After a concerted campaign of classless self-promotion over the last month, Liverpool striker Luis Suarez appears to have dialed down his crass flirtation with Real Madrid, and many Reds fans are beginning to see that their blind faith in - and unquestioning support of - the Uruguayan may have been misplaced. That's not the case for everyone though, including former Liverpool midfielder Craig Johnston.
In an interview with The Australian on Saturday, Johnston - who won five league titles with Liverpool in the 1980s - hailed Suarez as 'very special', and made the baseless claim that 'no one had ever played with such passion and desire in English football'. Johnston's gross hyperbole continued with the following incredulous remarks:
"Suarez is the best player to have ever worn a Liverpool shirt. I know it will be controversial and cause a bit of a scene, but it is my opinion
"He is something very, very special. My assessment is based on what he brings to the team. He gets 5 per cent more out of the other players whenever he is on the field. If we lose him, I think we're in trouble."
Ugh. Johnson is indeed entitled to his opinion, but he has arguably delivered a gigantic, stinging insult to dozens of other Liverpool players, past and present, and his view is sadly indicative of the misguided hero-worship displayed by so many Reds fans over the last couple of years.
Suarez better than the likes of Dalglish, Barnes, Gerrard, Fowler, Rush and the many other great players of the past? Absolutely NO CHANCE (IMO). Not even close. With the greatest respect, the idea is simply laughable, and it's disappointing that Johnston would heap such exorbitant praise on a player who has spent 50% of his time dragging Liverpool's name through the mud.
When all is said and done, Suarez's specific, measurable impact on Liverpool is comparatively negligible, and history will remember it that way. In his two full seasons, the Reds have finished 8th and 7th in the league, so it's not as if he's done a Maradona at Napoli and galvanised the team to radically punch above its weight.
Yes, it's a team game, but a player who doesn't push the TEAM to greater heights cannot be called the 'best ever' (IMO). In the modern era, players like Dalglish, Gerrard, Barnes HAVE pushed LFC to greater heights, which is why they are deemed all-time greats for Liverpool.
It is utterly inconceivable that Suarez - a player whose greatest achievement is to break LFC's banned games record - is the club's best ever player, though there are probably lots of LFC fans out there who will echo Johnston's view.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
In an interview with The Australian on Saturday, Johnston - who won five league titles with Liverpool in the 1980s - hailed Suarez as 'very special', and made the baseless claim that 'no one had ever played with such passion and desire in English football'. Johnston's gross hyperbole continued with the following incredulous remarks:
"Suarez is the best player to have ever worn a Liverpool shirt. I know it will be controversial and cause a bit of a scene, but it is my opinion
"He is something very, very special. My assessment is based on what he brings to the team. He gets 5 per cent more out of the other players whenever he is on the field. If we lose him, I think we're in trouble."
Ugh. Johnson is indeed entitled to his opinion, but he has arguably delivered a gigantic, stinging insult to dozens of other Liverpool players, past and present, and his view is sadly indicative of the misguided hero-worship displayed by so many Reds fans over the last couple of years.
Suarez better than the likes of Dalglish, Barnes, Gerrard, Fowler, Rush and the many other great players of the past? Absolutely NO CHANCE (IMO). Not even close. With the greatest respect, the idea is simply laughable, and it's disappointing that Johnston would heap such exorbitant praise on a player who has spent 50% of his time dragging Liverpool's name through the mud.
When all is said and done, Suarez's specific, measurable impact on Liverpool is comparatively negligible, and history will remember it that way. In his two full seasons, the Reds have finished 8th and 7th in the league, so it's not as if he's done a Maradona at Napoli and galvanised the team to radically punch above its weight.
Yes, it's a team game, but a player who doesn't push the TEAM to greater heights cannot be called the 'best ever' (IMO). In the modern era, players like Dalglish, Gerrard, Barnes HAVE pushed LFC to greater heights, which is why they are deemed all-time greats for Liverpool.
It is utterly inconceivable that Suarez - a player whose greatest achievement is to break LFC's banned games record - is the club's best ever player, though there are probably lots of LFC fans out there who will echo Johnston's view.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Though he doesn't have the class to represent the Liverpool football club but based solely on his footballing abilities, he is definitely up there. And if someone believes he is best player doesn't mean he is misguided. Misguided is the one who only ever writes negative article about a single player multiple times. Misguided is the one who reads full interview and only considers negative remarks for the particular player. Misguided is the one who thinks team will improve without world class player. Misguided is one who doesn't keep an open mind but sticks with his Vedanta. Misguided is one who has lost his sleep and time writing articles about his own prejudices for last 2 years.
ReplyDeleteYou really think that Suarez is more skilful than John Barnes? The mind boggles (!)
ReplyDeletejohnston is entitled to his view ,and if he thinks hes the greatest thats is opinion,obviously the poll is going to discredit the johnston statement,but then again no player would ever get everyones vote,as we have had so many great players,but to say it is an insult to dozens of other players is also not true,as without doubt he would bet in most impartial peoples top twenty,i voted no because for me they will only ever be one king,followed by barnes and gerrard ,then they is a group of players that will forever live in the memory and suarez falls into that group
ReplyDeleteWhat is Johnston smoking?
