7 Feb 2013

'I'm not convinced' - Lawro slams €17m LFC transfer rip-off. Waste of money...?

Despite some impressive passing statistics, many Liverpool fans still remain unconvinced about summer signing Joe Allen, who recently lost his place in the Reds starting XI. Anfield legend Mark Lawrenson is one of the undecided, and he firmly believes that his old club overpaid for the Wales International.

In a recent interview with the BBC, Lawro called Allen a 'decent' footballer (nothing like damning someone with faint praise!), and suggested that Liverpool got ripped off by Swansea. He observed:

"I don't think anyone else would have paid the money that Liverpool did for him [Allen], and I have to say Swansea were very clever and did very well to get £15m (€17m)".

Liverpool overpaying for players seems to be a regular (and unwelcome) feature of the club's transfer policy these days, but it's still early days yet, and it's possible that Allen could end up justifying that fee at some point in the future. Lawro added:

"In Liverpool's midfield, Lucas is the better player. Allen is the link-man, passing the ball around, but Lucas can do that and get his foot in. And I cannot remember seeing Allen pass anyone in for a chance yet. People tell me he will become more attacking. I hope they are right but I am yet to be convinced."

In the league, Allen's defensive/passing statistics are creditable, but his attacking contribution makes for alarming reading:

* Shots on target: 0
* Successful crosses: 0
* Assists: 0
* Goals: 0

Allen has however, created 21 chances, which is pretty good for a player not renowned for his attacking prowess. Indeed, when you consider that Steven Gerrard has created 65 chances, Allen's figure is not that bad at all.

Allen is his own harshest critic, and in an interview yesterday, he admitted that he's 'frustrated and disappointed' with his current form, and acknowledge that his performances need to improve. He told LFC.com:

"Everyone knows my form hasn't been great. "There's no magic formula or reason why I haven't been playing well. It's just happened and I'm sure that will change. I'm a perfectionist and sometimes I get frustrated and disappointed when things aren't perfect, but it's up to me to work hard and improve my performance.

Allen is a very good player, but unless he shares the defensive midfield role with Lucas, it's hard to see where he fits into the team, and Brendan Rodgers has to take the blame for that.

* Allen rarely scores/creates goals, so playing him in an attacking midfield role robs the team of an attacking threat. Players who take up the Gerrard/Henderson role in the team have to contribute creatively, and Allen's stats show that he is seemingly incapable of doing that.

* He doesn't have great dynamism/physical presence, which means he sometimes get bullied out of game in the middle (hence the reason Henderson is preferred to him at the moment)

* Playing Allen as part of the front three would be a total waste of player because, again, he rarely makes a specific creative contribution. In an attacking sense, Allen is not as good as Suarez, Downing, Sturridge, Suso, Sterling, or even Fabio Borini, so why would he ever get into the front three ahead of any of them?

* That leaves defensive midfield, where he's proven to quite effective at times, but that is Lucas's domain, and if he's fit, he's always going to be in the team.

There's no space in the team for Allen to be the link-man between midfield and attack; in theory, it's a good idea, but it's arguably a total waste to have a player in the team who's sole job is to pass the ball off to others. That may work for Barcelona, who have some of the best attacking players in the world to call on, but it doesn't work at Liverpool.

There's only one conclusion: Allen's only realistic role in the team is as defensive-midfield cover for Lucas. In other words, he's a squad player, and an expensive one at that. Am I wrong? Where else does Allen fit in? Where else can he play and not affect the productivity and balance of the team?

FSG must be pretty disturbed to realise that Rodgers has spent £15m on a squad player. Liverpool could've used that money more wisely last summer and spent it on a player the club really needed, i.e. a striker, or a winger.

Again, I should reiterate: I like Allen as a player, but the brutal truth is that he just isn't needed at Liverpool.

NOTE: Please stick to the Comment Policy (Click to read)


  1. i don,t think i should post on this one i,ve made my feelings known,but hell yes we did overpay

  2. I don't know if you've made a mistake posting those stats, or you think they're right, but he had a couple of targets on goal against Sunderland, that I remember, right?

    I think Allen is a good player, but I think he can only play in a 4-5-1 (or any system with a midfield 3) and I don't think he is good enough to shape the team around. He isn't quick or robust enough to do the defensive work, and he seems to lack the bravery (as of now) to play further forward. If Suarez leaves, I could see Rodgers playing him and Lucas deep and then getting a no.10 (unless he feels ready to throw Coutinho or one of the youngsters in).

    £15mil is crazy money considering the relative poverty we have (and had even moreso in the Summer) in certain positions.

