Liverpool are through to the FA Cup semi-final, and if Cup competitions were a gauge of real progress then it could be argued that things have moved forward at Anfield. For the realists out there though, it's clear that Liverpool have regressed on the field (overall), and despite Kenny Dalglish's protestations, the only people who need an 'intelligence check' are those who refuse to see that performance in the league has not been good enough this season.
In his weekly column for The Mirror, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson bemoaned Liverpool's 'alarming inconsistency', but seemed sure that the major improvement was only a couple of tweaks away. He argued:
"On the surface, Liverpool have had similar problems to Chelsea this season with players showing an alarming inconsistency. Yet I don’t think they have too many problems to address before they can turn those performances around.
"Don’t get me wrong, I’m not an apologist. They were never going to get fourth place this season because there is not enough quality up front, But with Lucas back next season, and some quality forwards signed in summer, they will look a different team".
If only it was that easy. When Dalglish took over from Roy Hodgson, the same sentiment applied: sign some quality attacking players and Liverpool will look like a different team.
£115m later, and nothing has really changed in the league. Yes, performances have improved a little, but football is a ultimately a results business.
Cup runs are a nice distraction, but the league is Liverpool's 'bread and butter', and is - in my view - the only real gauge of genuine progress on the field.
It will take more than just signing some players and having Lucas back to fix Liverpool's problems. The self-defeating insularity, and needlessly combative mentality of the club needs to change (IMO), and I don't see that happening any time soon.
Jaimie Kanwar
In his weekly column for The Mirror, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson bemoaned Liverpool's 'alarming inconsistency', but seemed sure that the major improvement was only a couple of tweaks away. He argued:
"On the surface, Liverpool have had similar problems to Chelsea this season with players showing an alarming inconsistency. Yet I don’t think they have too many problems to address before they can turn those performances around.
"Don’t get me wrong, I’m not an apologist. They were never going to get fourth place this season because there is not enough quality up front, But with Lucas back next season, and some quality forwards signed in summer, they will look a different team".
If only it was that easy. When Dalglish took over from Roy Hodgson, the same sentiment applied: sign some quality attacking players and Liverpool will look like a different team.
£115m later, and nothing has really changed in the league. Yes, performances have improved a little, but football is a ultimately a results business.
Cup runs are a nice distraction, but the league is Liverpool's 'bread and butter', and is - in my view - the only real gauge of genuine progress on the field.
It will take more than just signing some players and having Lucas back to fix Liverpool's problems. The self-defeating insularity, and needlessly combative mentality of the club needs to change (IMO), and I don't see that happening any time soon.
Jaimie Kanwar
Have you ever considered that you might be helping to create this 'needlessly combative mentality'? Fair enough to criticise the team as no fan is happy with the league position. But to do it from a position of little understanding of how the club is different this season compared to the past 2, and to even claim that performances have regressed, you clearly no nothing about the club and are just another uninformed hack.
ReplyDeleteUtter rubbish. In the main (with a couple of exceptions) we're playing much better football, creating lots of chances and have abandoned the hoofing that characterised much of the Houllier, Benitez and Hodgson eras.
ReplyDeleteI'm a fan of Rafa, but 90% of the time our football was unsightly whereas with Kenny it's way more attractive.
To combine that style with winning consistently is a challenge even the great Jaimie would struggle with.
Remember, we're the width of the post away from a reasonably comfortable fourth spot ... that's the truth of it.
If we were doing better in the league I would be perfectly happy. We're not though; you can go on about what might have been for as long as you like, but the fact remains we're no better in the league than we were under Benitez, or under Hodgson.
ReplyDeleteLucas back, a good right winger and a striker finding the net regularly would do it.
ReplyDelete"remember, we're the width of the post away from a reasonably comfortable fourth spot . . . that's the truth of it"
ReplyDeleteReally?
Not another one please - i hope you do realise that hitting the post/crossbar is OFF TARGET, so EXACTLY the same as hoofing the ball from 6 yards into row z i.e. imcompetent finishing. As we have hit the woodwork so many times this season, you cannot regard this as a fluke but a normal part of our game and thus reflects the poor state of our strike force and we are where we deserve to be, mid table medicrity.
"remember, we're the width of the post away from a reasonably comfortable fourth spot . . . that's the truth of it"
... have a word mate, seriously
It is hardly the same sentiment as "sign some quality attacking players and Liverpool will look like a different team". The players such as were signed were NOT of quality.Adam is completely useless and finally perhaps KD is seeing this as he left him out of selection for the last 2 outings : outings that procured satisfactory results if not completely dynamic play at all times. Adam should be sold without a doubt (Blackpool want to loan Shelvey as a mid-fielder why not let them have Adam back?) and that would be good business. Is it not telling that Holloway does not ask for him back on loan? It speaks volumes to me. Henderson needs to be trained more rather than being an almost guaranteed selection week in and week out. Downing is improving and so is Carroll but only slightly and it is these two attacking players we need to replace during the Summer. Perhaps more tenacious contention for places will aid in their development. That said I rather think that any Carroll improvement is still three or four years off .
ReplyDeleteAs the great man Bill Shankly once said “Liverpool Football Club exists to win trophies”.
ReplyDeleteIf we can't win the league then I'd rather win trophies!!! 4th place is for the new modern day fan. 4th plays says won nothing in nthe record books. Just ask Arsenal.
*adopts Rafa voice* If you want to talk about facts, we might not be any higher in the league (well, considering we were floating above the relegation zone with Hodgson for a period you could have that argued), but we have won a trophy. For the first time in nearly six years, too. It's a big ask, but if we were to win the FA Cup as well, surely you would have to concur we were doing the best we have for the last five years..?
ReplyDeleteWe are in a pickle - stick with the useless dross that will apprently come good in 3-4 years by which time we could be miles off top 4, or KK admits he's wrong and we get rid asap with a view to actually bringing in some quality this summer? Big transfer window coming up...
ReplyDeleteI think this is a common view held by a lot of young fans. I would say have patience things will improve gradually. The owners bought a company I dept an needed money to invest, they have given around 36 million net, but will spend more this summer. But managers need time.we will be giving him the time we gave rafa .
ReplyDeleteIn terms of trophies, yes, but the stated goal at the start of this season was to finish in the CL places, and that will not happen, which will make the season an overall failure.
ReplyDeleteWinning cups is much easier than doing well in the league. Birmingham City won the Carling Cup (!) so it's hardly a stretch. 115m to buy the Carling Cup is not what I call a successful season. Winning the FA Cup would be fantastic though, but it still doesn't mask the failure in the league, nor should it.
The danger is that Dalglish et al will see winning two cups as some kind of evidence that his signings worked out, which could lead to more problems next season.
I agree with Lawro. We are not far off. A lot things haven't gone our way this season. We have been unlucky on and off the pitch. So many unexpected negative things happened like Lucas injuary, Gerrard not recovering on time, Suarez saga resulting in him missing 8 games and loosing focus after returning and not to mention Andy Carroll turned out to be a complete flop.
ReplyDeleteCarroll definitely needs to go next summer. I don't see him fitting in Liverpool team. We need a proven striker. Even teams in bottom half of the table have number 9 who have scored more goals than our number 9. This should be his first and last season in number 9 shirt for this club. If Dalglish stays stubborn and does not believe that he needs to replace Carroll, it will cost him his job next season.
With Lucas back ? Like he makes a difference . Pathetic comment .
ReplyDeleteI totally agree leave finishing with a cheque and 4th place to Arsenal, we want trophies not cheques, football is about finals and medals.................................as a player and fan i can say stuff money up your arris!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIt's not about CL it's about trophies!!!!
ReplyDeleteyou guys can spew all the hate you want around but thankfully it wont get you anywhere
ReplyDeleteMuppet
ReplyDeleteYes, any opinion that doesn't match your must be 'hatred'.
ReplyDeleteJaimie, can you occassionally mention the 70+million that Dalglish/Comolli have brought back into the club. Can we please talk about net spend, as that ultimately is the most important factor. Would i be disappointed if we don't get 4th, yes. Am i realistic that after finishing outside of europe last year and signing 7 new players in the last 15months, that its gonna take time for players to gel and settle, and we might not make it, yes!