ReplyDeleteSorry but John Barnes for me is most skillful player we have ever had.
ReplyDeleteI would also say that mcmanaman on his day was also a very special player
Johnston, I respect you, but you are really embarrassing us Australian football fans.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I don't know if Suarez is the best player or not.....but 1 thing that i'm sure is liverpool can wins more game with sturridge and not with him....i want a finisher who can give me more goal and wins game for us, not an entertainer....for example, i will choose batistuta more than maradona in my squad coz i need loads of goal not a beautiful goal...IMHO
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's spend the 40 million for Suarez on Alan Smithee, 17-year-old next Pele from Croydon, Raul Equis superstar at Real Madrid Castilla and Jaap Iks, Dutch worldbeater with Italian roots who totally outscored his team mates with 5 goals in 38 matches playing for Padova in the Italian Serie B. The sooner we get rid of all of these great players and replace them with loads of Jamie Redknapp quality potential, the better. If we're Lucky we can be like Arsenal and sell our best players every year just to make sure we will never win anything ever again. As long as we get to play CL qualification matches every summer of course.
ReplyDeleteI voted yes but only because I knew people would take this poll way too seriously and vote no. The way I see it, you can't speak of "the best" player the club has ever seen without insulting all the others. If someone makes that statement about Dalglish, Barnes or Gerrard it is just as big an insult to all the others, including Suarez. Like him or not, Luis Suarez is currently one of the best five players in the world and one of a number of great players Liverpool have ever had. Along with all the others mentioned in the article.
ReplyDeleteI always wonder why Gerrard didn't win world player of the year during that period. He was the best player in the world without doubt.
ReplyDeleteLikewise
ReplyDeleteHe's right though, it IS controversial
ReplyDeleteJk, this is such a hard one to discuss (and a great discussion). I think the Suarez of 2013 vs the Barnes of the 80's then Suarez is the better player. If Barnes would grow up during this era of football then you could argue he would be better than Suarez. As an all round man, then Barnes wins hands down. The same could be said about all the other older generation players.
ReplyDeleteThe interesting question is, Gerrard in his prime or Suarez, that is too tough to answer, just based on skill level and general play. Again Gerrard is the better human being, hands down
Yeah, selling your best player is a great recipe for success... Whilst it will be difficult to hold on to Suarez we should do everything in our power to do so. Whilst as this article obviously points out he's far from liverpools best ever player he's still liverpools best current player. If we sold him , even for £40 million, who would we get to replace him? There are very few strikers in the world of Suarez s ability and certainly none that would be interested in coming to Liverpool. What would inevitably happen is that we would invest the 40 million in about four mediocre players that mid table clubs are also in the hunt for (like we have already done with aspas and Alberto) and battling with the likes of Swansea for players isn't going to get you into the champions league. If we want to make the top four and challenge for the title we need world class players and as we have one, selling him would be complete and utter stupidity . Our transfer policy in this transfer window this far seems far more concerned with quantity rather than quality, Rodgers ensuring he doesn't get the stick received by Kenny dalglish by spending smaller amounts of money on players and then having little to answer for if they don't success.
ReplyDeleteUtter rubbish, KK and Barnesy were the kings.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to take into account his contribution and the way he conducted himself, then he is nowhere near the best player. Shankly would be turning if his grave if Suarez was voted Liverpool's best ever player.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, based on the logic of this article, anyone who says X player is the best Liverpool player of all time is delivering a stinging insult to dozens of ex players.
ReplyDeleteIf Johnson has said that he believed that Barnes was the best player in his opinion, it would have been exactly the same insult to the dozen players, no? He is entitled to his opinion. I think Gerrard is the best. Thats not an taking anything away from any of the other numerous great Liverpool players.
He won the UEFA Club Footballer of the year in 2005
ReplyDeleteI mean the Ballon d'or
ReplyDeleteEither way liverpool should hold onto him for another season before selling him on. He is a talented crafty player who makes other players around him play well also other players can learn with confidence from him because he give his all into the game especially the new batch of attacking players that have signed and the ones still yet to arrive would benefit most. PLAYERS ARE HUMAN AND DO MAKE MISTAKES WE SHOULDN'T LET THAT COME IN THE WAY. On field he his one of the best players ever to don the LIVERPOOL FC SHIRT if not the best
ReplyDeleteLS is a good player, no mistake about that. But how can a player become the best player ever at the club after the two years he has had?
ReplyDeleteJust sell him already!
suarez or mcmanaman suarez hands down
ReplyDeleteIt's not like he has made one mistake is it? If he stays he is going to do something silly again eventually. After all the flirting with RM I think it's better we sell him.
ReplyDeleteMost talented maybe. Greatest? Never in a million years.
ReplyDeleteThe man thinks very highly of suarez. What he says is not that much of a stretch. I really cant see what your problem is. You seem to be getting upset on behalf of the players you grew up watching. This guy played with them, so he might know what he is talking about?
ReplyDeletejaimie as stated many times that he thinks barnes is the best ever.was that a stinging insult to many ex players ,no it was his opinion ,but because johnston as said ,he thinks suarez is the best ,its an insult lol;-)
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of Liverpool Fans forget how good Mcmanaman actually was and they let what happened with his leaving cloud their judgement.
