In September 2013, Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers splashed out £7m on Portuguese defender Tiago Ilori, and to many, it seemed like a pointless transfer, and a waste of money. Well, less than five months later, the Reds have farmed the 20-year old out on loan to Granada, and this (IMO) is yet another indictment of Rodgers's ineffective performance in last summer's transfer market.
I'm a big fan of Rodgers, and he's clearly the right manager to take Liverpool forward, but over the summer, he created unhealthy competition in defensive positions (a point I've made - under opposition - all season), and inevitably, something had to give.
Well, why else is Ilori leaving? And how can the transfer be seen as anything other than a waste of money?
How many other top-class clubs spend £7m on a player who never plays, and then goes out on loan 4.5 months after signing?
LFC's argument seems to be that Ilori is 'one for the future', but the £7m-dollar question is this: Did Rodgers NEED to sign the youngster over the summer? Was it an essential purchase?
The answer (IMO) is an resounding NO. Prior to his arrival (on Sept 2nd), LFC already had Skrtel, Sakho, Toure, Agger in the squad, so it was obvious that Ilori would never get any time on the pitch, so why sign him? Why spend £7m of the club's cash on a player who would obviously spend the entire season warming the bench?
Liverpool (arguably) don't have the luxury of spending £7m on an academy player right now; the first priority should be to spend available transfer funds on players for the PRESENT, who can come in and help the club finish in the top four NOW. Once that's achieved, then Rodgers can spend money on building for the future.
Additionally, it's not as if LFC is bereft of talented young players, is it? The club's youth teams are bursting at the seams with up-and-coming youngsters, so, why couldn't Rodgers just promote an Academy centre-back to the first-team squad, and use the Ilori £7m on someone else?
Another thing to consider: historically speaking, the majority of LFC young players who go out on loan invariably end up leaving, and/or toiling in obscurity at some other club. Very few, if any, return to Anfield and become fixtures in the first team. As such, the idea that Ilori is 'one for the future' is clearly predicated on an extremely flawed premise.
Rodgers has basically paid a £7m to allow Granada to freely benefit from Ilori's talent. I don't see how that makes sounds financial sense for LFC. Add to this the £15m spent on Aspas and Alberto, and you have £21m utterly wasted by the manager in the last transfer window. That money could've gone on ONE experienced, top-class player; someone who could be making the difference for LFC right now.
Rodgers talks about squad strength, but the signings of Alberto and Aspas have arguably weakened the squad; they hardly ever play, and when they do, they make no impact. Their places - plus Ilori's - could've (and should've) been taken by a couple of players capable of making a consistent impact on the team.
After LFC's defensive woes this season, it seems likely that another massive shake-up will take place this summer, and I can see another experienced centre-back coming in. What won't happen (IMO) is Ilori returning to Anfield in a blaze of glory and becoming first-choice for for LFC. I genuinely believe we've seen the last of him. He'll probably do well at Granada, who will then sign him on the cheap this summer (£4-£5m), or some other La Liga club will come in with a bid.
When all is said and done, it basically boils down to this: only TWO of Rodgers' 15 signings (Coutinho and Sturridge) are unqualified successes, and even Coutinho is looking a bit ropey this season.
* Aspas, Alberto (£14m) and Moses rarely play, and when they do, they add next to nothing to the team.
* Borini, Assaidi, and Ilori are out on loan (Combined cost: £21m)
* Aspas, Alberto, Borini, Assaidi and Ilori - £35m combined cost.
* Sahin left after six months.
* Sakho, Toure and Mignolet are increasingly defensively shaky (Combined cost: £26m)
* Cissokho is decidedly average.
* Joe Allen is a good player, but not the right player for LFC.
People will accuse me of being harsh on Rodgers here, but there's no point glossing over his ineffective transfer performance. If LFC's squad is weak, it's because the manager has failed to utilise the club's transfer funds effectively, and the loaning of Ilori is just the latest example of that.
And just to be 100% clear: it's not about expecting players to make an 'immediate impact' - the key issue is the counter-productive habit of spending money on players LFC don't need and/or players who don't have a hope of playing. It's the loss of utility that LFC experiences as a result of buying the wrong players that's the issue here.
It's now January 20th, and despite the squad being decimated by injury, Liverpool still haven't signed anyone. Well, after examining his performance in the summer transfer window, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if FSG are reluctant to hand Rodgers any more money.
And yet...Liverpool still have a great chance of making the top four, and Rodgers deserves immense credit for that. It's just galling to know that things could be so much better right now if the manager had spent the club's transfer funds more effectively (!)
I remain 100% behind Rodgers. Some people can't seem to understand how it's possible to support the manager but also be critical of certain aspects of his tenure, but it's absolutely possible; and normal (IMO). Rodgers has to get it right in the next two transfer windows, though, or all the good work he's done so far could be for nothing...
Author: Jaimie K
I'm a big fan of Rodgers, and he's clearly the right manager to take Liverpool forward, but over the summer, he created unhealthy competition in defensive positions (a point I've made - under opposition - all season), and inevitably, something had to give.
