Brendan Rodgers is set to make his second defensive buy of the summer, with Liverpool reportedly set to announce the signing of Atletico Madrid right-back Javier Manquillo.
According to Spanish newspaper Mundo Deportivo today:
* Liverpool have agreed a 2-year loan deal for Manquillo.
* The deal includes an option to buy for €7.5m (£6m).
* Manquillo has a medical scheduled for tomorrow (5th August)
* The youngster said goodbye to his team-mates at 9am this morning.
Some info about 20-year old Manquillo:
* 6 appearances for Atletico.
* 18 appearances for various Spain youth teams.
* 2012: Part of Spain's European Under-19 Championship winning team.
* Madrid contract expires in 2016.
Atletico boss Diego Simeone believes Manquillo is destined for great things, and last season, he enthused:
"Manquillo [is in] a maturing stage. [he] is going to be a very important player for this team. The future is great but the present is very important and we want [him] to keep developing".
Yes, Manquillo is so 'important' that Simeone is letting him leave only months after making the above statement :-)
To be honest, I'm struggling to see the logic to this deal:
* With Flanagan, Johnson, Kelly, Robinson et al already at the club, are we to believe that a comparatively untested 20-year old is suddenly going to come in and go straight into the first team and usurp the aforementioned players?
* It seems unlikely, which begs the question, why sign Manquillo in the first place?
* Kelly, Robinson, Wisdom etc have been toiling for a few years and still haven't made a proper breakthrough, so the chances of Manquillo succeeding where they've failed seems slim.
* Even with Liverpool needing new full-backs, I can't see Manquillo getting regular game-time. If Tiago Ilori can't force his way into the team, what hope does the young Spaniard have?
* What is Rodgers' plan for Manquillo? He didn't have a plan with Ilori (as evidenced by sending him out on loan after only a few months), so is there a structured plan in place for the Spaniard's development?
I'd much rather see Liverpool sign an established right back capable of relegating Johnson to the bench, which is undoubtedly where he belongs. That said, having another option on the right could be a good thing, and if it motivates LFC's current right-backs to perform better, then the deal may ultimately be worth it.
Realistically, though, are Johnson and Flanagan going to feel under pressure from a player with only 6 games-worth of senior experience?
Author: Jaimie K
According to Spanish newspaper Mundo Deportivo today:
* Liverpool have agreed a 2-year loan deal for Manquillo.
* The deal includes an option to buy for €7.5m (£6m).
* Manquillo has a medical scheduled for tomorrow (5th August)
* The youngster said goodbye to his team-mates at 9am this morning.
Some info about 20-year old Manquillo:
* 6 appearances for Atletico.
* 18 appearances for various Spain youth teams.
* 2012: Part of Spain's European Under-19 Championship winning team.
* Madrid contract expires in 2016.
Atletico boss Diego Simeone believes Manquillo is destined for great things, and last season, he enthused:
"Manquillo [is in] a maturing stage. [he] is going to be a very important player for this team. The future is great but the present is very important and we want [him] to keep developing".
Yes, Manquillo is so 'important' that Simeone is letting him leave only months after making the above statement :-)
To be honest, I'm struggling to see the logic to this deal:
* With Flanagan, Johnson, Kelly, Robinson et al already at the club, are we to believe that a comparatively untested 20-year old is suddenly going to come in and go straight into the first team and usurp the aforementioned players?
* It seems unlikely, which begs the question, why sign Manquillo in the first place?
* Kelly, Robinson, Wisdom etc have been toiling for a few years and still haven't made a proper breakthrough, so the chances of Manquillo succeeding where they've failed seems slim.
* Even with Liverpool needing new full-backs, I can't see Manquillo getting regular game-time. If Tiago Ilori can't force his way into the team, what hope does the young Spaniard have?
* What is Rodgers' plan for Manquillo? He didn't have a plan with Ilori (as evidenced by sending him out on loan after only a few months), so is there a structured plan in place for the Spaniard's development?
I'd much rather see Liverpool sign an established right back capable of relegating Johnson to the bench, which is undoubtedly where he belongs. That said, having another option on the right could be a good thing, and if it motivates LFC's current right-backs to perform better, then the deal may ultimately be worth it.
Realistically, though, are Johnson and Flanagan going to feel under pressure from a player with only 6 games-worth of senior experience?
Author: Jaimie K
Is this yet a new Tiago Ilori again ? Cover for Flanno good but like alberto he is not a starter in A Madrid first team .
ReplyDeleteAssadi alberto aspas Tiago all bought same reason Future
Yes, a future that will not be at Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteI think this is a nothing to lose all to gain transfer. If it doesn't work out he goes back to Madrid and I doubt it has really cost us much. If it does work we've got a a young full back on the cheap. Having said that I would also like to see an experienced right back brought in and Johnson to be sold but don't see that happening this summer unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI think Alberto and Illori will make it eventually, but I agree the two As's should be booted.
ReplyDeleteNobody wanted Flano even on loan now watch him. Kelly don't have any future let's be honest. #bringreustoanfield
ReplyDelete#doesthisworkoutsidethetwittersphere ?
ReplyDeleteyou have replied just to get up top your not on mine or Jaimie point?
ReplyDeleteYeah, that may be so, but when you see Chelsea doing the same and selling players for profit who have little or no playing time at the club it seems to me like an easy way to make cash for the future. Seems like a good buisiness plan to me. Anyone agree with this?
ReplyDeleteAspas great profit
ReplyDeleteChelski were just greedy and were trying to buy players so nobody could get them just like Madrid. They have only sold their top players not the 20 something players on loan.
ReplyDeleteHave you seen this boys trademark behind the line run JK? He looks good, and is aggressive in the tackle. The thing with Flanners, Kelly, Robinson and Wisdom is that they are more defenders than modern full backs.
ReplyDeleteFlanners could come good, but I think that Manquillo definitely has something in attack better than the other youngsters. As for Johnson, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, and his lack of pace and losing of ball and attacking predictability have worked against him in the last 2 seasons on the whole. I for one think that if Manquillo is good enough, he could be pushing that right back spot come a good stretch into the season.
