Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers is doing a fantastic job this season, and in 2014, the Reds are producing Premier League-winning form, which is a testament to the manager's impact at the club. Rodgers appears to have the full backing of FSG, but it seems that the club's owners were on the verge of sacking him last season.
In a radio interview this week, Dutch legend Ronald De Boer (RDB) revealed that FSG approached his brother, Ajax manager Frank De Boer (FDB), about taking over at Anfield. He explained:
"Frank has already denied Liverpool and Tottenham. Tottenham wanted to take him in January but Frank said no. He also said no to Liverpool last year [2013]".
Last year it was 2013; Rodgers joined Liverpool in 2012, and unless RDB is lying (why would he?), this means that FSG tried replace the manager last season. I don't think I'm misinterpreting the comments here. RDB clearly states that FDB 'said no to Liverpool last year'. The interview took place this week, ergo FSG wanted to get rid of Rodgers last season.
As such, this is (IMO) pretty treacherous behaviour from John Henry et al, and echoes the Jurgen Klinnsman-Rafa Benitez debacle under Hicks and Gillett The group sneakily went behind Rodgers' back, and tried to secure a new manager on the sly. If they'd achieved that, they obviously would've sacked the manager. Additionally, Ian Ayre must have known about it; I don't see how FSG could pursue new managers from the USA without Ayre's input.
It's likely that FSG approached FDB only months into Rodgers' first season, when Liverpool were struggling to stay in the top-half of the table (with FDB actually saying NO in 2013). Indeed, reports from last season add more weight to this theory. In February 2013 French newspaper Le Parisien, claimed:
"According to our information, Carlo Ancelotti was approached in November and December by three Premier League clubs including Manchester City and Liverpool"
After the previous poor season under Kenny Dalglish, it seems likely that FSG panicked after Liverpool's poor start under Rodgers, and consequently decided that they'd made a mistake in hiring him. And let's be clear here: the only reason Rodgers is still at Anfield is seemingly because FDB turned down the job. If he'd said yes, there'd be a different manager in the Liverpool hot-seat right now. FDB still harbours an ambition to manager LFC one day. In a recent interview, he told the BBC:
"Those two clubs (Liverpool or Tottenham) are clubs that I think in the future I could be a manager of. I think the history of the clubs and what you can do with the team is my cup of tea"
Hypothetically, I wonder what LFC would look like right now if FDB had taken over? Would the Reds be title contenders right now? Would Coutinho and Sturridge be at the club? Probably not, but it's likely that Christian Eriksen would be an LFC player, as well as several other Ajax players.
I also wonder what Rodgers makes of all this. I'm sure he's aware of RDB's comments, and it must give him pause to realise that his employers (initially) showed such little faith, and actively tried to replace him.
FSG must be relieved that their plan to usurp the manager failed. Liverpool are on a massive upward spiral, which is exemplified by the fact that Rodgers has transformed the club into genuine Premier League title contenders.
It's definitely a warning for Rodgers, though. The club's owners clearly have a ruthless streak (the merciless termination of Kenny Dalglish's contract is more evidence of this), and if things go pear-shaped at any point, BR would do well to watch his back.
-------
EDIT: Gosh, as usual, fans ignore the self-evident truth, and go on the attack. Lots of comments deleted so far from people who can't hack the reality that FSG tried to get rid of Rodgers. If you can't disagree in a civil manner, your comment will be deleted.
This is an important issue, and I'm not going to ignore things like this just because LFC are doing well in the league. I don't agree with LFC's approach, as I make clear in the article. If you want a site that just toes the company line, and spouts blind-faith, then you're welcome to go elsewhere.
Author: Jaimie K
In a radio interview this week, Dutch legend Ronald De Boer (RDB) revealed that FSG approached his brother, Ajax manager Frank De Boer (FDB), about taking over at Anfield. He explained:
"Frank has already denied Liverpool and Tottenham. Tottenham wanted to take him in January but Frank said no. He also said no to Liverpool last year [2013]".
Last year it was 2013; Rodgers joined Liverpool in 2012, and unless RDB is lying (why would he?), this means that FSG tried replace the manager last season. I don't think I'm misinterpreting the comments here. RDB clearly states that FDB 'said no to Liverpool last year'. The interview took place this week, ergo FSG wanted to get rid of Rodgers last season.
As such, this is (IMO) pretty treacherous behaviour from John Henry et al, and echoes the Jurgen Klinnsman-Rafa Benitez debacle under Hicks and Gillett The group sneakily went behind Rodgers' back, and tried to secure a new manager on the sly. If they'd achieved that, they obviously would've sacked the manager. Additionally, Ian Ayre must have known about it; I don't see how FSG could pursue new managers from the USA without Ayre's input.
It's likely that FSG approached FDB only months into Rodgers' first season, when Liverpool were struggling to stay in the top-half of the table (with FDB actually saying NO in 2013). Indeed, reports from last season add more weight to this theory. In February 2013 French newspaper Le Parisien, claimed:
"According to our information, Carlo Ancelotti was approached in November and December by three Premier League clubs including Manchester City and Liverpool"
After the previous poor season under Kenny Dalglish, it seems likely that FSG panicked after Liverpool's poor start under Rodgers, and consequently decided that they'd made a mistake in hiring him. And let's be clear here: the only reason Rodgers is still at Anfield is seemingly because FDB turned down the job. If he'd said yes, there'd be a different manager in the Liverpool hot-seat right now. FDB still harbours an ambition to manager LFC one day. In a recent interview, he told the BBC:
"Those two clubs (Liverpool or Tottenham) are clubs that I think in the future I could be a manager of. I think the history of the clubs and what you can do with the team is my cup of tea"
Hypothetically, I wonder what LFC would look like right now if FDB had taken over? Would the Reds be title contenders right now? Would Coutinho and Sturridge be at the club? Probably not, but it's likely that Christian Eriksen would be an LFC player, as well as several other Ajax players.
