Liverpool boss Brendan Rodgers scrapped the 352 formation for yesterday's Premier League game with Fulham, and the change immediately paid dividends, with the team keeping its first clean sheet since September 1st. After the game, Reds boss John W. Henry was full of praise for the team, but a closer look at his comments (arguably) reveals a veiled criticism of Rodgers' use of 352.
Posting his thoughts on Twitter last night, Henry praised Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge as 'extraordinary fun to watch, and the 'most dangerous tandem in football', but he also clearly criticised what he perceives to be the overly defensive nature of 352. Henry noted:
"Huge difference with LFC playing offensively with a lead rather than defensively. Brendan making great adjustments.
The only real 'adjustment' Rodgers made for the game was to ditch the 352 formation, which Henry clearly perceives as being too defensive.
I don't see what else Henry could be referring to here. What other 'great adjustments' did Rodgers make for the Fulham game?
None, as far as I can see.
The only logical conclusion is that Henry is not a fan of 352, which (IMO) shows that he isn't as ignorant about football as many seem to think :-)
On a related note - what a superb weekend of results for Liverpool. Man City and Spurs lose; Chelsea held to a draw, and Arsenal also lose (albeit to Man Utd), to keep the gap at the top to only two points.
Now, another excruciatingly tedious international break. Urgh.
Author: Jaimie K
Posting his thoughts on Twitter last night, Henry praised Luis Suarez and Daniel Sturridge as 'extraordinary fun to watch, and the 'most dangerous tandem in football', but he also clearly criticised what he perceives to be the overly defensive nature of 352. Henry noted:
"Huge difference with LFC playing offensively with a lead rather than defensively. Brendan making great adjustments.
The only real 'adjustment' Rodgers made for the game was to ditch the 352 formation, which Henry clearly perceives as being too defensive.
I don't see what else Henry could be referring to here. What other 'great adjustments' did Rodgers make for the Fulham game?
None, as far as I can see.
The only logical conclusion is that Henry is not a fan of 352, which (IMO) shows that he isn't as ignorant about football as many seem to think :-)
On a related note - what a superb weekend of results for Liverpool. Man City and Spurs lose; Chelsea held to a draw, and Arsenal also lose (albeit to Man Utd), to keep the gap at the top to only two points.
Now, another excruciatingly tedious international break. Urgh.
Author: Jaimie K
I really hope that Henry was just trying to say something nice about Rodgers and not actually talking football. After all, he wouldn't have the slightest clue anyway ...
ReplyDeleteHe was referring to previous managers Jamie Clueless.
ReplyDeleteHow would you know?
ReplyDeleteI'd say he knows more about it you or I do. Why? He's playing with 500 million quid. You think FSG would have someone in charge of that who has no knowledge of football? Sure he actually may have known little before they took on LFC but there's no way in hell that's the case now.
ReplyDeletewe were never in the lead at arsenal so he could not be referring to that game.
ReplyDeleteur a fucking wanker jammie.
ReplyDeleteWere a couple of adjustments besides the formations, namely coutinho starting, johnson and enrique returning, Allen getting some field time /gerrard getting subbed off early.
ReplyDeleteOn the results side, very encouraging (terrible for my wagers this weekend). Tottenham, Chelsea,Everton, and Man City have demonstrated that while they may have great squads, they still have their weaknesses, and are a) beatable, not only by LIverpool but the rest as well. Man U have the easiest fixture till Jan - but can still drop points, the rest will drop points to each other, maybe some of the small teams. With a win at Everton, and next few games, Liverpool can climb to first - its not too inconceivalbe, last years top 5 (arsenal excluded) arent playing their best, plus they have CL, EL and cup fixtures in between.
Now for the players to keep their eyes on the prize, believe its possible, and play accordingly.
Maybe Henry was referring to the fact that at the start of the season, when we would take a 1-0 lead we would go to a defensive mindset and sit back and invite the opposition onto us..... remember our opening three 1-0 victories? I don't think Henry is talking about formations.. rather the attitude and mindset the players are now showing which of course Rogers must take part of the credit.
