Brendan Rodgers' bizarre decision to play FOUR centre-backs against Southampton is destined to go down as one of the biggest LFC management cock-ups in the club's modern history. In my view, it's right up there with Rafa Benitez playing Peter Crouch on the left-wing, and Gerard Houllier subbing Dietmar Hamann in the 2002 Champions League quarter-final. As nonsensical as the decision appears, is it possible there is method behind Rodgers' madness? Judging by his explanation, the answer is a big, fat NO.
I really don't wish to belabour the point, but Rodgers' reasoning needs to be examined.
When asked in his post-match press conference why he dropped Jose Enrique, and played four centre-backs, Rodgers explained:
"It was really what we had available. Glen Johnson is out injured, and Kelly is still trying to work up his fitness after having been out for a year.
"We’ve got to keep an eye on Jose Enrique’s knees, and if there’s an overload on that, it could put him out longer term, and obviously we have Cissokho out already.
"Mamadou and Kolo have played at fullback before, but obviously, you lose a bit of that offensive threat. Despite that, I think they did as well as they possible could".
With the greatest respect, these are lame, barely credible excuses:
* If Kelly is not fit enough to play, why even have him on the bench? Clearly, if a player is on the bench, it means he can play, and the only way Kelly is going to increase his match-fitness is by playing. Additionally, Kelly played a full 90 minutes for the U21s against Sunderland in midweek, which proves he is fit to play.
* Andre Wisdom was available, and could've played. Granted, he had a shaky game at times against Swansea City, but again, how is he going to improve if he doesn't get the chance to grow into the position. Additionally, much of the time, Wisdom has performed very well at right back, especially last season.
* If Jose Enrique's knees are such a problem, why has he started 20 of the last 21 games?! Rodgers didn't seem to concerned during pre-season either when he played the Spaniard in six of LFC's seven games, which basically makes it 26 starts in the last 28 games (all competitions). No, that doesn't wash at all.
* Rodgers even admits that he knew the team would 'lose a bit of offensive threat', yet he still went ahead with four centre-backs, and then waited until the 72nd minute to make an attacking change.
* I covered the Agger situation in a previous post, but it ties in again to this. After the game, Rodgers said: ""Agger had the problem with his side. We needed him to play, really. He hadn't trained all week & felt a bit of pain today". So, it appears that Rodgers decided to play a still-injured Agger, and did so despite the Dane not training for a whole week! Agger himself admitted after the game that he 'shouldn't have played'.
With the greatest respect to Rodgers, his reasoning is an insult to the intelligence of LFC fans.
After the game, Rodgers called the defending for the goal 'criminal' - he's right, but his team selection deserves the same label. When all is said and done, it's clear that the manager got it horribly wrong. He should just take it on the chin and accept it, and hopefully, this is the last we'll see of this ridiculous experiment.
Ultimately, however, I think fans - including myself - should cut Rodgers some slack over this. Yes, he made a huge mistake, but he's also responsible for a sustained period of superb league form this year, which took LFC to the top of the table. He's bound to make errors every now and again (and for those, he should be questioned), but this is only minor setback on a very positive upward curve for LFC.
Moving forward, the best way to respond to this defeat is to beat Man United on Wednesday, and I for one can't wait for the game.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
I really don't wish to belabour the point, but Rodgers' reasoning needs to be examined.
When asked in his post-match press conference why he dropped Jose Enrique, and played four centre-backs, Rodgers explained:
"It was really what we had available. Glen Johnson is out injured, and Kelly is still trying to work up his fitness after having been out for a year.
"We’ve got to keep an eye on Jose Enrique’s knees, and if there’s an overload on that, it could put him out longer term, and obviously we have Cissokho out already.
"Mamadou and Kolo have played at fullback before, but obviously, you lose a bit of that offensive threat. Despite that, I think they did as well as they possible could".
With the greatest respect, these are lame, barely credible excuses:
* If Kelly is not fit enough to play, why even have him on the bench? Clearly, if a player is on the bench, it means he can play, and the only way Kelly is going to increase his match-fitness is by playing. Additionally, Kelly played a full 90 minutes for the U21s against Sunderland in midweek, which proves he is fit to play.
* Andre Wisdom was available, and could've played. Granted, he had a shaky game at times against Swansea City, but again, how is he going to improve if he doesn't get the chance to grow into the position. Additionally, much of the time, Wisdom has performed very well at right back, especially last season.
* If Jose Enrique's knees are such a problem, why has he started 20 of the last 21 games?! Rodgers didn't seem to concerned during pre-season either when he played the Spaniard in six of LFC's seven games, which basically makes it 26 starts in the last 28 games (all competitions). No, that doesn't wash at all.
* Rodgers even admits that he knew the team would 'lose a bit of offensive threat', yet he still went ahead with four centre-backs, and then waited until the 72nd minute to make an attacking change.
* I covered the Agger situation in a previous post, but it ties in again to this. After the game, Rodgers said: ""Agger had the problem with his side. We needed him to play, really. He hadn't trained all week & felt a bit of pain today". So, it appears that Rodgers decided to play a still-injured Agger, and did so despite the Dane not training for a whole week! Agger himself admitted after the game that he 'shouldn't have played'.
With the greatest respect to Rodgers, his reasoning is an insult to the intelligence of LFC fans.