ReplyDeleteEven if we don't win the FA Cup this year, i've seen enough to note the club is progressing under Dalglish, despite what others might write or try to make you think.
Net spend is irrelevant; it is an excuse used by fans trying to justify poor performance in the transfer market. Just because money was made back doesn't change the fact that money was abjectly *wasted* on dross, with Liverpool paying a heavy price as a result.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, any gains in net spend will vanish as a result of lost revenue from the CL.
Rafa consistently out performed every manager since our last league tittle win and yet you ridiculed him at virtually every turn, I do agree that the league is the best barometer for improvement however I do value silverwear also. To say we have regressed on the pitch is simply a lie we have played much better and not got the results the performances have warranted. Inconsistencies are a big problem for the current squad which by the way im not overly impressed with but to blindly say we have went backwards from Hodgson is just ridiculous in the extreme.
ReplyDeleteNet spend isn't irrelevant mate, if we sold Suarez for £30m and spent £10m on his replacement, should we then be better because we have spent £10m on strikers?
ReplyDeleteI have always watched both reds and blues although most definitly RED and during the reds glory days the blues played for the most part more atractive football. What do we want entertainment or trophies?
ReplyDeleteWho did Birmingham beat???
ReplyDeleteI'm increasingly disturbed by the way we as Liverpool Football fans debate and argue about the club.
ReplyDeleteWe ALL want sucess we just disagree about how we get there.
I stated before that Rafa and Kenny don't have any problems with each other so why the fans here being so personal?
Personally I think that Kenny's signings have been a poor for the money paid.
Yes players need time to adjust but the Premier League doesn't care about that.
I think the buy British policy was not needed better to get players of quality who are eligable.
Additionally it's a chicken and egg, we want players who are quality while we ourselves are not in the champions league where the bets players are.
It's notable that we were only able to get players like Torres, Alonso, Mascherano, Arbeloa as they were attracted by the CL, Benetiz and the Club.
What Kenny should not do is tell anyone that two cups is a adequate return when the OWNER John Henry's expectation is of a CL place.
It's a dangerous game for Kenny to play and is precisley why I don't think Kenny should say what is deemed sucessful.
We've yet to see what the owners will do at the end of the season if anything at all.
i wouldnt agree with that we always looked like losing under roy and rafa whereas under kenny the problem has been poor finishing and not flooding the box with enough players. i thnk we should sign 2 players in the summer to add to what we have personally would love kaka and cavani and their available.
ReplyDeleteTo conclude that our current league position shows that we are regressing is utter rubbish. Inconsistencies has been a major factor and not to mention the number of times we hit the post.
ReplyDeleteFrom the start, I never expected us to get back into the Champions league this season. With a new bunch of guys in the team, they need time to gel and this season is a platform for better things. Surely, you don't expect a manager to bring in a whole bunch of guys and presto, we are in the Champions League! Look at Manc City. With all the cash and players and only now they are challenging for titles and still stumbling along.
At times the team have played well and overall the signs are there that we will get stronger as years come by and this time, I think we can consistently challenge for honours.
There is better depth in the squad now. Under Benitez, he relies on 2 key players, Stevie and Torres. And over time, the team peaked and then just fell through the roof. Yes, you may say that towards the end, he did not have the funds to buy top class players. But look at the players he did buy. Utter failures and even brought in an injured Aquilani when we need fit bodies in the team. Of course, I am grateful to him for the Champ League title but after that, we are just a nearly team.
At least now, we can sense that team can only get stronger. Never mind this season. Afterall, Rome was not built in a day.
Not really sure where I sit on this one. The main thing is what do the owners think...Are we progressing? Sometimes you have to even take a few steps back to make a whole lot of steps forward. I think winning the Carling Cup, and should we win the FA Cup, may just cover the cracks. But at the same time the club needs stability, and giving KK another season brings that.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't think we are anywhere near ready to play Champions League. Playing Europa league next season may just be a blessing. Could be seen as a stepping stone to the Champions League, as chance to gain experience for the club, its youth players, management etc. Also gives us another season to sort out stadium issues before we move onto big stage. Winning cups aren't a bad thing, it can only bring a winning culture to the club. Winning is a habit, the same applies to winning Cups, league or knock out.
net spend cannot be overlooked. It is one thing to spend 115mil AND keep Torres; quite another to spend the same amount and sell Torres.
ReplyDeleteagree lets stop aiming at 4th and not even getting that. lets aim to win the thing has anyone seen how bad the scum are but their gona win the league cos they believe they can. im sick of going for 4th its a cop out for the players. if we dont win the league its failure and falling short in the league would mean cl qualification. let arsenal celebrate getting outclassed in the last 16 of cl every year but we are liverpool when did 4th become the target.
ReplyDeleteI smell a Rafa rant coming on...
ReplyDeleteThe Suarez incident has ruined this season 20 games with either Suarez under the threat of a ban then the 9 game ban then his comeback games, the last couple of games we are seeing the player from last season and now with Gerrard. Bit of a hurry to sell Carroll after we have lost Cisse,Bellamy,Crouch,Torres,Babel,Ngog,Garcia and Keane in the last 4 years is it really surprising we are struggling for goals and a forward seeing that we have been going through them like a dose of salts?
ReplyDelete"... players showing an alarming inconsistency."
ReplyDelete--
Rather, it's been the case of players being consistently poor.
I find it funny that some of our fans will be satisfied finishing 6-7-8th just because we won the majestically and world renown Carling Cup! Was it good winning the cup? Of course, I loved it. But this season will be deemed as a failure in my eyes since we won't probably get CL. £100 Mill+ spent to win a CC and finishing 7th ish should not be considered as a success.
ReplyDeleteProgress?
Playing wise a little I guess. KD had half a season last yr and we finished 7th (?) and now with a full season we are on our way to finish thereabouts, so I don't think we have made allot of progress especially after spending so much money.
I agree with Jamie relating to the fact that if we win the FA Cup then KD might make that as an excuse for justifying his seeming flops.
Something that we lack which would make a huge difference is to sign 2 good quality wingers and creative attacking midfielder. Watching Valencia yesterday made wish we had signed him or a player of his calibre.
Personal opinion anyway.
U no what? Your comment sounds reasonable and sound. Have't really thought of it like that.
ReplyDeleteFor once i agree with alot of this article. Liverpool are miles off competing with the manchester sides, but maybe not that far away from competing for the top 4. Either way its frustrating. Alot of money spent but not much improvement.
ReplyDeleteReina
ReplyDeleteJohnson Skrtel Agger Enrique
A.Johnson Gerrard Lucas Downing
Suarez
Cavani
Bench:Doni Kelly Coates Spearing Adam Bellamy Carroll
YNWA
Lucas? is Lawro completely insane! He won't make a blind bit of difference. Liverpool need 5 top players ( mostly in midfield ) to get back in the top 4.
ReplyDeleteCarroll does not fit our playing style. He would be more suitable for a team like Stoke who play physical game rather than pass and move game played by Dalglish's team.
ReplyDeleteTalk about yesterday's first goal. If Suarez had passed his ball to Carroll instead of Maxi, he would have never got return pass for scoring that goal. Guy can't pass, can't cross, can't retain. Falls over as soon as someone touches him. I don't see him coming to Liverpool standards in near future. Carroll is impedance for whole team's tempo and movement.
All he can be useful for is winning long-ball headers and defending corners as a marker for big guys. (He can't do even that properly lost Peter Crouch yesterday )
tell us that again when we're bankrupt. Our domsetic cups cannot support our lavish wages.
ReplyDelete115 mill later were only three points above Swansea. When Rafa took over everybody was talking about wining the title cos we haven't won it for so long. KD takes over and over a year later everybody seems happy that we won CC(worthless 4me) and still 7th in PL. Excuse after excuse just cos is KD and who actually dare to criticize just little cos we would like our team to b higher in the league were accused of being ANTI LFC and were constantly told to go and support other teams like Chelsea.
ReplyDeleteJaimeK agree with u 100% mate. Yr spot on. Ynwa
ReplyDeleteback to square one basically. the money for aqua, raul and Adam should be spent on an amazing MF. Adam does not deserve another season.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree. I support Liverpool but a growing majority of LFC fans are ignorant, narrow-minded, and ridiculously tribal.
ReplyDeleteSo, using that logic, Suarez and Carroll cost nothing, right?
