Liverpool legend Steve Nicol has accused Michael Owen of hypocrisy after the former Manchester United benchwarmer forward labelled Chelsea striker Fernando Torres a 'diver'.
After Chelsea's controversial 3-2 defeat to United on Sunday, Owen argued on his Twitter feed that Torres deserved to be sent off for his alleged dive.
Discussing the incident on ESPN, Nicol - who won every trophy under the sun at Liverpool - dismissed Owen's contention that Torres dived. He told ESPN:
"I have no idea what he [Owen] is talking about.
"He {Torres} goes down because he gets clattered in the shin by Jonny Evans!
"If someone kicks you in the shin, you’re going to go down anyway because of the pain.
"For Michael Owen to come out with that is a little but ironic considering he’s someone who’s ‘fallen over’ himself on a few occasions. Quite frankly, I don’s understand what he’s on about".
Did Torres dive? It's hard to tell. From the two angles below, it does look like Jonny Evans made contact with Torres' shin, but I'd hardly describe it as being 'clattered'.
There also seems to be a delayed reaction from Torres:
In a recent interview, Owen admitted that he'd cheated in the past to gain an advantage:
"I have been guilty as well, I played at the 1998 World Cup against Argentina and I was running flat out, got a nudge, went down. Could I have stayed up? Yes, probably.
If Evans made contact, does that then give Torres the right to dive? The answer should be no, but it seems to be accepted these days that if a defender makes contact with a player then that player is 'entitled' to go down.
So many ex-players - LFC players among them - have made the same argument, but what if the player can stay on his feet and goes down anyway? Is that not cheating?
In my view, Mark Clattenburg got the decision absolutely right: there probably was minor contact, but Torres could've stayed on his feet, but chose to hit the deck instead.
That is arguably cheating, and I feel he deserved a yellow card for it.
Jaimie Kanwar
After Chelsea's controversial 3-2 defeat to United on Sunday, Owen argued on his Twitter feed that Torres deserved to be sent off for his alleged dive.
Discussing the incident on ESPN, Nicol - who won every trophy under the sun at Liverpool - dismissed Owen's contention that Torres dived. He told ESPN:
"I have no idea what he [Owen] is talking about.
"He {Torres} goes down because he gets clattered in the shin by Jonny Evans!
"If someone kicks you in the shin, you’re going to go down anyway because of the pain.
"For Michael Owen to come out with that is a little but ironic considering he’s someone who’s ‘fallen over’ himself on a few occasions. Quite frankly, I don’s understand what he’s on about".
Did Torres dive? It's hard to tell. From the two angles below, it does look like Jonny Evans made contact with Torres' shin, but I'd hardly describe it as being 'clattered'.
There also seems to be a delayed reaction from Torres:
In a recent interview, Owen admitted that he'd cheated in the past to gain an advantage:
"I have been guilty as well, I played at the 1998 World Cup against Argentina and I was running flat out, got a nudge, went down. Could I have stayed up? Yes, probably.
If Evans made contact, does that then give Torres the right to dive? The answer should be no, but it seems to be accepted these days that if a defender makes contact with a player then that player is 'entitled' to go down.
So many ex-players - LFC players among them - have made the same argument, but what if the player can stay on his feet and goes down anyway? Is that not cheating?
In my view, Mark Clattenburg got the decision absolutely right: there probably was minor contact, but Torres could've stayed on his feet, but chose to hit the deck instead.
That is arguably cheating, and I feel he deserved a yellow card for it.
Jaimie Kanwar
who the hell is steve nicol? another rent-a-quote
ReplyDeleteI see where you're coming from but if that clip has impeded him from getting the ball before Rio then if he stays on his feet the ref will never give it so he has to go down, as refs only give fouls if you go down, I know this because I use to take a battering playing
ReplyDeletelooking at the ref's view it looks like an awful dive.
ReplyDeleteI feel the defenders are overprotected in set pieces. If the striker touches him its always a free out yet the defender is often seen tugging shirts in the box.
ReplyDeletethe rule is that if he is impeded it is a free kick, isn't getting kicked in the shins an impediment?
ReplyDeleteTo be fair to referee it does look like a dive from this angle eventhough from other different angles contact can be seen. So i think criticism of this referee has been really over the top because he gave what he saw and from his angle it definitely looks like a dive.
ReplyDeleteEvans clattered into Torres and should have been yellow carded resulting in 10 men for Manchester UTD as he already had a yellow card. The ref bottled it as he did throughout the game and yellow carded Torres. As Torres already had a yellow he was sent off.
