Former Liverpool midfielder Craig Johnston has stuck the knife into ex-Reds striker Fernando Torres, accusing the Spaniard of looking down on his team-mates during his time at Anfield.
In an interview earlier this week, Johnston - who won several league titles with Liverpool in the 1980s - hailed Luis Suarez for his 'animalistic' zeal on the pitch, and slated Torres. He told The Australian:
"Look at the contrast between him [Suarez] and Torres, who I call 'the incredible sulk'.
"He was supposed to be our Golden Boy but he carried on like he never wanted to be there; like the other players were beneath him, like, 'I'm not going to run for the ball because I've got blond hair and I'm too pretty and I'm a superstar"
Denigrating Torres seems to be in vogue at the moment. Indeed, last month, Jamie Carragher aired similar views about the Spain star. He told The Telegraph:
"Torres wasn’t the same player for about 18 months. [Before he left]. At times, he wasn’t giving his best on the pitch for Liverpool and that is why it was a mistake to keep him."
I think Carra, and particularly Johnston, are a little harsh on Torres. Irrespective of what went on behind the scenes, he scored a shedload of goals for the club, which, incidentally, was his primary role in the team.
Carra claims that Torres 'wasn't the same player' in his final 18 months at the club, but when it comes to effectiveness on the field, the stats do not wholly support this contention:
* 2009-10: 18 goals/3 assists in 22 league appearances. That is a formidable return, and if Suarez produced that, Reds fans would foaming at the mouth withhero worship appreciation.
* 2010-11: 9 goals/2 assists in 22 apps. Yes, Torres's effectiveness tailed off a little, but across the 18 months, his combined creative output was creditable: 29 goals/6 assists in 50 starts.
Not bad for a player who suffered a major knee injury in 2010. Clearly, there's strong evidence to suggest that Torres 'wasn't the same player' due to injury, rather than a negative attitude on the field.
Also, in the aftermath of Roy Hodgson's appointment, and LFC's ownership meltdown, who could blame Torres for wanting to leave Anfield? Things looked bleak, yet despite his obvious wish to leave, Torres still did his job and scored goals for the club, including 3 in his last four games.
In any event, as it turns out, Torres did Liverpool a massive favour by leaving; he gave the Reds the best years of his career, and as Chelsea have discovered, he'll never again recapture the magic that made him one of the world's best strikers.
Additionally, if Torres' £50m transfer fee had not been so negligently wasted by Liverpool, his departure could've been even more beneficial for the club. It's not his fault that Kenny Dalglish bought Andy Carroll with the bulk of the cash (!)
In my view, Torres was fantastic for Liverpool, and unlike Luis Suarez, he didn't brazenly prostitute himself in a desperate bid to leave the club.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
In an interview earlier this week, Johnston - who won several league titles with Liverpool in the 1980s - hailed Luis Suarez for his 'animalistic' zeal on the pitch, and slated Torres. He told The Australian:
"Look at the contrast between him [Suarez] and Torres, who I call 'the incredible sulk'.
"He was supposed to be our Golden Boy but he carried on like he never wanted to be there; like the other players were beneath him, like, 'I'm not going to run for the ball because I've got blond hair and I'm too pretty and I'm a superstar"
Denigrating Torres seems to be in vogue at the moment. Indeed, last month, Jamie Carragher aired similar views about the Spain star. He told The Telegraph:
"Torres wasn’t the same player for about 18 months. [Before he left]. At times, he wasn’t giving his best on the pitch for Liverpool and that is why it was a mistake to keep him."
I think Carra, and particularly Johnston, are a little harsh on Torres. Irrespective of what went on behind the scenes, he scored a shedload of goals for the club, which, incidentally, was his primary role in the team.
Carra claims that Torres 'wasn't the same player' in his final 18 months at the club, but when it comes to effectiveness on the field, the stats do not wholly support this contention:
* 2009-10: 18 goals/3 assists in 22 league appearances. That is a formidable return, and if Suarez produced that, Reds fans would foaming at the mouth with
* 2010-11: 9 goals/2 assists in 22 apps. Yes, Torres's effectiveness tailed off a little, but across the 18 months, his combined creative output was creditable: 29 goals/6 assists in 50 starts.
Not bad for a player who suffered a major knee injury in 2010. Clearly, there's strong evidence to suggest that Torres 'wasn't the same player' due to injury, rather than a negative attitude on the field.
Also, in the aftermath of Roy Hodgson's appointment, and LFC's ownership meltdown, who could blame Torres for wanting to leave Anfield? Things looked bleak, yet despite his obvious wish to leave, Torres still did his job and scored goals for the club, including 3 in his last four games.
In any event, as it turns out, Torres did Liverpool a massive favour by leaving; he gave the Reds the best years of his career, and as Chelsea have discovered, he'll never again recapture the magic that made him one of the world's best strikers.
Additionally, if Torres' £50m transfer fee had not been so negligently wasted by Liverpool, his departure could've been even more beneficial for the club. It's not his fault that Kenny Dalglish bought Andy Carroll with the bulk of the cash (!)