ReplyDeleteChi Bai lu, I dont understand what Lawro is talking about!
ReplyDeleteif winning cups was easier than winning the league then why havent liverpool won the FA Cup more than 18 times?? I find it very uneasy that fans would prefer to finsh 4th than win an FA Cup. Winning the carling cup is progress as last year we where knocked out by Northampton!! Getting to the semi finals of the FA Cup is progress as its the highest place for years. On the league front yes, we have been poor in terms of results but the football has been better. Benitez in his last year and Hodgson's brand of football where very poor. I sometimes wish Hodgson would have finished the season as it would have put this season into a greater perspective. If Hodgson finished 11th or 12th, which was on the cards, then us finishing top 6 and with two cups would have been seen as massive progress. It was the fact that KK was the person who gave us the lift that has got us all in a frenzy wondering why he cant replicate the 80's teams in a year. It took KK 4 years to win the league with blackburn, it was a mostly British based team, he slowly worked his way up the table. If we give him time, I am confident he will do the same for us. Instead of celebrating year after year that we finish in the top 4, lets give kk the time and enjoy our success along the way. Some people have questioned KK's tactics but when you look at our record against the so called big teams and so called brilliant continental master tacticians he has come off the better??? I admit that our for against the smaller clubs should have been better but our whole season has revolved around our strikers putting the ball in the back of the net. before we start to blame KK only we need to look at the amount of chances our forwards have missed. Surez for all his mazy runs and trickery fails to score enough, if we are saying he is without doubt a world class player, lets look at him compared to other world class skillful forwards. both messi and ronaldo have skill, both take on players, but both score loads!!! that is the difference!
ReplyDeleteSaying things like ''net spend is irrelevant'', lowers your credibility Jaime. There is a big difference in adding more to a good side than having to first weaken your side before adding more. Bit of common sense please.
ReplyDeleteAlso you said its much easier to win a cup than have a good league finish? There are no words. Teams over achieve in the league every single year. Tell you what, add up all the teams that have done well in the league (for their standards) over the past 20 years and then add up the number of teams who have had the privilege of getting their hands on a trophy. If it was so easy for Birmingham to win the league cup last year, why was it their first time doing it since 1963? Id say they might of had a few more than 2 good league finishes in that time.
Actually Jaime because you are a Liverpool fan you are used to silverwear. Your lucky to support a team that knows how to deliver it better than most. Try telling the other 90% of other fans whose team win a cup every 20years that its easier to win a cup than have a good league finish.
Jaimie,
ReplyDeleteI told you this would happen did I not ?
The reality of this is that at the end of the season there is going to be a decision made by the owners.
The TASKS set by John Henry was for KENNY DALGLISH to provide champions league qualification.
Kenny Dalglish's purchases in addition to the squad have not done that or look likley to do that.
FSG will make a decision as to the following :
1)Does FSG have confidence in the Manager with the players he has bought
2)Do FSG sanction KD to buy more players
3)What are the alternative options
Nothing the fans or spinning the press,will change that view.
The current rallying cry to stop questioning and berating fans who don't agree will not change the owners mind.
Football is a results business and KD & the players know this.
Some have clearly not DELIVERED.
My view is I don't TRUST Kenny's purchases thus far.
The question is do FSG agree.
to be fair to king kenny, it's his first full season in charge so being "realistic" we have to give him time and his signings time to gel.
ReplyDeleteI do not believe what I am reading, KD has made excuse after another, playing his 'favs' instead of proven talent like Bells, Maxi, Kuyt, and we are now content with KD being there for the long-haul becoz he won the last two game? The club has been overturned by Newcastle, Swansea, WBA...was it not stated that he was there to steady the ship?
ReplyDeleteThis is exactly the point i was making, net spend makes a massive difference, it can mean the difference between having 2 very good players or just 1. I don't think i could have said it better Alex. With regards to progress, we have won a trophy are playing better football than last year and are in the FA cup semi-final, whilst still being in a transition season. As acknowledged by the majority of fans and pundits.
ReplyDeleteIt's sad really.Cos we all want the same thing. We all want OUR club to b successful. YNWA
ReplyDeletejamie, my dear boy!! you call yourself a realist?? i have a different word for you, and your followersac!! it's "negative fans", you and your kind, make our club, look like a joke! we have just been to wembley, played a good match yesterday, are on our way bk there, and is all you can do, is moan about the team, kenny, his signings!! we should be excited right now, cuz from where i sat! it the best, the clubs done for a long time!! and, anyone with any footballing nouse what soever, can see things are coming together!! we all knew, that when kenny spent this "money" which you wont stop going on about! the team would not have instant sucsess, we not Man City!! we can't afford to buy two world class players in most positions!! if you thought, that the money spent, everything would be good again?? then, as i said earlier, you know nothing!! is all you keep doing is moaning about the same old things, kennys signings have been a failure?? we all know, that the players which where bought, were not bought for one season in the prem, they young players, still developing, so tell me?? how can you deem them failures?? after one season?? you can't?? if this was the way things where done, we all know Lucas, would not be here right now?? if it where down, to people like you!! which, it aint.. thank god!!
ReplyDeletetis strange you say this, as i actually watched the match with my eyes open, and yesterday, carroll played some decent passes, dilivered a cross beckham would be proud of!
ReplyDeletekirk get back on the enterprise you dope you havnt got a clue get your woollyback hair out your eyes lad .pink echo march 3rd , James Pearce wrote it was great to see Lucas Leiva revelling in the celebrations after the carling cup final victory at wembley .the brazillian midfielder more than played his part in ending Liverpools six-year wait for silverwear having featured in the earlier rounds against Brighton,stoke and chealsea.Lucas was enjoying the best form of his career before his season was cruelly ended by a serious knee injury sustained at stamford bridge in ate November.with his rehab going well,Lucas is hoping to be fit in time for the start of next season.Liverpool have coped in his absence but there`s no question the best defensive midfielder in the premier league has been sorely missed.they will be a much stronger force with him back in the side. so T.J.hooker support another team you jerk !!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd what actual impact did he have on the game? How many goals did he score? 'A few decent passes' - Is that what LFC paid 35m for?
ReplyDeleteSent from Samsung Galaxy Note
-------- Original message --------
Subject: [liverpoolkop] Re: Lawro: *Two things* will make LFC a 'different team' next season... | Liverpool-Kop.com
do you actually watch the prem!! swansea, are playing sone of the best football in it, so, first of all, you disrespecting them big time! and, if i not mistaken... Rafa, inherited a really top LFC team, which is pretty much the team, he won the champions league with!! Rafa, then went on, to pretty much turn, what was a top team, into a two man team!! well done rafa!! Kenny, on the other hand, inherited, pretty much the worse liverpool team, ever seen!! the likes of Konchesky, spring to mind, Poulson, Aqualani... who is a fantastic player, but, would rather pull his own eyeballs out, than play in England!! go support Chelsea!!
ReplyDeletewoy d wed i bet your a manc coz you havn`t got a clue lad or are you Woy Hodgson in disguise ha ha lucas is the best defensive midfielder in the prem and thats a fact
ReplyDeleteThe League Table doesn't lie it's that simple.
ReplyDeleteJohn Henry the man who basically saved us from the sharks stated at the beginning of te season HIS expectation was CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL.
In that aspect Kenny Dalglish has failed.
However, what is interesting is that John Henry's comments were taken AFTER the player purchases.
So at some poing there was a conversation between John Henry and Kenny Dalglish that must have layed out John Henry's expectations.
Kenny MUST have agreed that it was possible with him although never stating that in Public.
So the spinning has started because of that failure to qualify for the Champions League.
The suggestion being that progress has been made we have won a cup and the FA cup is still up for grabs.
hmmmmmmmm!! you say support LFC!! forgive me if i am ignorant, or a little Tribal!! but, doesn't support mean, to give encougagement, and help?? what you do, is the complete opposite!!
ReplyDeletewhat about Enrique? bellamy? downing?
ReplyDeleteTwo thing i can name
ReplyDelete1... kick dalglish out head first
2...bring back Rafa
End of the day gerrard, Suarez, and Carroll have played 4 full games together and won them all. Bring in a top right winger and striker next season and then will see
ReplyDeleteat last!! someone on this site who talks sense!! instead of the doom, and gloom mongeres!! i kinda imagine all these anti LFC fans, " or realists" as they like to call themselves, aint really gettin any action!! ;)
ReplyDeleteis this the same Rafa, who played the most boring football ever?? and turned a world class team, which he inherited, into a two man team?
