Liverpool have reportedly agreed a deal to sign Lille striker Divock Origi, and Simon Mignolet seems sure that the 'exciting' 19-year old will be a hit in the Premier League. Anfield legend Alan Hansen is not convinced, though, and he's warned his old club to be wary of signing the youngster.
According to The Mirror, Liverpool have 'agreed terms' with Origi, and tonight, The Independent claims that the Reds have agreed a £10m transfer fee with Lille, with the deal expected to be completed this week.
In his Telegraph column on Friday, Hansen seemed less than enthused with the prospect of Origi signing for Liverpool. He noted:
"Origi has a long way to go before being the finished article. He has genuine pace, but he is also raw and displayed some wayward finishing against the Americans. He is young and has potential, but you cannot ignore his rawness".
Is Hansen subtly warning LFC against signing Origi? Reading between the lines, it certainly sounds like it to me.
This may seem hard to believe, but I genuinely want to be enthusiastic about LFC's transfers. I'd love to write an article praising Rodgers for trying to sign a genuinely exciting player, but unfortunately, it's increasingly difficult to get excited about the manager's transfer choices. This particular deal, for instance, is Tiago Ilori all over again:
* Sign a young, promising player (with no hope of first team action) for mid-level fee.
* Stick him in the youth set-up for a few months.
* At some point, realise that he's not going to get any games for the first team.
* Farm him out on loan for the rest of the season.
In Origi's case, there's talk that he'll immediately be loaned back to Lille, which begs the question, why sign him in the first place? Where's the fire? Spending £10m doesn't help Liverpool *this season*, just like spending £7m on Ilori didn't help the club last season.
Some will argue that Origi and Ilori are players 'for the future', and that sounds like a great idea, but based on LFC's transfer history, the historical probability of those two becoming first team regulars is slim-to-none. Consider this fact: In LFC's entire history, no young player has ever come back from a loan spell and become an established first team player.
If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me.
Things can, of course, change, but this is the ingrained culture of the club, and it doesn't just change overnight. It's quite simple: if you're good enough, you're old enough, and players - irrespective of age - who are capable of making a long-term impact on the first team do not get farmed out on loan. Raheem Sterling is a prime example of this.
On a related note: If Origi signs, and inevitably goes out on loan, that will make it £38m worth of players bought by Rodgers who then ended up on loan (Borini, Assaidi, Ilori, Alberto, Origi), which represents one-third of LFC's paid transfers under Rodgers.
That's £38m not being utilised for the benefit of LFC's onfield progress, and it's £38m that could've been spent on two experienced, top class players capable of making an impact *now* (or last season).
With four competitions to play for next season, and a squad conspicuously light on players with much-needed European experience, I don't see how this is an effective transfer strategy.
It really is quite maddening. I wish I could just stick my head in the sand, and peddle the 'trust the manager' party-line like so many others, but unfortunately, the reality of the situation (and LFC's transfer history) always gets in the way.
I apologise for taking a realistic - and yes, critical - approach to transfers, but I fail to see a credible alternative that doesn't involve being massively disingenuous.
Author: Jaimie K
According to The Mirror, Liverpool have 'agreed terms' with Origi, and tonight, The Independent claims that the Reds have agreed a £10m transfer fee with Lille, with the deal expected to be completed this week.
In his Telegraph column on Friday, Hansen seemed less than enthused with the prospect of Origi signing for Liverpool. He noted:
"Origi has a long way to go before being the finished article. He has genuine pace, but he is also raw and displayed some wayward finishing against the Americans. He is young and has potential, but you cannot ignore his rawness".
Is Hansen subtly warning LFC against signing Origi? Reading between the lines, it certainly sounds like it to me.
This may seem hard to believe, but I genuinely want to be enthusiastic about LFC's transfers. I'd love to write an article praising Rodgers for trying to sign a genuinely exciting player, but unfortunately, it's increasingly difficult to get excited about the manager's transfer choices. This particular deal, for instance, is Tiago Ilori all over again:
* Sign a young, promising player (with no hope of first team action) for mid-level fee.
* Stick him in the youth set-up for a few months.
* At some point, realise that he's not going to get any games for the first team.
* Farm him out on loan for the rest of the season.
In Origi's case, there's talk that he'll immediately be loaned back to Lille, which begs the question, why sign him in the first place? Where's the fire? Spending £10m doesn't help Liverpool *this season*, just like spending £7m on Ilori didn't help the club last season.
Some will argue that Origi and Ilori are players 'for the future', and that sounds like a great idea, but based on LFC's transfer history, the historical probability of those two becoming first team regulars is slim-to-none. Consider this fact: In LFC's entire history, no young player has ever come back from a loan spell and become an established first team player.
If I'm wrong about that, someone please correct me.
Things can, of course, change, but this is the ingrained culture of the club, and it doesn't just change overnight. It's quite simple: if you're good enough, you're old enough, and players - irrespective of age - who are capable of making a long-term impact on the first team do not get farmed out on loan. Raheem Sterling is a prime example of this.
On a related note: If Origi signs, and inevitably goes out on loan, that will make it £38m worth of players bought by Rodgers who then ended up on loan (Borini, Assaidi, Ilori, Alberto, Origi), which represents one-third of LFC's paid transfers under Rodgers.
That's £38m not being utilised for the benefit of LFC's onfield progress, and it's £38m that could've been spent on two experienced, top class players capable of making an impact *now* (or last season).
With four competitions to play for next season, and a squad conspicuously light on players with much-needed European experience, I don't see how this is an effective transfer strategy.
It really is quite maddening. I wish I could just stick my head in the sand, and peddle the 'trust the manager' party-line like so many others, but unfortunately, the reality of the situation (and LFC's transfer history) always gets in the way.
I apologise for taking a realistic - and yes, critical - approach to transfers, but I fail to see a credible alternative that doesn't involve being massively disingenuous.
Author: Jaimie K
Pay 10 million now rather than 20 million later. It's a gamble, pure and simple.
ReplyDeleteLlori was good is Spain last year and I remember watching him against Barcelona, he was fantastic and got man of the match. I think he's going to be fantastic for Liverpool in the long run and his blistering pace for a central defender will be a real plus for how we play. I also could see him becoming a good holding midfielder like Matic if Liverpool put him there because he's technically very good too.