In my view, Torres was fantastic for Liverpool, and unlike Luis Suarez, he didn't brazenly prostitute himself in a desperate bid to leave the club.
Jaimie Kanwar
NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)
Carra who was with Torres each and every day of the week, says that his attitude wasn't right and that he wasn't giving 100% anymore. I don't understand why one wouldn't believe him.
ReplyDeleteAnd also, last time I checked Suarez is still a Liverpool player, so how has Torres 'left with comparative dignity' ??
If I'm honest to myself and everyone else, I have to say I miss the player Torres WAS for us. However, I'd still pick Suarez over him every day of the week without fail (Despite the fact I think he's a d*ck). The gulf in work rate between both players is immense. Also...... IF Suarez was to stay, I bet you a Crispy Cream doughnut he'll still have the same work-rate and dedication as he's always had despite what he may or may not have said. Torres on the other hand...Claimed he still loved the fans and wanted to stay for a long time, then.....
ReplyDeleteI also feel that there's too much bashing on Torres. He was a world class player at Liverpool and he got the serious injury. I think it's not right for him to change his attitude like what Carra said but I think it's also becos he felt the club let him down with their empty promises. Alonso, mascherano, Arbeloa etc left the club weakening it instead of strengthening of course he will feel cheated and disgruntled. Of course if he was an immaculate professional like Carra he should've kept his head in it but its hard. I think the Chelsea deal was good for us and the thing that made it ugly was his comments when he left and going to a "bigger" club etc that irked a lot of fans. He didn't have to say all that and take a swipe at liverpool and it's fans that supported him wholly.
ReplyDeleteJohnston's observations are the same that I have made. It has to be mentioned, that one Steven Gerrard, at times, also seemed to behave slightly like that, though.
ReplyDeleteI miss El Nino
ReplyDeleteI didn't say I don't believe him. My point is even if there was some problem behind the scenes (and I state this in the article), Torres (for the most art) still did the business on the field.
ReplyDeleteTo be fair Torres didn't publically come out and say he wanted to go, it was all done in private, nothing said to the media etc unlike Suarez if he does goe. But I do agree that Torres' effort wasn't at the same level near the end of his Anfield career, even though he still did score goals his performances lacked the previous passion and commitment he'd shown. I also agree Suarez would still try his best if he stays. Either way neither behaviour is appropriate (regardless of whether Suarez stays or not).
ReplyDeleteWe all know his dickhead excuse for a journo is blinded with his man crush on 'el niño". Another flawed article
ReplyDeleteYeah right. 2 European titles + FA Cup already in his almost 2.5 seasons at Chelsea. Hahahaha mr johnston(ed). Liverpool hasn't even qualified for europe for Christ sake despite spending close to 200 m pounds off-late. Wanna c ur face when the so called loyal suarez also shows his back to the club. Reds are a joke.
ReplyDeleteSeriously who cares. Torres is the past. Would we take him back? No. Let's move on.
ReplyDeleteTorres drove me mad at times when he was still with us. He seemed to be a very selfish player. Suaréz, too, drives me mad at times, but not the same way as Torres.
ReplyDeleteI agree that if Suarez stays, and as yet there are no offers so it's a distinct possibility, he will continue to be our hardest working player. Yes, his recent comments re. Real are annoying, and yes he's easy to criticise, but he never leaves anything behind on the pitch. He's also got one eye on next year's World Cup, so unlike Tevez or Balotelli, I don't see him sulking. To be fair to Torres, he didn't complain too much, and he still scored a few goals, but his heart wasn't in it. I don't think it was a conscious choice on his part, but more of a character flaw. He was disappointed by what was happening around him, and was unable to raise his game; he wasn't shit, but he wasn't the Torres we signed either. To be fair, most of use were also disappointed by what was happening at the time.
ReplyDelete15 goals in 82 EPL matches for Chelsea and you are missing what exactly?
ReplyDeleteHe "... still did the business on the field, and as a fan, that's all that matters. He did his job, attitude problem or not..."
ReplyDeleteSo why isn't the same reasoning applied to Suarez (who gets constantly criticized on this blog)?
Really he did his job??? After World Cup he was not the same and that's why Carra was saying. He went from becoming injury prone at LFC to never been injured at CFC. You talk about role models, well you are one outside or inside the pitch. How can someone loose all that goal scoring ability after so called joining a "bigger" club with better players? Stop taking sides JK!!! And this is coming from a fan that will take El Nino back and who's team was cheated by Suarez in the World Cup. And I don't like how CJ airing all our bizness. Carra was very careful on our to approach his comment.
ReplyDelete2 things - Competing in Europe and winning silverware
ReplyDeleteFrom the Bench!!
ReplyDeleteSome of what Suarez does on the pitch shouldn't be done the pitch.
ReplyDeleteWhich Torres would not have been able to give us anyway...
ReplyDeleteYou lost the right to an opinion when you did an interview for the Republik of Mancunia who sell Heysel T-shirts.
