7 Dec 2011

LFC LEGEND: "His body language was diabolical, so I'm not sure..."

John Barnes recently argued that Liverpool fans should 'move on' and stop wasting 'negative energy' on Fernando Torres, but despite the acrimony towards the Spaniard, there are still lots of fans - myself included - who would love to see El Nino back at Anfield. LFC Legends Ray Houghton and Gary Gillespie are not so sure though.

In a recent poll on this site, over 70% of fans voted for a Torres return, but speaking to LFC TV, Gillespie and Houghton revealed mixed thoughts on the idea.

Gillespie, who made 214 appearances for Liverpool argued:

"His body language at the end of his Liverpool career was diabolical, so I'm not 100% sure he's in love with football at this moment in time. Would you have him back? Personally, I wouldn't but I'm sure for some it would be a mouth-watering prospect.

"It's all about how Torres would fit into the team. Would he fit in, not just with Suarez, but with Andy Carroll, Adam, Lucas, Downing - I'm not sure he can do that to be honest.

"I think he's found it very difficult at Chelsea, purely because he's an out and out individual. If you play Torres often enough, he will score you goals, but is he a player who will win you premier league titles? I'm not so sure".


I have a lot of respect for Gillespie's views but on this occasion, I have to disagree with his contention that Torres is not a player who will win you titles.

Of course he is! Torres did his job at Liverpool: he scored a shedload of goals; it's not his fault the rest of the team (collectively) was not up to scratch.

And on form, Torres is ten levels above the likes Andy Carroll and Stewart Downing, and a Torres-Suarez partnership would be the stuff dreams are made of.

Ray Houghton agreed that Torres was too much of an 'individual', and questioned whether he could actually play effectively with Suarez:

"Would he get into the team? Would he be a regular in the side? Could he link up with Suarez? When you're looking at who to bring in, Suarez is going to be your number one thought. You need to get someone who can complement him.

"I'm not sure that's Torres' way; he's very much an individual up there on his own, who maybe likes someone like Steven Gerrard a little bit deeper. I think he probably realises that going to Chelsea was not the dream move he thought it might be".


It's the ultimate cliche but I think it applies here: form is temporary, class is permanent. For whatever reason, Torres' form is in the toilet right now, and has been for a while, but he is undoubtedly a class player, and he's proved it time and time again.

Torres is only 27! At some stage, he will come good again, and when he does, Chelsea - or some other team - will have a goal machine on their hands.

Given the money involved, a Torres return doesn't seem possible, but I personally would love it.

Rush returned; Fowler returned; Bellamy returned - let's make it four with a Torres return.

Jaimie Kanwar


46 comments:

  1. "he will score you goals, but is he a player who will win you premier league titles?"

    I fail to capture even the slightest bit of logic in this statement.

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  2. For the right money yes I would take him back - 17 goals so far for the whole team - 3 more than Van Persie football club - embarrasing. Fans will say well what has he done in 2011 but just go and watch the goals he scored in the past and realise he has it in his locker

    We need a striker, we cannot attract Higuain, Villa, or a Cavani - all I hear about Andy Carroll is he is signed for the future, I hate that argument because it then shows the inconsideration Comolli and KD took in prioritising the immediate need to return to CL football but if we have to wait for Carroll to get better in 2 years time then we need someone who can do the job now. If Torres came back and found that old form again it would be amazing but I cant see it happening under KD.

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  3. "It's all about
    how Torres would fit into the team. Would he fit in, not just with
    Suarez, but with Andy Carroll, Adam, Lucas, Downing - I'm not sure he
    can do that to be honest." Gillespie

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  4. The prosecution against Gillespie rests, your Honour.

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  5. I would not have him back - it would make no sense at all. Although Carroll looks like he will never fit in here and it does look like we will need to buy a striker, I would not spend the money it would take to get Torres back. What would it be? £15m? £20m? £25m? I would rather spend that on the "next" Torres. For all of the talk like "just imagine Torres on form alongside Suarez"... well I cannot imagine Torres on form - with his age and the fact that he has lost a yard and a half of pace I sincerely doubt he will ever get back to anything like his past form.

