Steven Gerrard's ego has been well and truly massaged this week, with everyone and their dog heaping massive praise on Liverpool's captain for reaching the 100-cap milestone for the England national team. Much of the praise seems to ignore the fact that Gerrard - part of the ludicrously overhyped 'Golden Generation - has underwhelmed for England during much of his international career. His influence for Liverpool, however, cannot be denied. Or can it? Former Manchester United captain Roy Keane has been a lone dissenting voice amongst all the praise this week, and he is not convinced about Gerrard's 'greatness'.
Discussing Gerrard's England achievement on ITV last night, Keane - who led Man Utd to twelve major trophies - observed:
"Gerrard is a good player, but not a great player.
"He's had a tough couple of years for Liverpool. He has shown he is capable of winning games on his own, but I don't think he's made the players around him much better.
"Gerrard is maybe a little bit behind the likes of Scholes and Vieira when it comes to Premier League greatness, but he's a top player".
Individually, Gerrard has had an amazing impact on Liverpool over the years, but being completely objective, Keane is probably right that Scholes and Vieira are ahead of him in terms of Premier League greatness.
How do you measure such greatness? Well, Scholes and Vieira have 13 league titles between them, and that has to count for something.
Liverpool fans always argue that Bob Paisley is a superior manager to Alex Ferguson by virtue of the fact he won more European Cups (3 in 4 years), so the same principle must surely apply in some way when comparing Gerrard to Scholes and Vieira?
Keane is wrong about Gerrard not being a 'great player' though; for Liverpool, he undoubtedly is; For England, he's merely been average, but there's no denying his influence at Anfield.
Having said that, I have to agree with Keane's contention that Gerrard hasn't improved the players around him. In some ways, Gerrard is a selfish player; he seems to thrive on the 'Liverpool saviour' tag, and over the years, he has often thrived whilst the team has suffered.
A prime example of this is 2002-2004: those two season were atrocious for the team, but Gerrard excelled; indeed, the 'Liverpool is one man team' legend was arguably forged during those two seasons, yet Gerrard's brilliance did not rub off on his colleagues.
I'm sure other LFC fans will disagree, but I can't think of many players who have massively improved as a direct result of playing with Gerrard...
Whether improving players is a valid criterion for considering a player 'great' is, however, open to debate.
REMINDER: ANY post containing insults/derogatory comments against Keane will be deleted. If you disagree with him, make your point in a civil manner, or don't bother at all.
Jaimie Kanwar
Discussing Gerrard's England achievement on ITV last night, Keane - who led Man Utd to twelve major trophies - observed:
"Gerrard is a good player, but not a great player.
"He's had a tough couple of years for Liverpool. He has shown he is capable of winning games on his own, but I don't think he's made the players around him much better.
"Gerrard is maybe a little bit behind the likes of Scholes and Vieira when it comes to Premier League greatness, but he's a top player".
Individually, Gerrard has had an amazing impact on Liverpool over the years, but being completely objective, Keane is probably right that Scholes and Vieira are ahead of him in terms of Premier League greatness.
How do you measure such greatness? Well, Scholes and Vieira have 13 league titles between them, and that has to count for something.
Liverpool fans always argue that Bob Paisley is a superior manager to Alex Ferguson by virtue of the fact he won more European Cups (3 in 4 years), so the same principle must surely apply in some way when comparing Gerrard to Scholes and Vieira?
Keane is wrong about Gerrard not being a 'great player' though; for Liverpool, he undoubtedly is; For England, he's merely been average, but there's no denying his influence at Anfield.
Having said that, I have to agree with Keane's contention that Gerrard hasn't improved the players around him. In some ways, Gerrard is a selfish player; he seems to thrive on the 'Liverpool saviour' tag, and over the years, he has often thrived whilst the team has suffered.
A prime example of this is 2002-2004: those two season were atrocious for the team, but Gerrard excelled; indeed, the 'Liverpool is one man team' legend was arguably forged during those two seasons, yet Gerrard's brilliance did not rub off on his colleagues.
I'm sure other LFC fans will disagree, but I can't think of many players who have massively improved as a direct result of playing with Gerrard...
Whether improving players is a valid criterion for considering a player 'great' is, however, open to debate.
REMINDER: ANY post containing insults/derogatory comments against Keane will be deleted. If you disagree with him, make your point in a civil manner, or don't bother at all.
Jaimie Kanwar
How about Fernando Torres?!
ReplyDeletewho cares what roy keane thinks not me personally he can go fu*k himself
ReplyDeletehow about Torres ?
ReplyDeleteNot Improved??Torres??
ReplyDeleteI don't agree with the comment about him not improving players around him. Torres for example has himself stated Gerrard made him the player he is (or rather was) him and many more around him. Alonso said he made it easier for him to his job. this surely counts as improving his game. a player doesn't have to give another player skills to take elsewhere with him but what he does do is conduct players and make them play better with him.
ReplyDeleteIf a normal person said it I could value the opinion, but Roy Keane ??
ReplyDeleteSo Gerrard didn't have a team to win PL, but to claim he doesn't make others better after what he did in Istanbul final !?
Not just his goal, but his performance lifted entire team to go on and make historic win.
Keane is a c**t how many champions league finals did he win on his own, oh that's right none! He didn't play because he couldn't control himself in the final, he's the most overrated premiership player in history
ReplyDeleteTorres, and Alonso, who recently said he learned a lot playing with Gerrard. You can´t blame him for players like Traore. :) The players in and around him will tell you they´ve improved. I´m sure Suarez will appreciate playing with him. The difference was Scholes and Viera, and Keane, had much better players around them from the beginning. Keane was brilliant at influencing players around him, but he was a different type of captain to Gerrard. Gerrard has more attributes to his game. Keane helped the others excel and was the driving force behind United, but he didn´t rescue many games in the way Gerrard did. Scholes led by example, but didn´t really influence the players around him all that much. He was a great team player, but mainly kept it simple and made great runs into the box. Has he improved Carrick, Anderson? I don´t know. Both Viera and Scholes played in much stronger teams, so that has to be taken into consideration.
ReplyDeleteJudging a player by the amount of trophies he has won cannot be the same as judging a manager. It's the managers job to build a team to win trophies and he controls what players come in and out. Gerrard has no control of this and can only play with what is around him. Scholes and Viera were surrounded by better players during their most successful periods. Had you replaced either of them for Gerrard, would they have won us the league with the teams we had? Highly doubtful.
ReplyDeleteMaybe "Keano" is only saying that because deep down he knows Gerrard was better than himself.
ReplyDeletekeanes a tw@
ReplyDeleteroy keane talks shit
ReplyDeletei hate this guy... whom has Scholes improved?? improving players and influencing players are two different things you idiot!!!..managers improve players, players influence players.. Alonso , Torres , Suarez etc have already told that they were greatly influenced by Gerrard..(Please go and check their past interviews).. I don't know why you keep writing articles which no one likes.. I can't belive that you get paid for this garbage. I request LiverpoolKop to please throw this person out.
ReplyDeleteRoy keane reminds me of a brown Austin Allegro. I need not elaborate on that.
ReplyDeleteIf you wanted to discuss Steven you could have stated your own opinion only, fcuk that prick and what he think he thinks!
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you respect his right to an opinion?
