It's now three days after Liverpool's defeat to Manchester United, and the manner of the first-half capitulation still sticks in the throat. According to some Reds fans, Nemanja Vidic's winning goal should've been disallowed for offside, but Anfield legend Dietmar Hamann has urged fans to stop trying to make excuses, and claimed that the Reds were lucky to avoid a couple of damaging refereeing decisions.
Discussing the game, Hamann insisted that 'You can't go to Old Trafford, only turn up for the 2nd half and expect to get something out the game', but praised the club's second half fightback. He said:
"They [Liverpool] showed a lot of spirit. Not many teams come back from two down at Old Trafford. The team will have learned a lot today"
However, the Kaiser rejected the contention that Vidic's goal was offside, and argued that Liverpool were lucky to avoid a double sending-off. He observed:
"There is no if in football and please stop blaming the Ref. [Martin] Skrtel should have been sent off and [Glen] Johnson could have gone too"
Skrtel got booked for dragging down Dany Welbeck in the 52nd minute, and to be fair, the United striker would've been through on goal if he hadn't been fouled, so Hamann is possibly right here.
If the same thing happened at the other end, I'm sure Liverpool fans would be screaming about refereeing conspiracies and Howard's Webb's alleged pro-United bias.
Glen Johnson received a booking in the 75th minute for scything down Patrice Evra, but I can't see how that challenge warranted a red card, though he did make several other chalenges during the game that could've warranted a second yellow.
Jaimie Kanwar
Discussing the game, Hamann insisted that 'You can't go to Old Trafford, only turn up for the 2nd half and expect to get something out the game', but praised the club's second half fightback. He said:
"They [Liverpool] showed a lot of spirit. Not many teams come back from two down at Old Trafford. The team will have learned a lot today"
However, the Kaiser rejected the contention that Vidic's goal was offside, and argued that Liverpool were lucky to avoid a double sending-off. He observed:
"There is no if in football and please stop blaming the Ref. [Martin] Skrtel should have been sent off and [Glen] Johnson could have gone too"
Skrtel got booked for dragging down Dany Welbeck in the 52nd minute, and to be fair, the United striker would've been through on goal if he hadn't been fouled, so Hamann is possibly right here.
If the same thing happened at the other end, I'm sure Liverpool fans would be screaming about refereeing conspiracies and Howard's Webb's alleged pro-United bias.
Glen Johnson received a booking in the 75th minute for scything down Patrice Evra, but I can't see how that challenge warranted a red card, though he did make several other chalenges during the game that could've warranted a second yellow.
Jaimie Kanwar
That's really funny. Dietmar says that we should stop blaming the ref and in the next sentence, indirectly, blames the ref for not sending off two of our players.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that Welbeck would have reached the ball, so he wouldn't have been clean through on goal. No, he actually would have been clean through, but without the ball. I also think that he went down easily. No red for me, sorry, even though after first viewing the incident I thought he might walk for that.
Johnson may or may not have earned himself a second yellow. Only guessing here, but maybe that is what Dietmar is on about.
What he meant was Glen J could have had a second yellow and I don't really see any Liverpool fans saying that there was a conspiracy or that many making excuses.
ReplyDeleteHe is talking about Glen J's rugby tackle on Valencia later on in the match.
ReplyDeletejohnson rugby tackled valencia in the dying stages which definitely deserved a yellow card, lucky the ref was lenient otherwise we would be without a proper full back without the injured enrique and suspended johnson
ReplyDeleteJohnson had already been booked
ReplyDeleteGeez we were dismal hey!
ReplyDeleteThat first half was the worst I've seen since Hodgeson!
I think Agger was late o the first goal and so was Johnson on the second. Liverpool played a good football only after the 2nd United goal. This shows that LFC can play fantastic football but can't understand why such attitude in the first half...Moreover this does look promising for the future...I believe we can clinch the 4th spot. As for the refs...well they have always favoured United, so I guess if LFC scored the first goal, we would have seen the ref from a different angle...it's only a guess!
