was provide better service into the front two something I'd hoped Downing would have done for us. As for Henderson, he made his debut for Sunderland at right midfield and played most of last season there, it wasn't til later on in the season that he was moved into the centre. So Kenny playing him in the two positions isn't really asking him to do something he hasn't done before.

OriginalChan said...

They used long balls a plenty when it was Carroll-Ameobi up front. That is how they battered Arsenal. They just pelted missiles to them. They were a good pair for the long balls and crosses, as they were physical and good in the air. Newcastle did play some good stuff but part of that was plenty of long balls. To suggest otherwise, is bemusing apologist revisionism.
Henderson played in a different way for Sunderland on the wing. They used him solely for his crosses when on the wing and he has a very good crosser of the ball. At Liverpool, he is used a narrow-wide player, he floats inside as part of the short passing game KK wants the team play. So tactically, its a huge difference between the system he was playing in at Sunderland and the one he is in at Liverpool. Secondly, he has also been used in the hole behind the striker, where he looks out of his depth and probably never played there for Sunderland last season. Thirdly, he played plenty in central midfield and I'd argue that he has played there much more for them than on the right wing.None of that has got to do with 'bad luck' 

JOHNSMITH said...

Who won that trophy last season and where are they now...??
Carroll had no expectations last season but im sorry when you come to a big club like LFC straight away their is a massive expectation on you.
Downing may have been player of the year last year with Villa but the stand out star was easy Ashley Young...look who is doing the buisness now. (statistics count for nothing when everybody can see how crap your playing).
Henderson should have been protected by Dalglish not chucked straight in as if we've found the found the new Stevie G.
My point most Liverpool fans were not pleased with KK signings but we were willing to support the managers choice and give the team our full support...but at the end of the day you just have to put your hands up and say my best is not good enough (do you hear me mr Dalglish) PACE N POWER will win us the title not overpriced British players. it is easy to say if those players dont perform he'll move them on...lol first of all do you think they are worth as much money now...!! and secondly would you give more of your millions to a guy who has just wasted it....
I Thought so.

bleps said...

I would say that Suarez tries to do too much at times. Perhaps he's trying to compensate for a percieved lack of support from his team mates.

OriginalChan said...

and the thing is Ashley Young has had a season interrupted by injuries and has taken a while to find his rhythm after injury, yet he still is 'productive'. He has what you call a better 'bottom' level than Downing, i.e., his worse performances better than Downing and also on a off-day, he can still contribute with a fatal cross out of nowhere, win a penalty, etc. That is what genuine good players do, when they seem like they are playing poor, they can still pull something out of the bag. That is the problem with Downing and why he simply isn't good enough for a club that wants to be in the top 4. 

OriginalChan said...

Sounds like excuses being made for Suarez but each to their own I guess

scallyryan said...

Results say we are not ready for the top 4 mate. Not by the stature of our club and what we represent. How are we ready for top 4 when we are 10 points off 4th place never mind the top of the league!!!!!!

scallyryan said...

Said they don't look like winning anything meaning this season, have already forgot who won what last season!!!!But having said that they have used that FA CUP as a stepping stone to progress for a title challenge but did also make 4th place!!!Over 300m transfer fees and the size of their wage bill they should be winning the league!!! 

Zulu said...

When I said bad luck I was referring to the fact that the three players I mentioned haven't performed for Kenny, it's not because they are bad players it's because they haven't been able to adjust to the new surroundings, adapt their game to how Liverpool play or cope with the pressure of the inflated price tags. It happens in football, look at Veron and Shevchenko. Genuine world class players who couldn't adapt. In my opion it is our bad luck that we've brought in three players all at the same time who haven't been able to make the step up. Bemusing apologist revisionism - brilliant!

Red said...

You've all missed Mali341 point, he is SARCASTICLY correct!, what he's really saying is that................IF WE SIGN MORE CR*P, like Carroll,Adam, Henderson and Downing, we might win SH*T!!!

Brian -Ormskirk said...

Spot on Septimus! I liked the reference to the lack of vocal support from the fans who made the trek up to Sunderland.  They had paid hard earned money to watch that garbage.They are not stupid, there was nothing on display for them to get vocal about. Had Hodgson been in charge the team would have been booed off at the whistle. Regardless of the result tomorrow night Dalglish should advise FSG that he intends to terminate his contract at the end of the season and preserve what little respect he has left. The Second Coming has turned out to be an unmitigated disaster ! Sadly, God is not a Liverpool supporter !

OriginalChan said...