ReplyDeleteIf I saw my son biting another kid on a football pitch he will never be allowed back on it again. That I can assure you. Imagine how embarrassing that would be!
ReplyDeleteSuarez is a great player but also his his own worst enemy. If he stays he will score loads of goals, if he goes we will be better off without him.
40-50 million and we can replace him no problem.
"Unlike SUAREZ,he didn't brazenly prostitute himself in a desperate bid to leave the club" JK whether you hang on a street corner or become a masseuse who provides extras you're still selling yourself!
ReplyDeleteA pity that Luis the X-rated can't allegedly handle a few paparazzis
ReplyDeleteJoking aside, I want him gone.
Not sure how the media in Spain will treat him any differently if he bites a player in a La Liga match.
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me Luis has been planning his exit from Anfield for a while now.
We signed him from Ajax while he was banned from playing from them and he could very well leave us while still being banned in the EPL.
Makes his exit a lot easier.
Lol. Really? i think he scored in Amsterdam plus won the corner kick which Drogba converted in munich. Psst.
ReplyDeleteThat's Torres with Chelsea. Not Liverpool
ReplyDeleteHe won nothing with us. What difference would he have made if he stayed?
ReplyDeleteTorres whole on pitch body language was awful or the last 18 months and he could not shake it off at Chelsea, you see one cant turn those things on and off, he put himself on a downer and co8ulnt get out of it.
ReplyDeletebetter than just the Carling Cup mate
ReplyDeleteI would still Suarez prostituting himself early in the transfer window than Torres last min transfer request.
ReplyDeleteJamie what do you think of a mayor and city council that take a self inflicted millstone from around everton fcs neck (finch farm) then borrow 13 million pounds to pay for it, they tell nobody until it is all done then let everton stay and lower evertons rent. the mayor is of course an evertonian - what a joke and now he is going to get them a new ground.
ReplyDeleteif it was Liverpool !!!
You are clearly blind then Jamie anyone who saw Torres perform up to his transfer don't need anyone to tell them what the score was with this player he didn't want to know and would stand and sulk on the pitch it was there for everyone to see He got his move and we moved on simple as that who came out best well I wouldn't swap what we have now for him put it that way
ReplyDeleteSeems like you make a habit of contradicting yourself "Torres (for the most part) still did the business on the field, and as a fan, that's all that matters. He did his job, attitude problem or not." ..... Surely Suarez has been Fantastic for Liverpool also attitude problem or not
ReplyDeleteI agree with you in that I do understand why Torres left when he did but handing in a sudden transfer request in a bid to force a transfer to one of our biggest rivals....hardly the most dignified way to depart... By the way he neither set his transfer fee nor cared how much it was.
I don't really have any hard feelings against Torres! Around the time he left I did but, that was mainly because we were losing a great player. He had a torrid 12 months after he left us so that has taken away any resentment I had for him. I do think he wasn't trying too hard for us before he left though, and even if he did score a few goals that's like saying a keeper saved a few shots it doesn't mean he was giving his all!
ReplyDeleteThere's no real proof of Torres' alleged attitude problem. People claim he 'sulked' on the field etc, but that is subjective. With Suarez, everything is overt, and the problems he causes are huge and easily discernible.
ReplyDeleteWhat problems did Torres cause? What damage did he do to LFC? What specific evidence is there of this alleged attitude problem?
your name and your comment is an even bigger joke mate cheers ^^
ReplyDeletewe just need to give him a mouth guard that will solve all our problems ! he cant bite with it nor open his mouth to speak ^^ biting and racism problems solved pronto !
ReplyDeleteI thought Liverpool fans like the history museum. Ah I see, depends for what purpose
ReplyDeleteyeah he for the amount we pay him and the amount he getts banned not worth it at times ........ 45 million would be a good deal ..... and rodgers does have a good eye for attacking talent [ he needs to get carra on board for defensive coach though...... still no defensive replacement and dont go to toure that guy is just back up at the most]
ReplyDeletebarca newspapers will heckle him ..... even aspas managed to get an article on both madrid and barca papers for his headbutt ........ and also real are famous for cutting their losses as it is those real fans pissed off with that chief executive whtshisname perez or something ........if suarez does more rubbish they will heckle both of them .....
ReplyDeleteyeah we keep old good for nothing thrash like you and your comments there ........for all to see how outdated thrash was once in its prime ...... come up with new insults mate ur a disgrace to your peers
ReplyDeletehe left for a strong premier league rival. IMO is the wrongest thing u can do. suarez will never leave liverpool for any club in the PL, not city, not chelsea and certainly not united. suarez loves liverpool whereas torres just wants glory. suarez reason for leaving is not against the club but the media and the way they harrass him. torress left because he believed chelsea were better which is wrong IMO
ReplyDeleteThere's no real proof of Torres' alleged attitude problem. People claim he 'sulked' on the field etc, but that is subjective. With Suarez, everything is overt, and the problems he causes are huge and easily discernible.
ReplyDeleteWhat problems did Torres cause? What damage did he do to LFC? What specific evidence is there of this alleged attitude problem?