After the game, Rodgers called the defending for the goal 'criminal' - he's right, but his team selection deserves the same label. When all is said and done, it's clear that the manager got it horribly wrong. He should just take it on the chin and accept it, and hopefully, this is the last we'll see of this ridiculous experiment.
Ultimately, however, I think fans - including myself - should cut Rodgers some slack over this. Yes, he made a huge mistake, but he's also responsible for a sustained period of superb league form this year, which took LFC to the top of the table. He's bound to make errors every now and again (and for those, he should be questioned), but this is only minor setback on a very positive upward curve for LFC.
Moving forward, the best way to respond to this defeat is to beat Man United on Wednesday, and I for one can't wait for the game.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Harsh to put the blame entirely on Rodgers. Sakho has played left back in the past, and Toure right back. Playing youngsters such as Wisdom and Kelly and having that backfire would've provoked a reaction from the fans. Sterling had a great chance to equalise at the end of the game (one on one with the opposition keeper), but blew it with an abysmal first touch, and that is generally down to experience. The fact is, the entire team underperformed. Rodgers maybe made the wrong team selection, but its all very easy to criticise in hindsight. The players also should accept some responsibility for the poor performance.
ReplyDeleteThey are not natural full backs and when you one, you should play them. Like for like.
ReplyDeleteBy the sound of things (and from the outside looking in), Kelly was in a better state to play than Agger.
ReplyDeleteI say bugger the cups if the squad is not deep enough to cover a few injuries then why stretch it with cups.
ReplyDeleteThe main target for the team should be C.L qualification and if Rodgers has so little faith in his depth Wisdom Kelly etc why should they be concentrating on cups.
I dont think we can get away with Man U this time...Honestly from beginning of this season all our matches were abit of lucky here and there. BR said he need player can play on few diff position but non of them is really shine or just doing decent only. Does that enuf for retain at top 4? Coming at Nov fixture all seem winnable but my question is how many point we can get from it? From pre-season till now we just keep shuffling our player is a good sign or not?
ReplyDeletePositive thing is 1st five match we were at objective zone. Coming next 5 is vital to determine our realistic
When did crouch play on the left wing?
ReplyDeleteAgainst Reading I think
ReplyDeleteThe manager AND the players need to shape up after that debacle. Rodgers' team selection & deployment of players was poor. The now infamous 4 centre backs, an unfit Agger, a not good enough Aspas & a too deep Gerrard. Added to that, many of our players played really badly & let themselves & the fans down. They should have been able to beat Southampton at Anfield despite Brendan's inept managerial decision. I hope Suarez coming back lifts our game because Saturday was awful.
ReplyDeleteI agree the team selection was criminal. Toure never ventured forward till towards the end of the first half. The lack of forward venturing from our fullbacks meant we couldn't keep it compact up front and we were extremely short of options. The amount of space we afforded Southampton allowed them to ping the ball right back at us.
ReplyDeleteThe official website called our loss surprising. I didn't think so in the least. I was actually anticipating it. The writing was on the wall in the aftermath of Ashley Williams' foul on Coutinho. We failed to recover against that and Aspas playing in the middle proved to be an equally poor tactical decision.
I believe the idea was to pack our attack with Aspas in support of Sturridge, but the lack of adventure from Toure meant Henderson had to commit to our half, meaning the right side of our attack was empty, leading to Sturridge drifting out wide and Aspas getting swamped. Henderson should have been given the trequartista role which I hope he will be with Suarez returning.
rodgers is foolish.he should just play toure/skertel,then kelly and enrique.wisdom is good too but he must be told not to always pass the ball back to the keeper.we must buy another defensive midfielder,then another creative number 10 becoz once coutinho gets injured we are doomed.i say we go for momo diame for defensive midfielder and then try for mata or reus
ReplyDeleteDecember 2007. 3-1 away defeat to Reading. Crouch on the left-wing; Voronin on the right-wing (!) I wrote about it at the time:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.liverpool-kop.com/2007/12/rafa-defeatist-self-destructs-against.html
We (Liverpool supporters) are missing the bigger picture here as we try to explain yesterday’s debacle, we simply have too many average players, most notably in midfield, Gerrard is far from his normal self and Lucas quite simply is not good enough to play for Liverpool, certainly not a Liverpool that want to compete at the highest level, Henderson is laboured with a big price tag but this does not belie the fact that he isn't good enough either.
ReplyDeleteWe were linked with a host of quality midfielders during the summer but for one reason or another they decided not to join, Eriksen at £11m looks like a bargain, we have enough defenders when fit to field a strong back four and with Suarez back we have a strong attacking formation, our problem clearly lies in midfield, both defensively and offensively and sadly with the players we have this isn't going to change.
I'm not doubting their commitment to the club but the longer we persist to ignore the obvious the further we will get from the top 4, the fixtures we were handed couldn't have been kinder and we need to have the points (like those dropped yesterday) in the bank before we play the top teams home and away (yes I know we beat utd) but I fear for this team as the season settles down and others find their form...
Why don't we also focus on how easy it was for the Saints to press to get the ball. I mean we lost the ball time and again in our own half.
ReplyDeleteThat shouldn't have been a surprise for anyone. All in all, a very weak performance from a very often over rated squad.
Soon as I seen no Enrique, I thought Ahh! it was good while it lasted, you don't leave out one of the reasons why we where top this season, just to keep everyone happy, as the manager you have to be ruthless and only allow new players into the team when some one loses a bit of form and then you give them the chance, you don't break up a winning formula, he realises that now, he should have been brave and simply played Alberto in the position he was meant to replace Courtinho.