ReplyDeleteIMO
ReplyDeleteRodgers meant once we went 1-0 up we kept playing offensively than defending a 1-0
arsenal was a tough game too watch but I think Johnson and Enrique were a huge miss if we can keep the first choice players fit we are as good as anybody coutinho back is a big bonus but we need quality back up in January
ReplyDeleteIf anything, I thought that it was more to do with the fact that we continued to search for goals when we were ahead, when on pretty much every other occasion this season, tactically we've played a deep and tight game and tried to hit the opposition on the counter.
ReplyDeleteGerard was also let loose a little more like the West Brom game as opposed to the Arsenal game. This was also a little different. Can great adjustments mean very good adjustments rather than great large? In that case any small adjustment can be great, as oxymoronic as that is. Like I said on the other thread Fulham being terrible helped us to better defensively and offensively. We were definitely more attacking but but than the West Brom game?
ReplyDeletetbf we did play well on pretty much every other game we started with a 253, before for some unknown reason deciding to withdraw and concede possession after half time each time.
ReplyDeletePlaying like that we are as good as anybody else in the league though. Of the expected title challengers, only Arsenal and City have shown an ability to put up equally impressive team performances on more than a couple of occasions so far this season.
I think too much is made of the formations sometimes. The improvements could easily be down to getting players back from injury and being at home and playing against a much weaker team.
ReplyDeleteAlso BR could have felt more confident playing a 442 once he had 4 midfielders worth picking due to Conthino coming back. At least when you play a 352 and you have a lack of midfield quality you only have to find 3 players. LFC badly need to bring in some quality in the midfield.
Are you forgetting the Suarez factor, which was absent in those 3 games.
ReplyDeleteI doubt very much an experienced Businessman like JH would publically try to undermine the Manager in public. Nope nothing to it.
ReplyDeleteHis PR told him(Henry) that the public opinion is that 5 3 2 should be droped and that fans think so too, and he is making his move.
ReplyDeleteBR moves.
His PR told him(Henry) that the public opinion is that 5 3 2 should be droped and that fans think so too, and he is making his move.
ReplyDeleteBR moves.
nonsense
ReplyDeleteJaimie, you are looking way too far into it.
ReplyDeleteI don't even think Henry would realise the pros and cons of each formation anyway. And the 3-5-2 formation had nothing to do with how we took the foot off the pedal. It simply came down to mentality.
ReplyDeleteMy first thought, but maybe he heard public opinion. he wants to be involved... but he said it a way that you cant say that is what he meant so he wont be held responsible and still puts pressure on nBR to change the formation..
ReplyDeleteJust forwarding public opinion. And probably agrees with it- though maybe for the wrong reasons...
ReplyDeleteBut, not a bad week for Liverpool. 4-0 win, City lost, Arsenal lost, Spurs lost. The only downer is Utd won. A Utd/Arsenal draw would have made it a PERFECT week.
ReplyDeleteEnough of theese almost perfec weeks, and you have a perfect campaign..
ReplyDeleteHe was never even interested in football before he bought LFC, was he? Comes from a country where football is playing fifth fiddle to American Football, basketball, baseball, and hockey ... he was surely not growing up following football anywhere near the level a normal European kid would ... granted though, he is not as ignorant as to call us the Liverpool Reds franchise, but still ...
ReplyDeleteMaybe put it the other way round ... I've started watching and enjoying American Football when I was 26. I'm 31 now and still nowhere near educated enough to be able to enter any deeper discussion about tactics, plays or rules in that sport.
I reckon that Henry will not even know some of the less prominent football rules like no offside after a throw-in or that a ball can't be touched by a defender inside the box after a goal kick ...
how much he invested in us?
ReplyDeleteHe is bussunesman who will surely learn something about his new, interesting bussiness.
Plus, how much fottball knowledge you need fot that sentence..
ReplyDeleteTell me :)
ReplyDeleteThing is: football can be discussed at very different levels of sophistication. You can go about it as simple as saying that it is 'no coincidence' that switching to four at the back ensured the clean sheet, therefore totally ignoring the lack of quality of the opposition, the change of personnel at the centre back slots, overall tactical approach, impact of the run of play, etc ... and get away with it ;)
I'm friends with some former Bundesliga players and watched quite a bit of football together with them. And when they started discussing football, it was most certainly on a level you wouldn't get from, say, tv pundits, because the audience would not understand most of it ... like very detailed in-depth tactical analysis of positioning play when defending corners, pro and cons of different approaches of taking free kicks and so forth ...
