Everton are reportedly considering a summer move for Liverpool midfielder Joe Allen, who, despite his relatively large transfer fee, continues to play a bit-part role at Anfield.
According to The Mirror this week:
"Roberto Martinez wants to tempt Joe Allen across Stanley Park from Liverpool to Everton.
"Liverpool may be willing to sell Allen, and Martinez has discussed him as a summer transfer target for the Toffees.
"Everton would need to pay upwards of £10m"
If Liverpool get into the Champions League next season, there will be a lot more games to play, but Allen will probably be reduced to FA Cup/Carling Cup starts, and sub appearances in the league/Champions League, as well as injury cover. It all depends on his level of ambition because, as things stand, there's no easy route into the first team.
* Gerrard is a fixture in the team. If he's fit, he'll play, and that will continue next season.
* Ditto Henderson, who seems to be one of Brendan Rodgers' favourites.
* Lucas is clearly ahead of Allen in the pecking order.
* Rodgers will almost certainly sign another midfielder this summer, which will make it even harder for Allen to get a regular game-time.
As such, it's just a matter of time (IMO) before Allen leaves Anfield, but I doubt he'll end up at Everton, for obvious reasons.
Allen - hailed by Rodgers over the weekend as 'outstanding' - is a good player, with a great attitude, but if he can't hold down a regular place after almost two seasons at the club, then the writing is on the wall. Indeed, the midfielder is acutely aware of how hard it is to get a run in the team. Yesterday, he told the Liverpool Echo:
“Yes it does get harder and harder to get into the team. His [Gerrard's] form has been incredible this season and he’s still a really key player. So that spot in the team is certainly a tough one to get for yourself"
Bottom line: if Rodgers trusted Allen, and saw him as an integral part of the team, he'd start him every week. Allen is injury free right now, yet still doesn't get regular starts. Additionally, Rodgers has even altered Steven Gerrard's position in the team rather than give the deeper role to Allen.
It should've been Allen taking the deeper role, with Henderson fighting it out with Gerrard for the attacking midfielder position, but Rodgers would rather completely change the skipper's role than put his faith in Allen. This speaks volumes, and as I see it, the only way Allen will get a run in the team is if:
* Gerrard gets a long-term injury. Even then, it's not a foregone conclusion. Lucas would probably be brought in ahead of Allen.
* Henderson gets a long-term injury and/or suffers a catastrophic loss of form. Again, Lucas, or a new midfielder, will probably get the nod ahead of Allen.
Allen is great player to have in the squad, but like Jonjo Shelvey (who left last summer), he probably wants regular first-term football, and at the age of 24, sitting on the bench is not going to aid Allen's development, even if it is at Anfield.
If he leaves, though, it won't be as a 'flop'. Brendan Rodgers is to blame for Allen's inability to establish himself at Liverpool, not the player himself. The Reds didn't need Allen, and that was obvious, but Rodgers bought him anyway.
Will Liverpool recoup the £15m outlay on Allen? No chance. If Rodgers decides to sell, I doubt the Reds will get more than £8m - £10m for him, leaving the Reds with another financial loss in the transfer market.
Ultimately, the question to consider is this: if Liverpool sell Allen, will it make any difference to the club's forward momentum? In other words, will the club miss him?
Unluckily for him, the answer is no.
Author: Jaimie K
According to The Mirror this week:
"Roberto Martinez wants to tempt Joe Allen across Stanley Park from Liverpool to Everton.
"Liverpool may be willing to sell Allen, and Martinez has discussed him as a summer transfer target for the Toffees.
"Everton would need to pay upwards of £10m"
If Liverpool get into the Champions League next season, there will be a lot more games to play, but Allen will probably be reduced to FA Cup/Carling Cup starts, and sub appearances in the league/Champions League, as well as injury cover. It all depends on his level of ambition because, as things stand, there's no easy route into the first team.
* Gerrard is a fixture in the team. If he's fit, he'll play, and that will continue next season.
* Ditto Henderson, who seems to be one of Brendan Rodgers' favourites.
* Lucas is clearly ahead of Allen in the pecking order.
* Rodgers will almost certainly sign another midfielder this summer, which will make it even harder for Allen to get a regular game-time.
As such, it's just a matter of time (IMO) before Allen leaves Anfield, but I doubt he'll end up at Everton, for obvious reasons.