ReplyDeleteGerrards a far better player than Keane, Viera or Ginger Bollocks ever were, better goalscorer/tackler/passer/captain, the best British player of the last 20 years
ReplyDeleteRoy keane needs to have a word with himself. Great players dont always necessarily play in great teams and win loads of trophies. Its the players innate skill and the effect they have on games over a period of time that makes them "great". Was Gary Neville a "great" because he won loads of silverware?
ReplyDeleteAnd btw, some of the stuff Roy Keane did to his fellow players wont exactly endear me to listen to his inane ramblings.
And for the record, i'm not a Liverpool fan, but appreciate the special players we have ha and will continue to have in the EPL.
Credit Rafael Benitez for him
ReplyDeleteThe opinion of Keane is absolute rubbish !!
ReplyDeleteIt's clear as day that an attacking midfielder (Gerrard) could never be as influential to the team's overall play as a central midfielder/playmaker (Vieira/Scholes).
An attacking midfielder's job is totally different to that of a central midfielder's/playmaker's ...
The influence a attacking midfielder can have on a game is to assist or score goals and that's what Gerrard has done, and he has done it superbly.
If anybody wants to compare Gerrard to other players, then compare him to other attacking midfielders !!
You wouldn't compare a full back with a centre back, would you ...
Very mature response. Clearly, you are unable to construct a counter-argument against Keane's opinion.
ReplyDeleteHow did he improve Torres?
ReplyDeleteHe does not deserve it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure Torres said that. Can you find the quotes?
ReplyDeleteSo, Roy Keane is not a 'normal' person because he has the temerity to have a different view of Gerrard than you? I see.
ReplyDeleteTorres you muppet
ReplyDeleteROY WHO!?!?!?!
ReplyDeleteAre you listening to yourself? You're not biased at all, are you? Keane captained United to 7 league titles. Yes, very overrated. Plus, you completely overlook his impact during United's European Cup run in 1999: It was largely because of his inspirational display against Juventus in the second leg of the Champions League semi-final in 1999 that United got to the final. (He helped the team come back two goals down to win 3–2)
ReplyDeleteIt's pathetic how the default response of fans is to just thoughtlessly denigrate non-LFC players. I despise Man United as much as the next fan but twisting the truth about history is not the way to go.
Keane is not good enough to lace SG's boots!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat about Jay Spearing and Jamie Carragher all you Stevie haters
ReplyDeleteIn what way is Gerrard better than Keane? Which player had the bigger impact on their respective teams?
ReplyDeleteNo, I'll just throw you out instead. Go away; grow up; learn to accept the opinions of others, and then maybe I'll unban you.
ReplyDeleteare you not the one talking sh#t about a player who has cap'd for his national team 100xs how many caps do u have anyway jamie
ReplyDeleteThat's unfair to say that viera and Co are better than Gerrard simply because they won more trophies than him. When you look at Gerrads career, he has completely outshone his teammates. Viera didn't, the arsenal 'invincibles' team had world class players in every position. Gerrard didn't. Swap Gerrard and Viera and there would be no doubt who would be the superior player.
ReplyDeleteTop 5 LFC players I've seen play in my lifetime:
ReplyDelete1. John Barnes
2. Kenny Dalglish
3. Peter Beardsley
4. Steven Gerrard
5. Steve McManaman
I prefer positional specialists over 'jacks of all trades'. Gerrard doesn't really excel to world class level in any one position, and just because a player is excellent in several positions doesn't make him better than a positional specialist (IMO)
How am I 'talking sh1t'? What is wrong with people like you? Do you not understand the concept that other people are allowed to have a different opinion than you? Grow the hell up already! How do you function in the world if you get angry every time people have a different view to you?
ReplyDeleteHe can tink what He wants to tink.
ReplyDeleteIt is not towards non lfc player, it is manu player-the one supporters hate more than others. And it is normal to hate biggest rivals' players- ask any supporter in the world, players must respect each other on the pitch, we do not.
ReplyDeleteIf you wanted to discuss Stevie you should have stated your opinion only- you have the right to say he is not good enough as a supporter. And him? Ok, I won't use the f word...
Nonsense. This is not North Korea; Keane is entitled to his view like anyone else.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand how Viera and Scholes have improved players around them either. Keane's explanation doesn't make sense
ReplyDeleteSince when does the number of league titles you have define how great a player you are?
ReplyDeletePhil Neville has six league titles does that mean he is a far better player than Gerrard? Er, no.
It's no different to people judging Irish players based on the fact that they have never won the world cup.
As if Gerrard doesn't improve the players around him. How often have we heard players say how he leads by example and how great it is to learn from him on the pitch or in training.
I put it to you that this is just a deliberately controversial opinion that you are taking in order to provoke people into spending time on your site in order to inflate your pageviews.
great players dont walk out on there club or contry turnin there back
ReplyDeleteRoy Keane was a thug in his playing days just like his former manager.
ReplyDeleteHe was a crap manager.
He's an even worse pundit.
He's a clown.
Yes, but not here- this site is called LIVERPOOL KOP, for Christ sake!
ReplyDeletetats d reason y england could not win shit ! gerard !
ReplyDeleteBy normal, he obviously mean objective and not a die hard Manc I think...
ReplyDeleteOrme, don't tell me what I should and should not post. If you can't handle Keane's views, that's your problem. It's perfectly fine to quote Keane in relation to Gerrard; they played in similar positions, in a similar era, and fair-minded people not in the grip of unreasonable and obsessive Man United hatred will engage in debate in the right way.
ReplyDeleteOthers, who follow the ridiculous 'angry-fan' stereotype will react in a different way.
Does the view of a person who deliberately ended the career of a fellow professional really warrant press coverage. Roy Keane unfortunately was thug, and could not have altered or adapted his game to play in the modern era. Gerrard has been fantastic for club and country and certainly ranks as one of the best midfielders ever to have played in England. Paul Scholes has been exceptionally lucky playing with title winning teams, and referees who have overlooked his inability to tackle !!.
ReplyDeleteAre you for real? So only things said by Liverpool players should be reported? Please look up the phrase 'narrow-minded' in the dictionary.
ReplyDeleteits roy 'fcuking' keane asshole n get it in ur head !
ReplyDeleteAh, yes. Typical LFC fan reasoning. Paul Scholes is a 'lucky' player who only won 10 league titles because refs overlooked his inability to tackle.
ReplyDeleteYes, that's a very fair appraisal. bravo!
i think keane is better then gerard hands down ! face it loser scouser !
ReplyDeletethis person must be stupid. u are talking about a player who have won almost everything. wat did gerard win he got his 100 cap for englang and have never won a competitive trophy neither with liverpool other than the champion league and FA CUP HE HIS A GOOD PLAYER BUT NOT A GREAT ONE AND THATS A FACK
ReplyDeleteKeane is a living legend ... among the greatest living men in history! :p
ReplyDeletei think u eat more shit then ! wat a twat !
ReplyDeleteGerrard had a lot of average players around him so i don't think there's much argument that he didn't make other players better. When he has had better players to play with both have thrived, Torres, Owen, Alonso but the quality Liverpool have had in his career has been few and far between. Scholes and Viera had other great players around them, great defenders, other great midfielders and world class strikers. For me it would only be fair to compare how Viera or Scholes would have done in the same teams that Gerrard had to play in. Would they have dragged their team to as much glory as Stevie?
ReplyDeleteA large part of a midfielders game is to defend and tackle.
ReplyDeleteScholes has been a great player but no better than Gerrard, and its far easier playing with a winning team. Both players are far more skilfull, have greater ability and able to adapt their games far more than Roy Keane ever could !!!!.