ReplyDeleteIt depends in what context whether it is irrelevant or not, not by personal opinnion. If we want to justify the signings kenny has made then net spend is irrelevant because it is very clear at the minute that henderson and charlie adam are abit out of their depth (currently) So it doesnt matter how much was spent. Some would argue it was a waste of money. However if we were discussing whether a manager has been backed by the owners then net spend becomes completly relevant. If a manager was to spend 100 million but 90 million was made through players sales, then a lowly 10 million net spend figure would suggest the owner hadnt really backed the manager. If 0nly 60 million was made back then you would say the manager has been backed substantially. So i disagree with the statement that net spend is irrelevant, it just depends in what context.
ReplyDeleteShowing he posses more quality then just being a target man and we should play it to his feet more.
ReplyDeletewhy dnt we use johnson as a right winger and kelly as RB..johnson is awesome going foreward..may be we need to improvise a little with what we have in the team since we cant get 4th place in PL..i personally like shelvy and he has quality to play in 1st team from what i have seen may be use him as a gerrard replacement once a while which will give gerrard some rest aswell. i have full faith on the current squad if they are used properly to their strength..when we play with our heart out and attack, we look like the #1 team in the league..we havn't been ruthless enough against less stronger teams and thats out greatest problem. however, we def need a torres type of striker while he was in a red shirt..torres looked much better wearing red.
ReplyDeletethe difference between the width of the post and row z is massive.One requires a minor tweak while the other is hopeless.statistics are made up by idiots with little or no knowledge of the game
ReplyDeleteNever known a world class team finish 4th in the league and 30 points behind the winners in 2003/04 season when Rafa took over.
ReplyDeleteWhen Rafa left...the team...
Reina
agger
skrtel
Kelly
Johnson
benayoun
mascherano
gerrard
maxi
aquilani
kuyt
torres
definitely looks like a two man team???
Can't you at least pretend we will win everything with kk..
ReplyDeletethe owners will be at Wembly for the finals get all the worldwide coverage the occasion deserves.The same cannot be said of Kreonke or usmanov.When you learn how to win the world is your oyster
ReplyDeleteNet spend has never suited your arguments, so you blindly discount it to suit your agenda
ReplyDeletePathetic
Brilliant point. That's the net spend argument in a nutshell, but because it's a good point it will be ignored
ReplyDeleteCheck figures for Hicks and Gillette, using your point and it proves that those guys never backed the manager
he didn't score any goals!! but, if you watched the game, you'll see, he didn't get any service at all!! we played to narrow, maxi drifts in constantly, and downing was doinf the same, although you can't blame him, as we far more effective on the left, and his link up play with Enrique, is top notch!! i see, that you just love throwing figures around?? which to me is a little like clutching at straws, this 35 million you go on about?? we all know, was extremaly over inflated!! 1, cuz it was the january transfer window. 2, cuz it was a last minute deal, so, Newcastle knew we needed a striker, knew they could bump the price up, and 3, knew we had 50 million in our pockets, from the Torres transfer!! a striker like carroll needs good service into the box, something which has severely been lacking of late!! with downing on the left, and another quality winger, and stevie bk in the team, he will thrive!!
ReplyDeleteThere have been a handfull of games this year that LFC have been poor. Namely man u away sunderland away spurs away and 2 or 3 others.The majority we were the better side. Are you sure you've been watching Liverpool?
ReplyDeleteYYe lets all be deluded
ReplyDeleteIt's good that the club has fans who think like this; making excuses for abject mediocrity is what LFC seems to be all about these days, so you fit right in.
ReplyDeleteThis article is complete nonsense, no better than Barclay or Holt.
ReplyDeleteHow many chances have we created? Suggests not much wrong methinks, despite the authors protestations.
The net spend argument doesn't suit me because it's a fool's argument; a lame way to relinquish responsibility for transfer market ineptitude. Plus, it's only ever used by fans to support managers they like; when it's a manager fans dislike, then you never hear about net spend; you just hear about how much money was wasted.
ReplyDeleteDo we ever hear net spend mentioned in relation to Roy Hodgson?! No. Yet more transparent fan hypocrisy.
Yes, winning the Carling Cup means the world is Liverpool's oyster. The club is the envy of the footballing world! Robin van Persie and Luca Modric are crying into their beer because they missed out on the Carling Cup, and at the end of their careers, not winning that trophy will be the one regret they mournfully tell their grandchildren about.
ReplyDeleteStatistics are *facts* - you know, things that are irrefutably correct and absolutely proven. The only people who dismiss stats are, to use your words, 'idiots with little or no knowledge of the game'
ReplyDeleteThat is just stupid are you saying that you would rather win mickey mouse cups than finishing in the top four and making a nice sum of money and being able to attract the best players in the world.
ReplyDeleteIf so you are supporting the wrong club we need to finish in the top four to eventually become what we once were the best.
If we don’t make the top 4 next season it would be a disaster.
I know a lot of fans just cant see past Kenny but he needs to improve a lot next season if given the chance.
With the money he spent a top 4 finish should of been a walk in the park for us.
If he had played the players that deserved to be playing and not sold Raul to be replaced by Adam and given Aquillani a chance we would have.
First season epic fail in my opinion.
I would love to see Kenny prove me wrong.
I’m not a negative fan I just dont think we should of dropped our expectations after spending so much.
I want us to be back in the Champions League and fighting for titles and Kenny’s signings are never going to take us there.
Chances do not win games; goals and points win games. Who cares how many chances have been created if our players are too inept to finish them?
ReplyDeleteI'm sure I've been watching the team that has scored 33 goals in 28 games in the league.
ReplyDeleteWhich will be fine if they do learn how to win but the kick-on from the Carling Cup win never happened and the money from winnning those cups pales into insignificance compared to the CL income.
ReplyDeleteI worry that if Liverpool will have to seriously start cutting costs, transfers and wages, if they don't get back into the CL, if not this season then next. If that happens then it becomes more difficult to attract players and even cup wins like this one will go away.
I wonder what your opinion will be next season if Andy scores 20 Hendo 10 with a fair amount of assists and similar from downing, with fourth spot secured? Money being wasted or not is a matter of results, sometimes it takes a little longer for things to click. Big Benitez fan BIGGER KK fan.
ReplyDeletekelly was barely in the team then, yossi... if you remember, left because of the way Rafa treated him!! fact!! he was one of our best attacking, creative players, and what did rafa do?? leave him on the bench most of the time, used him primarly as a sub, when everyone with half a brain, could see that he made thing happen!! aqualani?? great player, but lets not forget rafa bought him, while injured, when the team, needed an immediate replacement!! then when he was finally fit, what did Rafa do next?? pretty much refused to play him, even tho, we all could see, the guy can open up defences!!maxi, is one of the most overated players ever, he banged a few goals in, a few matches, and people fawn over him!! before that, he never did anything worth mentioning, and since then, he aint either!! kuyt, was never great under Rafa, he was industriuos, but, he has improved with Kenny as boss! glen johnson a liability, and everyone knows it, kelly will be first choice before long!! another bad buy, from Rafa!! there was only two players in that team, who thrived under Rafa, stevie and torres!!whenever gerrard or torres was out, the team soooo struggled!! now, when gerrard out, carra out, the team can cope!! the whole team doesn't solely rely on those two players!! Rafa, helped mess our club up, when he went to Inter, a champions league winning side, and messed that team up too!!
ReplyDeleteKK inherited a winning team from Fagan and Paisley too. When they grew old, Kenny retired, leaving the next manager with Speedie, Rosenthal and Jimmy Carter...
ReplyDeleteRoy wasn't there long enough to even have his signings scrutinised. But Konchesky just wasn't up to standard, not in a million years!!
