Soon after signing for Liverpool, Luis Suarez revealed that Atletico Madrid legend Diego Forlan is his football 'role model', and by all accounts, Suarez and Forlan have a close relationship off the pitch. The LFC striker apparently goes to Forlan for advice 'in good and bad moments', but to the relief of most LFC fans, it appears that Suarez rejected his friend's advice on one particularly important issue.
In 2011, Suarez told France Football:
"Diego Forlan is role model for me. I have great admiration for him.
"When I was fifteen I saw him on TV and wanted to imitate him, and play alongside him".
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo this week, Forlan revealed that he tried to persuade Suarez to reject a move to Anfield. He explained:
"[In 2011], Liverpool made him an offer [but] of course, I told him he should join Manchester United"
This seems to suggest that Alex Ferguson tried to sign Suarez ahead of LFC, which begs the question, why would Suarez reject Man Utd - regular title winners, and always in the Champions League - in favour of an LFC team struggling to maintain a top-six position?
Can you imagine Suarez at Manchester United? With his (prior) cheating antics, he'd fit right in with Rooney, Nani, Young et al, but he'd also inevitably score a shedload of goals, and United would probably be challenging for the league right now.
On a related note: Forlan recently publicly encouraged and condoned Suarez's cheating, which, for me, makes him persona non grata (in a footballing sense). In February, he told The Telegraph:
"He [Suarez] handled the ball on the line. He did it for the team and the world saw it. When the referee showed the red card, Suarez looked at him innocently and asked: 'Me?'. He knew it was him, but there was a 0.1 per cent chance that the referee might not. Suarez took that chance. I realise not everyone agrees with that 'win at any price' attitude, but to us in Uruguay he's a hero".
Absolutely disgraceful and irresponsible comments. No wonder football is in the gutter with ignorant, out-of-touch, morally-corrupt players like Forlan actively encouraging and enabling cheating. Is that what Forlan plans to teach his own children? Lie and cheat to get ahead; who cares, as long as you gain an advantage!
In what perverse universe is someone be a 'hero' for deliberately cheating, and then lying about it to the ref? It's a diseased mind-set, and just provides weak-minded fans with more subconscious justification for defending cheating. And it IS cheating, which is defined by the Oxford dictionary as follows:
"To gain an advantage over and/or deprive of something by using unfair or deceitful methods"
The typical fan excuse is that Suarez merely broke the rules, but in the grand scheme of things, it is cheating, irrespective of what the (narrow and localised) football guidelines state. Suarez deliberately tried to gain an advantage using unfair and deceitful methods, ergo it is cheating.
Suarez is not the issue here, though. That incident is in the past, and he's clearly matured since then, and deserves great credit for that. The issue is the increasingly corrupt mentality of football, and the wilful perversion of fair-play, which promotes a debased 'win at all costs' attitude, all of which is killing the game.
But I digress...
Suarez obviously has good taste in football teams, and despite United's success, he clearly understands that that LFC is, by far, a bigger and better club.
Author: Jaimie K
In 2011, Suarez told France Football:
"Diego Forlan is role model for me. I have great admiration for him.
"When I was fifteen I saw him on TV and wanted to imitate him, and play alongside him".
Speaking to the Liverpool Echo this week, Forlan revealed that he tried to persuade Suarez to reject a move to Anfield. He explained:
"[In 2011], Liverpool made him an offer [but] of course, I told him he should join Manchester United"
This seems to suggest that Alex Ferguson tried to sign Suarez ahead of LFC, which begs the question, why would Suarez reject Man Utd - regular title winners, and always in the Champions League - in favour of an LFC team struggling to maintain a top-six position?
Can you imagine Suarez at Manchester United? With his (prior) cheating antics, he'd fit right in with Rooney, Nani, Young et al, but he'd also inevitably score a shedload of goals, and United would probably be challenging for the league right now.
On a related note: Forlan recently publicly encouraged and condoned Suarez's cheating, which, for me, makes him persona non grata (in a footballing sense). In February, he told The Telegraph:
"He [Suarez] handled the ball on the line. He did it for the team and the world saw it. When the referee showed the red card, Suarez looked at him innocently and asked: 'Me?'. He knew it was him, but there was a 0.1 per cent chance that the referee might not. Suarez took that chance. I realise not everyone agrees with that 'win at any price' attitude, but to us in Uruguay he's a hero".