    So far, with Borini and Allen, I fear that Rodgers has bought two good players, but two players Liverpool don't need. I'd love to be proved wrong though.

  3. i read an article where a club held out for a player liverpool wanted where the manger or director said its liverpool they can pay two or three more million... sigh 

  4. Time will tell.  As a fan base we seem very keen to slag people off - i.e. we want instant success NOW, which doesn't help anyone if it isn't going to happen.  No player tells a club how much they will pay for him, its just the stupid owners who agree to agents / clubs demands.  
    Lucas (and maybe now for Hendo?)is the best example of how time can change everything - I have never known such vitriol as what he suffered, shame on us - and perhaps Joe will be the same.

  5. And Lawro was such a BRILLIANT MANAGER - REMEMBER ???????????????

  6. JC, if you'd had your way, we'd have no player in the team!
    Can just picture you slating Shanks, Paisley, Dalglish and all that followed.
    Get on the anti depressants mate!

  7. Same point could of been made when lucas 1st arrived but you now use him as a example. He always makes himself available for a pass and is constantly on the move making sure the ball keeps getting circulated around the team. Would the most improved players in our squad be that improved if they hadn't of had Allen to learn from. If passing a football to a team mate is so easy why dont all footballers in his position do it. His pass completion rate was up there with the best.

  8. He 22, Henderson went through the same patch when we joined now look at him go? More confident and scoring and assisting goals....

  9. theoriginalbigbod@yahoo.com6:11 pm, February 07, 2013

    allen is, and always was, sh**e - he is at best a journeyman player who can fill in, as a last resort, for an injured one - he has no skill, no pace, no tactical awareness, no tenacity, no physical presence, cannot tackle - in effect nothing to add to the side - most of his passes are backwards and anything longer than 5 yards miss the target - at £15m he is a bigger mistake than anyone i can think of - even andy carroll has a lot more to offer - perhaps if rodgers had not praised him so much we could have got him for less but even at quarter of the price he wouldn't be worth it - i can't see him as even a squad player at the moment

  10. Did my thoughts not meet the rules? I posted ages ago and no sign!

  11. JK, why have you expressed his value in Euros? Is it to make it seem more and therefore more dramatic, or are the majority of your viewers from Europe?

    Just wondering.

  12. He was clearly a player Rogers wanted and a player Swansea wanted to keep. And so - yes - they did overpay but Rogers clearly felt it was worth it. Early in the season everyone was raving him because he made "the philosophy" work. Since we've all come to question what he does in the side. **Actually in fairness - He looked pretty good against Austria in fairness - did you see his Assist to Bale's goal? Gerrard-esque = Amazing.

    I'm sure he'll grow into his boots; from what I've noticed when he has a quiet game he's doing his job well - this could be argued that "he's only a sideway passer" but in fairness he always makes himself readily available for a pass and does have a bit of bite about him (even if he concedes the odd freekick) but I dont think those are bad traits - I think he's really good at cleaning up after an attack has broken down - consequently reshaping Liverpool so that they can press again even if he's not doing much pressing himself.

    Which brings me back again - Why is he not needed at liverpool? why is everyone so quick to get players out? Aquillani, Cole, Adam ... fine. All the players that have left I'm glad have gone. But our squad lacks depth as it is and We're also building for the future and as we saw today - our seniors aren't going to be around forever. ywna

  13. yr in denial mate

    he is a water carrier

  14. I don't like how players are being hanged in the town's square.
    I was proven wrong several times on signings, for good and for bad.
    Lucas have suffered greatly during his first two seasons with us, whereas Bellamy's first season wasn't a successful one either. More recently was last season's Henderson's performance which was dreadful.

    However, all three have proved all critics wrong.

    On the other hand were Aquilani, Coates, Diouf, (Downing, Carrol?)and many others.

    I do not think Allen's bad form tells the whole story. He is very comfortable with the ball at his feet, and is a very talented young player. But has yet to gel properly in the club. It might take him some time, but just as the people that cursed Lucas and Hendo are eating their hats right now(Maybe Hendo still has a point to prove to some), I believe he will become a very important player in the future.

    Put your trust behind the young players and they will perform. Expect too much of them and you'll have another Pacheco or El Zhar in your hands.

    You could argue that these players don't have the right mentality to succeed, but in my opinion - that's a part that can be developed with the right kind of support. Just look at Torres to understand how much of it is down to self belief and the right kind of support.

  15. If anyone knows or knew anything about football  then know that allen is worth 6-7 mil tops but i wouldn`t even pay 4 mil for him

  16. Why would you even pay a quarter of the price if he of has"nothing to add to the side"?

  17. How am I? Just realistic, some players it takes time to settle into a club. I'm not surprised he tired, started early, Olympics,pre season,Europa,PL,carling cup,FA cup.... It takes it toll.... After a while, he 22 he will come good again.