ReplyDeleteMcmanaman is still the most decorated English footballer to have played at any foreign club in terms of trophies won overseas.
He was for 3 years the most highly paid British player in the world.
Eve UEFA states and I quote, "of all England's footballing exports in the modern era, none were as successful as McManaman"
I am pretty sure he still holds the record for most goals assist of any Liverpool Player.
Here is a video showing what he was capable of..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFc9frXRAHg
He was one fo the best ever players who has put on the Liverpool Shirt.
my top ten in order would be
ReplyDeleteking kenny
barnes
gerrard
rush
souness
hansen
beardsley
ray kennedy
suarez
fowler
but we can all pick different players
You put Suarez ahead of Fowler?!!!
ReplyDeletewhy would that be he dose not speak on behalf of your nation ,hes speaking for himself,and skippy was a joy to watch,a fine player,imo the best australian footballer by far
ReplyDeleteI've got more time for what Craig Johnson got to say about Liverpool than any other ex red. Johnson is a creative genuis so I can see why he rates Luis so highly.
ReplyDeleteSELL.
ReplyDeleteyes fowler wasa fantastic goalscorer but he could not do what suarez can do ,now if you could combine suarez,s skill with fowlers finishing,you would probably have the greatest player in the world,,carlsberg do not do players but if they did;-)
ReplyDeleteIf only Ferguson would have felt the same about Cantona and Keane...Would have been GREAT for us. And no treble for the manx either. Had Bilardo felt the same about Maradonna, Germany would be up one world cup right now.
ReplyDeleteagree m8 with great power comes great responsability
ReplyDeleteWe are talking about football playing ability, not the other stuff a player brings with him, right? Considering this, his ability to play football, I would contest your, Jaimie, remark that Suaréz is "not even close" to the best players we have had the pleasure to watch in our shirt. He surely is the closest we've seen in many years.
ReplyDeleteYou can hate Suaréz all you want, but to deny that he is a great player to watch (as long as he behaves) is, imho, ignorant.
You've hit the nail on the head. The article isn't solely about ability, which most others on here fail to realise or at least acknowledge.
ReplyDeletenah anty id still say dalglish alonso and gerrard are ahead of him
ReplyDeleteu need to start using batman dialogues XD
ReplyDeleteI didn't argue that Suaréz is better than them, but that claiming that Suaréz isn't even close to our best ever players is an insult to his footballing ability.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, it's clear you dislike Suarez because of his behavior, but don't let that cloud your judgement about his skills and impact on the football pitch. He's passionate and the most skillfull player ever for us. Keep in mind that he is still adjusting to this league given his the length of suspensions he had to serve.Lol
ReplyDeletetrue ill side with him if he stays if he leaves its all daggers like mr torress :D
ReplyDeletesoon m8 i will have to watch the films first;-)
ReplyDeleteAs much as I dislike them, both Torres and Owen in their prime were better players than Suarez
ReplyDeletebetter goalscorers maybe
ReplyDeleteThat is in interesting fact about Johnston I totally forgot! It feels cool to know that such a great and popular boot was Australian invented...
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely. Cheating is ingrained in his psyche; a sad byproduct of the moral bankruptcy of modern football.
ReplyDeleteI know this may come as a shock to many, but I totally agree with this.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but Suarez is in no way the 'most skilful player ever' for LFC. This is just my personal view, but anyone who thinks that has clearly never watched John Barnes play on a regular basis. Anyone who witnessed Barnes' genius knows that he is 10 levels above Suarez when it comes to skill, guile and creativity.
ReplyDeleteExactly. If Barnes and Dalglish were biters/divers/cheats etc, they wouldn't be worthy of being called the 'best ever' either.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree, Ghost Rider. McManaman was a genius player for Liverpool, and a cut above Suarez IMO. People go on about Suarez's alleged impact at LFC, but McManaman's was greater. He scored goals, but his assist rate was simply incredible. I'm working my way through all the season review videos at the moment to get an accurate number of Macca's assists (no accurate figure exists) - the guy was a creative powerhouse, and it's a maddening that so many fans fail to recognise this.
ReplyDeletePeter - I disagree. There are certain players who are widely acknowledged to be worthy of the title 'best ever LFC player', and Barnes is in that group, so it's not an insult to other players because the likes of Barnes, Dalglish, Gerrard etc deserve the title.
ReplyDeleteSuarez in no way, shape or form deserves to be in that elite group (IMO).
Agree, FDotM - It's like saying Richard Nixon is the US's best ever President.
ReplyDeleteyes it is1 i agree with JK
ReplyDeleteIt's 17% now, and I have a message for those voters:
ReplyDelete"I will look for you; I *will* find you, and I will kill you".
It's not an insult to speak of Gerrard/Barnes etc being the best because they deserve to be considered as such. I doubt KD would protest if Barnes was voted best ever - he'd probably agree. For example, John Aldridge has repeatedly stated that he thinks Barnes is the best ever; I doubt KD takes offence at that because he knows Barnes is on the same level as him, both on the field and with his conduct for LFC.
ReplyDeleteGood points. After all, winning games is what matters.