Allen - hailed by Rodgers over the weekend as 'outstanding' - is a good player, with a great attitude, but if he can't hold down a regular place after almost two seasons at the club, then the writing is on the wall. Indeed, the midfielder is acutely aware of how hard it is to get a run in the team. Yesterday, he told the Liverpool Echo:
“Yes it does get harder and harder to get into the team. His [Gerrard's] form has been incredible this season and he’s still a really key player. So that spot in the team is certainly a tough one to get for yourself"
Bottom line: if Rodgers trusted Allen, and saw him as an integral part of the team, he'd start him every week. Allen is injury free right now, yet still doesn't get regular starts. Additionally, Rodgers has even altered Steven Gerrard's position in the team rather than give the deeper role to Allen.
It should've been Allen taking the deeper role, with Henderson fighting it out with Gerrard for the attacking midfielder position, but Rodgers would rather completely change the skipper's role than put his faith in Allen. This speaks volumes, and as I see it, the only way Allen will get a run in the team is if:
* Gerrard gets a long-term injury. Even then, it's not a foregone conclusion. Lucas would probably be brought in ahead of Allen.
* Henderson gets a long-term injury and/or suffers a catastrophic loss of form. Again, Lucas, or a new midfielder, will probably get the nod ahead of Allen.
Allen is great player to have in the squad, but like Jonjo Shelvey (who left last summer), he probably wants regular first-term football, and at the age of 24, sitting on the bench is not going to aid Allen's development, even if it is at Anfield.
If he leaves, though, it won't be as a 'flop'. Brendan Rodgers is to blame for Allen's inability to establish himself at Liverpool, not the player himself. The Reds didn't need Allen, and that was obvious, but Rodgers bought him anyway.
Will Liverpool recoup the £15m outlay on Allen? No chance. If Rodgers decides to sell, I doubt the Reds will get more than £8m - £10m for him, leaving the Reds with another financial loss in the transfer market.
Ultimately, the question to consider is this: if Liverpool sell Allen, will it make any difference to the club's forward momentum? In other words, will the club miss him?
Unluckily for him, the answer is no.
Author: Jaimie K
Next Year if we qualify for Champions we will need a bigger squad, we have a small squad now, couple of signings and keep our stars, and we will be able to push for the title, I dont see any reason why selling Allen, unless he pushes for a move.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Allen want to go to Everton, and why would Rodgers want to sell him, apart from Lucas, he's the closest thing we have to a defensive midfielder. Sure Gerrard is being shaped to fit into that role, and Allen hasn't had the best of luck with form and fitness. People tend to forget what he can provide to the team, and he's often an easy scapegoat if things go wrong.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, you are avoiding the issue. Please explain how Allen is going to reg regular first team football next season (in the Prem/CL). I don't agree that he's used as a scapegoat; he just doesn't play regularly, and that isn't going to change.
ReplyDeleteI personally do not agree it's BR's fault. He hasn't performed to the level we expected from him in the games he has played. Henderson was in a similar boat not so long ago but he kept going and look at him now. Allen is non existent on the pitch and provides nothing to the team. He is weak on the ball and his creative play is also non existent. Bringing him in for £15m was a mistake but he's had enough time to try and exert his ability. Even as a squad player I strongly believe he adds little or no value.
ReplyDeleteAllen is obviously not a defensive midfielder. His best ability (IMO) is to link up with other player and connect the team as a whole. From his performance last week, i could see him as a sub for either Henderson or Coutinho.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he couldn't get himself into first XI in the end. However, he has definitely a place in team.
I don't have to explain anything. Sure I don't know where he is on the pecking order for midfielders, but as I see it, he competes with Lucas and Gerrard in that disruptive, holding role. Granted he won't start every game, but he's handy with winning possession and making the easy passes. Qualifying for the champions league and being in the cup competitions next year ought to mean that if fit, he could well serve as a reliable squad player when the need arises. If anything, I would hope the emphasis is on adding quality rather than diminishing the squad further. I'm surprised you say he hasn't been made a scapegoat, I'm sure you've seen any number of fans laying into him for poor performances . Yes he ought to have nowhere to hide after a poor game, but it seems he's the new Lucas, in the way fans used to get onto the Brazilian's back for offering "nothing"" to the team, and now, well, most love him. Granted Allen has much to do and learn, and I doubt Rodgers would see his future away from Anfield.
ReplyDeleteI agree with kuku, we need him if we qualify for Champions League, and there s no reason to sell him, he will become an important player for us...