Comin from a man who got nowhere near 100 caps for his country plus failed as a manager
ReplyDeleteKeaneo dragged a very mediocre bunch of players to the World Cup in 2002 with Ireland ...at that point at the peak of his powers he was nearly 'unplayable' from 1998 to 2001 .... but to compare Steven Gerrard ...who is essentially a attacking central midfield player to a defensive midfielder is stupid ... like someone said up top ... you wouldnt compare a full back to a centre back ... and remember this ... Keaneo single handed took a team to the world cup ... with Jason McAteer as a team mate! pity he lost the rag and got sent home!
ReplyDeleteThe idea that Gerrard had average players around him is a cliched myth. He has always played alongside top class players. A few examples:
ReplyDeleteMichael Owen
Robbie Fowler
Steve McManaman
Jari Litmanen
Gary McAllister
Dietmar Hamann
Markus Babbel
Luis Garcia
Fernando Morientes
Craig Bellamy
Sami Hyypia
Fernando Torres
Xabi Alonso
Javier Mascherano
Luis Suarez
John Arne RIise
Pepe Reina
Nicolas Anelka
etc
In what universe are these average players? They're not.
Oh Jaimie, you talk as if Gerrard meant nothing to the England team? I was at the world cup in SA and Gerrard was the only player that showed up to play. You weren't there.
ReplyDeleteWHo is comparing Keane to Gerrard? I certainly wasn't, and that's not what the article is about.
ReplyDeleteCompelling argument. Just forget the 12 major trophies he captained Man United to. Those don't matter.
ReplyDeleteOnly those from manu do not deserve mentioning... Specially this one...
ReplyDeleteGerrard gives the ball away far to much to be a world class player take away is energy and he is average
ReplyDeleteyou certainly were not agreed ...but some up top compared what keane had won for united and said it was irrelevant as he had a better calibre of player around him ...this comparison is ludicrous.... Keane played with a less calibre of player with ireland is my point
ReplyDeleteJaimie, how do you know if a player improves the ones he plays with? I seriously don't have a clue how one can judge that.
ReplyDeleteFor example do you know who did Maradona, Zidane, etc improve ?
So what if I wasn't there. 99% of England fans weren't there; does that make them less worthy fans? (By the way, I am not an England fan - just making a point).
ReplyDeleteYou don't have to be there to see Gerrard's influence on England. What did the England team do at Word Cup 2010, exactly? What was Gerrard's major impact on the team?
Gerrard has never excelled for England; he is part of the failed golden generation, and England will only start to improve once the likes of Gerrard, Rooney, Cole and all the other players tainted by 12 years of failure, are scrapped.
Keane is entitled to his opinion but I think it is ludicrous for him to say Gerrard has not improved others around him. Istanbul is a perfect example. His arm waving celebration still sends chills down my spine when I see it, even the fans were influenced by it. Even the younger players say that they learn alot from him.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Roy "walk out on your country" Keane or any of us are really in a position to know how much he improves players behind the scenes.
I agree with you; that's why I said it was 'debatable' in the article.
ReplyDeleteOkay jamie adding on your last comment about the torres qoute, if you did a bit of research you would know he did say gerrard helped make him a better player as did alonso so are you going to stand corrected and face it like a man or are you just going to change the subject? You need to learn to face up when you're wrong p.s you're not a proper lfc fan all you've done is badmouth gerrard and praise roy keane :/ real lfc fan lol
ReplyDeleteTraore, Finnan, Nunez, Gonzalez, N'Gog, Spearing, Biscan, Babel, Diao, Diouf and more have all been average. Out of the players you list only a handful were truely class for us and usually didn't play at the same time as each other. My point (which you;ve ignored and decided to focus on the more irelevant pat of my post) is that Scholes and Viera had a LOT more quality in their teams than what Stevie has had. I ask again, how would Viera or Scholes have coped playing in the teams Stevie has played in? I don't think they would've been half as influential or as good as Stevie has had to be for us.
ReplyDeleteIn the comment to which you refer, I merely asked the poster to post the comments. You seem so sure, so why don't you find Torres' quotes and post them?!
ReplyDeleteRe how would Vieira/Scholes have coped playing in the teams Gerrard has. Who knows? How do you know they wouldn't have been as influential? There is absolutely no evidence to back up that contention.
Im with you regarding john Barnes, during those early seasons hes the best Iv seen in a Liverpool shirt. However hes a player who never matched his club form on the international stage and his best for Liverpool was unfortunately over a relatively short period. He played in various positions too so not truly a positional specialist.With regards to Gerrard, i think he would have excelled in teams that included those players you mentioned. He is rated our best ever by many including Carra and aldo. So bearing in mind we have been the best team in Europe and he is rated above players of that era surely that is enough contradict what kean has said?
ReplyDeleteyeah what did keane manage to do with ireland then if he was so good he would have at least helped them qualify for a major tournament on more than one occasion and gerrard only one the fa cup and champions league you obviously don't no what you are talking about he lifted
ReplyDeleteFA Cup (twice)
League Cup (twice)
FA Community Shield (twice)
UEFA Champions League (once)
UEFA Cup (once)
UEFA Super Cup (twice)
so get your facts right
Just said what i think you should have done- would have been less controversial- unless that was your intention...
ReplyDeleteGood Article Jamie - but for all the people slating Keane on this thread - Arrigo Sacchi said this about Gerrard years ago... good but not great - personally I dont see how he would get ahead of Souey in terms of best Liverpool players
ReplyDeleteBarnes player superbly well for the whole of his 10 years at LFC. When he moved in the central midfield, the club could've won the league two years running (1995-1997), if not for the rubbish defence.
ReplyDeleteI haven't agreed with Keane in the article; I think Gerrard is a great player.
Gerrard has not replicated his LFC form on the international stage either, and even he admits that.
I disagree that Gerrard would've excelled in the 1980s Barnes/Beardsley team. I would take Steve McMahon over Gerrard any day in that team, mainly because he was far more tactically disciplined, and he didn't have a hero complex.
How can an average player for England earn 100 caps !. Gerrard still represents his country with passion, and endeavour when others have retired from international football, but still manage to take their pay cheque playing for their clubs every week ie. Scholes for England, Giggs for Wales !.
ReplyDeleteWhy aren't England fan if I may ask?
ReplyDeleteI don't post stuff to be controversial. that doesn't enter my head. I post stuff I find interesting and/or my opinions about stuff. If it's controversial, that is projected by others, not me.
ReplyDeleteSacchi's whole quote:
ReplyDelete“When I was director of football at Real Madrid I had to evaluate the players coming through the youth ranks. We had some who were very good footballers. They had technique, they had athleticism, they had drive, they were hungry.
"But they lacked what I call knowing-how-to-play-football. They lacked decision making. They lacked positioning. They didn't have the subtle sensitivity of football: how a player should move within the collective. And for many, I wasn't sure they were going to learn".
“You see, strength, passion, technique, athleticism, all of these are very important. But they are a means to an end, not an end in itself. They help you reach your goal, which is putting your talent at the service of the team and, by doing this, making both of you and the team greater.
"In situations like that, I just have to say, Gerrard's a great footballer, but perhaps not a great player."