Spanish players have possession football in their blood so I think this could be a great piece of business, albeit not immediately impactful. Moreno on the other hand looks a gem and could have more of an immediate impact.
Lets not forget Flanners immediately competing with Glenda johnson at RB! So amped boys YNWA!
ReplyDeleteObviously not every player will not produce profit. Besides, Aspas has not been sold yet. He may well be if he has a good loan spell
ReplyDeleteYou seem to think bringing in a young player and then sending them out on loan is some sort of failure resulting from a lack of planning. I'd suggest it was always the plan to buy Ilori relatively cheaply (while young and raw), send him out on loan to gets lots of first team experience, and see how he develops. Surely this is not the worst idea in the world? I agree the Aspas and Assaidi buys were poor, but the plan there was different. Rodgers has said as much that Aspas was purchased as a squad player. Assaidi was a purchase by the club before Rodgers came in, and he may go to Stoke for a profit. Alberto seems to be coming good with Malaga. Great to see him making the most of his opportunity there.
ReplyDeleteSo you need more players
ReplyDeleteIf LFC has a successful track record in this area then I'd think differently, but the fact is that no young player signed by LFC has ever gone on loan then come back to establish himself in the first team.
ReplyDeleteI personally don't believe that Ilori was bought with the express intention of sending him out on loan.
#dontgetthepointofconsistentlyusinghashtags
ReplyDeleteAssaidi and Aspas will certainly not remain at Liverpool but I think it's a bit soon to rule out Alberto and Ilori. Both look as if they could be promising in the future.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you when you said in the article above that Rodgers didn't have a plan for Ilori, Rodgers always stated from early on that he was one for the future and that the plan was always to have Ilori at Liverpool for the first 6 months and then loan him out for the second part of last season. I'm not really sure why Rodgers would lie about that - he was directly quoted in the media and on the Liverpool website on more than 1 occasion.
I may be in the minority here also but I can see some logic in the Alberto purchase. I know from previous articles that you have argued that instead of purchasing Alberto, Suso should have been given game time but as we saw with the game time Alberto got, Suso may not have got much game time and I think he developed more being out on loan and playing more whilst we still had cover if needed in Alberto. I think Alberto's lack of playing time was more down to the outstanding form of other players allied to us exiting both cups early on and just having the league to focus on, and being in a position to challenge for top spot.
Fast forward a year to this summer and we now have Suso back with a decent amount of first team football under his belt and now it's Alberto's turn to get some experience. He scored for Malaga against Newcastle recently I think. Hopefully he can keep that going. I think one of the reasons Rodgers likes Alberto is his flexibility and ability to play in a number of positions.
#Ithinkitstheresultofsomesortofmisunderstoodandnotyetdiagnosedmentalillnessbutwhatreallykillsmeiswhenpeopleactuallysayhashtagasinthatpizzawashastagdelicious
ReplyDelete#Don'treallyhaveanythingtoaddjustwantedtogetinonthehashtagact
ReplyDeleteI think that last season, we were certain to sell Coates and Skrtel and Sakho and Illori were meant to be the replacements for them. But, we could not find any buyers for Coates and Skrtel upped his game. I think this was due to unexpected events. Now, they had 6 centre-backs in the squad. Sakho was bought for a hefty 18 mil and BR had to play him because he came from PSG for the sole reason of playing time. Illori was bought for a comparitively cheaper price and was probably told that he was for the future because of the number of CB's at the club and then sent out on loan. It was not poor planning but just an unexpected turn of events that lead to this happening. I believe that KT and Agger will move on in the near future and so will Coates leaving us with Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren and Illori which is pretty good to be fair. I think it is harsh to be critical of the buys but you can be critical of the timing of the buys because we should not have left it to the last minute to make these buys.
ReplyDeleteim with you Jk i cant see the point to the deal we have flanno ,glen ,and kelly and even wisdom for this spot and this kid is no better than any off them
ReplyDeleteWe have no seen him play so tough to judge. Johnson should be sold at all costs. kelly, though I like him will probably be sold but he is also predominantly a centre back. This season will be Flanno and Manquillo for the RB and Moreno/Enrique for the LB if everything goes to plan.
ReplyDeleteI do not get the point of Alberto. He is a good player but we have an even better player in Suso. What was the point of this signing when we have the same pedigree of player in our rank?
ReplyDeleteive heard it all before if johnson doesn't leave he will play the majority of games at RB, first off this kid ccouldnt make the AM team and second if hes that much a prospect why i they loaning him with a view to a sale why not just loan him out for a year
ReplyDeletealberto along with aspas are very average players
ReplyDeleteIt is a difficult one but is this one of those times when a manager signs two countrymen so the one more important player settles easier? It may be a part of the thinking. Flanno did a great job last season and hopefully he can progress further. I think the time is up for Kelly though. So Manquillo and Flanno pushing Johnson out of the starting 11 or making him up his game. Like Jaimie said this is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteAs for Ilori do we know for sure that the idea may not have always been to loan him out? There are several quotes from Rodgers talking about him being one for the future. So this being the case for the lad to get games he needed the loan. Perhaps we just wanted him before he was getting more attention from other clubs. It's moot anyway as all we can do is speculate.
they bought him for the now but realized he wasn't all that he was cracked up to be so then gave the guff that he was for the future you dont spend 7m on a player and loan him out 2 years
ReplyDeleteI do believe that Ilori was bought for the future with the intention of some loaning spells. How many young centre backs are starters at big clubs ... with the required abilities, experience is the key to master that position.
ReplyDeleteNext thing is, because loans didn't work out in the past (maybe the intention wasn't to get them experience at all, as to just try finding a buyer ... just a guess), doesn't mean they won't work nowadays ...
Different era - Benitez was never one to put his faith in youth, was he? Rodgers on the other hand is the complete opposite.
