On Sunday, Ex-Red Jonjo Shelvey put in another good performance against Liverpool, and chipped-in with an absolutely stunning goal, of which any player in the world would be proud. Despite that display of technical mastery, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson continues to claim that the 21-year old is not good enough to play for Champions League team.
In his column for the Liverpool Echo this week, Lawro insisted that Shelvey 'made the right choice in leaving' Anfield, but argued that he's currently playing at his optimum quality level. He observed:
"Shelvey is a good Premier League player but is not at the Champions League level to which the Reds are now aspiring. They have kicked on. And Shelvey isn’t quite good enough for that standard"
This is not the first time Lawro has made this point. Speaking to the BBC earlier in the season, Lawro delivered another subtly scathing assessment of Shelvey, who cost Swansea £6m over the summer:
"It never really happened for him [Shelvey] at Anfield but I don't think he's really a top-six player. You can understand why he made the move - he will play regularly at Swansea and it's a good move for all three parties".
Shelvey - described after the game as 'excellent' by Brendan Rodgers - has talent, but Rodgers clearly favours quick, skilful, technically gifted players, with excellent game intelligence, and lighting speed of mind. Shelvey is more of a classic rough-and-tumble English central midfielder, and such players are a dying breed in the modern game.
Whether that means he's 'not quite good enough' for the Champions League is, however, is open to debate. It could be argued that Shelvey never had the chance to prosper at Liverpool. After all, with Steven Gerrard and Lucas automatic choices, and £35m worth of central midfield talent also in the squad (Allen and Henderson), it was always going to be difficult for him to get regular playing time.
Additionally, the technical quality of Shelvey's goal against Liverpool suggests he has the ability to make an impact at a higher level. If Gerrard, Coutinho or Suarez had scored that goal, they'd be lionised by Reds fans (and the media), and probably be called 'world class'. And let's not forget, Shelvey is still only 21 (!) - How many players of a similar age are scoring goals like that?
Shelvey also had a superb game against Liverpool in the 2-2 draw earlier in the season, during which he showed great character, and top class mentality to recover from two soul-destroying errors to impact the game in a positive manner. Again, if the roles were reversed and it was Gerrard who made those mistakes, but scored/assisted for two further goals, Liverpool fans would've heaped massive praise on the skipper.
As such, I disagree with Lawro that Shelvey is not good enough for the Champions League. In fact, he'd be a very handy player to have in the squad right now, and I'd take him over Joe Allen every day of the week.
Author: Jaimie K
In his column for the Liverpool Echo this week, Lawro insisted that Shelvey 'made the right choice in leaving' Anfield, but argued that he's currently playing at his optimum quality level. He observed:
"Shelvey is a good Premier League player but is not at the Champions League level to which the Reds are now aspiring. They have kicked on. And Shelvey isn’t quite good enough for that standard"
This is not the first time Lawro has made this point. Speaking to the BBC earlier in the season, Lawro delivered another subtly scathing assessment of Shelvey, who cost Swansea £6m over the summer:
"It never really happened for him [Shelvey] at Anfield but I don't think he's really a top-six player. You can understand why he made the move - he will play regularly at Swansea and it's a good move for all three parties".
Shelvey - described after the game as 'excellent' by Brendan Rodgers - has talent, but Rodgers clearly favours quick, skilful, technically gifted players, with excellent game intelligence, and lighting speed of mind. Shelvey is more of a classic rough-and-tumble English central midfielder, and such players are a dying breed in the modern game.
Whether that means he's 'not quite good enough' for the Champions League is, however, is open to debate. It could be argued that Shelvey never had the chance to prosper at Liverpool. After all, with Steven Gerrard and Lucas automatic choices, and £35m worth of central midfield talent also in the squad (Allen and Henderson), it was always going to be difficult for him to get regular playing time.
Additionally, the technical quality of Shelvey's goal against Liverpool suggests he has the ability to make an impact at a higher level. If Gerrard, Coutinho or Suarez had scored that goal, they'd be lionised by Reds fans (and the media), and probably be called 'world class'. And let's not forget, Shelvey is still only 21 (!) - How many players of a similar age are scoring goals like that?