  18. Agree with those comments above from people who can see what qualities Allen possesses. And may I add that up until he got dropped he had won back possession more often than any other player, in the entire league. If that is the mark of a bad player, I wish I'd be as bad as him. The backward passes argument doesn't hold any water either. Of the top five passers in the league Allen has the most forward passes (and, if I remember correctly, least backward ones). Also some argue that he only makes 2 yard passes while in reality his passes travel 18m on average.

    His dip in form is probably as bad as the one Enrique suffered in the second half of last season, albeit Allen got dropped and Enrique didn't.

  19. I've got very mixed views on the Allen purchase, in one sense, I can see why people feel that he was a little pricey. However in another sense, I believe that he is and will be a necessity. Remember this, sometimes managers buy players that know and can help implement their footballing philosophy on the pitch. Even though Allen has looked pretty poor (To his own admission) for the last half dozen games or so I think that there are qualities present in him that could possibly make him a mainstay. I'm almost 100% sure that most of the people who are talking him down are the same that absolutely slated Lucas and pushed for us to get shot. I think that everyone needs to take a step back and stop judging players after half a season. People develop and push on in different timescales and stages, I believe what really matters with any player that has any ability is attitude....Lets wait and see what happens.

  20. Time for what? He scores 4 goals in a season tops in all his life ,  never gives a a killer ball in all in life, is not a better tacker than lucas and will never be in all his life.i would even let him of if he could give a 40 yard pass to the wings or dribble a couple of players with skill. Nope he can`t do that either!!! Look at his stats from one he was born. Watch him play for two years
    If you don`t have breasts you can`t breast feed.
    I rest my case


  21. Well written Jaimie you have hit the nail on the head....most of the ire i aim at allen is frustration..to why rogers signed him ..

  22. theoriginalbigbod@yahoo.com7:22 pm, February 07, 2013

    i wouldn't

  23. Tell me another Joke lol

  24. its a very cosmopolitan website

  25. Agree with lawro to a certain degree, if we wanted a
    diminutive playermaker of the same ilk would've chosen Ever Banega (before he
    somehow ran himself over with his car?). Banega has that South American ferocity
    (no stereotype here) when he plays, doesn't puss out challenges. But getting
    more p*ssed off the more I hear the man talk (never a good thing to say about LFC).
    In the words Didi to Barton, show some respect/class. How much respect would he
    have as a pundit, were it not for the success he had with LFC? Since he shaved
    that 'TASH' off, it seems it’s taken the weight off his mouth (all we hear is
    his 2 cents on everything). How his missus must be 'showered' with complements?

  26.  henderson has natural physical attributes like size and speed ...thats why i have always had faith in him ...with allen what you see know is what you get

  27. god I wish had 'BREASTS', wouldn't leave the house..

  28. I think it all boils down to the fact that he played too much.  The Lucas injury really hurt this team as Allen was playing in a role he was unsuited for, and he played so often, that it's ruined his form now that he is back in his natural position.

    I think he's a quality player that we overpaid for.  We paid 15m and fans expected him to perform as a 15m player.  He's not yet.  

    The expectations coming in were unfair and the likelihood that he was going to fulfill those expectations was slim.

    Look at players such as Henderson and Downing.  Last year, with high expectations they were not good.  This year, with low expectations, they are playing better.

  29. With the financial troubles at Valencia, and the Valencian region itself, getting no better, surely someone is going to pick up a bargain or two from them in the summer. Would love to see Banega here, classy player. But we, me thinks, have made our bed with Allen and the current CM stable we have for another season. Though I don't share the same level of criticism as some of the above people but I do understand some of the frustrations leveled at Allen. I wasn't one of those that was keen on him to come here. He has been a mixed bag. But he has done the basics of his purpose/role in this system quite well, i.e.,keeping the ball moving. Just got to show a little bit more at times, in terms of showing some expansiveness and not be so timid at times. Hendo has his deficiencies but Allen could do with some of the determination Hendo seems to have shown of late. Hopefully when Lucas gets back to form, Allen may well come out of his shell more. 

  30. Well I'm goner let him do his stuff, I am not goner slate a player because it can always turn around and slap you in the face...

  31. Agreed ..

    But at least Rodger's has had the ball's to drop his under performing signings unlike KD last season when Downing and Henderson were nailed on starter's every week despite arguably performing worse than Rodger's pair.

    Every manager will make mistakes in the transfer market.. and Rodger's isn't the first and won't be the last manager to go back for former player's who have performed for them elsewhere.