No contradiction. Torres's alleged attitude problem didn't manifest itself in an discernible way on or off the field. There may have been problems in the dressing room, but we don't know that, and it doesn't matter anyway as it didn't spill onto the field or into the press.
ReplyDeleteSuarez's issues are very public and easily discernible.
Please drop the snide comments and just stick to civil discussion. If you're just here to snipe then you'll end up banned.
ReplyDeleteThey just got rid of one fire-starter in Mourinho!
ReplyDeleteThey probably want some serenity in Madrid at the moment, the Madridistas, after the Mourinho period.
But me thinks Suarez will calm down somewhat at Real, as he will be where he wants to be it seems.
last 6 months he did look like he couldn`t be bothered, but for the whole 18months I would disagree with Carra. For the 12months before he was still completely epic. His style is totally different from Suarez and Torres has never been a player to be running all over the shop, but he didn`t need to be. Rafa told him to get in the 6 yard box and around there as much as possible as thats where goals come from, and it worked. He scored a bucket load. Its not6 by chance that when Rafa went to Chelsea Torres scoring rate once again picked up. He has said openly that Rafa is the only manager he has had that understood how to play him. Clearly he isn`t Torres of old, and he did sulk last 6 months, but for the time before that he was top notch.
ReplyDeleteThe way he has (failed to) got on at Chelsea for most of his time there, has sort of somewhat relaxed my negative outlook on his last few months at us. I don't know, seems liked he was going through bit of a long rut that effected him both here and Chelsea. He does seem like someone who lets things get to him mentally and doesn't deal with it all that well, going by his demeanor on the pitch. Merely massively speculating I know. Maybe the problem period here and the problem period at Chelsea may not be as linked as they think they are.
ReplyDeleteBut as you said yourself, "we do not care about the problems, but just about performance" ;)
ReplyDeleteI wasn't trying to defend Suarez... But if you care only about performance, then you should "love" Suarez...
For me both Suarez and Torres are mercenaries... I cannot understand what glory these modern footballers get in leaving their team for another one to get a European Cup... Why not fight with their team (in my ideal football world there would be no transfer :) )?
P.S. the biting incident was funny as hell... I cannot understand people's overreaction to this. As far as I am concerned, I found Suarez' comments about Madrid far more "shocking"...
Funny or not, biting had no place to be part of a performance on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteYou have a son, that worries me?
ReplyDeleteAlso if your son bit someone on the field, i'm sure after a little apology and maybe a grounding, all would be forgiven. Lets not forget they are boys after all. Typical fan reasoning.
Carra is right. Many people say Torres' form only dipped 6 months before he left. But I also thought he had not been the same player for 18 months. The ''same player'', as in one of if not arguably the, best striker in the world (only for two seasons). He wasn't playing at the same level but he was still good enough to score goals. His actual finishing didn't suffer too much. The difference was in his overall play. When he started off he was very strong and powerful, he seemed to thrive on the physical side of the English game. He closed down really intently and worked hard for the team off the ball. In the last 18 months he started getting pushed around more and more, he didn't want to battle (which you must do against certain sides). His hold up play greatly deteriorated. The intensity of his play fell.
ReplyDeleteStats are useful but don't tell the whole story. If you argue against this go watch every Liverpool game Torres played in and it will be obvious.
Well maybe you can raise your child as a cannibal that is if you have one.
ReplyDeleteSorry but your way of thinking is like an animals. Were you raised in the wild?
Carragher, his team mate at that time, says that there was a problem with his attitude. That's all you need to know. There's no reason for him to lie, we don't need any proof.
ReplyDeleteWhen a guy has a bad attitude and feels he's superior to his team mates, it creates a bad atmosphere in the team and inevitably it reflects on the team's performances on the pitch. Btw, the 18 months Carra is referring to coincide with one of our worst periods as a team in terms of results (finished 7th, Rafa's worst season with us + the Hodgson era)
No, that's not 'all I need to know', and please don't tell me what to think. I'll make up my own mind based on what I see, not what someone else tells me.
ReplyDeleteFrom where I'm standing, Torres' alleged attitude problem made minimal difference to his effectiveness on the field. I've shows that in the article (18 goals in 20 league starts in 2009-10, for example.
If he had a problem in the dressing room, what do I care? It didn't spill onto the pitch, so as a fan, why should I worry about it?
He may have put in less effort in his last few months, but that is chicken feed compared to the problems Suarez causes.
If you want to have opinions spoonfed to you by others then be my guest.
You are again right, if you bite someone, even as a kid must mean you love the taste of human flesh. But seriously you are 13, right?
ReplyDeleteI don't just care about performance. I care about how players represent LFC in their capacity as players. Torres did zero damage to LFC's reputation; he created no ridiculously negative headlines; he didn't cheat/bite/stamp etc and sully the club's name, and if he had an attitude problem, there was minimal evidence of it.
ReplyDeleteIf a player is a nightmare behind closed doors (and that doesn't spill out into the media) but does the business on the pitch, that's fine with me.
Why do you not go ask your mommy how old I am.