ReplyDeleteRafa had to overhaul a weak team, with comparatively (to City or Chelsea) low financial backing, and try to challenge and displace decades long strong, entrenched rivals
I'm a reasonable person..... (just don't ask my wife :)
I totally agree that net spend argument doesn't excuse dodgy (pricewise) signings such as Aqualani, Keane, Johnson or over priced players such as Carroll
BUT, surely there has to be recognition on your part that the net figure represents the manager's tools to work with AND implicitly highlights how committed the owners are
He was injured though, we must have glossed over the medical. or had no time to complete one properly
ReplyDeleteWe messed up by paying that much
I always hoped that it wasn't really that amount but was just spun that way by Newcastle to appease fans
Apart from exceptions (Suarez, Torres), how often do players come in and perform to the highest ability? To say the signings that Kenny has made are bad is just short sighted. Look at Lucas Leiva. He has been Liverpool's best player for the past two seasons by a county mile ,before the injury. But when he first came people wanted him strung up!
ReplyDeleteI am not saying that Kenny didn't pay over the odds for some of the signings but you have also got to look at the facts, Henderson is the England under 21 captain and is still only young lad 21 , Downing was the most successful winger in the league last season, Adam was wanted by a host of top clubs before signing, and cost a mere 8 million, a small risk in todays market, and Suarez is one of the best players in the league and has the ability to become one of the greatest players in the world. so lets not string KK up just yet eh!
By the way, to compare The King to the man who went out of the League cup to Northampton in the second round is ridiculous.
They are good pros though, probably crying into their multivitamin drinks ;)
ReplyDeleteStrange words to use kick Dalglish out head first? Football world coming together for Muamba but you wish to injury our manager.
ReplyDeleteso you saying history repeats itself??
ReplyDeleteNow you're talking about goals scored. Which is fair comment. But can players really be consistantly poor while being the best side in a match?
ReplyDeleteok!! i not making excuses!! anyone, who saw carroll play for Newcastle, can see the lads got talent, and forgive me if i wrong?? but at times, he has having pundits, which, know a thing or two, far more than you do! saying such things as, " at times, he unplayabble" and he the future of English football, just because he hasn't made an instant impact,you write him off as a failure?? i bet you was saying the same thing about lucas when he arrived? and seeing you think you know far more than kenny, and anyone else... please tell me these magnificent players that you'd of signed?
ReplyDeletewe can all sit here, and think we could pick a better team, buy better players!! but this aint Fifa!! if you knew your shit, then you'd be managing a football team, instead of whining and moaning on this site!!
ReplyDeleteDidn't he buy Barnes, Beardsley,Houghton,Spackman and Aldridge first?Blood Staunton,Ablett and Mcmanaman?
ReplyDeleteSignings of Fowler and Redknapp? Didn't Rosenthal goals when he first arrive fired us to the title in 90? Speedie 12 games 6 goals? Goals against Man U and Everton? Jimmy Carter he was rubbish!
Your feedback on LFC is one sided. Constantly bringing Liverpool down time after time. You cannot be a supporter of the club so why comment. You focus on the negative never the positive.
ReplyDeleteMakes me laugh when you say with "Lucas back" we will look a different team. I can guarantee that you are the type of person to mock Lucas time after time but now singing his praises.
Liverpool is a Football Club which these days is a brand which means a business. So when you say net spend does not matter its like saying margin doesn't matter either, wake up!
Liverpool have won their first cup in 6 years that alone is progress. When you mention the past and mock a team like Birmingham when they won the Carling cup its a disgrace. Every team that wins a cup deserves too. You look back at careers and see what players won what not what they could of won or how close they were to winning things. Trophies and cups are what players sign for Liverpool for. With Liverpool also up semi final again progress. (Yes Liverpool league position is not were we want to be but good things come to those who wait)
Liverpool fans are not as you say "ignorant, narrow-minded, and ridiculously tribal" Liverpool fans are committed, loyal, and best fans worldwide. To see their club get mocked time after time by your one sided embarrassing comments is like watching United win the league (disgusting)
I will agree that spending 35m on Andy C was too much and could of been spent more wisely. I also believe letting Joe Cole and Aqualani go on loan could be a bad move. We do need a world class winger and striker including a new center midfield, but in Kenny I/WE trust. Rome was not built in a day and Liverpool are a building team, which hurts to say.
Maybe less of your negative comments and more praises were due e.g. Skrtel's performances have been outstanding. Enrique has been outstanding, Jay Spearing lately been really good. Gerrard return since injury has lifted the club, or what about the good new for the 96 as now justice may be found for all the families that deserve this.
Thank you.
When Rafa first took over you were talking about winning the league? 5 years before he even got close.
ReplyDeleteWriting players are shite isn't really criticizing it's insulting them!
You are funny , but thick , so you think Lucas is good cos you read an article in the echo , my opinion is based on watching him .
ReplyDeleteyeah, he was injured, thats why i give him even more a break! cuz, it took him a while to play, then when he did, he played mainly as a sub, when he started, he looked well off the pace, everyone could see he weren't match fit! and, it was difficult , as he didn't get a decent run of games, but now he getting more games, you can see he improving!! i sure that it wont be too long, before we get the player he was at Newcastle!!
ReplyDeleteJaimie when BS writes the players are shite like has in the past isn't he ignorant,narrow minded and ridiculous?
ReplyDeleteThe team is inconsistent so if a team is inconsistent they must showing signs of quality at times and need to become more consistent in the league like they have been in the cups.
Isn't he breaking your rules by using insults like shite?
If cups are so easy then why did it cost man city over 200m pounds to just win the FA cup
ReplyDeleteYou're starting to sound a bit like Houllier.
ReplyDeleteMean the Arsenal team that never recovered from losing the CC final last season?
ReplyDeleteHow many competitions did RVP crash out of last season after the Birmingham loss? I bet he was crying by the end of the season.
Modric who wanted to join Chelsea? Cup Kings of recent times. 2 CC 3 FA Cups to go with the league titles , the 2 finals they lost.
Footballers want to be known for what they won not just for finishing 4th, how many players did Arsenal lose last season even though they finished 4th?
Spare me the ‘woodwork’ argument. If a snooker player kept
ReplyDeleterattling the pockets rather than potting, it wouldn’t be described as ‘bad
luck’, it would be recognised as not good enough.
Let’s compare how is he club is doing so far this season
with 2009-10, the final season when Benitez was in charge. Liverpool ended in 7th
on 63 points; scoring 61 goals and conceding 35. That season, Liverpool ended
21 points behind the Champions, Chelsea. This was bad enough to get Benitez
sacked.
So far, Liverpool points total is 42. If points continue to
be gained at this rate, then the season total will be 57. This would have meant
9th place in Benitez’s last season. Liverpool will end up 35 points
behind Manchester United if they continue as they are. At the current rate of
scoring, Liverpool will end the season on 45 scored and 41 conceded.
So, unless things change, the current team will gain 6 fewer
points, score 16 fewer goals and concede 10 more; and end up 23 points further behind the likely top team. This
is despite having spent over £114m gross (£42m net) on new players. I do
actually think Henderson might eventually turn out useful. The same goes for
Carroll. But Adam? He’s one of the poorest players I’ve seen in a Liverpool
shirt in more than 40 years of watching. At 8p he’d be overpriced, but at £8m?
Downing is average….no more. He never was £20m worth of player.
The strategy this year was to overspend on players with
Premiership experience so that they wouldn’t need time to settle, and would
push the club into a CL place. I don’t know whether this was Dalglish’s plan or
Comolli. It hasn’t worked, and has wasted money. Adam and Downing, are unlikely
to get much better. Henderson and Carroll may, but will never be worth the
money spent.
Even if Liverpool win the FA Cup, the real ‘bread and
butter’; the competition that earns the money and attracts the top players, is
the Champions League. At the moment, this looks further away than ever.
you were talking sense till you started the anti raffa
ReplyDeletenever mind all the crap of how much was spent and how much we saved, Liverpool football club is about winning trophys end off, I dont see any 2nd 3rd or 4th titles in our honours list that what makes us special.Bill shankly once said if you are second you are nothing and that means we should be aiming for that no1 spot,we are getting there but it will take time fine lines my friends fine lines
ReplyDeleteffs the seasons not over.
ReplyDeleteFact is, we have Swansea chasing us in the league, and Newcastle 5 points ahead of us. I get the impression that people are saying that it is bad luck that has caused this situation. I think that we will have to make the cup final, and put in a very good performance when we get there, if we can honestly say that the current regime is in any way moving in the right direction.