    He has shown in the short time he is here.. despite what people say about him over praising player's.. that he has a bit of a ruthless streak .. which I must say is a must for any sucessful manager.

  32. Is this the most sophisticated counter-argument you can come up with?

  33. Could be well the way you desribe it. It's really difficult to say whether or not a player is affected by his transfer fee. The fan's expectations are surely higher with rising fees. Does a player know what the fans expect of him. Did Downing know that almost every LFC supporter thought he was sh1te? Or Henderson?

  34. Yep, and I for one wouldn't have expected to see that ruthless streak in him when I first saw him. He doesn't look like that, but he seems to have more about him than catches the eye.

  35. You re set the going rate for him. If i thought he was that bad i would have his value at £0 and paying me to play.

  36. Just out of interest Jamie, why do you use euros? Simply curious... That's all.

  37. If you do make your feelings known then please to so in a civil manner. No belittling 'he's crap' type posts. Same goes for everyone else.

  38. Another quality I admire in him, not full of himself or prepared to stand for second best, which is why he cleared out a lot of under or occasional performers and players with the wrong attitude. Just look at Sahin as an example, was given game time (which he wasn't getting at RM) came here and thought he was Mr Big B*llocks. Brendan was like - See ya! lol

  39. I think a player is affected by his transfer fee when he plays poorly because that's when he's going to hear the boos.

    My opinion is that it's tougher for a player to play poorly and turn his play around to play better, than for a player to play well and continue to play well.  Purely a momentum thing.  In the case of Hendo and Downing, they started off in a rough way (aside from Hendo's goal against Bolton), and were never really able to get it going from there.  And then when they would make a play here or a play there, it would get overlooked because the perception was that they were doing more harm than good.

    Of course, that's just my opinion.  It's easier for a player to adapt to a new environment when he performs well from the outset.

  40. BR is definitely full of himself. Sometimes it works for him and sometimes it works against him.

  41. I am glad some one has the balls to tell the "brutal truth" and yes it is certainly always brutal. I am no football pundit nor am i someone who people traditionally defer to when it comes to foot-balling matters but i can safely say that Joe Allen has failed to make an impact since joining Liverpool. The Welshman is notorious i believe for giving the ball away at the wrong time  during an attacking move.(he is not alone in that regard). He is really not as effective in the offensive third. Don 't know how he pulled it off at Swansea but his talent hasn't translated over to Anfield. 

    Rumor has it that Rodgers is in for Ben Arfa in the summer. It would certainly indicate that Allen will have more bench time coming. If Ben Arfa from Newcastle is indeed coveted by Liverpool it's hard to see him not starting for us. 

    As painful as it is for some people to hear it is realistic to say that the Allen transfer was a failure. We all know that Allen himself was not seen as a first choice option for Rodgers who really had his heart set on Icelandic former player Gyfi Siggurdson. We all know that Siggurdson turned us down for what he says was a "bigger team." Allen then became Rodgers next choice as he became more determined to sign somebody from his old club. 

    The thing Allen has going for him is that his playing days are still very much in front of him so he can eventually pick his game up and take it to the next level. His destiny is clearly in his hands.

  42. He has only scored one goal for Liverpool Doran Snarpiri. I think that sums it up really. Sturridge came on shortly and he has scored how many times? You either have the talent or you don't. Compared to other players playing in his position Allen has the least impact when it comes to going forward and supporting the attack. Let's get Ben Arfa already

  43. I can't believe you have resorted to using euro currency for dramatic effect in a headline. Horrendous.

  44.  enrique dropped form Anteater...its a positional and style factor with Allen.....if allen was at  the very best of his form i just cant see a nich for him hes a very particular type of player that you have to build a team around ...here is the crux of the problem Rogers says he likes versatile players but Allen is the least versatile member of the entire squad ....

  45. Can you give an example?

  46. Allen did alright at the start, but his form has dropped. I think we did over pay, by about 5mil. I also don`t think we really need him, but I don`t think he is as bad as people make out, just a easy scape goat. When Lucas was out, he covered that role well. I don`t have him down as a first team starter tho, so do agree maybe the money could have been spent better else where.

  47. I agree JK that where does he fit in this team.? I still say he will come good . Only Give the boy some time. 

  48. We didn't match what was being asked for Siggurdson, not his transfer fee or salary. We ended up paying more for Allen. There is still some reason to believe that Siggurdson would have turned us down anyway because we're not CL contenders but the reality is that we just didn't want him that badly. If we did we would have upped the offers we made to get him. So to say that Rodgers truly wanted Siggurdson instead of Allen isn't true. Rodgers could not move for Allen until another club did due to the promise he made not to poach players. Siggurdson was available despite that because he didn't push through the permanent transfer to Swansea. 