My stance on this is, that in England people (fans and actually managers as well) don't really care for these tactical details as much as people do elsewhere (Italy, Spain, Germany ...). It kind of shows in the moderate success the English team has had over the years. You would expect a lot better from a nation that has so many people playing football ...
I read this more as a criticism of previous managers, really. And just a statement of fact: it was great to see us going for a kill.
ReplyDeletexJust forwarding public opinion. And probably agrees with it- though maybe for the wrong reasons...
ReplyDeletey but maybe he heard public opinion. he wants to be involved... but he said it a way that you cant say that is what he meant so he wont be held responsible and still puts pressure on nBR to change the formation..
ReplyDeleteAgree. Mr. Henry may be a quick study, but at this stage of his development he probably isn't quite sure what 3-5-2 even means. Were simpy outrun and outhustled by a better Arsenal mid-field...Arsenal is in first in the table for a reason...really five reasons...end of story
ReplyDeletePffft..."which Henry perceives as too defensive..." is a stretch of his perceptive ability, but he knows that 8 guys back isn't as offensive as 6 guys back.
ReplyDeleteHe's speaking in generalities... there's nothing specific in the quote so I won't think too much into it.
ReplyDeleteYou are really, really hard to understand. Like a scene from Little Britain, yeah but no but yeah.
ReplyDeleteso i ve been told...
ReplyDeletemusic for my ears..
ReplyDeleteOne player that is catching the eye and would make a huge difference to our midfield is Pogba of Juve. Looks a beast of a player.
ReplyDeleteLFC are not the real deal yet but they are certainly well on their way. I would hate to put my money on the outcome if we went into a game with such an attacking formation had we been playing Barca or indeed someone in the Premier League who could give them a run for their money, even though I believe attack is the best defence. On another note it is clear to me that some LFC supporters are not falling into the trap anymore of following opposition pundits who have a hidden agenda and are trying to undermine LFC by castigating Suarez, they have realised the unrelenting talent he brings to the team. Let the racists and cheats at ManU et al look at their own squad before we assist them "Sticking the Boot" in because they are unable to cope with his sheer brilliance.
ReplyDeleteAs others have said, I think this refers more to our inability ealier in the season to dominate games once we had taken the lead and not 3-5-2.
ReplyDeleteThe best part about this season is that it is so competitive. Every week, teams are hoping others drop points. Two weeks ago, when we beat WBA, others did well also. Last week, we are the one to drop point. This week we are the sole winner! This is perhaps the best week so far!
ReplyDeleteWhether it's 352, 433 or 442, which the formation on against Fulham was really a cross between 433 and 442, shows how flexible and versatile we are, which is a sign of the very good sides. We are showing that we are in fact a very good side and on paper, arguably better than the likes on Man U.
ReplyDeleteWe weren't playing with 532 though, we were playing with 352. Very similar, but not the same
ReplyDeleteSeriously? This is the man that brought in the statistics system for his Boston Red Sox side. He comes across as being a student and wanting to learn as much as he can about the sports he invests in.
ReplyDeleteNo
ReplyDeleteWe should not read too much into Henry's comments and the win over Fulham. I am thrilled we won and bounced back from a loss and more importantly, didn't drop points against a less team like we did repeatedly in the last five years.
ReplyDeleteThat said, we still need to do effective business in January to shore up midfield. Let's hope BR and FSG don't let up and focus on the remaining needs.
Jaimie, i think you've misunderstood what he has said completely.. Henry was talking about Liverpool being offensive whilst having a lead, rather than sitting back and defending..
ReplyDeleteAssalammualaikum....BERITA BAIK buat peminat Liverpool FC di seluruh Malaysia.Dapatkan info2 menarik mengenai kelab LFC. Isu2 perpindahan aktiviti perlawanan....MUDAH SHJ,SILA LIKE.Kami akan sediakan banyak lg info2 yg anda inginkan.Mohon jasa baik,tolonglah promosikan skali FB ini Ultras Reds Livfc.
ReplyDeleteTERIMA KASIH.
Dude, Henry is an American that grew up with baseball. It's not as simple as you think it is.