ReplyDeleteIt's all well and good to say how unlucky we've been in front of goal, but we've had no european football to contend with and two of the teams who have, Arsenal and Chelsea, have had torrid seasons and we are still trailing in their wake. That should not be good enough for Liverpool.
I do believe in the net spend argument, but that does not excuse selling 57 million worth of players and overspending on replacements who are not looking up to the job. You don't spend that kind of money to take 3 years to reach your potential. If we wanted Carroll to come good in 2 years, why pay the inflated price last January? If you spend that kind of money, your boss is entitled to expect a return before the 2012-13 season. Same goes for Henderson. That's 55 million worth of players that should have been spent on players who could do the job now. How did Pardew manage to get Ba and Cabaye, not to mention Cisse, and Newcastle got Tiote as well, for around 25 million for the four of them? What's Newcastle's net spend?
Even more worrying is that we appear to be a cup team, only up for certain games and extremely poor in others. If you look at our results against teams like Stoke this season, there is nothing to suggest that we are much better than them. That should be a worry for our supporters, given what we have spent.
your argument!! is worse than useless, you trying to predict, where we will finish?? you have seriousluy lost the plot??
ReplyDeleteWinning cups isn't a barometer of success or progress apparently? Either is playing great one touch flowing football that is a joy to watch, apparently. Only in the world of Mr Kanwar will you ever see such statements written and defended with so much conviction.
ReplyDeleteFrom a lackluster final season under Rafa, the H&G era and the Hodgson debacle we now have a football club in unity with the owners, the sponsors, the manager and the fans. We have a squad where we have real competition for places not seen in years, we have an academy winning plaudits all over Europe and we have free flowing attacking football to watch on the pitch. All this in a very short space of time, only a fool would say that Liverpool Football Club is not showing progress.
Enrique:YES Bellamy (Was Origannly signed by Rafa): YES Downing:NO
ReplyDeleteThe underperformance under Kenny, Rafa and Roy were all for different reasons. Underperformance may be a fact and results have indeed failed to improve, but I think we need to consider the factors behind the results to get a clearer picture of where indeed the club is heading.
ReplyDeleteUnder Rafa and Roy, we have never had an adequate squad. Our bench quality was always deplorable. Up until now, not being Arsenal and not having Arsene Wenger at the helm, we have never had the resources to compete with the likes of both Manc clubs, Chelsea and Spurs. Rafa did well enough to keep our noses ahead of Spurs for 5 seasons. I don't think in that respect, any of our managers could be held accountable for a wafer thin squad. The club's resources just weren't managed well enough and that's not the football manager's job.
I agree on facts and figures our league position has not improved on what Roy or Rafa had managed, but it is clear enough to myself and many that we are moving forward. Once again, we'll have to look at our bench and consider the quality of players benched. Week after week, fans come to this site to argue who should be playing based on form or potential. Under Rafa and Roy, it was alot clearer who shouldn't be playing. Adam, Downing and Carroll have all had their share of being singled out as not good enough and actually making positive contributions - could this have been applied to Poulsen or Konchesky? How about Mark Gonzalez or Fernando Morientes? Josemi? Kromkamp? Zenden? Degen?
Rafa's superiority did shine through when he won the Champions' League with Houllier's team, when he got us to the final another time and when he was pushing for the title in 08-09 with what was not quite the Spurs of this season, i.e. the best starting 11 without the adequate cover, although Spurs 2nd stringers are better than what we had under Rafa.
Rafa's so called downfall was the 08-09 season taking its toll on Gerrard and Torres and the failure to replace Alonso. These were problems of not having sufficient cover. Roy never remedied Rafa's problems, and even worse still, got the team playing a brand of football that was neither attractive nor efficient. Kenny may have splurged on players but our failure to perform this season is primarily because so many players were bought and all of them had to be integrated. We always seem to be playing the ones more in need of form than the ones on form - although we have indeed played our form players in the cups. This is why we should be gauging our performances on the cups.
We didn't have any European football this season, so already, we didn't have the extra games to acclimatise our new players. I also believe Kenny was prioritising winning something. Players don't find form suddenly. Most of them have to be played to form. It took no less than 3 seasons to do it for Lucas. Until players have acclimatised to one another, it will always be hard for a manager's vision to pay dividends. The idea behind the huge clearout and huge spend is to ensure we have a squad that can be freely rotated without losing too much quality. Consequently, all the players have to be given a shot to play their way to match fitness; hence it was always an inevitability we were going to perform this season similarly to Rafa's last where the squad has simply failed to gel for most of the season.
There have been signs in 3 of our last 4 games that suggest the squad is finally coming together and that should bode well for the next 2-3 seasons, during which I am certain we will strengthen, not in a big way, but focusing the club's resources on fewer but better quality signings. Comolli and Dalglish have both promised no more big changes. This was our season of big change and the change is only beginning to settle.
I think it boils down to how we gauge 'poor' or 'good'. Some of us base it on effort, some on the quality of the art of footballing, some on how together the team was and some on actually winning.
ReplyDeleteUnited seem to get away with being 'poor' because their method of chance creation beats everyone else's and is only being attempted inconsistently by Swansea. They are always looking to have 4 players home in on goal at once where all 4 players will be well spread and staggered so the person with the ball has options. This will almost always beat a keeper no matter how good he is. No matter how poorly United play, they will always try to set up such an instance and that is why they always score.
With natural improvement in many players bought in and possibly a top quality finisher joining in the summer i think this season will be looked at as the next step.
ReplyDeleteIt has not been a great season but most of the team can add more to the side than they have this year.
I thought you were supposed to comment on the points raised by people and not attack them personally on this site?
ReplyDeleteLucas has been our best player over the last two seasons. He stops the opposition playing, controls the tempo and starts counter attacks.
ReplyDeleteAll the people calling for Kenny out, do you really want us to become a Chelsea and laughing stock. Managers need more than a season to imprint thier ideas on a club and get the squad how they want it. Players take time to adjust espcially the younger players who are getting used to a big club mentality. This season the performances have been good at least 90% of the time, the results not so due to not being clinical enough. That is not something that worries me and makes me think we need wholesale change, as Lawro mentions it is just about ironing our the last few creases and making a few tweaks. A quality right winger and a clinical finisher would make a world of difference and give us that bit of quality we have been missing in the final third.
ReplyDeleteYou really can't use that only trophies count argument. If the CL and the mega money you get by qualifying for it had existed in our golden years then our managers back then would have had different goals.
ReplyDeleteThen a top four finish would have been worth more than winning a cup. Back then it wasn't much difference financially to play in the UEFA Cup or the European Cup.
Liverpool FC is a global brand and if we don't qualify for the CL then our sponsorships will get worse and worse.
Our sponsors want to be seen in the CL.
Different times means different priorities.
How to Lie with Statistics is a book written by Darrell Huff in 1954.It has become one of the best-selling statistics books in history
ReplyDeleteBeing 'best side in a match' without scoring goals is equal to being poor in the overall scheme of things, which is what matters when gauging a team in the sense of entire season.
ReplyDeletePerfect passing and flowing movement doesn't brand you a 'well playing team' if you don't achieve goals, which is what all that passing and movement is done for.
Ask Birmingham if its all about winning a mickey mouse cup
ReplyDeleteSimple, because man city is mid table club & they need total overhaul to become CL quality team. I'm fed up with these comparison with City. We are Liverpool remember?
ReplyDeleteWell put...as for Adam he wouldn't look out of place at blackpool right now and you know where they are...
ReplyDeleteCarroll has been here for almost 1 and half seasons and he still needs time...but David Ngog wasn't give the time at age of 19 but this donkey is 23 yrs of age and excuse after excuse...
Downing is an attacking midfielder/ winger who went a whole season without scoring a single goal for villa 2 seasons ago ...so what do you expect.
Henderson is headless chicken ..end of
jamie, you are such a know-all
ReplyDeletenot much improvement??? Just please try and remember the football we were playing under Roy Hodgson. There has been massive improvement.
ReplyDeleteWe are miles of fourth place man, we are as close to 15th as we are to 4th place.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree about the attractive football too... against Man.U and City we played horrible football and often its impossible to establish what our plan in a match is... the tactics seem aimless.