ReplyDeleteYou're clearly running out of things to write about JK!! Obviously you missed Allen's performances when SG was injured at xmas. He doesn't suit the style of play from the base of midfield anymore, he is not athletic enough and lacks the dynamic passing currently deployed by SG in the DM position. His best games have come from playing further forward. He is great at anticipating and intercepting the play and sparking play further up the field, where he can be far more effective. He was outstanding against Spurs etc.. Obviously BR knows a lot more about football then yourself and won't be contemplating selling a vital piece of the LFC puzzle. We wouldn't be in 4th spot right now without players like Allen coming in and performing in the absence of regular first teamers.
ReplyDeleteIt's also funny how you no longer slate SG playing the deeper role in the team, I seem to remember you questionning BR tactical selection and believing SG was not worthy of his place in the starting line up when he was due to return after xmas,ur argument, supported by the performances of JH and JA in his absence. Funny how that little argument of yours has fallen through recently.. maybe because BR knows more then you about football and showed the world that SG is tactically versatile and prolonging his career is in the best interest of all parties... even if it keeps JA on the bench until we finally return to the Champions lge.. TOP4LFC
The Liverpool didn't need Allen thing is more than moot. Truth is Rodgers came in with a certain way of playing football and Allen was well aware of it and did well in that system. Then he got in injured as the team was changing and his form dropped. If we continued to play that way then Allen could have a had a bigger part to play but we changed as a team. Less concerned with keeping the ball. So rather than Allen never being needed he has become less needed as the focus of the team has changed. When bought Henderson did not look anything like the player he now is, Lucas was injured as was Gerard too(???). Shelvey was even madder than he currently is and was younger too, never a player who could play the pivut and Adam, well if we are kind we can say he could and should never play there either. So needed? Quite possibly at the time yes. Now. Much less so.
ReplyDeleteWill we miss him? Depends. Who comes in who stays fit. Allen's qualities can be overlooked. But he certainly has some that would be missed if we do not have that in the squad anymore.
He could do a Henderson and become undroppable? Fight for your place in the squad. If you leave Liverpool, you are going down. At least to a PL club. I don't see a Foerign club coming in for him. Not now anyway.
ReplyDeleteWe will (almost certainly) be involved in four cup competitions next season. We will need to change players more than we have this season and we have done quite a bit due to injuries. If we imagine we get the same amount of injuries as this season and get better draws/do better in the early stages of domestic cups and hopefully CL then we will need to play the whole squad at some point. Regular games? Maybe not but semi regular yes. Like you say cups and the like. For us that it us good having him for that and for him he could see that as a way to force his way in to the team. Lets me honest Allen has not played the same minutes for Liverpool that Henderson has. Could he force his way to being a first team regular with enough games? Who knows? Who would have said Henderson will?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't mind exchanging him with Ross Barkley. Under Gerard guidance, he will become a great player and hopefully replacing him.
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time a player from Liverpool moved to Everton???
ReplyDeleteRodgers primary philosophy is possession, but because of the players here, particularly irrepressible Gerrard, he had to modify the style. but he will steadily move back to his basic philosophy in coming years, when a player like Allen will be key to the team. probably next to next season if not next
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree. I thought Allen's cameo v Swans the other night was absolutely brilliant. He calmed everything down, eliminated the space in front of Gerrard that Shelvey and Co. had been exploiting all night, and put in more tackles (5) in his brief spell on the pitch then any other Liverpool player. Although he may not consistently be in the starting 11, I think he will play a pivotal roll in the remaining 11 games this season, as we cannot always throw caution into the wind and play that all out attacking brand of football, our shaky defense will be punished by sides that possess more quality then Swansea. As for summer, unless we see an elite CM coming into the squad (Witsel, Isco, etc--honestly, depends on if we get CL place), I think it is imperative that we keep a hold of little Joe...and if we do reinforce with quality signings, a direct rival, let alone the Toffees, will have to pay a higher asking price then 8 million...
ReplyDeleteI don't know how much u understand football but Allen (or Lucas) won't be sold! Allen and Henderson will formed a very important partnership in the future. But i do know that Reina, Agger, Johnson will def be sold! And if get into the CL, expect two forward/winger, two DM, one young goalie and one RB.
ReplyDeleteYet another person ignoring the elephant in the room. Please explain how Allen and henderson 'will form a very important partnership in the future'. At whose expense? Gerrard will be around for a couple more years yet, and then LFC will buy someone to replace him, so where does Allen fit in?
ReplyDeleteAllen's ability is not the issue! It's about how and where he fits into the team. How is he going to become a first team regular with Henderson, Gerrard, Coutinho, Lucas ahead of him, plus more midfielders being signed in the future?
ReplyDeleteDrop the snide tone of your future posts, or don't bother posting at all.