ReplyDeletewhoa,for a moment i thought you meant me! LOL, JK don't turn green and split your shirt! it's only a poll!!haha!
ReplyDeleteFair points, but in my view, Suarez is 'not even close' to John Barnes, Dalglish, Gerrard, or even McManaman. Having ability is one thing, but ability + impact/influence on the team's fortunes is another. The aforementioned players were absolutely integral to their respective teams. Suarez is not.
ReplyDeleteIt is cool right but then again he also wrote The Anfield Rap so he does occasionally get it wrong as he has this time
ReplyDeleteLIKE : moral bankruptcy of modern football...
ReplyDeleteIf he stay LFC coming season i would be 1st think twice where my dignity as a fan of this club. Even when we doom for many year but i still proud to say im a LFC fan. I would rather relegated rather than winning on cheat (bite mayb) !!!!
Agree with you. I'd rather LFC lose a game than win by cheating. A hollow victory is no victory at all.
ReplyDeleteHey Nick quick question are you in Aus ? was reading Herry Kewells comments the other day and sounds like it will be great over there. Will you get a chance to see the team ?
ReplyDeletewell jaimie you would agree with him if he had said biscan was a better player than suarez you reply could well have been the same,and come on macca would get no were near my top 20 nevermind top ten
ReplyDeletehe never got the chance at international level
ReplyDeletedid he not also write the pride of merseyside
ReplyDeleteI think Suarez is still the better player but Macca was a fantastic talent. I would love a Macca type player in our side right now
ReplyDeleteI think the idea of Suarez being the greatest player is a bit foolish to be honest. He's only been here 2 1/2 years.
ReplyDeleteGoing along with JK's point though in terms of fans feeling betrayal, I am curious to see what happens if LFC doesn't sell Suarez. Will the fans embrace him like they've done in the past or will they alienate him even more than the British press has already done?
Assuming the fans don't embrace him, My favorite part will be when Suarez tries to say that he's being wrongly persecuted... as if he didn't bring it on himself.
IMO no one can replace Gerrard for me. He was the reason I started following LFC and I cannot see him being compared to any player in the world. Gerrard is someone who will never be replaced at LFC and there will be no other player coming through the youth setup of the LFC that will be like him and will stay true to the club even if he gets as good as him. Suarez does provide a lot of morale boost to other players on the field and that is something no stat can show, but the recent acts that he has put up even after continuous support from the majority of the LFC fans seems to mean nothing to him and its better if he's sold. There will always be a new hero if one leaves there are others who are ready to step up.
ReplyDeleteI agree. It's the fact that it's Suarez which turns the answer of this oft-posed question into a "Huge Insult"
ReplyDeleteLots of LFC legends have said who they thought was the best ever without being accused of insulting the other legends by their answer.
And I would take Barnes over Suarez even if Suarez was a saint.
Agreed. Macca was a bit part player for a lot of his time in Madrid. Great player, way better attitude, but not better than Suarez in pure footballing terms
ReplyDeleteMore of an obsession than a vendetta, but strong points.
ReplyDeleteBy your logic, Gerrards impact has been neglible also, as he has played at the same time as Luis, and only led the team to the 7th and 8th. Present day, at Liverpool, or the Premier League, name a player who plays with more passion, or has a better work rate. And please don't say Gerrard, he's' good, but has dragged his feet on many occasions. ( I can't make an opinion on older players - never saw them play).
ReplyDeleteName a player that is more passionate, has better work rate.
We'll see how integral he is this coming season when he's not at LFC. The club will finish higher than 7th, and if that happens, it will be strong evidence to suggest that his loss made no difference.
ReplyDeleteu misunderstand :D i meant ill cover his back as long as he stays being a pool fan but the second he leaves he is enemy like torres :D
ReplyDeleteJK, will have agree to disagree on that one.
ReplyDeleteIts subjective though. I might think Lucas is the best ever Liverpool player. Just because that is obviously incorrect doesn't make my opinion a huge insult to anyone.
ReplyDeleteHence my choice of words; he 'chose' to represent England if he were ever called up ;)
ReplyDeleteYeah, I live in Sydney, but I'm flying down to Melbourne to watch the reds 4 days after I watch the All Stars try and watch Man Utd. Man Utd's training base will be 5 mins from my house, and I'm actually a chance of securing a spot to meet players and have a clinic with them. I don't know whether I give my spot to my mate who supports Man Utd, or keep the once in a life time opportunity to serve as a spy for Liverpool!
ReplyDeleteTo me it's still not an insult. I don't really agree at all that saying one brilliant football player is better than another brilliant football player is insulting. We do the same thing as fans, always comparing players, teams, goals, games. Is it an insult to rank a set of 10 "goals of the week" and assign 1 of them the number one spot? It's just a subjective judgement, and it certainly doesn't degrade the lower ranked items, it just holds up the top ranked item as being particularly appealing or striking. An insult, to me, is a negative judgement, a suggestion that someone has poor qualities. Being compared to other talented footballers is simply not that. No one is saying Gerrard or Dalglish or Rush are bad players therefore there is no actual insult.