Personally, I think Ilori will be a fantastic future centre back for us.
Alberto has potential. Aspas is well below average.
ReplyDeleteI might have a look for the quotes in a sec but he did say more than once that he was a player for the future. You pay what ever you want for a player if you think it is worth it.
ReplyDelete#hashtagLiverpooltowinthePLandCL
ReplyDeletehes for the future means hes not good enough and hopefully we can sell him before the fans catch on that we have blew a heap load of money on a player who cant make the team
ReplyDeleteI would pay other teams to take Johnson off us. At least players like Aspas try and do not deliver the goods, Johnson jut wants to take his pay packet and do nothing on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteat whose expense 20m lovren or 17m sako if he is gonna come could why is rogers linked with buying evey cb on the planet we currently have 7
ReplyDeleteOr he doesn't have the required experience to be pushing others out of the first team, or he may need to bulk up a bit for the prem but has all the other attributes. When will "fans" catch on that second guessing everything that goes on with players is a touch arrogant. When all the info is at our disposal then we can say with surety. But right now it is like I say moot.
ReplyDeletewell it shows you how bad our defenders are because hes a nailed on starter imo
ReplyDeleteSo because Ibe is not a regular first team player and is one for the future it makes him not good enough irrespective of his price. If someone wants to buy Ibe how much will they have to pay?
ReplyDeleteAnd to suggest what we paid for Ilori is a heap of money. Are we in 1994 or 2014?
ever seen one of these multi million pound wonders come back to the club and succeed...i could buy your point if the club was awash with players who we have spent millions on coming back and nailing a spot ...where are they, where are all these prodigies we have bought for millions and loaned out its a fallacy.
ReplyDeleteSo opinions shouldn't be argued against on the context of lack of information? The "fans" thing was not justified and I'll edit.
ReplyDeleteI am not against this signing at all because I believe that Manquillo will turn out to be good. But, this was not what we were promised. THis was what BR said after the end of season:
ReplyDelete“What we do need to do to ensure we kick on. We need to ensure we continue with our thinking in terms of the types of players we’re going to bring in.We want to bring in players who are hungry. They must have the ambition to want to come in and succeed here.We need players who there can be no doubts about their quality.Those players who are coming in need to be capable starters. They have to be to the level that we require to perform. That is absolutely key for us this summer.”
Manquillo does not fit that bill and it is the same thing from last season where we are singing players in blind hope that they will become a Sturridge or a Coutinho. Where are all the "capable starters" where " there can be no doubt of their quality". Only player there is Lovren. The other ones either not capable starters or there are doubt over their quality.
We have a relatively new manager so harping on about the past is completely irrelevant in this instance.
ReplyDeleteits a heap of money if he never dons a Liverpool jersey..as for ibe i would keep him its pointless loaning him out then buying crap like aspas to replace him we are on a loaning merry go round with crap coming in and crap going out it serves no point
ReplyDeleteLike Tom says we have a new way of doing things. It is like Jaimies argument doesn't stand. We have a new manager, new coaching staff, new recruitment staff (and strategy) as well as relatively new owners. To see the results you want to see we will need at least a couple of seasons. Judging these set of people on the results of an old set just doesn't work.
ReplyDeleteall these 7m add up why not just but the real deal for 15-20 and stick him straight in
ReplyDeletemayb GJ will playing LB again this season
ReplyDeleteWhat you and what you get in a financially doped market are two different things. With much more money in the pot there will be more money demanded for payers, especially if the clubs you want to buy from have also benefited from that pot of money.
ReplyDeleteDid we not do that as well?
ReplyDeleteI understand that but we have Sakho who cost 15M and Lovren who cost 20M so I don't really understand your point. There is not point buying a 3rd/4th choice CB for 15-20M we simply cannot afford it.
ReplyDeleteDo you know how many young players Chelsea loaned out last season? Go do some research but I can tell you now It will put us to shame. They are forever signing top young talent and if they make the grade they stay. If they do not make the grade then are moved on for a profit.
ReplyDeleteThat is just the way it is. What we paid for Ilori is peanuts. Most are having a hernia about Borini but if he gets sold it will be at a profit.
but when you add up all the fees for the dross we buy why not why not rotate 3 or 4 world class defenders than have 2 and several crap ones
ReplyDeleteBut Aspas barely played and Ibe got games. Is playing not better for the player to progress? Thus why loaning can (in theory) work. All transfers are a gamble and signing young players perhaps an even bigger gamble. But these gambles have to be made. We are not signing worldies but can hopefully help players become worldies. But to displace a starter in the team if you are very young is hard. Proving yourself elsewhere and getting a chance in the first team at a latter stage in your career is better than spending big on that same player you didn't buy as a youngster is it not?
ReplyDeletewe are not chelsea they are being bank rolled...if money was no object i wouldn't care but we have ltd funds so we must not waste them Liverpool have been grossly incompetent with the money available
ReplyDeletewhere is the logic on loaning a player out and buying a player for 7m to replace him who isnt as good as him
ReplyDeleteRotation of defenders is barely ever done and for good reason. To call Ilori dross and crap suggests to me you haven't seen him play. Is he a worldy? Not yet no but with time he could be very good. He is not currently crap or dross.
ReplyDeleteif you have transfer acumen there are players out there ...sturidge for 12m is testament to that
ReplyDeleteAspas was signed because Borini was loaned out. They are both rubbish and it now looks like we will break even in total for both of them so I have no problem with this at all.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that was the intention. I am sure they thought they were buying a player who could challenge for a place if not be a regular starter. A good option from the bench. He wasn't.
ReplyDeleteI have already explained the rationale in loaning out a young player. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Exactly. There is no logic whatsoever, but some fans will still try and justify it as they just can't bear to accept that Rodgers regularly makes transfer mistakes.
ReplyDeleteTake last season, for example:
* Suso sent on loan; £7m spent on Alberto, who is also an attacking-mid. Utter incompetence, and a total waste of money.