ReplyDeleteI never 'slated' Gerrard playing a deeper role, and I never stated Gerrard is not worthy of his place in the team, so stop making things up. It seems to me you're deliberately misrepresenting my views. If you can't paraphrase accurately, don't do it at all.
I questioned Gerrard's deeper move. There's a difference. He's done well in that role, so why should I question it further?
Additionally, like others, you've totally missed the point about Allen. I'm not questioning his ability; I'm questioning HOW he will get regular first team football with the players already at the club. Perhaps in future you should try and comprehend the actual argument properly, eh?
Gerrard is playing the deeper role. Allen plays further forward.
ReplyDeleteThe perfect example of how devastatingly good the Hendo/Allen partnership can be was in the 5-0 thumping of Spurs.
Your refusal to accept reality continues to be mind-boggling. How often does Allen start in a role 'further forward'. Hardly ever, so why do you ignore that? You make it sound like Allen is a fixture in the team ahead of Gerrard, which isn't true, and isn't likely to be true in the future. The likes of Sterling, Henderson and Coutinho will all start ahead of Allen in a forward role, as will any new big-money attackers signed in the upcoming transfer window (i.e. someone like Konoplyanka)
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, Spurs played with 10 men for tha majority of the second half in that game, and Allen had very little do to with the result. Suarez's 4 goals/assists were the difference.
Hi Jamie. It's evident enough to assume that if Liverpool add more ranks to the midfield come summer, Allen will be more of squad player or be sold. I think we need some tough enforcer in the Defensive Midfield area and must be a better player than Lucas.
ReplyDeleteHopefully by securing champions league berth this term, we would be able to attract better quality players in different departments on our squad. We need to especially address and solve the defence area. I believe selling Agger and Johnson would be ideal and buy a younger and experienced established player.
It's exciting to see on paper Liverpool linked with this and that player (Isco, Valdes, Konoplyanka etc) across Europe continent.
So, Jamie, any names you would like to specify on whom we should/could buy this summer? And why?
Would love to hear from you, pls!
It makes absolutely no sense to sell Allen. Allen is a quality CM and you need to have 5 or 6 of them in your squad. It's a long season and every player will have their part to play. Even if we don't qualify for the CL you still need to have strength in depth.
ReplyDeleteHere's a question for you Jaimie. If we sell Allen, who do you replace him with? And if the new player pushes someone like Henderson out the team what do we do with Henderson? Sell him as well!
That is your opinion? I have mine.
ReplyDeleteIf Allen had not been injured as much as he has been then he would have played many more matches. When you get injured you can't play. Then there is recovery time and regaining match fitness etc, etc, etc.
Furthermore, Allen will be at the club next season. This rumour about a Liverpool player going to Everton is quite laughable.
You replace Allen with a player who is more suited to LFC's style of play. A midfielder with a specific role in the team, i.e. a dedicated defensive midfielder, or an attacking, creative midfield playmaker. Allen is not irreplaceable, yet you seem to suggest it will be difficult to replace him,
ReplyDeleteIf a new player pushes Henderson then so be it. That's exactly what LFC need. Competition is good, if the players competing perform similar roles in the team. Allen and Hendo are different players, and Allen offers very little apart from good passing, and shoring up midfield.
Henderson has no real challenger at the moment; ditto Lucas. Allen is not a challenger because he's not a dedicated DM, and he's not an attacking midfielder either, so when he comes into the team, it loses something as Allen can't reach the heights of Lucas or Henderson.
LFC need upgrades to challenge Lucas and Henderson; players who perform a specific role in the team.
If Henderson ends up on the bench, then so be it, as it will mean that the player replacing him will be scoring/creating goals regularly for LFC.
Why don't you stop avoiding the issue for once and trying to change the subject with irrelevant asides about past injuries.
ReplyDeleteHow will Allen be a regular at LFC next season with Gerrard, Henderson, Coutinho, Lucas, and - probably - one or two more midfielders at the club. That is the point here, so stop changing the subject.
Injuries in the past are utterly irrelevant to this question. If you're unwilling to address the issue, then please stop replying to my comments. I'm only interested in discussing the issue with people who actually focus on the points raised, not with someone who is totally inflexible, and unwilling to consider the reality of the situation.
The game against Swansea onbiously passed you by, then.
ReplyDeleteAllen came on and immediately added a bit of dynamism and heart into what was a lacklustre performance. I also should point out that he was a major part of some of the outstanding attacking displays we put in over the Christmas period. His time will come, as it did for Henderson.
Okay. Allen's time will come, you claim. Please explain how this will come about. At whose expense? Playing what role in the team?