    So no, we don't "all know that Siggurdson turned down us for what he says was a bigger team". That's one excuse and one answer, it's your way of trying to make sense of why we didn't sign the player. The more important truth is that Rodgers put a value on Siggurdson and the asking price exceeded that amount. The value he put on Allen was much much higher, showing clearly that Rogders wanting Allen that much more. Go back and check for yourself what Rodgers actually said on the matter and you'll see that it's the case. 

  49. Lucas and Alonso are two midfield players who have displayed droppable form for LFC over the years. Lucas was a disappointment to most people for the better part of 2-3 years. Alonso had a bad season that had many of us pointing the finger of blame for why we were unable to challenge for the title. Now maybe Allen is expected to arrive as the finished article but in truth all he's done is show a period of poor form that extends for no more than a few months, not even an entire season. To conclude from just a handful of games that he's not compatible, inflexible, a transfer failure ... it's just a complete knee-jerk reaction. He's had a tough time, but I give him every chance of coming back and being a much much better player. It seems like we're judging all our players at the bottom of their capabilities, when they are at their worst. Doesn't it make sense to allow some time for this to change before making any conclusions? And what really is the problem in Allen spending some time on the bench while we're still playing OK football?

  50. I accepted he is in bad form, and this is why BR dropped him(rightly so, and should have done so sooner), but I believe the player have the talent to succeed.

    I only say to keep things in proportions - and to not destroy their confidence.

    Also your argument is not the strongest I have seen. A striker is better placed in the pitch to score goals, and that is his main job, whereas midfielders are not only being judged on that front(and in our method there are supposed to be at least 4 players further up the pitch from the central midfielders). 
    Also, Sturridge is a year older than him, and have grown in bigger clubs than Swansea. He also received a lot of attention growing up - and had learnt to deal with the pressure, rather than being thrown into the big pool later on.
    I do agree he needs to contribute more though.
    By the way, I looked up a few of our best midfielders of the last decade's stats. Stevie G's stats from 10 years ago, when he was Allen's age- scored 7 and assisted 8. Would be impressive from any of our midfielders, and he was just 22 at the time. Xabi Alonso's stats from that age sums with 4 goals out of 43 appearances. Hamann never scored or assisted many for us, and he was still a class act. Neither did Mascher. Lucas scored 3 and assisted 4 and still got a lot of stick. Sissoko had no goals or assists at the age of 22 when he played for us(but maybe he's not a good comparison).

    Lucas is a fine example of a midfielder that should have performed sooner, but eventually came to terms with the expectations, even though in terms of end product, as seen above, he has done fairly ok(when I compare him to our young midfielders). That's what I'm critisizing here.

    About Ben Arfa - I have actually read an interesting article about him yesterday, that have analyzed his contribution to all parts of the game. The conclusion was that he is a fairly consistent attacking player who creates a decent amount of chances, assists and goals, but is lacking in terms of possession and defence. He actually have a NEGATIVE impact in those two. The overall said he does have such a high attacking presence that his contribution is always(except for one short dip in form he had this season) positive. 
    I would like to see him play for us, but who will he replace? We have Suarez and Sturridge who play immensly together. and Downing, Coutinho Borini, Sterling and Suso(and Assaidi??) fighting for a place in the wing. Should he come, what will be with those last five? I agree Downing might be dispensable, while Borini deserves another season in my opinion to prove himself because of his injury. I like Sterling, and Suso even more. I also hope Coutinho could provide more options up front. While I like Ben Arfa, I don't know if that's the kind of player to spend our money on at the moment. I prefer us signing a quality CB and a quality replacement to the error-prone Reina with those funds.

    P.S. You spelled my name wrong :P

  51. im not repetive. read my posts when we first bought him and others above. very consistent and true.

  52. oops repetative 

  53. I think Joe Allen is much2 better than Henderso and Downing.They are over 15 to 20 milion pound but cannot give nothing in first season.Only expensive salary with only passenger in LFC team.Very fair to give times. Joe Allen need times and he already prove that in begining of season.He can operate as versatile player,why not let him try to operate left or right winger sometimes?LFC can used him with many option and very worth to sign him.This season LFC must monitor out performance Downing,Borini,Carroll,Henderson very closely.And sell out the players cannot hit the form.No need to keep in store deadwood players.CDM position need to add 1 more player.

  54. Allen is a decent player, though not sure of £15mn standard.  However, I find lot of reasoning for his purchase

    BR worked with him earlier & in a new club wanted to start with players of his knowledge.  Allen could be a perfect example of "Big fish in a small pond", like Downing or Adam, but he is much younger than Downing & much, much better than Adam. 

