Two days ago, Liverpool legend Mark Lawrenson claimed on BBC Radio 5 that the deal to bring Darren Bent to Anfield was 'done', and despite several strong denials from Aston Villa, the rumours about the prolific goalscorer just won't go away. Given the underwhelming impact of the club's high-priced British recruits, it's understandable that fans will be wary about even more money being spent on another expensive Brit, but as the following stats show, Bent has proved throughout his career that he is the real deal.
I personally would love to see Bent at Anfield. It's quite simple: Liverpool need goals; Bent guarantees goals, and has done for his entire top-flight career. That's all that matters.
KEY POINTS
* Scores of creates a goal every 1.8 games, which is the same ratio as Luis Suarez.
* Guarantees an average of 18 goals a season.
* Majority of goals from open play.
* This season, Bent has scored more goals than both Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez despite playing less games.
* Average conversion rate of 21%, which is much better than Suarez (7.2%) and Carroll (5.2%)
* In 2009-10, Bent scored 24 league goals for Sunderland. Imagine what he could do playing alongside superior quality players at Liverpool.
What else needs to be said? Bent scores and creates goals, and has done for his entire career.
If he's not good enough, I'd be interested to hear reasons why.
Jaimie Kanwar
I personally would love to see Bent at Anfield. It's quite simple: Liverpool need goals; Bent guarantees goals, and has done for his entire top-flight career. That's all that matters.
KEY POINTS
* Scores of creates a goal every 1.8 games, which is the same ratio as Luis Suarez.
* Guarantees an average of 18 goals a season.
* Majority of goals from open play.
* This season, Bent has scored more goals than both Andy Carroll and Luis Suarez despite playing less games.
* Average conversion rate of 21%, which is much better than Suarez (7.2%) and Carroll (5.2%)
* In 2009-10, Bent scored 24 league goals for Sunderland. Imagine what he could do playing alongside superior quality players at Liverpool.
What else needs to be said? Bent scores and creates goals, and has done for his entire career.
If he's not good enough, I'd be interested to hear reasons why.
Jaimie Kanwar
not happening.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if this really counts a PROOF, he didn't score those goals playing for Liverpool, you might as well give us Andy Carroll's scoring record while at Newcastle and say it PROVES he is good enough for LFC. However, I do wonder what today's 'fans' would have said to the signing of Aldo, I'm pretty sure they would have dismissed him as a donkey too.
ReplyDeletefook off you scouse scums!!! pay us 60mill then we would consider it as he is far better than lanky caroll and has scored more goals than suarez AND has scored more than Fernando slophead (torres) too. only drogba and rooney have scored more in the premier league in the last four or so years. so keep your hands off him or pay us what he is worth. more than torres, caroll and suarez!!!
ReplyDeleteGreat to see all the positives
ReplyDeleteto many negatives going around about this, and im sure players get put off hearing all the negatives about themselves so much that this can dis wade them joining LFC.
Hahaha keep dreaming you fool!
ReplyDeleteno dream, reality. worth more than all of those idiots
ReplyDeleteAgreed Jaimie, I would just simply ask the people who would object to him possibly joining what alternatives they propose in this transfer window. (Realistic players as well - too many fans assume top names would jump at the chance to join us when regretfully it is not the case anymore, hopefully this changes when we are back in Europe)
ReplyDeleteYou're dreaming lad, the fact he's playing at a team going nowhere fast in midtable, that alone will determine if the player moves. Question is " Does he wanna stay there, or move to a bigger club with ambition"...???
ReplyDeletebut Jamie, what about his stint at Tottenham? Not really the return we'd be looking for ..
ReplyDeleteyea ur gonna com above spurs,city,utd,chelsea not!!!! dream on liverfooll fans!!!
ReplyDeletejust pay villa 25mil haha they done u with downing!!!
ReplyDeleteThats fine lad-if you want him pay up to 40 million plus and the selling team will decide if he goes , not the player with 4 years left on his contract. doh!
ReplyDeleteDarren Bent is a goal scorer but just as important he his a forward running centre forward who likes to get ahead of the back four where as Suarez likes to run left to right Suarez isn't at his best when breaking forward he hasn't got the pace.
