1 Jun 2013

Prem Fail? - Nicol fears LFC 'projects' could hurt Reds' CL chances. Agree...?

Liverpool legend Steve Nicol has admitted that he has serious reservations about the club's current transfer policy, and he's urged FSG to cut the cheapskate act and spend some 'real money' on 'proven players'.

Discussing last night the Reds' alleged €9m deal for Celta Vigo attacker Iago Aspas, Nicol seemed less than impressed with his old club's policy of buying young, cheap, inexperienced players. He told ESPN:

"This [the Aspas deal] really just spells out the future of Liverpool.

"It doesn’t look like they’re going to go out and splash a lot of money on proven quality.

"If they want to challenge for the Premier League or the Champions League, the have to spend real money on proven players. Aspas is a project, but how many projects can Liverpool take on at one time?"


I can see Nicol's point - filling the team with young, inexperienced players seems ill-advised, especially after of the maddening inconsistency experienced during the first part of last season, which (partly) arose as a result of too many young inexperienced players (i.e Sterling/Wisdom/Suso/Borini etc) feeling their way into the team at the same time.

It's no coincidence that Liverpool's league form improved after Christmas when Sterling et al took a back-seat, and experienced players like Enrique, Downing and Henderson got extended runs in the team.

Aspas is 25, so he's not 'young' in the Coutinho sense, but he may need time to adapt to the Premier League, as will Luis Alberto, and any other young, promising player Rodgers ends up signing this summer. Yes, 20-year old Coutinho came in and made an immediate impact, but how often does that happen? At the moment, he is the exception rather than the rule.

Of course, FSG may surprise us all when the transfer window opens and sanction some big-money moves for proven attacking players, but after the catastrophic waste of cash under Dalglish, it seems unlikely, and that's perfectly understandable.

I disagree, however, that Liverpool can't challenge for the Champions League without big on proven players. If Rodgers' hot streak in the transfer market continues then the Reds have a great chance of making it next season, even without marquee signings. Hell, the club could've made it into the top four *this season* if not for the frustrating inconsistency.

If - as expected - Luis Suarez leaves Anfield, the club will receive a massive injection of cash, and at that point, there will then be no excuse for FSG not to sanction a big-money move for striker of comparable quality. if that doesn't happen, and the club's owners try to replace Suarez on the cheap, then that will be a genuine cause for concern.

It's all well and good using the profligacy of the Dalglish era as an excuse for instituting a financially cautious transfer policy, but that particular excuse has a shelf-life, and cannot be used indefinitely...can it?

NB. Seriously, ANY post that moans about Nicol being 'negative' will be deleted. It's irrelevant - if you disagree, post a counter argument.



NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)


122 comments:

  1. Truth is, FSG cannot afford to compete with the big boys.

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  2. Cheapskate yes and now the Drama around Suarez is taking the focus of that fact.

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  3. I totally agree! FSG leads LFC in dangerous paths! It must sold the team immediately to an owner who will respect LFC's history and heritage and who will want to invest heavily on the team!

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  4. I think that most people feel that a mix of experience and youth is the best way to build a team and with Carra gone we do need some proven players in the team to help develop the younger players( and help Gerrard) . That said BR has been making the right noises about bringing in Leaders and forging a Winning mentality so lets wait and see who comes in. Interesting to read that there has been no mention of the Suarez to Madrid story in Spain this weekend, so far, so unless Pep jumps in maybe that is not as done a deal as has been reported. Also I am glad the club are sticking to their guns on the price as if he stays or if he goes it needs to be up to LFC.

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  5. liverpool4life5652:15 pm, June 01, 2013

    We can't go buy a 20 million pound player because that means spending half of our transfer budget on one player, without CL money it be hard, and people going on about FSG should put there own money in, well they can't because of the fair play rules coming in, we can only spend what we generate.

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  6. yanks are naturally cheapskates.

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  7. How they claimed about ability to compete with anyone in the world.

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  8. This topic frustrates me a little and i know alot of people will disagree with me on this but seriously what does everyone want??!!

    Spending big money on experienced players doesnt always work (torres, Shevchenko and Robinho were all big money moves that didnt go aswell as everyone thought it would).
    I know we can name a bunch of high profile moves that worked out great but im just showing an example of some that didnt.

    Last season all i read was comments saying "Diame wasnt good enough for liverpool, we need a higher class of defensive midfielder", Then the season starts and suddenly it was "Why didnt we go for Diame? hes only 4.5m".

    The first half of the season it was "Why didnt we get Michu?" now suddenly a player in a similar vein such as Aspas isnt high profile enough.


    Im aware all the cheaper signings arent going to be Coutinho but all the big money moves arent going to be Aguero either.
    I hope we make some big money moves but also continue to make moves like the reported Aspas one because its just as much of a gamble.

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  9. I agree, Bringing in a good mix of youth and experience is IMO the best way forward.

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  10. Well its about patience and obeying FFP rules which it looks like many are not.
    I am not at all disappointed with what the club are undertaking because what clubs really can compete with the cheats that are PSG Monaco City Chelsea etc.
    I get the feeling they are building something good and this is the only way i can see them going forward in a big way.

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  11. totally agree with you here mate, Michu was too cheap for us, Diame was not good enough at one point, everyone overlooked Ba before he joined Newcastle. getting players at big prices, mostly serves the ego of we the fans and I honestly dont think LFC is in position to make the same mistakes made under Dalglish, I think the intended model is the Dortmund model, or even Spurs, how much did assembling their team cost or even Arsene Wenger. I wonder how many teams wouldn't want Gundogan in their team, how much did he cost Dortmund?...