ReplyDeleteI think it's worth clarifying that Suarez isn't saying he's being wrongly persecuted, he's simply complaining that he's being persecuted. He admits freely enough that it's partly his own doing, he's just saying he's unhappy with the results of that. We can talk about "justice" and "karma" in such a situation but the end result is the same: the press give him a hard time and he doesn't like it. That's ultimately a statement of simple facts. That it's his own fault doesn't make the treatment in the press any more enjoyable.
ReplyDeleteAnyone who gets caught breaking the law could be sent to jail. When you get to jail you could say, quite reasonably and without having to construct a story, that jail is not a nice place to be. Unless you become actually institutionalised in your own mind you'd never stay there of your own free will, despite how you view your crimes or what you think you might deserve. Suarez similarly knows that he's being punished for his own actions, but he's not locked in to this situation and he's actually not obliged to put up with it. His official punishment is a ban from the FA and a fine from his club. Beyond that there is no law that says he has to simply suck it up and take whatever comes his way.
I agree that as an adult he needs to acknowledge his responsibility and accept fully that his actions have led to this situation. But also as an adult it's up to him to do whatever he needs to do in order to make his life better, for himself and for his family. If he genuinely would be happier in Madrid then that's still his call to make and he'd be kind of daft to ignore the opportunity. When you make mistakes you don't suddenly have this obligation to beat yourself up and make your life as hard as possible. If you can make it better then do so. That's all you'd expect of anyone.
He's entitled to his opinion but most sensible fans (judging purely on his footballing ability and impacy on the pitch) would disagree.
ReplyDeleteEither way, it's ludicrous to say that this is some kind of insult to Dalglish, Barnes, etc...
Suarez is a skillful player, it's arguable whether he is the most skillful player Liverpool has ever had, I'd also throw Torres in his prime into that comparison.
ReplyDeleteHowever the player who has been the most important to Liverpool and lifted the team to greater heights is undoubtedly Steven Gerrard. Suarez is a selfish player and has spent almost as much time banned as on the pitch he doesn't compare to Gerrard in this regard.
but he was good enough for england ,politics dictated hie international carear imo
ReplyDeleteI can only say that you either have never seen macca play and have a very select memory.
ReplyDeleteSome of the goals that Macca scored were simply outrageous.
As for his time at Real, yes during his last year he become a bit part player, mainly due to Real buying the world, however he was twice voted the fans favourite player.
Remember this is when they had Zidane, Figo, Raul, Ronaldo etc at the club.
Jamie, I have to say we at last found some common ground, Barnes is a Legend and rightly so, his skill was unquestionably the best ever seen in an LFC shirt (imo), he had everything and every bit of Suarez's passion in addition, plus the added bonus of being consistent. He was electric, and even as he got older his loss of pace was never an issue as his skill and vision more than made up for it. Have to also remember Barnes was playing at a time when racism was rife in the game and crowd and yet he persevered and helped drive racism out and still continues to do so, it is also not just what he did on the pitch that makes him a Legend, but also the man behind the player and that is what will stop Suarez becoming a legend at LFC no matter how long he stays.
ReplyDeleteNow there is a controversy to play with the enemy or not ? He would have to be a bloody good mate to give him your spot. You would be mad not to have a go yourself even if it is with the scum. Go for the clinic mate and learn from the pros but if its just meeting the players let your mate do it but only if he wears a Liverpool shirt and watch him sweat. Melbourne sounds like it will be great and good on you for getting down there.
ReplyDeletelearning the trade with the enemy...that reminds of me Osama Bin Laden. Thanks Kal-El, but surely you could just simply fly over to Melbourne and watch Liverpool too?
ReplyDeleteWhat is Suarez going to do if he commits another scandal in Spain? Curse the Spanish media and retire from football?
ReplyDeleteI saw all of Macca's career, been supporting LFC for over 40 years, there's only one Macca goal which I think Suarez would have struggled to score ,he ran from our penalty box all the way to score was it Celtic? anyway, Suarez may not have had enough pace for that one, he didn't have Steve's stamina .
ReplyDeleteBut Suarez has me off my feet more than Macca ever did. That's the reason I have my opinion . This is not to decry his abilities; I simply think Suarez surpasses him as a player, though not as a man. Macca did disappear on a Bosman though, didn't exactly benefit LFC did it?
Macca scored a carbon copy of that goal against Aston Villa a few weeks later. Agree with you re goals scoreed, but in terms of creativity, assists and chance creation, McManaman is (IMO) ten levels above Suarez. With assists, it's a statistical fact.
ReplyDeleteOwen's best season : 18 goals in 30 games 4 assists
ReplyDeleteSuarez best season, 23 goals in 33 games 11 assists (LFC)
35 goals in 30 matches 17 assists (Ajax)
Torres' best season: 18 goals in 22 matches , 3 assists
Van Persie's best season: 30 goals in 38 games 14 assists
Mins per goal top 3 :Suarez (85) Torres (95) Van Persie(111)
Best goals ratio: Suarez
Most assists: Suarez
Not what you expected eh people?
Or complain about it for while and then go back to South America.
ReplyDeleteOnly on assists though, Macca didn't score that many, and he certainly isn't 10 x Suarez, or he would have 110 assists lol
ReplyDeleteDisagree. Macca always was sharp financially, and demanded wages on par with those he would get on a free. That's why the Barca and Juventus deals didn't happen. A bit mercenary in my view.