ReplyDeletejohnson could have got two yellow cards skirtels would have been harsh,i think what hamann is saying is there are no excuses for the perthetic display,vidics goal might have the slightest touch of offside about it ,but wisdom could have easerly have given a penalty away,but rodgers just comes out with crap about how brilliant we was and we deserved a draw,basically hamanns seeing through rodgers bull
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how you always write "Liverpool fans" as if you're telling us you're not one.
ReplyDeleteI've been wondering for years why we often only start playing football in the second half of matches. Is the entitlement mentality that a few of our fans have also present in the heads of some of our players ("We are Liverpool, the opposition should and will roll-over")?
ReplyDeleteDietmar is referring to the incident where Glenn Johnson dragged down a Man Untd player that should have earned him a second booking. It was given as a free kick to United and based on that decision, Johnson should have walked. However, in my opinion the fthe United player committed the initial foul to get ahead of Johnson and the free kick should have gone Liverpools way - the advantage of replay which the ref does not have. Fortunately this ended up being a non issue and the ref had a good game.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool seemed to have pyched themselves out for the match and only really settled down once they were 2 - 0 behind and no longer had the pressure of having to get something of the game. If only they could start all matches with the attitude they had in the last 30 minutes.
I thought GJ may have been pulled back first but wouldnt have moaned if he`d have got a second red - I`d say this though - I doubt any ex man u players would ever break ranks and say anything detrimental about them - to many ex-reds become pundits - and BTW it WAS offside, I think we`re entitled to a little moan about that one having been the victim of a couple of really bad calls recently - swings and roundabouts anyone ?
ReplyDeleteOf course you can blame the ref, its his job to ref the game. If he missed it then its his fault or the linesman. I dont actually know if it was offside though, I havent seen it.
ReplyDeleteSame as you can blame the ref if he got those decisions wrong.
4th spot....yeah right!
ReplyDeleteSkrtel's was never a red, Wellbeck was never getting the ball, so he was not through on goal . Hamann is not suggesting Johnson should have gotten a straight red, two seperate yellow card offences. No disrespect Jaimie but these kind of elementary errors suggest only one thing
ReplyDeleteThe 3 that should have been sent off was Allen and Downing for serious Nagative and poor play!
ReplyDeleteOh and wisdom for the obvious goal denying push :)
I don't think that Skrtel deserve a red card for this action because Welbeck was not on a direct action and Agger was the last player.But Carrick deserve a yellow card for the tackle on Sterling.
ReplyDeleteWisdom was clearly at fault for allowing evra the space for The first goal.
ReplyDeleteBut he's not first choice and young so he will learn.
Is it a managerial strategy? Coz it does not work. Does LFC lack good wingers, or our midfield distribution is not developing the game as expected? Needless to say that with a sole striker, LFC looks like an easy to tame tiger...With a second striker, suddenly the opposition started to break...So is Fatigue our worst enemy?? and therefore we preserve everything for the last 30min or so...surely this won't get us far, will it?? Why such prudence??
ReplyDeleteHodgson? Worst I've seen since the Villa and Stoke a few weeks ago.
ReplyDeleteAnd Young could have been sent off for his two footed lunge on Agger that resulted in Young being substituted.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if we,d have been leading the match wether some of these decisions would have gone against us, at the end of thr day that first half was humiliating & playin ok once the mental shackles were off doesnt really compensate for it
ReplyDeleteNonsense. What else should I write?
ReplyDelete"If the same thing happened at the other end, I'm sure Liverpool fans would be screaming about refereeing conspiracies"
Why don't you rewrite that sentence and show me what phrase I should've used instead of 'Liverpool fans'.
Skrtels wasnt a red and the ref actually consulted the linesman via his mic before making the decision on if it was a red or a yellow, there is a few seconds where Howard Webb stops and talks into his mic before giving the yellow.
ReplyDeleteno way welbeck was going to get the ball, a good decision by webb. the johnson tackle is very debatable, and thus, inconclusive. nothing much you can do about the vidic goal, these things happen, and man utd deserved it anyway. it would have been impossible for officials to spot the offside i reckon.