ReplyDeleteBent would also suit playing off Carroll or Adam having played with Campbell at Blackpool another forward who likes to break away and Henderson's game lets not forget they played together at Sunderland and of cause Downing who he played with at Villa.
There are more pluses to Bent's game then negatives he plays well for England do you think Cappelo would pick him if he wasn't a flexible with his game he has also represented England at every level since 15 if we were a bit quicker and didn't turn our noses up to at buying young British players in the past at a young age (Ipswich to Charlton £2.5m) we might not be getting stung now with transfer fees.
its not gonna happen liverplop so fuck off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteBigger club with ambition? I think you're the one who's dreaming.
ReplyDeleteLet's be honest, both Villa and Liverpool are clubs with their best days behind them. Man Utd, City, Chelsea will be the ones chasing for honours, Arsenal and Tottenham will be battling it out for the next couple of positions, and Liverpool, Everton, Villa, Newcastle and Stoke will be battling it out for the next few places, to be the best of the rest.
If we do sell Bent, there is no reason why we should sell him for less than £40 million - we paid £24 million, he's under contract, and he has improved considerably over the last 12 months. We would probably accept Andy Carroll as a straigth swap, but we certainly don't want Kuyt. And if £40 million is too much, keep quiet.
It seems remarkably like the Gareth Barry affair - Liverpool seem to have a track record of leaking details to the media to unsettle the player, and then stumble over the transfer fee.
You guys need to get realistic, it's not the 1970s any more. You finished just above us in the league last season, and just below us the season before. You will probably finish just above us this season, but the gap is not that big - certainly not as big as the gulf between yourselves and the likes of Man Utd, City or Chelsea.
Great logic! Let me tell you that nobody GUARANTEES a goal anywhere.
ReplyDeleteThe Bent-Spurs thing is a complete myth:
ReplyDelete* Played: 79
* Starts: 43
* Sub: 36
* Goals: 24
* Assists: 7
* 1 goal/assist ever 2.5 games
Bent spent almost 50% of his time on the bench at Spurs and still ended up as the club's top scorer in his first season there.
Carroll did well for 1 team. Bent has delivered for Charlton, Spurs, Sunderland and Aston Villa, all under different managers and you can't say their styles have been too similar. At Charlton, he was in a mediocre kick and chase team. At Spurs, he was at the best kick and chase team. At Sunderland, he was the lone striker for a team that liked parking the bus. At Villa, they were playing a quasi-continental game under Houllier and currently play a Hodgson-esque interpretation of Rafa's game under McLeish. The fact that his stats remained consistent throughout means that he will get you the goals regardless of your style.
ReplyDeleteSo by that logic Bent is NOT a top name? That makes him about right for LFC then?
ReplyDeletei think it's fairly accurate to say that Bent has guaranteed goals wherever he's been. With his history in mind, it's probable that he score regularly at Liverpool too.
ReplyDeleteA straight swop for Carroll? Now that would be good business....
ReplyDeleteThey "currently play a Hodgson-esque interpretation of Rafa's game under McLeish" - Great description :-)
ReplyDelete£40 million????You only paid £18million for him plus add ons to make it £24 million I do believe you haven't won anything not got into Europe so I don't think the add ons could have been triggered.
ReplyDeleteHow about we make £20 million!!!!!
I would take that in a heartbeat. It would be great business but still a financial loss for Liverpool.
ReplyDeleteSad but true.
ReplyDeleteI am reffering to names like Aguero and Higuian - you cannot deny we do not have that pulling power anymore as the Young / Jones transfers showed in the summer. When players like Cavani, Higuian, Hazard have options to go to other clubs with world class players who challenge the CL season in and out what is the incentive to play for LFC unless they are actually LFC fans?
ReplyDeleteCase in point - Torres - he had just seen us play two CL finals in the space of three years so the attraction to play for us was there, and when that started to dissapear so did he - untill we get back to CL then we are limited in players we can attract.
Bent is right for LFC as we have a striker problem, for one we have considerably less options than rivals and also the strikers we do have are contributing to the worst LFC team in front of goal in the premiership era (check the stats)
I would welcome Bent (not at an overinflated fee) , but would be glad to hear your suggestion of another signing we could make.