Shelvey also had a superb game against Liverpool in the 2-2 draw earlier in the season, during which he showed great character, and top class mentality to recover from two soul-destroying errors to impact the game in a positive manner. Again, if the roles were reversed and it was Gerrard who made those mistakes, but scored/assisted for two further goals, Liverpool fans would've heaped massive praise on the skipper.
As such, I disagree with Lawro that Shelvey is not good enough for the Champions League. In fact, he'd be a very handy player to have in the squad right now, and I'd take him over Joe Allen every day of the week.
Author: Jaimie K
I can only see this deal if FSG decide to sell Suarez for a boatload of money. Benzema is 26 and in top form. Why would he want to come to Liverpool with SAS already leading the charge. I think we can get a young sturdy striker for less. I like the idea of Danny Ings. I also can't help thinking that Texeira would make a good striker also.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with this. It was a good goal, but I believe it was more luck than anything else. I agree with the notion that he's a throwback rough and tumble CM and the game is faster than that now. He is playing well for SC and should continue to do so for years;-).
ReplyDeleteBased on some of the players that play in the CL. Then yes he is good enough.
ReplyDeleteIs he good enough to make a big impact in the CL? Maybe not.
the only Jonjo remind me what he did at LFC is argue with SAF hahahaaa
ReplyDeleteJonjo was a red and how many of us wish we wore that red shirt?, his show of respect at Anfield was fantastic..................great lad and will always be welcomed by the Liverpool fans, he gave his all, end of!!!
ReplyDeleteShelvey is a better than average premier league footballer, he's just not a top four premier league footballer.
ReplyDeleteAllen and Shelvey are two different types of players. I loved Shelvey and still think he is going to keep improving his game, but Lawro got it right. Shelvey is a rough and tumble player. I think he has game intelligence, but his reaction and proactive in game intelligence is off by a second or two. He is a yellow card waiting to happen and you have to plan your substitution bench based on that liability. I would rather have Allen. To me, Allen was MOTM when he came on the pitch. Allen took over the space between LFC box and midfield. I would rather have Allen.
ReplyDeleteReina was commanding on crosses? Hand over the pot, it must be good :)
ReplyDeleteBenzema more likely a wenger target as well !
ReplyDeleteOff topic : i would rather spend $ on kagawa and chicharito !
He was gifted the goal - given too much space all through the half and should never have been allowed a strike like this .... We of all people knew what he was capable of and that he would be out to prove a point ! I'm just glad he wasn't on the pitch second half ! He is young and will improve with playing regularly and good management . Just didn't fit in at current time with players we have but would have been a good squad player for our future in Europe .
ReplyDeleteRespect re lack of celebration !
Clearly Jonjo wasnt happy at being on the bench, the boy wants to play. Whereas players like Aspas and Alberto are happy to pick up their pay cheques and not kick a ball.
ReplyDeleteLukaku seems more like an Andy Carroll type...don't see him playing for us.
ReplyDeleteI think he would've been a very useful squad player at least and we definitely could've done with him at times this season. He's playing at a good level for someone his age and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up at a champions league in the future. I think with the return of suso and the likelihood that we'll sign a top class cm in the summer, he probably would've found himself surplus to requirements by next season. Still think he'd have been useful this season tho
ReplyDeleteShelvey would have been sitting on the bench at Anfield too if he did not go to Swansea so not sure what your point is.
ReplyDeleteThat's my freaking point! Shelvey WANTED to play football therefore left the club. Aspas and Alberto are on the bench and even Moses gets on ahead of them, therefore they are happy to just sit there.
ReplyDeleteI have to be honest here and admit that we haven't missed him as much as I thought we would. Comparing him to Allen makes no sense because he plays in a much more advanced position. If we were to compare him it should be Henderson and I'm pretty sure Henderson would have been picked ahead of Shelvey had he stayed. All that said, we are very thin in midfield and I would have preferred had we hung on to players like Shelvey and Suso and not bought Alberto. I'm dead certain either one of them could have done the same job Alberto has and it would have saved us 7 odd million quid.
ReplyDeleteAnd Shelvey can keep his head up because it's only Lawro who said it.