    Allen is considered home grown; with lack of quality English players, this is going to be a challenge for every BPL club in future.  Quality Home Grown players 'll cost obnoxious money.  Cole is gone & carra 'll retire soon; I don't expect Shelvey, Downing, Spearing, Carroll even Henderson to stay with us - 8 over21 Home Grown player 'll be an issue in future.

    Soon (even maybe next year), LFC 'll be playing 60+ matches a season & surely we 'll need a squad of 23-25 good players.  A lot of those 'll not start in PL matches, might not even sit on bench regularly.  At the same time you need good bench strength.  If we take quality players from top Football countries as squad player, dissatisfaction 'll be there because, being on the bench doesn't help young & talented players in terms of International Cap.  In a squad, we need players from smaller countries, who are decent to good, but 'll not be unhappy sitting or coming from bench as that doesn't cost his International place (Simple, despite sitting on LFC bench all season, Allen 'll start for Wales in every match, but not the case for Borini or Henderson).  This is one are SAF was a master - along with the top players, he had Ole Gunner, O'Shea, Fletcher, Yorke & many others, who were never good enough for MU of 90s & 00s, but gave the squad depth.  Had Ole Gunner been German or Dutch, would have never stayed 12 years in MU to play 15 mins occasionally, because then he won't have played 67 Internationals.  We need Allen like players from Scandinavia, East Europe, Africa & British Isles, Central America, even Asia & Oceania to keep a deep & happy squad.     

    He must be at a lower salary (less than £50k/week, I expect) for 5 years contract.  At 22, he can improve in next 1-2 years & can compensate his higher fee (even £10k/week additional = almost £3mn over 5 years).  Instead of buying someone like Cole, Jova'vic or Voronin for free at high salary, I would always take potential young players at higher transfer but lower salary.

  55. all i have said is we overpaid,were on this post do i state hes crap???have done before but you should have pulled that post

  56. First of all just because Lawreson says we overpaid, doesn't mean we did. The man has never managed a team in his life yet he's seen as some sort of expert when it comes to football players. Just because he was half decent himself and had the luck to play next to a true footballing legend that was Alan Hansen, he isn't an authority all of a sudden. Second of all I think it's safe to say Allen hasn't had a huge impact on our results, that's why he's on the bench now. Judging this transfer needs more time though. If he comes good, 15 million will be a steal. If he doesn't, then we can label the transfer a failure. What gives me hope though is that Rodgers, at last, is not afraid to drop the players he's brought in if another one is better. Something that can not be said about the four guys before him.

  57. I find "full of himself" a bit harsh, but probably all football managers are very self-confident. And they have to be. If they weren't, if they were full of doubt, it wouldn't work. Which player would listen to the instructions of a manager who is openly insecure.

  58. Allen's form dropped, too, gilstrap.

    For the rest of your comment, well, you could be wrong or you could be right. Time will tell. I don't think that Allen is a player one has to build a team around.

  59. Agree with the turning play around part. It's also easier to perform well coming into a team that is full of confidence, plays well and is successful. Given our league form in the latter part of last season, these circumstances were probably not there. Our team wasn't very settled either. Constant changes to the playing personnel don't let a squad settle. That, too, is a hindrance when it comes to performing in a new team.

    I really don't know about the transfer fee affecting a player. It surely can happen in some cases, in other cases it won't affect the player.

    The "Welsh Xavi". Well, I think Rodgers simply said that to illustrate how Allen can play. Wales is not Spain, so I didn't expect him to be exactly as good as Xavi. Rodgers probably won't read what fans have to say on the internet (no manager has the time to do it I guess), but if he did, he'd probably have learned not to make such statements (ones which can be interpreted in one way or another). All it does is giving people who want to beat him a stick.

  60. I won't go through your comment history in order to find out whether your posts are consistent.

    "True"? Are you trying to sell me your individual opinion as an universally valid truth?

  61. As a regular Anfield attendee over the last 30 years and having followed the Reds around Europe including 3 European cup finals I am very slow to criticise any of our players because in the main I believe they are all trying their very best for our great club, however (and I know many will disagree with me) does anyone agree with me that Lucas brings little to the team in general, there's no doubt the lad tries his best and he's got the clubs best interest in mind but were reaching a critical stage in the latest Anfield chapter where we need to move to the next level, I've watched Lucas intently over the last few months (since he returned from injury) in the hope that maybe I'm missing something, but I have failed to see it, missed passes, badly timed tackles, 2nd to 50-50's and regularly conceding free's in dangerous positions....Allen has disappointed after a promising start and I'm not advocating he come straight back in but over the next couple of games where we should dominate keep a close eye on Lucas and see what you think, I often wish we still had a Danny Murphy or Alonso in there, pass the ball, tackle and score regularly.