Downing guaranteed assists wherever he's been, including being amongst the Premier leagues top providers in his last coupla of seasons at Villa.
ReplyDeleteIt was probable he would do the same at Liverpool.
I wouldn't say any footballer guarantees goals! Look back to Robbie Keane, a player I am a big fan of, on paper he was the perfect addition to Liverpool but in reality it just didn't happen.
ReplyDeleteI think we have to look at the way bent scores his goals and the way the teams he plays for build up to the goals. I do believe bent would be a good addition but im not so sure we could get him for a reasonable price, im sure Villa have a buyout clause improved on what they payed for him
i see you forgot livepool win the europeon cup in 05? got to final again in 07 , the semi's in 08 and finshed 2nd in the prem in 09 .. we havent done to bad.
ReplyDeleteLAST 9 SEASONS:
ReplyDelete* GAMES: 311
* ASSISTS: 53
* 1 assist every 5.8 games
An average of 5 assists a season over the last 9 years is poor. Downing may get assists, but he doesn't guarantee assists *consistently* across a season.
In the last two complete seasons, Downing has only managed 13 assists in 78 games, which should've alerted Liverpool that he's doesn't consistently deliver the goods.
Bent averages 18 goals a season. That is the kind of return we should invest in.
Ah I see, thanks Jaimie. Although is a goal/assist every 2.5 games really worth 18+ Million ? Clearly, it's better than what we have in terms of consistency but I'd imagine the money could also be wisely spent on a younger striker with a wider scope to his game.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you - a goal/assist every 2.5 games is perhaps not worth 18m. however, Bent's career average a goal/assist every 1.8 games, which is excellent.
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about where things are now, not where they were in 2005.
ReplyDeleteWhen Villa were relegated in 1987, we didn't keep banging on about how we won the European Cup in 1982; we had to accept that times had moved on. Besides, the Champions League is hardly what it was, is it?Michael Roberts Not when you can qualify without winning anything.
In relation to superior players, well i'm not sure about the wing service as that has been dire at our club since for a decade or two. Would take the wing service he had at some of his clubs over ours that for sure.
ReplyDeleteHe does best with playing against a high line (in relation to receiving central creativity) as he plays on the shoulder and getting good wing play.
Big clubs usually come up against sides that play a deep line.Not sure he would do that well against sides who play a deep defensive line, especially without good wing service to make up for it. He is not like Suarez, Villa, etc, i.e., Suarez has a good all round game, so can drop deep link up if need be and can finish too (well looking at his time in Holland of course).Still a good player Bent and a very good scorer in the right system but is ours the right system to get the best out of him?Anyhoo, against Newcastle (before Stevie game on and City our build up play wasn't that great and we didn't create much, despite the possession we had. We had no Suarez, that was the key factor.
Downing has never been that great a player. He is a ok winger but he isn't anywhere the level a winger that a top four should have.
ReplyDeleteBent started out at Ipswich where he started in there youth system under George Burley who his a manager who likes to play football also at Charlton where they were a team that played football on the ground. Bent would suit a footballing team like Liverpool because that is what he grew up with in the start of his career but fans seem to forget that.I wouldn't say he his the perfect striker and can miss but he scores more then he misses!
ReplyDeleteYeah that is a good return. Is that G/A rate per game taking into account penalties? That would inflate the rate I guess.. although having said that - we need all the help we can get with penalties. I guess Bent was around Carroll's age at Spurs, and that sort of rate is pretty good for his age. If he can keep 1.8 G/A at LFC as a MINIMUM then I'd say that the 18m is justified. Just wondering though - do you have the G/A rate for Torres at LFC ? Would like to see in comparison to Bent.
ReplyDeleteliverpool are getting worse than man city over the disrespect they show towards other teams. And that disgusting show of support by the players for a racist was beyong the pale and Dalglish arguing every decision. Pathetic for such an important club.
ReplyDeleteI repeat, he is a poor man's Fernando Torres.