ReplyDeleteThe thing that troubles me most here is Jamie's use of September 1st. Its bad enough that I see film trailers saying the date as September one! We've lost enough to Americanisms alread, lets to keep to the British standard for date formats, which is 1st of September or 1st September.
ReplyDeleteThat aside, it does sound like Henry likes good, offense minded soccer ;-)
Jamie really taking the article of Henry totally out of context. We need to stop being negative and assume things. Henry is talking about overal performance of Rogers making adjustments to the Kenny age that was defensive. Pls Jamie let your articles be of substance & not fiction like you watched a scary movie. Enjoy the praise. In Rogers we trust. YNWA
ReplyDeleteI think Henry was referring to the 1-0 wins in the past where Liverpool was switched off in the second half and not so much on the 3-5-2 formation. The Fulham game saw Liverpool continuous attach even after 4-0 up.
ReplyDeleteBut you fail to see that when talking football Henry surrounds himself with clever people he is very intelligent and i have no doubt his knowledge would surprise you.
ReplyDeleteI wish Rodgers bloomin announced that he was gonna change to a back 4, so inconsiderate! Completely messed up my fantasy football team as I removed Mignolet from goal! On a serious note, who knows whether Henry was having a slight dig, in all honesty the most important thing is that we have a manager that recognises when something isn't working and then acts accordingly by changing things. Just hope this international break doesn't break our stride.
ReplyDeleteLFC has 7 matches in Dec ...way too much to handle. 15,26 and 29 Dec (Tottenham, ManC & Chelsea resp.) At end of the month I pray & hope LFC would survive at least top 3, as we don't have depth in squad and I hope everyone stays fit.Table would drastically change during this coming month.
ReplyDeleteAs usual john I on he ball but he lad was played too much to soon due to lack of quality in the squad and he did us proud.
ReplyDeleteHARRY WILSON THE ONLY TRUE PROSPECT
ReplyDeleteI reckon Liverpool should go for Ramirez from Saints instead...please
ReplyDeleteThe lad is only 18 he wouldn't of played last year if we had the same team as we do now yea I agree england shouldn't of picked him so early on but I can't fault rodgers he gave him play time and then dropped him second half of the season to stop the hype surrounding him which he stated loads of times that we shouldn't hype him up like Walcott and that was the same with his wages demands and sterling himself said he wasn't asking for ridiculous amounts same time tho u can't let one of ur best youngster go to a rival for free yea ok he ain't getting in the team but where would he play we haven't been playing with wingers and he can't play at wing back so give the boy a chance once we have a bigger squad then he'll go out on loan there ain't no rush
ReplyDeleteHe's still only 18, what is Barnes on about? Most people don't even get a sniff of first team football at that age, I wouldn't be threatening him with the scrap heap just yet. He's performing the same role as Gnabry at Arsenal presently, coming on as an impact sub to stretch the game with his pace when most people on the pitch have played 80 minutes... I don't think there's any concern with how he's doing atm. That said, a loan deal at January and some real game time would be fantastic for him!
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with praising players/the team when they earn it. The problem with Liverpool's praise at times is that it goes unduly overboard prematurely and is totally blinkered, leaving ppl open to receive eggs on their faces.
ReplyDeletei.e. Suarez has earned the right to be praised as one of the top players in the world. Sturridge has earned the right to be praised as one of the top forwards in the league.
Sterling has shown promise, but that was about it - there is no way he should have been called up to the England squad at all as yet, never mind being called up on such a regular basis now.
In a recent survey football was only second to the NFL as a spectator sport in young Americans, and first in young Hispanic Americans.. one of the largest ethnic groups in the US...
ReplyDeleteCould he be talking about having agger back in the team, also could have been rodgers decision to start coutinhio. Just a couple of other things he could have been talking about. No jan molby quotes today. Thats a surpise.
ReplyDeleteHave to agree with the legend Barnes here. Sterling made a good show of himself in the first half of last season but was way over hyped from those decent performances. It's the British way, that doesn't happen in Spain, players like Carzola took a while to get into Spains squad where Sterling was rushed in my opinion. I know that there was an issue about him being eligible to play for another country so maybe that was the reason. Sterling is very good but also needs to keep working on himself. As a player like Ibe shows just as much potential.