"I enjoyed playing next to him for three and a half seasons. It was probably the best time I have had on a football pitch. I am who I am now thanks to him because he showed me the way.'' It's on the liverpool website if you don't believe me :)
ReplyDeleteSTEVE MCMANAMAN YOUR HAVING A LAUGH the others fair shouts
ReplyDeletebut how many were there at the same time thats over his carear
ReplyDeleteI believe you, I just don't think that Torres is saying there that Gerrard improved him as a player.
ReplyDeleteZidane himself stated that Gerrard is the best player in the world, by that he meant in his position, and as a player. He did not mention Scholes for some reason though. You see when Gerrard played along side good player like Torres, Alonso etc. he was amazing much better than most players in Europe after the team collapsed all the good players were sold Gerrard started to play worse. My point is that the overall quality of the team matters the most. Messi is the best player in the world for 3 consecutive years not because he isn't, but mainly because of the other great, amazing partners he has in his team. Overall as a player to player comparison I believe that Gerrard is much better than Scholes, Scholes has so many great players in his team one of the best in the world, and pretty much the best manager of all times, so no crap he won 13 league titles or whatever ManUtd won during his playing years. (if Scholes is rated 7, Gerrard is surely 9) Oh and BTW Zidane is pretty much Keane+Scholes+Messi etc. the guy almost single handedly won the WC for France, and many titles for his clubs, he was one of the greatest players in the history of football and no other player will ever come close to imitate any of his greatness's.
ReplyDeleteGerrard is a different player to both of them. Gerrard is a goal scorer by default but can play the scholes/Viera role also. Lets picture it like this...if Gerrard was in Manchester utd's team alongside Scholes he would have won more than 13 titles because Gerrard would be able to score 15+ goals a season plus fling the ball around like Scholes but just not as well. I honestly believe that Gerrard would overshadow Scholes if they were on the same side. Gerrard's long passes have improved immensely and if he was in Man utds team he would still be scoring goals for fun. His loyalty to LFC alone makes him a much better individual to have than the likes of Viera.
ReplyDeleteI'm not English. I was born in Scotland, so I support Scotland on the international stage (and Germany as I lived there for 15 years)
ReplyDeleteAgain Jamie doesn't reply to valid comments, is this guy even a Liverpool fan? Everytime I come here there's always negativity! Even when we're meant to be celebrating Gerrards 100th cap! Also he's named a bunch of players who didn't play in the same team together! Look at Scholes, there were at least 7 world class players at any 1 time!
ReplyDeleteFor every player you've named here there is about 5 who were poor signings, did you not see the rubbish houllier/ Benitez bought? Something that didn't often happen at united and Arsenal
ReplyDeleteBut you are an intelligent person, you must know it will be 'projected', why do it? not on this site too long but never seen so many angry comments- could've prevented it... OK, your decision...
ReplyDeleteits all about opinions isnt it and i know you havent agreed with keane! But one thing that is not in doubt is that Gerrard has made his place in history and one of our best players ever and we have had some great players who have won everything. With regards to barnes. I dont think he ever recovered properly after his injury. His goal scoring and ability to create from the wing declined. To His credit he reinvented himself into a decent central midfielder but he never reached the levels he did during the late eighties.
ReplyDeletethat's why fergie wishes and tried to buy gerrard to replace keane! Y.N.W.A
ReplyDeleteYet more revisionism. Wenger and Ferguson have bought lots of rubbish too. Examples:
ReplyDeletePoborsky
Cruyff
Nevland
Blomqvist
Veron
Forlan
Taibi
Djemba Djemba
Forlan
Ricardo
Kleberson
Bellion
Miller
Hargreaves
Bebe
Djordicic
Greening
Martin etc
I could make a similar list for Arsenal.
see there all attackers mostly second strikers or attacking midfielders no souness ,hanson .lawro stevie nicol ronnie whealen ect the list is endless only thing they have in common theyall played in great lfc teams except gerrard barnes was outstanding in an outstanding team probably imo the best attacking side english football has ever seen plus the defence was not that shabby whilst gerrard has for the main played in poor teams my top 5 kinng kenny barnes gerrard ,rush and beardsley sorry to all the greats left out
ReplyDeleteIf people want to post angry comments, so be it. I'm not going to refrain from posting something just because it might annoy visitors.
ReplyDeleteIn what way? Technically , better passer, better interplay/1 touch , better shot, more goals, better versatility , better cross , more influencing on the ball and even a better tackler..... Kane was a thug who broke a players leg on purpose! Fact!
ReplyDeleteYes he won stuff but couldn't be able to keep up with today's football, Gerrards had to adapt.
Oh and he's more influential did u not see the champions league final, who started the comeback? Who g'd up his players?
Did you watch Liverpool vs Madrid? Gerrard destroyed them
Every time u write something u have something negative to say and I understand you're playing devils advocate but not when Gerrards getting his hundredth cap, it's out of order especially for a player who has stayed loyal and single handed dragged us to finals! Even in 07 champs league! Are you even a Liverpool fan?
I think I'll just listen to people like Zidane who call Gerrard the best in the World instead of muppets like you!
Um, how can you say Gerrard has been average for England?..You only have to look at the last two major tournaments to see that Gerrard was by far the stand out player for England and the others were very average!
ReplyDeleteSend them homewards, hehe...
ReplyDeleteYou're telling me that we have to take the opinion of the ex Man Utd captain seriously?? Gerrard used to outplay Keane on most occasions, even when Keane was in his prime. It's a bitter opinion. Who cares if he improved players or not. He never had the luxury of playing with 10 other world class players every week. Gerrard inspired mediocre players to play beyond their capacity. Traore has a Euro cup winners medal thanks to him! Would Keane have inspired a mediocre team that much?..I doubt it. I seem to remember Keane turning his back on his own countrymen in their hour of need.....what a man!! He's a self righteous fool who chats nonsense just like you Jaimie! But you're right about one thing.....he is entitled to his opinion, but I don't have to respect it
ReplyDeleteCantona
ReplyDeleteGiggs
Beckham
Cole
Yorke
Vidic
Rooney
ROnaldo
Ferdinand
Blanc
Larsson
Tevez
Sherinham
Solskjear
Valencia
I could go on and on
My point being Fergusons poor signings are few and far between, liverpool seems to be often i.e Carroll, Henderson and Downing!
Funny coa Gerrard destroy Madrid in the 4-0 win
ReplyDeleteGerrard is a worldclass attacking midfielder !!!!
ReplyDeleteThose 'top class' players Hamann, Babbel, Owen, Hyypia and Riise were all at the club 2002-2004.
ReplyDeleteThe period of time when you say LFC was just a one-man Steven Gerrard team.
So which is correct?
Jamie, don't you get that no single player can lead his team to a title ...
ReplyDeleteFootball is a team sport !!
Players can only influence the game with their own performances, but if the other players play bad, you will most likely lose.
Steven Gerrard has often enough bailed Liverpool out of misery, so his influence can't be questioned.
who is roy keane, who knows this guy?he should think about how great he is and stop talking about others
ReplyDeletehttp://nesn.com/2012/11/fernando-torres-says-steven-gerrard-showed-him-way-to-greatness/
ReplyDeleteSorry, the quote was "I enjoyed playing next to him for three and a half seasons. It was probably the best time I have had on a football pitch. I am who I am now thanks to him because he showed me the way." - Nando
ReplyDeleteLink: http://nesn.com/2012/11/fernando-torres-says-steven-gerrard-showed-him-way-to-greatness/
how many of that players played together with him as a team
ReplyDeleteDon't tell me you think that Keane was the reason and it's all down to him why Manchester United won those trophies ...