ReplyDeleteYou know my mum? I will give her a call now!
ReplyDeletePlease stop this bickering. Thanks.
ReplyDelete"Well maybe you can raise your child as a cannibal that is if you have one."
ReplyDeleteAnd Suarez will be blamed, not "you"???
As far as I'm concerned, my boy loves Suarez, but he will never bite anyone (male that is)... When I was a kid, my idol was Maradona, but I've never scored any goal with my left hand and have never tried to do so...
If you see a dog on the street biting another dog then that is normal.
ReplyDeleteWhat is not normal and should not be tolerated is when you see a human young or old biting another human.
According to Gerrard, the owners tried to get him to change his mind on leaving for a few weeks before he decided to put the final nail in the coffin and put in the transfer request. He what he did to push for a exit (and probably lost out on some bonus for resorting to using a transfer request). It didn't come out of nowhere, his desire to leave. Probably was well known to the hierarchy a good few months that he wanted to leave. The club knew well before he put in the request, that he wanted to leave.
ReplyDeleteSuarez is pushing for a move too, albeit more publicly. If he doesn't get his way, he'll probably put in a transfer request too. Doesn't matter if he does it in a earlier fashion than Torres, as in both cases, the club knew both players want/ed to leave well before the request happens.
I don't see the big deal in Torres putting in a transfer request so late, when it was known to the club that he wanted to leave a few weeks before that.
It is abnormal... I agree (that's why it was funny)...
ReplyDeleteBut it was benign... You guys treat it like the worst thing since the plague...
When Mr. JD bites someone it's ok. When Mr. LS bites someone it's not ok...
When a doberman bites a dog it's ok... When a German sheperd bites a dog, then it's a scandal. The alpha dog has to get involved and all...
just can,t get enough just can,t get enough of louis suarez
ReplyDelete' You guys treat it like the worst thing since the plague...'
ReplyDeleteI treat it in the context that it is in. Which is a football game. A bite has no place on the football pitch. So obviously there will be backlash, especially with a serial offender like Suarez. Masch once said:"football is a sport for men, not those who want to bite." Benign or not, funny or not, there is no place for biting on the football pitch.
'When Mr. JD bites someone it's ok. When Mr. LS bites someone it's not ok...'
Defoe didn't get as much as furore as Suarez predictably did from the public and media but he did get quite a bit, so it wasn't ok. As for the FA, they are a lost cause as they are always changing the goal posts and hardly known for setting and abiding by reliable precedents.
Torres was truly great for us but from viewing from the USA, I agree with Carra that Torres was not the same during his last 12-18 months. He showed nearly zero hustle never, ever, passed the ball. I realize a strinker is not ususally about passing, but great ones know the balance line betwen selfish and team play. Sometimes 1 extra pass when you really have no effective shot is the right play; he didn't do that very often. Good riddance..
ReplyDeleteThere is no one quite deluded as you . Torres left for a rival club? You know what that means, do you?
ReplyDeleteHe wanted to come back and score goals at Anfield every season against the club you "support"?
If a player leaves for a club in another league it's a different thing, you could say the player wanted to try something new.
I do agree it was good to sell him, and not so good wasting money on unproven player, but you can not disrespect Suarez no matter how you hate him. You can not compare wanting to go to Real or wherever outside the league with Torres's leaving for Chelsea. It was direct message to us that he considered Chelsea better club than LFC.
Xabi also left us for Real (what Suarez might, or might not do), but I don't see you writing nonsense about him.
i'd rather have someone who is honest with his feelings than someone who continuously says he will stay and then leaves
ReplyDeleteThe last 4-5 months of Torres at liverpool, was painful to watch. He wasn't giving 100%. Everybody could see that. His move to chelsea didnt materialise in the summer, so he sulked. As for Suarez, he hasn`t got an attitude, he has an unbelievable will to win and when it isn`t going to plan he sees red. One thing is for sure. If suarez has to stay,he will give 100%. Not like Torres.
ReplyDeleteCarra would know more than anybody. He was at close quarters, with these players, week in, week out. We as joe public only have the press to feed off. Either way, you cant expect to keep, world class strikers if you arent in the top 4.
ReplyDeleteThe thing with Suarez is he is giving us 3 months to find a replacement while in contrast to Torres who gave us 3 days.
ReplyDeleteBut, if the club knew it well in advance, why did we make that knee-jerk signing Andy Carroll?
ReplyDeleteIt's so much preferable for a player to publicly say he wants to stay , raise his game for a match against his eventual new employer, then drop a transfer request into the equation 3 days before the transfer deadline.
ReplyDeleteThat last little spurt 3 in 4 games wouldn't have been to boost his chances of a transfer would it? that leaves 6 goals in 18 previously. Hardly prolific. Plus very little effort to my eyes compared to how he used to play
Who knows, who knows how complicated or 'spider-web-bby' were behind closed doors. I don't think it was knee-jerk, at least not the decision to choose him. I think Henry if is to be believed, he said Carroll was on no.1 on our shortlist for the next summer anyway. Even without Gerrard's comments, I always found it hard to believe that the club didn't know about the strength of Torres's strong desire to leave until very late. A transfer request doesn't just pop out of nowhere, there is always I would have thought a strong element of discontent prior to a player resorting to doing such a formal thing. I don't believe for a second that what happened on the last day of the transfer window happened out of nowhere and short notice. It can happen but from the circumstances and snippets of info, it seemed it was on the cards for a short while at least, imo.