* Borini sent on loan; £8m spent on Aspas. Again, utter incompetence.
* £18m spent on Sakho, to give LFC FOUR senior centre-backs (Agger, Toure, Skrtel, Sakho), and in a season with no European football, Rodgers then spends £7m on Ilori, who is then promptly sent on loan. Pointless transfer.
the point is that we could have had a quality player last year who may have been the difference between us not winning the league
ReplyDeleteThat is partially true but I would argue that Sturridge is the exception rather than the rule.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that was the intention. I am sure they thought they
ReplyDeletewere buying a player who could challenge for a place if not be a regular
starter. A good option from the bench. He wasn't.
I have already explained the rationale in loaning out a young player. The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Forwards and midfielders are rotated so I would agree to an extent in those positions but as Greg mentioned defenders aren't rotated, a first choice defensive line will remain as it is all season barring injuries, suspensions or severe lack of form.
ReplyDeleteBut we will be making money if we sell Borini so what is grossly incompetent about that?
ReplyDeleteSince Comolli has not been in the picture can you point out players signed after his departure where we have sold at a loss?
What about the benefit LFC has lost as a result of wasting £19m on those two? You and others conveniently ignore that.
ReplyDeleteThe club may make its money back, but the on-field *benefit* LFC could've gained by spending the money wisely is the issue here.
If Rodgers had bought the right players, LFC might be league champions right now. Instead, Liverpool received zero football-related benefit from that £19m outlay.
The future will be this kid and flanno competing for the right back slot. Prob from next season onward. Bed him in this season in preparation for next season when Johnson leaves. I expect Kelly and Robinson to either be sold or loaned.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to the Ilori comparison, the competition at centre half is far greater than it is at right back
Everyone bangs on about Sturridge and Coutinho being examples of buying players relatively cheap who can be stars but this isn't a common thing. The majority flop and for good reason as their previous clubs have been willing to let them go for relatively small fees.
ReplyDeletethe position is irrelavant the point im making is that this money could have bought a world class player who would improve the team ..
ReplyDeleteHe's just another name on the training sheet. Nothing more. No one expects great things for him this season and if he doesn't work out then we won't sign him once the loan is done. He's barely even worth mentioning so I'm a bit suspicious of all the attention he's getting. Signings like this usually go totally under the radar and deservedly so. I think a few journos and fans are making a bit of noise about this because they're desperate to see Liverpool do something in the transfer market, make a significant move for a wing back. This is NOT that move and Manquillo will just come into the squad and make up the numbers. Best case scenario he'll play 4-5 games and otherwise fill out the reserves, come up to speed with English football. If he really raises his game to another level we might see something and Rodgers is the perfect manager to give him a chance. Otherwise it's just another young player being given a chance to learn and maybe impress if he grows into his talent.
ReplyDeleteThere is no evidence to suggest Ilori is not being handled according to a careful plan. He had 6 months under the manager's eye then 6 months at loan. To me that seems like a perfectly reasonable plan for a young player who may not be ready for first team action. Why can't a loan spell be part of a plan? You seem convinced that it was some kind of mistake but it's relatively common for young players to be bought and loaned out. Chelsea do it quite a bit, so do Arsenal and United. Sending him out on loan has almost certainly made him a better player so your assertion that it's indicative of a mistake is quite presumptuous and I think incorrect.
If we achieve CL football over the next season or 2 I think you will start to see this happening. At the moment we had a tiny squad which needed quite a few additions. Thus we cannot spend 30-40M on 3-4 players when we needed 8-10 players.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, I'm not going to address your points because you have quite clearly morphed into a Rodgers apologist. No matter what the issue, you - like Logan - come up with endless rationalisations and excuses. That's your right, of course, but there's no point discussing things with fans who have an obvious agenda of automatically championing everything Rodgers does.
ReplyDeleteDid you see the players we tried and failed to sign? It is not like we were not signing then due to money spent on Ilori. The two are not connected. We still would have had trouble purchasing a worldy for reasons unconnected to what young players were bought. An we still signed a more experienced more expensive player as a CB anyway. So it definitely didn't impact on us buying the player.
ReplyDeletePostion does matter. That is what defenders don't get rotated all that much by any manager. Look at all the top teams in any league and you will see a settled defence.
But fantasy scenarios and reality are different. Lots of players move evrey window due to not working out at clubs. It is just the way of things.
ReplyDeleteIf we hadn't have signed Aspas last year and didn't have Borini we would have had 2 strikers, one who is injury prone, the other who was liable to get a ban at anytime. We had to have some other back up option and it seemed silly to spend big money on someone who was hardly going to get games. When available Sturridge and Suarez were always going to start every game.
ReplyDeleteTHe thing is im not actually knocking Rogers as a manger, i think he got the best out of what he had last year , but the fact remains hes wasted a lot of money if he could improve that aspect of his tenure we would have a great manager
ReplyDeleteWhy should Rodgers live and die by the past success or failure of other managers? The whole reason he's here at the club is because he does things differently and in a number of areas that's working pretty well. What has happened over the past x number of years really has no bearing on what might happen again in the future. He's a different manager, these are different players, it's a different time in football.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Suso will show some quality this season, play a few games and be another player to come back from a successful loan spell. Ilori is back in the squad, he's not already been shipped out somewhere else, so maybe he too is going to get a shot. Borini might not have made it in the team but in terms of getting the best value out of a player the loan to Sunderland was the best idea, he's now going to make us a small profit. It's not all total failure. A loan spell is not necessarily the end of a player's career at a club any more.
as far as im concerned if you spend big on a player and loan him out its a failure as that money could have been used to buy a player who would have improved the team surely you can see that point
ReplyDeleteSo by your logic you wouldn't call SAF a great manager because he signed Djemba Djemba, Kleberson, Bebe, Veron, Anderson, Smalling...the list goes on and on. Transfers that don't work out are part of football whether you like it or not.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I agree in the sense that Rodgers has made mistakes in the transfer market but luckily they have not been colossal mistakes. This season is the main one to assess Rodgers' acumen in the market. The Aspas' and Albertos were all low-key and low consequence signings where the club did not suffer much because of the relatively meagre amount paid for them. All managers make mistakes in the market. Red Nose has bought Bebe,Taibi, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Veron and numerous others. Give him some more time to learn. A man who has never made a mistake in his life never tried anything new.