ReplyDeletePaying a relatively lower fee for the likes of Origi and Illori, seems a sound future investment to me. These two are clearly earmarked for the future, clubs do that sometimes, what's the point of paying over the odds for a finished product who might not fit into the system. If, for whatever reason Origi or Illori fail to make it, as seemingly is the case with he best young player in the last Copa America, Sebastian Coates, then 7 or 10 million would not look like such an overinflated price as 20 odd million. The days of 20 million for Downing and 35 million for Carroll are hopefully behind us, but who's to say every transfer decision will work out? All this words of warning from ex players, it's unnecessary backseat managing, like a lot of fans do, thinking playing several seasons of champ man makes them an authority. It is precisely because Origi is raw but with great potential that he may be allowed to continue his development at Lille, rather than biding our time and possibly buying him later for a higher price. On the flip side, should he fail, 10 million is not an insurmountable loss to get over, or indeed a deterrent to ward off interested clubs
ReplyDelete100% agree, if I were Rogers I would insist Sanchez for Suarez and some cash or No Deal. Let Suarez stay with us if they don't agree!!
ReplyDeleteIt is essential we get top quality striker for Suarez or the cash will be wasted!!
I think Liverpool are trying to create future stars rather than buying
ReplyDeletethem for £30- 40m etc, which is better business imo. Obviously the first
team needs beefing up too. It's about getting the right balance.
Just a general question that you may have answered before, but who would you sign? What players? I mean realistic targets. It seems not every player - Sanchez, Huntlear, Shaquri (sp)- wants to play for LFC. So, who would you target?
ReplyDeleteYeah, regardless of whether it is a good deal, the logic isn't too hard to discern. The 'fire' is the potential of his value rising or someone else swooping in.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it isn't £10m, it is £6.5m plus add-ons.
JK has a right to be cautious about this kind of deal because Brendan has had some pretty ineffectual signings in the last couple of years but I don't think it is a major issue this season since we're awash with cash.
You don't want to be profligate but a calculated risk (as this must surely be- we were linked with him pre World Cup) isn't as big an issue for me as the likes of Aspas who has neither potential nor the ability to deliver in the present.
He needs to have a few pies first. Skinny wee chap by English football standards. Hopefully we wont loan him out to Spain this season and he'll have no choice but to adapt.
ReplyDeleteSure we can wait when he becomes a finish article we can pay 3 times as much. Lukaku part Deux??
ReplyDeleteI agree. That's his only weakness and heading the ball in England you need strength not to be bullied. Spanish football won't help him develop as he's already good with his feet.
ReplyDeleteI could come up with a list of targets, but the issue is this: there are literally hundreds of players available in the transfer market. I refuse to believe that Rodgers cannot find at least *one* experienced, top class player to sign for Liverpool. The scouting teams spends all year every year searching for players, so there is no excuse.
ReplyDeleteLallana?
ReplyDeleteBy 'experienced', I mean someone with European experience too, since LFC are in the CL.
ReplyDeleteJAMIE YOU ARE A DOG'S D*** SOMETIMES, WELL 99%
ReplyDeleteSorry that seems rather like a cop out to me. It is fair to be critical, but, if so, you should state better options. Fact is we really do not know the inner workings of the transfer market. It is fun to speculate and debate, but if you make a critique present a viable option. I think Sanchez would be grand, but it looks like he is not interested. What top experienced striker can we get?
ReplyDeleteAre we as rich, as marketable, as high in gate receipts and as attractive a city compared to Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd in the country? Hmm...I'm talking about a collective effort since FSG's took over to allow LFC back into the Champions League. Anyway, talking about FSG, hats off to them, they have been the best and most supportive owner the club can ever get.
ReplyDeleteI'm sooooo hoping the barca deal falls through after we sign markovic and lovren
ReplyDeleteSterling...
ReplyDeleteTrust me i'm not saying u don't have valid points. We do have a terrible transfer policy and we do overspend on players. Ie downing, Caroll etc, and I agree we can't be as wasteful as other richer clubs so yes its worse for us to waste, but I disagree that clubs lick their lips when we come knocking. You contradict yourself. We get pipped and out bidder for players by richer clubs, and chelsea and man city and even tottenham pip us to players by out bidding us. If I was a small club I'd rather sell players to city or chelsea as I know I'd be guaranteed more money. As for the running of the club and liverpool nor being a mega club, I disagree. Rogers has jus made us talk on the pitch last season and we earned more from tv rights than any of the so called mega clubs in England u mentioned. As for arsenal, it's a great club if ur an accountant, like wenger was, as they do make alot of money and penny pinch. But would I risk overspending here n there to actually WIN something? Yes. Arsenal just had wengers 10 year plan lead them to a fa cup. Guarantee in 10 years rogers will win more than 1 fa cup. The champions league is a big draw for players and we have been missing out yes, but now we are as good an option to play for than anyone. Coutinho and sturridge and suarez and Torres and alonso and mascherano and skrtel etc are great signings we have made. We are much less of a graveyard for top players than anyone else in the league
ReplyDeleteI very much want to get behind LFC on every decision it makes, be it on-field and in the transfer market. I just simply don't see how overpaying for Lallana and maybe paying exorbitantly for this young unproven player can help cement our place in the top 4 of EPL. Talking about defense that cost us the title last season, are we going to pay 20 mil pounds for Moreno and even more for Dejan Lovren after being rejected at 20 mil pounds.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sad at the ambition of the club but I'm sad at it's ineptness in finding good but cheap players in the transfer market. It has become a tradition for LFC to be held ransom by clubs for players. We can argue all the way about LFC not being the Champions League therefore it's not an attraction to star players etc. But to recall how BR wanting to make Iago Aspas the savior of LFC in the home match against Chelsea pains my heart till today. Please do not tell me we don't have the means to get Loic Remy at 8 mil pounds and Wilfried Bony at 12 mil pounds. We are simply incapable of finding such players given the capacity of our present manager, transfer committee and scouting network.
Hansen is noted for proclaiming that you will not win anything with kids before those kids became a dominant force so it is good to see he is consistent about judging kids before they have had a chance.