ReplyDeleteHenderson's time came because there's an obvious place for him in the team. He performs a specific role that's essential to the team's success. Allen does not. He's not an attacking mid; he's not a defensive mid; he's not as good defensively as Lucas, and he's not as good in attack as Henderson/Coutinho etc.
Allen is also not a good enough playmaker to get away with just being in the team without contributing anything up front. He's not a Pirlo/Xavi, who have huge influence on their respective teams.
So many people on this thread (and others) make statements about how Allen will 'come good', but no one explains how.
So: how will Allen's time come, and in what circumstances?
Isn't the last paragraph snide in a sense? One rule for one and so on...
ReplyDeleteThe thing is what standard of player do you want on the bench competing for a place? You don't make sense, surely you must understand the need for a strong squad? Injuries happen and you need quality to step in. Take our defence as an example, I've seen you write that we had too many options but injuries have proved this not to be the case.
ReplyDeleteWhy would he want to go to Everton, what's that supposed to mean? Roberto Martinez gave him his debut as a 16 year old at Swansea.
ReplyDeleteGood quality players are needed, but the make-up of the squad needs to be just right, which is part of the managerial challenge.
ReplyDeleteI don't have a problem with Allen being a bench player for LFC, but the likelihood is that he won't want to do that for the long-term. It's all well and good saying LFC needs a strong bench, but international players in their mid-20s will generally not be happy with a bit-part role.
As for the defence - Rodgers got 'lucky' with injuries, but there are still too many options. If the injuries didn't occur, then it would've been tough to keep all four senior defenders happy.
I meant no disrespect, I just meant that Rodgers seems to like him as a player, and as such I was wondering how accurate this news of him being wanted by Everton is, and how likely Rodgers is to let him go.
ReplyDeletewith all due respect how can you tell him to drop the snide tone? when i've seen you be rude to quite a lot of your readers on here, if anyone needs to change their tone i think its you Jaimie.
ReplyDeleteAs an Everton fan I hope we are not interested in him however if it happened it wouldn't be the end of the world. As far as this discussion is going I can see what JK is saying. if Liverpool play with a 3 man midfield there are simply too many players ahead of him to guarantee him the playing time a 24 year old would want, especially when you consider that during the summers rogers will strengthen on the back of CL money.
ReplyDeleteI think u still dont see the point, what jamie says is that allen will want to start every league game but it will not be possible in liverpool. He would probably start in most of the teams outside top 8 and everton might need him if barry leaves. If he wants to start regularly and become better it will be a challenge for him, i think thats what jamie is saying.
ReplyDeleteCan't see Everton wanting Allen, as he'd struggle to get into their midfield. Liverpool have a cracking forward line but their midfield ain't all that.
ReplyDeleteAllen is crap,even at £10m he's still well overpriced.
ReplyDeleteThat may well be the case, but bearing in mind Allen was one of the first players Rodgers brought in to facilitate the transition of his system of playing. With, hopefully a larger squad, Allen could conceivably be utilised in rotation as a more steadying, ball winning simple pass playing midfielder, if we do get an actual defensive midfielder. If fit he is an option, perhaps to shore up a victory. We haven't yet seen much of him in an attacking capacity Ia believe, that might be an aspect of his game he may well be allowed to develop, depending on personnel available.
ReplyDeleteBehave,as if Everton would let that happen.
ReplyDeleteI do see Jamie's point, but my contention is, we have no idea how Allen will be deployed and the nature of the as yet unestablished pecking order. Some players are satisfied with squad roles in a successful team. Whether Liverpool will continue to be successful in the long tun, and how that affects Allen's playing opportunities is largely informed speculation at this point.
ReplyDeleteHow is competition good?? You continuously point out it's unhealthy (for some reason). But as you need to make a point, it maybe good to turn the other cheek this time.
ReplyDeleteI think you are looking at this from the clubs perspective when in todays game its all about player power. if Allen doesn't want to be a bit part player at such a crucial point in his career then he's going to move on if he can get a move. I'm hoping this story has come from press adding 2+2 together and getting 5 with Martinez being his old manager and question marks over Gareth Barrys future but if he wants out and he isn't as crucial to Liverpools future as say a Suarez is then Liverpool wont break the bank to keep him.
ReplyDeleteif we sell him im sure in a couple of years time it would come back to bite us. he is young enough to cover until gerrard retires and then make a mark for himself - just as hendo has done.
ReplyDeleteI agree...it might be a small step backward to sell a player who is comfortable playing for BR in some role...but it's still a step backward. I'd rather keep him and ALSO find a good DM or two.