ReplyDeleteWasn't that simple thou.
ReplyDeleteMacca had 2 years left on his contract when Liverpool accepted the bid from barc, who at the time were also in negotiations with Rivaldo. Many suspected that Barc were not serious about the bid and were only doing it to make sure Rivaldo signed, this view was reinforced when barc subbed macca when he travelled to spain to meet them.
Also the bid from Juve was rejected by both Player and Club, he didn't even talk to Juve.
I found the press to be very negative towards macca during this period, such as accusing him of not having his heart in the game during his last half of the season at the club. What they never mentioned was that his mother died during this period after suffering from breast cancer which would effect anybodies game.
Both Evans and Houllier came out in Macca's defence regarding the move.
Like I said, it takes two to Tango.
thats why suarez made my top ten and owen and torres did not;-)
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand what you're saying, and I get why Suarez is upset, the bottom line is that he opened himself up for the criticism by acting in such a foolish way.
ReplyDeleteHe's been treated unfairly in the sense that the media and the FA have treated him differently than others (especially compared to Terry with the racism ordeal).
But the bottom line is that if he doesn't dive, play-act, punch, complain and (for crying out loud) bite, he's not going to be scrutinized nearly as heavily.
But this whole Real Madrid thing has been handled poorly from the outset. Any player would be crazy to turn down advances from Real Madrid, however the way he has gushed over them is insulting to everyone who is involved with Liverpool (organization and supporters alike). He could have done it in a classy manner, but instead he essentially "whored himself out" (for lack of a better phrase).
I am of the opinion that most LFC supporters will embrace him if he stays. I am not going to be most supporters. I hope he helps the team win if he's here, but it will take a lot of goodwill on his part for me to ever cheer for him as a player again.
Truth of the matter, if he sell him for 50m, he'll help the team win more that way since we will be able to spend the money on players who might actually appreciate the support of the club and its fans.
Didn't negate the fact that wages were the main stumbling block though. Or the fact that he decided not to stay after LFC had offered him a new contract, which he rejected.
ReplyDeleteLike I have said a few times now.. takes two to tango :)
ReplyDeleteFault lies at both Club and player
There is absolutely no way at all to determine how integral he was. The situation won't be the same next season as it was this season. First of all some players have been added to the squad. Replacing, e.g., Downing with someone better would change the entire set-up of the experiment. Furthermore the entire team will be more used to how Rodgers works, and the manager himself has learnt a thing or two, too. It can not be determined in a scientific way.
ReplyDeleteWe would have finished significantly higher than seventh this season, had it started in January.
Yeah, absolutely. Jaimie probably has never had anything to do with experiments. The setting has to be comparable.
ReplyDeleteI disagree entirely.
ReplyDeleteUhm, well, but Owen and Torres didn't effect the way we play? They both relied heavily on their pace and we played rather defensive counter-attacking with them in the team.
ReplyDeleteThis is all well and good, but, as in real life, if everyone around you cheats and you are the only one who doesn't, you may be the moral winner, but the overall loser. Being the moral winner won't pay you any bills. It is sad, and I am not happy with how thing are today, but they are like this.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I understand, it's hard to not be insulted by some of what has been said. However I would suggest that it's not his responsibility to be a likeable character, it's his job to be a good footballer. Suarez, if he stays, will continue to be the same quality footballer that he's always been. What he hasn't lived up to is some other expectation we've put on him as fans, because we love the club so sincerely and we kind of hope he does too. When it turns out he doesn't, we feel like we've been hurt by a friend, but in truth I don't think he was ever our friend.
ReplyDeleteLike most other players. Hardly anyone joins us, because of their life-long love for the club.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, this is just another way of enabling Suarez's behaviour. You're basically saying he can do whatever he wants as long as he's good on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteAs a highly paid employee of LFC, he has a duty to behave in a certain way as a Liverpool player. Whether it is implied or expressly stated, Suarez has an obligation to act professionally, and within the rules. Additionally, whether he, you, or anyone else likes it or not, footballers ARE role models for kids, and given his public status - and the fact that he represents a loved and respected institution like LFC - Suarez has to respect that, and act accordingly.
Players can't just selfishly contract out of those obligations at their own personal whim.
Suarez's job is to be an effective footballer AND a respectable ambassador for LFC. The same applies in any job. In the real world, the same obligations apply to most employees, i.e. acting in the best interests of the company, and not bringing your employer into disrepute.
It's no different for footballers, and fans making excuses like this just makes it easier for the likes of Suarez to get away with it.
Sorry, but that is nonsense. What you've described is arguably the exception, not the rule, but continued apathy and excuse-making like this will lead to it eventually becoming the rule.
ReplyDeleteMcManaman is a midfielder, not a striker, so Suarez should be scoring more goals. Also, those assist stats for Macca are inaccurate. They're from Wikipedia, but whoever compiled them is wrong. I'm working through every season review video from the 90s featuring Macca (every goal, all competitions), and I've already surpassed 142 assists.