Its not bad luck. Its bad management. Hendo and Carroll haven't been used all that wisely by KK. Downing? I just don't think he is good enough. That isn't bad luck, that is just being mediocre. You can tell how good a player (though, I'm not talking about young players he is, rather more developed players) is when on a off-day, he can still pull something out of a bag. 

Veron, Keane and Scholes in the same side. Two midfield orchestrators and a dominant ball winner, as well as a side that is known for wing play. Tactically, the mancs failed to integrate him into their existing midfield. They had to push Scholes up front or put him on the bench quite a bit. Veron played better in his last season when Keane was out injured for half a season with hip or groin (i think) problem. Nothing to do with bad luck there. Just tactically, failed to get it right.Sheva was forced upon Mourinho by Roman. Obviously, that has tactical implications on what Jose had in mind for his team. Nothing to do with bad luck. Just Roman who once again gets carried away with his toy.
It is rarely ever bad luck for why top players fail to  succeed at a club. 

'bad luck', for most things in football, is an excuse for the weak

Red said...

He's really P*SS taken, and you all gulliblly responded to him, Oops

Spaniard said...

I hope so Septimus_red, KK unfortunately is not cutting the mustard, and FSG's silence  does speak volumes to be honest and the Suarez affair would have put KK in a very bad light in their eyes.

I hope you're rigth and we can get the right calibre manager in and release the dross in the squad. Adam and downing must go at the very least. Hendo is young so could give him another year or two. Carroll is a dosappointment but I blame KK for not paying him correctly, or playing to his strenghts. I also don't like the fact that Suarez is played out of position as well. when he played in holland he played the right side of the front three and couldn't stop scoring. why is it when we buy players we play them out of positon, then complain they aren't delivering? - do they do it on prupose or what???

Zulu said...

Carroll played and scored in the season Newcastle went down when Shearer was in charge.

Spaniard said...

I admit, I was excitied when I heard we'd got Carroll and Adam. In regards to Hendo and Downing, I was like meh. downing I thought would be a useful squad player, but not at £18m. He is worth no more than half that.

Adam is a liability - what happened to his famed dead ball specialtiy? I watched the game against sunderland and he had a "shot" tipped over the bar according to the commentator. When in reality, it was nothing more that an attempted cross that went too close to the keeper, and he reacted like he'd missed by inches when deep down you coudl see he messed up and delivered a poor cross as ususal. Carroll is just not getting the service from anybody and he's not to blame - he was unplayable at Newcastle cos Noaln and Barton made sure they delivered timed crosses on to his head while he was running on to it - this does not happen at Liverpool for him and KK is setting him up to fail all the time.

Then when he does play well, he's dropped again - KK has lost the plot big style

Gothmog said...

I can't forgive Dalglish for his stupidity and ignorance to overhaul his first XI which he played at the end of last season .... they played wonderful football, they clicked as a team - Kenny just needed to further improve it and not change it completely, he has only himself to blame for this woeful season !!

We didn't need Downing, we didn't need Henderson ..... what we needed was a great goalscorer to compete with Carroll for the centre forward position and another wide forward like Suarez and maybe another central midfielder (depended on Aquilani staying or going .... and please don't come up with the reason that Alberto didn't want to stay ... we simply don't know.)

What was the reason to change our 4-2-3-1 formation to a 4-4-2 one in the first place ??

- Was it because of Carroll ??
- Was it because back in the days we played terrific football with this system ??

I don't know why he wanted to change our formation ... all I can say is that he has made a terrible mistake by doing so !!

We had a really good squad already assembled to play the 4-2-3-1 system and were playing fantastic "pass & move" football at that point yet.

Kenny just abandoned his footballing philosophy of "pass and move" football in the summer to fit his new idea of playing, whatever that may be ....

We no longer have a football philosophy, we no longer induce fear in our opponents facing us, we no longer belong to the best, we are just there ....

I feel sorry for Stevie G, must be heartbreaking for him knowing that we haven't progressed one bit and may lose our star player once again !!!!

Alric said...

Toon fan come in peace. Look lads, LFC have given us some right hammerings over the years, but we've always admired the football. The one thing that gets our goat is the time Dalglish (we will NEVER call him King Kenny) was our manager. He got rid of all our skilfull players and brought in some that weren't up to it, not to mention giving contracts to pals of his (Rush and Barnes) whose legs had gone. His tactics (or lack of them) bewildered us. From being The Entertainers (even though we won nowt) we ended up playing the sort of stuttering football under him I see from LFC now. He was sullen, miserable, and eventually seemed to spend most of his on the golf course. He is not a good manager.

Red said...

Jesus people ......you've just clicked on, about Mali341???.

