14 May 2015

Debunking LFC Myths: No 17 - Jordan Henderson is not an attacking-midfielder

Jordan Henderson is an attacking midfielder. This is a staggeringly obvious statement, but in my experience, a growing number of Liverpool fans simply refuse to accept it. Over the last three years, I've highlighted Hendo's paucity in front of goal on numerous occasions, and every time, I'm shouted down by fans who rabidly insist that LFC's captain-elect is not an attacking midfielder. Well, he IS, and the man himself has confirmed this.

In August, I posted an article arguing the following about Henderson:

"Ten league goals is the bare minimum that should be expected; ten in all competitions isn't good enough for an attacking midfielder. Overall, my expectation for Henderson this season = 25 goals/assists (10 goals/15 assists or 15 goals/10 assists)"

Here are two examples of the type of comments received in response to the above expectation:

* "Henderson is not an attacking midfielder; secondly 15 goals is an unrealistic target. If Hendo scores 10 this season (all comps) he's done well"

* "Henderson is not an attacking midfielder when he's playing alongside Gerrard. You don't need to be an AM to score 10 goals per season. Look at Lampard"

I regularly argue that Henderson needs to score/create goals on a more regular basis, and it seems that the man himself agrees. In a recent interview with official Liverpool FC website, Hendo noted:

"I need to improve on goals and assists...and have a bigger impact on games. My target [is] around the 10-goal mark. Ideally, if you are playing as an attacking midfielder you want to be getting a minimum of ten"

If Henderson identifies himself as an 'attacking midfielder', then it's fair to say that Henderson is, as a matter of irrefutable fact, an attacking midfielder, no?

Of course, I may have it backwards; as fans often tell me, football is a staggeringly complex sport, and without having 'played the game' to Premier League level, it's impossible to comprehend perplexing concepts like player positions, tactical formations, and the mother of all impenetrable brain-scratchers: the offside rule.

I clearly don't have the Olympian intelligence required to discern the difference between a deep-lying midfielder and an attacking midfielder, but still I think I'm on solid ground here: Jordan Henderson is an attacking midfielder, and the increasingly prevalent attempts to intellectualise football will not change that.

With that in mind, Hendo deserves some credit for his sterling efforts (no pun intended) this year. He's on 22 goals/assists for the season so far, which is not far off the 25 goals/assists expectation.

That said, with only 7 goals in 52 appearances, Henderson still needs to massively improve his scoring rate, and - as he himself admits - he needs to have a more consistent 'impact on bigger games'.

I full expect Henderson to take it up a notch next season, and after signing a huge new contract, fans should expect, no, demand, 25-30 goals/assists (all competitions) next year.

Author: Jaimie K


131 comments:

  1. And Charlie Adam considered himself a footballer...

    Doesn't mean he is.

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  2. Stan Dinaround9:06 pm, May 14, 2015

    I love you....

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  3. Stan Dinaround9:08 pm, May 14, 2015

    Your the only person then to believe this.... Hendo is a CM.... There I said it.....

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  4. Am I the only one who has never heard someone say Henderson is an attacking midfielder? Isn't that sort of obvious?

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  5. I believe Hendo thinks he's an AM. I believe he wants to be an AM. However, his footwork in the position is not up to snuff. His decision-making isn't either. His work-rate remains unquestioned, but his creativity is lacking and his touch is...less than deft.

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  6. Stan Dinaround9:09 pm, May 14, 2015

    No, and yes.

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  7. Well, I agree with you on that one ;-)

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  8. Southampton best achievement comes from BR signing.

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  9. ...do we actually have scouts?

    ; )

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  10. My biggest criticism.

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  11. Stan Dinaround9:25 pm, May 14, 2015

    Just one small but significant point that has been overlooked...... Schneiderlin and Wanyama.

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  12. Looks like you were right about everything then - bows respectfully ;-/

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  13. Pre-emptively upvoted

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  14. Stan Dinaround9:26 pm, May 14, 2015

    We do, but with FSG trying to cut costs, their copy of football manager and Fifa are a few years out of date.....

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  15. Stan Dinaround9:28 pm, May 14, 2015

    Sakho is a leader, and a quality defender, his ability is not in question, just his fitness....