I also wonder what Rodgers makes of all this. I'm sure he's aware of RDB's comments, and it must give him pause to realise that his employers (initially) showed such little faith, and actively tried to replace him.
FSG must be relieved that their plan to usurp the manager failed. Liverpool are on a massive upward spiral, which is exemplified by the fact that Rodgers has transformed the club into genuine Premier League title contenders.
It's definitely a warning for Rodgers, though. The club's owners clearly have a ruthless streak (the merciless termination of Kenny Dalglish's contract is more evidence of this), and if things go pear-shaped at any point, BR would do well to watch his back.
-------
EDIT: Gosh, as usual, fans ignore the self-evident truth, and go on the attack. Lots of comments deleted so far from people who can't hack the reality that FSG tried to get rid of Rodgers. If you can't disagree in a civil manner, your comment will be deleted.
This is an important issue, and I'm not going to ignore things like this just because LFC are doing well in the league. I don't agree with LFC's approach, as I make clear in the article. If you want a site that just toes the company line, and spouts blind-faith, then you're welcome to go elsewhere.
Author: Jaimie K
Could he have meant 'last year' as in the 12/13 season? Possible....
ReplyDeleteMaybe he is just throwing a cat among the pigeons for fun? Or maybe FDB fancies the job now, so RDB is trying to unsettle things?
Talk about spinning a line out of a whole slip of the tongue. Common sense would tell you he meant summer 2012. It was even reported in the papers at the time that De Boer was a candidate for the job. To talk about treachery off the back of this - well to be honest you are just trolling for clicks. Not your finest hour.
ReplyDeleteA complete waste of an article and time.
ReplyDeletePointless.
This article is not beneficial to LFC - surprising from a 'Pool fan. Stirring trouble where there is none, with the club in a fantastic position. Typical journo.
ReplyDeletewhy shit on your own door step?
ReplyDeletePlease stop this JK, you know very well he's talking about summer 2012. Everyone knows De Boer was contacted then, at the same time as Rodgers, Martinez etc.
ReplyDeleteWe were maybe looking for a Director of Football last year, but I'd be surprised if we were in for a head coach, though the reality is that owners are always on the hunt for coaches and managers, everywhere except Arsenal now.
ReplyDeleteYou're better than this Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteCould not be that he had a senior moment and meant the previous year?
ReplyDeleteThis is an existing story. We know that Liverpool approached De Boer around the same time they were talking to Rodgers. There was some talk of him being a director of football type figure. Alternatively what you're saying is that Liverpool approached De Boer twice and he turned them down twice. That would be something that would get mentioned if it was the case. I doubt it is. There is plenty of opportunity here to see that Ronald is just over-stating the fact that we already knew.
ReplyDeleteAs for the sacking of Kenny ... there is no room for mercy or charity at LFC so to say that his sacking was merciless is a bit redundant. He was in charge of the club for 18 months, given a big wad of cash to spend and made some atrocious mistakes. At the end even a bunch of Americans could see that our team was going downhill. The second half of his last season was some of Liverpool's worst football in recent history. There is no need to be ruthless to sack a manager in that position, it was just common sense.
Never decide to comment on any article anywhere but just had to with this one! He meant 12/13 season after they sacked dalglish! Please don't make stories from such insignificant points it does make it rather disappointing especially considering your supposed to be professional not to mention a liverpool fan.
ReplyDeleteYou are seriously in denial. Learn to read: Ronald De Boer stated that he said no to Liverpool LAST YEAR. That is a fact. It is right in front of your face, yet you still refuse to believe it. Get a grip.
ReplyDeleteAh yes, a man in his early 40s has a 'senior moment'. Why do people have such a hard time accepting what's right in front of their face?
ReplyDeleteBefore i went calling it back-stabbing I would need a lot more information regarding how serious the approach was. We were struggling at the time and a lot of people were doubting Rodgers ability.
ReplyDeleteIf we went on a United-esque slide and the manager was sacked in the summer, surely its more responsible to have someone lined up to replace him, instead of starting the search after his dismissal.
This all to me sounds like it could have been "the first enquiry after the possibilty of thinking about maybe sometime in the future the need may arise to replace the manager.... one day."
Its not like formal interviews were conducted. More like a mid level official putting out a feeler at some juncet or something and I'm sure Rodgers is under no illusions as to how the business of football works today. Can't see him taking this to heart.
Obviously he turned it around and no knee-jerk reactions were taken which is great. But If he had not turned it around, and we slid into mediocrity again and no strategy had been worked on to replace him, that could also be as bad.
How can he be talking about the summer of 2012 when he said 'last year' in an INETERVIEW THAT TOOK PLACE THIS WEEK?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, stop burying your head in the sand. Just because you can't handle the truth doesn't mean it's not factual.
I'm not saying LFC approached him twice. What I've stated in this article is 100% factual. RDB states that FDB said no to LFC 'last year'. It's 2014. Last year was 2013. The fact that people can't handle the obvious truth is the amusing thing here.