ReplyDeletesure
ReplyDeleteWhat else were you referring to then ??
ReplyDeleteYou seem to thrive on slagging off Stevie at every opportunity , it is very hard to say how a player improves another , but like we all know Rush would not have scored as many goals without Kenny , by Torres's admission Stevie made a great number of his goals , Torres never as prolific before or since playing alongside Stevie . Our two greatest ever players , and it's annoying that an obvious dope like you uses every opportunity to slag one of them off . Players Zidane , Henry , Alonso and countless others sing the guys praises , yet you pick up on a snide remark from Roy Keane that most honourable of men , I think you are a nonce , a shit house in fact .
ReplyDeletelooks like vieira left his mark on keane, if only gerrard had strangled him then he would have earned his praise.
ReplyDeletei usually read the articles with a neutral mind as i do believe some people are over the top however there is no way i am going to sit back and let people say that gerrard was not as good as scholes or vieria....i was at istanbul and watched benitez switch gerrard into an emergency right-back and then watch gerrard instantly neutralise sylvinho, then one of the best left attack wingers in the world....scholes vieira and keane could never do that!
ReplyDeleteand since all we have heard is from keane, how about:
zinedine zidane:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/4984191/Liverpools-Steven-Gerrard-hailed-as-worlds-best-player-by-Zinedine-Zidane.html
edgar davids:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/edgar-davids-believes-england-must-840531
pele:
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,12016_2379622,00+en-USS_01DBC.html
not exactly 'average players' in their day!
Graeme Souness said Gerrard is worthy of a place in any of the great Liverpool team's he has played in. That'll do for me.
ReplyDeleteBoth were much better footballers than Roy Keane, who was a great captain and leader but not in the same league as Gerrard as a player.
Most very good players but I think you'll find they didn't all play together at the same time.
ReplyDeletesimple really, both players played most of there career in a better team.
ReplyDelete3 players as good as each other in different ways. like a school ground argument.
keane is just a bitter twisted messed up mad irish man, most other pundits are worth listening to, even southgate when hes not licking keanes balls.
gerrard could of played for united,chelsea,madrid etc etc all wanted him. don't recall Madrid wanted either viera or scholes for example.
work that one out.
agree with keane or not. I don't.
people forget how great gerrard was, and still shows it now and again, hes getting on and a bit fragile.
proper roy of the rover................end of!!
He said it on liverpool tv for the gerrard 600 programme lookit up
ReplyDeletetorres scored only 10 less goals in 100 more appearances playing for athletico madrid an average of 0.37 a game, .then he averaged 0.57 a game for liverpool with gerrard feeding him, here is an article extract i found
ReplyDelete"He told Liverpool's official website: "I think it's an amazing achievement for him and it is very well deserved. He is a winner and a captain
"I enjoyed playing next to him for three and a half seasons. It was probably the best time I have had on a football pitch. I am who I am now thanks to him because he showed me the way"
He has an average of 0.22 with chelski with mata, ramires, lampshade, and hazard just to name a few.
to put it another way he has averaged 3.3 a game without gerrard in his team and 5.7 a game with him. i think for a man who likes stats so much that should be enough evidence.
that should read .33 or .57 sorry.
ReplyDeleteJK - your trying to hard to be controversial with your endless exaggerated headlines, - but you end up being more annoying most things on the internet
ReplyDeleteHe critises united more than any other team
ReplyDeleteIs that (the latter) a serious question??? Gerrard has pretty much carried the Liverpool team for 10 years, champions league final, the f.a cup final (also known as the Gerrard final) and numerous other important fixtures and he did that with some truly terrible players around him.
ReplyDeleteThen you have Keane, who played in a team that ARE looked upon favorably by officials (regardless what anyone says) and who at times was a disgrace to football in the way he went about been "this inspirational" player people talk about, and he was surrounded by other players that would and did fill the gap he left if missing (can you think of any player who could fill Gerrards boots when Keane was about?)
I am not saying Gerrard is better then Keane or vice versa but they have hardly had a level playing field have they?
And as for the "Which player had the bigger impact on their respective teams" question, well even the most die hard Man Ure fan would think twice about saying Keane, that really did make me laugh.
http://nesn.com/2012/11/fernando-torres-says-steven-gerrard-showed-him-way-to-greatness/ - article number one!
ReplyDeleteSteven gerrard never had the team like scholes and vista did I doubt scholes influenced Ronald and viera Henry so this article has no valid points.
Thank you very much bigal
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you , my last comment not put on . Why ?
ReplyDeletejesus christ mate, grow the f*** up!
ReplyDelete..
ReplyDeleteYou said you think Gerrard is actually a great player and disagree with Keane on that. So that means you disagree with Sacchi too.
ReplyDelete"I don't post stuff to be controversial" <---- LOL
ReplyDeleteJust like you don't from time to time lace your headlines with click-bait/misleading wording?
I think it's a good practise and it gets you your desired crowd. But to deny you don't post anything to be controversial, in my opinion, is a downright lie.
Great Premier League player. That's what I said. Keane was akso referring to Premier Leagye greatness. Sacchi refers to overall greatness.
ReplyDeleteIll counter Roy
ReplyDeleteMan utd n the player from the 90s where purchased pushing man utd in one of largest debts. Buying players easy n forming champions year in year out but never pulling them selves out of debt just more into debt
Arsenal the same but not to the same calibre
Liverpool have a debt but nothing on the scale of man utd n nothing in richness to the likes if Chelsea n man city
What has this to do with Gerrard being a great player. This u can not field mediocre players around a great player all the time. U have to buy further great players to full fill the team n extras in support to creat champion winning teams.
Liverpool previous owners never went to debt as other teams not saying they don't have a debt they do but small in comparison With FIFA n euefa fair play money scheme coming things will be different vastly as eventually they will unforce a salary cap structure in time to help manage there debts n the future of the smaller teams through out each country
Jaimie what makes gerrard a great player is the fact he can play all over the park a complete footballer unlike scholes and viera who only play in one position
ReplyDeleteThis would be the same lying (did you ever get round to donating that money you said?) Kanwar who had to set up his own site as he'd been banned from practically every other fan site for being unable to take criticism of his rather silly ramblings no?
ReplyDeleteRoy Keane is not a normal person because he deliberately attempted to break another human being's leg and then wrote about it in his autobiography.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of you. You're banned (for the comment that didn't make it live).
ReplyDeleteAlex ferguson and gary Neville both said that stevie g was the only player that could replace Roy keane at utd.. it's just keane being controversial and bitter what a great player but when you look at his behaviour in Saipan for his country and the hangeland incident not exactly the actions of a classy guy.. gerrard showed loyalty a trait that is few and far btween in this modern era of greed and money.. a legend and one of the greatest players ever to play in the premiership and influential and a captain and a role model and a goalscorer massive range of passing a tackler a motivator and done it at the highest level and when the chips wer down in Istanbul when a lot if players would have thrown in the towel he led and affected a game from a full back position could keane have done that with that bunch of players I think not.. keane has played with great players year in year out stevie g hasn't and shame on keane for talking shite and shame on you as a liverpool fan for agreeing and posting such shite about one of the most iconic figures ever to wear our red shirt!!! stevie world class and we are lucky to have him..