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  16. Stan Dinaround9:29 pm, May 14, 2015

    We don;t have a decent fitness record... I have to question the training methods that sees so many recring injuries...

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  17. Is it not about time that Tiago Ilori starts playing for us? Every time I questioned Rodgers signing him, I was told he was for the future and I didn't know what I was talking about. Could it Be Ilori was just another Rodgers transfer failure

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  18. Er, that's two, but what a pair indeed! I like the former.

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  19. Stan Dinaround9:39 pm, May 14, 2015

    He has played a large role in Bordeaux's season this year, and for the most part, played reasonable football....just not spectacular..

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  20. Stan Dinaround9:41 pm, May 14, 2015

    No more, no less.

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  21. Stan Dinaround9:43 pm, May 14, 2015

    It has been a decidedly poor season as far as seasons go, overall that is.....

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  22. Apparently he did the dirty on us years back and we have not dealt with him since. He has more power in the game than Liverpool does these days so we can assume problems will.continue in the transfer market.

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  23. Markovic is a winger/ second striker. But only when he plays there, right?

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  24. I actually think that he's very good on the ball -- his touch can be exquisite, and his creativity is decent, considering he's not a playmaker, and has responsibilities in every phase of play. Some of this through passes he makes, I don't think anyone sees but him. And his crossing is absolutely first rate -- like a throwback to the late 90s.

    For me the main thing he lacks to be a real goalscoring midfielder is the movement. Even when he makes the runs, he sometimes just mistimes them, or he doesn't shape them quite right. Can picture him throwing his arms up in frustration when he doesn't receive the ball after a run and thinks he's in space, but more often than not it's his own fault, he just doesn't know it. I can't remember ever seeing him shape and finish a passing move with some movement of his own, can you?

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  25. Stan Dinaround9:48 pm, May 14, 2015

    Debunking the myth that Rafa Benitez is LFC's saviour.....Losing his semi to Dnipro..... What a failure....can't even win a semi against a villaesque team.....what a loser.... #Rafa out

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  26. Interesting, where did you read that? I assumed there was an issue, but is it public knowledge, then?

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  27. It's all too easy to lose a semi

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  28. Go watch the goal- Konopljanka with the assist.

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  29. Stan Dinaround9:51 pm, May 14, 2015

    Hendo is a cracking playmaker, ball winner.... and thats were it ends.

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  30. At the moment they are. I doubt he wants to go back there though and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't sell him to us. I would imagine we would be a more attractive proposition for him both financially and in terms of stature, no disrespect to Southampton. Can't imagine he'd cost the earth either

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  31. Stan Dinaround9:52 pm, May 14, 2015

    Saw it, nice header while dragging down the defender...They still look more likely to score next...

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  32. In a diamond, I'd put him on the flank of it, not the tip. In the 4231, I'd put him in the base two alongside of a DM or on either flank of the 3, but not the tip. In a flat 442- right side or the middle(alongside DM) In 4321 I could play him behind dtriker, but accompanied by Couts (or someone similar). Point is I would like to have a better AM in the team, but I wouldn't like to have a team without him.

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  33. Can't recall a specific instance though I'm sure he has...but I think he makes his own luck with work rate. I like Hendo, but David Silva he will never be.

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  34. That dribble and the cross were something..

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  35. One of the very worst. I can't remember a single really good, high quality, high intensity match. All too often one side or the other has failed to turn up. Gary Neville's probably been the highlight. Never thought I'd be saying that.

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  36. Nice edit.

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  37. Could it be a fair conclusion that young Jordan, is, an attacking midfielder when Brendan plays him as such, but that hasn't been the case for a lot of the season and with that in mind his stats aren't at all bad but with room for improvement.
    Anyway, hopefully that's enough LFC related content to not have the following struck form the record:- If anyone enjoys the beeb's blue planet type programs then I can highly recommend 'Shark' which has just aired as very worthwhile catch-up material.
    Many apologies if that's too far off-topic, I'm just testing the water.

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  38. I'd want to test the water first two after watching that programme

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  39. JK - you'd may a great lawyer. Picking apart words here and there to not just make your own opinion but make them turn into irrefutable facts. Your patronizing tone in your article is unnecessary. You are wrong a lot of the time, and right a lot of other times. Take the good with the bad and don't patronize people who have different opinions to you.