ReplyDeleteHe may know Origi from before the World Cup but then he could be judging him on World Cup games where he has equaled Ronaldo & Rooney goal tallies and one less than £32m Alexis Sanchez so its not bad for a raw 19 year old kid.
LFC investment in him is similar to Arsenal's investment in Walcot, Ramsey and The Ox which turned out to be inspired. Besides big clubs are stockpiling talent who my never play for them but they still make profit off them. Chelsea will get money from our purchase of Malkovic because they hold an option on him just like they did when they got a near £10m profit on De Bryun who hardly kicked a ball for them. Arsenal may do this with Joel Campbell and oh.. United (please don't laugh) tried it with Bebe needless to say they still own his rights
FFP means clubs need to find new sources of revenue and owning rights to players and selling them for higher prices as done by agents in South America is one way of doing this
Agreed JK. This" for the future" BS is unbearable. Why can't we just sign top quality experienced players for the now. We have CL. Players will want to sign for us. Though the lure of London seems to be a big hindrance.
ReplyDeleteThe problem right now with LFC is that LFC is out to compete with those mega clubs
ReplyDeletelike Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. But the
most saddening fact is that LFC spent mega dollars to get unestablished or unproven players over the years whereas mega clubs get
in players that gave them success, both on and off field. Now come the questions, does LFC has owner that provides unlimited funds like Chelsea, Man City & PSG? Is LFC a lucrative marketing target like Man Utd, Real Madrid and Barcelona? Does LFC has bigger stadium than Man Utd, Arsenal, Real Madrid and Barcelona? Does LFC has state funds like Real Madrid? Sadly, LFC still has a huge fan base worldwide only because of it's past success.
The club ought to work within budget that suits the club best. Do not try to act like a mega club and start to spend crazy money on players. Mega dollars on unestablished and unproven players or one or half season wonders will not get the club consistent success on field. This flexing of so-called financial muscle is meaningless since it does not have a really big financial muscle. There are countless of good players that are keen to jump on the chance to prove themselves at LFC.
This may sound offending but LFC needs to take serious lessons from Arsenal in terms of running the club like a company and BR needs to take serious lessons from Arsene Wenger in uncovering cheap and good gems in the transfer market.
Danny Murphy... One player who went out on loan and came back to immediately be a first team regular!
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. If these signings are not followed up by first team quality then all the criticism is quite fair. To me all of these "for the future" signings are a bit of a distraction. Some people expect that Alberto, Ilori and perhaps now Origi are being bought to have a first team impact. It's just not going to happen. They become kind of irrelevant. Yes, money is being spent, but I don't believe that this money is restricting the club when it comes to other signings. But we need that first team impact, we need some additional quality. Lallana and Lambert are good and Lallana in particular may turn out to be an inspired signing. Lovren would be another good first team signing, Moreno too. We just need more like that. These young players are not those signings. They're part of a different plan.
ReplyDeleteIago was useless i agree. But this guy trust me is class. I mean it. But i am not sure we gonna get him. He is a bit like hazard. dont go for youtube but watch him in an actual match u will realize what i am saying. I dont think we will be signing any world class players this window. (only Markovic and Origi maybe added along with defence) because they are very rare this window and we cant compete with Arsenal. But you must see that us achieving top 4 has put us level with Arsenal otherwise we would be competing with spurs for nobodies. We just need to do a good job this season( top 4 or 3) and keep the money for next year to get the absolute best players. Like Arsenal sold Van persy , didnt buy, achieved top 4 then went for ozil. What is done is done last trasfer window was sadddd but i am happy we have not gone for Shaqiri and Konoplyanka that means we hav learnt from our mistakes
ReplyDeleteAgreed
ReplyDeleteVery harsh assessment, IMO. The kid's a full international at 19, and started for his team in the quarterfinals of a World Cup, albeit ineffectually. Although to be fair he looked much better for Belgium then another high profile Lille product.
ReplyDeleteYes he's raw, but I'd say he's WELL worth a gamble at £6.5m...could prove to be an absolute steal. After his showing in Brasil, he will be brimming with confidence when he returns to Lille, and I can see him banging in around 15 goals next season in Ligue 1, doubling his value before he even arrives at Melwood.
Comparisons with Ilori are also unfair as Origi is much further along in his development, as is typical for forwards v central defenders (except Jonathan Tah, who is a freak of nature).
Trust me, my friend. I'm over the moon with last season's achievement. That is just too unreal for me.
ReplyDeleteThere are certain points to note. we were not outbid by Spurs, Swansea and QPR for players like Christian Eriksen, Bony Wilfried and Loic Remy. It's just that they were not on our wanted list when we were not in the Champions League.
Now we are back in the Champions League. But we paid mega bucks in 25 mil pounds for Adam Lallana (mind you, we are unrivaled in doing so), I'm not particularly impressed by this dude, especially at this price. Now we are going for this Lazar guy with no attacking stats to show for as an attacking midfielder at around 20 mil pounds. I'm also scared that we will improve our bid for Dejan Lovren after being rejected for 20 mil pounds. I mean seriously, are they the ones that can consistently deliver Champions League football for LFC, anybody's guess. But are they in the mega-dollar category, yes certainly. Some contradictions here, I would rather have other big clubs in for these players and see LFC battles it out with them than having these big clubs sit back, arms folded, watch us being made fools time and again and laughing out loudly in the end.
My point is rather simple. If star players like Alexis Sanchez (a non first-team regular in Barca actually) prefers Arsenal to LFC, there absolutely nothing we can do. Think of it, which star in his right frame of mind will want to partner Lallana rather than Ozil? But at the same time, it doesn't mean we have to pay mega dollars always for unestablished, unproven players or 1 season wonders when we are not able to attract the so-called 'stars'.
We are now in deep sh*t in replacing the influential soon-to-go LS. I'm almost certain Adam Lallana, Dejan Lovren and Lazar Markovic, combined fees similar to LS's selling fees, are not adequate replacements.
Depends on who's opinion you value more,
ReplyDeleteMichael Owen believes Origi is a better player than Lukaku, check out Owens twitter account.
Arsenal are going for Debuchy, so that gives us a chance to sign Aurier. I watched him in first game and he got 2 assists after that dont kno what happened. For 8 mi he would be a good buy and surely better than Johnson. For CD, i am not sure about paying 20m for Lovren. Dont kno what would we do there.