ReplyDeleteI may be wrong but i think the point that Jk is trying to convey is that if Liverpool had a history and ethos built into the club where we had made millions in this area or produced world class players via this strategy it wouldn't seem a problem but we dont
ReplyDeleteTo spend money and buy some unproven young players that are not contributing to the cause of the club is grossly incompetent. Now comes back to what is the cause of the club, to make money by buying young players cheap and selling a little higher after some time or to prep the squad to consistently qualify for UCL? We have limited funds to start off with and a squad depth that is thin compared to the other top EPL clubs so I do not think it's right to compare ourselves with Chelsea.
ReplyDeletebut if you spread them over his tenure and factor in what hes won its hardly worth a mention BR has a list nearly as long and hes been at the club 2 years and won nothing plus when you factor in the money he got off ronaldo and others it pretty much evens out
ReplyDeleteI'm certainly with you over this point. Players that are not contributing to the club in terms of positive results on pitch is deemed as a failed transfer.
ReplyDeleteWow. Well done. You've completely shut down an argument because someone has a different opinion to you.
ReplyDeleteYou know what my agenda is? Arguing with you. I disagree with you. I very often take a polar view to what you write and so what? You can't handle that? You have to label me as some kind of apologist? Just because I pose some alternative suggestions (yes, they are suggestions, whatever you think I'm just speculating, just like you) you have to resort to attacking me because you can't even defend your own point of view. What a cop out.
And you're seriously saying that he only spent 4.5 months instead of 6? You have a go at me, questioning who I am, and then offer that as your sad excuse for a retort? It's not 6 months, it's 4.5?
I'm not sure what's happened to you lately JK, you used to enjoy a good argument, exchange different views with different people. I'm not even saying anything about you, not labelling you as negative or having a go at you but you don't even have the gumption to try and explain why I'm so obviously wrong. I suppose I should take it as a compliment, my responses have you so whipped you can't even formulate a response.
LFC are stocking promising talent - just like Chelsea. This has proven a viable business model over time for Chelsea. The theory is that over time a few will develop and can be sold for profit while a chosen one or two will evolve into quality starters. It is a long term strategy for a sustainable team and the practice pays for itself over time. An interesting article about the Chelsea system was written a few ago. Of course, it doesn't appeal to a segment of the fan base looking for immediate so called marquee signings. Just a difference in approach.
ReplyDeleteSo players like Lukaku and Coutois are failed transfers for Chelsea? One is probably going to come back and take over in goal and be one of the best keepers in the league. The other made them a big profit. That is the kind of failure I would like for us to be honest and only time will tell what will happen with our players.
ReplyDeleteI agree that all managers make mistakes, but managers like Ferguson who consistently win the league have more leeway to make these mistakes, for the simple reason that his transfer errors invariably don't matter.
ReplyDeleteIf Rodgers was winning trophies, then Alberto/Aspas deals etc wouldn't matter that much either. His success would show that, overall, the transfer policy is a success.
Last season was, in some ways, a fluke, IMO. Liverpool got lucky by having two strikers who scored 20+ goals each (a phenomenon that very rarely occurs). Plus, with fewer games to get through, the players had much more recovery time than usual, and less overall physical demand to deal with.
You're right - this season we'll see what Rodgers is made of, but again, his transfers are a disappointment, and I doubt many of them will make a significant impact.
i dont have a problem per say with loaning players out i have a problem with loaning a player out and filling his spot with a 7m player who isnt as good ...there can be no logic in replacing a player with an inferior player and paying for the privalage
ReplyDeleteSure, but the club itself is only a collection of the people that make it up. The general manager, the manager, the coaching staff, the players, even the owners ... they are all different to what we had 10 years and even 20 years ago. I'm just not sure how the history of the club is relevant when the people who didn't get anything out of loan players in the past are not there any more. I'm not at all suggesting it's working brilliantly or that Rodgers is some kind of transfer genius, but he shouldn't be haunted by the ghosts of past managers. It might work, it might not. I think each player should be judged individually and particularly when they've had a year or two at the club to prove themselves.
ReplyDeleteNow you sound like those who call you BR hater...
ReplyDeleteSo that is presumably Suso and Alberto you on about?
ReplyDeletePlease, get over yourself. That you disagree with me is not the issue. I have no problem with that, and it's just ridiculously lazy to use that as an excuse.
ReplyDeleteNo argument has been 'shut down' - you've stated your view, and others are free to engage in discussion with you on the points you've raised.
If you think being called a Rodgers 'apologist' is being 'attacked', then I suggest you grow a thicker skin.
I don't waste my time arguing with people who have an inflexible view of LFC, which you (IMO) do. As I noted before, no matter what the issue being discussed, you will defend Rodgers, and come up with endless justifications to champion his decisions.
It's not just with me; I've noticed that in your response to lots of different posters. And as I said already, that's perfectly fine - that's your right, but I'm not going to waste time debating issues with posters who argue a certain point of view just to further an agenda (as I perceive it) to defend the manager (as opposed to arguing it because they sincerely believe what they're saying).
People disagree with me every day, and I have no problem with that, but the majority disagree from a stance of sincerity, not from a 'I must defend Rodgers at every turn' agenda.
The only thing I can say is that it was good for Suso, who is now back in the squad a much better player. If it was good for him then it's also good for us. Alberto has a point to prove but maybe it will also work for him. I don't expect it to but I also didn't expect either player to contribute to the club last year, and they didn't. He's gambling with bit-part players.