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  40. God Jaime get ready for your usual reply, but sorry this isn't being pedantic. He said "if your playing as an attacking midfielder" that maybe because he was getting played in that position at the time but the is not saying " if YOU ARE an attacking midfielder" very different sentences with different meanings. I would expect some use of hwatmaps, positions he touches the ball etc if you are "debunking myths" misinterpreting quotes debunks nothing.
    To have two types of midfielder (deep lying and attacking) either shows a lack of knowledge of the game or (as I suspect) a willingness to ignore various different variations and nuanced positions in midfield.

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  41. God Orme, I wrote a big rant and you did it better in a couple of words. Tips hat.

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  42. Read it mainly in forums but quite sure it is true. Nor sure what Mourinho incident your on about. He is Mourinho's manager though.

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  43. I thought Us v City with Couts winner was closest to a real humdinger.

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  44. I concur. Absolutely magnificent underwater camera work, as we've come to expect from BBC nature documentaries.


    Though looking at those rows of impressive teeth did put me in mind of an even more famous set of gnashers.....

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  45. We were supposed to sign Mourinho as manager, supposedly, in 2005; then Mendes and Pini Zahavi stepped in and took him to Chelsea.



    I was reading about a whole raft of players Mendes is trying to bring to Liverpool at the moment, from Danilo to Falcao. But to be honest they all seemed very shaky. Still, something going on there.

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  46. Case you hit the nail on the head, 'Jordan is an attacking midfielder when Brendan plays him as such'. Has Jamie built in a special matrix to adjust the target of 25 goals/assists when Jordan is played as part of the double DM pivot or does he still expect him to reach this number?

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  47. Agreed. Same goes for Markovic

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  48. It often happens the year after a World Cup

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  49. Ah yes, that was acceptable!

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  50. Maybe he just uses our name to get what he wants. Probably peas off the club. He is also Valdes!.agent. Another one of those done deals that fell through. Maybe we just won't pay his massive fees. The club did say they were not going to get made to pay big bucks.

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  51. I once watched 40 minutes of Barnes' best- did you see him play?

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  52. Has Jamie built a special matrix?
    That all depends on whether he chose the red pill or the blue pill...

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  53. Some classic nevergonnacrack in that thread.

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  54. Sterling for Alderweireld + cash would actually be a good deal. Sterling would boost their attack in the way they are wanting (though I'm not sure they actually want sterling), and Alderweireld would give us the Skrtel backup/LCB that we've been looking for. A defense of Alderweireld and Sakho in 3 years with Lovren as backup and Skrtel as our "Toure" would be solid imo.

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  55. I did, as my pic would suggest, he was/is my all time favourite footballer..... The bloke was an amazing player....

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  56. The simple question is this: if the expectation for Henderson is 30 goals/assists what should we expect of the players playing AHEAD of him on the pitch (there at least 4 each game)? Complete and utter unrealistic expectation in my opinion.

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  57. I watched a lot of Ibe in the reserve games when he was coming up and the reason for the fans hype imo is that he exhibited a lot of what Sterling was doing but he had a better shooting technique and was stronger. Therefore people assumed (and still do) that he will be better than Sterling or a greater potential to become a more complete player than Sterling.

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  58. I think he's finding he feet but he'll be a future monster imo and that's why LFC offered him the contract and didn't want another Sterling cash episode. Also didn't he set up Bali goal against Spurs? Could be wrong

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  59. While you're at it why not demand 65 goals/assists from Lucas Leiva, too.


    Hendo may identify himself as a primarily attacking midfielder, but he has rarely played as such this season. Hendo is IMO one of the best box to box midfielders in the world in a midfield 3. Let's pick a team though:

    ------Gerrard---Henderson
    Sterling-----Coutinho-----Lallana
    --------------Lambert

    ------Lucas----Henderson
    Ibe/Lallana---Gerrard---Coutinho
    ---------------Sterling

    How about your favourite 5 at the back system you've used in every predicted line up recently:

    ------Can---Skrtel-----Lovren
    Johnson---------------------Moreno
    ------------Lucas---Hendo
    --------------Gerrard
    --------Sterling-Lambert or any striker combo.

    Where is Henderson playing? He can identify himself as whatever type of player he likes. It's down to Rodgers to give him a role and that has most certainly not been, at any point this entire season, as a primary attacking midfielder.