Well, why else is Ilori leaving? And how can the transfer be seen as anything other than a waste of money?
How many other top-class clubs spend £7m on a player who never plays, and then goes out on loan 4.5 months after signing?
LFC's argument seems to be that Ilori is 'one for the future', but the £7m-dollar question is this: Did Rodgers NEED to sign the youngster over the summer? Was it an essential purchase?
The answer (IMO) is an resounding NO. Prior to his arrival (on Sept 2nd), LFC already had Skrtel, Sakho, Toure, Agger in the squad, so it was obvious that Ilori would never get any time on the pitch, so why sign him? Why spend £7m of the club's cash on a player who would obviously spend the entire season warming the bench?
Liverpool (arguably) don't have the luxury of spending £7m on an academy player right now; the first priority should be to spend available transfer funds on players for the PRESENT, who can come in and help the club finish in the top four NOW. Once that's achieved, then Rodgers can spend money on building for the future.
Additionally, it's not as if LFC is bereft of talented young players, is it? The club's youth teams are bursting at the seams with up-and-coming youngsters, so, why couldn't Rodgers just promote an Academy centre-back to the first-team squad, and use the Ilori £7m on someone else?
Another thing to consider: historically speaking, the majority of LFC young players who go out on loan invariably end up leaving, and/or toiling in obscurity at some other club. Very few, if any, return to Anfield and become fixtures in the first team. As such, the idea that Ilori is 'one for the future' is clearly predicated on an extremely flawed premise.
Rodgers has basically paid a £7m to allow Granada to freely benefit from Ilori's talent. I don't see how that makes sounds financial sense for LFC. Add to this the £15m spent on Aspas and Alberto, and you have £21m utterly wasted by the manager in the last transfer window. That money could've gone on ONE experienced, top-class player; someone who could be making the difference for LFC right now.
Rodgers talks about squad strength, but the signings of Alberto and Aspas have arguably weakened the squad; they hardly ever play, and when they do, they make no impact. Their places - plus Ilori's - could've (and should've) been taken by a couple of players capable of making a consistent impact on the team.
After LFC's defensive woes this season, it seems likely that another massive shake-up will take place this summer, and I can see another experienced centre-back coming in. What won't happen (IMO) is Ilori returning to Anfield in a blaze of glory and becoming first-choice for for LFC. I genuinely believe we've seen the last of him. He'll probably do well at Granada, who will then sign him on the cheap this summer (£4-£5m), or some other La Liga club will come in with a bid.
When all is said and done, it basically boils down to this: only TWO of Rodgers' 15 signings (Coutinho and Sturridge) are unqualified successes, and even Coutinho is looking a bit ropey this season.
* Aspas, Alberto (£14m) and Moses rarely play, and when they do, they add next to nothing to the team.
* Borini, Assaidi, and Ilori are out on loan (Combined cost: £21m)
* Aspas, Alberto, Borini, Assaidi and Ilori - £35m combined cost.
* Sahin left after six months.
* Sakho, Toure and Mignolet are increasingly defensively shaky (Combined cost: £26m)
* Cissokho is decidedly average.
* Joe Allen is a good player, but not the right player for LFC.
People will accuse me of being harsh on Rodgers here, but there's no point glossing over his ineffective transfer performance. If LFC's squad is weak, it's because the manager has failed to utilise the club's transfer funds effectively, and the loaning of Ilori is just the latest example of that.
And just to be 100% clear: it's not about expecting players to make an 'immediate impact' - the key issue is the counter-productive habit of spending money on players LFC don't need and/or players who don't have a hope of playing. It's the loss of utility that LFC experiences as a result of buying the wrong players that's the issue here.
It's now January 20th, and despite the squad being decimated by injury, Liverpool still haven't signed anyone. Well, after examining his performance in the summer transfer window, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if FSG are reluctant to hand Rodgers any more money.
And yet...Liverpool still have a great chance of making the top four, and Rodgers deserves immense credit for that. It's just galling to know that things could be so much better right now if the manager had spent the club's transfer funds more effectively (!)
I remain 100% behind Rodgers. Some people can't seem to understand how it's possible to support the manager but also be critical of certain aspects of his tenure, but it's absolutely possible; and normal (IMO). Rodgers has to get it right in the next two transfer windows, though, or all the good work he's done so far could be for nothing...
Author: Jaimie K
he was signed because skertel was to be shipped out but no one came for him in summer and he turned out to be the best defender in the first half ...
ReplyDeletethese things happen..
In hindsight the money would have been better used .. but u cant always plan this thing out...
Pat - Ilori signed on the 2nd September. Surely but that time, it was obvious Skrtel was staying?
ReplyDeleteI respectfully disagree with you. The policy of LFC is clearly to build for long term success, meaning to achieve steady improvement, until in the position that there is a world class first team, world class bench, world class reserve and youth teams with the potential to become world class. It has to be done gradually or face financial ruin. We do not want that again.