ReplyDeletei think most people are getting the wrong end of the stick its purely a view on transfer policy but lets be honest we have been wasting money for 20 years its almost ingrained into the club so much so that if you waste 7m on a player it just gets a shrug of the shoulders
ReplyDeleteWe didn't sell Suarez for 50M more than we paid for him no? So going with your argument we have covered all losses for quite a while with Suarez's sale. The first year or so BR was at LFC I think he overly relied on the recruitment department rather than his own instinct. I don't think that is the case anymore. He has had time to settle and realise what this team requires. Ok we may have overspent on paper but if they suit us then who cares.
ReplyDeleteTwo years at a ruin, to be honest. A ruin that had so many holes and unneeded rocks that everybody would just tear it down and build a new building. Yet BR used some old stones, some new ones, added some other unneeded- but we are where we belong in no time.
ReplyDeleteSo if you compare Ferguson and BR in their first two years(and add into account that it was a veery different time back than), I think that Br is better.
alberto and aspas fee similar to the sturidge and tino fee bit time players with big money fees ...ill be honest its that approach to mon
ReplyDeleteAs Greg said it was pointless transfer, but BR THOUGHT Aspas was better, and was WRONG.
ReplyDeleteI think it is also how people are seeing and labeling things. If you buy seeds you don't say you wasted them because nothing has grown in the first few months. Time is the only way of telling what we get from this crop.
ReplyDeletetime isn't a commodity you have in football ...if you are not in the Cl tour goosed
ReplyDeleteThe biggest mistake Rodgers made last season was an inability to sign anyone during the January transfer window. Imagine having a Konoplyanka or a Shaqiri come in instead of a Victor Moses come in when we were losing against Chelsea. I believe that this season we will struggle more because teams will be more vary of not making the same mistakes they did last season but I would also expect more goals from Hendo, Coutinho,Sterling and added goals from Lallana and Markovic. If you read my comment below, I am disappointed because these signings are not what was promised as what BR said in his interview.
ReplyDeleteWe are in the CL!
ReplyDeleteSuarez, Borini, Agger cost a lot.
ReplyDeleteIbe Suso, Flano. Coates is deep.
Both lists go on, by the way..
Couldn't disagree more with your comment. Buying young, unproven players with potential is exactly the way we should be supplementing the squad. Buying average mid 20s players i.e. Aspas is grossly incompetent as it was quite obviously clear he was never good enough for LFC. However, of all the signings BR has made he is the only one that really falls into this category. So one 7M pound fail is hardly a big issue.
ReplyDeleteMy friend, it's a case by case basis. Why not ask ourselves is it fair to compare ourselves with Chelsea in terms of money available and squad depth to mount creditable challenge? Your comparison sounds like 2 investors, one rich one poor, the rich one diversed a small portion of his money to those high-risk-high-gains financial products whereas the poor one tried hard to emulate the rich man by investing his limited resources into the same high-risk-high-gains financial products instead of trying to build up his portfolio steadily by investing in blue chip assets. Worst of all, the poor investor does not have the same astute acumen as the rich investor when it comes to investment.
ReplyDeleteIt depends on the price of the incoming young player. The combined cost of Ilori, Luis Alberto and Aspas (not really young) is more than 20 mil pounds. When we are not playing in the UCL, I do not think we have the luxury of spending 20 mil pounds on 3 young players where none of these 3 make positive contributions to the club's results on pitch. Suso came from Cadiz and Ibe came from Wycombe Wanderers, sorry fees were unknown but I'm positively sure they are low, probably in the 1-2 mil pounds region. When we have limited financial resources without UCL's prize money, spending 20 mil pounds on these 3 players is a reckless act.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Don't expect a response from this guy as you make far too much sense for that.
ReplyDeleteim talking about english teams in general utd will improve this year and dont have the distraction of Europe we will have to perform with as it stands one world class injury prone striker. we need players who can perform now not players who may perform in 3 years
ReplyDeleteIbe has come back to Liverpool a better player precisely because he went out on loan and got some first team football.
ReplyDeleteI can see that you've invented some view of me in your head. That's disappointing because it's quite true that all I really do is take an opposing viewpoint to you on most issues. If you could deal with that it really does make for good discussion, but you seem to be letting some constructed personality get in the way. If you're really not interested then the reasonable thing to do would be to just not respond but it's twice now in recent times that you're chosen to put forward your view on who you think I am. That says very little about me, it says volumes about you and your need to put people in boxes and label them.
ReplyDeleteLet me be clear: I don't have an agenda to defend Rodgers. There are plenty examples of me unashamedly taking note of his failings. If anything I have an agenda to disagree with you. The mantra of your blog is "critical realism". If you ask my personal view, which I don't usually need to put forward, I think that's just an excuse for miserable people to have a good old fashioned whine to try and feel a bit better about themselves. I find it depressing and pointless and the idea that it's actually helpful is just not something I subscribe to. If I was to have a blog about Liverpool I suppose my mantra would be "understanding the club". I'm a curious person, I like to understand how things and people work, and for that reason you'll often see that I prefer to pose explanations, ideas that allow decisions to make sense. I'd love to have that behind the scenes view, to see all the complex workings of what happens and finally have answers to some of the questions all fans have about the clubs they love. Just like you prefer to be critical, that's how I prefer to be: curious.
Clearly enough you do have an issue with that. You claim that it's my agenda that bothers you but I don't have an agenda, I can assure you of that, so what truly bothers you is just the perspective I genuinely choose to take. It bothers you to the point where you don't just ignore what I write, you specifically make a point of not responding to it and telling me why. That's odd JK, other people don't really do that. You do it a lot. You put people in boxes. You make up straw men like "Rafa worshippers" or "Suarez worshippers" or "Rodgers apologists". But these people don't exist. They're just people who don't agree with you. You turn them into something other than that so that you're more comfortable dismissing them, ignoring them, not having to bother with what they say. If you admit it or not, that's exactly what you do, time and time again.