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  12. The truth is that we don't have CL attraction so we it's hard to get the best players in the world. We will have to spend more money to attract the same players that would go to another CL club relatively cheaper for the sake of European football. The only chance we can get really quality players is if they just got injured or are poor in form currently or not fancied by their coach like David villa or higuain. But then again would these players want to come to liverpool and hope we get into CL next year? That's why our only realistic chance are young players that know of liverpool's tradition and want to play for us. Judging from Rodgers development of downing and Henderson I think we might have a shot if these players come in quick and have a full preseason to settle in. It's sad but we just don't have that pull like before nor the money like Monaco. I just hope xabi Alonso doesn't go to Chelsea with Jose cos that would just make me go crazy!

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  13. I seem to remember a young guy signing for us in 1981 for 300k from Ayr United at the tender age of 20. He became quite a decent player too...............now what was his name?

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  14. Everything Nicol says related to liverpool is negative now. We are in the market for raw talent using actual scouting. You can buy established players for big fees and wages and it blow up in your face. We overpaid for Carroll, Downing, Henderson etc so I'd rather buy a player with something to prove for a relatively low fee than blow all our budget on a big name and ego. If we sell Suarez for big money I would hope we dont waste it all either.

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  15. There is just one thing I can say to it - most football fans are clueless and love to moan about anything ...

    That's just the nature of football fans nowadays.

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  16. My real concern is that we haven't strengthened in those vital areas- if we sign Diame (who has been priority for the past 2-3 seasons) or Wanyama, Popadopulos/a top CB & Benteke/Bony or Martinez. Ericksen & an attacking R midfielder is a bonus.

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  17. I remember all those Diame comments, you are spot on with that. There are those that will find fault no matter what.
    If suarez goes, we will need to sign a top player to replace him, but it also means pretty much all of our first choice targets will become affordable at once. They were not expecting all this, and were planning around Suarez being here, which means prioritising.
    players like Aspas will be hit and miss. But none of the fees are so large that we will be stuck with them like we were with Carroll or Downing. And now and then, we will get a Coutinho....

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  18. I think the old adage of money not growing on trees is a more suitable reason to not "splash the cash". Is this just a big game to everyone now? I'm aware we've got some new owners in world football who are free with the cash, I guess it's fun to throw millions around when you've got billions in the bank, but is this what we want football to be? I think what everyone needs to keep in mind is that as a club it makes no sense for us to spend money we don't have. So sure, if Suarez goes and we get a big wad of money for that then great, we can go shopping. Until that point, every penny has to be accounted for. I don't expect our owners to pull magic money from their magic bank accounts to subsidise our unrealistic expectations. The idea is just plain nuts. I actually don't want English football to be full of teams owner by multi-billionaires where every off season is full of 50-100 million pounds transfer fees and the whole thing turns into a real life version of Premier League Manager 2013 with the cheat codes turned on.


    So sure, at some point you need to invest so that the team has quality players who perform well, we get back in the CL, maybe win a few things, earn some extra money, life the profile of the club etc etc. But when you look at how much it cost Chelsea to get where they are, and City ... while a team like Arsenal has done it far more sensibly ... there has to be a limit on how much you spend, you have to get the balance right. And when you look at what Rodgers has done, it does seem as if the 8-15 million pound players CAN be good enough to make a difference. I think that's what we'll do and I think spending that money on younger players makes sense, not because of a resale value, but because you get better value for money overall through having those players at their peak for longer. None of that requires us to become a team that we're not. We spent 35 million on Carroll and I think that will remain our record signing for some years to come, and I'm happy with that. We don't need big money signings, we just need good ones.

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  19. I have a huge problem with American owners in general they expect minimum investments with maximum gains. If you look at the American owned clubs in this country.....us, villa, arsenal and untied, all American owned and none of the tight bastards ever want to spend considering the size of these clubs. Also look at the average age of these teams all the lowest in the country. It's seems the buy young, sell high, make a profit, become a feeder club mentality is an American one. They even tried to talk about installing a fupping draft system for crissakes!!....liverpool used to be a destination club, under this Stars and Stripes greed they'll never invest in a top quality players making this the place to be leaving us a stepping stone club. I don't pay a grand for a season ticket to see the value of it in the bank! I want to see my investment on the pitch! This recruitment policy of buying NEARLY players rather than established players is always gonna be a gamble that only pays off a small percentage of the time. Says it all when you sack a manager for being a disallowed goal away from winning two cups!!! Dalglish??? With Americans its gold not silver! I'm proud of what's on the pitch not whats in the bastard bank!

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  20. There is only one ex player / legend I really care about what he has to say about our club and that's John Barnes.

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  21. Are you saying torres Liverpool or torres Chelsea

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  22. Well this is really a hard topic...

    It's definitely a risk... I felt that the liverpool team ending the season was not bad at all... A few quality signings would be good... But apparently, we are going to go for unproven players... If it works, BR ends up a genius... But if things do not go well next season, i dont think BR will get another chance...