Theycallmemrburt said...

I remember that goal.   A header from a free kick.  He actually jumped!!

Theycallmemrburt said...

You my friend have hit the nail on the head from 25 yards.  What a screameeeeer!!!!

Andreas Anderson, Guivarch, Jon dahl Tomasson, CArl serrant, Dabizas Flogging Ginola and Asprilla.  If Kennys second stint at Liverpool were a movie it would be called 'Newcastle...the revenge'

Red said...

KD=Souness!

Gothmog said...

You are right Suarez doesn't perform to his potential, but it's not his fault. He is a player, who thrives on movement of the team, opening up space for his teammates, creating chances and setting them up to score.

You just need to look back to the end of last season to realise this.

We played with Suarez, Maxi and Kuyt as the front three with Meireles as the attacking midfielder and our full backs supporting the attack on every ocassion back then. It was all down to the movement of these four that we scored so many goals and made it really hard for the opposition's defenders to cope with our attack.

It isn't hard to defend against a team, which attacks with only one man in the box, whether it's Carroll or Suarez .....

We aren't adventurous enough in our attacking play, we always prefer to play it safe. How many through balls or one-on-one or tap in situations have we seen all season - not many, have we ??

It's all down to penetrating the opposition's box, the more player you have in there, the higher your chance will be to get a opportunity to score.

That's exactly the reason why the scum so often scores the equaliser or winning goal at the end of the game, because the crowd the opposition's box and force the goal.

We also did it at the end of last season, but only then. I don't know if it was down to the style of play, so it happened naturally, or if it was down to Dalglish advice.

OriginalChan said...

'half a season as a FIRST TEAM REGULAR in PL'
 
His last season at Newcastle was his first as a  first XI player in PL, that is what I mean by first team regular. Sorry, if my wording was ambiguous, though I would hope one would read between the lines if wording wasn't succinct. If I said 'squad regular', you would have a point.

OriginalChan said...

Still can't believe he broke up the Ferdinand-Shearer partnership. Great unusual partnership. Sold off Ferdinand. Thought maybe Ameobi-Carroll replicated it...to a CERTAIN EXTENT ;)

gabweb said...

Thing is, however bad our signings have been, most of them did play better with their previous clubs, so not only have we bought duds, we have not even got them to perform at their level. The lack of pace and movement in the side seems to be the main problem. Apparently, we are high up in the 'attempts on target' stats, but many of the attempts on Saturday were barely stronger than backpasses. For all his faults, average finishing, etc, Suarez appears on a different wavelength to the rest of the team a lot of the time, and the player that did seem to be on the same wavelength as him, Meireles, was sold. Bellamy, too, seems to be a step ahead of our midfield a lot of the time, and, therefore, our biggest failing was to not bring in the providers who would create chances that would make the most of the movement of players like Suarez or Bellamy, or consistent crossers and players with pace who might get balls into the box early for Carroll.

Our strikers are not scoring enough, but i still cannot see who is creating the chances for the team.

you always know things are bad when you cannot see what the team is trying to achieve anymore and that is, sadly, the case at the moment. Kenny really needs to stand down at the end of the season. The results are bad enough but the lack of any apparent game plan makes it worse.

wholelottaloew said...

Just to clarify, Joachim Löw has never at any point said he was stepping down after the Euro 2012!  He has a contract with the DFB (German football association until 2014) and has given a vague indication he might one day like to return to Club coaching, but in the past few days have confirmed his only thought at the moment is with Germany!
(Mind you, as an English fan of his, I would personally love to see him in the Premier League!)

redredman said...

Septimus_red how do you know silence speaks volumes. It could be silence simply because they have nothing to say. Dalglish and Comolli said in December they had money to spend if they wanted to spend it and if the players they wanted where available. Dalglish made it clear at the beginning of the window that as far as the first team squad was concerned there would be no ins or outs. The window closed before the handshake incident so that has no bearing on funds at all. I have been told that Henry did not force Dalglish to apologise. Dalglish apologised because he was deeply embarresed at his response to Jeff Shreeves. i believe what I was told is true. Dont misunderstand my posts in this conversation we are having, I have not said if I support Kenny staying or going truth is I am not certain. I am certain that team and individual performances must improve. The players need to show some support for there manager as he has offerred them plenty all season. I repeat its not just KDs fault. 

Mali341 said...

Kd = Roy Hodgson + 100MILLION spent

Karlsutton27 said...

everybody knows daglish had the last say and he fked it up like everything else . this is the worst lfc team in last 40 yrs they are a joke no gameplan no ideas wen attacking whos fault is that comoli he signed suarez and enrique rest is daglish sack him now and bring in the man we should have done ten yrs ago MARTIN ONIELL !!!!!!