ReplyDeleteMessi only plays in one position; so did Zidane; and Maradona; Rivaldo; etc. Being able to play in many positions does not make a player automatically great. That is a particularly British way to view football. In the UK, versatility, stamina, tackling, physical strength etc are all seen as the pre-eminent traits of a footballer; the rest of the world sees things differently, which is why England never do well in major tournaments.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, I agree that Gerrard is a great player in my article.
wise up folks!!
ReplyDeleteGary Neville was the best end of!!
Read the article! It's Gerrard vs. Scholes/Vieira - absolutely nothing to do with Keane vs. Gerrard.
ReplyDeleteHow can he say he didnt make players around him better?
ReplyDeleteLook at the champions league team that beat AC Milan, from 3 nil down.
GK Jerzy Dudek
RB Steve Finnan
CB Jamie Carragher
CB Sami Hyypiä
LB Djimi Traoré
DM Xabi Alonso
RM Luis García
CM Steven Gerrard
LM John Arne Riise
SS Harry Kewell
CF Milan Baroš
Bar, Alonso and maybe one or two others, the rest of that side were average to good players. Gerrard throughout that route to the final and in the final inspired the average players around him to pull it out and leave everything out on the pitch. He's not only done it during that particular route to the 2005 final, he's done it countless times in league and cup games.
So for Roy Keane to say that he has not improved players around him, is absolute rubbish. He is entitled to his opinion, but his opinion is unjustified.
Jaimie, it doesn't sound as if you have much knowledge about football and positions. To say Gerrard doesn't really excel to a world class level in any one position, is one of the most ridiculous statements I think I have ever read. I know its in your opinion, but you are completely wrong, which is why I dont think you have a very good/sound understanding of football.
ReplyDeleteAs a holding midfielder, or an attacking midfielder (behind the striker, a la Torres and Gerrard) there are very few players at the same level as Gerrard was in his peak. He was a box to box midfielder, scoring goals from the edge of the box, thirty yards out, in the box. He ran back 70 yards to make last ditch challenges, some of his passing, both short and long range is phenomenal.
Gerrard excels anywhere in the middle of the park. Whether its holding or attacking, more so attacking.
Nearly every post u write is negative about LFC but anything regarding the scum is positive for them, wouldn't suprise me if Jaime is actually Gary Neville is disguise.
ReplyDeleteEvery post you write about liverpool is pretty much negative but pro the scum, maybe jaime is Gary Neville is disguise.
ReplyDeleteAnd what a legend he is for it! Pity it couldn't have been a scouse bastard on the receiving end!
ReplyDeletepart Scottish and german..........hhmmm, say no more ;0)
ReplyDeleteAgree with all your points. It's also important to consider the goal scoring record these players have for their clubs - Gerrard was a much different type of midfielder in his prime than Scholes/Viera/Keane, in that he would get forward much more (indeed, he was playing just off Torres in the second striker role).
ReplyDeleteFurther to your comment about playing in much stronger teams, these players also played under consistently stronger managers for a much longer part of their career (Scholes/Keane - SAF; Viera - Wenger during his prime), whereas Gerrard has had to play under many different managers, playing many different roles and different styles of football. Only Viera, who had success at the international level and for various clubs as well as Arsenal, has demonstrated that he can adapt under different managers/teams and be successful - Scholes and Keane only ever had success at the club level surrounded by world class players.
I can hear already hear a typical hater of Stevie, surprisingly he writes for Liverpool fan page. IMHO Gerard earned his 100 caps for the country, deservedly and only 6th player in the country to do so. England always had very good players at least a 100, but other 94+ players couldn't make 100 caps. Keane jus trying to draw some attention. What's better than saying a word against English captain than, the question is,wy tho articleia here, unless this is what Jaimie generally does. :)
ReplyDeleteBtw writing something about a player where he is the king is attention seeking syndrome. Seek help, IMHO. Now that Keene has his right of opinion do I?
Kanwar, you are a seriously deranged person...\
ReplyDeleteWhen will you stop with Gerrard?
Are you jealous of him?
Gerrard almost always had average players around him...how could he have improved them?
Keane and Scholes played in more balanced teams...
Scholes? Don't get me started!
The most overrrated player in history...and by a mile!
Living off his good performances of the treble year...1999...13 years ago!
I would like to see Scholes do what Gerrard did for Liverpool with almost an entire career playing with below-par players like Traore, Biscan, Meyer, Dossena, Djouf..and that's just the top of the iceberg!
Hate to say it but agree with Keane.
ReplyDeleteSome say because Gerrard has played in inferior teams and stood out, shows his superiority but you could spin that round and say playing in inferior teams, make him look better than he is.
I have never rated Gerrard the central midfielder (whether that be in the earlier parts of his senior career or in the latter seasons), but I rate Gerrard the attacking midfielder behind the front man or on the right. Too tactically wayward, rash, and hollywood as a modern day central midfield (Even as recently as the Sweden game illustrates his ineptitude at the deep central midfield role, with his silly need to do open-play hoof balls down the middle and inadequate protection). So yep, I'd take Scholes or Vieira over Gerrard, when it comes to central midfield. Hell, I'd take Xabi over Gerrard, in central midfield.
One of our best players ever. One of the best PL players, in the attacking midfield role but certainly not in a central midfield role, imo. Thanks Stevie, you will be missed.
Jaimie if u think Scholes is a better player than Gerrard then just stop writing you know nothing about football. Scholes is a slow thug. Other than a good passer and a decent shot he has nothing.
ReplyDeleteand Gerrard played with a so-called much better group of players at international level.
ReplyDeleteA swallow here and there does not make a summer.
ReplyDeleteHe did mention Scholes....on a separate occasion, Zizou praised Scholes to very high levels.
ReplyDelete'My toughest opponent? Scholes of Manchester. He is the complete midfielder.' Said Zidane.
As for the rest of your posts, it can be spun either way, so each to their own really.
Ifs, ifs, ifs, ifs ifs
ReplyDeletebuts, buts, buts, buts
The standard of performances by the England was hardly high. For the England standard (i.e. the usual crap served up by the England side, inc. Gerrard, over the last decade), he was good but by normal standards, he was average at best. It flatters his performance, playing around rubbish performances/players.
ReplyDeleteNot a fan of Keane but to doubt his inspiration & influence on a side is just laughable. One of the best captains ever.
ReplyDeleteIf Stevie was/is so inspirational and such a one-man force, where the **** has he been on the international stage? nowhere but averageville
'mad IRISH man'
ReplyDeletewhy can't you just say 'mad man', instead of bringing nationality into it? what purpose does it serve?
Considering Chelsea were close to signing Gerrard until he changed his mind (some theories flying round over that such as gangsters involved with his missus, death threats, etc), those teams must have thought he was gettable, whilst someone like Scholesy never ever seemed like he wanted to leave.
Eh? Purchases in the 90s put them in to big debt? someone hasn't done their homework.
ReplyDeleteI think you mean Haaland.
ReplyDeleteWhat was Gerrard like the in the first half? Hamann made Gerrard better in that game. He was poor in the first half of the final, showing his CL/international stage central midfield ineptitude once again. But, second half, got moved into a different position. Hamann-Alonso plugged the holes and set the platform for Stevie to do his business.
ReplyDeleteAnd who has viera or scholes massively improved?
ReplyDeleteJamie, I don’t want to judge, but your opinion is definitely not one I share regarding Gerrard and also I would feel confident enough to say the collective of football fans who have any decent knowledge of the game, from all fan base (not just LFC) would too.