    The unfortunate thing is that when we had the money, we bought like women in a supermarket... The more expensive the better :P

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  23. lol yes, Torres was a great deal for us

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  24. This is an interesting topic and one that I'm sure will be something that Mr Carr is gonna go gaga for lol! Anyway, truth be told this is something that has been done to death with regards to big spending = titles,trophies etc
    It poses the question of what do fans want? As Liverpool fans, we have a real superiority complex, we believe we are the best, so, we deserve the best. In one sense this is true, but also and to echo some of Jaimie's thoughts on Suarez for example - At what cost? Say for example, we went out and for arguments sake, intercepted Monaco's purchase (before the deal was agreed) and bought Falcao and spent 64 big ones on a clearly world class striker, then what? who next? How much money do people really think can be spent in order to construct a team that not only wins, but keeps on winning? 100 mil or maybe 200? Point of fact is, you can have a bottomless pit of money and still win squat, Mancini can tell you that. Forget the fact that we haven't had CL football in over three years and have only won domestic cups that really don't add a hell of a lot financially, where do people think the money for these big money signings is coming from? Do people expect us to be able to compete with the best...For the best? The answer is, we haven't got a hope in hell, and I think that's the problem, deep down we all know this and it hurts. The only way we can compete is to a) do a Man City and pay up to £280K a week or b) Start winning sh*t i.e The Premiership and the Champions League. Until any of those things happen then I'm afraid the owners and manager(In my opinion) are doing the right thing and spending low fees and wages and hoping we unearth star players and play great football. It's not rocket science really Borrusia Dortmund are a good example of this, they've unearthed talent that everyone is fighting for and along the way have challenged both domestically and in Europe.

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  25. m8 to be true iam not that bothered ive said they are cheapskates for months and like i said i will be proven to be right

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  26. How are they cheapskates? I don't get it, if they were cheapskates they wouldn't have put the money they made off the Torres sale back into the club. Personally I think Commolli has left us in a state as the owners trusted his knowledge of football and his ability to work under there model and he wasted a ridiculous amount of money.

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  27. I completely agree here I'd rather they bought 1 quality experienced player rather than 3 "potentially quality players" if this policy keeps up we will linger in mid table

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  28. The reason city didn't win this year is because they bought poorly and didn't get RVP. Man U was quite shite this season and RVP bailed them out many times. I'm still scratching my head wondering why Wenger would sell to Manure. City lost because of mancini's poor man management (publicly criticizing players like Nasir etc) and arrogant nature, not because you can't buy success with money (they proved it last season and Chelsea proved it during the Jose years as long as you have a good coach). All we can do is try to buy shrewdly, a few more like coutinho would really help.. If only Alonso would come back?

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  29. Our squad is still quite bare, if we keep buying 1 experienced player for the price of 3 potentials, I don't think FSG has enough money to buy 5 top top players! I predict only 1 and max 2 big name signings if Suarez leaves us

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  30. Yeah but my point is, they still lost and lost to a team that didn't spend a quarter of what they did in transfers and salaries. Wenger sold to Manure because they paid what he wanted and probably because he was thinking, better the devil you know. Point I was trying to make is, if you haven't got a oil rich sheikh or a Russian Oligarch as your owner and no guarantees of winning in Europe or domestically, you need another angle.

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  31. I think if/when Suarez is sold we'll probably end up with a couple of big signings, but I think it will all depend on how much we get. The club are playing the game at the moment saying that they have no intention of selling. This is just another way of saying the rumoured 40mil is not even close. If they get the same amount or more than what we got for Torres, add the Carroll money (About 15mil) plus a couple of departures I'm pretty sure with a budget of close to 80mil (By my poor estimations) well bring in a few stars.

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  32. Organic growth over quick fixes can be a frustrating thing especially at big clubs.We see much smaller clubs buy whoever they want with Arab and Russian money.When HAZARD and OSCAR signed for CHELSEA and we signed ALLEN and BORINI it showed us exactly where we are in the food chain.
    FSG have a long term strategy and they've backed our managers to a decent level but we've made big mistakes in the transfer market.If we see no progress in the next 2 years, I would hope they sell to someone who can get us where we belong much quicker.
    I think FSG have good intentions unlike our last owners but this club has huge expectations.Being a mid table team who play nice football but see 6 teams above us in the league is not a place that will be acceptable for long.

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  33. Exactly, truth be told I'd rather spend between £8 - 15 mil on players of the quality of Coutinho, Michu, Ba etc as spending £30 - 50 odd mil on a world class star that 'might' work is just too risky. Torres at the time (even though he was on a downward spiral) was considered as one of the best strikers in the world...er....£50 mil? We bought Sturridge for how much and he's already a better signing for us than Torres is for Chelski.

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  34. There's nothing wrong with having a long term plan in place.


    The idea here is to build a team that can sustain success over a long period of time.


    It would certainly be nice if we could go out and spend a billion on the team, but in the EPL, other than Chelsea and Man City, no one does that.


    If every other team was spending a billion and we weren't, then I'd be just as upset as others are now.


    But we have spent the third most in the EPL since FSG bought the club. The problem is that most of the players we splashed the cash on turned out to be duds relative to their expectations.


    Furthermore, the owners are running the club to make sure that financial stability is there long term.


    Considering the fact that we were at one point bordering on administration, I figured that more people would be appreciative of what FSG has done since they have been here, as opposed to what they haven't.

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  35. FSG has invested in the club though. I don't know how we can hold the lack of success against them. It should really be about the people spending the money as opposed to the bank.

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  36. I agree, Also the options we had were Administration or FSG.
    There doesnt seem to be a sheik waiting in the wings for LFC and i am happier having FSG than H&G

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  37. This...was...perfect

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  38. This is a point I have been making from the start. Who else came in for us when we were in need of a boost? FSG and people moan about them all the time. The thing is, they could come to Anfield every time we play and provide money all day (Oh wait they do) and people would still moan. Thing is ...They ...Are ...Owners! They didn't pay shirt buttons for the club, they paid millions! Hundreds of millions, of course they are going to want to protect their investment and not spend money the club can't sustain.

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  39. The great Shankly was able to get great players with a Liverpool team in the second division. Believe in the manager and give him time. let's pass judgement after the first 10 games next season, not right now

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  40. A fair point. Plus, apart from a centre back and a winger, we are in the market for squad players. We fans always complain (Chelsea and city fans moan all the time), no matter what the owners spend.