ReplyDeleteWell said, Rodgers transfer dealing have been awful. Sturridge & Couthino are doing a great job of hiding all his failures in the transfer market. Liverpool seem to be buying players simply to loan them back out again. If he has no intention of giving the likes of Aspas, Mosses and Alberto game time then why sign them at all?
ReplyDeleteThis article is just plain daft, its full of contradictions, you say signing Ilori was unnecessary then you claim, Sakho and Toure are defensively shaky and Cissokho is poor, that leaves LFC with only Skrtel, ( Agger has injuries), even Skrtel was on the verge of being shipped out in the summer. Your article is just not up to it
ReplyDeleteYou can't get all your signings right and but if LFC don't get their signings right this window it might be Brendan Rodgers last because these owners wont keep dishing cash out if the club on the pitch isn't meeting their standards. Mignolet ....rb.. Ilori Sakho Cissokho --- Allen,Alberto,Moses or Assaidi,Coutinho,- -Sturridge ,Aspas .or Borini Does this look like a team that will push the top clubs for 4th spot ? Every player you sign must be one you think can hold down a place in your team or at least has potential. Most of these are not going to get games for top 4 clubs.. Sturridge is quality while Coutinho still has to add aspects to his game before he is at the top level(finishing etc). Come on BR make every signing count. One good player is better than 3 bad players.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, what do you do for a living if you don't mind me asking?
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with him as I watch the games now thinking we are going to concede goals no matter who we are playing. I know the whole team has to defend but defenders have to do their bit and say they are failing. believe it or not I think Enrique has been missed on the left.
ReplyDeletetotally agree. we are not in a position to be doing this. Every penny has to count when we are dealing in the transfer market and this is not how to do that.
ReplyDeleteI run my own business; write, and do several other editorial-related freelance jobs.
ReplyDeleteI agree totally JK!!!
ReplyDeleteI still don't understand what our transfer committee really does,we have the likes of wisdom suso borini out on loan then you sign alberto ilori and aspas for 21m as their replacements???couldn't we have promoted some youngsters to the first team
ReplyDeleteWe could have signed wanyama and eriksen for less than that,both would have improved our starting eleven.sakho mignolet and toure were good deals but the number of overpriced average signings brendan has made who haven't improved the team need to be discussed
Totally agree about Wanyama and Eriksen. Also, Dejan Lovren would've been a good signing. Would've taken him over Sakho, though to be fair, I was in favour of the Sakho signing.
ReplyDeleteSome youngsters work out, some dont. I would imagine when Kolo leaves then Llori will be the replacement.
ReplyDeleteIf Llori develops into a fine player you'll be eating your words.
ReplyDeleteNot to sign one first team ready player was pathetic, not signing a proven striker was stupid (note sturridge injury) not hindsight I and others said it at the time.
ReplyDeleteAside from any argument over perceived animosity/aggro from fans, I think the real reason why some 50% of the folk that you polled don't want him back is because he's just not good enough. He's not the same player we sold, he's not worth £20mil, and he's not as good as any of our current options (well, maybe a straight swap with Aspas would be suitable...)
ReplyDeleteJaimie, surely we signed Ilori because he came very highly rated and if LFC did not sign him then somebody else would have.
ReplyDeleteEven chelsea were after Ilori so if we did not sign him then he DEFINITELY would have gone to another top club and most probably would have been sent on loan to by that club to gain valuable experience.
Not sure what the problem is with LFC/Rodgers/FSG making signings for the future?
Would Ilori have been a regular if he had gone to Chelsea?
Thought you might have been a fluffer in risque movies, as you like to get things going before it gets darn right dirty.
ReplyDeleteNot one first team ready player? You must be watching another team playing in red then.
ReplyDeleteIt is true what the writer is saying, most of B Rodgers have been poor signings. Its like he is signing players that would improve Swansea even though we are not Swansea. We are Liverpool
ReplyDeleteThe signings B Rodgers has brought to club who are of Liverpool class and quality and offer Squad something are as follows:
Allen(23) even though we he was not worth 15m and is more like a 7m Player. But he has class and quality, he is just too safe and cautious.
Coutinho(21) and Sturridge(24), Sakho(23), Mignolet(25) was a good signing but as P Reina(31) is world class. I thought and hoped he would be replaced by two young class quality goalkeepers who could keep each other on their toes for next 4-6 years. So complacency did not creep in, Rodgers shipped out Reina and did not bring another class young GK to compete with Mignolet(25). And already this season Mignolet has made 3-4 big mistakes which has cost us 6 points in 3 games.
B Rodgers has brought in more poor signings to club than class , quality ones. And as an attacking manager, most of his attacking signings have been abyzmal and woeful. Out of all the attacking players he has brought to club only Coutinho(21) and Sturridge(24) have looked and are the part.
The owners need to back B Rodgers well this month at least 36M to bring in these 4 class, quality players that we desperately need, who will hit the ground running straight away.
1 and 2: Are two Defensive midfielders who would do well for club now and in next few years if we get back in champions league, as our back 4 needs protection and in the premier league this year the three in the middle have not protected the back 4 well enough as we concede goals for fun.