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  6. I actually agree with that logic. I also witnessed Torres being a world class player at Liverpool.
    To help him be world class you have to set your team up around him. Allow him space, dont congest his runs, more counter attack.
    Its great when he is scoring however if he has unlucky games, injuries etc the team struggles to adapt and change to being a team game especially in the final 3rd of the pitch.
    Although Torres will/should always get goals, he will get less goals for dominant teams who have lots of posession of the ball ( hence he never looks as good with Spain )
    Ideally his team needs to break quickly and allow him the space to punish defenders.

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  7. JK as you know I do get involved in the debates on your site. I am not a young man I have supported the club all my life. I have not heard any Liverpool Fan say they would like Torres back I dont know where you get "me and many othe Liverpool Supporters from". i have heard a lot saying we wasted 35m of it and we should have signed this player or that player, but that is a different argument and an argument that will only be settled with time.

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  8. torres back? i dont think that is impossible.. when daglish took over; he bagged in 3 goals in 2 matches now imagine how it our attack will look with him and suarez...

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  9. I would not take him back just because he would be a financial burden upon the club. He is on 175k pw at Chelsea and is 27, a know he is going to get injured again sooner or later so I'm not to sure. Also the fee would be gigantic and he has a long contract with Chelski.

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  10. Talking about a player with such high esteem who stabbed us in the back and then asked for the knife back. Laughable some of the articles on this site. No wonder so many "real" liverpool fans think your a complete bell end!

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  11. I think that Carroll and Torres have found themselves, for what ever reason, at the wrong club at the wrong time. It is not working for Liverpool and Carroll, and it's not working for Torres and Chelsea. How about in January the two clubs get together and exchange players. I do beleive that Torres now sees he made a huge mistake, ok we all make mistakes. Carroll would fit better into Chelsea's set up, replacing Drogba. Go for it, I would love to see Gerrard, Suarez and Torres playing together, as it was meant to be.

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  12. He would take a pay cut the same thing he did when he 1st arrived... especially now, it will be his life line to prove he can do it again, because I think Gillespie is right, he seems to have fallen out of love with football all together...

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  13. I am no football expert, but i do think he could easily work with the current squad, he worked well with alonso, gerrard, so why not with charlie and hendo or even downing, they will allow him to add to his game...they are fast and so far our goals have come from counter attacking most of the time... I also think he can finish at least some of the chances we create because thats what he does best! And maybe just maybe, Liverpool and Kenny will bring his passion for the game back...(otherwise athleti) he is a romantic and he needs to love his game to play well... all this there is no romance in football is something he is trying to convince himself with... As for if i want him back, i do because of the fact that we really know what he can do! however, i also agree that we could bring someone younger to be the new Torres, but it will take a good scouting network and someone who wants to join our club for it to happen, because so far, if we dont have CL it will be hard to get someone good to play for us...

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  14. another thing, its a team sport, so no Torres alone will not win us the EPL, as we have seen in 2009 but not a single player can do that, otherwise Gerrard would have already done it! SO alone no, no one can, but WITH A TEAM LIKE THE ONE KENNY ASSEMBLED YES! without a shadow of a doubt!

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  15. Kenny atm is overrated (Full stop)

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  16. here is a fact for you. torres has got worse each season in the prem . he is not world class he came into the prem as an unknown and took advantage of the fact that defenders had not worked him out. he worked well with gerrard but gerrard has barely kicked a ball lately so we can take him out of the equation. adam is not a gerrard he can not pick strikers runs like gerrard so torres would not fit into the system. yes we bought suarez to partner torres but the team has now been built to suit him and not torres we would literally have to rip the team apart and start again just to suit a player fast approaching 28 yrs old. 

    When we had torres at his best we had the best mid on the planet behind him. where we had gerrard we have hendo where we had alonso we now have adam only the dm is a match masch at that time was the best dm and now lucas is the best dm. i can not see adam and hendo bringing torres back to his best

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  17. Said by you in an interview with The Republic Of Mancunia (yes a fcuckin man ure website).
     
    The last line says it best, especially in relation to this article!
     