ReplyDeleteMate Buying aspas, borini and alberto was a mssive fail agree( this is were Arsenal are ahead of us). But we are not Chelsea or ManC..We dont have unlimited funds and we cant replace Suarez. ManU sold Ronaldo and didnt sign anybody still won the league. In 90s all their star players left, what did they do? they bring in 4 players from youth academy. To perform despite losing star players shows we can achieve something special. I am not sad. I am just nervous because we will be shown what Liverpool really are. We will be shown our true image next season and how do we cope without the guy who had 43 % involvement in our total goals. If we fail, we get down to spuds level . But if we succeed, you know that we will go a long way
LOL fan driven nonsense.....methinks you prefer to be critical just to be critical. I understand it is your thing, but fail to see how it is cliched to ask for an alternative when you critique. It would be like if I just said, "you are wrong" without any supporting statements. But hey your blog, your rules. Peace
ReplyDeleteGood one, my friend.
ReplyDeleteYeah we are certainly not teams that make up the numbers in the UCL. We have kicked many big-time asses there, always. I'm pretty certain Real Madrid, Barca, Munich and Chelsea regard us as worthy opponents.
I just want LFC to be back being a fearsome animal in England and Europe. So much so that I'm being easily disappointed by their decision/indecision to sign/not sign certain players.
Oh I feel your pain there bro and I have done since they last were in the champions league. We are a big big team even without champions league but I agree we were behind others. Now tho I feel ur and my dream is coming true tho. Rogers hasn't had money to spend on expensive players yet and now he does I trust his eye. We will already be scaring the big teams in Europe and nobody will want us in their group. As for in the premiership, after last season the teams in England are definitely scared of playing us. One thing I'm very happy about is that now rogers has full say in transfers he is not wasting any time. We have been the most active big team and he is not slowing down which makes a big change for us usually!
ReplyDeleteI admire your positivity for LFC.
ReplyDeleteYup, I would love to see Jordan Ibe, Suso and Tiago Ilori playing regularly for LFC and not other clubs. We can show others who we really are if we manage to successfully transit into another era after LS. Oh Serge Aurier can be a real deal at 8 mil pounds. Heard Spurs are in for him as well. We should not fear any of the 2 clubs but more to worry LFC's reluctance to replace GJ.
To be fair to people like Casey, a lot of people haven't read those threads, and they shouldn't be expected to trawl back through them. If you're going to continually make critiques, then you should always back them up with your own alternatives.
ReplyDeleteThey haven't asked you on a totally unrea
I think Origi based on his World Cup performance will be a very good investment . Hopefully at £ 10 million including add ons he is not going to strain the team's transfer budget . What BR needs to focus on is the leaky defense that cost the team the league last year , I think Lovren is coming in in spite of the Saints shenanigans . We also need a strong left back . I am skeptical of Moreno although his name continues to come up . Big question marks about Bertrand too . It's sad that Chelsea seem to be going ahead for the Argentinian , Rojo . I thought he would be good value .
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, I value Owen's opinion more in this case because he was (at his best) a lethal striker. Hansen was centre back. Owen knows more about being a striker than Hansen does. But that doesn't mean Hansen's view deserves to be dismissed...
ReplyDeleteGuys Jamie is Right. Rodgers activity on the transfer market Is some what disastrous. He still seems to have this 'smaller club' mentality about him. Signing players from lower placed opposition seems to be his moto. Sturridge and Coutinho probed to be a success as they came from teams who have been there and done it.
ReplyDeleteWe have in the past had owners who have not been beneficial to us. You can't honestly put FSG in that basket. As far as managers go, Wenger may have once been one of the best managers around, but there are a new crop of managers coming through with Rodgers at the forefront. To me, Rodgers is one of the very best managers around. As far as FSG goes, when they bought Boston Red Sox, they bought a team who had gone a hell of a lot longer without winning the big one, 80 odd years and within 3 years of them owning the Red Sox, they won the World Series and it hasn't just been a flash in the pan either, they have been there or there abouts all but one season since. Since FSG bought Liverpool, not only have they removed the debt and have gone about refurbishing Anfield, much like they did with Fenway Park, Liverpool very nearly won the league within their first 3 years. I am also a very loyal LFC supporter, been so since the early 80s, so therefore I've been through the ups and also the downs, and in this current administration and manager, I see the good days coming back again. They may not get every decision and every purchase right, no one does. Even the greatest manager of all time, Sir Alex Ferguson (I hate saying this) got many purchases wrong, Massimo Taibi, Eric Djemba-Djemba, Juan Sebastian Veron, Anderson, Bebe, just to name a few, as well as David Moyes. Considering in his tenure, Ferguson bought surprisingly few players, he had a pretty horrendous success rate. And if the first few seasons, his success rate was even worse, we only remember the signings he got right like Dennis Irwin and Steve Bruce and Gary Pallister, we forget about the signings he got wrong. Rodgers has gotten some signings wrong, but he has also got a lot of signings right. Mignolet, Coutinho, Sturridge, Allen, these signings can be considered a success and while Allen may not have set the world on fire, he was instrumental in helping us adopt the style of play that Rodgers likes. In future, I believe Sakho would also be considered as a success and possibly even Borini if we keep him. And by the way, the art of running a football club, whether as you call it mega or non-mega (and given the sponsorship deals we have in place and the world-wide fanbase, we can be considered mega, even if just now, our performances on the pitch match our performances off the pitch), is all about finding a balance. If you spend more money than is coming into the club, then you become in debt. This is the reason why Arsenal as a club have been so healthy.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, your last comment is quite an amusing one. Realistic and critical? I think realistic is a matter of opinion (based on your argument/assessment). Liverpool won't be the first nor will they be the last team to buy 'potential' and a lot of it. I've seen people use Wenger as an example in the past regarding being successful at transfer management. Yes you are critical of Rodgers transfers and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion (It's your site at the end of the day), what I think is unfair though is when you become overly critical. At the end of the day managers buy players they feel will fit in to their way of playing and add to the team dynamic. Whether they end up with that sometimes is another thing entirely. I joked with a mate of mine years ago that Arsenal would be on a downward spiral after selling successive stars like Anelka, Viera, Henry and buying (what I thought was) dross, but they've qualified for the Champions League EVERY season, with who? Who is Arsenals best player? Ask an Arsenal fan, they normal mumble or say er dunno Ramsey? They have a team of players that would barely make it into ANY other top tier team (except maybe Ramsey) but they generally play cohesively and this is in part due to the managers organisation of the GENERALLY untried and untested players they have. We're now in a situation where we potentially have a bucket load of cash and almost 'almost' a like for like replacement for our star player with (according to reports) half the cash left, but he has (since the rumour started) categorically stated that he will not come to Liverpool. Who's to blame for that? Being critical doesn't necessarily mean being negative, there is absolutely no way of knowing if players like Ilori or Origi will become first team regulars but based on Rodgers track record with players like Flanno, Sterling and even Coutinho and Sturridge, I'm confident that if they are good enough in training they'll get their chance. One thing that is obvious with Rodgers is he does give youth a chance. You said yourself that the squad is thin, this is 100% true, but at the moment, we cant fill all the vacant slots with ready made superstars, that just isn't 'realistic'.