ReplyDeleteSuarez is doing his best regardless of acts of stupidity where as Torres held a lot of Liverpools hopes and let the team down with his attitude.
ReplyDeleteAlso his last minute transfer request really threw everything into chaos not that he cared as a result the club paid ridiculous money for a donkey.
I agree with Craig whole heartedly.
‘They didn’t want to sell Fernando. They spent the last few weeks trying to keep him. But when a player makes his mind up, you can’t stand in his way.' - Gerrard
ReplyDeleteThe transfer request may have been last minute but the desire to leave wasn't and it was known to the owners that he wanted to leave.
Saurez is contracted to score goals which he does effectively, his contract does not say anything about stopping for a bite when he feels hungry.
ReplyDeleteI don't know, you might like to read a different take on things that I came across :
ReplyDeletehttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sid_lowe/02/03/fernando.torres/index.html
English journo who covers La Liga for Guardian, Sports Illustrated, etc and has a decent rep among British La Liga fans. Doesn't necessarily go along with my said/implied narrative fully but it is a take/version on it that doesn't make either party (Torres and our owners) to be angels, although does somewhat take some of the weight off Torres' and put some of it on the owners/club.
I don't think the problem with Torres was his attitude but more his injuries! He looks the same if not worse at Chelsea than his last season at us, I think maybe he does not trust his body the same as in his first 2 seasons. Anyway he's gave me some of the best memories I've had at anfield and will never forget his goal against arsenal in the champions league! I'd have him in his prime any day over a diving, biting, disloyal racist!
ReplyDeleteMy opinion of torres' last season for us is that he'd had enough, and under roy hodgson something was badly wrong, i felt his lack of desire is one of the reasons that hodgson failed, i'd love to sit with the writer of this article and watch a load of torres games under roy hodgson compared to some under benitez, then ask you to write this article again.
ReplyDeleteCarra was spot on.
But, i still love torres and hope he stays at chelsea, just to see what mourinho can achieve with him, even watching him today i feel he can be dangerous, he just needs something to fire him up
Jaimie, you need to stop basing everything on stats. Judging a players attitude cannot be backed by statistics. It can be justified by the people who worked close to him, aka Carra.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, Carra knows best, regardless is Torres packed in lots of goals.
Maybe if his attitude was better, he could have scored a lot more and helped the team
I don't understand why the comparison has to be made all the time. We know already how you feel about Suarez and that is difficult for you to accept that others don't agree with you. The subject here was Torres and I, for one, despise the man for not giving his all anymore and the leaving to go to a rival English team. Should Suarez leave for Chelsea or Citeh, I will feel the same about him. Your stat for his last six months show that he couldn't be bothered anymore. Sure he'd had a surgery but he'd also been found fit enough to play again. All that said, we got a lot of money which allowed us to buy Suarez so that's fine by me. Shame we wasted the rest of his transfer sum.
ReplyDeleteI could tell there was something bothering Torres in his last season with Liverpool. He didn't do the business in his final season. I thought it had to do with recovering from his injury, because his drive and motivation wasn't there. He scored those two amazing goals vs Chelsea and his finals days he was on a mini goal scoring run, and I thought Torres would go back to his old self. But if you look at his overall style, it didn't change, and hearing from Carragher that he was sulking on the pitch, I can see that from Torres. Especially when he didn't get a call from the ref, it would affect his motivation in the game.
ReplyDeleteIts all about moving on. The way people still talk about Suarez biting someone, and how it should never happen on a field blah blah blah are a bunch of whiners. It happened, so deal with it. Biting Ivanovic shouldn't affect the rest of his life with negativity, instead look to the positive, hopefully this will ground his mind with how he conducts himself on the pitch, and in turn come out an even better player. But of course, people will always hold onto resentment, and criticism, that's how football is run these days. I for one think that Suarez will be conduct himself better in the future. Everyone reaches a point in there life where maturity rises. Some people realizes it later than others.
ReplyDeleteIt is very simple, accept it or not, LFC 'wasted' insane amount of money under dalglish, hodgson and now rodgers. Blaming Torres won't solve a dime. He went coz he could see where the club was heading. Yes he was way below par when he turned blue, but last season was average by his standards. 20+goals and trophies too. Same thing with Ashley Cole when he left Arsenal. 2 examples where players made the choice that was unpopular with the fans but paid rich dividends to the player's individual career. Torres bashing won't help, he's already proved his point when he said 'Bigger Club'. He can easily show off his trophies since he turned blue, but he doesn't coz he still loves Reds. Like it or dislike it, but that's the fact. It's not as if Liverpool didn't splash the cash. It did, but is Anfield really the place where Football's latest stars want to play? I doubt. And that's what's hurting. It's not about Torres or Suarez
ReplyDeleteJaimie sir, Torres might have scored a few goals, but he might have scored a lot more had the application being there. His walking around within feets of an opposition with the ball was evident for all to see. Even Harry Rednapp highlighted as such. I was frustrated with Torres prior to Harry's comments. I agree Suarez is a package, and he creates a lot of issues at times, but he fights his hart out on the pitch. Carra was spot on, if we keep LS he will continue to apply himself, unlike Torres. Having said that, I would rather get the 45m for lim and cut him lose.