ReplyDeleteIncredible but I agree with you. We paid a fortune for 2 centre back on deadline day instead or reinforcing our attack and then he comes out and says that we did not have a player to replace agger.
ReplyDeleteHis comments about Jose are a lie and a workaround for his blatantly obvious mistake. Just like the previous Saints game when Rodgers picked an injured Allen over in form Henderson, he made an absolute howler and doesn't admit it. Mistakes or decisions that are made during the game that cost us are fine but Rodgers lost us the game before the ball was even kicked.
ReplyDeleteI was so annoyed by the team selection because I didn't expect it from someone like Rodgers. Top of the league with a perfect opportunity to keep our momentum going, and it's thrown away. And for sure, Skrtel will be made the scapegoat, Aspas too.
Also, we had no response to their pressing game nor did we effectively press ourselves. If not for Mignolet we could of been two or three down, don't expect much at Old Trafford.
Brendan Rodgers should have gone for a 3-4-3, imo.
ReplyDeleteGK// Mignolet
CB// Skrtel/Toure/Sakho
WB// Henderson/Enrique
DM// Lucas
AM// Gerrard
WF// Aspas/Moses
CF// Sturridge
Bench// Jones/Kelly/Agger/Ilori/Alberto/Sterling/Ibe
----------------Mignolet-------------------
---------Skrtel-Toure-Sakho-----------
------------------Lucas--------------------
----Hendo-----------------Enrique-----
-----------------Gerrard-----------------
-------Aspas--------------Moses-------
----------------Sturridge----------------
I'm not 100 Percent maybe 99 percent but I think BR knows more about his football side than any supporter out there.i mean he his the manger of the Liverpool fc isn't he or am I wrong and his just one of those try hard supporters who think they now it all??
ReplyDeleteI think I'll praise Artur Boruc here, that guy did make some quality saves whenever called upon and was one of the main reasons that kept us out of the scoring sheet. Moses was selfish and could've passed to Aspas rather than taking the shot himself from a tough angle and same goes for Sturridge when he could've passed it to four red players inside the box.
ReplyDeleteWe had an off day with a lot of wrong decisions being made, I think we will come back strong in next game.
Lucas will be murdered in your formation.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at BR's comments on a sequential basis they show an alarming pattern. He totally contradicts himself when thing go wrong ,and seems to believe his utterances. He then goes on to smear individuals with innuendo. Any basic Management book tell you one thing ....bollockings should be done in private .
ReplyDeleteIs he delusional or does he think we are all blind AND stupid. Good media training will never cover his lack of tactical nous or picking the right player to buy-Coutnho and Sturridge yes BUT Joe Allen ,Aspas and Moses ?
You buy Sakho so you have to play him as this is why he left PSG....as a defender not a left back when Agger admits he wasn't fit and BR confirms he hasn't trained all week, poor management and poor judgement.
No wonder Suarez wants out, he is world class in a team of mostly second raters/kids.
Another change coming if BR's grand future fails to materialise. The USA contingent haven't shown any unhappiness yet they are still busy culling the executive team so that IA has the only say ....their say by remote control?
They are also still following Billy Beane (who said in the Times two Sat, ago that Moneyball was out of date and that now it is all about bringing through kids and cutting the bottom 10% of your squad each year ) but I bet they do if we don't make the CL next year.
Any takers on a small wager.....Everton will finish above us this year ....AGAIN?
"Rodgers maybe made the wrong team selection, but its all very easy to criticise in hindsight" Hardly anyone in football would support the idea of playing four centre backs.It's not fans being clever clogs after the result.
ReplyDelete"The players also should accept some responsibility for the poor performance" I agree but it's our mangers job the put a team that gives us the best possible chance to get a win.Selecting players out of position doesn't help.
the bottom line is Liverpool should be beating teams like Southampton at home...no ifs or buts..where are all these versatile players we have bought...rogers bangs on about wanting players who can perform in a variety of positions but the reality is the players he buys are very specific in the role they play...aspas for me can only play behind a main striker in a 442 formation in fact i think alberto and tino can only perform well in that role...allen is a very specific midfielder which suits a very specific system....hardly mr versatile...sturridge no matter what you think is an out and out center forward.....borini is just out and out below average no matter where he end up...
ReplyDeleterogers is entirely to blame...i feel sorry for sako ..first of all being thrown in at Swansea then be pushed out to lb
ReplyDeleteWisdom had a rubbish/decent first term but he is no right back. Flanno was terrible in his second season and Wisdom not being a natural full back has been found out. teams target him on the back post with long high balls as he is suspect at tucking round and poor at defending against forwards who have a running jump. I've always thought from day one he was all over the place at fullback but he does look assured and commanding at center half from the displays ive seen as he likes to mark tightly which denies the apposing forward the run on him.
ReplyDeleteToure must start every game at cb with another. We have so many mice at the club who squeak around the pitch and at the moment SG also falls into that category. BR was hoping to still be able to receive Toures influence and fathering from right back. Well here it is, Toure is a core player. Core meaning 'heart of' or central to what what we are trying to achieve. BR is a bright man and clocked this during the second half. Skrtel will be gone in January as he slips to fourth place CB and Toure will be allowed to be our lion at CB for the remainder of the season. Players don't get many chances with Rodgers, if you're not doing you're out.