ReplyDeleteWhere am I changing the subject. I am discussing Allen?
ReplyDeleteOnly one person will put this argument to bed and that is Joe Allen. Pretty sure he will have the last laugh.
More games (presumably) and tactical shifts will see Allen get and start more games. Not to mention injuries which have plagued us this season. We will undoubtedly sign at least one Central midfield player as well as a Kono type too. But that will see Lucas get less games rather than Allen I think. Rodgers has said he prefers Allen further forward and recent showings have shown that to be where he wants to play him. He gives a business and closing down in that position and that is a way we will have to play some teams.
ReplyDeleteKinder cup fixtures will see hims start games too. He won't be leaving I think, but I agree he won't be starting lots of league games.
You talk like we have one style of play.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Rodgers would consider himself lucky to have injuries or anyone else but yourself for that matter. The fact is that all top sides have strength in depth with internationals on the bench. Do you just want a starting 11 of international players with the rest of the squad made up of those not good enough to be capped? Obviously players want more than a bit part role but that's the managers job to try and keep the squad happy and Allen has even spoke out that it is a good thing for it to be difficult to get in the team. His words are certainly not those of someone who isn't happy.
ReplyDeleteHe was excellent when he came on on Sunday and he has had to make important contributions on other occasions due to injury. The Spurs game in which he featured was the best away performance from our midfield in a long time.
Lucas probably may not be in a LFC shirt for 2014/15 season. Gerrard is one year closer to retirement. Both Gerrard and Lucas haven't been the most fit players these past 2 years. Allen has also been on the mend a couple of times as well, but at 23 yrs of age, he is much better to have around than to sell to a rival club. Allen is here to stay.
ReplyDeleteWatch his performance against Spurs again (prior to the sending off). It was widely considered after that game that the midfield worked better as a unit without Gerrard that day. The ability to press constantly was an improvement on other away games.
ReplyDeleteYes exactly. Sometimes we will want to press high up sometimes sit back and counter. Looking at what Olympiacos did to United you wonder if the high press would be the way to win that game.
ReplyDeleteOf course that is unless a player is injured long term, I suppose that is why teams have a "squad" and not just 11 players
ReplyDeleteIs your assertion that we should have older players on the bench?
ReplyDeleteYes sell him, wont get what we paid because he was never worth £15 million in the first place. We need some steel in center midfield, not feather weights.
ReplyDeleteHe has little strength,passes back or sideways,can't find a team mate with anything further than a 5 yard pass,constantly gets caught in possession or bundled off the ball by a stronger opponent,has no height for heading and can't shoot accurately.That is my opinion and anyone who relies on stats to counteract this needs to sit through a few live games,home and especially away.
ReplyDeleteCan you see Gerrard as defensive midfielder? I don't myself, he drops too deep and cant handle players running at him, personally i'd like us to buy a strong ball winning DM, not trying to find a spot for an ageing player. Lucas has had to play there, but he no natural DM and neither is Allen. No disrespect to Stevie G, just think he should come on as sub further up the pitch, 'cos that's what he's good at.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, he could'nt hit a barn door with a Banjo. Much stronger and dangerous midfielders worth £15 million out there than him.
ReplyDeleteI second
ReplyDeleteIf we indeed make the champions league then there will be a lot more games to play. Look at the size of squads arsenal, man city and Chelsea have, particularly in the midfield area. It's impossible for our current 4 midfielders to play every game. We should have back up for every position to compensate for injuries and fatigue. There's no way Allen will be leaving when even with one midfield addition we would still probably be short. So yeah he will get his chance IF we make the champions league...
ReplyDeleteI don't really see it as having a bit part role. Of course some players will play more than others but with European games everyone would have a part to play. We would need quite a few quality additions to cope and obviously players will be let go who aren't up to scratch. I don't think Allen falls into that category. Integrating too many players at once is disastrous as Spurs have demonstrated this season.
ReplyDeleteSure he doesn't tear up trees but he is very effective at breaking up play and keeping possession and passing to more attacking players.
Rodgers seems to favour one DM, one CM and one AM to make up the 3... And Allen suits the CM role perfectly. He will more than likely rotate with Hendo
I can bet anything you want that Allen will start this weekend. He had to good an impact against Swansea to be sat on the bench again.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure in the past people were questioning how on earth Lucas or Henderson would 'come good' for us, yet it happened. The same thing will happen with Joe Allen.