    RoM: Steven Gerrard kissed his badge after he scored the penalty. How does it make you feel when you see him do that?JK: If I felt it was genuine and heartfelt, then I would feel good about it, but considering he’s spent the best part of his Liverpool career selfishly pointing to the name on the back of his shirt when he scores, I’ll take his sincerity with a pinch of salt.Perhaps I’m being a little harsh – I suppose the fact that Gerrard has stayed with Liverpool for another four years after the dual Chelsea debacle of 2004/2005 counts for something. His stunning lack of loyalty during those two Chelsea approaches has changed my view of him forever, hence my cynicism above. I mean, here was a 23 year old Liverpudlian, blessed with the ultimate privilege of captaining his hometown club, something millions of fans could only dream of achieving. All we heard from Gerrard was how much he loved the club and blah blah blah. Yet as soon as Chelsea flashed some cash, his head was turned, not once but TWICE. Once is understandable, if not condonable; twice is unforgivable, and makes a mockery of his apparent love for the club. Bottom line: Someone who genuinely loves the club, does not try and leave twice.
     
    So basically Gerrard "nearly" leaving for chelski has made you change your opinion of him but the rat actually going to chelski is ok and you would have him back any day of the week?
     
    Stick + That + Pipe + Smoke It
     See how long this comment stays on here before it's deleted!
    See how long this comment stays on here before it's deleted!
     

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  18. Couldnt agree more.

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  19. No to having him back. Think he's lost the half of yard of pace that regularly took him past the last defender. His touch has been awful and confidence just seems to continue to seep away indefinitely.

    I truly feel sorry for him.  Looked like he was returning to some semblance of form and then that horrible miss against Man Utd set him back again.Should be looking at getting a young striker. How I would have loved it if we could have convinced Chelsea to part with Sturridge for Meireles.

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  20. Said by you in an interview with The Republic Of Mancunia (yes a fcuckin man ure website).
     
    The last line says it best, especially in relation to this article!
     
    RoM: Steven Gerrard kissed his badge after he scored the penalty. How does it make you feel when you see him do that?JK: If I felt it was genuine and heartfelt, then I would feel good about it, but considering he’s spent the best part of his Liverpool career selfishly pointing to the name on the back of his shirt when he scores, I’ll take his sincerity with a pinch of salt.Perhaps I’m being a little harsh – I suppose the fact that Gerrard has stayed with Liverpool for another four years after the dual Chelsea debacle of 2004/2005 counts for something. His stunning lack of loyalty during those two Chelsea approaches has changed my view of him forever, hence my cynicism above. I mean, here was a 23 year old Liverpudlian, blessed with the ultimate privilege of captaining his hometown club, something millions of fans could only dream of achieving. All we heard from Gerrard was how much he loved the club and blah blah blah. Yet as soon as Chelsea flashed some cash, his head was turned, not once but TWICE. Once is understandable, if not condonable; twice is unforgivable, and makes a mockery of his apparent love for the club. Bottom line: Someone who genuinely loves the club, does not try and leave twice.
     
    So basically Gerrard "nearly" leaving for chelski has made you change your opinion of him but the rat actually going to chelski is ok and you would have him back any day of the week?
     
    Stick + That + Pipe + Smoke It
     See how long this comment stays on here before it's deleted!
    See how long this comment stays on here before it's deleted!
     

    ReplyDelete
  21. http://therepublikofmancunia.com/reaction-from-the-enemy/

    Here you question gerrards loyalty but are happy to take someone like him back? Your an embarrassment lad!!

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  22. Give it a try guys, I hnow eaxctly how you feel. It's a better option than bringing someone new or experimenting with others.

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  23. How come you wont allow my comments to be shown eh?

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  24. Ok, how come you wont print my comment that i posted before..twice?

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  25. Ya know the comment which gives details of how you question gerrards loyalty and love for the club when he nearly left for chelski twice?

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  26. So you want to bring back a player who put in a transfer request at the last minute of the window, leaving us forced to panic buy at an over inflated price. A guy who hasn't been in form since long before he left, over 2 seasons now. Someone who talks bad about his former club to the press, and who doesn't regard Liverpool as a big club. 

    I rather see Owen come back.