ReplyDeleteDon't think that I misunderstood you. Just wanted to point out that Torres played like he doesn't want to play for us. The same cannot be said about Suarez, who, so far at least, doesn't seem to sulk on the pitch. Furthermore, I am against Torres, because he handed in a transfer request mere hours before the end of the transfer window.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with your point to some extent, and I certainly understand your point of view, which by and large is a very realistic one. Most fans can't comprehend the idea that a player doesn't love the club he's playing for that they love as well.
ReplyDeleteI think this one is a bit different than the normal case of the footballer though. Considering everything that Suarez has done, and taking into account how much the organization and fans stood by him through thick and thin, I have no problem with him seeking green pastures. What I do have a problem is with the way he has gone about doing it.
There's no denying his skill, and I am of the opinion that even if he stays, he will continue to give an all out effort.
Looking back on it, Suarez is not a classy player on the field. Perhaps it's naive of fans (like myself) to be a classy player off the field as well.
man i just hope coutinho learns from all this and doesnt stab us fans .......
ReplyDeleteSo he SHOULD have a vastly superior assist rate. Not likely to be, say 3 x Suarez' rate per season .
ReplyDeleteI think you can only appreciate how good Shaggy was when you read comments from his peers at Real Madrid. When he joined they thought, "Who is this guy", but after a couple of months they just gave him the ball . And he was MOM in a European Cup Final....
ReplyDeleteI voted "Yes".
ReplyDeleteSo kill me.
But Shaggy was never regarded as "World Class", whereas Suarez is conceivably in the top 5 best players in the World (currently). I can think of only Kenny, Owen (at his peak) and Gerrard who have ever been regarded by the media as World Class. Barnes wasn't (presumably because of our European ban). Yet I always thought Johnny Barnes was the best player in England by a country mile (certainly 88-90).
ReplyDeleteErgo, my long-winded point means that Suarez HAS to be in the top 4 LFC players of all time purely because of his status as World Class........ !!!
So there ;)
You,
ReplyDeleteJaimie,
The Daily Mirror,
Sky,
and Mancs......
We have a far better record without Suarez in the team than with him. I love watching Suarez play but at times he is very frustrating the way he loses the ball and often makes the wrong decisions in and around the box. I think if Sturbridge improves his work rate and fitness then he can replace him and become a better player for the team.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that at all, that's kind of an absurd over-extension. My point is directed at fans who may previously have developed a strong bond with Suarez, only to now feel betrayed when he expresses a desire to leave. That's an issue you yourself have brought up in the past. Fans get into this mindset of worshiping players, treating them like close valued friends, as if they represent something more than their achievements on the field. It's hero worship and it's not always logical. For me the way I view Suarez has always been as a footballer. I don't really care what he says in the media or what odd views or problems he has that don't relate to his actual performance on the pitch. I do care about his on-field behaviour but I'm not concerned with his personality, the look on his face when he disagrees with the ref or nonsense like that. I view him as a footballer and for me if he came back to Liverpool and performed at the same high standard I would still hold him in the same regard I've always held him. I don't expect him to be a nice guy or to love the club or to not say stupid things to the press so I'm not particularly disappointed when he doesn't live up to that standard.
ReplyDeleteYou and I clearly have a different point of view when it comes to what's good or bad for the club. I think Liverpool is a far bigger and more stable outfit than one that can be significantly de-stablised by the random rantings of Luis Suarez. I even think that although the way he speaks could be considered disrespectful, I don't actually think it's that important. All he's doing in complaining to the press and speaking his child-like mind. So long as he trains hard, plays well and does what is asked of him while doing his actual job then I really don't concern myself that much with his other nonsense.
Plus Torres and Owen did it consistently against the big teams, without biting or racially abusing other players
ReplyDeleteAs I said in my initial post in this thread, which is about a statement from Craig Johnston, I think this is about football playing ability, not what else a player brings with him. You are of course right, but Owen for instance was always seen as someone who put England before us and who didn't really play for us with his heart, at least by some people. Torres was sulking, something that show many bad effects, too.
ReplyDeleteWhen we had Owen and Torres, we played the big teams constantly, because we were in the Champions League. Now we are not. Hardly Suaréz's fault.
We have a far better record without Gerrard than with him, too. What does this tell us? It might be just not that easy to compare such stats, or Gerrard is overrated.
ReplyDeleteYes, Suaréz frustrates me, too with his ball-losing and some of his decision making, but then I think we should be fair, because Torres frustrated me equally with exactly the same things. And Sturridge frustrates me with his shoot-at-sight attitude, which, at times, can be seen as bad decision-making.
yes and the rest of the world, but thanks for that..
ReplyDeleteOh, puh-leeeeeease! "The Rest of the World" ???!!
ReplyDeleteI would dare to suggest that the rest of the world only see a hugely talented footballer, and don't tend to display some of the overly-bumptious opinions that our media (and the do-gooders who hang on their every word) display.
I would also dare to suggest that they all recognise that Luis Suarez was set-up for having the temerity to call a black man: a black man.
Pleasure.
That's nonesensical. Because the club are attempting to improve the squad, and the manager will have had his year's "practice". He was still important to LFC in his own era, and I would go as far as to say that he has been our most important player for 2 1/2 years.