ReplyDeleteRodgers was never going to be able to get a loan of Deulofeu over the Everton boss who has links to Barcelona and is Spanish.
ReplyDeleteThe fact Rodgers didn't do so well buying players, yet, had Liverpool
ReplyDeleteplaying the most exciting football in England and almost won the league,
shows what a brilliant manager he is and Liverpool are very lucky to have the manager of the year.
How can you insist if the player is unwilling to come?
ReplyDeleteNow it's obvious you are not a credible writer about LFC. Don't believe you anymore..and to the rest LFC fans, don't ever visit his site anymore.
ReplyDeleteJaimie K is not a credible writer about LFC. Don't believe him anymore..and to the rest LFC fans, don't ever visit his site
ReplyDeleteanymore.
Can I ask why you think Origi isn't an exciting player? He has just played most of the games in the world biggest competition, and whilst he didn't blow any one away, he still got on the score sheet and didn't seem to be in awe of the occasion. He started ahead of Lukaku so something clearly thinks he has what it takes. He is part of one of the most exciting national teams in god knows how long.
ReplyDeleteTo buy him and send him out on loan would be pointless, but with Suarez seemingly about to leave, maybe there will be a lot more chances for someone like Origi to play.
Personally I'm not a fan of buying a player then loaning him straight out, although I acknowledge that in the modern market that is sometimes the only way you can get the player, Origi being an example of this.
ReplyDeleteI'm not worried if we don't get a marque signing, as when we got Sturridge and Coutinho people were not jumping up and down yet both have flourished.
Most of the players Rogers has bought in are young, quick and versatile which is great and should not be seen as going straight into the first 11 but more a case of allowing us to start and create 2 starting 11's. All the new players can fit into the current 1st team and give it something different, but they can also be seen as being an alternative in that position.
Markovic for Sterling, Lambert for Sturridge, Can for Gerrard and so on.
I would bring back some of the loan signings and see how they get on (Iloris, Wisdom, Borini, Assaidi) and use some of the younger players in the squad more.
If we are to buy any more players then I would say Shaqiri, Lovren and Rojo then settle down and let the team take shape, this may leave us some money for January if there are any bargains around.
Our signings so far will not take us to the next level. Lallana is a good buy, Can, Lambert and the serbian guy (if we get him) will not do much other than strengthen the squad, which of course needs doing. We will miss LS , you can't take 31 goals from a team and not replace him. Why are we not breaking the bank for Sanchez or going for Jackson Martinez or the like. Origi and Lambert, Borini cannot fill LS place thats for sure. We are still short and the fact that Rogers is focusing on potential is very worrying. Alas, if he does not learn from his mistakes and these players fail to make an impact, it will ultimately cost him his job and we will be back to square one again. I hope I'm wrong. Rogers is a fantastic coach, but his scouting of players needs massive improvement.
ReplyDeleteYou mention that In "Liverpool's entire history" no young players have gone on loan to then come back and make it in the first team and you challenge anyone to prove otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI think what you say is almost certainly true but I think the loaning of young players on a large scale is a relatively recent phenomenon. I am not sure there is a large body of evidence to support what appears a damning fact and what data there is probably has more do do with the fact that the players were not good enough to start with.
It does though highlight the difficulty of properly developing young players in an extremely competitive EPL where the penalties for finishing outside the top 4 are severe and likely to get worse. The youth game does not seem to be of sufficient quality and loaning means you lose some control over a player's development.
I don't have any answers but clearly if you are forced to buy the finished product to maintain league position that favours the clubs with most resources but if you go down the youth development route that means many will probably not make it and it can appear a waste of time and money
Jaimie K , lighten up , if we dont spend the money or get the players then its the yanks who dont want to spend or Ayre who messed up. Yes perhaps the fees are higher than expected but youngsters with potential are always more expensive as they will have a sell on value in the future. JK you seem like the liverpool supporter who complain about these things because if it doesn't work out , you can say I told you so, well nobody cares about bragging rights.
ReplyDeleteJamie, with the imminent arrival of £70-75 million pounds for Suarez, who would you buy to replace Suarez?
ReplyDeleteThe transfers made to date have been disappointing to say the least. Sanchez's snub is a bit of a blow to us really. In my eyes he was the only 'replacement' available that even half fitted the bill!
I appreciate you've answered this question before but your opinion on this is relevant to this thread!
ReplyDeleteLet's just read the lines. Yes he is raw nut those people unlike Hanson and probably Jaime who have scouted him have seen him in more than a couple of games at the WC. This us not a player fie now. The most likely loan back to Lille is evidence of that.
ReplyDeleteTransfer history means nothing. New manager, new owners, new coaches and new scouts. How the club is run and players used and brought on may be different. History in this regard us meaningless.
ReplyDeleteDo you ever do an article where you don't moan about the fee? Any transfer is a gamble no matter who they are or the fee involved. Unfortunately to compete with the big boys you have to spend big money. Yes we know coutinho was cheap but relatively speaking transfers like that are few and far between.