ReplyDeleteI haven't made anything up. If De Boer meant 2012, he would've said that. Indeed, in the same interview, he was very specific about the timeframe in which Spurs approached De Boer:
“Tottenham wanted to take him in January, but Frank said no"
Jaimie your article sais this "It is likely that FSG approached De Boer only months into Roders' first season, when Liverpool were struggling to stay in the top half of the table". That would mean they approached him in 2012 then, doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteIt's quite funny that you admit the possiblity that De Boer just made a mistake saying 'last year' meaning end 2012 but not summer 2012.
oh the irony!
ReplyDeleteAnd Ronald de boer is immune to making a mistake? Somehow I don't think so after all he is human just like the rest if us. And as for comments like "learn to read" I'm actually a regular visitor to your website so the least you can do is be respectful as I have done with my comments somehow I seem to have offended you which was not my intention
ReplyDeleteYes, they may have approached him in 2012, but FDB clearly turned them down in 2013, as his brother attests.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you try and twist things? it's obvious what I mean. And even if they approached in the latter stages of 2012, Rodgers was the manager! A point you conveniently ignore.
Lol
ReplyDeleteWhy would RDB make a mistake? Like so many others, when you (and many others) don't like or agree with the info presented, you attack it, and try and find any way to discredit it. This is typical fan behaviour, and it's being exhibited on this thread once again.
ReplyDeleteIf you agreed with something RDB said, you wouldn't be arguing that he 'made a mistake', would you? And I am not offended in the slightest.
If you're upset about my comment, then sorry, but you initially cast aspersion on my status as a fan and a 'professional'. If you can't handle the response, perhaps you should reconsider the way you comment.
The article is clear and factual. As noted above, you just don't like the idea that FSG wanted to get rid of Rodgers.
this is nonsense and the true definition of lazy journalism... look for more catching stories...
ReplyDeleteAgree with others that he meant last season. Sorry, have to say one of your worst posts, leave it to the tabloids to try and cause problems in the camp. A few have been trying with wrong headlines about how we might fall foul of ffp and not be in champs league...which is totally wrong.
ReplyDeleteI respect your right for criticism over various stages/games of the season. But this really is a non-story at a very positive and vital stage in what has been a good campaign... maybe yet to be great.
What indication is there that he meant 2012/13? He was specific about Spurs' interest in FDB, and stated that they tried to get him 'in January', yet RDB somehow gets it totally wrong about LFC? What is the likelihood of that? If his interview took place in January, perhaps that might be a possibility. It's March.
ReplyDeleteMy comment was rejected all I said was one of your worst articles at a very positive time of the season
ReplyDeleteAnd you are adamantly sure Ancelotti isn't lying, boasting or made a possible mistake? Or you have spoken to him or FSG directly to confirm that or you are making one and another to make a deduction. Why do you have to think you are always 100% correct? Oh wait, because it's your site.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't have to mean calendar year wen he says last year he can mean last year as in football season and that makes it 12/13 which is when rodgers got appointed and they were considering their options and if I was goin to attack u I would phrases such as "get a grip" and "learn to read" as u so kindly put it! As for typical behaviour I think u exhibit that the most every "journo" thinks wat they write is 100% true and accurate!
ReplyDeleteThis is poison... Your articles are usually enjoyable but the way you seem to be clutching to the facts makes you seem a little in-mature. Its only the beginning of 2014 and and people use the phrase "last year", not as factual as you seem to... I hope you dont get offended its just my take on the situation.
ReplyDeleteAncelotti? What are you on about? I haven't posted any comment from Ancelotti. I've posted a comment from Ronald De Boer, who is by all accounts, an honourable man. Why would he lie? Why do you cast aspersions against his character with no evidence whatsoever? What possible motive does he have to lie?
ReplyDeleteIs Frank De Boer a liar too? He's confirmed in the past that LFC approached him. As usual, you are just another fan who can't hack the truth, and will do anything to discredit info they don't like, even when the source is credible and factual.
Seriously, why don't you just stop visiting this site if you don't like the views espoused here?
I quite often refer to last season as last year. And I've heard others do that same. Just a thought, that was all...
ReplyDeleteRight, so in March 2014, RDB says 'last year' to refer to the summer of 2012, before Rodgers even got appointed? Are you listening to yourself? The lengths fans will go to convince themselves of something is staggering.
ReplyDeleteLets get a couple of things straight. As you rightly underline, RDB is very precise when talking about Tottenham's approach and clearly states 'January'. Why isn't he as precise when talking about Liverpool? If his brother had said no to Liverpool in january, he would have said "Franck also said no to Liverpool in January". If FSG approached FDB in 2012, how does it make sense for him to turn them down in February and after ?
ReplyDeleteThat leaves us with the possibility that Liverpool approached FDB in 2013 which makes absolutely no sense either, as the team was in great form at the time.
I take your point, Will, but come on (!) Are we to believe that when RDB said 'last year', he's referring to 2012? And if he did, when during that season? Prior to Rodgers being appointed in the summer, or the first few months of season?
ReplyDeleteIf it's the first few months of the season then it's exactly the same thing (!): FSG tried toget rid of Rodgers only a few months after hiring him.
If it's not that, to argue that RDB - a man of sound mind in his early 40s - is referring to the summer of 2012 when he says 'last year' is stretching credibility, don't you think?