ReplyDelete352 formation was only used due to the lack of defenders available. Jamie - i know you like to play Devil's Advocate but come on - let me see your intelligence shine through for one day of the year ;) (Now don't get all admin power hungry and block me). Johnson is a main pillar in our 442 formation. Without him, it does not work. We do not have enough talent to fill in for Johnson when he is out. We do need another right back as a matter of urgency.
ReplyDeleteWe are all guilty in this. What would we have said if he had let his contract run out last year and he signed for Spurs? He was over praised and promoted partly to get him to sign a new contract. But at least he is still with us and providing his development is properly managed from here on he still has a good chance of showing his true potential
ReplyDeletePart of the problem is the gradual decline in quality of the squad over the years, owing to mismanagement of finances ala Carrol & Downing. Sterling was a breath of fresh air, young with no confidence issues. We overplayed him to the point where he was clearly exhausted & form dropped. One could argue that BR had no choice.
ReplyDeleteAs for the big contract he earned, with an emphasis on earned. Downing was a 70k a week sub & Sterling kept him there for a while so pay him. I do agree it should've been less than 40k/ week. Maybe 10 k?
Promotion to the senior national team was silly, needs to graduate from U21s. Hey ho, these are mistakes which can be rectified. A few loan spells & a bit of tough love should keep his feet on the ground!
Moving forward, quality should never be compromised as it has been the last few years, in order facilitate the competitive edge. This for me is far more damaging than over praising!
I am beginning to feel that you might not be that keen on the 3 CB setup . I am sure that like me JH is an avid reader of your articles. But I think it's stretching a point to assume that's where he gets all of his footballing knowledge from although it would explain a lot:-)
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised more wasn't made of his international debut on this site.
ReplyDeleteIdeally, he would've been blooded into the squad/team later and more gradually but I guess needs must as Rodgers didn't have much faith in Downing earlier on for example and generally, our squad wasn't all that great, especially in the wing department and even now.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it BR's fault that Raheem doesn't work hard...if that is indeed true? Why isn't it Raheem's fault that Raheem doesn't work hard? Why does John Barnes seem to blame everybody except Raheem? Nobody seems to complain about Henderson's work rate. I can also hardly believe that the other players would tolerate laziness during training. I would think that problem...if indeed it exists...would be self-policing on the training pitch and in the locker room. Maybe the real truth is that Raheem ended up playing a lot last year because he was the best option BR had with last year's talent level. Maybe he isn't playing now because we have more talented players now. Maybe he should go back to the under 21s.
ReplyDeleteI agree, too much back patting, when we're still some distance off where we want to be, should shut up and go about our business quietly like we used to.
ReplyDeleteHe needs to go out on loan without a doubt.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
ReplyDeleteHenry doesn't even understand football. I take his comments to mean the overall team played better as far a spirit rather than tactically.
ReplyDeletethere were MANY changes not just the formation. like starting Agger instead of Kolo and Sakho. Coutinho also was back in the team. Be easy and believe son.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool played with 2 in the back against Fulham, Johnson and Cissohko spent most of the time in the opposition half!!!!
ReplyDeleteHenry's comment wasn't really talking about formations, it was more towards Liverpool's attitude in the game. At 1-0, they wanted to score another goal, at 2-0 they wanted to score another goal, at 3-0 they wanted to score another goal. This offensive mentality kept going until the ref blew the final whistle. A few of the games this season Liverpool sat back on a 1-0 or 2-0 lead.
ReplyDeleteJaimie you always have to make a non-story up just to get people to read your articles. I highly doubt he knows the difference between 3-5-2 and 4-3-3 etc. Maybe he is referring to the reign of Hodgson and Dalglish?! Why else would he say 'Brendan's making great adjustments'? He would hardly praise Rodgers for adjusting his own formations.
ReplyDeletei think he mean from last year .... I don´t think mr henry know about the system yet.
ReplyDeleteHe means not sitting back and defending a lead, hence his reference to 'lead' but instead, still attacking given our lead. Poor understanding on your part to know his interpretation
ReplyDeleteJaimie, you need to stop baiting people with bullshit headlines and articles. If you want to be a journalist, try writing something unique and insightful rather analysing Twitter posts and taking them completely out of context
ReplyDelete3-5-2,4-3-3 whatever is not important as long as we winning games-ynwa
ReplyDelete