ReplyDeleteOne comment that stands out is the one you made about 'Gerrard does not excel in any one position' is truly not worth the pixels used to display it.
He's been one of the best Midfielders in the EPL in the (2000's)
His ability to cover all aspects of the midfield position is what sets him apart. Tackling, Scoring (inside/outside box, head), Box to Box energy, full range of passing/crossing. Keane was only good at Tackling and pumping up his players - he never scored as many goals as Gerrard and his passing was basic. Scholes can score goals and pass the ball well, but he does not influence others, nor does he have box-to-box energy, nor can he tackle. Also you seem to forget for a long time Scholes couldn’t even get in the man u team – always subs appearance.
regards
M
Ridiculous comment. Scholes is viewed by many of the footballing greats as one of (if not) the best players of his generation. Pele, Zidane, Davids, Xavi, iniesta, charlton and many more would attest to that.
ReplyDeleteIn the 2011 champions league final, the barca players pulled straws to see who would be the lucky one to get Scholes' shirt. That says quite a bit methinks....
Scholes is 37 and up until 3 seasons ago was one of the first names on the team sheet....
ReplyDeleteGerrard is 32 and has to play because most of the Liverpool squad are mediocre.
Gerrard has been a great player but Scholes is probably the best midfielder the prem had ever seen. You don't get scholes? Then you don't get football.
Torres himself said he is the player he is because of gerrard in recent interview.
ReplyDeletePeople say gerrard didnt have a good team but he had owen fowler smicer redknall hypia carragher murphy berger hamann babbel yea some crap team and then there was torres alonso mascherano reina arbeloa carragher skrtel aurelio kuyt lucas babel keane benayoun yea these are crap teams he played in but they stil couldnt do it and he is nowhere near world class he is no where near the likes of ronaldo and messi and raul and zidane ronaldo figo iniesta xavi falcao pirlo scholes kaka ronaldinhio henry bergkamp sheaer shevchenko seedorf carlos cafu, the list goes on so gerrard is a great player but no where near world class standard even gascoigne is a far better player than gerrard and look at his problems, he coulda been world class if he had went to chelsea or madrid but caise he stayed at liverpool which you got to respect he stopped himself from being world class
ReplyDeleteThink you will find take garcia out of the team that year and liverpool dont get anywhere near the final
ReplyDeleteIn the pre-match build up to the chelsea game, Torres actually said that his time at Liverpool was the best of his career. He also put it down to gerrard, and said he really helped him improve as a player. So there you go. Also one of the main reasons why Torres became so deadly for us was because of Gerrard. When the two of them were playing up front the season we finished 2nd, they were lethal. We beat Put 4 past both Madrid and Utd within the space of few days. Torres has never reached the same level at Chelsea, and one of the key elements has been that he doesn't have those killer passes from Stevie G. It seems like they vast majority of fans would agree about Gerrard having improved Torres' game too. As to others he has improved I would have to think. As regards Scholes being better, I think Keane may be biased and it should be noted that Gerrard was never surrounded by as many quality players as Scholes. Keane stating that gerrard is 'not a great player' is nonsense. He will be remembered as one of the very best players of his generation in the premier league. Zidane himself even went to claim gerrard was the best player in the world a few years ago, and to be fair he's well placed to say.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, he raises a good point, argument or not!
ReplyDeleteEvertonian here, this articles point about Paisley/Ferguson and Gerrard/Vieira/Scholes is mute. One man can only do so much if he's not surrounded by very good players. The manager controls every aspect of a team and hold much more leverage than one player out of eleven can. It's a ludicrous assertion.
ReplyDeleteGerrard is the 2nd best midfielder to play in the Premiership era, imho (the 'h' stands for handsome). Some may say that is harsh on Vieira, Keane and Giggs, and with the first two I can understand arguments in their favour (I consider Giggs to be vastly over-rated by most people) but I think Gerrard has just suffered from playing in crappy sides.
ReplyDeleteScholes is easily the Premiership's best midfield player.
Sammihernia - Your having a laugh. I get Scholes... he's a great player, never said he was not? but I believe that Gerrard is a better player, Simple, for the reasons that I posted.
ReplyDelete"but to claim he doesn't make others better after what he did in Istanbul final !?"
ReplyDeletewhat.. you mean dive for the penalty?
Coming from a Utd fan, Gerrard is a legend and undoubtedly a great player. Now, what Keane says should be taken with a pinch of salt. players 'improving' the players around them depends on their style of play. If anyone saw the start of the 2011-12 season, utd were brilliant. It was CLEVERLY who galvanized the team, with him, anderson looked world class, when usually he is a fat useless waste of space. But, In NO WAY is CLEVERLY GREAT. Efficient strikers can make midfielders look genius (milito for sneijder recently, see cazorla doing his all, and no one willing to score for arsenal).
ReplyDeleteSteven Gerrard for me is a GREAT player. Honestly, Roy Keane's opinion will never outweigh the millions of fans worldwide that think Gerrard is top class. Undoubtedly in his prime, Gerrard would run the midfield for fun. I don't think any player could match his commitment then and it was fortunate that I grew up watching his career unfold.
ReplyDeleteIn the 2002-2004 seasons, he was a young player, he was "selfish" and hot blooded like many players are at a younger age, but at the time was anyone complaining about it? NO!!
He burst onto the scene, and sour grapes to the people who can't appreciate that. As for making other players better, its up to the other players to become better and not Steven Gerrard. If you notice, if you put quality players next to Steven Gerrard, 9/10 he will be a magnet to them. His partnership with Torres proves that, he always looked to get a pass to players that were threats. Andy Carroll, Luis Suarez, Torres, Alonso, Garcia for example. To try and make every player around you better just by yourself is a big burden on the shoulder, Gerrard did it to the best of his ability. I see the same with Luis Suarez now, he tries to get people involved, but where is the quality around him?
Roy Keane #Muppet #clueless you don't need to win trophies to b a great player viera n scholes wer fortunate they played in great sides Gerrard didn't. SG best centre midfielder England has ever produced # Fact
ReplyDeletethis article is full of crap just like keanes comment. hw do u want a player to improve others around him? no one can do it. if crap or average players are playing around you, you cant make them play better. however if there was no gerrard in the 2005 and 2006 team we wudnt hav won the champions league and fa cup. he made the team played better and made igor biscan and traore won the champions league. did the likes of messi ronaldino or zidane ever did that? no they didnt coz they were always playing in team full of talents.
ReplyDeletemoreover gerrard himself said that he did not do well for england. same applies for scholes!
ReplyDeletejaimie please stop fooling urself.. you've never seen dalglish play and am pretty sure not even peter beardsley. u once said ur age and u below 30
ReplyDeleteThis is the 1st time I've ever posted ANYTHING online. After using newsnow for a couple of years now I thought I'd give Liverpool-Kop one last chance after a series of sensationalist headlines and pompous commentary by the administrator. Jaimie Kanwar you are without doubt one of the biggest strokers on the web. The tone of your stories indcates that you're trying to portray yourself as being far more knowledgable about football that you actually are. Surely one of the biggest drawbacks of the modern world is that arseholes like you get the chance to soapbox your laughable opinions in public. If you spouted even half your nonsense in a pub around the ground you'd be laughed out of it. After many years and several hundred games following the Reds I've been an expat for 7 years now, but I've forgotten more about football than you'll ever know. Why any Lverpool fan would kiss roykeanes arse is beyond me, and your sanctimonous slap downs of Redmen who disagree with you is frankly pathetic. I really wish you'd pack up your laptop and piss off into the cyber abyss, but seeing as tho I'll be avoiding your pathetic website in future i really don't give a fuck. Here's hoping that the next generation of Redmen don't turn out anything like you. Grade A wanker
ReplyDeleteGerrard has made a massive impact on Liverpool as a club and kept us winning trophies with mediocre players at times. Keane played in some very good Man United sides with alot of great players. Remove Keane from the United sides that won titles when he was there and they would still have won titles, remove Gerrard from Liverpools team that won trophies during Gerrards era and we would not have won them.