Anyhow, my girlfriends making me get off this so I'll have to finish this comment on another occasion, haha...
I'm simply giving you some figures. If you don't like them, well be an ostrich. That's losing the plot. As Jaimie pointed out previously, Liverpool have gained fewer points than Wigan in 2012 prior to the Everton game. The league performances have been poor. If this carries on for the remainder of the season, those are the figures, like them or not.
ReplyDeleteThere's more chance of Billy Liddell rising from the grave and signing for Man United that what you've described happening.
ReplyDeleteGreat points, Pastor. I hope you're right about things improving over the next 2-3 seasons but I just can't see it. If the plan was to rebuild slowly over a few seasons then why was the goal at the start to finish in the top 4? Surely that suggests that John Henry et al wanted a return on investment this season, not in three years?
ReplyDeleteAnd that proves what, exactly...?
ReplyDeleteYes, you were right, Septimus. I totally agree with you re Kenny' purchases; I don't trust him to spend LFC's money wisely.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of the owners, I fear that they will be wowed by the Wembley experience and the silverware, which they mistake for genuine progress. After all, what do they know about English football? They probably think winning the Carling Cup is as prestigious as winning the SuperBowl (!)
Morris Jeff - your views are very welcome here but please refrain from belittling fellow posters. Thanks.
ReplyDeletesorry to say but i agree with jaimie cup runs and success is good but i would much rather be fighting for the league!
ReplyDeleteIt means you can manipulate statistics to prove anything, and lots of people know and practice this.
ReplyDeleteAnd what stats have I 'manipulated'? I have stated facts about Liverpool's season - there's no need for manipulation as the stats speak for themselves.
ReplyDeleteLiverpool use OPTA stats and PROZONE stats extensively to track players and opposition teams. I suppose these are meaningless too?
The 'statistics are evil' argument is old and cliched nowadays, and it's only advanced by by people to discredit the stats they don't want to accept. People always laud stats that prove what they think. Funny that...
For KK's sakes...I hope so. I really do.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am saying you guys keep saying Rafa winning with Houllier's squad while ignoring the fact that KK was doing the same thing when he won the double.
When Rafa built his squad, with whatever loose change he earned (from consistently be in in CL), he had to compete with far richer teams like Chelskis, Scums and later part, City.
When we won the double, our serious competitor was only Everton!
Yes he did...and I never ignored that fact.
ReplyDeleteAll I am saying is if you want to belittle Rafa's achievement then you should be saying the same about KK's previous regime.
KK achieved the double with the bulk of the players purchased during Fagan's and Paisley's regimes.
He did not achieved the double with his later squads did he?
We signed Suarez and Carroll in recent times, they are two forwards. So Lawro wants us to buy more? What does that say about Suarez and Carroll, Lawro?
ReplyDeleteDitto about the bigger picture about KK's first reign. Souness might have gone about the transition in a gung-ho and rash manner (Should not have done away with Beardo so quick) but he was left a squad by KK that needed refreshing.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why your harping on about how Brum didn't win it since 1963. Poor twisting of the situation.
ReplyDeleteThe domestic cups clearly were far more important and prestigious in the early days. In the last decade or more, it has lost a lot of meaning, especially the Carling Cup, hence the likes of Boro, Rovers, Tranmare Rovers, Leicester City, Brum, Bolton, Wigan and Villa have all made the League Cup final since 2000.
Ha....ha(!)
ReplyDeleteIs that it? Is that your riposte? Aren't you worried as to how poor we are if we can't finish off these chances you are talking about
ReplyDeleteTo start off with, let me remind you all we finished 7th last season.
ReplyDeleteThis immediately meant that most top players would not wish to join us. With me so far?
According to most people, Liverpool DEFINITELY had to make their squad better, and even though 115 million seems a bit much, is it really so?
It seems that we had no choice but to spend this 115 million or get risked being scolded by fans who do not think properly, as well as stupid pundits (if you know what I mean).
Suarez, was of course a very good signing who effectively replaced Torres, which I hope everyone agrees.
Carroll, was not our first choice, if you want to know. If Torres had not left Liverpool, we would not have bought Carroll, quite obviously. In fact, judging by his recent performances, I feel that he is starting to get his form back.Moreover, Carroll would not have been first on the list, and I believe Kenny was looking at Mario Gomez and Fernando Llorente.
Downing, yet again, was not our first choice. We wanted Ashley Young, who chose CL football with ManU.
Henderson, was one for the future, but due to inconsistency from many of our players, he is somewhat first team.
Adam is actually a fantastic player. People all commented on how AMAZING he did in Blackpool, so now he sucks at Liverpool. But if you are a star in Blackpool, does it mean you can be a star in Liverpool? He is merely not shining like he used to, and he has to adapt to not being the best player in his club anymore!
Many fans complain of how we are doing so poorly this season, but if you look back, ever Benitez's last season was the starting point for this problem, so any manager taking the reins would obviously have a tough time steering Liverpool through this period of transition.
As for next season, for I do not think we could achieve 4th anymore this season, I think Lawro may be right. Lucas is a great player. This is very obvious during this season. After he got injured, our defence became leakier than Arsenal's. Only the inclusion of Spearing got back our sturdy defence. Signing strikers, perhaps one more, either as a top striker, or a squad player, Podolski looks good. :)
For all those complainers, please have faith in our club. YNWA :)
Am glad most ppl are still supporting KD. Most ppl know that
ReplyDeleteLiverpool is now playing better and more attractive football than under
Houllier, Rafa or Roy, that's a fact.
There have been problems on and off the pitch, and thats also a fact.
We hope to stick the ball into the net more often than we do, dats a fact
too. But its not easy to find a striker and sometimes a manager gets the wrong
buy. So give him abit of time to sort it out, especially since most fans are
beginning to enjoy the Liverpool football style again. Its been almost 2 decades
since I've enjoyed Liverpool play. Think Roy Evans team was the closest to how
the 80s team played. This team is getting there.
Think your constant bashing of KD is getting more incessant and getting abit too much. I frankly think he is doing a decent job so far, better than Rafa and Roy honestly and should be given more time.
ReplyDeleteWhen Alonso left, some 'experts' said that Rafa broke the two-man team...I wonder how is that so?
ReplyDeleteKuyt's 4 goals this season an improvement?
Rafa gave Kelly his debut...remember?
When Gerrard out, we had no idea what to do against Sunderland.
So did Rafa ,the trophies he won were mainly with players from Houllier's reign. Rafa never won a trophy with a squad he built but did buy some great players but he became obsessed with big money signings when his best buys for us were all nearly £10 million or less! Alonso,Kuyt,Reina,Agger,Arbeloa,SkrtelCrouch,Bellamy,Yossi,Sissoko,Lucas and Garcia all clever buys where he had done his homework the signing of Torres and Mascherano were great but because of the owners and Rafa's pursuit of Barry in the end it undermined all of Rafa's early hard work from 04/07.
ReplyDeletewhy would anyone in their right senses defend carroll. he is as slow as anyone i have ever seen, his control is poor, he loses aerial battles to players half his height, we need to sell him now
ReplyDelete85/86 season we finished 2 points a head of Everton and 4 points ahead of West Ham 3 way fight for the league.
ReplyDelete84/85 season Everton finished 13 points ahead of us with Spurs tied on 77 points with us and M United a point behind. The number of teams challenging for the league hasn't really changed BUT the money side of it has.
It was our first FA Cup final in 9 years in 85/86 season something Paisley and Fagan didn't win.
So Kenny didn't freshen up in 87
ReplyDeleteFagan's and Paisley's squad?
Kenny spent well and built is own title winning team in 88 and 90, that is the bigger picture if you are looking at Kennys first time in charge not just his first year.
By your logic...he still won inter WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONSHIP......hell of a lot better than mickey mouse cup
ReplyDeletecuz we all know, thats such a coveted cup!! who watches that nonsense?
ReplyDeletealonso had one great season at liverpool, and that was only cuz he knew he was going, and trying to impress potentioul suitors!! did Rafa stick with kelly??? even when he impressed?? rafa, forced out most of our good players!! Cisse!! Crouch!! keane!!Alonso!!
ReplyDeleteyou tell me?? how on earth, can someone base a point, on games that aint even been played yet?? should call himself Mystic Meg!!
