16 May 2010

Clarification: Liverpool FC club accounts and the 'American' term 'Social Security' (Just For Fun)

I've been rumbled! Step aside Sherlock Holmes! Retreat back into the shadows, Lieutenant Columbo! As I will illustrate, your deductive skills are no match for the staggering powers of deduction displayed by the greatest investigators of all: deluded, brainwashed Liverpool fans (DBLF).

The latest breakthrough by the DBLF - who take great pleasure in constantly denigrating me and this site - is that I am actually American, and in league with Hicks and Gillett. The latest reasoning behind this contention? My use of the term 'Social Security' in an article yesterday, wherein I stated:

The extent of the club’s debt liability to H+G is £100.8m. The other £126m of debt on the club has nothing directly to do with H+G:

Bank Loans and Overdrafts = 36.5m
Trade creditors = £35.5m
Tax + Social Security = £13.8m
Other creditors = £10.8m
Deferred income = £28.2m


RetroRed, the lead investigator for the RAOTL branch of the DBLF, outlined his powerfully persuasive reasoning:

"I have never seen NI referred to as Social Security in this country, only on American accounting software. Social Security has a completely different meaning to National Insurance in this country. Nobody gets an HMRC demand for "social security contributions", nobody ever says they've paid "tax and social security" out of their wages. He's deffo some sort of stooge".

He was backed up by another of the DBLF's top investigators, BHB, also of RAOTL, (and author of the now-discredited post 'State of LFC: An Idiot's Guide), who added:

"Social Security - hook, line and sinker! Brilliant. Got you by the bollocks there Jaimie".

The LFC.tv branch of the DBLF carried out an extensive separate investigation, and their lead investigator, Spee-d, confirmed RAOTL's findings:

"His use of 'social security' in his latest article instead of national insurance suggests he is in fact a Yank. Ahaha he even goes on to say 'lets get one thing clear, I have no connection to H+G'. Who is he trying to kid?

Similar conclusions were reached by several other branches of the DBLF.

Well - who can argue with such stunning insights? When faced with such breathtaking deductive reasoning and overwhelmingly conclusive evidence, what else can I do other than just admit the truth? Bravo! I've been rumbled.

Actually, I haven't.

Social security?! The fact I used this term *must* mean I'm an American and on H+G's payroll, right?

Wrong.

A rudimentary check of the club accounts reveals the following on page 23:


What? It can't be! The term 'Social Security' used in a UK financial report?!

I don't know how I did it, but I've managed to triumph over the fabled intelligence and legendary investigative skills of the DBLF.

No one from the DBLF was able to string two coherent sentences together in order to comment.

NB. The DBLF = A comparatively small section of Liverpool fans. The majority of LFC fans who are not part of that rarefied group are, I'm sure, perfectly reasonable and intelligent.

EDIT: 17 May - Another example of the moronic DBLF: - I have never at any point posted on the LFC.tv message boards. But according the brain trust over there, anyone who ever had a controversial opinion on their forums was apparently me in disguise. Utter morons.

Jaimie Kanwar



41 comments:

  1. Wow an entire article abusing and ridiculing people who do not agree with you what a surprise.  I would suggest Jamie that your time could be better spent in doing somthing that would benefit the club but I seriously doubt that is anywhere near your agenda.

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  2. Ssssssshhhhhhhhhhh!

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  3. 'deluded, brainwashed Liverpool fans (DBLF)'.....that's how I'd describe LFC 'fans' who actually rate your work and take you seriously.

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  4. The messiah has spoken and no one must question him!!

    Another article abusing people and deleting any comments that call you on it.  DBLF are what you would call your followers because you delete/ridicule /ignore anyone who questions you. 

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  5. kanwar stop you`re lies.7:29 pm, May 16, 2010

    kanwar stop you`re lies

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  6. Great! Just love it when you rip the lies apart like this. Time someone stood up against the them. Many of us support you. YNWA!

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  7. Americans are required to pay social security on income earned no matter where in the world is the source. Perhaps this is why there is this category on the books?

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  8. hardly ripping lies apart.he has just typed up a pretend credit report and put it on here and he has you fooled, terrible

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  9. Wow...that told them...