As i do not think the likes of Allen(24), Henderson(23), Lucas(26) could go to places like the Allianz Arena, San Siro, Nou Camp, Stade Velodrome , Stadio delle Alpi Or the Santiago Bernabeu and dominate games. Like the likes of Alonso, Gerrard, Hamman, Mascherano and Sissoko have in the past when we were in Champions league.
These two players should be priority this month if we aim to make champions league this season: M'Vila(23) Of Rubin Kazan for 8-12M and Fernando Reges(26) Of Porto or B Matuidi(26) for 1-3M as both of these players contracts are up in the summer.
Two of the three should be brought to club this month
And these two class quality Goalscoring wingers should be brought to club for combined total for 20M
1: RW/ RWF: M Salah(21) Of Basel for 7-12M to compete and Cover sterling
2: LW / LWF: D Capel(25) Of Sporting Clube De Portugal / Lisbon for 5-7M to compete with Ibe, so we can send average , abyzmal useless V Moses(22) back to chelsea as soon as possible.
dont get down to there level then .. you should act better than them .. what they did for Collymore is not acceptable but dont defend against the abuse with another abuse ...
ReplyDeleteIts disgraceful when we had much better players than those we signed, we still have them but the likes of Morgan and Branningan and kids like Rossiter and Smith are given chances ahead of them. it is criminal.
ReplyDeleteWhat are you on about,, he was never to replace anyone. He was seen as a player for the future.. He was bought when he was because he was relatively cheap, we wanted him but didn't want to wait and let his price skyrocket.. It was also clear that he was to be allowed to acclimatise to Liverpool and then be sent out on loan to get the football he needs.. Calling him a flop or outcast is ridiculous, If anything it shows that the peoples'writing such articles don't really have a grasp on what they talk about..
ReplyDeleteWatch this space. he will be back and he'll be even better. Money well spent IMO.
Sakho, Allen and Mignolet have shown they're good players for Liverpool. What annoys me about Rodgers is him talking too much nonsense
ReplyDeleteAsked if Gerrard’s first-half performance was a set-back to him playing in
the deeper role, Rodgers said: “Not at all. “It just shows you the
importance of him in the team" I'm beginning to think Rodgers is a bit
of a dope. Gerrard should NEVER play that role again EVER.
100% Rodgers fault was the Villa game.
Sometimes you can get away with signing good players for low fees, but in general if you pay peanuts you get monkeys. Unless Liverpool start to splash the cash on proven quality instead of wasting money on young gambles the club will never reach the pinnacle.
ReplyDeletetotaly agree.
ReplyDeletei agree with Xkid
ReplyDeleteand there it is,, it says more about the senior players than the poor scapegoat they call Ilori... Time for the likes of Johnson and Toure and Cissokho to step up. Hiding behind comments such as Liverpool ar still title contenders doesn't help anyone when they are unwilling to play their parts.
ReplyDeleteYou go on about Alberto? Compare that to the waste Aquilani which we paid 20 million for, was cripple for most of the time and collected a nice fat wage every week for sitting on his bony behind and doing nothing and then eventually went at a massive loss? Did we not also pay half his wages while he was on loan?
ReplyDeleteSo which is the more prudent signing? Alberto or Aquialni?
I'm an astronaut,, just thought you'd like to know.
ReplyDeleteBoth are a waste of money.
ReplyDeleteI cannot actually belive that you are saying a young player is a waste of money?
ReplyDeleteWhat you call a "failure in the transfer market" is in reality a normal situation at most other clubs. Since BR began at Liverpool he has signed 11 players (2 loan + 9 buys) - Mingolet, Sakho, Toure, Coutinho and Sturridge have all performed admirably (some more than others). Allen and Aspas look to be decent players, and with a decent run might gain the confidence to contribute more. Borini (on loan) is starting to look good after getting valuable steady playing time. I must admit the 2 loans have not performed up to scratch. I didn't know much about Cissokho, but I expected more from Moses. That leaves 2 youngsters that were signed for the future. It will be good for Illori to go out on loan to see if he can replicate what Suso has done so far this season. I also think it will be good if Alberto can get a loan deal (preferrably in the EPL) this Jan. so we can see how good he really is.
ReplyDeleteSo all in all BR has made 5 great signings (All would compete for a spot on most EPL teams), 2 promising signings, 2 crap loan signings, and 2 youngsters for the future.
The real issue is that quality players are not lining up to sign for Liverpool, and I just don't see how you can blame that on BR.
How many times do I have to explain the same point? It's not the player who is the problem, it's Rodgers' transfer policy. Player ability has nothing to do with it. If BR spends £7m on a young player who doesn't make a single appearance; only makes the bench three times, and then goes out on loan after 4.5 months, it's a waste of money.
ReplyDeleteIt's a waste because that money should've been spent on players for *now*, not 3-4 years. LFC don't have the cash to just drop £7m on a player who contributes nothing. That's the point. I've explained this to you many times (and again in the article), but you persist in trying to make out that I'm arguing that the player is the problem. Stop twisting my words just to suit your own argument.