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  27. Better than the donkey we have

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  28. Load of shite... Rather have Owen? No chance I'd take Torres with one leg before I let Owen back into the lfc team

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  29. Torres would fit perfectly with Suarez! What made Torres the best was that he had Gerrard next to him. When he "lost his form", Gerrard was injured. No coincidence there. Torres is a clever footballer and needs an intelligent partner to get the best out of him. Suarez is a genius on the pitch. Torres, Gerrard and Suarez, all fit and firing - no team in the world could stop us scoring goals! I'd have him back in a heartbeat! Maybe if we don't qualify for CL this season, the new bosses will have a hard look at Kenny and maybe, to the obvious pleasure of Jamie, Rafa will get a look in?? Mouthwatering stuff!

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  30. I believe we should treat him like Ian Rush who came back from Juvventus after an unsuccessul season in Turin.

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  31. agreed. nando over carroll or downing ANY day.

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  32. I don't really capture a relation between your comment and that one. That quote said scoring lots of goals and winning a title for team are two different things, and yours was about team being built around an individual etc.

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  33. Question is will he want to come back?!

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  34. Simple really, Chelsea want shut, none of the big clubs in europe are interested.  Take him back in Jan on a season long lone with the option to buy him back for £20 million.  If he works out and gets back to his best, then great, if not send him to Chelsea

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  35. I believe Torres wants to be back at Liverpool and possibly never wanted to leave, but he had to go. He was probably told to submit the transfer request - we wanted Roman's money. I do not foresee the club taking him back. Drama1 hit the nail on the head, pointing out how Torres would thrive. Torres will fail for us the same way he is failing for Chelsea.

    Why was Torres so good before? He was exactly the striker we needed when our team was built around Steven Gerrard. Rafa's Liverpool was designed to maximise Gerrard's style of play, allowing him to puncture defenses with a through pass or his running and deliver a heavy final pass into space. Rafa realised that like Suarez, Bellamy had the tendency to bring the ball up himself and wouldn't be able to score if he did. Unfortunately for Kuyt, whose reading of such passes is brilliant, he lacked the pace to finish off Gerrard's passes. Enter Torres. Torres, and Babel, brought in as his backup, were signed based on the understanding they had the pace and shots to latch onto Gerrard's dangerballs and convert them into goals before our opponents could react properly.

    In AVB's attacking game, and certainly in Kenny's pass and move game, the idea is to press in the opponent's third of the pitch. Where that is the case, the ability to create space where there is none or to move in tight spaces is of utmost importance. You will find that in such instances, Torres will fail to score because defenders will nick the ball from his feet. Carroll is a little similar to Torres in that he too thrives on the final pass, however, unlike Torres, Carroll depends not on speed but power and strength to bully the ball into goal, and you can't exactly pick the ball off his feet. It is normally down to sharp reflexes on the goal line to deny Carroll, so he is in fact an upgrade on Torres should Stevie feature regularly for us again.

    So far, the biggest waste of money we've acquired under Dalglish has to be Stewart Downing. The guy tries too hard and that is preventing his true ability to shine through. It is not too big an issue if you're as young as Henderson and Carroll who have 3-7 years to hit peak form. Downing is supposed to be in his peak right now. He should have hit the ground running. Carroll is a proper, traditional striker who is there to put the 'mate' after the 'check' provided by an attacking mid/in the hole player. What's holding Carroll back is he doesn't know where to be and where to go. He cannot lead the line, but I believe he will be as effective as Torres if played in on goal - like how Aquilani did against Valencia in the pre-season friendly, or how Barton and Nolan regularly did for him last season.

    Indeed, Torres seemed to ooze class when he first signed for us, and he attributed alot of it to Rafa, but it was an illusion set up by Rafa. Torres' natural ability was the perfect crowning touch to the plays of Stevie. Chelsea have no Stevie, despite coming close in '05. Those of you who think he will be that good for us again must ask yourselves if he can do it without Gerrard. From the way our defenders easily dealt with him, I think the answer is very clear.

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  36. P.S. The team to help Torres rediscover his touch right now is probably Spurs.