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  10. jaimie once again you are point scoring against other fans .what lfc needs is for all fans to come together in some form of legitimate protest to get rid of hicks and gillette could you not concentrate your talents on trying to do something to unite fans instead of dividing them

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  11. I've presented an accurate picture of the club's financial situation.  I've tried to dispell the raging hysteria and misinformation re our finances by presenting the facts.  If fans choose to ignore the reality and continue believing lies and exaggeration, that's not my problem.

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  12. we all know about the debt but you have the means to help bring the fans together if you cant grasp that then you are no fan at all

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  13. Kanwar - if it's not our debt why is it in our accounts?

    Poor WUM you lad.

    Must try harder

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  14. Where are you RetroRed? It went so quiet in the cowshed

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  15. jaimie what i am saying is that the priority is for hicks and gillette to go surely you have to agree with that.they are not the best owners for lfc are they

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  16. Shock horror, comment was deleted.

    Try again -

    Kanwar , if it's not our debt why is it in our accounts?

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  17. Red Alert This is Liverpool Kop Holdings Blog and the faceless kanwar is a PR agent, This site has one goal and that is to split the focus of our attention away from G + H onto Rafa, divide us,  as Jamie says, everything is Rafas fault, Join his crusade to get Rafa out, You said it Jamie, You would not post until Rafa was gone, Then why post, coz out of the millions of LFC fans around the globe, There are only two who like what you have to say, Any guesses to who they are...

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  18. Your original comment was deleted because it contravened the comment policy.  If you post anything like that, you'll be banned.

    re your question:

    1. Kop Football Ltd (KFL) has a debt level of 347m
    2. Liverpool FC Athletic Grounds has a debt level of 226m
    3. KFL is NOT the club. Thus, their debt is NOT in the club accounts.

    The only debt that IS in the CLUB'S accounts is the 226m.

    The 347m is NOT LFC's debt; it is H+G's debt.

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  19. Wrong.

    Those two AREN'T Liverpool fans.

    Jamie is just the kind of guy who likes to argue to get noticed. He gets so involved in the argument that he loses the point. The fact is that we cannot compete financially with the likes of Sunderland. We can harp on about Rafa all day but if the owners were halfway competent we would have our pick of managers and players. Starting Rafa out campaigns while attempting to downplay the sins of the owners will not put Liverpool where we deserve to be. Any new manager will still have to horsetrade for players, still be managing in front of no more than 45,000 people and will still spend the transfer window begging to keep his best players. But of course that's too obvious a position and it just isn't divisive enough to stand out in. Agreeing with people doesn't exactly satisfy the ego like proving something with figures and account sheets. Bottom line we have no money to improve the squad whoever the manager is and we were promised that would not be the case. Egos and petty squabbling aside that's where we are. Hicks & Gillett OUT!

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  20. Wrong.

    Those two AREN'T Liverpool fans.

    Jamie is just the kind of guy who likes to argue to get noticed. He gets so involved in the argument that he loses the point. The fact is that we cannot compete financially with the likes of Sunderland. We can harp on about Rafa all day but if the owners were halfway competent we would have our pick of managers and players. Starting Rafa out campaigns while attempting to downplay the sins of the owners will not put Liverpool where we deserve to be. Any new manager will still have to horsetrade for players, still be managing in front of no more than 45,000 people and will still spend the transfer window begging to keep his best players. But of course that's too obvious a position and it just isn't divisive enough to stand out in. Agreeing with people doesn't exactly satisfy the ego like proving something with figures and account sheets. Bottom line we have no money to improve the squad whoever the manager is and we were promised that would not be the case. Egos and petty squabbling aside that's where we are. Hicks & Gillett OUT!

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  21. Don't understand what the fuss is about here.  I'm an accountant (Merseyside based) and there is a particular layout of accounts required for all Company accounts, I won't bore you with the details, but Together with trade creditors, accruals etc., "Social Security and Other Taxes", is a standard heading and consists of money due to HMRC for PAYE and VAT. There is absolutely nothing unusual about this.  It is standard.