Well last year in terms of football season can definitely mean summer 2012 I think u need to take your own advice mate and "listen to yourself"
ReplyDeleteThe team was not in great form until the second half of the season, from January onwards. It makes perfect sense that FSG approached him in, say, November/December. He considered the move, but turned it down in Jan/Feb 2013. Other reports at the time add weight to this contention.
ReplyDeleteWhat is not credible is that RDB meant 2012 (presumably, the summer of 2012, when LFC were replacing Dalglish), when he said 'last year'.
RDB said 'last year', and he said this in March 2014. Ask any objective person unaffected by rampaging pro-LFC bias, and they will say that 'lst year' means...last year (i.e. 2013). They won't try and construct some elaborate, barely credible way to argue that 'last year' actually means two years ago.
ReplyDeleteLast year clearly in football terms means last season. Not really a story just gossip thats needed in current position. Even if it was true its not uncommon in football.
ReplyDeleteIf RDB said 'season' instead of 'year', that makes 5 months of 2012/13 season relevant, starting from and including August. In this instance one word can make a world of difference. It also doesn't make much sense because Rodgers was financially supported by the club in January 2013, making two big impact signings. Everything went up from there and that makes a post January 2013 sacking less probable.
ReplyDeleteI've read all the comments so I'm not trying to make an excuse. I think it's entirely possible that RDB said 'year' instead of 'season'.
Even if it was last season, Rodgers was still the manager of LFC! It still mean FSG tried to get rid in the first months of BR's reign. Why do people overlook this point? Some fans are so wrapped up in pointless semantics that they can't see the wood for the trees.
ReplyDeleteOkay, Pete. Fair enough. Let's say that RDB meant 'last season'. How does that change anything? It still means that FSG tried to replace Rodgers after only a few months into the job (from August 2012 to December), which is exactly what I've argued in the article. What's the difference? The point here is that FSG seemingly didn't have faith in BR in the early months, and tried to get rid of him, which is pretty poor form. But for being turned down, Rodgers might not be at Anfield right now.
ReplyDeleteOk they might of tried to get rid of Rodgers....we move on. Shoud'nt have been mentioned by the de Boers.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. Would be better if they didn't mention it, but stuff like this has a habit of getting out.
ReplyDeleteThe interview also says that he wasn't ready, and wanted to learn, and that no he is ready.
ReplyDeleteSo maybe FDB is trying to unsettle things, because RDB wants a new job?
Rodgers was under pressure and didn't have the best season, so maybe they did explore some avenues. But ultimately they stuck with him, and that's what really matters.
JK it was his brother that gave the interview and in all likelihood he meant 2012. I think your title is slightly provocative in that you indicate the owners 'Back stabbed' Rodgers. You get upset when people oppose your opinion, but some fans won't take too kindly to any negativity towards the owners, especially at the moment as it appears as though the chance they took on Rodgers as an up and coming manager has paid off. Also, it's hardly fair to say that one interview is proof that Rodgers was going to be sacked.
ReplyDeleteI have always liked the way you handle the truth, but I think that this time you may have jumped at a sentence too early without any concrete proof. You cannot take a man's word just as it is without any possibility of ambiguity in the sense of time period. Some people don't really remember time that well, and some people are just very general about time. It's true that he was very specific about Tottenham but not about Liverpool. So it could mean anything. I'm not certain that you are wrong, but how can you be certain that you are right to say that? It's unfair to judge another person's integrity or character by one other person's comment that is not fully quantified. It's not logical to fully defend the owners but it's also not right to accuse them without concrete proof. One sentence can be said too easily and one sentence can be misinterpreted too easily. And the media more often than not misrepresent the facts. We have to be careful in what we are saying so that we do not discredit someone easily. Just my humble opinion. Thanks for all the wonderful articles you have written. I really like your direct opinions and how you are not a biased Liverpool fan. Keep it up!
ReplyDeleteWith respect, I don't get 'upset' when people oppose my view. They're not opposing my view, they're calling RDB a liar and/or suggesting he's mentally impaired in some way that he doesn't realise what he's saying (!)
ReplyDeleteI merely back up my POV, which is based on solid, credible evidence. What should I do? Just back down because people disagree?
Why 'in all likelihood' did RDB mean 2012? Why 'in all likelihood' does he not mean 2013, which is the obvious, and most likely interpretation?
Simple: people don't want to believe or accept the truth. And again: even if he meant 2012, it doesn't change anything.
I agree with your initial point, it's clear that FSG tried to replace Rodgers. That's a very interesting discussion.
ReplyDeleteBut the difference is you are relentlessly highlighting the 'fact' that RDB said 'year' instead of 'season'. Rodgers did not have the greatest start and although I don't like it, it is understandable that FSG looked for an escape. However, since January 2013 I'd think that Rodgers has been backed 100% by FSG, players and fans, and on that basis alone I maintain that RDB simply said the wrong word because otherwise it doesn't make much sense at all.
Jaimie, you run a constantly negative website. Best to leave him/her to it folks.
ReplyDeleteRedPaul - thanks for your comments. If you can give me one credible reason why I shouldn't take RDB's word at face value, I'm willing to listen. If you can provide any evidence of manifest ambiguity in RDB's comments, then I'm all ears.
ReplyDeleteYou should ask yourself *why* you're so adamant that RDB is making a mistake and/or is confused about the timeline. Are you viewing his comments objectively, or is there pro LFC bias getting in the way?
I am an LFC fan, but I don't let my personal feelings about the club get in the way of interpreting comments that appear to be totally unambiguous.
I'm not saying your approach is wrong; I totally understand it. We just see things differently.