We have a very small squad, next year there could well be a lot more scope for rotation. We need him
ReplyDeleteThe only reason we'd sell Allen is if Rodgers gets all his targets in the summer. If our squad remains relatively stable then having Allen there is a very good thing for us. He's versatile and can play his game in a variety of positions. He's cover at DM, CM and even in the 10 role. His problem is that he's been unable to establish himself in any of those roles enough to dominate his competition. Gerrard has been very good this season, Lucas remains our best DM and Henderson is undroppable. The thing is that it's a nice problem to have. It's not a negative for the team in any way. The more talent we have on the bench the better. It's hard for Allen and maybe he'll want to move on to get more game time but from a team point of view it's brilliant to have him here.
ReplyDeleteNeither Allen nor Lucas are good enough to start in a team with title aspirations, or looking ahead, challenging for the Champions League in the next couple of years. They are both excellent pros in terms of their attitude but Liverpool have to look at their quality and determine if they can help the club get to where it wants and needs to be. They are squad players in my opinion, but will they both settle for that role? At their age I doubt it. These two lads are not flops by any means, so if BR decides to sell one or both of them and dip into the transfer market he better make sure that the replacement(s) are an upgrade on them.
ReplyDeleteYou know very well that Rodgers prefers players who are flexible in their roles, and yet you still advocate for something other than that. Part of what Rodgers will continue to value in Allen is his versatility. It's the same with Gerrard and Henderson, they are equally versatile players given the roles they've filled over time. Every player in front of the back 4 has filled different roles this season, even our strikers, the only exception being Lucas who every seems to think needs to be replaced with another dedicated DM. What you're proposing is an interesting idea but it just won't happen. Why would Rodgers suddenly change the way he approaches games and forms his tactics? A "specific" player actually won't fit what the club is trying to achieve.
ReplyDeleteB Rodgers should not sell J Allen(23) he is a good player. Who could excel in upcoming years, he is too cautious but he has alot of tools in his locker to become a top class quality football player for the club.
ReplyDeleteB Rodgers needs to ship out these 10 dead wood average or injury prone players in the summer:
1: GK B Jones
2: RB: M Kelly
3: CB: S Coates
4: CB: K Toure
5: AM: L Alberto
6: RW / RWF: O Assaidi
7: FD: I Aspas
8: FD: F Borini
And the two abyzmal, pathetic loan signings we have had for the year, A Cissokho LB and V Moses RW / RWF or LW/ LWF.
The 7 players we own could bring club in 25-35M Cash to the club
And B Rodgers should replace those 9 dead wood average players with class qulaity players who will help improve the squad dramatically. So there is class, quality competition for places in every position at club. And so club can have strong squad capable of competing in 4 competions year in year out:
Five Defensive Players: Desperately needed to shore up Defence:
1: GK: A Mccarthy(24) Of Reading for £4-£7M to compete and Cover S Mignolet(25) for next 5-7 years
2: RB: N Clyne(23) Of Southampton for £6-£10M to compete and Cover G Johnson(28) for next 2- 3 years
3: CB: K Papadopolous(21) Of Schalke for £8-12M to compete and Cover M Skrtel(28) for next 2-4 years
4: LB: S Umtiti(20) Of Lyon for 5-8M to compete and Cover J Enrique(27)
for next 2- 4 years
5: DM: M'Vila(23) Of Rubin Kazan for 7-10M to compete and Cover L Leiva(26) for next 4-5 years
4 Class Creative Attacking Pacey Quick Players:
6: CM: Koke(21) Of A Madrid for 16-22M to compete with J Allen(23) and J Henderson(23) for next 3-6 years
7: AM: A Lallana(25) Of Southampton for 12-17M to compete with Coutinho (21) and Suso(20) for next 2-4 years
8: LW / LWF: Y Konoplyanka(25) Of Dnipro for 12- 16M to compete and Cover Ibe(19) for next 3-5 years .
9: FD: L Muriel(23) Of Udinese for 8-12M to compete and cover D Sturrigde (24) for next 3-5 years
10/Ten Dead wood average players need to be shown the door this summer, then the 9/ Nine Class quality players need to be brought to club over next two Transfer windows.
What I mean by 'specific' is a player who excels in a specific role. That doesn't mean he can't play elsewhere, but he has to at least excel in one particular area. Coutinho, Sterling, Henderson, Gerrard etc all excel at one particular role. Allen doesn't. That's the point, and that's why he will never displace any of the aforementioned players.
ReplyDeleteIf Allen was an amazing playmaker or defensive midfielder, he'd get in the team, but he's merely proficient at both.
The reason Lucas and Henderson 'came good' is because they excel at one particular role. Lucas at DM; Henderson in the 'box to box' midfielder role. Allen doesn't excel in any given role (that's important to the team), which is why (IMO) he won't become a regular.