ReplyDeleteThe ironic thing was that Manchester UTD should have had ten men and through a bad decision by the Ref Chelsea ended up with ten men.
To add another point Evans make these tackles regularly and watching the games this season should have been sent off at least twice.
Wow... Who is Nicol? Stick to netball sweetheart
ReplyDeletedon't know who steve nichol is? get yourself an education, you dork, and don't comment until you know what you're talking about!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with that Jaimie. It was a blatant attempt at getting a free-kick by falling over easily which, in my mind, equals cheating. I actually thought Clettenburg had a great game. There might have been a nudge of contact but it doesn't take away the fact he's a cheater just like our very own Luis Suarez (tounge in cheek an'all).
ReplyDeleteWho's Nicol? What a plank
ReplyDeleteAccording to BBC, who quoted the Fifa football rules, as long as there is contact, no card should be issued for diving. There was minimal contact and therefore, according to the law, no card should have been issued.
ReplyDeleteDiving is not as straight forward as a player taking the easy way out and diving to get an advantage. Sometimes, a player can decide to stay on his feet but be obviously impeded and as a result of his honesty, justice is not served.
Defenders like to accuse attackers of diving, but very often, they are tugging the attackers' shirt or stopping them using their hands. It's very rare that referees award such fouls unless the player being fouled dives to a make a statement he was unlawfully impeded.
Due to these grey areas, you have a lot of inconsistent refereeing in football, and given the competitive nature, everyone is trying to gain an advantage. It is laughable when professional players and managers take the moral high ground and accuse other players of cheating because very often, they cheat themselves, either by diving or by unlawful tackles, shirt tugging, obstructions etc...
Labelling only divers as cheats is wrong. Defenders cheat a lot with their hands to hold players back, yet that is somehow acceptable by the fans. Then, these fans argue that we have no consistency regarding decisions in football. Go figure. ;)
Ah Jesus.
ReplyDeleteHow embarassing
ReplyDeletehorrible angle to show the contact. that angle is biased in attempting to show a dive... there was clear contact.
ReplyDeleteWho in the hell is dj? Never hear of him?
ReplyDeleteOh my good god! This is a new level with the "cheating" obsession.
ReplyDeleteDo now a player is a cheat and deserves a card if he is fouled but doesn't stay on his feet?
Jaimie, really? Is all the storm around the Suarez debate and the amount of defending your opinion in the comments (completely respect that btw) clouding your normal thought process?
It just sounds silly - get fouled, go down, get labelled a cheat!
Nobody knows who this Steve Nicol guy is. But judging by his 'got clattered on the shin' comments, he isnt very bright.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but Torres should have been shown the red for his challenge on Cleverley who saved his bacon by getting straight up, so Evans wouldn't have had to make that challenge if Torres was already off the pitch.
ReplyDeleteIf you dont know steve Nicol you have never played the bag pipes.
ReplyDeletescored a great hat trick at Newcastle when you lot where kids
kettle and pot springs to mind!!!!
ReplyDeleteor worn size 13 footy boots !!!!
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you.
ReplyDeletetackle from johnny evans is a replica of his tackle on jonjo shelvey, 2 footed off the ground.
ReplyDeleteis he the golden boy of the fa or something.
as for owen, hes a little man with a little brain, hes obviously out of touch with the game havent hardly played over the last 10 years !!!
Don't really give a s**t but looked like a trip to me .
ReplyDeleteI can see a new catagory at seasons end awards do.
ReplyDeleteThere needs to be a clear indication, whether going down under minimal contact is classed as a foul or as a dive.
ReplyDeleteIf Torres tumble is seen as a dive, then everybody else needs to get yellow-carded for going down under minimal contact too from now on ....
It's simple as that ....
The biggest problem is that players feel they need to go down in order to be awarded the free kick. Whether Torres goes down or not shouldn't make a difference
ReplyDeleteStevey nicol was a Legendre full back for LFC That's Liverpool Football Club just in case You don't Know that but shoots his mouth off to quick must have been his long time in USA.
ReplyDelete"Who's Steve Nicol" ?.... Are they having a laugh??? Are they talking about Stevie '5 league titles, 3 FA cups and a European cup' Nicol from the 80s? Owen's a rat and Steve Nicol is more loyal and decorated than Owen could ever dream to be.