Agree with your main points.
ReplyDeleteI have seen Ilori play though, and he is leaps and bounds better than each of the central defensive dunces we have ruining our defence at present.
He would be a welcome change to the farce we call a defence at the moment!
If only we could fast forward to the future when our starlets are shining...
Does that matter? I mean if I am a footballer and not a fan of Liverpool or Chelsea, where would I go if any one of them bid for me? I think Torres stated the obvious, it was a step up for him but it didn't turn out to be good personally for him. Sad.
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong in stating the obvious? He was hated by Liverpool fans already (due to transfer as well as transfer request) and he had to make fans of new club happy!! Joe Cole and Sturridge said the same thing after joining Liverpool, now who hates Sturridge for doing that?
ReplyDeleteCool, was just wondering how you found the time to write such pieces ;)
ReplyDeleteAll sounds pretty impressive to me. I know many would swap places
ReplyDeleteI just want to know who you think we should sign. Clearly we don't have big money to spend on the mega stars, so whoever else we sign will be a gamble.
ReplyDeleteI was looking for ways of disagreeing with you but frankly I can't. The only thing I might say is BR was one of a number deciding on transfers and Alberto and Ilori might come good in time but even that is based on hope rather than expectation.
ReplyDeleteI am not twisting your words.
ReplyDeleteAlberto and Ilori are still young.
Just like my other post in this article, Chelsea were after Ilori too so if we did not sign him somebody else would have.
Would Ilori have gotten into the Chelsea starting eleven?
Agree but to attract the best you've also got to pay the right money. Double whammy
ReplyDeleteYou also need Champions League to attract the best???
ReplyDeleteI know this is extreme but could this and other transactions be termed 'misappropriation of funds'-deliberately.Why was the money spent in the first place?
ReplyDeleteSo basically your telling everyone who doesnt like Torres that they are Ignorant, pigheaded, outdated, terraced thugish racists
ReplyDeleteTorres made his bed now let him rot in it
Chelsea fans do
ReplyDeleteNo, that's not what I said at all, but if you can't be bothered to interpret my article properly, that's your prerogative.
ReplyDeleteYes, you are twisting my words. Either that, or you just don't get it. You're continually make out that I claim that young players - i.e. the players themselves (in terms of ability) - are a waste of money. That's not my argument.
ReplyDeleteSpeculating about what would happen at other clubs is pointless. It has no impact on what happens at LFC.
Aspas, Alberto, Ilori, Borini and Assaidi are a waste of money because:
* They barely play.
* Three of them are on loan, so LFC get zero benefit for the financial outlay.
* None of those five are helping the team NOW to qualify for the CL.
* The £35m used on those players would've been spent on 2/3 quality players who could be delivering the goods now, helping LFC qualify for the CL.
* Rodgers bought the wrong players. He bought footballers who either don't fit in, are played out of position, or are just plain wrong for the team.
It is the loss of utility to LFC that is the problem.
Player ability has little to do with it. It doesn't matter how good a player is if he's never played.
Those five players may come good, but what difference does it make if LFC fail to qualify for the CL this year? Or next year? That money should've been used to further the club's chances of qualifying this year. Using it on alleged future prospects is negligence (IMO).
Keep looking. There's always a way!
ReplyDeleteI would have to know the BR strategy for this crop of loaned out youngsters before I would agree to 'wastage.' If FSG is truly building for the future and didn't expect the results so far this year, then buying very good young players, training them in the 'Liverpool Way' and then putting them out on loan to get game experience makes perfect sense. If on the other hand the strategy was to get help now, then yeah I guess these are wasted purchases. Maybe the Salah bid is only because there is now an unanticipated window of opportunity to make top 4 this year and BR/FSG have decided not to wait and go for it. The play against AV and the thin bench behind the players make me think we are playing above our ability right now and only SAS are keeping us alive. Hope they can pull it off, but I really feel we don't have the stable of thoroughbreds we need yet.
ReplyDeleteI have a hunch that buying all these kids, combined with the shake-up at the Academy, translates to a change in strategy, at least for the short term, because the Academy was turning out an inferior product.
ReplyDeleteAt first I thought most of that answer was serious, and googled 'weyland yutani colonial marine'...
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of business if you don't mind me asking?
ReplyDeleteArticle about Torres - turns it into something negative about Suarez. Predictable and boring from Jamie once more.
ReplyDeleteIt's the manner in which he left that makes me dislike
ReplyDeletehim. Had he left @ the beginning of the transfer window
I would have understood but to leave it to the last
minute was malicious in my opinion.
Until I see Ilori play, I cannot say he is a waste of money. We definitely need a solution in the CB department, and just buying aging overpriced CB is not the solution. If you look at the team, apart from Gerrard and the back line everyone else in the starting 11 is fairly young, young and skilled is what BR is going for, in a season we may have Ilori back and replacing shirt-loving Skrtle.