ReplyDeleteTORRES
ReplyDelete* Played: 142
* Goals: 81
* 14 assists
* 1.5 G/A per game
That compares very favourably with Bent, and Torres had the likes of Gerrard and Alonso playing behind him.
downing also was supposed to be doing really well in past few seasons, bought him to supply the big andy carroll with his supposed quality cross, but havnt seen anything from it till now. bent also is just that type of player, 'big fish' in small water, and will never make it in a big team. he is just ok, the kind of vassel or kevin philips. liverpool need world class players.. thats the poorest squad we've had.. there was time when players like nick berger, ziege, litmanen murphy and smicer on the bench.. this is the the type of players that should play for liverpool, not bent.. couldnt even make it at spurs and now for liverpool? wot a joke! nyway he will be 28 soon and 24m is too much
ReplyDeleteThey did the same with Ashley Young to you lot too, cuz both are wasters.
ReplyDeleteSure does.
ReplyDeleteWell, if Bent can assist/score at a rate of 1.8 (minimum, probably higher given the new quality of surrounding players), then I guess I'd be happy with 18 million. Not that much higher though, given his age... but I just don't see him coming that cheap unless someone like Dirk Kuyt went the other way.
How did he 'not make it' at Spurs? He was their top scorer despite spending almost 50% of his time on the bench.
ReplyDeleteDid you win the European Cup in 1982?
ReplyDeleteDo you have to keep going on about it;)
I was thinking that as well but looking at Torres now you could look at it the other way now a days!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTalk some sense! Bent can put the ball in the net, that's about it. He can't run through a whole defence like Suarez. He'd be a good buy though for around 18m.
ReplyDeleteWhy do fans go on about a player being 27/28 he has a full contract of 4 or 5 years ahead of him like any other player at that age he his in his prime I find it a strange argument that fans now a days are looking to sell a player before he has even played and if he was any good why would you sell him.
ReplyDeleteThere is talk of Kuyt going (31) for what we brought him for!
i agree with you jamie, i have been saying since the rumours surfaced that bent would be good for liverpool.
ReplyDeleteI dnt agree with u, Jaimie. Bent is good but not that great to become LFC's saviour. He's more like Carroll. Bent and Carroll excel when they play more individually, none of them suit the pass and play Liverpool's way. We need a player like Van Persie. This type of player suit our play, team-play. 1 more thing, Bent has struggled at high level footbal, Spurs and england. Bent has been great for charlton, and sunderland. He struggled at spurs, england and villa. Last year, bent played a couple of games for england. Go watch highlights of those games, Bent missed sitters where he got empty nets. Hence I have doubt Bent can handle pressure at liverpool. 1 more thing, jaimie, you've compared suarez's and carroll's stats with Bent. To be frank, our top goalscorer suarez has only 5 goals, there are many teams like blackburn who have goalscorer with twice as much as suarez, 10-12 goals. Suarez has played really well for us but his goalscoring form is quite poor, to be frank. If you compare EPL's forwards' stats with our suarez and carroll, many mickey-mouses will have better stats than our forwards. SO it is useless to do what you did with stats comparison!!
ReplyDeleteMy verdict : Save our 27m, don't waste on Bent. Better get a world class striker. If i were Dalglish i would try to temp Van Persie with 50m or so. he guarantees goals and assists. If not, i would use scouts to find some1 more classy than Bent. There are too many gambles on signing Bent, it's not right time for gambles. We need instant impact.
I would be really disappointed if Liverpool signed Bent, though he has decent goal scoring record but he is still an average player and his price tag won't be justified and i don't see Liverpool competing for anything with signings like Bent. Bent can be good short term solution but spending big on a player who can't stay at a club for long is stupid.
ReplyDeleteHe'll get you goals regardless but how many? He has never really been tested at the highest level, admittedly his England career has began to take off a bit now and he hasn't had the stresses of a big side.
ReplyDeleteI think he is the top level of striker that exists below the elite. Scoring a lot of goals isn't the be all and end all. Look at someone like Dario Hubner- top scorer in Serie A but never got near the national team or any of the top teams. His skill set wasn't wide enough.
More importantly, Bent has never played against a team who believe they are playing against a big team, if you understand me. As Barnes said (and it is bloody miraculous that one of our ex players has said something worth citing) Bent's game thrives when he can run into space behind the defence. Teams tend not to leave that against us. With the way teams play against us we need a goalscorer with better technique.