Absolutely disgraceful and irresponsible comments. No wonder football is in the gutter with ignorant, out-of-touch, morally-corrupt players like Forlan actively encouraging and enabling cheating. Is that what Forlan plans to teach his own children? Lie and cheat to get ahead; who cares, as long as you gain an advantage!
In what perverse universe is someone be a 'hero' for deliberately cheating, and then lying about it to the ref? It's a diseased mind-set, and just provides weak-minded fans with more subconscious justification for defending cheating. And it IS cheating, which is defined by the Oxford dictionary as follows:
"To gain an advantage over and/or deprive of something by using unfair or deceitful methods"
The typical fan excuse is that Suarez merely broke the rules, but in the grand scheme of things, it is cheating, irrespective of what the (narrow and localised) football guidelines state. Suarez deliberately tried to gain an advantage using unfair and deceitful methods, ergo it is cheating.
Suarez is not the issue here, though. That incident is in the past, and he's clearly matured since then, and deserves great credit for that. The issue is the increasingly corrupt mentality of football, and the wilful perversion of fair-play, which promotes a debased 'win at all costs' attitude, all of which is killing the game.
But I digress...
Suarez obviously has good taste in football teams, and despite United's success, he clearly understands that that LFC is, by far, a bigger and better club.
Author: Jaimie K
hahaha.....Suarez is the one that does the cheating and somehow you seem convinced that forlan is the real villian. He has matured though....he only bites now adays. get a grip. Still a class player....thats never in doubt.
ReplyDeleteSince Suarez did "Cheat" as you mentioned, he did get a red card for it, which means he was punished for his "cheating". Ghana did get a penalty , and at that moment they had the advantage. We all know what happened after that.
ReplyDeleteDon't be a pussy....this was done and over with long ago...stand up, dust yourself off, and just play the game.....
Being punished for cheating does not make cheating alright.
ReplyDeleteI was just reading that Tony Kroos has reportedly been telling his chums that he wishes to leave Bayern and join purveyors of Wimbledon FC style long-ball tactics; Man Utd. He must be desperate to fulfill his ambition of lining up alongside Marounne Fellaini in midfield.
ReplyDeleteAnyways Suarez's handball is an example of blatant and cynical cheating, no doubt about it. Boasting about it afterwards and lauding it as an act of heroism, is, in my book, even more distasteful than the incident itself.
Yes, he should be hanged.
ReplyDeleteSatire?
ReplyDeleteSuarez cheats and you blame Forlan. Not that Forlan is correct either, but how you can think that what Forlan said is worse than Suarez did is a joke. To start a campaign against the perverse nature of footballers but blame a side character because the main culprit of your story has "matured" is biased and just plain wrong.
Anyway Suarez epitomises the "win at all costs" mentality, which has led him into trouble many times in the past, when off the field he is considered a friendly educated person. Some people like his mentality and think it a trait of winners, others consider it cheating.
Suarez is a great player, but if you wish to bring up cheating and unethical behaviour on the field, be honest. Accept that he hasn't been a role model to adults or to children, that he has lied and he has cheated and whatever else. Be honest and accept that you, Liverpool fans, prefer to win and be successful then to have the most ethical and well behaved players. Be honest and accept that you have the win at all costs mentality, otherwise Suarez would have been sold along time ago.
Nobody should condone cheating but unfortunately cheating is rife in football. Suarez has been made an example of many times but yet we still see many other players making a mockery of the game. It has been a long road for Suarez but everything he has been through has completely changed the way he behaves on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteThe handball by Suarez vs Ghana should in no way be treated any different to the handball of Tomkins that gave us the penalty vs West Ham but just because it is Suarez his situation will be blown out of proportion and it everybody will act like the world has come to en end and Suarez is the biggest peace of scum on planet earth.
I think that is what Karl Driver was trying to say?
Nobody should condone cheating but unfortunately cheating is rife in football. Suarez has been made an example of many times but yet we still see many other players making a mockery of the game. It has been a long road for Suarez but everything he has been through has completely changed the way he behaves on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteThe handball by Suarez vs Ghana should in no way be treated any different to the handball of Tomkins that gave us the penalty vs West Ham but just because it is Suarez his situation will be blown out of proportion and it everybody will act like the world has come to en end and Suarez is the biggest peace of sc*m on planet earth.