ReplyDeleteif's!! but's!! would of's!! could of's!! your agument is sooo flawed!! you now having to ,make things up!!
ReplyDeleteha!! you must be sat at home, picking out stats, to try and prove your point!! if downing went a whole season without scoring, two seasons ago, why don't you mentionthe fact, that he was the best winger in the prem last season, even out performing ashley young!! i saw him in a lot of games, and he was top class!! have you by any chance watched any of these games?? just because he hasn't adapted, at LFC immediately, does not make the lad, a bad player!! in fact, seeing as you like quoting stats, to try and prove your point, can you please tell me where downing lies, in terms of wingers over the last few seasons in the prem??
ReplyDeleteisiko, are you an overseas fan? i ask, cuz, if toy saw this lad play for Newcastle, where he actually destroyed defenders, the lad was unplayable at times. His game aint about speed, it all about aggression, an physical prowness!! he hasn't hit the ground running at LFC, but that dont make him a bad player, the lad aint had much in the way of decent balls into him!! so, other players are to blame too!! i bet you, the lad will bang in 15-20 goals next season!! so tell me, why would you sell him now? when he still young, and developing?? he only just getting his first decent run out in the team??
ReplyDeleteA-frigging-men!! :) love what you wrote, i couldn't of put it better!! people that come on hear, and state the old.... Aguero went to city for the same money!! we could of bought him!! erm... no we couldn't, as we have no champs league, and can't afford wages, in excess of 200 thousand a week!! like you said, young went to man u, so in my opinion, downing was , the next best thing!! but again... we could of bought mata!! again, for the same reasons , we couldn't, also, we needed an out and out winger, not someone who drifts in, like mata!! when you look at LFC now, we dont just have a first eleven, which we did for quite a while, now we have a little more depth, when you got a bench with bellamy, carra and adam sat on it, i'd say we in a lot better position, to where we was!!
ReplyDeletedo you watch football?? most top teams have around four forwards!! man u - Rooney-chicherito-Berbatov-Welbeck!!they have another.. but i seem to have forgotton his name!! City-Agureo-Ballotteli-Dzeko-Tevez!! the aim in football, is to build a strong squad, not just a first eleven!!
ReplyDeleteour team, regressed so much, that challenging for top honours, absoloubtly impossible this season, maybe even next!! our team was sinking fast, you cant just expect us to jump from where we were, to the top of the table!! the team needs building again, which kenny is doing right now!! you have to ride the rough, wi the smooth, can you not see this?
ReplyDeleteSince you can see into the future and see Carroll score 20goals next season .
ReplyDeletewill Adam be able to pass the ball forward or even in the direction of a team mate.
aswell. will downing score more than 2 goals
and will Henderson find his head
Will dalglish ask Camolie to sign non British
You ain't dalglish in disguise?
downing a really good winger, i watched a lot of his games at villa, just cus he aint hit the road running, don't mean he aint gonna come good!! over the last few seasons, he been one of the most consistent wingers in the prem! fact!! didn't Rafa move Bellamy on?? way before his time?? like he did, most players
ReplyDeleteAnd how can you say that Carroll will score 20goals next season. forgot you've got a crystal ball....bit hypocritical
ReplyDeleteWe've got one and he's a donkey
ReplyDeleteCouldn't be at the top otherwise chelsea ..man u..man city..spurs ..arsenal would have shown slightest interest in him
ReplyDeleteWhy did man u take ashley young instead.
........as for your stats...just by pumping a ball into the penalty area is classed as a cross and downing did plenty of them...even Charlie Adam did em too...that's why Barcelona never came in for them and when new manager comes in the summer and gets rid of them ..they will go back to the likes of villa and blackpool
I agree, the season before he left, Alonso was amazing. Two season before, he was less. It was the kick up the backside for Alonso. His sale generate much needed cash for the club.
ReplyDeleteCisse?
When Rafa purchased Crouch, I believe many were questioning his wisdom. But Crouch turned out to be a great acquisition. Rafa had to sell Crouch. Torres and Gerrard were on fire at that time. Liverpool do not have the budget to keep Crouch on the bench.
Was it fair to keep a player at his prime on the bench? Anyway, Crouch's sale did generate money, which thanks to H&G, we were desperate for.
Keane? Who wants him? Rafa or Parry?
Hi return to spurs yield nothing significant.
Sir, your earlier post you were moaning about people picking out teams like FIFA...there could be reasons like why Kelly and Benayoun were not playing as much as we, fans would have like. Then why are questioning Rafa's team selection?
And we've not recovered from winning it
ReplyDeleteNot at 10:52 PM I wasn't, no.
ReplyDeleteI am a Liverpool supporter. And I think some of comments here are disrespectful to Jaimie. He brought up this site and articles for interactions between the fans. Even we may not agree with him, we shouldn't spam comments like 'hatred' or 'Anti LFC fans' to him. For every game for every club, there are certainly some positives and negatives out there. Pointing out the negatives doesn't mean that we are Anti LFC, this is the only way to improve things, just talking about positives will get you nowhere.
ReplyDeleteBack to the topic, I am confused when people are saying the likes of Skrtel, Agger, Kelly, or even Kuyt, Maxi are playing much better under Kenny than Rafa. I do think that the statement is a little far-fetched considering Kenny himself can't even get the best out of his own signings, Carroll, Downing and he defended his signings multiple times publicly. Reina had made some silly errors this season, so shall we say that Kenny can't get best out of Reina?
I may be one of the minority here, but I don't think Kenny is playing attractive football at this moment. His tactic are plain dull and looks the same every time against any opponent. We had scored 33 goals this season and conceded 26 times so far with 10 games left. As for 08-09 season summary under Rafa, we scored 77 goals and conceded 27 times.
Even without the statistics, I think the pattern of Liverpool's attacking play is obvious in the field. We rely on pace, speed of wingers and wing backs and individual skills by Suarez too much. Seldom we can see any defense splitting passes or intelligent plays by Adam or Henderson in the game compared to Alonso last time. There is no creativity in midfield, that's why we need Bellamy so much for important games. He is the fastest player in our squad. Sometimes we play ugly football under Rafa, it's because we're playing knockout stages of the competition. Remember we had beaten Man Utd 4-1, Aston Villa 5-0 in the league. I definitely don't think that is ugly football.
I'm not Anti LFC fans. I still get behind the club every game. All I am saying is comparatively, Rafa would have done a better job than Kenny if he is still the manager.
If you recall, Torres cited being unable to wait as a key reason for defecting. He must have been briefed by Kenny and/or Comolli that they intended to undertake a rebuilding project that would take some time to bear fruit. This is precisely what we are witnessing that Torres was unwilling to be a part of; too bad it's his destiny and it was exactly the same thing he walked into at Chelsea.
ReplyDeleteJohn Henry et al had to set a target, but I'm sure they're realistic enough to readjust their expectations towards the end of the season. We are at least already guaranteed European football next season and have already won a title this one. The league cup may be no big deal, but it is a big deal that Kenny won it in his first full season back and with a considerably raw squad playing largely raw football.
It's funny how now all of a sudden it's become "we never were going to be top 4 this season". That's not what I remember everybody saying following Dalglish's run-in last year, or Arsenal's and Spurs start to this season!
ReplyDeleteFail to get Top 4 and Dalglish has failed overall - simple as.
Lucas injury not negative , i think this last 3 months been his best spell since he joined , 1 cup final win pos another cup final to come , coincidence him not involved or what ?
ReplyDeleteJK - net spend is a fools argument???? So if KK was told you have 10 million to spend this summer but if you clear dead wood (which would also free up wages) you can spend that as well. You're the only fool, you seem to spend all your time slagging the team 'you support'. How about getting behind the team even if they're not achieving the league position we're after. Please respond.
ReplyDeleteJK, made up your mind please.... all i read is your cricticsm towards kenny and that 115 million pound... but chelsea also spend more than 100 million in the same period like us and where are they? 5th and also in fa cup... so hv we performed? Yes we hv as 1 title proved it.. can we better yes but by being positive and not words like no i dont think kenny can do better.. remembr the words...YnWA.... So give support or building crictics not berated kenny like he some stooge...
ReplyDeleteLooking at the latter seasons just prior to Souness taking over, obviously. The likes of Speedie were a load of garbage.
ReplyDelete