ReplyDeleteCrap fashion sense, though. I sat behind him at Old Trafford once, and he had pinstripe trousers, and a yellow jacket with a parrot on the back. Jeez...
ReplyDeleteI think you should go.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, anyone who supports United cannot be a "mate". An acquaintance at best.
Secondly, if you get the chance to meet any Manc players you can get their autographs then try and decipher their spidery scrawl by asking who they are. Good for their egos....... ;)
so it was all a conspiracy dreamed up by the media, Man Utd, and everyone else who found hi behaviour shocking, and he didn't shame Liverpool football Club, or embarrass himself? then why did he apologise for it? anyway this was a story about a poll he is a great player, world class which is what i stated in my original post,don't change the subject, if you want an argument go the pub and bore them pleeeeeaaaassse!
ReplyDeleteTo keep our best players we need to be more successful. Otherwise they will leave as soon as a more successful club comes calling.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't aware I had changed the subject. You were the one who mentioned suspensions. I merely tried to make a point, albeit clumsy, that it was only England where there was such an outcry of mock-outrage. In my opinion the only embarrassing thing he has ever done was the bite. He was forced to apologise to Evra........
ReplyDeleteAfter all, do you only remember Zidane for a head-butt? Maradona as a drug addict rather than a genius? George Best as a womanising alky? Molby for drink-driving? Gerrard for a bar-room brawl (which he could/should have been sent down for) and a selection of two-footed lunges?? Souness, Ray Kennedy, Jimmy Case and Terry Mac for drinking binges and fisticuffs?
And your comment about being a bore kind of backs up my assertion that there are a lot of overly bumptious folk out there.
If you read my original post I said "how many will remember him for the suspensions etc." i didn't say i was one of them! and my reference to being a bore is I was bored with this tedious point scoring, it's like bumping into the wrong person in the pub who won't let it go, until they are "proved right" as for the players you mentioned i do remember them for being great players, but i always think of the drugs, the cheating, and it HAS stained their reputation, I love to watch genius footballers like Suarez but his behaviour has stained his name, and the Evra affair, why even mention any reference to Evra being black? the press did try to crucify him and you misunderstand if you think i agree with them, but without Suarez bad behaviour they would be no case to answer.
ReplyDeleteSorry George, but it's hard to let it go when nearly every article on this site is either about Suarez, or uses some tenuous link to denigrate him. I would imagine that if we ever get rid of Downing, the Liverpool-Kop headline will go along the lines of : "Downing and out. Stuart finally shipped back to the Midlands for 20k. God he was shit, but at least he wasn't Suarez......."
ReplyDeletePerhaps Mr Kanwar is the bore..... ???!! Just a thought.
I know I harp on, but that's because I feel a huge injustice was done. And everything that Suarez has done (on or off the pitch), and everything that has happened to Suarez stems (directly or indirectly) from that one incident, and from Evra's accusations.
respect m8,i defended Suarez on TeamTalk, i fought his corner against Spuds, Mancs, Chelsea fans, all of them, and i got slaughtered for it, the Evra accusations were nasty and i think he played the race card, but after all the effort of defending him, he decides to leave, hard to stomach, anyway, he is a class player but a manchild who cannot control himself, and maybe it's best he goes and becomes someone elses problem, i will miss his goals and his unpredictability. peace out!
ReplyDeleteVery well said!
ReplyDeleteWe even managed to fukk up the Mkhitrayan transfer, when he WANTED to sign for us cuz we want to sell Suarez first! Shanks and Paisley must be turning in their graves! (We'll be lucky to be even in Arsenals league the way things are going)
ooooh! This must hurt JK! 18 up arrows so far!
ReplyDeleteYes, because my life is defined by internet up-voting (!) People are entitled to their views. Doesn't bother me.
ReplyDeleteThis is stupid. It shouldn't hurt JK. As long as we respect opinions. Am sure, he is not thinking about me beyond forums nor am I. I think he must be a wonderful guy outside football. We may be differ in opinions about Suarez or anyone but that's because we are different individual. Nothing else. I wouldn't mind calling JK as my friend. :)
ReplyDeleteThis is the biggest pile of rubbish you've written on here for quite a long time - which really is saying something!!
ReplyDeleteIf everybody is entitled to their view, why do you spend so long belittling everyone that has an opposite opinion?!
Why do you delete my posts ? :putnam:
ReplyDeleteSince he is destined to leave LFC you say he is lower than other players that you are saying , Mcmanaman had a gr8 bunch of players to facilitate him , This season LFC would have been facing a relegation spot if suarez hadnt been here You Greedy DAMN
ReplyDeleteLampard scores more goals than gerrrard from midfield spot then he bcums better than gerrard ? Dont try making your stupid facts as a true fact
ReplyDeleteKeep on loading shit on this website carry on your Shit Work :) :D
ReplyDeleteI wasn't talking about YOU in particular but so many people agreeing that JK has some sort of Vendetta/Obsesion against Suarez. Of course it's nothing personal!! Good grief!
ReplyDeleteNo one can convince me that Barnes or McManaman were ever in a million years near as good as Stevie Highway.
ReplyDeleteI seem to remember that one of JB's knicknames was "Tarmac".
ReplyDeleteAs in, 'a black Heighway'......... :)