    Fans wanted - adam johnson, gaston ramirez, Eljero Elia, Gylfi jokerson, clint dempsey, etc. And they ended up being duds, some at far lesser teams, but still costing 10 mil on average.

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  41. Your spot on there mate. Its one thing missing out on top players due to budget but another thing altogether to miss out on a player due to poor scouting. If Jan was anything to go by we might have remedied that now.

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  42. well said mr nicol

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  43. Rosedivine Phiri4:47 pm, June 01, 2013

    Hey fellaz

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  44. Rosedivine Phiri4:57 pm, June 01, 2013

    I hope Aspas settles in quickly just like how countinho did,we should buy the following for decent fees:Atsu from Porto because he seems to be a better option than Downing,Aldeweireld,Eriksen for 15 - 20m,and a CDM,Luis Muriel depending if suarez leaves for madrid

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  45. What, so those four words just looked so good together you had to post them.Dummy!

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  46. I tend to agree with Nicol in many ways here. While I dont think there is anything wrong with cheap young players, I do think there is a limit to how many you want in a team at once. We need balance, which means some young projects and some ready made stars. We have to mix it up or we will fail. Not every signing needs to cost loads, and we do need to balance the books still, however the odd one here and there is needed. When you add up the values of the cheaper ones which fail im sure in the end it would be cheaper to have paid more for a better player. The key is getting the right player. KD got it wrong, big time, but that doesn`t mean every manager will, or every high priced player will be poor. The reason KD got it wrong was he spent amounts which would buy you the best 1% players in the world on ones who prob are only in the best 20%. Utd often spend a lot on just one signing, and often get it right. Rooney, RVP etc. they pay there way by the fact utd win titles. We on the other hand seem hell bent on not spending more than 12mil and not on anyone over 24, thus we end up excatly where you would imagine. 7th. Over the course of the last 10/20 years we have spent more than utd. Its all about where you spend it, not how much per player. There is no prizes at the end of the season for the team who signed the most players.


    Balance FSG, Balance..

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  47. Actually to be fair to Torres Andre villas boas and Roberto di Matteo were not able to maximize Torres' quality. I think he is worth ard 40 mil at that time but Chelsea paid a premium becos it's abramovich. Look at Torres under Benitez, he scored a goal in Europa final that is worth millions and he looks more like the player of old because the style suits him and his confidence is back. He is quality all throughout, but it made us feel good he sucked becos we would feel we did a good piece of business. But if the choice was mine, I'd rather keep him here but 50mil is too hard to refuse.

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  48. Rosedivine Phiri5:07 pm, June 01, 2013

    I hope Aspas settles in quickly just like how countinho did,we should buy the following for decent fees:Atsu from Porto because he seems to be a better option than Downing,Aldeweireld,Eriksen for 15 - 20m,and a CDM,Luis Muriel depending if suarez leaves for madrid

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  49. ISLESFAN74, My comment wasn't a anti FSG rant.It was just a reality check of where we stand compared to teams above us.I think our owners are doing a good job.But there is room for improvement, we finished mid table and we were 28 points behind MAN U.
    I acknowledged they've backed our managers to a decent level but I just want to see progress in the coming seasons.

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  50. Beardsley 1.7m Barnes 900k Houghton 800k? Adridge?? Backs up what I posted above

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  51. 1.7m back then still equates to much less than 10m now

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  52. beardsly was a british record transfer lol the others were high value transfers to

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  53. I cannot believe anyone who says that FSG are not good for the club. Please look at the H&G era and what they did to us. The H&G never had any plans for the club, they only came in for the money and as soon as they got the financial situation out of hand and their pockets were full they left the club to rot.

    This is where FSG come into the whole scene, what they did was reduced the loan on the club. I think most of us know that the credibility of an institution decreases with the increasing amount of loan that is accumulating, look at Real Madrid and the amount of loan they are in. To all who say FSG don't spend in the Transfer Market. Do you have the courage to invest millions and millions even after seeing that you have already lost enough money and that is why a Transfer Committee is made so minimal losses are faced rather than just giving the money to one man and saying him to spend. Running the club successfully doesn't mean infusing funds all the time, clearing our debts in itself is equivalent to huge transfer investments over the long term, they
    have made the club steady and given it a direction to run in for the
    future with a good vision and in long term it looks good for us.

    BTW every one loses their credibility because of their poor results or decisions and a club even if it is LFC can lose its as an institution if a lot of loan keeps on coming on it. Look at KD, he was sacked because of the transfer blunders he made in AC, JH, SD etc.Even BR has lost it because of Joe Allen and Fabio Borini. And Coutinho and Sturridge were from the Transfer Committee and not from BR, so please stop whining about FSG and be patient.

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  54. I didn't take it that as "anti FSG".

    I took it more along the lines that if they try it (whatever "it" is) and it doesn't work, you would hope a new owner would come in and try something different to get "it" to work.

    I agree with your response to my initial statement completely though.

    I believe FSG is part of the long term solution and that with them we will find long term success.

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  55. jamie i luis alberto really a done deal ?

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  56. How can deeming Nicol negative be irrelevant? Thats is a flipside of not agreeing with his opinion. So this comments section is only available for people who agree with him/you? Wow i though saddam had been taken out, but clearly not!!!

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  57. I think the problem is that FSG own two clubs LFC and the Red sox so their funds are split between the two.
    I think we need owners who can splash the cash and buy quality. Im not excited about the Aspas signing.

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  58. well maybe they are waiting for the suarez condurum to get over b4 giving more funds ?