Also, this was true earlier in the season, pretty recently, but Bent has the lowest touch per games ratio in the league. When even Villa fans are questioning his performances (as they have recently) you have to think if he is up to it.
I'm not denying he is a good player- he is, I noted that 'Arry was making a big mistake when he sold him at Spurs BUT Bent would be another case of us buying a good player for an elite player's price. The scouts have to work harder. You'd be better off taking two decent, educated punts on players who can score a similar amount of goals in the short term whilst we identify a long term target.
Van Persie????? Arsenal's Van Persie???? what Robin van Persie are you sure?ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZDREAMER!
ReplyDeleteIsn't playing in the Premier League a high level????
ReplyDeleteOh yes, the big team, currently lying sixth in the Premier League, finished sixth last season, and seventh (one place below Villa) the season before.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not ( and I certainly don't like it), but Man Utd, City and Chelsea are the big teams these days, with Arsenal and Tottenham making up the second tier.
I'm afraid that you guys, like us, are the teams that will vye with the likes of Everton, Newcastle and Stoke to be the 'best of the rest'. You may finish a place or two ahead of us this time, but the gap isn't that big - certainly nothing like the gap between yourselves and the likes of Man Utd, City and Chelsea.
I guess we agree on one thing, and that is Bent should stay where he is; you think £24 million is too much, whereas we think it is nowhere near enough, and I suspect Mr Lerner would never be allowed to set foot at Villa Park again if he sold him for that amount.
What I don't like is the arrogance that Liverpool are some sort of giants who we should all defer to just because you won a few titles in the 70s and 80s. You may beat us to the Uefa Cup spot this season, but your 'water' is not much bigger than ours.
First season at spurs, Bent got 6 goals in 28 games, 11 starts plus 17 subs? i wonder free transfer veteran bellamy is doing better than him, this season.
ReplyDeleteToo true. And can't you just see Bent forming an attacking partnership with Suarez...
ReplyDeleteMy point is that neither the 1982 nor 2005 European Cup wins are relevant. Neither clubs are giants on recent form.
ReplyDeleteJamie why are you on such a crusade to have LFC sign Bent? You have been going on ad nauseum about what a beauty he is, there are many other players out there that are far better than he is and with age on their side. why spend 20 or 30 mill on a player whose value will soon fall due to age. I say No More local buys for the rest of the season! Go back to South America and shop around. Also watch the African Cup of Nations in a few weeks time and see if there are any players we can attract for the future.
ReplyDeleteHe's a decent stiriker but as never played for a big club and whoever we sign as a striker will be expected to make an instant impact, especially with figures being mentioned of around 20-25m!! Big risk, i would spend that money on torres or someone who will put fear into defenders. We have to stop going for average players at silly prices who cannot make the grade...we need great and not good players!!
ReplyDeleteBent Career so far
ReplyDelete404 games
173 goals
0.43 goal per game
Note: include 139 games and 56 goals in championship (almost 1/3 of his career)
For england, 12 games, 4 goals 0 assists.
For spurs, 24 goals in 2 seasons. 12 goals/per season. Kuyt playing at Right winger get 10-13 goals a season. Gerrard the same playing as attacking mid!! lol
Not convincing me for such a price tag. Didn't prove at high level, spurs and england. He did prove at sunderland 24 goals in an off-season then next season 8 goals in 20 games for sunderland. It's too risky. He may end as a 12 goals per season at liverpool. not worth that price!!!
Why would we want Dirk Kuyt? How many did he score last season?
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell are u doing on the liverpool forum anyaway?? You sad b******, get a life!!!
ReplyDeleteWell said, dude!! Last season, Bent got 17 premier league goals in 36 games. Carroll got 13 goals in 26 games. Have included 7 games and 2 goals for liverpool. If i exclude that poor liverpool form, Carroll get 11 goals from 19 games. So logically, if Carroll had played 36 games (like bent) for newcastle, i bet he would have scored far better than 17 goals of bent. LOL. You're 100% right, Gareth Owen. This PROOF is a SPOOF.