ReplyDeleteHis teammates saying he sulked and had an attitude problem is not enough proof? They were on the pitch with him. They were in the dressing room with them. I'd expect they know what they're talking about.
ReplyDeleteThe point is, why does this matter? So what if Carra says he 'wasn't the same player for the last 18 months' - this barely affected his performance on the pitch.
ReplyDeleteHow can a a player who scores 18 goals in 20 Premier League games be deemed 'not the same player'? Even if that's true to some degree, Torres' job was to score goals, and in 2009-10 he did that.
In his final season, he didn't score as many, but he was recovering from a serious knee injury, so that would've made a difference. Yes, he may have reduced his workrate due to knowledge he was leaving, but he still scored goals.
An alleged attitude problems are (IMO) irrelevant if:
* It doesn't manifest itself on the pitch
* Doesn't cause the club problems
* Doesn't create negative media pressure
* Doesn't affect the team's results/performances.
Torres is one player. He can't be held responsible for LFC's crap form between 2009 and 2011.
I don't base everything on stats, but a striker's job is to score goals, and if he's doing that, then most other things are irrelevant. For example, if a striker scored 30 goals a season, I couldn't care less if he doesn't track back, or doesn't run 50 miles a game.
ReplyDeleteA so-called 'attitude problem' only matters if it negatively impacts the team or the club overall.
In Torres' case, his alleged 'attitude problem' had practically zero negative impact. Only in his last few months did his goal-record begin to fade (comparatively). Why is this given precedence over the previous 3.5 years of superb goalscoring?
If Torres's attitude problem have a negative impact on LFC, please provide specific examples of this.
It's different with Suarez; the club has specifically suffered as a result of his attitude problem (bans; negative publicity; reputation damage etc)
The credibility of this guys comments went out the window when he said "I've got blond hair and I'm to pretty."
ReplyDeleteSorry, but the idea that it's 'difficult' for me to accept that others don't agree with me on Suarez is complete and utter nonsense.
ReplyDeleteI don't care if people agree with me or not. That's the point. I'm not trying to change peoples' views on Suarez. Repeating the same view several times does not mean the person doing so finds it difficult to accept that others disagree. There are certain principles that underpin the views expressed on this site, and I repeat the views (in various ways) that compound those principles.
For example, two of these principles are:
* Zero tolerance on cheating, and:
* Criticism of anything that damages the name. standing or reputation of LFC.
As such, various articles will reference the above, which is why Suarez is often cited.
This site has a specific editorial voice, and principles such as the above are part of that voice. I don't just write stuff randomly; there's a method to the madness.
I don't really understand what point you are trying to make here? Torres did get a sulk on, and is generally quite sulky. That is all the article is about. There is nothing about Chelsea, you are just trolling for the sake of it, but doing a pretty bad job.
ReplyDeletehow dare u use the name of our saviour to spread rubbish u should be ashamed
ReplyDeletehahahaha!!
ReplyDeleteSorry?
ReplyDeleteOk
ReplyDeleteThere is a problem with that, which is the damage lack of application has on other team members. This is the one area you seem to over look Jaimie . The impact negative attitue has on the rest of the team. It is a team sport and effort after all, is it not? I would like to highlight that others were scoring goals also (Kurt). 9 goals for a stricker, carrol was around that also. Coming of a serious knee injury, I don't remember the concussion he received. The truth is, Torres lacked hart towards the end and he showed it. No one is bigger than the shirt even with his impressive record against the lesser teams. What did Toress win for liverpool?
ReplyDeleteIf someone is going to bring up Suarez and the context is appropriate, than it is perfectly fine to bring up recent past acts. Deal with it, people are going to bring up negative posts regarding your beloved Suarez, if it is relevant. Whining? Pffft. More like being relevant to the discussion at hand in this part of the thread, which is JK comparing Torres v Suarez, in terms of behaviour, etc.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe you didn't notice him moping round the pitch like he didn't want to be there for his final year or so at the club. His workrate was a disgrace! Yes he still had a decent goal return but that's because he was still happy to claim the glory and put the ball in the net. When it came to chasing down defenders or sprinting for balls into the channels etc hhe just wasn't bothered and that's inexcusable.
ReplyDeleteI fully agree that Torres cannot be held responsible for all that was wrong but he was part of the problem. His own team mates have said that his behaviour affected the dressing room and as such, the team. Clearly there was a lot more wrong than just his attitude but it's not that it's ok just because he scores goals.