I think that is what Karl Driver was trying to say?
I f*cking hate the word filter. i have replied to your comment twice and both occasions my comment has gone for moderation. For what exactly I do not know. FRUSTRATING!!!
ReplyDeleteGood article, though I do have 1 thing I want to explain. When Suarez handled that ball vs Ghana, how is it any different from a professional foul? I mean yes he should've admitted it, but he did it on purpose to prevent a goal, except in the form of a handball vs a tackle. Its not like he wasn't punished (he got a red card and a pk). He sacrificed his place on the pitch to give his team a second chance.
ReplyDeleteAll fouls are cheating. That's why they are fouls. Diving, handballing, bad tackling, etc all give the other team an advantage, thus there is a punishment. Doing so on purpose merely weighs the options: Is the punishment better or worse than doing nothing? Suarez thought that a pk and going 10 men down was better than letting in a sure goal, so he reacted justly. And I'd like to recall that he wasn't the only Uruguayan to reach for the ball. If the other guy blocked it, this wouldn't be an issue for most people.
Also, Forlan never condoned cheating. He merely said Suarez did what he had to do. He never said he is okay with diving, with professional fouls, etc, just that he respects suarez for having the guts to do so for the sake of his team. People have to realize that suarez isn't blind to the stick he gets from fans. He knows his actions will directly affect this, but he is willing to sacrifice is reputation for the sake of the team.
By the way, notice that I never said anything about the biting or racial abuse, so if you're going to argue that I think Suarez is an angel in all situations, it won't work...
What team do you support may i ask. Lot of people getting jealous cause liverpools top of the league. You sound a bit like a certain jose mourinho, sour grapes. Lol
ReplyDeleteWell said my friend.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I just need to get a run down on how the word filter on your site operates. Words like 'pussy' can get through yet in both my replies to FdotM there is not one word that can be classified as inappropriate.
ReplyDeleteJust very confusing as well as frustrating when you you reply to someone in a proper manner only for your comment to be held back?
On a sidenote, imagine the reaction if it was Suarez bought down instead of Flanno at weekend...press would have had a field day and another reason to bring up past. He plays on the edge, but that's what makes him great and am glad he's in our red. Despite his past indiscretions he is an absolute pleasure to watch...sorry but his football ability way outweighs it all in my mind and lets hope he fires us to title glory and is around for years to come.
ReplyDeleteWhat a prospect seeing him and sturridge terrorising teams in champs league next season.
what the hell has just happened, started off as a article about forlan convincing suarez to join united.Then turned into a rant about cheating footballers???? On another note, if suarez did that in the 90th minute of a champions league final for lfc tell me you wouldnt love him for it ?
ReplyDeleteNo, I wouldn't 'love him' for it? Why is it so hard for people to understand that cheating is wrong?! Just because it gives your team an advantage doesn't make it right. I sincerely doubt you'd be so supportive of cheating in the 90th minute of Champions League final is LFC were on the receiving end, and lost as a result.
ReplyDeleteWhat if, this Sunday, it's 1-1 in the 93rd minute, and a Man City player dives to win a penalty? Are you going to be this magnanimous about it? No.
I didn't say 'what Forlan said is worse that what Suarez did', so where you got that from is anyone's guess.
ReplyDeleteAh, yes, because I've never criticised Suarez for cheating in the past...
ReplyDeleteCheating really isn't cheating unless the person gets away with giving his team an advantage. Suarez didn't get away with it...he was punished with a red and conceded a pk.
ReplyDeleteIf a dive was the difference on Sunday, then that meant the other guy got away clean. No punishment, actually a punishment on the wrong team (a pk).
I mean no offense Jaimie, but in my opinion you are missing a key part of the situation: The punishment.
If someone dived on Sunday and the ref caught it, he would give a card and the pk would not stand. Same for Suarez. He was caught cheating on purpose and was sent off, even putting his team in a huge rut. However, he valued the lead more than having a full 11 men on the field, so he gave his team a second chance.
By the way, it was a great article nonetheless. As long as these debates don't grow out of control with rudeness and trolls, I'd enjoy more debate oriented articles, even if this wasn't mean to be one. A kind of "What do you think?" article based on various current footballing events.