As with Jose, this is world cup year and Sakho moved BECAUSE it is world cup year. He came here to play, and play he will, unfortunately no matter the cost to the team. I take heart from the fact Evra and Vidic were a laughing stock when they first arrived as they adjusted and improved. The kid has hit the ground crawling so far......................
I think Brendan Rodgers rationale is as follows: Play your best players available and you will win! Thats a good reasoning but it is fatally flawed...Why? Because you should play your best player in each specific position instead of playing your best players overall.
ReplyDeleteMake sense? Lemme explain... Sakho(monster), Toure(experience), Agger(vice captain) and Skrtel(man of the match) are the BEST 4 defenders available right now in the squad. Thats why they were chosen. Yet they are not the best in the specific positions they were asked to play. Toure can play right back, yes. Sakho can play right back, yes. But they are not the best full backs in the squad. Although Kelly and Enrique are "inferior" defenders compared to them 4, they are arguably better fullbacks than any of them. This concept that BR failed to understand is what caused his undoing.
The best he could have done would have been to play
Kelly---Toure---Sakho/Agger---Enrique as our back 4. This would have been more stable. With the stability from the back it would have improved our chances of winning. The same thing should have been done last week also when we drew at swansea. It was all because our defence was shaky that we could not attack properly. Its like the base of a pyramid. If foundations themselves are not solid, the whole infrastructure will collapse. The whole reason we started the season perfectly was thanks to our defence which was indeed very stable and very solid. Our attack this whole time has been shitty. Aspas, Sterling are useless. Coutinho was not at his best. Gerrard is too old and Lucas just do nothing. We only won because of individual brillance from the in from Sturridge.
Due to injuries, BR hands has been forced somewhat into trying different permutations and combinations with our defence. So its understandable to some extent. I just hope he is reading this and rectify immediately because we are losing ground now. 5 points has been thrown stupidly through the window. Lastly I want to add that buying sakho was useless. It was just a cheap attempt at shutting the mouth of us fans who was asking for a marquee signing. An attacking player as cover for coutinho was mandatory as it was evident that this season players were gonna mark him more tightly to nullify our offense. Eriksen should have been bought or some other player. Now thanks to their silliness, they bought too many defenders and they dont even know who to chose, we are losing points...
For selection of players and tactics Rodgers IS the one responsible for it. As a manager he should know what are his players strength and weaknesses are.A smart manager should utilize the players' strengths to the team benefit.One he should have rested Agger for the next match. He should have put faith in Skrtel & Sakho combination.He should continue using Wisdom on the right and keep Kelly fresh for the Man U game. The problem is leftback as we only have Enrique.Not to sure if Ilori would fit in the leftback position. Moses is doing well in the left wing. If you had noticed Aspas was utilized as a main striker in the first half.Sturridge out on the right wing.BR should have continue using Sturridge as the main striker since that is where Sturridge is best suited for.Alberto shold have started the game as a straight replacement for Coutinho. Don't know why BR change the formation and players so much. It upset Liverpool's rhythm playing even more.So to be fair to the players I can't fault them too much as they were listening to BR's instructions. So for this game BR should take most of the blame for the failure of securing another win. Granted we do not have the depth that we so desired.But there is no excuse for the manager to pay players out of position.
ReplyDeleteAgree about Skrtel. he is on his merry way. The only reason why he is still here is because Napoli were only willing to take him on loan whereas LFC wanted a permanent deal.
ReplyDeleteSakho on the other hand I believe has done ok. If he is going to play then it needs to be alongside a player who can show him the way i.e. Toure. As you say, Toure needs to be at CB all the time.
Right now with Johnson out Kelly is by far our best option for the RB slot.
I would of kept Toure at RB, wisdom scares me! And you don't know how he going to do, I want Kelly back ASAP, and Johnson we are missing him. Next game play, Toure,skrtel,sahko,erinque :)
ReplyDeleteAlways had my doubts about Rodgers, not a big fan of his tbh. I agree with you to some point, there's not much wrong with Kelly, Wisdom or Enrique, you're right it was a lame excuse. You speak of a period of sustained form, i would call it sustained luck, we have been dire in the second half of the first four matches and dire in the whole of the fith, that's NOT superb form Jamie. Missed some impressive transfers in the summer, like Mario Gomes and Eriksen for instance, these players went for a snip, instead we got in Aspas and Alberto and ignored the defensive midfield problem we clearly have. It's a problem Rodgers and his team appear to be blind to.
ReplyDeleteIt was a bizarre selection but I feel Brendan is still learning and I would be shocked if he made the same decision again he was left red faced with this one but as Jaimie has stated our league form has been pretty impressive this year.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Sakho better in the 2nd part of the game?Gerrard looks bereft of ideas and Henderson is our new Kuyt. And I am still hurting from last night...Oh and where is Lori? Will we see him soon?
ReplyDeleteI think you're being generous to Rodgers. Playing 4 centre backs and losing that attacking edge by not playing natural full backs would have been understandable against strong opposition away from home.
ReplyDeleteThis was against Southampton, at home, as league leaders (no matter what that means at the moment). It would have even have been understandable against a team with strong wingers but Southampton don't have that.
Playing defensively at home in this position means giving up the momentum. How's the team's confidence at the moment? Luckily we have Suarez to come back who's a force unto himself.