    Unlike the majority of premiership supporters we are very loyal to all our players and it's not my intention to just have a pop at Lucas but consistently I believe he doesn't contribute enough, unfortunately I don't believe he's capable of it either.....if I'm proved wrong I'll be the first to acknowledge it.


  62. Totally, there's a huge difference in being confident and decisive and being arrogant. I wouldn't consider BR to be arrogant/full of himself, I also don't get how that would ever work, especially with his level of experience and the magnitude of our club.

  63. Henderson and Lucas are our best water carriers. Allen can only really be considered cover. However, I would argue that his price is justifiable, for a reliable cover that allows us to rest tired players, especially in open games or if we're already up.

  64. Indeed. Hardly any player would put in a performance if they thought the manager was arrogant, be it a youth, amateur or professional level. It worked for Mourinho, though, so far. I'd consider him as arrogant and full of himself.

  65. If anything, he is a better player than Adam, fitter than Aquilani, is less wasteful than Sissoko, less error prone than Lucas in his first 2 seasons and more involved than Hendo in his first! And doesn't lose the ball as often as Shelvey or Gerrard. Not the most outstanding in any department by a longshot, but definitely great cover!

  66. Lawro, along with Nicol, must be one of the worst experts out there who constantly have a say about our club.

  67. Lucas is a decent player, but you are probably right that we tend to overrate him quite a bit. His position is one of those we could need an upgrade come the Summer (the others are, obviously, goal-keeper, second left-back, centre-backs).

  68. The chief difference is that Lucas and Hendo are grafters who are supremely fit and their games are based on their ability to win the ball back and run around with it, and both of them are actually very pacy. Allen is a little too easy to press and it is no surprise his dip in form coincided with his game being found out!

    When Allen starts, the other team just pins 2 players on him at all times to force sloppy backpasses. He was great in the first part of the season because he was new and no one knew what to expect from him in our starting lineup. On the other hand, it is always a hard ask for anyone to work harder than Lucas or Hendo, unless you're James Milner or Wayne Rooney.

  69. Theoriginalbigbod could hardly be more wrong.

    It's embarrassing to have so many fan make up their mind without checking if they are right, and go along with the herd while spouting untruths.
    Whether they believe it to be true or not, I don't know - but any decent person should check their facts before slating our own player. You aren't the only one to do it in comment sections here and elsewhere, but I'll deal with yours now because it's at hand.

    You say:"he has no skill, no pace, no tactical awareness, no tenacity, no physical presence, cannot tackle - in effect nothing to add to the side"
    Reality: BR knows exactly what he wants from his players and one big reason he brought Allen was because of that tactical awareness to his sytem and to help the others pick it up quicker.
    He has wonderful skill and control in tight spaces under pressure, so unusual for British players.
    When playing every game for the first 1/3 approx of the season he was winning the ball back more than any player in the entire league. Obviously this makes a complete mockery of the rest of your sentence. The only player who may win possession more is the one he was covering or - Lucas.
    Can everyone please remember this in future? It's frustrating to see fans get it 100% wrong again and again about Allen when he played DM for us.

    "most of his passes are backwards and anything longer than 5 yards miss the target "
    Reality: of the most accurate players to compete over 1000 passes, Allen played the lowest % backwards AND the highest percentage forward. Individually of the 4 directions to pass, he plays the LOWEST % backwards.
    He completes long passes at virtually the same rate as short ones. 9/10 successful.
    Can everyone remember this too?

    Look,people can have their own view on players that's fine.
    They cannot however have their own facts.
    Facts are based in reality and must be taken into account if a view is to be taken seriously by a thinking person.

  70. I agree with you. On Lucas as a person but also as a player. He's supposed to be a holding midfielder but if you compare him to someone like Mascherano the difference is blatantly obvious. I'm not sure Allen would be a better option either. Calling him the Welsh Xavi may be a bit over the top, but more importantly, Lucas plays in the Busquets role so we need "the insert nationality here Busquets". For some reason Africa brings forward a lot of good defensive/holding midfielders. Probably because of the built, athleticism and endurance needed for it. So I hope we've had our scouts at the Africa CON because the solution to our problem may very well have played there.

  71. Lucas when fit and firing is possibly the best defensive mid in the league watch a few old games.
    With Allen he could be a good player given time certainly will try not to be too judgemental too soon but but his skills around the box leave a lot to be desired.