ReplyDeleteIn answer to your questions in would say no. Unfortunately new money and our lack of CL and recent successful has meant we have fallen behind those teams in marketability and prestige. Fate is much less also, but regardless to those things we still have to compete against those teams in the same market so spending less than those teams can't really be seen as out if this world it's the world we are fighting in. A world we did well in last year.
ReplyDeleteWhilst I would love this to be true. The Sanchez deal is kind of a reminder that we can't yet attract to best players. IMO Liverpool are a more exciting prospect. But I guess from Sanchez's point of view he see's Liverpool only just getting back in the CL, whereas Arsenal have been a constant for quite a few years.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool are obviously still a very big club, but the fact that they haven't been in the CL for a number of years, is clearly taking its toll a little bit.
Spurs were in there not long ago, but they haven't really been able to attract the best. Because the best might think they aren't there to stay, and for Spurs that was true. So maybe they think the same for Liverpool? I don't know...
I understand your point about CL football, but do you think people saw Spurs as a top club when they got there? I don't, and I wonder if that is what people are thinking of Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteI know in reality Liverpool aren't really comparable in terms or European success, but its been almost 10 years since Liverpool won, and a good few years since they were last in it. Maybe the top players are thinking we could be another Spurs?
This is the first year back in the CL and you seem to think we can instantly compete for signatures with Barca, Real, Bayern etc.
ReplyDeleteExactly. We loan him back because, quite simply, we wouldn't have been able to sign him otherwise. It happened when Man U signed Zaha and they paid twice the money we paid (another bullet dodged) and no one asks questions. Obviously because Zaha is English and we all know that's where all the talent in Europe comes from. I agree with JK that along with these types of signings I'm still waiting for the name to blow me away though. As it seems, it won't be Alexis Sanchez and Hummels is now linked to Barca and Man United (who for some reason have no problems attracting players in spite of not being in any European competition next year....another myth busted)
ReplyDeleteOn who Mr Scout?
ReplyDeleteWho would you prefer Liverpool to sign Jaimie? This lad looks like he has the potential to be something special, if you cant get the likes of Sanchez to sign you need to try and get a player who can become as good.
ReplyDeletePeople keep bringing up that game against Barcelona but fact is that he only played 9 games at Granada so he was hardly first choice.
ReplyDeleteExactly, you just end up with less cash and a player who doesn't want to be at your club. And that's the best case scenario.
ReplyDeleteGerrard would be ideal for this role
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of points I agree with and don't but all I want to say is if we lose Suarez we need to replace him with a proven goal scoring creative talent who can somewhat hopefully match Suarez in some respect .. if we were supposed to have 50 mill r so to spend .. add the Suarez money we should have enough to buy a big name.. I think sturridge and sterling benefitted massively from defenders watching Suarez the whole game etc ..I really hope we get Sanchez
ReplyDeleteCompletely agree. It looks like being Groundhog Day once again at Anfield.
ReplyDeleteDisagree the night life in London is what appeals to him he doesnt weant to go to Liverpool to live
ReplyDeleteYep exactly the kind we need doesnt score many with bugger all assists another over priced DUD.
ReplyDeleteSchalke general manager Horst Heldt claims the club have had no contact from Liverpool over a possible move for Holland international Klaas-Jan Huntelaar. Most recently, I've read that Liverpool FC should have interest in Klaas-Jan Huntelaar. Liverpool, Klaas-Jan and also his adviser have not contacted us. And we also have no interest in selling the player.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jaimie K on this. He simply isnt a priority right now. Now that Saurez is essentially gone and it looks like we arent getting Sanchez, the priority must be the finished article. The problem is there are very few prolific goalscorers who are also playmakers as well! The only realistic one that keeps popping in my head is Firmino.
ReplyDeleteJamie you asked what are the chances of the said players coming and being absolute superstars, well the chances are 50-50 they will either come to liverpool and not be absolute superstars (50%) or they will (50%)
ReplyDeletecould not agree more mate spot on!
ReplyDeleteso where did i say that? you "seem" to think i am stupid enough to believe that? seems you haven't been reading my posts! which i am saying BR promised we would be buying quality players to come in and make a difference to our coming campaign, and i don't see any world class players joining do you? some good players maybe, but we are losing our only world class player, where did i mention competing with Barca etc? i happen to agree with JK, we are still farming out players we bought last season!! maybe if we had spent money on one world class player instead of 4 "potential players" who are now playing for other clubs we may have won the league last year, you do the maths mate Borrini, Assaidi, Aspas, and so on, oh, and i didn't "seem to think anything mate" read my posts.
ReplyDeleteYes. this is what I have been thinking. Imagine if he was English, a young English 19 year old forward that can play out wide and up front, a player that was in the WC squad and scored a goal in the WC. What would the price be for such a player, I would think at least 20mil. He is raw so, what. 10mil in football isn't much and he does have potential. Last time we paid 35mil for potential this time it is only 10mil. The risk is always their with every transfer but 10-20mil for young up coming highly rated players that have shown ability in competitive games is a gamble worth taking.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the problem. It's irresponsible to neglect signing youth players who may develop into quality. It's clearly a risk, and no manager, no matter how good, gets it right all the time. The risk is mitigated by mixing these kind of transfers with players who have Premier League eague experience, a la Lallana and Lovren. Markovic and Moreno fit in to both categories, in that they improve our squad now and are still going to improve due to their age.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, you mentioned 20% hit rate. Can you share "hit-rates" of other managers as well, wenger, mourinho, moyes, ferguson, mancini, pellegrini etc
ReplyDeletein previous seasons, im pretty sure that Rodgers did not have complete control over transfers. SO any failure or success may not be attributed completely to him
ReplyDelete"Where's the fire"? Am I the only one who has read comments by people saying why didn't we sign Lovren last year when he was cheaper or why sign Markovic now at the inflated cost? It's either try and spot a future star and buy them affordable or wait and pay through the nose if you can get them at all. Am I the only one that sees the logic in this? Am I taking crazy pills? Yeah it might not turn out in a lot of instances but that is just how it works in this kind of transfer lottery. Chelsea stockpiled loads f young talented players, loaned them out for experience. Some have turned out really well and others haven't. If we had signed Lukaku for £10-£20m (depending on source, some say £10m raising to £20m with ad ons) would we be hearing "what has he done in the game"? I'm not saying Origi is as good now as Lukaku was then just that these fees and gambles need to be done, it's pointless talking about money too as the climate is very different to what it once was. Football inflation is affected by those skewing the market (Oligarchs and Sheiks) as well as how much money teams kn ow you have and what they themselves have. There are far too many variables to talk about money in any kind of knowledgeable and intelligent way as we only see the numbers, the fees. There are far more costs than that not too mention the variables I have already mentioned. This kid is raw and despite what people think there is no sure thing in a transfer anyway. Things as simple as a player not settling are common place. Lets just welcome new editions to the club and support them along the way. If they don't end up being a success so be it but lets not self aggrandise by making predictions and going on about thje m for months if it comes off.