Indeed, the modern era internet,twitter,24hr media etc. A lot of sounding out of managers has happened in the old 1st division days....difference is you didn't hear as much about it. A lot came out when players/mangers retired. Not saying I agree they tried to replace him...anyhow don't think Rodgers will be too worried, def has there backing now...he was a gamble for them at the time remember. Let's see who comes out the woodwork being approached for Moyes position ;)
ReplyDeleteRDB said 'last year'. Why am I wrong to highlight that? The whole argument against this is predicated on the (unproven and unbacked) notion that RDB somehow got it wrong with his choice of words. Where is the evidence of that? Why is it not possible that he actually meant what he said?
ReplyDeleteI've already explained why IMO he said the wrong word. Think about it, the logic behind the decision, Rodgers was backed in the January window and we got results on the pitch, where is the window of opportunity (in FSG's eyes) to sack Rodgers and install FDB after January 2013?
ReplyDeleteYou're not wrong to highlight it, but it doesn't have to be so excessive. 'Last season' referring from August to December would make a lot more sense.
Jk you arse talking trash mate. I can't actually believe your opinion appeared on a newsfeed. Wtf. Last yr mean last season, so at the same time as Rodgers. And it wasn't even a secret you mong, we tried to get FDB as director of football at the same time as Rodgers as manager. Rodgers said he would not take the job if we had a director of football so lfc dropped their interest in FDB. Please don't write your misguided opinions in public ever again
ReplyDeleteAnd as noted, if it's August to December, the overall point is the same: FSG tried to get rid of Rodgers in the first few months of his reign, which is exactly what is argued in the article.
ReplyDeleteWe'll just have to agree to disagree on the meaning of 'last year'.
As mentioned above you maybe right and he was sounded out during Rodgers tenure, sure he would clarify exactly when approached if asked. However, this obviously is just a manager letting it be known he is available for bigger job...a familiar ploy used by stating big clubs were interested in him.
ReplyDeleteI think it changes a lot Jaimie, as it is common knowledge we were actively looking for a new manager after KD's sacking in 2012. By insinuating we approached FDB last year it implies the owners have acted dishonorably. Again, as we are doing so well at the moment, partly thanks to the owners, it gives the impression that you may be finding something negative to say about them when we should all happy that the team/club have progressed very well under the current owners. Just an observation.
ReplyDeleteI remember hearing something about this around the time. They never properly approached but put some feelers out after the first half of the season. I don't think they were actual trying to sign a new manager just looking at contingencies, luckily Rodgers sorted it out and finished the season well so there was no need.
ReplyDeleteJaimie not having ago mate but after reading the edit I think you just need to curb making large assumptions from little evidence. Phrases like "tried to get rid of" are not correct are they? If they tried to get rid they would have just sack him. Talking to other managers is part of a larger more elongated process than what you suggest. Looking at potential replacements for and "getting rid of" are very different things.
I think the article is news worthy and has a place and I for one am OK with it but I can understand some less calm individuals going off on one as certain termonlogy used is a little misleading or somewhat inaccurate.
Also thinking of doing a stat comparison of a couple of players and if
I've already acknowledged the lack of faith evidently shown by FSG during Rodger's first few months.
ReplyDeleteThat's the main point of the article but you are pinpointing the last calendar year, 2013. If RDB did actually mean 'last year' i.e 2013, then at least from your point of view explain why or how, where is the reasoning? Yes he said it, but why? It doesn't add up.
Yes, I take your points, but to be honest, if people want to think that, so be it. I don't moderate what I post to keep people happy. I post about things as they arise, and I'm not going to suppress something just because it might upset fans. This is (IMO) an important issue, and if fans can't handle the truth, then they're more than welcome to stop visiting this site. No one twists anyone's arm to come here. People should expect this approach here. RDB's comments are widely publicised, it's just that no one has looked a little more closely at what he actually said, and my interpretation is perfectly fair based on his comments (and I listened to the original radio interview just to make sure he actually said what's reported).
ReplyDeleteYeah from what I read it was after the poor start to the season rather than at the end. So like a bit more than a calender year.
ReplyDeletePete - whether it 'adds up' or not is a subjective interpretation, and is thus, arguably irrelevant. Just because people think that doesn't mean RDB got it wrong.
ReplyDeleteNot everything in football makes sense. If it did, premier League managers wouldn't get sacked after less than 90 days in the job.
In my view, RDB said it because he's telling the truth: FSG approached managers to replace Rodgers in Nov/Dec 2012. FDB probably turned them down in January 2013, at which point, they were stuck with Rodgers, and gave him money to spend (though not that much - £20m is comparatively small compared to the funds available at other clubs)
I
ReplyDeletehave tried to raise this issue on a couple of sites because despite being widely
reported in the press (including the BBC) i have seen no real debate on any of
the Liverpool fan sites or indeed from LFC reps. i might have guessed that JK
would have the b*lls to start a discussion about it and even if it subsequently
turns out to be wrong surely it deserves an airing or do we automatically trust
everyone connected with the club without question?
You
would think that if an error had been made about the dates either by De Boer or
the papers then someone from the club would have come out pretty quick to put
them right. I assume the club has a PR man (or three) and this is exactly the
sort of thing they should deal with. Left unchallenged it leaves people like me
wondering why they might think De Boer would be an improvement on BR after such
a short time, who is advising them in such matters, did they not think about the
possibility of it becoming public knowledge or do they just not care what people
think.