Waste of place
ReplyDeletehe said we won't sign players for the sake of it and he is doing it right now
we have Flanno right now and he enjoyed good form last season
we have McLaughlin who is international player
the right back position is not priority for us right now , someone like Rues is
A case by case basis is exactly how it should be seen. But to assume to know the outcome of these investments now is unfair. There is a difference between a waste and an investment that hasn't yet matured.
ReplyDeleteLike I keep saying as long as one doesn't impact on the other why not have both. We signed Sakho and now Lovren even after signing Ilori so we did both. We were after Mhkitarian, Willian, Costa after signing Alberto and Aspas. We didn't sign those players but that wasn't because we had signed the others.
ReplyDeleteI agree we need a striker but that has nothing to do with signing Ilori or this RB. Once Johnson is off the payroll I expect us to sign a first choice RB if this lad or Flanno don't make it.
Dani Alves seem like a very much possible solution. Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteUnless they find new homes for Johnson and Kelly no.
ReplyDeleteWell I think Kelly won't be around this season and having Alves and Enrique in the starting line up with Flanno and GJ as back ups is the kind of depth we are talking about all summer?
ReplyDeleteYou make the transfer business seem so simplistic.
ReplyDeleteGo make a list of all the 'first team ready' or experienced players we have wasted money on going year after year after year and we go on to pay them ridiculous wages and then get moved on at losses.
Pot kettle black.
doesnt excite me really, I think we've got good cover here with johnson, flanno and kelly, and even the new lad stewart. id say just get a left back and be done with it, but a loan signing doesnt hurt!
ReplyDeleteThe major sticking point is GJS on big money and i am not sure they want to pay him that to sit on the bench, while Flanagan hardly gets the game time he needs, then what do we do with Manquillo.
ReplyDeleteBarcelona will want to make a fair amount of money on him. Add his wages and it becomes a very expensive exercise. FSG do not do deals like this.
ReplyDeleteI raised the same issues, the other day. Seems no one is bothered about this deal.
ReplyDeleteThink Manquilo is a mistake, AND THAt Flanno will prove himself better. Still, 5 fullbacks with all competitions and very possible injuries isn't too much...
ReplyDelete5 right backs are.
ReplyDeleteI think they just want to offload him- same as GJ and us, with DA being far better but Barca having more options.. First offer is reportedly 5 mill..
ReplyDeleteEnrique left. GJ can play left(even better than on right), so can Flanno, possibly Alves..
ReplyDeleteYouve also forgotten Moreno seems silly to have a heap of fullbacks when we may enter the season with 2 centre forwards.
ReplyDeleteUnrelated:
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know how exactly Markovic is injured or how long he will be sidelined?
Adding a player of Alves' age to a squad that has Johnson, Kelly, Flanagan and Manquillo all competing for the RB spot is not a good idea at all.
ReplyDeleteIf we got rid of Johnson sure but as it is nobody is welling to take him as he earns too much.
We will just be hemorrhaging the wage bill if we ass Alves.
with our scatter gun transfer policy nothing surprises me...we could enter the season with no CF and 10 goalies and it wouldnt raise an eyebrow
ReplyDeleteI thought you meant two in starting line up..
ReplyDeleteWell, two is enough in my opinion with such a creative and versatile midfield. Just hoping for injurie free season for the best striker in the EPL we have..
unfortunate typo, mate. i generally don't approve of sentences that contain both hemorrhaging and ass.
ReplyDeleteYeah I fixed it.
ReplyDeleteManquillo is on loan.
ReplyDeletelike ive stated earlier welcome to the crazy world of the lfc transfer saga where everything and anything is possible i really havny a clue where we are going
ReplyDeleteI still hope we will miracleously offload GJ, or just bear with his wages for another year.. Maybe all those fullbacks we are conected to are a message for him..
ReplyDeleteThat is why Alves is just another form of lazy journalism.
ReplyDeleteFSG do not give out bumper contracts to new signings.
If Sturridge goes down then you are using your plan b as your only front man or use a false number 9 that doesn't sound real promising.
ReplyDeletei wouldnt put my mortgage on that
ReplyDeleteThat is why I think it is a mistake. If he is good he is gone, if he isn't he just took minutes from Flanno and conceeded couple of goals in the meantime...
ReplyDeleteJohnson's contract ends at the end of the season. If we sell him now we must pay his 'loyalty bonus'.
ReplyDeleteI think the club will just hang on and let him leave at the end of the season without having to pay him a penny..
I am hopelessly romantic, Lambert sounds so promissing to me...
ReplyDeleteWell you have no positive outlook on LFC anyway.
ReplyDeleteI like Lambert but would not want him to carry the side for half a season or anything like that.
ReplyDeleteBut Rodgers is after attacking full backs which Manquillo is. Flanno is very good defender but not the quickest and also not very attack minded but I would definitely keep Flanno.
ReplyDeleteSo is Alves. So bring DA instead of Moreno for a smaller fee and pay bigger wages - it still equates to less.
ReplyDeleteAnd Manquilo can be Aspas of the year, I don't care...
Half a season? Come on, bit more optimism, we are discussing an injury that still didn't happen.. I
ReplyDeleteknow what you are saying, but I wouldn't bring a striker just to make numbers as BR said..
Well it could happen and in life one of the great sayings is those that fail to plan, plan to fail.
ReplyDeleteSo believe in plan B...
ReplyDeleteI think the Moreno deal is all but announced at this point.
ReplyDeleteno we will do that with the defenders instead
ReplyDeleteOk, adio Dani Alves, hope Moreno is the real deal..
ReplyDeleteHa... Hopefully we wont, but probably we will...
ReplyDeletedo we have a plan A
ReplyDeleteYou are not getting it it 5 right backs means bugger all if there is no flexibility up front and depth in forward options.
ReplyDeleteIt leaves you in flexible and lets face it goals win matches and having a team of creators means nothing if you have no one finishing the job.
Everything on me that can be crossed is currently doing so. Let's hope it works out.
ReplyDeleteOh, come on...
ReplyDeleteim just playing the heel orme for fun
ReplyDeleteAlves is on a reported £5.5m a season.