Sorry, but Rodgers f**ked up and he should have the grace to say so. We'll forgive him, everyone makes mistakes, he's still learning the job and he deserves several years to get it right.
Sakho was infinitely better when he was playing at LCB alongside Toure at RCB in the second half.
ReplyDeleteour main problem is in midfield...lucas and allen seem to have no defensive understanding of the position when paired together......there are gaping holes between the lines in midfield and defense...these same lines where apparent per season and its only a matter of time before football mangers of clubs fully exploit this...it wont matter what our back four if this space isnt closed
ReplyDeleteHow many times were lucas and Allen paired together?
ReplyDeletestill learning second season in on pots of money at one of the biggest clubs in the world......that a frightening concept
ReplyDeleteLucas and Allen while being a more structured pairing defensibly is also incredibly slow and uncreative
ReplyDeletei meant gerrard my mistake
ReplyDeleteAllen as a defensive midfielder (which he is not) was racking up man of the match awards while he was filling in for Lucas.
ReplyDeleteYour negativity towards Allen is quite amazing.
Nothing too impressive bar the results against teams who will struggle (bar utd), scrappy 1-0's with last minute penalty save to thank for one of them, very lucky to get away from Swansea with a point and could easily have drawn all our games with the 2nd half performances, this was coming..
ReplyDeleteso we should drop lucas for allen then ?
ReplyDeleteWhere did I say that? I stated that Allen is not a defensive midfielder but he did a great job when he was filling in for Lucas.
ReplyDeletein my honest opinion, i think rodgers let his heart ruled his head, and thought he could get away with it, southampton at home. every team seem to have one or two players that the manager thinks he can drop or sub at the drop of a hat, because their's no flak from the player, and i think enrique is one of those when it comes to rodgers
ReplyDeleteLoool reus? Are you dreaming? Why should this guy join us?
ReplyDeletecompletely agree.... You hit the nail on the head. Eriksen was cheaper than the combined fee we spent on Aspas and Alberto. I still can't believe we didn't go for him. If we think we have a strong squad we are kidding ourselves. Without couthino we have very little creativity. We really needed another player like eriksen... Wasted opportunity for a cheap great player. Hopefully we go for Honda in jan
ReplyDeleteWTF is the point of having a reserve team with developing young players if you are not going to play them when the chance arrives. Ilori is not a natural RB but has played there and is probably the fastest player on the squad. Flanagan and McLaughlin have proven themselves at least worthy of a chance when you literally have no other FB options. Play them. Much better option than playing a bunch of CB out of position.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but brendan's ego(on par with mou and pep)won't allow him accept the truth.gerrard is too old for all the defending rodgers is making him perform.a 3 man mid of hendo and lucas deep with gerrard as our cam won't hurt anyone.we could have won this game with 4cb if our midfield offered anything
ReplyDeleteAlso someone needs to tell sturridge he isn't world class yet all the praise is getting seem to be getting to his head.he is very greedy and lazy all he wants is a perfect pass to run on to.aspas is struggling but he covers a lot of ground without the ball.
Comparing yesterday's game in any way to a Champions League quarterfinal?
ReplyDeleteI understand that it was a bad decision but that's exaggerating the point a bit
I think BR would drop SG if he was a established high profile manager.It has nothing to do with ego.GERRARD isn't a BR type midfielder that keeps the ball with simple passes and plays clever one-two's or triangle passes in tight spaces to contribute to the sort of football he likes.
ReplyDeleteHe's thinking to much about some fan and media reaction and will want a relaxed dressing room and want to be fully backed by SG on whatever he says.
Benching GERRARD could have negative effect his not willing to deal with and the support he gets from senior players diminish.Who takes over as captain on the field will get turned into a massive deal by the media.
We need a different combination in midfield.The bottom line is BR needs to show strong leadership and make some tough decisions.
It would have been better to start with Kelly, Enrique and Wisdom rather than 4 CBs. If needed be, BR could have sub someone off later.
ReplyDeleteGerard Houllier had a back four with 4 centre-backs of Jamie Carragher, Stephane Henchoz, Sami Hyypia and Markus Babel when Liverpool won the treble in 2001.
ReplyDeletePlus Sakho has played at left-back for France.
Just saying, as I too was blown away by Rodgers' selection!
Tbh, Aspas in the number 10 role was just as bad (I actually winced when I saw that selection). We gave away 1 goal, but with a decent performance in the number 10 position we should have the players to score 2 or 3 past a bottom half team.
What a disappointment! Still cannot comprehend the team selection by BR with 4 centre backs. Hope this mistake will help him learn and never to commit the same again. On the whole. I have lost count of how many times Stevie G loses the ball. The passing was poor. Tactically outplayed by the opponents. Poor team play. More importantly, lacking cohesiveness, I didn't see any sense of commitment and determination ( perhaps only Hendo showed some), this saddens me. Zero fighting spirit..
ReplyDeleteBetter wake up.. Performance like that.. Huge potential for bottom 4.
Not only was Gerrard too deep, but he strolled through the game. It was a poor, poor performance. Add to that Moses who seems to think he can jog his way to a full contract, and the writing was on the wall. The only player who can hold his head high is Jordan Henderson. Again.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, if the Sturridge penalty had been given, we may have scraped the game 1-0 and still been top. Maybe we all needed that reality check.
Maybe people might start giving Glen Johnson a bit of credit...... ??