Hi there - I never take offence at people disagreeing with me in a civil manner :-)
ReplyDeleteUsing your logic, though: if X kills Y, and gets away with it, then he's can't really be labelled a murderer. That can't be right, surely?
I happen to agree with cheating being wrong.
ReplyDeleteMy question is, what constitutes cheating in football based on the definition referenced?
If someone commits a foul (any foul), is that cheating?
If someone unintentionally handles the ball, is that cheating?
If someone dives, and gets carded for it, is that cheating?
If someone dives and draws a penalty for it, is that cheating?
If someone touches the ball out of bounds and claims they weren't the last touch it, is that cheating?
If someone complains to the ref to try and convince him to give a card to the other team, is that cheating?
If someone jumps in the air, punches the goalkeeper, knocks the ball loose, and watches his teammate score... is that cheating?
I guess, my question comes down to what is cheating and what is "part of the game".
I'd be curious to know what others thoughts are on this.
No, but the victim would have gotten a fair recompense. The focus is too much on that suarez cheated and not that he was also punished. Should he have done it in the first place? That is up to what suarez values more. But the fact is that he was punished. Should the punishment be different for an intentional foul? May be, but the fact stands that Suarez received the correct punishment, and the opposing team failed to take advantage of that. The pk miss was hardly Suarez's fault. And if it was, I'm sure Suarez would've been punished even more.
ReplyDeleteJaimie thats life. How many decisions have went again'st us this season, man city and chelsea ring a bell. Two games that decisions went again'st. As they say what goes around comes around.
ReplyDeleteReferencing those two games in particular with my previous thoughts elsewhere in this thread...
ReplyDeleteDoes Eto' fouling Suarez and not being called for it or admitting to it, is that cheating?
How about Mourinho's comments about the "kings of diving"... is that cheating? Couldn't it be argued he's trying to influence ref decisions?
What about when Sterling was called offside when he was clearly on... by Man City not admitting it, were they cheating?
For me, cheating - as per the definition - is when someone deliberately attempts to deceive the referee and gain an advantage for their team. Additionally, the punishment is irrelevant to the question of whether someone cheated. Just because someone receives a card doesn't mean the nature of their action retroactively changes.
ReplyDeleteUsing your examples above:
* Lots of fouls are just part and parcel of football; there's no real intentional malice; just bad timing etc. There are also fouls that are deliberate, and that is arguably a form of cheating.
* Unintentional handball isn't cheating as there's no intent to deceive.
Basically, any intention to deceive/trick/fool/con the referee and gain an advantage for your team = (IMO) cheating.
Like most things, though, there are different levels of cheating, and those incidents that have the biggest ability to subvert the result of a game should be prioritised, i.e. diving/feigning injury/intention to injure another player etc.
If someone tries to fool the ref into thinking a throw-in is theirs when it's blatantly the other team's, that is a form of cheating, but it's minor, and isn't likely to have a massive impact on the game. Diving to win a penalty, or deliberate handball on the line, can and will change the game, and can rob teams of deserved victory.
It's only 'life' because fans are happy to accept and condone cheating, and have done for years, to the extent it's now see as no big deal. If fans were vehemently and vocally against cheating, and booed their own players for doing it, things would be different. Fans are the great enablers, and various fanbases across the world are to blame for football being in the gutter.
ReplyDeleteIf a team loses in the World Cup final as a result of blatant cheating, what difference does it make if the player who cheated gets punished? The game is gone. The chance to be immortalised forever is destroyed. Years of hard work down the pan. Punishment makes no difference at all as the player who received the punishment still goes home with a WC winner's medal, and will forever be remembered as a winner of that tournament.
ReplyDeleteIt's like going to prison and having your own private penthouse suite.
If X kills Y and gets away with it he is a murderer. Suarez didn't get away with the handball (he got a pk and sent off). In your example, the City player would have gotten away with the dive, and labeled a diver (something Suarez looks to be trying to shed...hopefully).