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  37. The point is that although he will get you goals it wont bring you a title. Titles require great consistency. I said that its great while he is scoring however if he is unlucky, injuries etc" its hard for the team to adapt and introduce a style of play that creates more chances for others.
    Id much prefer Torres to change his style to fit in with a team, but can he do it? Not so far at Chelsea.
    Chelsea could play differently to provide Torres more chances, room on the park but do you want to rely on him to do it week in week out

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  38. no doubt Torres joined Liverpool and was class ( end of )

    Knee injury seemed to deny him a yard of burst acceleration. From then he found much more difficult to run at a defender, slow him down and then burst again past him. ( like goal against Chelsea BenHaim)
    So many of his runs involved his burst and stength, these allowed him to create his own chances.

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  39. Each player needs his team to play in certain way for him to be effective, and regarding his poor form for Chelsea, one can't definitely say it's down to the system and not his psychological issues.

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  40. Why spurs? and question, why cant Suarez be the Gerrard Torres needs, creating the chances for him to finish? Carroll cant read the game and set up very well at the moment (although to me he was better in the last game), don't you think Torres is better equipped plus he is a better finisher (better than Kuyt although he too reads them good, just not to quick and clinical enough)...

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  41. I dont think he wanted to stay, I think he wanted to go and his mind was set, and when Kenny came he thought buying suarez would convince him to stay, but it was not so... He wanted to leave for chelsea, but what the club did they told him that if he wants to leave then he will need to hand in a transfer request so that the fans will not turn against the club... But he wanted to leave and the money we were getting for him was not to shabby...  He also was playing poorly with no motivation... so they were definitely tempted to cash in on him!Forcing him to hand in a transfer request made it easy for the club to sell him... otherwise fans would have been furious... this is how I think it happened...

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  42. The answer to both your questions is the way the ball is played in the opponent's third. Modric loves to ping heavy/zippy passes behind defenders, so does Van der Vaart. They do this many times every match and are also likely to do so at the first given opportunity, which means not too close to the opponent's goal. This is exactly the kind of service Torres needs to play his own game. The proverbial kick and chase - which incidentally would benefit Carroll just as much. Suarez will almost never give you a ball to chase, he will put the ball at your feet. If Torres isn't running with the ball and it is played to his feet, he gets robbed, we've seen that time and again with Chelsea and even at his goalscoring best when he was with us. For all his goals he scored for us, this glaring weakness in his game never escaped me. How many of Torres goals were simple finishes created by someone else? They were either spectacular or simple tap ins after he has beaten an entire backline + goalkeeper for pace and the latter accounted for at least half of his goals.

    As for Carroll, he should forget about setting up his team mates. Yes, that's what all our other strikers do exceptionally well, but we have agreed his reading of the game and movement are piss poor at the moment. He really ought to just focus on what he does best - wait for the ball and try to score. He came very close for us on many such occasions, not least against Joe Hart who made the save of the season. Indeed he is improving a little every game, but it's clear he is no finesse player like almost everyone else on the squad except Gerrard, Adam, Skrtel and Carragher. I think Carroll is better equipped and a more natural finisher, but he needs to understand his role and understand how his team mates play alot better. This can only come with time and games. Carroll is not very bright. However, if he is a little more selfish, like Paisley told Rush to be, we will indeed see a 35m striker.

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  43. Why do so many people want Torres Back? Stevie G is the wrong side of 30, Alonso is not here anymore and Torres himself has lost at least a yard of pace,all these factors work against him, Not to mention the fact that He handed in a transfer request on deadline day, had a go at Liverpool to the press, Said How he was going to a "Big Club",moved after signing a new contract,went to one of our biggest rivals etc etc. He was 23 When we signed him, he is now approaching 28, And he is not the same player he was. 

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  44. its just a debate... plus I guess many of us are romantics deep down?!

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  45. Thanks for your reply... but i still have a question, if he lost this yard of pace we all seem to talk about, then isnt it best for someone to create the chance and him to just take it? he can modify his play... he does not really have that at chelsea plus he really looks disinterested in most of his games (especially that he comes in as a sub) also we never had someone to create those chances for him so close to goal before during benitez era, he only had gerrard for support?! I do agree that he is not good with the ball at his feet, he just cant keep it... but we never had someone to create them for him so close to goal either.. but thansk for your previous reply...

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  46. Do I want Torres back ?
    YES!
    Torres was lost in he`s own thinking, Kenny is not like Roy. The new owners ARE good.
    LFC is a serious clup now, we want to win, everyone!!

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