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  60. The most spot on comment I've ever read. Thumbs up ;)

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  61. Messi as the the one closest to the goal would be called a flop..

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  62. And ''to intellectualise football''? You really think this game is a simple thing?

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  63. It's not he also helps out defensively, he helps out offensively.

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  64. What player doesn't want to score more goals? And yes he can, And yes he will. Once he has reliable attackers in front of him. Once he has reliable defenders behind him. So far so good. Very, very good.

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  65. An interesting comparison if it makes through moderation...

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  66. Jordan Henderson isn't a defensive-midfielder. Jordan Henderson isn't an attacking-midfielder. Jordan Henderson is a box-to-box midfielder.

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  67. shoulda bought him back before the game hahaha

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  68. ...now if only we were statistics based.....oh wait......apparently we are.......


    ...but someones gonna twist it so it looks sh**

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  69. No more Sth ham players thats it and ya just know they are going to fleece who ever buys him.

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  70. ...dunno why everytime someone says box-to-box I think of threesomes........ :-)

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  71. Sorry, but his value is what the market will pay for him, not how much Liverpool value him.

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  72. What Henderson defines himself as is not being argued by anyone except you. He clearly calls himself an AM, yes. It's categorical, it's unequivocal. No argument from me or anyone else to suggest otherwise. With such a simplistic and convenient view, myth debunked on your part.


    Clearly he isn't being utilised as an attacking midfielder and is why your point is just empty rhetoric. You are ignoring the fact here. The formations and teams I listed are the most recently used by Rodgers. You're stretching your argument to suggest Henderson is an attacking midfielder in these shapes. It's clearly not the case. His responsibility in these shapes is changed significantly. With your view, Allen, McCarthy, Herrera, Yacob, Mason, Bentaleb et al are all attacking midfielders.


    On the other hand, 4-3-3, different role, different responsibility, different story. And just because we highlight this difference doesn't mean we are smug geniuses either.

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  73. When it comes to specific, measurable impact, that pseudo-scientific measurement flies out the window when you stack Erevidisie stats up against EPL stats.

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  74. AM punch above their weight. They're allowed to.

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  75. Fonte will be a good addition for 4 million but Is this not one more example which shows the inability of BR to judge a player correctly ?...we need better recruitment team and i am afraid tht BR who is good at managing team rather than judging good players will again add two more free transfer potential strikers and defenders rather than getting top quality ready made striker and defender for hefty price...get ready for same old shocking transfer window this season too...

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  76. Why br want to wasted money buy a new centre defender, call ball tiago ilori from loan then develop him to the senior team also bring lyod jones to the team as back up as we know sakho is injured, lovren performance below the bar, coates n toure maybe out next season so lfc got skrtel, lovren, sakho, ilori n possibly jones.

    for right back situation if johnson out just bring andre wisdom back to the club, leftback still got moreno even if enrique out, flanagan still injured but still can backup both right/left back position if fits.

    Because, our main priority is to get top level and experience strikers maybe 1 or 2, but for me carlos bacca can be swap with aspas now got origi maybe next is ings, if sturridge recover then we got 4 strikers and its good competitions between them...

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  77. Empty rhetoric? What nonsense. I just see things differently to you. A 2D formation on a compute screen is not an accurate representation of where Henderson spends most of time during games.

    Look at action areas/heat maps of Henerson's games this season, and it's clear that he spends more time in the opposition half, and that happens because he is - de facto - an attacking midfielder.

    As for the list of names you reel off - Henderson does not play the same role as any of those players, so the point is moot.

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  78. For me, get asier illaramendi and javier pastore to filled dm and deep lying playmaker, for next season fsg & br just bring 2 mf players and 2 striker/foward...

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  79. Hazard plays attacking midfield - are you saying Henderson plays in the same position as Hazard?


    How often has Henderson played at the tip of a midfield diamond, or as the most advanced of a midfield 3. Very rarely. We can all see he is the midfield partner to Lucas/Allen/Gerrard, with one more advanced player in front of them. Henderson is very rarely that 'advanced' midfielder. Show me some line-ups/games stating otherwise.

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  80. I think so much more respect would be given if just once in a while, you admitted your argument has some holes in it. Like a lot of other posters on here.