Greg - if FDB 'said no' to the job, then that means there were more than 'feelers' put out. You're trying to downplay the situation. A manager doesn't say 'no' to a job unless he's offered it.
ReplyDeleteTo suggest that FSG tried to 'get rid of BR' is not an unreasonable assumption. It's a logical assumption based on RDB's comments. It's just unpalatable for some LFC fans, which is why there's antipathy toward the whole idea.
i would say we lost the opening fixture to west brom last year, because in terms of football it was last year
ReplyDeleteThen you'd be wrong to say that because last year = 2013, not August 2012.
ReplyDeleteDon't believe it.
ReplyDeleteIt's not subjective at all. IMO you are relying on the statement by RDB alone and not considering anything else.
ReplyDeleteI read the quotes which made me think about our results in 2013. Based off purely wins and losses and an obvious increase in performance and myself being unaffected by any personal feelings or opinions of Liverpool or Rodgers (purely football results) I've come to the conclusion that there was no opportunity to replace Rodgers in 2013.
You suggest that FDB was approached in November/December 2012, that's not 'last year'. Even if FSG did get rejected in January 2013, I think that's pushing it, because it's unproven and unbacked. Plus, that's the only link to 2013, 'Last season' would be more relevant.
How agents, managers whoring themselves or whoever report this doesn't mean that it was a "will you please take over" kind of situation. Why I am more convinced it was just a feeler is that I was quite sure it was someone else. When I read that above I thought oh yeah I remember but FDB's name was a bit off. Can't remember who it was and perhaps it was FDB but I am quite convinced that it was a matter of putting feelers out with a couple of managers when Rodgers wasn't doing so well rather than it being a straight up please come in and take over now thing. I haven't got any evidence for it but it was flying around the internet around this time last year.
ReplyDeleteIf a manger is getting felt out about whether he would take over if the job became available then he can and may still say no. It doesn't have to be an actual job offer. It's the same when you know a job is coming up in work there may be someone who takes you aside and informally asks you if you would be interested. You still have to do the whole interview process but you know you have a foot in the door, the difference being that the job didn't end up needing to be filled.
It's not a logical assumption to say the "tried to get rid" if an owner or MDwant to get rid they do it. It's football we see it all the time. Are you suggesting that they only talked to one person regarding the job and as FDB didn't want it then they thought "oh well best stay with old Brendan instead"? No chance they would have looked elsewhere and found someone. Honestly it's less to do with not finding it unpalatable and more to do with hearing about it at the time in the terms that I mentioned. I may disagree with you a lot but I don't just make stuff up.
We know FSG can be a bit trigger happy. And to be fair they they had just put a couple of hundred mill into the club. That was followed by a few tens of millions that hadnt exactly paid off. Then when under BR results werent going their way the glass would have looked half empty. And they probably thought we have appointed a manager whos own collection of silverware comes to the grand total of a medal he won for 50 metres breast stroke and his cycle proficiency badge.
ReplyDeleteAnd to honest if the teams last 5 results had been losses plenty on here would have been calling him a cnut, including me.
Its dog eat dog man. Maybe now BR's earnt himself a bit of breathing space but if come xmas we are out of Europe and 9th in the league his bum will be on the line again.
It is subjective. You say that FSG wanting rid of Rodgers 'doesn't add up'. You have credible reasoning behind that view, but it's still subjective based on what you perceive to be normal practice in football. I agree with you that based on BR's results in the second half of 2013, there would've been no reason to replace him. However, FSG were clearly influence by the first half of the season, and in January/feb, there was no real indication that LFC would finish the season so strongly
ReplyDeleteRDB made a public comment about LFC's interest in FDB. Do you question everything Rodgers says in public? Or Gerrard? Do you suggest that they may be referring to the opposite of what they actually say? I doubt it, and the same goes for most fans. Why shouldn't RDB's comment be taken at face-value, even if the notion of replacing BR 'doesn't add up'?
I personally place more weight on public comments than what may or may not 'add up', which is speculative and subjective.
'Last season' may be more relevant, but that doesn't mean it's what he meant. He could've meant that, I agree, but I don't believe he did.
In any event, the end result is the same, whatever the interpretation of RDB's comment: LFC actively sought to remove Rodgers in the first few months of his reign, and that's the overall point of the article.
Pretty disappointing if this is true which seems to be. To be honest singing BR was a big gamble for us and the owners. BR clearly was "one" of many in their shortlist which I don't have a problem with, but I certainly don't believe he was 1st choice.
ReplyDeletePre Jan 2013 Liverpool were dire so I can see why FSG paniced. However it still disappoints to be honest.
And I am so glad he is still here. The decent thing FSG can do is give him a contract extension and back him in the transfer market for next season.
Let's hope RDB comments are just a spanner in the works.
I have tried editing the aove but it does not work- sorry
ReplyDeleteYou said "LFC actively sought to remove Rodgers in the first few months of his reign" - that means 2012. A five month window of opportunity. I do not discredit RDB and I don't dislike the information that's imparted, I believe what he says. But IMO it's late 2012 and not last year, it's a simple as that. It's confusing how you think RDB meant 'last year' but your main point is that Rodgers was on the out during his first few months, which was 2012. If that's your overall point, it's potentially a tacit admission that perhaps it was not specifically 2013 but you're covered in all areas of your argument.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I am not trying to get technical. To me, through the article and the comments, the whole 2013 notion is excessively highlighted when it doesn't really need to be. Just the way I read it.