ReplyDeleteNo, you've got it the wrong way round. It's an article about Suarez, that turns into something about Torres ;-)
ReplyDeleteI can't give out too much info publicly, unfortunately, as the stalker is out there, constantly scouring the net for personal info about me.
ReplyDelete"the only fans who hate"... blah blah blah do you have any firm evidence to prove they are Liverpool supporters? Or is it just on twitter or some other dubious social network. Or funnier still... was it in a paper a respected ex-player gets paid to write for?
ReplyDeleteThe supporters I know were disappointed with Torres' departure and moved on, quickly. I've never encountered the pigheaded thugs you speak of.
You're regularly lambasted for your own buffonery, can you prove it's not all your handywork to drum up a bit of traffic for this site? Seriously, no other author tries as hard to turn what LFC is really about, upside down.
Oo-er! Deleting messages again. It just confirms how peculiar you are.
ReplyDeleteAnother pile of tripe. If it was done your way we'd go from the relegation fodder you portray LFC as all the way up to intergalactic cup winners. Get on yourself, Einstein, all your hindsight is just that.
ReplyDeleteWBA holds Everton to keep us in the top 4 for another week.
ReplyDelete"How many other top-class clubs spend £7m on a player who never plays, and then goes out on loan 4.5 months after signing?"
ReplyDeleteHow much did Chelsea spend on Moses?
To be honest, like a few other players that have left Liverpool I don't like Torres I don't actually know him on a personal level to judge his character (if he wanted to play or not). However we got paid what we wanted from that deal so unlike Owen I will bid him farewell and hope he does not perform like he did at lfc. I think like most things we hate an idea or feeling rather than the actual situation.
ReplyDeleteMoses was at Chelsea an entire year, and made 43 appearances (!)
ReplyDeleteI didnt know, and couldnt look it up :)
ReplyDeleteI take your point though; I did exaggerate a little I guess.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you still bang on about this. "For the future" is a massive cop out argument and honestly it's all you've got. Whereas JK provides countless points to suggest Rodgers is in the wrong.
ReplyDeleteIf Benitez signed 21M worth of players and loaned them out within a season you would be up in arms but no this is Rodgers we are talking about. Rodgers can't do a thing wrong, right?
Signings for the future can be classed as around 18 years old, realistically an 18 year old would not come into the first team straight away. Illori and Alberto are 21, Rodgers has just FAILED TO USE THEM. Why can't you comprehend this?
You continue to defend Rodgers but so far you have failed to convince anyone about Allen, Alberto, Aspas and Ilori.
EXCELLENT ARTICLE AND MOST RIDICULOUS THING THAT COMES TO MY MIND AFETR READING THIS ARTICLE IS THAT BRENDAN RODGERS SAYING HE NEEDS ATLEAST 4 to 5 TRANSFER WINDOWS TO MAKE OUR TEAM STRONGER...REALITY IS HE CANNOT HANDLE A TOP CLUB LIKE LFC...I WANT RAFA BENITEZ ASAP AS OUR MANAGER
ReplyDeleteThe reasoning behind that is that although he tried to push through a move Suarez is still here whereas Torres isn't. During Torres' time at Liverpool he to was hero worshipped.
ReplyDeleteLove/hate are two very strong emotions that tend to go hand in hand. I must admit i loved Torres too,how could i not after watching him hit that wonder goal against Blackburn. Me and my son were in the anfield rd end,less than 100 ft away when he done the unbelievable and for a moment the world seemed to stop spinning,pure poetry in motion! He broke our hearts,much the same as micky owen,two traitors to the cause! May their balls drop off in the shower! LOL
ReplyDeleteEveryone keeps using the word 'terraces'.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm a red plastic seat thug, and I don't really give a flying one. :)
I was a big fan of him, I believe that he is a good player even now and to be honest if Torres could give us something extra to win trophies I would not have a real problem to have him back. But realistic now, the Torres era is over for Liverpool and we need some fresh faces. We don't need Torres, we need players of his quality (and of course much cheeper than his 50.000.000 pounds megatransfer to Chelski). ;)
ReplyDeleteHe had about as much influence on those Finals as John Terry.....
ReplyDeleteThe train now leaving Platform 3......
ReplyDeleteIt's the trade-off, isn't it. Some players just want the medals, some want the hero worship.
ReplyDeleteSteve Bull and Matt Le Tissier will look back on their respective careers with as much fondness as Torres, I would imagine. And they did it through a genuine love of the teams they played for.
And I bet you lot still love Kerry Dixon even though he doesn't have much of a trophy cabinet???
ALso just noticed its being reported Coates is heading back to nacional on loan for the rest of the season
ReplyDeleteWell how's the progress with that company that does the investigations?
ReplyDeleteto be fair rodgers signings are no more successful than KK's was. :If sturridge is a success for Br then Suarez was for KK. The problem as you correctly highlight is that when fans suggest big name signings the usual answer is we dont have the funds to compete with the big clubs but over the last 2-3 years we have probably spent 200 million on players many of whom had little impact on the clubs fortunes. So buying bit part players and then loaning them abroad makes little sense.