OriginalChan said...

To a certain extent, it was partially Dalglish's fault that Souness started changing things. 
Leaving Souness with a old squad.  Yes, Souness went well over the top in bringing the age down, as he should have kept the likes of Beardo and did a smoother transition (though this is partially down to KK). But Dalglish barely did anything good in terms of evolving and refreshing the squad in the latter years of his first reign at the club. Signing cack like Speedie. 

Graynan said...

Christian Gross is German.

:-$

G

OriginalChan said...

With the talent that is coming through in Germany, its an exciting time to be in charge of the German national team. One can see why Low would want to stay at least until the end of his contract. They got attacking midfielders galore coming through the ranks in the likes of Reus, Goetze, Schurrle, Holtby, etc and yet Podolski and Schweini are only 26/27 and they are n 90+ caps! Yikes!!!

Karlsutton27 said...

lads were takin about a man who managed in a different era here he should be nowhere near the manager from lfc , he is now offially ruining his legecy , he should just resign i wouldnt mind him as academy director but not fkn manager that a joke he hasnt got the tactical nowhow , our attacking play is the most boring in world football bring in martin oniell or frank righgard , and please fsg if u are reading this ever please stop the mismanagment of the club we have been so badly ran as a buisseness and as a club for the past 20 yrs its shocking i think most fans would be better running the club than what we have had wating money , not taking advantage of our global appeal list goes on and on get martin oniell he will have sterling tearing the prem to shreads get the best from players kennys a legend and a nice guy but is woefully inept at modern day managment any more time wasted with him will prove a failure love liverpool and want to see the best fans in the world gettin wat we deserve this is not good enough....ynwa

ks said...

i dont know wat ur smoking mate nut ill have some of tnat cuz its after puttin u on cloud fkn cuku land , u havent a fkn clue wat ur talkin about , wat a bell

Karlsutton25 said...

agree he will be decent wen played proper but still overpaid bigtime on him he was a waste of money in terms of buyin wat we needed but he will devol into a good prem player the rest are pure shite exept downing he would be good under matin oniell pls get him

Al said...

Get rid off the dead wood players like Adam,Carroll,Henderson,Downing,Bellamy and bring some skilful players instead...you'll see things turn around and Suarez scoring 20-30 goals a season.

gabweb said...

Newcastle take the lead, Van Persie equalises within a minute. He now only has 4 less goals than our entire team!!

Jae Sun Imbak Wae said...

So by your reasoning if we had a player like say...Aquilani we would be challenging for the league? If only...

Jobsaplenty said...

Wow! Such poor support. keep up the hating haters...

gabweb said...

Yes, as usual, though, we were better in the cups than we were in the league.

OriginalChan said...

Good luck getting the club to embarrassingly sell off what you call the 'dead wood', so soon after buying them.

gabweb said...

When you look at the teams above us, though, you can see why they are doing better than us, look at some of their signings :

Man City - Aguero, Clichy, Nasri - two good, one average.
Man Utd - De Gea, Jones, Young - Fair play, we tried to get two of those, and De Gea has been average but is now improving. Jones has been versatile as well.
Arsenal - Chamberlain, Mertesacker, Arteta, Benayoun, Santos - Most of those have been average, but Chamberlain has been good.
Chelsea - Mata, Cahill, Meireles, Lukaku and Romeu - two are young, Meireles ok, Mata and Cahill have been good, though.
Tottenham - Parker, Adebayor, Saha - One just joined, the other two have been good.
Newcastle - Ba, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Santon, Cabaye - All good signings.

Seems as if all the teams above us have had more success in the transfer market, even though one of them have lost a manager. I'd say all those clubs did better than us in the transfer market. In fact, our two successful signings from last summer cost us 6 million between them. The three who have struggled cost us around 45 million.  

Haribol said...

Kenny has not been involved in modern football for the last 20 years.He was hired on the basis of emotions after Hodgson went.He is clearly out of his depth with tactics and finding the correct type of players.He still acts like its the 80s and buys english overpriced crap.And now we cant say a critical word against him because he is a legend.We shoot ourself in the foot with this one

gabweb said...

While we've lost 3 in a row in the league, Arsenal become the first team to win 4 in row in the Premier League after being a goal down in all four games. Their winning goal tonight, Vermaelen in the opposition box in open play, was deserved, if only because Vermaelen was prepared to get in there and have a go. Having players who are prepared to think for themselves, assess the situation and not always stick to robotic tactics was the difference between a draw and a win for them tonight. If we'd won that game against them we'd be 7 behind with a game in a hand, but their ability to pull something out of the fire, compared to our predictable play, is making the difference.