  72. You should set up your own site mate. Excellent comment, if only a few more of our 'so called' fans had the same intelligent and balanced view. Far to many simply slag of a player or the team with wild statements that aren't backed up and then don't back down when the facts are pointed out.

  73. Im not selling anything mate.
    Just trying to tell you you make me smile lol

  74. It's their club too, is it not?

  75. It's one of the clubs they have played for to be precise.

    My comment wasn't meant to question their allegiance. Simply wanted to rule out experts who don't have a say about our club constantly.

  76. Greg, I know where your coming from and I hate arguing with fellow Red's supporters but if you look at what BR  is trying to achieve with a predominantly 4-3-3 formation we need creativity as well, I'm not suggesting Messi, Xavi or Bale as options, but a premiership midfielder in what should be a top 4 team needs to contribute his fair share, for example -
    Season         Minutes played        Assists
    2012/13              836                    1
    2011/12              1043                  4
    2010/11              2855                  12
    07/10                 5245                  0

    With the exception of 2010/11 this return for a CM in my view is not good enough for LFC in any era, a squad player yes a regular starter very doubtful, Phil Neville has the same number of assists in the last 2 seasons, Charlie Adam has had 23.

    Even in the last couple of games when facing quality opposition 2 goals were not enough and we were lucky to hold on against Arsenal, when we are attacked through the middle it's frighting how much space we concede, against the lower ranked teams we are getting away with it but if we really aspire to a top 4 spot and champions league again we need a strong midfield, an area Liverpool teams have had for the last 40yrs have always had.

    Lucas Levia appears to be a good lad and certainly helped Suarez settle in on Merseyside when he initially arrived, as previously stated I very much dislike criticising a decent bloke playing for LFC but we've spent to long now playing 2nd fiddle to clubs with no history or real fan base, Liverpool have had to many false dawns (Istanbul an exception) top 4 in the next 1-1/2 seasons is a must if we are going to attract quality players and (more importantly) hang on to Suarez, etc.

    We need a big strong 6ft plus CM, comfortable on the ball who can defend and be an attacking option at set pieces, if Coutinho works out as we hope we are only 2-3 more players short of a quality starting 11, I for one am getting tired of mid-table finishes, we have a young manager with good ideas and a lot of promising young players, time to move to the next level before we're left behind again.

  77. What a fool patouz 27. He did a 40 yard pass forbenglan u21 mid week. Annoys me when fickle people commentbthat dont really watch him play. Prawn sandwich fan comes to mind

  78. Rodgers needs to 'rest' Aleen again

  79. Agreed, but only if you compare Hendo's last couple of monthes :)

    Also - I still don't think anyone gets to Kuyt's work rate when he played for us(without mentioning his efficiency/inefficiency).

  80. Yes we did pay over the odd thats has never been in doubt but I believe Allen deserves abit of time to prove himself. He clearly is a good player just not playing at the top of his game. Have the Olympics had anything to do with his dip in form?

    Also ex players of the likes of Lawrs should really keep their mouths shut especially as he falls into the great player knows s##t about managing catagory himself!!!!

  81. Give Allen time.  If we are prepared to give Rodgers time, then we have to give Allen time too. 

  82. Watch Being: Liverpool

  83. theoriginalbigbod@yahoo.com4:13 pm, February 08, 2013

    is that right? perhaps you should go and watch him and count - as a season ticket holder of many many years i know what i've seen and what i have seen is what i described - maybe he was ok at swansea but i've seen very little evidense of any class playing for liverpool - and that's what i'm interested in - perhaps rodgers has noticed it too - maybe that's why he doesn't play him - and we certainly play better without him

  84. Jaimie, your last sentence summed up everything very beautifully...

    And for expensive cover as defensive midfielder, he just does not cut it...
    It may work against the lesser teams, but when you go against big, tall and strong players, he is totally outplayed...

    Borini is another waste of space... 

    How could people pay so much for these players...

    The only plausible explanation: An IQ that even donkeys would be ashamed of... 

  85. Well, what you've stated was demonstrably false as I've shown you with actual FACTS.

    But you've got a season ticket?

    Clearly the perfect storm of opportunity, available finance and interest in buying one make your subjective opinion more important than the objective reality.

    The 'as a season ticket holder' argument.

  86. theoriginalbigbod@yahoo.com1:24 pm, February 09, 2013

    no - just some guy who pays his wages - not someone who sounds a bit like rafa - and we all kn ow what happened to him

  87. sissoko for 3m and michu for 2m. enough said.

  88. I'm not sure debating football is really your calling mate.

  89. theoriginalbigbod@yahoo.com9:52 am, February 11, 2013

    bye bye, little boy - time for beddy boos