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  59. henderson is starting to look worth every penny

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  60. I dont think they are. Like some other comments on here, i dont think FSG can compete.

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  61. henderson proving he is worth every cent and carroll could be our benteke its just we have a manager in helm who goes by only 1 plan and if u doubt carrolls ability go ask john terry

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  62. I think our chances of a successful season hinge on our replacment for Suarez. If he stays then great, but it looks unlikely. I agree with FSG's transfer policy in principle, but they need to abort that if we need a replacement for suarez, just buy the best man for the job irrelevant of age and (to some degree) price. What's the betting that Suarez has been mis-quoted? HA!

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  63. every mighty pine tree starts out as a seed we were once a mighty tree now we are starting from seeds again and all plants sprout with small leaves and make their stalk strong before sprouting gaint leaves hence we too buying small talents and make the squad core strong before buying the big guns :D

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  64. 75% of me does agree but 25% makes me feel better they dont waste money and further plunge us into our already large debt

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  65. if you look at the money they have spent for liverpool, it is actually quite a lot. Kenny Dalglish threw it away, and no FSG has realized that if they want to have a financially stable team, they can't throw stuff like 35m for a pony tail

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  66. The Glazers are americans as well..

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  67. LOL hendog is good. But carroll? how can he even be close to benteke. He's injury prone, isn't pacey, and john terry is a bench warmer.

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  68. Sorry but I do not believe this.

    FSG have pump 100's of millions into the Club, from buying the club to giving the managers money to spend.

    I like that FSG have been working to get Liverpool to be self sufficient and not be reliant on outside funds like Chelsea and City.

    Yes it takes a lot longer but it ultimately better for the Club

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  69. henderson runs miles now gets into crucial positions he actually performs interceptions and caroll has 6 goals in 11 games that more or less like itialian fellow from parma we are linked with.......and with the right tactics carrolls pace doesnt matter sam allardyce proved it and under dalglish we were playing the same fast paced football and carroll did fine

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  70. Millions that by previous managers have been spent badly however Henry's assets are now valued at less than they were when they bought the club. Fsg are struggling therefore they cant compete with us, although it takes longer but maybe better for the club, but interest like Ooreedo would benefit the club financially

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  71. I am glad that it was Nicol who said that, as he usually gets it wrong.


    You ask how often a player has an immediate impact pointing out that usually foreign players need time to adapt. Well, in recent history we've been quite lucky then, because Torres and Suaréz, our most prominent imports, took to the Prem like duck to water. Alonso and Luis Garcia didn't seem to have any trouble either. And have a look at the foreign imports of other clubs.



    I agree that some 20-year-olds may take a bit more time to impose themselves, but I can't see us signing only players of that age and below.


    As for marquee signings, well, I think they are basically there to please certain sections of the fans. There are so many talented players out there for half the price or less than what a well known name cost. Better get two players with great ability whom no-one has heard of than one whose name has been in the papers all of the time.

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  72. FSG i believe want to emulate Arsenals way of business where arsene wenger has a net spend of +40m in the last 10 years whilst maintaining CL football. This is a model worth looking at for any businessman and Wenger may have fans questioning him, but i bet his board are fully behind him. Success for business men is trying to get a manager who can nurture youth and make their value rise, sell the player at a profit and repeat the process. The only downfall to this plan is that BR will need to get into the CL at some point otherwise fans will call for his head, if he gets in the CL and maintains a team of youth and selling to the highest bidder, Liverpool may not win the league but, they will be massively profitable and will ensure sponsors keep coming due to CL football. As an owner of a company, why would you spend your own money if you did not have to? Its only crack pot fans and fanatic billionaires that do that kind of thing. Smart businessmen are in business to make money otherwise what is the point of going to work?? I do think this system will ultimately make Liverpool stronger and better but it will take a long time but the only reason for it is to make a profit, its as simple as that!!!

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  73. Make a profit? Do you think that FSG will take money out of the club? Or that they will make the club more valuable and sell at a higher price than they have bought it?

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  74. I haven't got many issues with their alleged philosophy, as we do not have owners like Chelsea, PSG, Monaco, etc. We simply are not that big, in terms of financial power and that is just the way it is. They (FSG and their subordinates) haven't exactly been flawless in executing it but that is par for the course. Although I do hope that if Suarez does go, that the club would go out and spend at least £20m on a striker at least. At the end of the day, its been a messy past two decades for us and without a sugar daddy, that doesn't just go away just like that.

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  75. Football is a business. You make losses and bad decisions in business that doesn't mean you won't make any further investments. You learn from it and try to invest in a better way rather then stop investing (relative).

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  76. Both, but dont get me wrong they are no where near as bad as glazers or H&G. All I am saying is they will have a long term plan where they will buy in youth and try to develop from within which is a good thing if it works, that why i think BR was chosen as he will not demand massive transfer kitties, he will be just developing himself at Liverpool whilst trying to develop a Liverpool team. I think the ultimate dream of FSG is to have a Liverpool team doing what Dortmund or Arsenal are doing, qualifying for the major competitions, getting in revenue from all angles and ensuring the team do not cost the earth so their is profit in the club through yearly dividends and increase in the total value of the club. If they achieve this then they are good businessmen. Do i think they will bleed us dry, no i think they are here for the long haul to try and develop us but, i believe it will take a long time for us to get back up their on a consistent on a consistent basis, hopefully the saving they make will be ploughed into a stadium, that's if BR can get some extra revenue from CL.