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  81. There are different types of attacking midfielder, not just one inflexible 'type'. Gerrard has spent lots of his career as an attacking midfield; did he play in the same position as Hazard? No.

    Did Lampard play the same position as Hazard? No. Are you now going to tell me that Lampard is not an attacking mid?!

    A midfielder doesn't have to be advanced all the time to be an AM; it all boils down to the primary function of the player.

    In Henderson's case, his primary function is to create and score goals, which is why he has - on several occasions (including his latest quotes) - challenged himself to more goals.

    Rodgers has also mentioned several times that Henderson needs to score more. Why? Because he is an attacking midfielder whose primary function is to score and create goals.

    You are free to think what you like - Henderson's take on his own position is good enough for me.

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  82. Yes. Football is simple. Tactics are easy to understand, as is everything else related to the game, yet some fans are desperate to intellectualise it, and make out that mere mortals are not capable of understanding a game that is populated and run some of the most (comparatively) uneducated people in society.


    Contrary to the fawning belief of some fans, Football is not some complex, abstract concept that only a few select geniuses can comprehend.


    The only difficult thing about football is managing egos, and general man-management.

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  83. 25-30 goals per season? So you expect him to just about double Stevie's goal tally for our massive 08/09 season where he was deployed almost as a frontman alongside Torres? Jaimie, this is way off the ball, you must be able to see that.
    Hendo is a box-to-box midfielder, not much could be clearer in our team. The guy CAN play behind the strikers and CAN play on the right (not very well IMO) but his ideal possy is clearly in a 3 man midfield or one of the two holding in a 5.

    Often played alongside Gerrard, Lucas or Allen, he is the more attacking of the 2/3 but is in no means an attacking midfielder. Coutinho, Oscar, Mata, Silva, Nasri, Cazorla, Ozil, they are attacking mids.
    This is all opinion I suppose, but it seems really obvious..
    Besides, his quote clearly states that his goal is 10, but an attacking mid should aim for more than ten, doesnt that kind of say that he doesnt even consider himself an AM?

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  84. Chelsea and Arsenal defenders have scored more goal's than Liverpool striker's ,so are they called Centre Forward's ?

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  85. Defending on the opposition half?

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  86. So a good elementary teacher can manage Liverpool?

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  87. Mike Aitcheson4:42 am, May 15, 2015

    Interesting though that you have switched to overall statistics for this case rather than PL. Sterling has 21 assists/goals this season to Hendo's 22 , yet you describe his contribution in a much more critical manner.
    Henderson, you say, has earned the right to his rise; Sterling hasn't. The difference between them is 1 goal, and a penalty at that.
    That said though, I agree that both players have fallen short. I just wondered about the different treatment and descriptions, especially when they were both contract 'rebels' - Hendo refused his first offer too..

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  88. Mike Aitcheson4:44 am, May 15, 2015

    No mate, he said goals/assists...

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  89. Mike Aitcheson4:46 am, May 15, 2015

    His re is similar to Yaya Toure's at City. Anchor, distributor and goal threat

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  90. Mike Aitcheson5:18 am, May 15, 2015

    Absolutely. Pure genius

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  91. Mike Aitcheson5:22 am, May 15, 2015

    Slighty confused now- the heat maps I saw on googling 'Jordan Henderson heat maps' show at least 2 or 3 to 1 him spending more time in our half
    Is there somewhere better to look?

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  92. In Hendersons defense the assists may have been much higher had we been playing a striker who could finish.

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  93. With experience why not!

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  94. "Of course, I may have it backwards; as fans often tell me, football is a
    staggeringly complex sport, and without having 'played the game' to
    Premier League level, it's impossible to comprehend perplexing concepts
    like player positions, tactical formations, and the mother of all
    impenetrable brain-scratchers: the offside rule."


    Enjoyed that.

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  95. Nailed it.

    Good engine, though, and occasionally picks a decent pass when he has space.

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  96. Konoplyanka was the best player on the pitch in the first leg. Total class act. Didn't see last night's game but glad his team is through.

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  97. Thanks for the tip. Love shark doccies.

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  98. He is based a bit deeper than a 10 but he's not wonderful tracking back, so he's given more freedom to attack and press high. You're right.