ReplyDeleteWhen you move at the age of 31 you do not move for less but for more.
Let's say he asks for £7m per season and a four year contract. That would be £28m over four years on wages alone excluding bonuses etc. Plus there is no resale value either.
That is why FSG are not in favour of deals like this.
But we do have players that will 90 goals this season.
ReplyDeleteWho they must be way better than Suarez.
ReplyDeleteI figured. But weird kind of fun...
ReplyDeleteA team of good players is better than Suarez.
ReplyDeletewhats the saying never a true word said in jest
ReplyDeletethats if we had a team full of good players we have a team with some good some average and some poor
ReplyDeleteHad to google it.. Jest, doesn't sound like a real word...
ReplyDeleteVery good, and extraordinary players...
ReplyDeleteBut you said players that will get 90 goals for the season .
ReplyDeletewell mingo is an extraordinary goali especially the cant kick a ball part we also have a lot of extraordinary defenders who cant defend
ReplyDeleteApparently we are again including Suso in the deal.
ReplyDeleteOK take Aspas out of the mix as like you say he is young and improvement not as expected. So we are left with two players costing approximate 11-13 million. Now that is not all that much money really. Especially as we can talk about older players who cost much more and added very little. Now the club are ok with loaning these players out and still pursued other options for the that season. So the purchase of those players didn't actually affect us going after those players. Now if we assume the owners were alright with this scenari and the manager was ok with why would you be bothered by it? Presumably the club made the decision based on the idea that we may not have CL again this year and perhaps it may take time to get it. In which time a young very promising player gets better and better and gets a lot of attention. By this time lots of big clubs are taking a look and the lad has more options. We have seen in scenarios like this we are not players first choice. Now if he doesn't come good yes it was a waste of money that didn't actually affect us reaching our goals as we had other options in those positions and were still willing to buy other players for that position. We did well without them getting back in the CL. If we end up having wasted the money on those two players then it is a relatively small amount and CL money makes it less of an issue. But if they do fulfill a potential and become much much better players then it is a success. Truth is we probably won't make more than about a 6 million loss combined on both if worst comes to worst, but if they become first team players then we have essentially made a profit. To me this really shouldn't be that big a deal.
ReplyDeleteAspas is another story all together.
we have wasted money ill grant you that but which players made the most impact last year apart from sterling...hendo,suarez , sturridge,skirtal, and to some extent tino and a few others these where all ready to go players if kenny had played hendo in the right position ( another thing we consistantly dont do as a club ) he would have been better,
ReplyDeleteSo are you saying you are a wind up merchant?
ReplyDeleteNot sure what you are trying to say here.
ReplyDeleteSkrtel was never a hit in his first season. Sterling showed promise when he broke into the first team but was very wet behind the ears. Henderson found it difficult to carry the transfer fee.
Almost all players will need a season to settle and then improve from there.
Jest is a form of saying something in a joking manner and as you suggest, there is not much of that going on...
ReplyDeletesometimes im serious sometimes im light hearted but im not in it to wind people up thats not the way i operate
ReplyDeleteWell i do not see where your comments are in jest either.
ReplyDeletethats funny logan because i read your comments and think the opposite haha
ReplyDeletecurses!
ReplyDeleteB Rodgers or I Ayre have faffed around with key signings.
ReplyDeleteG Johnson(29) was abyzmal last season, but is the best right back we have at club. So no matter how poor he is or gets skinned and someone crosses from cross he is back in starting line up week after if he injury and suspension free.
B Rodgers from last month should have signed: S Aurier(21) Of Toulouse to come and displace G Johnson(29) from our side, But B Rodgers did not go for him and now PSG have scooped him up for £8-£9M.
B Rodgers has needed class good Gk to keep S Mignolet(25) on his toes and to keep him motivated hungry and ready, so K Navas(27) Of Levante, B Ochoa(29) A free Agent Or M Vorm(30) Of Swansea should have been brought to the club 3 weeks ago but due to B Rodgers and I Ayre's lack lustre approaches we have still not found a class, quality GK to compete with S Mignolet(25).
This season Arsenal and Man City have brought in a class quality GK to compete with Their number 1, Whereas Chelsea have recalled Courtois(22) back from his loan at Athletico Madrid.
Stevie G is what?
ReplyDelete--------
ReplyDeletebig and he's f***ing hard.
ReplyDeleteCaptain fantastic and still one of the most complete midfielders ever. He ain't even a freaking defensive midfielder yet some still manage to have a dig at him.
ReplyDeleteAs the Pivot, we will struggle to find a player as good as Gerrard.
Oh, he is to slow. Yawn.
Captain fantastic and still one of the most complete midfielders ever. He ain't even a freaking defensive midfielder yet some still manage to have a dig at him.
ReplyDeleteAs the Pivot, we will struggle to find a player as good as Gerrard at this point of time.
This post went for moderation by the way. The last word starting with Y is what stopped it from going through.
ReplyDeleteMind boggling.
No, it's not mind-boggling - using that word is posts is a form of sniping; it's antagonistic, and adds nothing to any discussion/debate.
ReplyDeleteBut why did you then make the post containing the Y word public?
ReplyDeleteI for one like to read your comments on here. Always explained and rational, never over the top ;)
ReplyDeleteOften when the team performs beyond expectation it is seen as a fluke and people find thousands of reasons to back that assumption. But when the team underacheives the blame often lies at the manager's feet.
ReplyDeleteJust something I've noticed and that I fail to understand.
He's better than Frank Lampard...and statistically better than Arturo Vidal too.
ReplyDeleteWhat was it?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Rodgers is scared of making a big call in the transfer market, he seems to shy away from big names imho. I honestly think he needs to bring in a big name striker, somebody who will have the whole of the premier league teams, stand up and take note, then maybe we could all start believing in Rodgers and FSG this forthcoming season.
ReplyDeleteKelly already has a home, it's the physio room.
ReplyDeleteYes they will.
ReplyDelete