ReplyDeleteI was worried about Webb before the match but what happened on Sunday was all down to us. Like Hamann says, you can't only show up for 45 minutes, more like 30 really, at OT and expect to get something from the game. The fact that him and the likes of Downing and Rodgers then go on to say that Liverpool have learned from the game sickens me. There's nothing to learn. If you don't get that the Man U and derby games are the four games where you can't go missing, not even for a minute, you don't belong at LFC in the first place. The sooner Downing leaves the better and BR is one transfer window away from ending up on the shed list too.
ReplyDeleteI think they were worse than that in the first half!
ReplyDeleteSwapping 'Liverpool fans' to 'our fans' springs to mind.
ReplyDelete"Our fans" That's how I would automatically have wrote it.
ReplyDeletewithout better players we wil win nothing . same players keep making same mistakes.transfer policy will notwork
ReplyDeleteWell, as I've said, I don't have a clue why it happens that we often only turn up after half-time, but it is something I have noticed for several years. It is nothing new.
ReplyDeleteConspiracy, I tell yer
ReplyDeleteTwo red cards and a penalty denied - you were quick to sign up Webb in the transfer window
I never use phrases like 'our fans'. It is too partisan for my liking; plus, by using that, the inference is I am part of the group who would be moaning about the decision, and the opposite is true. I hate the refereeing conspiracy cobblers, and do not want to be associated with the victim complex so many fans buy into.
ReplyDeleteThat's probably because you strongly identify with the majority fanbase view on things, whereas I do not.
ReplyDeletethe worst till the next inept performance,which at this rate will not be far away ;-)
ReplyDeleteThat's a call you couldn't possibly begin to make after reading just two comments from me. If you love something you will naturally want to identify with it, your articles lack that and it seems you have a "me against everyone else" mentality.
ReplyDeleteLol, were tryin to sign clattenberg as well
ReplyDeleteI thought overall Howard Webb got most things pretty right.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think he is referring to that particular incident. Looking back at it, it was actually Valencia who started that foul because he barged into Johnson exactly as Johnson was about to shoot the ball. Consequently, Johnson kicked Valencia instead and brought him down. If anything, that should have been a foul for us.
ReplyDeleteWebb had a good game, he was balanced, consistent and his style did not favour a particular team. The linesman was another story because apart from the goal, he also missed about two corners for us.
With all this being said, we deserved to lose and being totally honest, the referee's and linesman's decisions cost us nothing. You can't blame them for our first goal and we were treated fairly for the free kick. In the end, we could have got a draw as well and we only have ourselves to blame for not nicking that game from them.
Well there you go. No Liverpool fan would ever write victim complex in describing Liverpool fans. United were singing vile songs something similar.Why don't you write articles about the team you do support? I'm just curious.
ReplyDeleteAll I see is my fellow supporters pushing blame on innocent victims when clearly we simply are not good enough and have not been good enough for a long time now. Simple solution, Lucas, Allen, Borini, Henderson, Downing are terrible and not fit to wear the shirt. That is 5 first team players. The most we can get this season is 6th place, unless we sign a few more players in the January window, notable Wesley Sniedjer.
ReplyDeleteWisdom's 2nd half performance was very good and signs are encouraging with him. We lack pace in defence and he definitely has this.
Sturridge got a lot of Tommy Smith treatment from some lfc fans and he has shot them all with 2 in 2. I am so glad and I hope he continues his success which I think he will most definitely
I think Skrtel is saved because Reina is well off his line. The ball was going pretty fast and Reina would of gotten to it first before both Welbeck and Skrtel.
ReplyDeleteJohnson got a bit lucky because although Valencia made the initial foul the ref could of missed that and Webb could of only seen the rugby tackle...It was a foul though and United got the free kick anyways. Didn't really effect the result, Johnson gave away a chance for us and that's it really.
I think he's referring to the incident at the end of the first half where he gets caught out and cuts across the back of Rafael (similar to the penalty inident with Valencia at Anfield last year). Rafael stayed on his feet, but if he had gone down and a penalty had been given, he could have been sent off as last man.