ReplyDeleteIf X kills Y, but is caught and tried and punished, is he a murderer? Yes, but also calling suarez a cheater goes into more of what you and I define a word as, which I will go into at the risk of sounding like a stubborn idiot :)
The label murderer describes the action X did, no matter the punishment. Same as diver. Regardless if the footballer was caught, he dove, so he is a diver. However, based on my definition of cheating (getting away with giving a team an advantage), Suarez cannot be labeled a cheater if he did not cheat (he did not get away with it). He could be a diver, or a hand-baller (if you really chose to call him that) because he actually did those things. But the fact that he did not get away with giving his team an advantage (punishment) proves that, by my definition, he is not a cheater. HOWEVER, if one believes that cheating is giving your team an advantage PERIOD regardless of being caught, then yes suarez is very much a cheater.
Interesting POV, but I have to again disagree.
ReplyDelete* If X deliberately kills Y, and is caught and punished, X can legitimately be called a 'murderer', or a 'killer'. And even after X is released from prison, he can still legitimately be called a murderer, as the punishment doesn't change the nature of what he did in the past.
* I don't see how the fact that Suarez didn't 'get away' with cheating doesn't make him a cheat. Even if the action doesn't give the team a discernible advantage, the intention to deceive still exists.
* What if X is a serial diver, and wins his team 10 penalties in one season as a result, and five of them are missed. Does the fact that 5 penalties were missed make X any less of a cheat?
Forlan's comment could be a jokey one recognising the enmity (apologies to dim wit) between the two clubs. I doubt it means there was an alternative offer to join Manu otherwise I suspect he might well have gone there instead, for the reasons you give.
ReplyDeleteAs for the cheating I agree but as someone else has said cheating is rife in (life as well as) football.
JK, you've already been told by @Karl Driver to stop being a pussy...when are you going to get the message!?!?!?!?!?
ReplyDeleteUnacceptable behaviour from you, JK.
I know, I just don't know when I'm told.
ReplyDeleteI bet you you could give Oliver Cromwell a run for his money mate...
ReplyDeleteLet him without sin cast the first stone
ReplyDeletesuarez has matured and deserves great credit??? lmfao!!!
ReplyDeleteyes, well done Luis for not having bitten or racially abused anyone recently.....
this author really is full of crap and thinks he's always right...rarely ever is in reality
:D agree to disagree...no shame in that...But I will explain myself 1 more time since admittedly I confused myself rereading my comment.
ReplyDeleteThe main problem is whether or not the fact that a person got away with something affects an action. In terms of killing or diving, it doesn't. Even handballing, once its done its done, like you note. The definition of murdering is killing someone PERIOD, and diving is simulation PERIOD. However, in my eyes cheating requires there to be no punishment. I'm not saying punishment is what defines bad actions like diving or murdering, but it IS a major part of defining cheating, again imo. I think we agree that the 1st part of defining cheating is obtaining an unfair advantage. However, I think a 2nd part would be without punishment. The purpose of a punishment is to repay the victim for whatever was done, and/or to take away the advantage. If an advantage is taken away, then obviously there is no advantage, and the test would fail part one. If someone is caught and punished trying to gain advantage, that means they failed to gain an advantage, and thus failed at cheating.
I realize that it might be confusing because I've confused myself thinking about it before. I have actually thought about this very topic a lot (not specifically suarez, but cheating within all sports) and this is what I finally concluded. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but at least hear me out and try to understand :)
1. its a she
ReplyDelete2. He's pretty much cut diving out of his repertoire and hasn't been in the media for any negative reason for almost a year.
3. She's right more than you are.
jk about 1...was going to say something sarcastic but I hit enter and can't edit as a guest...
ReplyDeleteWhat a strange article to be posting right now...
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of cheating, anyone been watching Chelsea play French Chelsea? Fair amount of cheating, diving and general skulduggery going on. God how I loathe chelski
ReplyDeleteWhoever said cheats never prosper was a mug
ReplyDeleteFunny thing some in the press were trying to insinuate that Suarez intentionally aimed for the hand of the defender for the penalty he won. LOL
ReplyDeleteOne can only imagine what the filter is.
ReplyDeletePosted that because I thought there was some targeted filter to certain individuals, hehe, guess that test proved that theory wrong. Really, can't seem to figure out what triggers auto-moderation.
ReplyDeleteAs far as what Forlan teaches his Kids, I can only hope it's the same thing that was passed down from his grandfather, to his father, and then to him. 3 generations of Copa America Winners - must be something in the teaching.