OriginalChan said...

Suarez is not a second striker, so I don't agree with your emphasis on him creating chances and setting them up (he barely got any assists in the last half of last season, a period where you think he was showing the best of his game, as well as got none for Ajax in the league earlier in the season. He only had one season where he was good in terms of assists but he still scored much more goals than assists in that season. He is a goalscorer, not a second striker). Wasn't used like that at Ajax. For Uruguay, he plays the furthest forward (sometimes on the left as a interchanging player) with Forlan behind him as the second-striker and Cavani on the right. He is a goalscorer, not a link up play. To suggest otherwise, is just making excuses for him.

Of course it is his fault. He has had plenty of chances to score but simply does not put them away. He has hit the post a few times, scuffed chances, etc. How is that not his fault?I agree we do not commit enough players forward. One of the central midfielders and the wide player from the opposite wing do not gamble enough to get in the box. That is a general weakness of the side which effects all the attacking players, not just our so-called hero Suarez.

thered_beard said...

skrtel was playing much better that you think, the only change is dropping carragher, who has became a liability in benitez last season, and thank god for that now carragher should get his coaching papers and not play any more

ShardeYNWALFC4EVER said...

Jamie, you write to get reaction. Tell us something NEW.
Your ignorant "pointless competition" remark really shows you do not have a clue. Your pointless articles are a waste of everyone's time. I shall give you a miss in the future. Write for some kids Sunday league.

Jim G said...

And we tried to get Chamberlain, apparently, or at least were heavily linked with him.
And Mata.
And Cahill.

We always seem to buy players who excel at their previous clubs, but then freeze for us. Such as Oyvind Leonhardsen. Player of the year at Wimbledon, stalwart for Norway, mince for us. [see Adam, Charlie].


As an aside, I am quite angry with Jaimie Kanwar's assertion that the League Cup is a "pointless competition". 
You complete mug, Jaimie, you've just belittled 8 Cup Wins. Who needs Man United to re-write history, when our own "fans" can do it so well?
Did it never occur to you why Ferguson started the trend of resting players for the League Cup? Answer: Liverpool had 5 or 6 compared with United's measly ONE. So he belittled the competition. He said it was pointless. He effectively wiped away our history, so that new fans now regard the League cup with derision. Kids now say it's "only" the League Cup, but that particular competition has given me some of the best days out of my life.

So thanks, Jaimie, why don't you get LFC to amend the Honours Board in the programme while you are at it, you 5th Columnist?

Jim G said...

From what I remember, Suarez wasn't bought as a striker per se, he was bought as a foil for Torres. But then Torres jumped ship.

At the minute Suarez just seems to be trying to be just that bit too clever.

Redrealist77 said...

Hi mate. Don't u think if comolli have final say on transfer than we should already have Moussa Sissoko over Adam. Mata, Bastos or Boudebouz over Downing, and Gomez, Benzema, or at least Remy & Giroud over Carroll.

Mali341 said...

YYeh but we are progressing and kk has got us the shirt deal too...van persie can't match that....kk also orders the canteen dinners too as well as the rubbish collectionand washes the kits....its not all about position in the league

Mali341 said...

Kenny Dalglish has launched an impassioned defence of his record at Liverpool, claiming he should not be judged by the club's league position alone and that kit deals are as important as victories.



WTF@ck IS GOING ON.....KK IS EMBARRASSING .....FACT

Martin Badger said...

Kenny was a brilliant player for Liverpool and a brilliant manager first time around. This time he's brought very, very badly and, I'm afraid, those signings have ruined any chance he had of success. But don't imagine it would be different with anybody else in charge. All that would have happened with Benitez at the helm is that he would have played a reserve side at Exeter and got us knocked out of the Carling at the first stage. Other managers have bought badly too - we have a history of dreadful signings. And when we do buy a player who looks reasonable he always underperforms horribly. There is something seriously wrong with the structure of the club. I hate United but full credit to them for claiming the league again, which they will. They have all the fight and ddtermination Liverpool lack.

Martin Badger said...

Carroll is six foot three and is one of the poorest headers of a ball I've seen. He's utterly dreadful in the air. Ever heard of Tony Hateley or John Toshack? Now they could head a ball. It's nothing to do with service - big Andy is just a hopeless dud.

OriginalChan said...

and people are smiling at Melwood.....

Ashfah Hussain said...

How true can it be, Puki Mak and Kunkit.

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