ReplyDeleteGod I just ranted loads and you said it in one line. Doh!
ReplyDeleteSo with Suarez almost gone we will have...
ReplyDeleteSturridge, Lambert, Sterling, Coutinho, Borini, Lallana and Markovic (soon to be announced) for this coming season so far.
Should the deal for Origi go through then he may stay on loan at Lille. The transfer window has not even shut one player out (Suarez), 3 new attacking players in (Lambert, Lallana ans Markovic) and Borini (should he stay) like a brand new signing. If we can find another experienced striker then surely we will be in a stronger position depth wise than what we were?
Depth wise for sure but the on the field quality will have shrunk.
ReplyDeleteWe could sign James rodreguez, Mario Balotelli, Shaquiri, would they be what were looking for? whos to say they would become superstars? out of those three, people may laugh but super Mario is proven in the prem the other two could become poor byes, Karem Benzima heres another name we know well, could he make it in the prem? its not about big names its about finding the right cogs to make the machine work to its best. I was banging on about Matts Hummels three years ago, that we should try getting him look at who we brought in at the time Seb Coates whos proven to be the better player. today im going to say shalke 04 CD Joel matip we should bye him now hes going to be another world class centre back in a few years time hes good now but will be one of the best CBs in the world if not the best IMO.Im not saying im better at scouting than the lfc scouts but i know a good player when i see one, too much emphasis on statistics for my liking one players stats could be ten times better on paper, does that mean he will be a better player if he moves from one league ( country ) to another? so maybe Markovic will be a star thats up to him if his attitudes right he could become a superstar, look at Suarez he loves playing the game, that`s why he`s become worldclass he would kick a ball from dusk til dawn if possible thats dedication, thats hunger to be the best at what your good at. YNWA.
ReplyDeleteactually he's done quite well in the World Cup
ReplyDeleteNot really a myth busted. It is still the most succesful club in the premier league era (age of most players). They now have a very well regarded manager around the world and he is no doubt doing himself more favours now. One year out of CL and who did we sign? It's when you are out for a while that players are certainly going to think twice. Not to mention the ability and potentially the will to pay extraordinary wages.
ReplyDeleteBut one thing that is most important to remember is they haven't signed Hummels or anyone of that ilk yet (unless you class Herrera and Shaw as the same level. I don't). Lets bust the myth if they don't get champo next season and sign Vidal.
You can refuse to allow Suarez to join them unless they show greater determination to give a top line player to Liverpool in part exchange. If none of their forwards are prepared to join Liverpool then they (and Suarez) have a problem. Liverpool fans would be more than happy to stick.
ReplyDeleteHe was injured for quite a while. And uninjured he was first choice!
ReplyDeleteCome on, there's a major difference between Lovren - an established, Premier League-proven 25-year old international - and Origi, a 19-year old with next to no experience.
ReplyDeleteHit rate is a matter of opinion. Look at their transfers and form your own view.
ReplyDeleteSuarez is a player with massive ability and finding another player like him is not going to happen anytime soon unless we land someone like Sanchez which is not looking likely but now Sturridge will have the main man status.
ReplyDeleteI think for now we are ok and if we add another striker/forward then who knows, we may be better off than what were.
And how much has Lambert cost? How much has Can cost? Well below 20M. If Rodgers believes a player is worth a certain amount, he will go for him. Just because some fans believe Lallana isn't worth 25M or however much he cost, that is not to say he isn't. At the end of the day, we are fans, not experts. Rodgers is a manager and therefore, he is an expert. If he values a player at a certain amount, then I trust Rodgers that the player is worth that amount. Sometimes it doesn't work, every signing is a gamble, but trust the manager's judgement that it will indeed work.
ReplyDeleteLovren was not a 25 year old established premier league player last season though was he? I will concede he was further along in his career. But point remains the same, the scots are employed to pinpoint these players early so as to pay less in the long run. Like all investments they don't always work out and you miss better ones but the principle is logical.
ReplyDeleteWhich is why Rodgers bought Rickie Lambert, yep, exactly in keeping with the buy young players philosophy. Frankly, a younger player is generally cheaper than a player who is already in their prime and without the ego. This is one of the reasons that buying younger players is preferred, however, it's not something that is set in stone.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, please use proper words and not textspeak. Secondly, this is already different to the circumstances of Bale and Spurs. When Spurs sold Bale, they had not bought any players at in that window, not only that, Spurs were very much a one player team. However with LFC last season, although Suarez scored 31 goals, we weren't solely reliant on him, This transfer window, we have already made purchases that would make the team better with or without Suarez, so if Suarez goes (in all likelihood he will, but we know what happened last season) we won't be as bad off as Spurs were last season and the players we are being linked with are far more promising than the players AVB bought to replace Bale.
ReplyDeleteIf he thought Liverpool were title challengers and Arsenal top 4 challengers, he'd pick Liverpool. It never really disadvantged Utd...