ReplyDeletetoday we are 4th and we should be showing ambitions to go for mata but all the talks are of Salah whom is not proven in the EPL.With Mata automatically we add a world class player who scores goals and creates chances. This one signing would have the same effect on the confidence of the players as ozil did for arsenal.
IMO opinion Rodgers knows he stuffed up in the summer and that is why he is being overly cautious this window. Maybe he's swung too far the other direction but we will see by the end of the window. Salah is a good player no doubt.
ReplyDeleteExactly and Rodgers being a young up and coming manager is part of the process. I think FSG will be good for the long term future of the club. Expect a few mistakes from Rodgers and a few mistakes from young players until tey mature and realise their potential.
ReplyDeleteIt's gonna be tough if we don't get CL this year because it will be the end of Suarez. He's a guy you can build a team around a true superstar they don't come along very often. I agree with you Jaimie that Rodgers stuffed up. We need players who can play in the first team. Better to punt on youth this coming summer after we have already qualified for the CL.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but unfortunately Mata is not available to us. Chelsea have said they will not sell to a EPL team end of story. The only EPL team that would have a chance at Mata would be Man U as part of a Rooney deal. Like that is going to happen hahaha
ReplyDeleteMan city and Chelsea have over priced every player. 10ml are worth 25ml and the 25ml players are 50+ml. So it's hard to go out and buy that quality world class player to make an instant impact when we don't have money to lash out at these sort of players. Yes BR has brought in some flops and I do agree he should have combined the 7ml duds and brought in some badely neede quality.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool do not have any players that can come of the bench and make a difference. Sterling wastes so many goal scoring chances but everyone keeps saying he needs time to develope. But have a look at all these other world class players who are still in there teens making impacks at other world class clubs.
I couldn't disagree with you more I am afraid. Let me answer each point you make:
ReplyDelete1 Unhealthy competition in defensive positions. Yet you drum on about how in order to challenge the Club needs to players in each position. Surely this is what the Club is doing. I would say Rodgers has created healthy competition.
2 Ilori Transfer a waste of money. I disagree. You will only know this once the player is sold. He could be sold eventually for twice that, who knows. Only till that moment will his transfer be a waste of finances.
3 Was Ilori purchase an essential purchase. No never. We fans want results we want to win the next game. But managing a club is about the long term, it about the future. Modern football ( all proffesional sport) is about results and finances. He is an investment, at 20 it could be 3 years before he ready for consistent first team action. If the Club has ambition, and I would say his purchase is proof of long term ambitious planning, then the club needs to buy players like Ilori: Prized, young, potential talent. This was and is an FSG purchase. This would have made the money men happy. Wealthy people invest, they take risks, this is what they do best. They don't look short term, narrow focus. They see potential, opportunities and they factor in risk.
4 If he goes to Granada and performs, we could keep him or sell him for what we paid for him. If he really shows potential he could come back to the Club, find himself on the bench, making the odd Cup, League and maybe even Champions League team...see the Club is planning ambitiously for Champions League, and for that you need huge squad depth. If he does work out at Granada, what has the club lost...4 million maybe? But surely worth the risk.
5 Buy one player for 20 million rather than 4. Sorry I don't see the logic. The risk, having all your eggs in one basket is just too high. You can rather buy 3 players with potential, if one comes off great! He could then be worth double. The other 2 duds don't work out, and lose half their value. You still haven't lost a cent. If your 20 million man, gets injured or turns out to be a dud then you lose 10 million. The risks are far far greater. All purchases have risk and reward. Reward would be financial and contributing to the team The difference in risk between 20 million and 7 million, isnt that much difference. In that case I would rather buy 3 x 7 million players.
6 Personally I think Rodgers would love to buy more expensive players with less risk. Logic says that would make his job easier. But his hands are tied by the money men of FSG. Their philosophy, is buy young, buy lots, buy with potential, a revolving player policy until the diamonds are unearthed.
If I had to write a headline for this article it would be: Liverpool sends out young talent to develop for the future. Yet further proof that transfer strategy is working.
Quote from Rogers ;
ReplyDelete"Centre-halves are so hard to find. You look at some teams and they
have ageing centre-halves because it is a struggle to get a really good
one.
"We were fortunate in that two became available, one that we had been
tracking for a year in Tiago Ilori, a young talent but who can be a big
talent.
"He is 6' 3", super quick, power, can jump, and he just needs to adapt
to the pace and physicality of the Premier League. He is one for the
future, but he can be a really big talent.
"Sakho is 23 but he is an experienced player. He has senior
international caps and looks an absolute monster in training. He is one
who is ready for now and that is what we want.
We had a chance to do that and protect the club for maybe the next ten years and that is what we have done."
How can planning ahead be wasting money? A manager should always be taking a two pronged aproach. Work on the now and the future. Unfortunately our main targets for the now we could not get Mhkitarian, Willian, Costa etc That doesn't mean that those players bought for the future are a waste.