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  99. Sounds promising. Doesn't make a difference in a mid table team in Ligue 1. Another transfer turned out bad so. How unexpected.

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  100. Far, far simpler than rugby, for instance.

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  101. And an eye for talent and teaching technique.

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  102. It's the Mata benchmark.

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  103. Bit of a joke. Play two good holding midfielders in front of our defence and we'll be okay. The fact that Fonte is probably good enough for Liverpool is besides the point.

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  104. Dogfish are the best

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  105. It still boggles my mind why we didn't close the Eriksen deal.

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  106. Yes Hendo is an attacking midfielder BUT he has been played in a deeper role, by Brendan, for the majority of this season so 22 goals/ assists is a great output considering the quality of our team right now. He has the highest goals/ assists in the team and he being played as a CM not a CAM.

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  107. Agreed but some say that would be "too midtable"

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  108. Think you'll enjoy; as Ash says the camera work is astonishingly good and I've never seen that variety of species, location and behaviour captured before, excellent viewing.

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  109. Ah, finally you are getting to the bottom of your argumentation, JK. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are trying to speak of two different things (player's position and role) without differentiating them very clearly until now. The problem is that when you are talking about Hendo's ROLE as attacking midfielder, people confuse it to a confined concept of attacking midfielder POSITION.

    Usually these positions and roles go quite hand in hand as players advanced positions tend to have attacking roles. However, as JK tries to point out (if I now have understood you correctly) this is not always the case such as with Hendo.


    Just think about A. Pirlo. Technically, he is playing in CM position or even as DM, but I doubt that none of you will be claiming that he is just a defensive players. Even more extreme example is the libero position which was mastered by L. Matthaus. He basically played positionally as a central defender, but was still considered as an effective attacking players because his role was actually attacking despite of his position at the heart of the defence.



    In conclusion I would say that you are correct JK for saying that Hendo is playing in attacking midfielder ROLE although positionally he has been more of a central midfielder. The problem here was more of down to poor articulation making your argumentation convoluted rather than flaws in your argumentation.


    As a result I feel that the expectations of Hendo's contribution are not unrealistic, but I do feel that they come with a condition; if our players in attacking positions (Coutinho, Sterling, Sturridge, Origi etc.) will continue their poor collective form in terms of contribution to goals, the contribution should be expected from more deep-lying attacking players such as Hendo especially now that the has been given the privilege to captain the team. However, if the attacking line starts scoring again, the expectation would be a tad high unless we will be scoring goals just for fun and not care about defending the possible lead in the matches.

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  110. Hendo is limited but he is still the best box-to-box midfielder in our squad. Without the machine (hendo) we seriously get overrun in the midfield. If he could also score goals and assists then he might very well be next Stevie G. But we should accept his limitations.

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  111. Sounds superb! I'll definitely keep an eye peeled for it.

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  112. You're reminding me of a past favourite... Sharkdog, from 'Eek! The Cat'.

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  113. Seeing as he's on 22 this season. I don't think 25-30 is an unrealistic target.

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  114. Hendo is not a bona-fide AM like Couts, Lallana, Silva etc. Sometimes he plays there but more often he plays deeper or box to box.
    This goes back to that very robotic way of thinking you seem to have, as if football has no grey areas

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  115. Stan Dinaround2:09 pm, May 15, 2015

    Got the assist for the winning goal, and looked to be the best player on the pitch... Would be, based on these couple of performances, be a decent free signing.

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  116. He looks a top player. There are a few free agents this summer who would improve our squad should we play our cards right

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  117. Henderson does not create or score enough goals to be considered an AM and in honesty he does not have the class or quality to play that role effectively.
    In squad P Coutinho and A Lallana should both compete with one another for the AM Starting role for many years to come.
    But both players will need to create and score a lot more over next few years if they plan to become world class

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  118. Totally agree

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  119. So that's clear then he's an attacking midfielder playing central midfield with defensive responsibilities. Simples

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  120. If he/she has the character ; )

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  121. People criticise because they win.

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  122. Well, no. If Arsenal won the EPL, people would have no complaints. They're a respectable club who play to entertain. If Wenger had Mourinho's roster, he wouldn't be parking the bus at home against a 10 man PSG.

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  123. And you know what, Chelsea would possibly be in the final right now if Wenger was manager.

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