ReplyDeleteWith or without contact, has anyone noticed that Evans always goes in with two foot'd tackles. Imagine he'd made full contact with a tackle like that. He did it with Shelvey and he ended up screaming getting Shelvey sent off. But nothing ever said about him. Bottom line united games will always have controversy. Imo fergie has a hold over the refs in some way. One bad call could cost them their jobs if fergie speaks badly about them. I'm sure that's on their minds when making decisions. Just my view of it.
ReplyDeleteSorry but there is comment above about stopping someone from getting to the ball. Don't you consider it at least obstruction when a player has to high jump a tackle to stop him from being snapped when the tackle is late and the ball has gone. Those are hardly ever given there was one by the full back on Johnson in the Reading games which he never got but the defender clearly stopped his from getting to the ball by breaking his stride to avoid the contact and in some circumstances a broken leg. Johnny Evans caught Torres but more importantly broke his stride which means he has no chance of getting to the ball.
ReplyDeleteDefenders have always intimidated strikers and in the past strikers have given it back. The game has changed and with it the rules. Tackles from behind are outlawed as is the two footed tackle. Take a look at the Evans tackle again and see how he goes in, both feet. Look at the one with Shelvey and ask yourself is he the innocent party with his two footed approach.
With Evans there is a catalogue of these tackles unpunished. Anyway defending and attacking is just a games of cat and mouse with them both trying to get the upper hand. There have been periods when the rules have favour both sides but to balance things out each prataganist will adopt new way to minipulate the interpretation of the rules. Forwards now make the most of the contact which is made where they had just got on with it in years gone by. The defenders have to be more subtle in the way they cheat by pulling shirts and putting themselves in the way of players or as John Terry did against Barca putting his knee into the back of Alexi and missing his greatest moment in Munchen.
Way too often you say weird things Mr. Jamie. Evans hit Torres, you have not chosen the best video, I angle is bad, on other videos you can see clearly that Evans hit Torres, after all we can say like the fall was not natural, Torres added, then it falls into the assumptions, the only valid truth is that Torres was hit.
ReplyDeletespot on. evans wearing any other shirt would be pulled for those 2 tackles alone
ReplyDeletethe ref could not be any closer, so obvious torres nut megs evans and evans does not touch the ball and is 2 footed.
ReplyDeletehow much easier could it be. where is the standard in reffereeing, most games now depend on what ref is in charge and who he favours, that normally being the home team or man united.
if our game is supposed be becoming a more none contact sport (which i detest) why not bring in top refs from over europe to give them and our league a chance and a change, and for christ sake!! how bloody long till video tec comes in for every teams sake.
its simple and the corrupt fa are making a pigs ear of it.
Farmers have been known to give livestock 'angel dust' to increase body mass to get a better price for them at market. Some athletes have used similiar boosters to increase their speed and body strength - with disasterous long term results. However, I did not think they could affect your memory, honesty or logic as well. Perhaps we should now consider adding these to the list of side effects as well?
ReplyDeleteIf Steve Nicol is not entitled to proffer an opinion on the Evans/Torres event I cannot imagine who is! - That Liverpool fans should slight him in the way they have for so doing is shameful!
Overpaid pundits who have swamped the media with their views that defenders can no longer touch an attacker in the penalty box without incurring a penalty are largely responsible for the present silly position. We hear them say things like; 'He was touched so a penalty was right', 'He won a penalty'! Under the eagle (slow motion replay) eyes of these 'football rules experts' Tommy Smith would be awarded a lifetime ban and we would all have been deprived of seeing one of football's great defenders.
Only Evans and Torres know if a deliberate foul or dive occurred and I have seen no convincing evidence (in slow motion or real time) to make a judgement.
I would like to see the FIFA remove Managers and Fourth Officials from the sidelines and put them in the grandstands and allow only the teams coaches, physio's, doctors and reserves on the bench. Their presence is only for posturing and aggravation at present.
The Manager and Fourth Official would have a radio link with the Bench and Referee respectively to give advice. It seems TV cameras at present are more interested in Fergie and his gum and his argument with the Fourth Official than with action on the pitch.
Finally, FIFA must change it's Rules to require players to demonstrate that they tried hard to stay on their feet to continue playing before the Referee considers awarding a penalty. Bad foul tackles are obvious to all but too many soft free kicks and penalties are the scourge of football.
Guess its Ok for refs 2 make misstakes, but when you give a yellow card (specially a second) you better be damned sure of beeing correct. In that retrospect i feel the critisism is fair enough. Moreover if the ref has uttered any racist remarks then its really a serious matter. If you are resposible for the game not getting out of hand, then thats just plain stupid.