They filed subpoenas last week for all info relating to the stalker's twitter/wordpress accounts. Now, just have to wait for those two companies to respond. Usually takes a month or two as they have to contact the troll concerned and give him a chance to file a court order to stop them revealing his details. The net is closing :-)
ReplyDeleteGreat points, Dion. Although I disagree with much of it (as you do with my arguments) I definitely see your reasoning.
ReplyDeleteAs far as Llori and Alberto and Borini are concerned i would say no doubt that they were bought for the future and i believe they will prove to be shrewd buys.
ReplyDeleteAspas may have been a bad buy as was Allen i suppose it will be interesting to see how much the club can recoup.
This season was a year to which most thought would be for rebuilding and our performances have led many to forget that.
Though in a few cases i wonder about Rodgers who earlier showed faith in the youngsters as to whether he has lost a bit of guts along the way.
One other consideration may be also be that this transfer committee agreed to players Rodgers may not have wanted which makes for a dilemma.
Perhaps the term misused funds rather than waste would represent what you are saying a little better?
ReplyDeleteGoodness gravy. You can't tell me you haven't seen Aliens a million times like the rest of us saddos. What are you six?
ReplyDeleteI was very excited about Lovren when we were linked with him and would have loved Erikson but Wanyama has had very mixed reports.
ReplyDeleteFuckin' A ;-)
ReplyDeletei would have thought if mata wants to come to liverpool then could chelsea stop him?
ReplyDeleteRodgers said a few months ago that the actual fee was nowhere near what was reported. He also said all along the plan was to integrate Illori for 6 months before sending him out on loan for game time so he would be ready for next season to make an impact. This all makes sense: how many 20 year olds are playing first team in the premier league?
ReplyDeleteAlso you question why we needed him with four senior cbs. well skrtl 29 agger 29 toure 32. Thats why we needed a younger one. You have posted about the lack of strikers from the academy "making it". Well there's been even fewer center backs!
This all hinges on money. If the fee for Illori is less than a million or even a free signing into the academy then we're not talking about this, no one cares and he's just another young player going on loan to gain some first team experience somewhere else. It all boils down to this question: does it make sense to spend significant sums of money on players who are not ready for first team action and will need to develop over time to prove themselves? It's the same question we could ask about Alberto.
ReplyDeleteI don't think spending money on young players is a "waste". The reality is that quality CBs cost plenty. You don't get a good PL CB, at least with the skills we'd require at Liverpool, for under 10 million. Sakho cost quite a bit more than this. So you have a choice: only buy proven players and pay the cost or spend money on unproven players and hope they develop. The proof only comes when that young player either comes good or fails to ever make the first team and is shipped out. So I think it's far too early to call Illori a "waste of money". He might have a great second half of the season at Granada, establish himself there and come back to Liverpool with the level required to take a regular spot on the bench as a backup CB. But of course if that never happens then it's absolutely a waste. It all depends on what happens in the future so I'm not sure it's entirely sensible to be coming to conclusions right now.
JK himself says that the chance of a young player coming through the ranks at Liverpool is slim, but is that really the case with Rodgers? He's only been in charge for a year and a half, so how can we judge his ability to pick young players? Sterling has been brilliant and gotten plenty of chances. Flanagan is looking like he could be a regular if he stays fit. If anything a young player is more likely to succeed under Rodgers and the failure of young players brought in or discarded by other managers is quite irrelevant. You can't say that Illori has no chance because some academy players who started here when Rafa was in charges are not making it. What has a Rafa youth signing got to do with Rodgers?
The other half of this argument hinges on the money being spent on players like Alberto and Illori meaning we have less funds available for proper first team players. Now maybe that's the case but it's pure speculation. The evidence suggests that Liverpool are willing to spend good money on good players but not that many good players are available, affordable and want to come play with us. We lined up 20 million quid bids in the summer so obviously the money was available. We're about to spend 10 million or more on Salah, so the idea that funds have been sucked up by these purchases of young players doesn't have much substance. I think the club is willing to spend but Rodgers, as much as anyone else, is being conservative and careful. He's OK to spend smaller amounts on lesser players but those big signings are proving more elusive.
This is where I get confused by some of JKs logic. On the one hand he bemoans the lack of success of Liverpool youngsters, but this way of doing things is clearly different. Spending money on Illori and Alberto when clearly neither of them are regular first team players is unusual, but is it wrong? If the club has a long history of never seeing young talent come through then maybe this is the new way forward. Spend a little more on the young players with potential to ensure they have the quality to ultimately contribute. This is a change of direction and if it works it will be a master stroke. It's a bit more in line with the way Wenger has been building his teams all these years. Plenty of times we've seen Wenger spend modest but not insignificant sums of money on young players who don't have an instant impact on the first team. They are afforded time to grow and become mature players and then they turn out to be brilliant players of the highest standard. Given that we've had so little success with young players coming through but we have a manager who is willing to give them a chance if they are good enough it seems to me that it might just be the right approach to take.
ReplyDelete