ReplyDeleteWas Aspas going to keep Suarez or Sturridge on the bench? Clearly not.
ReplyDeleteAlberto has the same issue with Gerrard, Sterling Henderson, Allen and Coutinho all ahead of him in the pecking order.
To suggest that Aspas and Alberto are just happy to collect their pay and are not interested to play is just being ridiculous.
Have you ever heard of backup players or do you think Aspas and Alberto were guaranteed first team football when they signed on the dotted line?
Agree Aspas is a mystery and may well leave in the summer Alberto might need a loan spell. We e don't know that either is happy thoughat the moment they can't go anywhere.
ReplyDeleteWell at 21 he is still quite young and is still developing. he might now go on to score goals like that every week or he might just accept that was the goal of his career, immediately announce his retirement from the game and retreat to his allotment
ReplyDeleteWe'd have been better off keeping him instead of Alberto (presumably- Alberto could be the world's best fucking player for all we know) but I still think selling him was the right move. If we were in Europe this season maybe we could have kept him, but he would have just stagnated had he stayed.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he has the mentality to be a Liverpool player. That could change, he is quite young and shows some good qualities (confidence, willingness to take responsibility). Personally, I don't think it will. Some players are just slightly deficient in the kind of intelligence that makes top pros. Charlie Adam was the same (although generally worse). He also lacks pace for a top player.
Nice moment though, when he scored and the crowd applauded him. Classy on both sides.
When you mention all of those midfielders, do you really think Alberto can play in all of their positions? I think his main competition is Coutinho, but when Lucas is fit, who drops out? Coutinho most likely or Sterling. So Alberto all of a sudden doesnt even make the 18 on match day.
ReplyDeleteLOL about backup players, but they need to be good enough to come off the bench. But they are not. Moses, Alberto, Aspas are Average. they belong with Shelvey in a Swansea / Southampton or even Everton.
Benzema is lazy, NO!
ReplyDeleteWe should get Greizmann of Real Sociedad. He might be a bit costly around 25 mil but quality too
ReplyDeleteIt's a funny one, his technique often doesn't match his ambition, his finishing can be extremely erratic. But I've always felt there is something about him, and he has always had that ability for the spectacular in his locker.
ReplyDeleteIt is difficult to speculate what type of player will emerge in the long term. I think if he could find a greater level of consistency he can go on to be an England international and play in the CL, but at the same time I wouldn't be surprised if his career kind of plateaus out. Either way though, he needs to play games to find out and I don't think he would have had that chance at Liverpool, so from the player's point of view it was certainly the right decision.
How do you know that they are happy to not be playing? Do you expect them to go and play on the pitch themselves, without the coach picking them?
ReplyDeleteReina at his best certainly was. His last 3 seasons were poor, but that is why I said Mignolet isn't as good as Reina used to be rather than as good as Reina is.
ReplyDeleteSo who do you suggest should we have on the bench then?
ReplyDeleteYes, that would be ideal. I would also suggest Gomes from spurs, their 3rd keeper behind hogo and brad. Gomes would definitely be an upgrade from our brad jones. We will need a good 2nd keeper to keep Mignolet on his toes for the CL
ReplyDeleteI think Remy would be a better option because he is already proven in the CL AND BPL. He can also play as a target man or as a more 'Sturridge' like player who runs at players. He could play out wide sometimes to rest sterling or sturridge. Since Sturridge is injury prone Remy would be a much better player to get then Muriel. Although mute. Could be one for the future and we could get both if Suarez leaves
ReplyDeleteSomeone like that guy from Basel? Oh, he went to London, yes... Alongsid one of the best, and young, DM in the world. But we do not need a DM, right?
ReplyDeleteGary Medel from Cardiff could give SG a chance to rest. We could also get Milner. He doesn't play much at City and could be a like for like replacement to rest Gerrard for a few games. He could play as a RW as well
ReplyDeletei think rodgers actually gave shelvey a fair crack of the whip last season and to be fair he missed a fair few sitters. he needs a couple of full seasons to make that jump. Which i think he can and therefore disagree with lawrenson's assessment - not only is it harsh but its unbecoming to write of a player who is only 21 - perserverance has its own benefits as we find out with hendo.