ReplyDeleteWhat role do they excel in? Gerrard has, at one point or another in his career, been brilliant as a central midfielder, an attacking midfielder, in the pocket behind the striker and now as a holding midfielder. Henderson has played so many roles this season I'm not sure you can even classify him. Check out an "action" map of him on squawka, it's essentially a scattering of dots over the whole pitch. Coutinho is a better example but he started his Liverpool career and had some of his best form playing on the left. He still needs to improve in order to be considered an excellent number 10.
ReplyDeleteAllen excels at football. He's very good positionally and he's very good at passing. I don't think it's important that we be able to give a specific positional name to what he does. For me the reason he's not in the team has nothing to do with him not being good at something specific, it's that he's just not quite good enough overall. Gerrard, Henderson and Coutinho have all proven themselves to be better players, period. Allen just needs to lift his game and do what he does at a higher level, with more accuracy, at a higher pace. Or we'll replace him with a player who can.
Seriously, I don't need to explain what Gerrard, Henderson and Coutinho excel at, and for you to dispute that is hugely disingenuous (IMO)
ReplyDeleteIf LFC need someone to play as a No.10, Coutinho will play there because he is good at that role.
In the past, if LFC needed a box-to-box midfielder who could score/create goals, Gerrard could play there and excel in that role.
If LFC need a midfielder with energy, stamina to get up and down the pitch, and be a creative threat, Henderson is good at that role.
Gerrard et al may be able to play in different roles, but they can all perform to a very high level in one particular role too (and by high-level, I mean capable of having a consistent specific , measurable impact).
No matter what the position, Allen is not first choice. DM? No, that's Lucas or Gerrard. AM? Coutinho or Henderson. No 10? Coutinho. Right wing? Sterling. Left wing? Coutinho again, or Moses.
If Allen excelled in any of the above positions, he would be in the team on a regular basis.
I see what you're saying about Coutinho et al being better players, but there are players out there who are not the greatest, but still excel in one position. A prime example is Jon Flanagan. He's no world-beater, but he's a very good full-back. Contrast him with Martin Kelly, and you have the same situation as Allen. Kelly does not excel at full-back (IMO); he's merely proficient, which is why Flanagan is now ahead of him in the pecking order.
If it's valid to say that Henderson's role, what he excels at, is " energy and stamina to get up and down the pitch" then it's equally valid to say that Allen's role is "controlled passing, keep possession and link up with team mates". So if Liverpool need someone to excel in that role then Allen is that player. He needs to be better at it, but it's a perfectly reasonable description of what he contributes.
ReplyDeleteGenerally I don't agree with what are those traditional roles of players and I believe the way Rodgers runs his football team supports that kind of view. The best example I can give you in Sterling - you easily label him a right winger but if you check his positioning in recent games it's actually 50/50 on each wing. You just can't pigeon hole these players as one thing and say that is why they are in the team. They are in the team quite obviously because they do a lot of different things very very well. Allen also fits that bill, he just needs to lift his entire game, not mould himself into some arbitrary classification.
Sometimes I think wtfish is this?! Then It all makes sense when I see the name jaimie K at the bottom!
ReplyDeleteThe obvious but clichéd example is Xavi. Consider that when Rodgers first started here we were all taking about tiki-taka football. It hasn't worked out that way but Allen fit into that model perfectly. One player vital to that style of play at Barcelona is Xavi. He's also a player that is difficult to classify. He's not a defensive midfielder but he's also not attacking. You might call him "box to box" at a stretch but he scores very few goals and also produces few assists so I don't think that's right. "Box to box" is quite an English football concept that we use primarily for guys like Gerrard. Xavi is nothing like Gerrard so I don't agree that he's box to box. So what is he? He fills exactly the role that Allen is built for. He's the link man, the bridge between the deep lying DM Iniesta and the attacking guys in front of him like Fabregas and Messi. He keeps possession, makes good passes, dictates the direction of the play and supports pressing. He doesn't tackle much or make too many defensive plays. He creates some limited chances but gets very few actual assists. So there is very little "end product" that you like to refer to. I challenge anyone to put a traditional football positional term around Xavi that is accurate.
ReplyDeleteOf course Allen is no Xavi, but that's why I say it's not his style of play that is the problem, it's his quality and consistency. Allen does what Xavi does at a lesser level. No one would argue that Xavi wouldn't add something to Liverpool so to me Allen is a player we need to improve, not be sold and replaced by someone more "specific". If he can't improve then so be it, he's just not good enough.