ReplyDeleteForgot to add:
ReplyDeleteSakho was just Traore on steroids.
In fairness Enrique has had a bad run of form in my opinion and didn't do much to change it when he came on. Could this be part for the reason? Could the knees thing be a bit of bull as he will be used due to a lack of better options? I think part of it is down to Skirtles form being good and Rodgers liking Agger too much to drop him and we have just paid a wedge for Sakho. Having Wisdom on wouldn't have changed the fact we would have had four CBs on and I thought Toure did as good a job or better than wisdom would have. Despite the ridiculous set of events that lead to their goal.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen too much of the youth. Is Ryan McLaughln too far away to be considered? Worth a pop Wednesday?
I thought it was a dodgey set up before the game and it realy was. I didn't realise how much we would miss Johnson. But to be fair we were bad all over. Yes we were poor getting the ball forward always a bit ponderous but there was a lack of movement for the man on the ball and Sturridge probably had his worst game for us. The midfield question seriously needs looking at too. Teams are now making the pitch tight in the middle and there doesn't seem to be enough guile to get around it. We need more movement and trickery. We very much missed Coutinho.
Yes, he is one of the best if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteYa well, to conclude: Enrique should have played. Toure at RB is still preferable than Wisdom for me. I would have played Kelly, and i believe that was another mistake, in which case Toure for Skrtel and Skrtel for Agger, if was injured.- - - Then, as your point comes to show, our midfield was pathetic. So much to do there, biggest mistake of our manager was to neglect this issue under the illness of blindness and names threw so many months. Then again, I would have played All: Alberto, Henderson, Sterling/Ibe from start. They would have passed the ball, pressed threw all the game to win balls, and would have been a cohesive attacking force, and this is so much more important than hoping for a Gerrard free kick or a good pass to come and save us, or hoping Aspas would convert his mentality under the pressure;
ReplyDeleteSo Rodgers does have problems under the surface when he speaks, but one comes to forget they're a conclusion of his past and long term acts and decision making, so he doesn't man up - his 'shocked' - under the pressure obviously for he is Brendan Rodgers, and swirls up some lies, totally confused and generally un aware of what led to this, blaming his squad for being week, which is true but same time a phenomena of his fair-weather ability to see. Once i would call this pathetic, but then again after hearing your point, maybe just not a good enough manager yet and this is the out come.
Of course, never ever thought differently; His one of about 3 to 5 players who gives me comfort while holding the ball for years now.
ReplyDeleteStill, i'm really up for signing Montoya, his a fantastic fullback [and not abusing the word], and can just get better now.
Ya well, to conclude: Enrique should have played. Toure at RB is still preferable than Wisdom for me. I would have played Kelly, and i believe that was another mistake, in which case Toure for Skrtel and Skrtel for Agger, if was injured.- - - Then, as your point comes to show, our midfield was pathetic. So much to do there, biggest mistake of our manager was to neglect this issue under the illness of blindness and names threw so many months. Then again, I would have played All: Alberto, Henderson, Sterling/Ibe from start. They would have passed the ball, pressed threw all the game to win balls, and would have been a cohesive attacking force, and this is so much more important than hoping for a Gerrard free kick or a good pass to come and save us, or hoping Aspas would convert his mentality under the pressure;
ReplyDeleteSo Rodgers does have problems under the surface when he speaks, but one comes to forget they're a conclusion of his past and long term acts and decision making, so he doesn't man up - his 'shocked' - under the pressure obviously for he is Brendan Rodgers, and swirls up some lies, totally confused and generally un aware of what led to this, blaming his squad for being week, which is true but same time a phenomena of his fair-weather ability to see. Once i would call this pathetic, but then again after hearing your point, maybe just not a good enough manager yet
and this is the out come.
Sorry, but this one seem to be directed to Hazza and not for this one. Mistake.
ReplyDeleteInteresting
ReplyDeleteI don't know about Enrique's fitness and all but Wisdom and Kelly and even Enrique were on the bench, suffice to say they are available on the pitch when needed. Wisdom would be my first choice all day against the Saints (they are not the City or United or Arsenal if we were going to park the bus). On left back, Flanny or even Agger could play there. Just freaking don't play players out of position - that's all I'm saying and Toure looked more like a captain to me than Gerrard yesterday. The team had no fight, no runs, slow, sloppy - I don't just blame BR I blame the whole team - they just let the club and us fans down. Everyone of them.
ReplyDeleteI think Saturday performances showed that 4th place is going to be a tough challenge to achieve with our lack of squad depth. My biggest worry is that Liverpool have a big weakness and Southampton knew what it was and to their credit exploited it. They put pressure on the back four knowing that Mignolet is not as good as Reina with his short/long passing distribution. So to add center backs into full back positions on top of that was always going to invite pressure. I am sure that other teams will employ this method in the future games to come. The other worry is of course the lack of creativity in the team without Suarez Coutinho and Johnston but...thank god Suarez is available because the next five games are important with the annual "black November" and the tough xmas period which awaits LFC.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't you see this result coming. Already talk of Liverpool winning the league after the third game. The team is still a lightweight compared to the likes of Man. City, Chelsea, Man. Utd, Arsenal and now Tottenham. They had no one on the bench to change the game and will not get anywhere near the top 4 this season
ReplyDeleteI wonder if anyone can explain how easily Southampton had worked out our game plan and realised our keeper is hopeless with his feet. Further evidence of Rodgers IGNORING what the opposition do.