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  77. They've hardly stopped investing have they? Or have you failed to notice that? Are Sturridge and Coutinho not investments? FSG are signing young players as investments for the future, even in business they make investments that can prove beneficial in the next few years that could last longer rather than a quick fix as quick fixes can turn out to be damaging in the future. FSG sanctioned the deal for Coutinho instead of Sneijder and look at how that turned out. Coutinho is one of the most exciting prospects for next season while Sneijder will most likely continue to be a flop for Galatasaray. People complain about cheap unproven signings but what were Hyppia and Riise? Yes a top quality experienced striker would be nice but who's to say they will be effective for us? Look at Robbie Keane when he joined us, most people were excited that we had signed this proven goalscorer but as the season got going we clearly had not payed the money for the player we were expecting. He had a run of a few outstanding games then got dropped and only to be sold back to Tottenham at a fraction of the price in January.The point I'm trying to make is FSG are trying to be smart with there money while investing rather than going gung ho and signing every big name we've been linked with, even the good players who's to say they would have been any good for us?

    If i've misinterpreted what you have said i'm sorry but then this can just be classed as any other comment :)

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  78. liverpool4life56510:41 pm, June 01, 2013

    That aspas got a nice assist today, he has good feet! If we sign him then a good signing.

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  79. I heard Wenger sold RVP to United because hw was trying to sweeten Fergie up to sign Nani but that didn't go according to plan if true.

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  80. I do not believe that Rodgers is a one plan man, I've argued this with people down at the pub and my family on so many occasions I've lost count. I believe Rodgers wants people to believe that he only has one plan but how many times do we see Liverpool play long balls when it's against his footballing philosophy? Look at Suarez's goal against Newcastle that was from the long ball. What the possession game makes the opposition do is one of a few things. 1. Press higher up the pitch and play more physically to bully the players off the ball like Stoke did. 2. Play higher up the pitch leaving a massive gap between the defenders and the keeper. 3. The midfield pushing up the pitch leaving a massive gap between the defence and the midfield like in the Newcastle game at St.James and 4. The ball is played around that often the defence are no longer on their toes for the unexpected as they think it's going to be the same old thing they get caught napping lie with Suarez's goal with Enrique pinging up the pitch. This you may say is an isolate incident but if you go back and watch a lot of our games this season you will see we do it on a very consistent basis and why shouldn't we as we have Hendo, Gerrard, Enrique and others who can all play that killer ball. Rodges would have to be stupid not to do the odd long ball every now and then. You may say this is showing a complete no faith in the system but what many fans don't realise football is now like a game of chess. Near enough everything happens for a reason. The truth is every thing is rehearsed constantly in training and when a player plays a ball and goes to no one most of the time there was an unexpected event that happened like a player being checked therefore not being able to make his run. I read that when Ronaldo was still at United and had that season where he was scoring in every game for them they came up against Chelsea and the way Chelsea had set up Fergie wanted to take Ronaldo off within 5 minutes but he didn't know how without looking like he was cracking up and damaging the morale of his best player. That game was considered Ronaldos worst game that season

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  81. They have invested heavily in the team, their money got wasted on duds.

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  82. If that's the case Wenger is the stupidest manager around. He's really getting old I guess. Nani for RVP? Anyone would take that in a heartbeat now, although for a period of time last season Nani was playing amazing football, guess he must have fallen out with fergie. If only he could come to Liverpool but that's wishful thinking haha..

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  83. One can blame FSG for having no knowledge about English football, does not know how to appoint the right people to lead the team and allowing illogical big money moves. But to say that FSG is not investing or not investing enough into LFC is really not a fair statement, in my most humble opinion. For anyone with doubt, please use a calculator and add up the total amount they spent on players starting from KD's appointment. It's definitely more than a third of a new stadium, assuming the cost is 400 mil pounds. Youth and unproven does not equate to 'cheap'. AC is definitely not cheap, so is Stewart Downing, JH, Borini and Joe Allen. The more outstanding players like LS and DS are not cheap either. Or may I ask what is the general definition of 'cheap' and 'expensive'? As far as I'm concern, any player that cost 15 mil pounds upwards are expected to contribute to the team instantly. Or are we so 'into' the philosophy of a typical oil & gas team that even their reserve goalie may cost more than other team's main striker.

    Fans may not like what I'm going to say but look at how well Arsenal is doing with their finances and how astutely is Arsene Wenger in the transfer market. Do they need to buy big every season? We typically outspend Arsenal every season but we take an average, how many points are we behind them for the past 10 seasons? When can we build a new stadium like them to stay competitive with the elites? Any LFC fan can make a mockery out of Arsenal's years of being trophy-less. But before one does it, please take a deep good look at LFC. It will be somewhat great if we can emulate the success of Arsenal in the transfer market, results in the league and gate receipts, sadly.

    Buying young and unproven is no problem, as long we pay sensible price for them. Do not belittle players with a small price tag, just take a look at our legendary Sami Hyypia. Certainly I know about fan's expectations because I'm one too. But we need to be realistic about the fact that we offer no Champions League football so it is considerably harder for us to attract the so-called 'star' players. Anyway, players labelled as 'star' players, especially those from foreign leagues, may not perform as well in EPL, also too many of such characters will certainly not create a good ambiance in the dressing room. So it may not be that cool after all to drool about having many 'star' players in our team. The more important point is that players must wear our jersey proudly, willing to gel into the team and play all out for us. Lastly, do we actually need an all-out overhaul in the team in the coming season? I thought we have quite a good team with some really talented young players. Just make sure we have enough covers to replace players leaving.



    Oh nearly forget, maybe Steve Nicol is campaigning for the return of his old pal, Kenny Dalglish, as KD is the only manager that knows how to spend money more suited to an oil and gas team. For new players like Aspas, LFC should add another 30 mil pounds to his price tag to make it look 'big'.