ReplyDeleteOr a madness to the method? :-) Let's be straight here though, you do tend to include one or several digs at what you see as Suarez "enablers" in your articles as well. In this one, it's the fact that you use the words "hero worship". Those words imply a certain lack of objectivity on the part of said Suarez enablers because that's a prerequisite for hero worship. There are other posts in which you do the same. That's fine. You can write whatever you want of course and anyone visiting this blog should respect that as they should respect anyone's opinion who posts it here. But let's not pretend you don't fail to understand why people appreciate Suarez in spite of his temper.
ReplyDeleteCalling someone a 'hero worshipper' or an 'enabler' is not insulting, and if someone takes offence that those terms then they seriously need to grow a thicker skin, especially in light of the actual abuse hurled by people online.
ReplyDeleteIn my experience, many Suarez enablers *do* lack objectivity when it comes to him, so there's nothing wrong with highlighting that.
I do not 'fail to understand' why people appreciate Suarez in spite of his issues. It's easy to understand (Gives 100%; fights for the shirt; passionate; will to win; top quality player etc), but those reason are not enough to ignore the problems he causes.
I didn't say it was insulting but you could write the very same article without having a dig.
ReplyDeleteYou obviously don't know Jaimie enough. He can't...
ReplyDeleteWell they did so live with it.
ReplyDeleteNo.
ReplyDeleteYou don't know for sure that they didn't know till late, unless you knew what went on behind closed doors. Unless we know for sure, I'll question it as much as I like, regardless of your so-called advice of 'live with it'.
ReplyDeleteAnd you do NOT have a zero tolerance to cheating. Otherwise, you wouldn't have previously stated " Rare bouts of cheating aside, Neville is a solid professional"
ReplyDeleteMy post pointing out that you said that was deleted. And you apparently added the word "rare" after my deleted post too.
Your *zero* tolerance is targeted and subjective.. it's certainly *absolute zero* in relation to a certain no 7
neither do you to the contrary so dont try that rubbish cut the drivel accept the popular belief or reported belief and get on with ya life
ReplyDeletewell cut the ravings god cant u just answer something in 1 or 2 sentences its like diahorrea and i never edited it so get ya facts straight
ReplyDeletei didnt edit it so get ya facts straight also i will question drivel u seem do to appear lots when the word crosses my mind,
ReplyDeleteI see your other post was deleted, by whom I won't guess. Not surprised, considering the content. Anyway, you did edit the original post but seeing as you can't even admit to doing such a minor thing, I don't want anything more to do with you and BS as your a sly piece of work on here. Question all you like, I ain't going to respond. Adios.
ReplyDeleteMy reply to this is in moderation, as probably because it contained (admittedly, pettily) unpleasantness to counter yours. Ah your other post was deleted but you will probably deny having made said post. Anyway, the point of said reply was that seeing as you can't even admit to such a small thing as well as your general demeanor, I shall not respond to anymore of your comments, regardless of how much you try to immaturely question. Adios.
ReplyDeletewho cares what u do just stop dribblin on and on
ReplyDelete'who cares what u do' - Greg implies he doesn't care what I say or write
ReplyDelete'just stop dribblin on and on' - Greg, despite implying he doesn't care, says I should stop dribblin on.
No doubt he will edit his post once again. So apologies if this reply doesn't fit the narrative in a short while.
whatever u do we dont see only your ravings here get it and dont go on about something that never happened thats a good boy.
ReplyDeleteGreg - quit the backbiting. If you can't remain civil then don't post at all. Thanks.
ReplyDeletei think i,ll believe carra before you ,,,,cause all you talk about is stats and crap that you believe are true if carra tells me something different than you i,ll take his word for it,,
ReplyDeletehe started it and i am only stating the truth tell him
ReplyDeletethats a lie but i see u changed your name to guest on a post chad
ReplyDeleteWho the hell in this world cares abt non sense comments here go somewhere and have some DOMAr
ReplyDeleteDid you work as a secret Lover to any of the liverpool players or what keep shitting here in this Gud website will all your comments
ReplyDeleteYou dont know a shit about Liverpool Agree ???
ReplyDeleteA saviour turns into Evil now ? plastic Fan
ReplyDeleteIdiots Idiots Everywhere
ReplyDeleteYour Management is a Such a POOP Lol , Treat Everyone like your slaves and say u will get banned u will get banned just like a kid Pota
ReplyDeleteJust go and tighten your nets you nuts , make sure ur belly doesnt go for jelly dance haha !! Just Kidding !!!
ReplyDelete"imagine how embarrassing that would be" so its not the bite that concerns you or the victim, its how you feel socially. Cant leave your house, have to leave the area because of the social stigma, nice parenting!
ReplyDeleteSuarez bought a bit of excitement to the field. And Torres well spits and spats. Suarez was marked and what about the instigator of the bite gets of with nothing. Absolute crap. I have been on the receiving of bites and more I may have pushed over the line a bit to cop them, but I never ran to the referee " Oh refy refy he bit me I am gonna cry now" What a sook Ivanovic.
ReplyDelete