I also don't pay much attention to what Rodgers or Gerrard say. Whatever they spit out is just lumped on the official LFC website to appease fans so they hear what they want to hear. Plus, their tongues are firmly up each others back side and it's hard to take a guy seriously if he has a massive self portrait of himself in his house... :)
I think maybe he meant last year as in last season, before rodgers came in? this is only Rodgers second season after all! I would imagine something is lost in translation from the FDB/RDB and I wouldn't read too much into it, however, if FSG did go behind Rodgers back then that is just wrong! Rodgers is doing a fantastic job for us.
ReplyDeleteYour comment literally made me 'laught out loud' =)
ReplyDeleteLiverpool approached De Boer in 2012 and he turned them down. If he's also been approached in 2013 then that means it happened twice. Weather you said as much or not is kind of beside the point, it's just a turn of phrase. The point is that for this to be true then Liverpool must have approached De Boer twice and I would have thought that this would be a noteworthy thing for his brother to point out. As you say below - he's quite specific about Spurs. It seems far more likely to me that he's referring to the original approach and simply misspoke.
ReplyDeleteYou can call it denial if you like, what you think of my thought process is also irrelevant. It just makes no sense to me that Liverpool would look to replace Rodgers having just given him money to spend in January. Just as our form starts to turn and he looks like he knows what he's doing, they sack him?
I think JK that the problem alot of us hav here is that you insist that De Boer can only be truthful and must be unquestionably taken on his word, yet whenever Rodgers or FSG make a statement on something your frequent response is something along the lines of "if you believe that you'll believe anything", or something to that effect. Why is De Boer's word gold and Rodgers word so frequently dirt?
ReplyDeleteTony, please find an article where I've stated 'if you believe that you'll believe anything' about something Rodgers said, or even FSG. I've said that many times about Suarez, but not about BR or FSG.
ReplyDeleteLFC probably approached De Boer in Nov/Dec 2012 after the club's poor start under Rodgers, and got turned down in January, at which point FSG gave BR some money to spend.
ReplyDeletethe article you wrote earlier this week about Saurez saying he is committed to lfc is where you said “if you believe that you'll believe anything"
ReplyDeleteSeriously, you don't read comments properly, do you?
ReplyDeleteWhich means they approached him twice in 2012 and he turned them down twice. That might be what happened but it's then quite different from "last year" isn't it? That doesn't add up and it really does seem more likely that Liverpool approached him once in the summer of 2012 and that is what he's talking about. We know that happened for sure, confirmed by De Boer himself.
ReplyDeleteIt's not 'quite different' if FDB actually turned down the approach/offer in 2013, which would make RDB's comment 100% correct.
ReplyDeleteIt all comes back to the same thing: fans don't want to contemplate that FSG would do this, so they come up with endless excuses as to why the info must be incorrect. The same things happens with stats people don't like.
Even if RDB had said 'Frank said no to Liverpool in January', there would be people on this thread disputing it, arguing that he meant January 2012 (!)
There were at least 2 occasions where you've used that exact phrase about Rodgers. One when Rodgers said Agger was out of the squad due to illness, and I believe the other was a time Skrtel (possibly) left out and Rodgers said he was injured. You had no evidence that Rodgers was lying and in both cases he was telling the truth
ReplyDeleteTwice now you've responded to a comment I've made and said something about how "people" or "fans" are thinking a particular way. Am I included in that categorisation or is it just a coincidence that you say these things in response to me simply putting forward my own point of view? I'd rather stick to the issue rather than have to wonder if you are questioning my mental processing.
ReplyDeleteI was just pointing out you do say it. It is quite often too. I I just knew that one instantly without having to look.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm making a general reference to a specific group of fans. If I meant you, I'd say you.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Liverpool in 12th or so halfway through the season last year? I think most of the fans were calling for Rodgers head at that point, so looking for a possible replacement isn't backstabbing, it's business, protecting you're interests. Fortunately for Rodgers he turned things around - but I don't think for one second he would have the luxury of feeling safe in his job, especially given his underwhelming start.
ReplyDeleteI dont think this helps the cause ( title challenge, top 4) just saying...
ReplyDeleteRight ... so for some reason you feel the need to tell me about your theories of the mindset of random groups of "people" who may or may not actually exist, but it's nothing actually to do with me. Seems like an odd way to have a conversation.
ReplyDeleteWhy woulod FSG want to pay out yet another managers contract before it had ended?
ReplyDeleteHodgson and Dalglish cost FSG many, many millions so getting rid of Rodgers so soon would end up as yet another many, many millions loss to LFC and FSG.
Lost in translation = Ronald de Boer = sounds more like it.
Maybe FSG were going to, but they didn't. Gerrard was going to join Chelsea, but he didn't. Suarez was going to join Arsenal, but he didn't. So how about letting sleeping dogs lie and leave to dredging up of past speculation to rival fans who may actually be interested.
ReplyDeleteAh yes, the old lost in translation excuse. De Boer and his brother speak the same language, do they now? Plus, De Boer - who speaks perfect English - gave his radio interview *in English*, so how could there possibly be a translation issue.
ReplyDeleteYou and others can continue to live in denial. FSG tried to replace Rodgers within a few months of him getting the job. That is an irrefutable fact.
Oh wait, I forgot: RDB is actually part of some nefarious scheme to destabilise LFC. He's working for Alex Ferguson, who continues to run the giant conspiracy against LFC and blah blah blah.