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  84. If FSG is able to make LFC a profitable team every season, send LFC into the Champions League every season, try as hard to challenge for top spot in the league and eventually build a new stadium, everything's the same as Arsenal, what's wrong with them taking money from LFC? Football clubs are supposed to be run as a business not a toy like the few oil and gas clubs in the continent. Business are suppose to bring in revenue for owners, else why are they doing it? About selling the club, what's wrong with that if they can make a very good profit out of it. We fans can only hope that the next owner will do good for the club.

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  85. Yes, you are absolutely right. It can only be good for the club in the long run. But if FSG is to have any degree of success in their emulation of Arsenal, they need to control their finances even more tightly and not spend big on unproven players.

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  86. Yes exactly how some people quickly forget where they themselves started Steve Nicol esp

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  87. nicol is a bitter old muppit. check out dortmund they disprove all he has said there

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  88. you failed to noticed I mentioned "relative"

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  89. Some of us are just envy of those toy clubs with owner who spent millions of dollars senselessly on players just to satisfy their personal ego and these fans does not realise it is a path that we cant embark on. We are not a toy club. Sustainable is what we need to achieve first. Spending prudently does not mean cheapskate. However, if we do sell suarez, we need to spend more on a recognise striker as a proper replacement.

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  90. They can afford to, as evidenced by their spending in America.


    They just choose not to, as LFC clearly isn't a priority in their eyes, and instead is being viewed as an investment to raise their profile and make money from

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  91. What do you mean by, "respect LFC's history and heritage"??

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  92. What's happening with all this ridiculous amount of money handed out to Premiership teams for the new TV package??

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  93. We don't need squad players, we need first teamers.


    And most fans desperately want whoever we get heavily linked with in the papers/on the net.

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  94. I was more going off your first comment "Ho they claimed about ability to compete with anyone in the world" but my mistake

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  95. I remember plenty of fans calling for the signing of Diame last year tbh, although it has gone up considerably now


    Some players are just clearly more of a risk than they're worth though. It was extremely difficult to justify signings like Allen & Borini last summer, whereas signings like Coutinho & Sturridge had plenty of merit, even without the benefit of hindsight.


    And here I am guilty of an uninformed opinion, but I am just not excited by the signing of Aspas. I just desperately hoped that I am proved wrong this time.

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  96. That's the problem with Nani i think, he can be unbelievable for a period of time then he just seems to go off the boil and start playing like he's not interested. Another problem of his is that he tries to hard to be like Ronaldo and also lives under Ronaldos shadow but yeah I wouldn't mind him at Liverpool. He'd fit right in to the system I reckon and there are rumours he wants to leave.

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  97. I agree with everything you say except for the KD part. British players are known to be more expensive. Caroll cost 35 becos Newcastle would only accept 15 less of Torres, Henderson now seems a good piece of business, downing is the only one that was too exp althôugh he did have a great season when we bought him. Adam was also reasonable, so was Suarez. So I don't really think KD was a big spender plus comolli was also involved. I think buying British players also helped the dressing room as well plus we almost won the FA cup last year so KD did a decent job IMO.

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  98. LFC is a team that must always compete for titles, 18 championships, 5 champions league, so you cannot transmit this team in a mediocrity team!

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  99. When was the last time any player moved between liverpool and manure? Not possible at all I think haha. Fergie would rather lose than sell to us, just see berbatov I always felt that he would be great for us.

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  100. A rebuild of the team doesn't necessarily have to take 5 years, if we're buying players that aren't 5 years away from fulfilling their potential. Bring in more 23-25 year olds that are ready to deliver now and we can kick on. And tbh, this should be Rodgers' focus, as I honestly believe he'd only have another year to make the next step.

    I am well aware that LFC are not the biggest draw in world football atm, but there is PLENTY of talent around that could IMMEDIATELY improve our team considerably and have us challenging for honours again, without needing to splurge megabucks.

    When you consider that we also have such high earners as Suarez, Reina, & Skrtel set to leave (and could afford to easily replace other high earners like Downing, Johnson & Borini for a profit, with little negative impact on the squad imo) and there should be more than enough funds to move the squad up a level.

    Assuming that we actually target the right types of players for the right positions.

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  101. Regardless of Newcastle's stance, Carroll cost us £35m.

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  102. I'm not so concerned about the cost of the player, just his level of quality. If we can somehow find a +£20m caliber player for far less than he's worth, then I'm all for it.


    Buying players mainly because they're available for cheap though, is an absolute waste of time and money.

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  103. That doesn't equate to investing heavily in the team though.


    As far as I can see, the vast majority of fans are ridiculously hypocritical in their wailing over desires for new owners to splurge on their own teams, while jealously berating the fortune of clubs such as Chelsea, Man City & Monaco.

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  104. i will admit When i heard we were linked with Aspas i wasnt overly excited as i'd only seen him play once this season and tbh i really wasnt paying to much attention to him lol. But i hope he hits the ground running like Coutinho did if we do get him.

    Also i think at the time the signings of Allen and Borini were merited but the fees were a bit high.

    BR wanted to bring in his own tactics and gamestyle and Allen was a key to his plans while at swansea, met FSG's youth policy and hes not a disruptive ego in the change rooms.

    15m was too high but i think he saw this signing as a key to his plans and Swansea held out for the release clause.

    Borini was a bit more of a gamble, i will admit i am bias because i was a fan of Borini when he got a run out with chelsea (very few), i was impressed when he went on loan to swansea also.
    His season at Roma was when i got to see alot more of him and i was impressed with his workrate and impressive runs at goal.
    He was played in all of the front 3 positions at roma throughtout the season and scored 9 goals in 26 games, considering he wasnt their out and out striker i thought was a decent return.
    Once again he seemed like he could fit BR's system in a front 3 (unfortunately it didnt really work out) so i thought it was a good signing at the time.