ReplyDeleteArsene Wenger with all his signings, most of them are youth signings and we have only seen a small proportion of those. This means Wenger still has a comparable transfer record. You say that the marketing value of LFC isn't as high as these other clubs, and that is why we have signed sponsorship deals for mega bucks, sorry, pounds? Would Chelsea or Man City get 90,000 people in Australia coming to a game or around the same in South East Asia? I do not believe so. Man Utd may get that, but they are the only English side that would get anything close to that. How are FSG wasteful? It seems with some fans that FSG can't win, they either don't fund the purchases and they are scrooges or they do and they are wasteful. Rodgers has made some very shrewd signings, whether you agree they are or not. And as far as your claim about LFC's scouts being clueless and not something Man City or Chelsea would have, I'm guessing you don't realise that our scouting team were poached from Man City. How about you stop being so pessimistic about LFC. The club is now being run properly. Remember, FSG have only been in charge for 3 years. In that time, they have nearly brought us the title and while you say they are wasteful, they are not so wasteful that we are dealing with huge amounts of debt. This alone is a remarkable achievement. Our performance off the pitch since they have been in charge has been tremendous, probably within the top 5 clubs in the world. Their performances and results on the pitch are now starting to come to fruition. Let me ask you a question. Would you rather us have one season where we win everything and then fall off or would you rather us have sustained success where we may not win the title or cups every season, but we are there or thereabouts right to the end over many seasons? If you want the latter, like I myself do, you have to realise that this won't happen overnight, you have to be patient. Frankly with where we are in both FSG (3 years) and Brendan Rodgers (2 years), we are well ahead of schede. Last season, we were going for qualification to the CL, that we were contenders to the title right up until the last game was more than we realistically were aiming for after finishing 7th the previous season.
ReplyDeleteAs far as money we got from TV, I would say we are the most marketable club, being we earned the most money from TV rights.
ReplyDeleteThe way that Bony plays, although he is good, is not a Tiki Take (pass and move) type of player. Loic Remy may be more in keeping with that, but I don't believe Bony is that player. We can't buy players just for the sake of buying players. We have to buy players who fit into our game plan, our style of play and who have a mentality that will be beneficial to our team, not harmful (not saying Bony or Remy have a suspect mentality). I disagree with your valuation of our ineptness. You would want us to buy Bony for 12M, but is as good as Sturridge, who we also paid 12M for? Coutinho cost us 8M. Mignolet cost us around 10M, give or take. This is proof that we have bought very good players without overpaying.
ReplyDeleteI will call you up on that, Arsenal bought Giroud as a replacement for van Persie. They also bought Cazorla that transfer window, so he could also be seen as a replacement, or perhaps Lukas Podolski, who they also bought that window.
ReplyDeleteBorini had an unfortunate first season for us in that he had 2 major injuries that kept hiim out for large chunks of the season, however he proved last season at Sunderland that he can score and score in big games. He is an intelligent player, makes good runs, gets in the right positions. I believe, providing we keep him, that he will become a very good player for us.
ReplyDeleteWhy would we need to replace Johnson when we have Flanagan? Or is he, in your eyes, not good enough? You say you would love to see Ibe, Suso and Ilori playing regularly, why not have Flanagan play regularly in his natural position?
ReplyDeleteHave we watched the same Sakho? The guy who left gaps left right and center and who couldn't pass a ball ten yards against Germany?
ReplyDeleteWorld Class players go to the clubs i've mentioned, that is my point. Who do you suggest is world class and available?
ReplyDeleteReally? I would have said England are the biggest underachievers in world football.
ReplyDeleteI find it helps to whistle "always look on the bright side of life" ....especially when reading one of your posts :-)
ReplyDeleteNo, if you look at the badge, it's definitely Benfica. Not only that, in the top left corner, it clearly states Ben 0- 0 Por.
ReplyDeleteAlthough this is clearly an assist, there is always a possibility as to why OPTA didn't pick it up. If OPTA pick up the league and Europe only, this could be a domestic cup game, therefore OPTA wouldn't have picked it up.
ReplyDeleteWell that will teach you to over rate useless pommy players wont it mate,.
ReplyDeleteJamie what would you think if LFC signed James Rodreguez? would you be happy? I would personally bring in Mario Balotelli, I think he would thrive at Anfield given the love and support of the Anfield club and most importantly the supporters, whats your thoughts on that? just imagine this starting 11............S,Mignolet .....M, Richards .....D,Lovren......M,Sakho......F,Coentrao.................Stevie,G......E,Can......R,Sterling......A,Lallana...............D,Sturridge......M,Balotelli.........would that be a premeier league winning team? whats your opinion we could bye all the above players this transfer window Balotelli, Lovren, Fabio Coentrao and Micah Richards or give flanno a try.
ReplyDeletethe other missing players are E,Can.....R,Sterling......A,Lallana........D,Sturridge........M,Balotelli;
ReplyDeleteYeah saw that on another inspection mate.
ReplyDeleteHe kept "Boscielny" out the team and conceded only once in 4 games
ReplyDeleteI honestly got no hopes for him. How many he scored? 8? 9? Is that enough for a striker?
ReplyDeleteAgreed... it's hyperbole, but it's politically correct. No one can ever use "bulletin board material" against him
ReplyDeleteJust saying, the player's name is Ilori. Lloris is the French goalkeeper.
ReplyDeleteHow is Skrtel a weak link? He was one of the best defenders in the league last season.
ReplyDeleteFrankly, Skrtel and Agger as a partnership has never held up. Agger with Carra was excellent. Skrtel with Carra was excellent. Skrtel was excellent last year. Not sure why, but Agegr and Skrtel just don't work well together.
ReplyDeleteI don't like SAF, but his handling of Scholes was top class and if Rodgers takes a page out of SAF's book, we could see another 4 or 5 seasons with Gerrard still in our squad and get him the league title he so richly deserves.
ReplyDeleteNot his best of games, but all the other were outstanding. And he got subbed in that one, which is what should be done in our club, but you need a damn fine cb ready to step up. And we will have one or two..
ReplyDeleteSAF?
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, if we had sold Agger last year, we wouldn't have sent Ilori out on loan and I believe if Agger does leave, Ilori will be number 4 challenging for the two starting spots.
ReplyDeleteSakho isn't as bad as you think he is. He has been good for France and will have a solid season for us too.
ReplyDeleteYou say this, but remember that Gerrard won't be playing every single game next season, so there may still be a role for Agger. Who knows, Agger may transition into the libero position created by Beckenbauer and then played brilliantly by Lothar Matthaus and more recently by Phillip Lahm.
ReplyDeleteSakho has an excellent pass completion rate, so therefore is also excellent on the ball. Skrtel was also pretty good on the ball last season.
ReplyDeleteStuck an s on the end by mistake but the point stands.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was me being lazy, lol
ReplyDelete