ReplyDeleteWho cares about future value? Football used to be about buying players who would provide a positive contribution to the team; buying players just to increase their value for a future sale is the wrong way to proceed IMO; selling teams use that template. Are Liverpool a selling team now?
ReplyDeleteAll that interests me when it comes to players is their ability to provide a specific, measurable contribution to the team. Bent's career proves that he has the capability to do that, which is not the case with Downing, Bent or Henderson.
Liverpool bought the wrong players over the last year, it's that simple. I'm not against a policy of buying British, but you have to buy the RIGHT British players, and Liverpool failed to do that (IMO).
Last season, Bent 17 goals in 26 games. Carroll 13 goals in 26 games. Carroll 23 yrs, bent 27 yrs. Swap? Thank God, Your name isn't Kenny Dalglish!!
ReplyDeleteSLip of keyboard!! Bent 17 goals in 36 games
ReplyDeleteA high level- not the HIGHEST level. That is what we aspire to at this club, even if we're not up to it right now.
ReplyDeleteLads, lads, lads we shouldn't be looking at this chump.
ReplyDeleteTwo words:
Sandra. Redknapp.
Sign her up Kenny!
Another one of the big club merchants. Well I would suggest that if the last seasons are anything to go by, Spurs are a bigger club than Liverpool
ReplyDeleteI know, that's why we need to get who we can if the top names aren't going to come because we are not in Europe we have get the next best thing and a player who can score goals in the Premier League is what we need to fire us back into Europe so we can attract top names again.
ReplyDeleteWe are stuck in that Vicious circle of getting back into the Champions League.
lol keep ur bent man. this is the difference between you and us.. we dont want bent, but you want him! im an arabian working in mauritius right now, and been living in many countries down the years, and let me tell you most people dont even know about aston villa, and never will. you dont have a big history and never will. how the hell u comparing villa to liverpool. funny guy
ReplyDeleteand they spent was it £20mill on a shi#t goaly????
ReplyDeleteyeah wat ever poo, wipe ye mouth your dribbling sh#t
ReplyDeletespurs were still average when bent was there.not for me.
ReplyDeletehes headless and one dimentional. we may as well go for zamora, wats the difference?? he scores goals where ever he goes. or andy johnson etc etc
give me a brake. we should be signing better or not bother at all.
id rather see crouch back
Gary, Larry, Barry, Terry or Harry?
ReplyDeleteWe already have too much mediocre Brit talent at the club...piling more on just makes us more average..and will us take us further down the table...
ReplyDeleteI think Bent should've been bought ahead of Andy Carroll and wouldve been a safer bet to get us into Champions League. If we don't take him now, we will have be happy to continue to build for the future. Issue is whether he will come to liverpool as come next season, we might spend another 100 mil and he'll be 2nd fiddle.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for that but it wouldn't make sense to pay a premium price for a player that doesn't befit one.
ReplyDeleteFinding a Hernandez or a Ba is hard but it is possible.
Bent isn't the answer, not at £20mil+ anyhoo.
Flat track Bully. Period.
ReplyDeleteLMFAO, still finish above villa EVERY Year
ReplyDeleteThis time I disagree with u JK...
ReplyDeleteThought nowadays LFC uses stats to assist in signing players, why would they sign downing with only 1 assist in every 6 games is unbelievable!
ReplyDeleteI ♥ Mr Kanwar figures! Kenny said yesterday about Bellamy "- I do not know what he eats, but I want it too," I think that Mr Kanwar it is the same as Bellamy! Great job! greetings from lfcpoland.com
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing. Is Bent going to cost Liverpool FC or anyone that would decide to buy him an inflated £20m+? Yes. Could LFC buy a better or just as good striker from Europe or beyond for the same or less? Yes.
ReplyDeleteAguero = £32m V Carroll =£35m
ReplyDeleteBent = £24m V (for example a player such as) Huntelaar €12 million
ok I know someone like Huntelaar hasn't got PL experience, but the point is inflated prices for UK talent doesn't always make the best sense. I think Bent is a good striker, and we need a good striker, but for what Bent will cost we could get 2 Huntelaars or 3 Hernandez or 2 Demba Ba's, etc etc.
That said if he does arrive at LFC I think he would do well he has pace and is just a striker out and out which is what we need.