ReplyDeleteI love reading lpool sites they are so funny,this one is quite funny but rawk is hilarious.....its all a conspiracy.....haha
ReplyDeleteActually, very often we only start playing football when we're chasing the game and usually from a very bad position. By then, usually too late. It's a lack of the winning mentality - grab the games by the scruff of the neck, rather than waiting for things to happen.
ReplyDeleteI think it should come against Oldham. But given our 'quality' and having the most balanced squad in the league, we shouldn't be so negative!
ReplyDeleteNever any meaningful content to your posts is there? why are you here? are you banned from united forums?
ReplyDeleteIf's and buts and excuses lets b honest we were well beaten things only got better towards the end of the game cause utd relaxed a bit with their two goal lead
ReplyDeleteah yes the words of a wise man (mr ayre) or a raving lunatic who needs commiting to save himself from doing himself a injury
ReplyDeleteNeither was a red card. And the Vidic goal was so close that while he was slightly offside, I can't fault the referee. It was the slightest of margins and wasn't a "clear" play as he was deflecting Evra's header. It's bang-bang. It's really just a shame that our set piece defense was putrid.
ReplyDeleteI thought Webb did a very good job on Sunday overall.
The bigger issues were the team selection and the fact that we decided to start playing 50 minutes in. ManU deserves the recognition of taking advantage. They played well enough to win or draw. We played well enough to draw or lose. Unfortunately, we didn't get a point.
By the way, I think it's worthwhile to commend Suarez's efforts last week. For all the flak he gets for his "antics", he didn't dive even when he was surrounded by 3 defenders late, and he didn't carry on with any histrionics.
ReplyDeleteIf people are going to complain about him for what he does wrong, we should at least recognize when he's trying to do right.
Spot on.. thought I was the only one who put him at fault for the first goal..
ReplyDeleteI was digusted the way he turned his back on a straight on pass(not a shot!) acroos the box.. Nasriesque..
Lad went down a lot in my estimation after that, can't stand cowardice like this in players.. especially when the guy is built like a tank !!
We have signed shed loads of players over last 2 decades who think they've made it by just signing for us....
ReplyDeleteGerrard let Kagawa wander past him and just stood there. Downing then had to leave Evra to cover Kagawa, Evra whips in an easy ball.
ReplyDeleteGerrard stood still watching the whole time
If Hamann had made that clear, we wouldn't need to speculate which incident he had in mind.
ReplyDeleteWe actually did that in Rafa's first season, the grabbing the game by the scuff of the neck, in the CL at least. Don't know why it stopped later.
ReplyDeleteThere is some truth in your statement for sure.
ReplyDeleteHow about Downing leaving Wisdom alone to defend two areas
ReplyDeleteJust rewatching it.. Am I blind or it is Downings fault
ReplyDeleteThe last oppurtunity(obviously I agree others were partly responsible in the build up) to cut out the attack before the pass became an assist fell to Wisdom..Absolutely no excuse for turning your back on the ball anywhere, not to mention the edge of the box .. END OF.
ReplyDeleteThe ball wasn't 'whipped in' it was a pass that never left the ground.. the lad should have stood him up and got a block in .. not turn his back.
I'd accepted Johnson getting sent off, but I think the Skrtel decision is about right.
ReplyDeleteWhat difference does it make? The objective of this article is if we agree or not with Didi's comments?Why divert into this .........?
ReplyDeleteYup. We were lucky on some of his decisions. The truth of the matter is we just played rubbish football for 45 mins. That cost us dearly. Buck got his tactics and team sheet all wrong. We did not deserve to win at OT. I hope the superstars at the club will realize they fcuked up big time. That includes Mr. Rodgers.
ReplyDeleteShouldn't "not diving" and "not doing histrionics" be the norm, i.e., go without saying or praising it but I guess its the way football has progressed/regressed, that some see the need to praise someone for not falling or diving. Generally, no, I don't agree that we should praise Suarez for not diving.
ReplyDelete