    BUT 11m (i think was his fee) was high for a player with really only a season at Roma as his experience, I think roma made a profit of like 3-4m in 3 weeks with this deal so im sure they are happy.


    I do like to look on the brighter side so i hope Allen comes out and starts commanding the midfield and Borini who i dont see as being the next Torres but hopefully the next Dirk Kuyt can come out and make a decent dent in the score sheet next season.

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  105. I think the key is just good scouting. You dont have to spend 50m on every player you sign if you pick the right players, i know its not as easy as ive just stated but i agree with what you have said in Targeting the right players for the right positions.

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  106. Phil Chisnall back in 1964 aha. Lucky for us it is no longer Fergie in charge but unfortunately it's now David Moyes.

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  107. This signing of young players can backfire too. Just when everything starts to go well for them, they might up and leave for a bigger club. Like what happened with Arsenal.

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  108. Not easy to do that but certainly possible. But if Suarez does go, I just want to see that commitment of putting down considerable cash for a player of quality, as in times like that, I think it is sometimes needed.

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  109. liverpool4life56511:20 am, June 02, 2013

    That comes In next season, so it would increase our budget

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  110. Buddy, seriously, with the set of world class players bought by KD, by their price tags only, plus the original set of players inherited by him, you seriously think that he's did a decent job last season? 52 points in the entire season and a whopping 17 points behind 4th placed Tottenham. That's real hardcore! Nothing disrespectful, If we are working on a Fulham or WBA transfer budget plus their team of players, 52 points in league, League Cup winner and FA Cup finalist, that will be considered a great result.

    I don't know the actual ground situation, but I assume if I'm a player in the team, I would be horribly devastated to see a team mate on a 90k weekly wage but scored only 4 leagues in 31 matches. Harmonious dressing room because of nationality, I severely doubt so. KD, together with Comolli, needed to be sacked regardless of results in cup competitions and rightfully so at the end of the season. They really screwed up big time and set LFC back for many years to come.

    I remembered someone here said something very true. He said we bought foreign and groom locals. English players are expensive and no top teams will offer their best local players to rival teams. It is even more so especially when we cannot offer Champions League football.

    We as fans can only pray that FSG and BR will never perform stupid acts again by paying world class fee for those 1 or half season wonders, regardless local or foreign. SD, AC, JH, JA and Borini, unfortunately, all fell under the same category.

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  111. FFP implications haven't come into effect yet either...

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  112. liverpool4life5652:19 pm, June 02, 2013

    True point but we are already got debt which might affect us for next season so it's best to cut back :-)

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  113. Existing debt and debt from non-football operations doesn't matter as far as I can remember. It's all about new debt accumulated from the 3 years before season 2014-15, or something like that.


    And if we want to be be minimizing debts, we need to get back into the CL asap, which requires us to have a better team.

    Just selling Carroll, Suarez, Skrtel, Downing, Reina & Coates (plus reserves like Spearing) for a VERY conservative amount of ~£75m could fund spend on a +£20m ST, ~£20m WF, ~£10m DM, ~£15m CB & ~£10m GK, thereby enabling a complete revamp of our team in Rodgers' vision.

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  114. I agree about the need to make a statement in this case, as it would be necessary to maintain the optimism as we enter the new season after selling one of the best players in world football (in a season which will be make or break for Rodgers imo).

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  115. I've made my opinion on Kuyt clear over the years, so the idea that we were picking up a smaller, weaker and overall less accomplished, "Jack-of-all-trades" version of Kuyt didn't excite me in the slightest. Especially while clearly better players were available for less money.

    In central midfield, I was a fan of Aquilani, felt that Henderson & Shelvey were both good prospects and that the team was desperately in need of much improved athleticism all throughout the team, so the thought of shipping Aquilani out at a massive loss in order to make way for the expensive pick-up of a tiny, non-creative CM was another that didn't appeal to me.
    My only hope for Allen next season is that he moves further upfield where his size & strength isn't so much of a liability, and he becomes more aggressive with his passing in an attempt to become a "Welsh Iniesta"

    (btw, I was intrigued by the signing of Assaidi however, and was assured that Sahin would be a much better fit than he was)

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  116. The best way to get the club generating money on the pitch again is to get back into the Champions League asap. And the way to do that is by improving the talent in our squad asap, not talking about 5 years in the future, as if everybody else will just stay still and wait for us to catch up.


    Even without additional funds anyway, the sales of Carroll, Suarez, Skrtel, Coates, Reina, Downing and Spearing could VERY easily generate transfer funds in excess of £75m (with the impact of Suarez the only one that would be difficult to replace)

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  117. well, I don't think being excited about someone counts for anything here. Most of us were excited about Carroll, how did that turn out? Most didn't rate Sturridge, how did that turn out?

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  118. I'm pretty certain we shall chew humble pie when it comes to Joe Allen in the coming season, so everyone putting him down, go buy Sneijder!! I will be here to remind you

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  119. dont know if ur thesis is for or against me :P

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  120. There were a few of us that were actually pretty excited about having Sturridge join.


    And the consensus from all the fans I spoke to when the Carroll signing was announced, was WTF!? You must have been one of a teeny minority to have been happy with that deal at the time.

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  121. Wow! I wrote a lot! I didn't realise how much I wrote :P I think it was against the one plan system and I then got carried away :P

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  122. if ur against the one plan system join the club :D

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