ReplyDeleteThat's twice Southampton have done it to us in a year and you would think he would have learnt after the first time. But no, he didn't.
I don't know who else noticed that he looked like a guy out of his depth realising he had been found out in the post-match interview.
Needs to really step it up now. If we limp out of the cup again (like last year) the pressure is really on.
I recall is was a 4-3-3 formation, so Crouch was not playing as a left winger as such, but a left sided forward. His job would not be to go past players and put crosses in.
ReplyDeleteI also recall it was for part of the game. Maybe Reading had a weakness between right full back and centre back?
Seems far less of a travesty than playing four centrebacks
Wow, Balotelli is one of the best penalty takers around and has never missed a penalty....until today...against a certain Spaniard. I've not got a point, tbh, just saw Reina's name here and thought I'd mention it.
ReplyDeletethe problem is that sakho hasnt played a lot in the recent past - so isnt really match fit. BR has spent a lot of money on him and thinks he has to play him - rather than use him as a substitute and bring him slowly he's pushed in at the deep end.
ReplyDeleteAfter the united game we had 7 eminently winnable games. However we have dropped 5 points from of them. For some reason without coutinho we tend to run out of ideas to attack and this was clear against southampton. Had sturridge been given the penalty we may have tried to stall out for a 1-0 but all it would have done is paper over some cracks.
Whether BR does go for mata is one thing whether fsg cough up is another. One thing's clear we certainly need him.
Joint top, if espn are right. Napoli definitely one of the faves for Serie A.
ReplyDeleteI've wanted Reina out for 2 seasons now. So I'm glad he has gone, as it was getting stale for both us and him. Grateful for the earlier times that is for sure but sometimes change is necessary.
Seems like our distribution is poor from back to front, these days! ;)
Yeah certainly was sat.
ReplyDeleteI think there were several problems against Southampton, but I think the bigger problem was the midfield. Lucas and Gerrard were woeful and Aspas was non-existent. I really don't understand why Alberto wasn't played after he'd scored a hat-trick for the reserves in the week. He'd be a much more natural replacement for Coutinho.
ReplyDeleteI broadly agree with your points JK, but I disagree with some of it:
* You say that if we're watching Enrique's knees, why has he started so many games? He has started so many games because we've had no alternative at left-back since last season. We bought Cissokho to alleviate this, but he got injured almost instantly. His knees are probably a problem because he always has to play.
* Kelly may have completed 90 minutes, but if his injury record tells us anything, it is that he needs to be handled with enormous care. My guess is he didn't want to risk yet another injury.
I agree with your point re: Agger. He lost his man on a set-piece AGAIN. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was because of his injury. He's borderline narcoleptic when it comes to defending set-pieces though.
I believe he had his reasons and that is good enough for me. I am not a fan of calling someone a liar without any evidence to the contrary.
ReplyDeleteI can't stand by and support the message in this editorial, I have more faith in Brendan who knows the players, their injuries/niggles, their fitness levels and their attitude in training and in general.
It is for Brendan to use all that knowledge and put out a team. I am satisfied he is doing that otherwise he would be a journalist.
Defensively our only issue was that Agger lost his man at a set piece. It was some pretty average defending and a perfectly placed header. Sometimes this happens and it's obviously not great but I don't think the side selection had much to do with it. As a team we should have dealt with it and we didn't. Otherwise we did very well as a unit and the full backs that we went with were very good defensively.
ReplyDeleteFor Enrique, there was a period where he lost quite a bit of form due to his knee issues and that's not something we want to deal with again. For him it sounds like as soon as he feels pain in his knees then his confidence and performance suffers. While Rodgers didn't explain it very well I suspect that if Enrique was complaining of some pain in his knees, pain that he has probably played through a number of times in his career, then he was left on the bench. It's not likely to be Rodgers trying to pro-actively manage the issue, there is no way a professional footballer at full fitness not complaining about pain would not start the game, so obviously there is more to it. If he's had some pain show up during the week then he shouldn't start the game, simple as that. He's good for 30 minutes in an emergency, which turned out to be needed, but otherwise a sound decision which makes total sense to me.
I don't agree with the idea that Wisdom needs match practice so let him play, that's nonsense. He's sometimes done well at full back but it's also not his preferred position. If he's not shown the quality in training then he shouldn't play, simple as that. If he HAD shown that quality then he would have started, so clearly he's not up to the required level yet. That's fine, he's simply not going to be our starting full back. It's not remotely valid to suggest that he should have started the game because he needs the practice, that wouldn't have helped our performance at all.
Kelly can be fit enough to play 20-40 minutes and yet not start the game, that's also perfectly fine. He's got very little match practice. I think there is some confusion over the word "fit". Kelly is injury free but he's not yet operating at PL match levels, which involves a very high work rate. It's perfectly logical to have him on the bench, ready to contribute a few minutes but not a longer period of time and especially not 90 minutes.
What I agree with 100% is that we suffered offensively and Rodgers didn't seem to be willing to make changes until it was too late. I think it illustrates how important our fullbacks are in our attack, especially Johnson. We don't have true wide players so it's those fullbacks overlapping that give us the difference when needed. Johnson spends quite a bit of time attacking opposition penalty areas and you just don't get that same quality from Sakho or Toure, that's clear enough. I don't really know what Rodgers was thinking but maybe he felt he had run out of options. Without that quality out wide we had no outlets and no one to support the running of Moses or Sturridge, they had to do it all themselves. Southampton pressed up a bit and we simply had no answer with 4 slow-footed CBs trying to pass the ball out of their own half, it was kind of embarrassing. All we can do is hope that Rodgers has learned from the mistake. Our system is hopeless without quality full backs who can work with the ball.