It's not odd in the slightest. It's a wider point related to what you said. I'm not going to post a separate comment without any context. I don't see why this is such a big issue. Who cares?
ReplyDeleteThere are no irrefutable facts when one person is speaking on behalf of another.
ReplyDeleteLost in translation was being sarcastic bu the way...
This site really is the red top of all football sites, it interperates any "news" the way it deems most controversial
ReplyDeleteHave you ever written an article that is based on fact or do you just search the web looking for some fragment of a comment that you can blow out of all proportion? I don't know of many other 'journalists' who have to delete comments, we have to read your drivel so why can we not the other peoples retorts? You will probably say that I do not have to read your articles which is true but I often do not know who has written it until I'm about halfway through and start to realise that what is being said is utter nonsense. I pray you do not support my beloved LFC because that would be a travesty. It would definitely make sense if you didnt as everything you write is detrimental to Liverpool and is not needed or wanted. From now on could you start your articles with your name rather than ending them with it as it would save me time and stop everyone getting annoyed by the rubbish you spill out. And please for future reference the use of proper English and the fact you have a computer does not make you a journalist
ReplyDeleteI think a few million lawyers across the globe would disagree with you, for that is exactly what they do: State facts on behalf of others.
ReplyDeleteSince when was this a court case :-p
ReplyDeleteAnd since when will every defence lawyer in the world allow their client to tell the truth and nothing but the truth?
Their facts become lies :-)
To be fair br did have the worst start in over 100 yrs and was looking worse than chin rub. I think fsg probably shat thier pants and had to chat with someone!! All good now though!! Fsg show no mercy, they would of sacked moyes by now!!
ReplyDeleteYou might well be right but where would the sense be of paying off another manager and then needing to fund more transfers as the new incumbent reshapes the team his way. When they appointed BR i am sure they said all the right things about giving him time to turn things around. It seems like madness to almost immediately look for a replacement at the first sign of a rocky patch.
ReplyDeleteReally Jaimie, how do you want us to take you seriously after things like this? Tonywan comes and gives specific quotes of you using that exact phrase regarding Rodgers, yet instead of admitting you were wrong about your previous assumption and that you did actually use it for Rodgers- as it is clear for everyone to see-, you come and try and twist things around, claiming it was a response to LFC Website. So LFC website is a person now? Where does LFC website get his info from. In the article, you even confirm yourself that the info comes from Rodgers: "this is probably Rodgers helping Agger save face for being dropped again"
ReplyDeleteYou speak about others who try and twist facts just so they suit their opinion yet I feel you're guilty of the same as often
I feel we get in to semantics too much but if he wasn't offered the job just asked if he would be interested then he can still say no. You get that surely? Asking if he was interested is feelers rather than offering the job. I wrote a huge reply to this earlier but it seems to have disappeared.
ReplyDelete100% factual? It is one person who could possibly be using colloquialism.
ReplyDeleteMy bad it's RDB, not Ancelloti. You probably discounted 33% of the part where you claim he is honorable without evidence by saying I have no evidence to say he is dishonorable. So you know him personally to say that (in all account)?
ReplyDeleteThe mistake and boasting part - haven't discounted that yet. So there's still 66% chance it's not true.
And then you went on to say that I'm another fan who can't hack the truth and discredit info they don't like, even when the source is credible and factual (which all they do, like you, relay the information) - and the source, RDB, may or may not be credible. So now you claim to know me personally to say I'm just another fan who..."blah blah blah".
So you relayed the information but also include your opinion and you believed it but probably not us. Why are you having a hard time accepting the fact that it's not 100% factual even when RDB said so?
Look at it this way, RDB said so, FSG didn't say anything yet. We expect FSG to said no. So it's 50-50. You say RDB is honorable in all account, then it's 100% and it's factual. So FSG has no say? If this was a court, I'm going to jail.
Probably all true...but so what? FSG are the owners and the owners are trying to make the team successful. In the midst of a victories drought that will see LFC perhaps drop into the lower half of the table, FSG accounts for the previous poor spending on middling talent, sees a new, relatively untried manager trying to right the ship and fears that with BR's lack of experience, he may not be the right ship captain. They go sniffing about Europe for an available super-coach to swoop in, stop the leaking, and right the ship. Is this not what has happened to AVB at Spurs? Is this not what happened to both DeMatteo and then Rafa at Chelski?
ReplyDeleteI don't get the angst at this point. Owners don't get attached to anything but the team's performance as a way to increase value.
So then LFC has a strong second half of the 12-13 season and faint hearts are suddenly strengthened, some metrics get applied to player purchases over the Summer, and BR comes into his own as a trainer and tactician...and here we are...sitting a 2nd in the table less than a year removed from the darkest days of the 2012-3 season.
Rehashing the desperation of individuals trying to right the ship might be a worthwhile endeavor if the ship had actually sunk...but the ship is afloat, in full sail, and headed for a sunny horizon. Why dwell on a past like this one? I'll bet BR fully understands what went on, doesn't question it and has paid less attention to this subject than anyone already on this site.
To say that it's proof they tried to get rid of him is sensationalist nonsense and to be quite honest, I've grown to expect more from this website. De Boer has given no dates, he may have said last year when he really meant 2 years ago after Kenny left.
ReplyDeleteIf FSG wanted rid of him they would've got rid of him, as they did with Kenny. You have written an article claiming proof and then producing absolutely none. This is the level of journalism I would expect from a wank mag. Speculation and conjecture at best. Unimpressed