ReplyDeleteQuestion if the reffing is poor, and one sided, can two wrongs not make a right? Case in point the free kick leading to the handball was one of the most blatant dives in history - unfair advantage. Suarez's action corrected that - after a penalty, and being kicked out of the game, and missing the semi.
Reminds me of the story, I think it's true, of Cantona being linked to Liverpool before moving onto Leeds, and then Man U.. And we know how that worked out. Let's hope Suarez can inspire the Reds to similar success in the years to come.
ReplyDeletePoor JK is always having to argue with people on here...
ReplyDeleteForget players cheating, look to clubs, countries, referees and God forbid the pundits. In my opinion it is very childish, immature and even cowardly to pick on the smallest target for a story. If you want to eradicate cheating go after the real cheats but remember you will have a real fight on your hands, are you up to it?
ReplyDeleteIs Oxlade Chamberlain not a big enough star to get the same vitriolic criticism?
ReplyDeleteHe went to ground before contact with Gerrard in 5-1 game, deliberately handled a goal bound shot recently, but FA copped out again because "it was going wide".
Reus dived tonight after similar amount of contact that Dzeko went down for at weekend. Reus was booked, Dzeko rewarded.
Schurrle threw himself at a defender tonight also trying to win a penalty.......
The nature of the sport is that a win counts for everything and the authorities won't address shortcoming either retrospectively or with live replays.
I used to watch football with my brother all the time, but he stopped watching and focused on rugby because the use of technology and the lower level of injustice
Froze on me there.
ReplyDeleteMy bro no longer watches soccer, and he reminded me why when Andy Carroll's antics went unpunished at the weekend. We were both visiting my parents at the time, he was watching Leinster in rugger.
The World Cup situation is evocative and an injustice there is of course massively magnified - Thierry Henry handball comes to mind - I still hate him for that :(
But you are talking about a competition that is being staged in Russia, a country that persists with persecuting homosexuals, and can annex another nations territory at free will, yet we turn a blind eye and Qatar - a country that would be nothing only for our dependence on oil, scores of workers on World Cup projects dying from over working all the time
Why don't you turn your obvious intelligence and measured notoriety to do some good and articulate why all these problems exist.
ReplyDeleteFIFA are to blame. We don't even know what offside is anymore or even handball. Referees have different interpretations of the same incidents.
Referees, sometime in late 40s, are somehow supposed to keep pace with Raheem Sterling on counter attack after running onto a 70 yard pass.
Linesmen are supposed to be able to interpret offside in high pressured situations with one viewing.
How about we target the rule makers?
Blaming players is a ridiculously simplistic approach
BY FAR a bigger and better club? Eaten bread is soon forgotten I guess. This article was worth a laugh though. Suarez would have ended up another Tevez at United, he did well going to a lower team to build. Now he's ready to join Madrid...
ReplyDeleteLove the ending statement :)
ReplyDeleteThat's not cheating, get over it. A hand ball is a hand ball and nothing
ReplyDeletemore than that. There is a referee there for a reason and he saw the
incident and punished it, end of story. If he does that again he will
again get a red card and move. If a team is confident of saving
penalties then it can concede penalties all day long, its not cheating.
These are the rules of the game. But the fact is Ghana went out because
they bottled it from 12 yards and are now being cowards about it. You
compare this incident to murder and other offences which just shows how
childish you are.
@karl Driver is right actually, JK just likes to ride his high horse.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that he "cheated" is so silly. He intentionally broke a rule and took the punished dictated. If intentionally breaking a rule is "cheating," that would mean that every time a midfielder makes a "professional foul" to slow down an opponent's attack they are guilty of cheating. In many team sports, players are regularly presented with the choice of breaking a rule and accepting the punishment, or don't break the rule and allow the play to unfold. Good professionals know when to select the first and when to select the second. Suarez was absolutely correct to accept the red card and penalty kick in exchange for preventing the goal. If you don't think its a fair outcome, blame the rule not the player.
ReplyDeletebecause the interpretation of his articles at times is completely stupid. Why even draw any conclusion to what was said yrs ago?
ReplyDeleteDo you ever get teased in other disqus forums, because your name is 'United fan'?
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I completely agree with you. Deliberately breaking the rules to achieve an end is cheating. No two ways about it. Also, it's great that Suarez is behaving properly these days. I'm starting to think I should join the site so that I can take part in these debates more regularly.
ReplyDelete