I wonder if with Sakho as our defensive leader maybe Skrtel has a bigger role in the side. He was again defensively very solid and it seems as if Agger has a few defensive weaknesses that will get exposed from time to time. Maybe Sakho/Skrtel is our #1 CB pairing and Agger is going to have to improve in order to be a certain starter. Or he could just have been suffering from the injury and never should have started in the first place.
ReplyDeleteDefensively we were fine. For all the moments of small scares we had they only scored one goal from a set piece and that was a moment of melt down that simply never should have happened. I think our full backs are ultimately more important in attack.
ReplyDeleteYou mean back with the guys who consistently kept us in CL football, won trophies and each had us finish at least one season as a close second in the league? Most LFC fans would be pretty happy to go back to those days.
ReplyDeleteI think good decison when B.Rodgers try to used 4 centreback but the problem is now Midfield and foward never function very well and succesfully.Without Coutinho look like LFC no general players to move foward attacking.Moses and Sturridge lack of creativity.Jordan Henderson back to old style again.....afraid to tackle down opponent players and affraid to beat defender (must improve about dribble).Luis Alberto come in very late.Steven Gerrard should start playing as CDM or holding ball.
ReplyDeleteEumm I think you will find plenty of people who criticised that decsion when the lineup was posted. Seeing as these lineups are top secret and managers only give them an hour before kick off, people can't criticise it two days before the match can they?
ReplyDeleteHe's still learning the job? Managing a team is managing a team. I'd have bought the whole big team pressure getting used to stuff last year but he's here a year now, he's had time to learn. Playing to hold on to 1-0 leads is not about needing to learn, not buying the players you need is not about learning and playing a CB at LB even if you have options is also not about learning. It's about decision that were made, by Rodgers, and those decision were wrong. End of story. Considering he's a manager and those guys never seem able to admit their approach is wrong, I'm already willing to say that Rodgers and FSG will not bring us one step closer to the title. Not one single step.
ReplyDeleteIf Kelly was not fit, why was he on the bench? Simple, because defensively the team was stretched thin as it was, and he'd just played a reserve game to step up his fitness, hardly an ideal candidate to come off the bench but with so little defensive options, there wasn't much choice, unless Ilori was brought in, and we might assume he's not ready. I agree, playing Agger was a mistake but realistically he only had Wisdom and Sakho to juggle with and opted not to use him, which was a bad idea anyway because a fit Agger can make glaring errors, and an unfit one more so, as it was there were some comedy errors defensively. Mignolet's triple save should never have been allowed to happen, keystone kops defending. Could have used Toure's leadership in there. Yes I agree about the defensive midfielder, and ironically Wanyama, who was allegedly our target, had a sterling game. Rodgers himself has said he did not get all what he wanted to get done done by the end of the window,but in a way it is good for this injury list to come now so we can hopefully effectively stop gap, because if anything, managing his resources, players properly is the name of the game now.
ReplyDeleteRight now, I'd most like to see Toure and Sakho paired together. Skrtel has been very solid of late though.
ReplyDeleteI know people were not happy or voiced concerns.I was one of them.Predictably you've come to criticise again without understanding what i said.I agree with you!
ReplyDeleteWhen you use a quotation mark before and after a sentence it means you are copying what someone else said or thinks.It's not necessarily how you feel and looking at my follow up statement i made that clear.
Your comment should've been directed at HAZZA but for some reason you replied to me.
I think he's still trying. Sakho wasn't our first choice marquee signing, we went for Mkhitaryan, Costa and then Willian. Maybe Joe Allen has been not up to standard but the idea was that he'd anchor the team. Sturridge is certainly a first team signing. I agree that there are a ton of squad signings and we need more quality but I feel like the club is trying to fill that gap and we'll get better again in January. Rodgers is just being over-careful right now and sure, a couple more classy players could have helped but Moses is showing his quality and Sakho will be a star. If we can just maintain and stay in touch with the top of the league we'll hopefully get someone of real quality in January to play up front.
ReplyDeleteThat's my point though, we should have got said quality in in the summer. The summer window is cheaper and on top of that you have from February till June to prepare for it. Rodgers has always said he doesn't spend money for the sake of it. So I doubt he will have signed Sakho because he couldn't sign the attacking midfielders you mentioned. Sturridge was not a summer signing but he does further prove my point. Sturridge as well as Coutinho were signed to improve the first team and they both had an immediate impact on our results. Aspas, Alberto, iLori cost nearly 25 million quid between them without having any impact on our results what so ever. They may be good players in the future or in Aspas's case, for the bench but our first priority has to be our direct results, right now. Once that is in place, we can start working on strengthening our squad, although that is a natural effect of strengthening your first team, and our reserves. Saying good players won't come because we don't play CL is simply not good enough. Southampton and Spurs managed to sign plenty good players without being in the Champions League.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Aurelio at defensive mid was all that bad and he had the attributes: good reading of the game and a defensive mindset, allied with a good left which gave him a good range of passing.
ReplyDelete