ReplyDeleteYour a d*mbcunt kwaker.
ReplyDeleteEvans holds his hands up as if to say sorry ref don't send me off, Evans can't believe his luck wen the ref runs straight past him to send Torres off, the EPL is a joke
ReplyDeleteSteve Nicol's Titles at Liverpool
ReplyDeleteFootball League First Division (5): 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90
FA Cup (3): 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92
Super Cup (1): 1986
FA Charity Shield (4): 1986, 1989, 1989, 1990
European Cup (1): 1983–84
think its time to start paying refs more money. They obvously needs to have more time to study the game and get better. Do as with players pay them for their qualities. They need to be given incentives so they can start developing. Comparing the english refs with the Italian, spanish and german, 8 out of 10 comes out smelling like shait!
ReplyDeleteP.S. West ham Bratz: grow up and get a life, boy!
The only difference between Evans and, say, Cattermole is the kit...
ReplyDeleteYeah that's the fella, the one who looks like he's modelling himself on Gok Wan, the bloated mouthy beaut !
ReplyDeleteTorres may have dived however if you watch Johnny Evans go in to the tackle he goes in with studs showing so in the letter of the law if a player goes in 2 footed and makes contact or not then that is a red card for dangerous play.
ReplyDeleteIt's a foul. Its a nutmeg and Evans need not to go down, Torres got better of him, its not the matter he could have stayed on his feet, Anything like that is a foul. Its a clear goal scoring opportunity and Evans lucky as Man Utd been this season.
ReplyDeleteAre we still arguing about this. Its to obvious that its a foul. Have anyone seen any defender react like that when there is a dive. Everyone that has any experience with the game knows that he would be windmilling his arms and showing an imaginary card if this was the case. The issue as i see it is not wether the ref got it wrong, but why they get it wrong so often.
ReplyDeleteIt has to work both ways though. Defenders (Evans a prime example) get away with stretching the rules to the realm of dishonesty. If referees had the guts to call fouls without the players going to ground this problem wouldn't exist in my opinion. Even if Torres could have stayed on his feet, there's no doubting that Evans fouled him. It was arguably a straight red as it was two footed with both feet of the ground. I just feel the rush to crucify diving and such activity shouldn't also distract from dangerous play or other rule breaking that is just as much of an issue.
ReplyDeleteThe bloke who said that evans should have been yellow carded and sent off, well seen as tho he hasnt commited a fould yet this season, I very much doubt it as he hadnt even recieved a yellow card!! must have had his liverpool glasses on.
ReplyDeleteAnd Owen addmitted to diving and only made a coment that it was a dive, dont understand why steve nicol would even talk about it, obviously just wanted to get in the papers as no one can remember who he is regardless of what he has won.
and rio does wave an imaginary card
ReplyDeleteYOU DONT KNOW?
ReplyDeleteFuuuuck. Offfffff.
HAHA Idiot,
ReplyDeleteHere you go football genius
Player
Liverpool
First division champion (x5): 1982–83, 1983–84, 1985–86, 1987–88, 1989–90
FA Cup (x3): 1985–86, 1988–89, 1991–92
Super Cup (x1): 1986
FA Charity Shield (x4): 1986, 1989, 1989, 1990
European Cup (x1): 1983–84
is that enough for you??
berk ,shut your trap unless you have something valid to say please.
Evans again?? does he have a special license for bad tackles??
ReplyDeleteWho is Steve Nicol you say!! Talk about making a complete show of yourself.
ReplyDeleteI advise you not to post comments without first engaging your brain.
It was probably in his role as analyst on ESPN's show Press Pass. Now do you understand?! The article even references it! Unfortunate that you made yourself look stupid there by trying to get a cheap dig in!
ReplyDeleteIf you have to ask who nicol is, you probably think the kop has always been seating and football started with the premier league. Pannyb you stick to playing fifa 12 something with a bit less history.
ReplyDeleteTwo Words - Monkey fuck! One word! Retard. Who's Steve Nicol - What a fucking joke you are. You're an ignorant little homo mind fuck. A child!
ReplyDeleteSo pretty turns you on more than a players footballing ability on the field. If i was you, id get that sorted - examined - unraveled. What a fucking homo! LETS DO THE FREUD, LETS DO THE SHANKS! COME ON THE BOYS lol
ReplyDeleteWhat a retard!!! What a backward monkfish!
ReplyDeleteGay! So looks are so important to you. What a HOMO.
ReplyDeleteStevie Nicol was a Tour De Force!
ReplyDelete