ReplyDeleteShelvey has great physique and strength but perhaps lacks the finesse of gerrard to take free kicks or make the killer pass. However he does have a point to prove and he has on both occasions raised his game against us.
I hope he does come good - i think working with laudrop would have been good for him - but the swans chose monks!
Give it a couple of years im sure a big club will come in for him.
Wait, Gomes is still at spurs?
ReplyDeleteSurely he's not that good if he's been banished to the bench for at least a few years?
Go back for Luc Castaignos
ReplyDeleteNo Karim, his character is lower then suspect. He's not near the quality of sturridge and suarez. 25 million? Hell no, DM, LB/RB & W are a long shopping list and will be absurdly hard to fill.
ReplyDeleteI would pick Verrati then Isco, Yann M'Villa, Micah Richards, Konoplyanka
ReplyDeleteOkay as you asked so nicely
ReplyDeleteFirst XI when fully fit
Mignolet, Johnson, Agger, Sakho, Enrique, Lucas, Henderson, Gerrard, Sterling, Suarez, Sturridge
7 subs
Jones, Toure, Skrtel, Flannagan, Moses, Coutinho, Texiera
We could do with a decent second keeper but Gomes does not fall into that category. If you bought Gomes a pint he'd probably drop it
ReplyDeleteFirst of all kroos wants 250k a week apparently which is the stumbling block with bayern. Secondly, if you think we can get kroos and Reus in our first season back in the champions league you're dreaming. Those 2 could go to pretty much any team in the world that they want. We're not in a position to be getting the worlds top stars just yet
ReplyDeleteEverything I have ever read or heard from Lawro has been garbage so I find it naturally hard to agree with him. I do to some degree here though.
ReplyDeleteShelvey benefitted from our players getting a but giddy and giving him all the to me and space he needed to look good. Having said that he does have that kind of quality to score goals like he did did and it was fantastic. Jaimie said he was excellent when he basically scored or set up every goal in the 2-2 draw. Perhaps its me but that is not what I would call an excellent game at all even if it was Gerard I would be slating the errors too much. Like Adam Shelvey has benefitted from not having to think too much and play on instinct. That is the best way to get him playing but I am not sure he will improve dramatically at all. Mainly because like Adam he doesn't have that game intelligence.
I understand the Allen/ Shelvey thing as if that is a swap we made but I personally don't see the comparison. The better comparison would be Coutinho as they are the more similar players. If you want more control in a game (like the Swansea game) you have Allen, Shelvey would more likely give you what he gave in the 2 all. Flashes or brilliance and brain farts. These two are not comparable as they serve very different jobs. Would I have both in the team? Yes. Do I think Shelvey would play much? No so it is better for him that he is gone. Allen may not play much either but what he does offer the team when coming on as a sub is something Shelvey would not. If Shelvey was used it would be lesser like for like.
Also when watching that goal above, who in red comes out with any credit? It's not Sterling who barely jogs in to picture late in the day (instead of helping to double up) It's not Cout also jogging about as Dyer runs in front of him ahead of Agger and Gerard. It's not Skrtel who backs off and off creating more space in front of the box or any of the lads on our right hand side who for some reason are making no one and are not aware of the threat Shelvey had already shown himself to be by that point. We were lax in that game. Very lax.
ReplyDeleteI also made the Adam comparison. You somehow copied me whilst writing yours first. You shit.
ReplyDeleteI can't see that Shelvey would add much to our game. He'd have to play instead of either Coutinho or Henderson and both players are better options. Allen at least adds something different and can play pretty much any role in a 3 man midfield. Shelvey would end up getting really limited game time, I think he'd be totally wasted. He's effectively a downgrade on anything we've got. He's not a bad player by any standard but a couple of spectacular long range goals don't make a brilliant football player. He's in that awkward place between not being a great creator for his team mates and otherwise not being a great covering midfielder. His general team awareness lets him down and like you say he's lacking the kind of intelligence we look for in a player. I honestly don't think we'd be any better with him in the squad.
ReplyDelete