ReplyDeleteSo this clearly shows imo that Gerrards impact was bigger.
Funny that a journalist who claims to be a Liverpool fan doesn't even check out the Liverpool official site where these quotes occurred.
ReplyDeletePLayers improving with Gerrard - I'd say Torres, Mascherano, Lucas, Alonso, Sterling, Suso, Owen...
ReplyDeleteJust some I'd name, and most of those midfielders look up to him, remembering the times playing with Gerrard as the best of their careers some of them.
Where are the direct quotes saying that Viera, Keane, Scholes etc improved another player? Who have they improved. That quote from Torres is about as close as you will get.
ReplyDelete"He has not made the players around him better." Yes, you may argue that Paul Scholes has "improved" certain players around him and made than thrive in his presence e.g Wayne Rooney, David Beckham likewise for Patrick Viera, where the likes of Thierry Henry and Robin van Persie improved by leaps and bounds under his leadership. As players, they have also achieved much, much more than Gerrard. Viera has won 3 Premier League titles and 4 FA Cups, including captaining Arsenal to their 49 match unbeaten run which stretched from 2003-2005. Scholes on the other hand has won 10 Premier League titles, 3 FA Cups, 2 League Cups and 2 Champions Leagues. He also played an integral role in United's treble winning season. Based on this, Roy Keane has every right to call Gerrard a less influential and overall a less of a "great" player. But you have to look at the players Gerrard was surrounded with . For example, in the 2004/05 season in which Liverpool famously won their 5th European Cup in Istanbul. He played with the likes of Igor Biscan, Anthony Le Tallec and Salif Diao. Patrick Viera had budding talents like van Persie and Henry around him, whose improvement would only be credited to his leadership. Likewise, Scholes had the likes of the young David Beckham and later Wayne Rooney, who would only improve (because of his influence). You can't judge a player because of the ability of the footballers around him. Of course, a great leader on the pitch can make others play, but for a player to thrive, he has to have an understanding with those around him, and a certain amount of ability. I don't think Scholes or Viera could've made Le Tallec as great as Robin van Persie or Wayne Rooney just by "leading him well". To me, Gerrard will always be greater than the two of them. Mainly because he's so so commanding. Look at the Champions League final of 2005. 3-0 down at halftime against the best team in Europe. Gerrard if I remember right was not having a very good game. The team came out looking hopeless. They scrapped for possession and I feel were at the point where they just wanted to push it out wide and get balls into the box, hoping for someone to get on the end of it and get us back in the game. And they did, Gerrard made the run into the box and somehow found the space to power it into the net. But what came afterwards was what amazed me, the way he lit up the Liverpool fans and his fellow teammates. In all honesty, in that particular season, the team hadn't clicked at all. We played some of our worst football that season. The constant rotation of players wasn't helping either. But despite the incoherence in the play and the relative lack of understanding in the team at times, Gerrard just made it work. He forced us back into the game and we never looked back. He constantly made runs into the Milan box, he was giving Gattuso a very hard time, and inevitably he was brought down, paving way for Alonso to level the game. I will never forget the way he inspired a team of (mostly) bang-average individuals and went head to head with a group of players worlds apart in terms of ability. Only Steven Gerrard could have done that. And that is why, he is, and will always be the greatest midfielder and captain of all time.
ReplyDeleteLet's face it, Roy Keane is by no means normal in any person's summation. He was a plonker as a player and he is a plonker as a "pundit".
ReplyDeleteBut of course this isn't cheating, only the diving that Suarez and Suarez alone does is cheating.
ReplyDeleteHere's something objective, post some articles that are actually flattering to our players and not constantly having a go at our players. Re Gerrard, Gerrard has constantly been played out of position for England, having been played at Left Midfield for much of his international career and when he was played in the centre, he was partnered with someone too much like himself, being Lampard, when he was partnered with a more defensive midfielder like Barry, he excelled because he could get forward more often, which we all know is when he is at his best
ReplyDeleteI thought Leon Osman playing in his first international alongside Gerrard in his 100th had an excellent game due to Gerrard being alongside him. They made an excellent pairing and it was only until Gerrard was subbed and the partnership broke up did Sweden go onto to win. I think Osman will be first to say his fine debut was due to Gerrard being there, so in my opinion here is a recent example of him bringing the best out of a player alongside him.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, I get the feeling from reading your comments, not just on this issue, but on a lot more, that you often try to tarnish the image of LFC and its players, by questioning or undermining the club or manager or players.
ReplyDeleteYes, I am for objective criticism, but I rather think your criticism goes overboard in comparison to your praise for the players and club. Your unbalanced appraisal of eg manchester united leads me to suspect that you may just be out to ruffle feathers in LFC while appearing to be a LFC fan.
Why don't you ask others if they share the same view?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, just like everyone is entitled to disagree with said opinion, just because someone gives an opinion, does not mean it isn't ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteGreat point...Torres said so himself. But I find it strange that you have to measure the "greatness" of a player by the number of trophies he won. Since when has football became an individual game...it's 11 vs 11 for god sake. Messi's Argentina and Ronaldo's Portugal has not won the World Cup, does that mean Messi and Ronaldo are not great players?
ReplyDeleteA fact is that you can't spell or use correct grammar. If you are going to come on here and talk the proverbial, at least be able to spell correctly.
ReplyDeleteJamie - it is very difficult to have respect for your articles when you follow up your articles with the responses you have made below.
ReplyDeleteYou are clearly entrenched in your view point in dismissing the perfectly valid Torres quotes - your first instinct is to deny that they exist and when shown that they do you revert to saying that you don't agree with what he is saying. A man with humility and an open mind would accept that Torres is clearly saying that gerrard improved him as a player.
Secondly, you are determined to point out Roy Keane's right to have a view point but the deride others for their view point. To be fair I don't agree with Roy's opinion and not do I agree with some of the posts that call him names but both Roy and the posters have a right to their view.
Thirdly and most laughable is that you state that 'this isn't North Korea' and Roy is entitled to his view... Then promptly ban others from posting dissenting opinions. I'm afraid that this site is a perfect example of a mini North Korea.
Isn't it clear? He keeps writing these articles for the responses they get. Have you never heard of the term "shock jock"? And they do what he sets out for them to do, therefore, like it or not, he is doing his job.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Is Wes Brown a better player than Gerrard? Surely he must be because he has won more premier league titles than Gerrard has.
ReplyDeleteHow does Gerrard at his peak compare with Joe Cole at his peak or Frank Lampard at his peak? These are much more worthy comparisons. The reason why Gerrard didn't perform as well on the international stage is because Lampard was also in the national side, and they are too similar to have in the same side and let them play how they want to, one of them has to sit back and more times than not, it was Gerrard.
ReplyDelete