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  22. <p><span>Jamie,</span>
    </p><p><span></span>
    </p><p><span>One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is how much have H+G personally invested in LFC. <span> </span>We know they bought LFC for £219M (£174.1M value + £44.8M debt) having raised a £350M loan.<span>  </span>The difference of the two figures (£131M) I believe was intended to build the new stadium.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>However, it appears most of £131M has been lent back to LFC to pay for transfers (Torres, Masch etc) and the wage bill. <span> </span>Hence 3 years on, and despite increases in revenue (TV, PL, CL, marketing etc) and being #1 ranked team in Europe, LFC debt has increased from £44M to £226M.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>Now H+G are trying to sell LFC for at least £400M. <span> </span>Were they to conclude such a deal they would stand to each make £25M having made little or no significant personal cash investment into LFC.<span>  </span>In such a scenario they would have nearly doubled the value of LFC in 3 years.<span>  </span>One thing you could clarify Jamie, is whether the new owners having paid £400M for LFC will inherit a club with no debt, or one still with a debt of £226M?</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>More than anything, this is the real legacy of H+G.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>If I’ve made errors in the above figures or assumptions, please correct, so that we have the clearest understanding of the dealings of H+G.</span>
    </p>

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  23. <p><span>Jamie,</span>
    </p><p><span></span>
    </p><p><span>One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is how much have H+G personally invested in LFC. <span> </span>We know they bought LFC for £219M (£174.1M value + £44.8M debt) having raised a £350M loan.<span>  </span>The difference of the two figures (£131M) I believe was intended to build the new stadium.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>However, it appears most of £131M has been lent back to LFC to pay for transfers (Torres, Masch etc) and the wage bill. <span> </span>Hence 3 years on, and despite increases in revenue (TV, PL, CL, marketing etc) and being #1 ranked team in Europe, LFC debt has increased from £44M to £226M.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>Now H+G are trying to sell LFC for at least £400M. <span> </span>Were they to conclude such a deal they would stand to each make £25M having made little or no significant personal cash investment into LFC.<span>  </span>In such a scenario they would have nearly doubled the value of LFC in 3 years.<span>  </span>One thing you could clarify Jamie, is whether the new owners having paid £400M for LFC will inherit a club with no debt, or one still with a debt of £226M?</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>More than anything, this is the real legacy of H+G.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>If I’ve made errors in the above figures or assumptions, please correct, so that we have the clearest understanding of the dealings of H+G.</span>
    </p>

    ReplyDelete
  24. <p><span>Jamie,</span>
    </p><p><span></span>
    </p><p><span>One thing I’ve never been able to figure out is how much have H+G personally invested in LFC. <span> </span>We know they bought LFC for £219M (£174.1M value + £44.8M debt) having raised a £350M loan.<span>  </span>The difference of the two figures (£131M) I believe was intended to build the new stadium.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>However, it appears most of £131M has been lent back to LFC to pay for transfers (Torres, Masch etc) and the wage bill. <span> </span>Hence 3 years on, and despite increases in revenue (TV, PL, CL, marketing etc) and being #1 ranked team in Europe, LFC debt has increased from £44M to £226M.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>Now H+G are trying to sell LFC for at least £400M. <span> </span>Were they to conclude such a deal they would stand to each make £25M having made little or no significant personal cash investment into LFC.<span>  </span>In such a scenario they would have nearly doubled the value of LFC in 3 years.<span>  </span>One thing you could clarify Jamie, is whether the new owners having paid £400M for LFC will inherit a club with no debt, or one still with a debt of £226M?</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>More than anything, this is the real legacy of H+G.</span>
    </p><p><span> </span>
    </p><p><span>If I’ve made errors in the above figures or assumptions, please correct, so that we have the clearest understanding of the dealings of H+G.</span>
    </p>

    ReplyDelete
  25. It was an idle observation on a forum. Quite how anyone would think it would justify a 500+ word blog is beyond me. Surely a 2 sentence reply on the forum in question would have been far more sensible.

    Any anyway, regardless of the precise amount of debt, and I bet even people at the club dispute the actual figure, it's a disgusting amount and it's suffocating the club. If you can't see it, you're absolutely deluded.

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  26. No - it was an 'idle observation' on multiple LFC forums, and would have become yet another nonsensical LFC related myth about me on the net, along with stuff like I'm really a Manc; I also run Republik of Mancunia etc.

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  27. Hi KS.  I will respond to this post tomorrow after I've done some further research.  Cheers. JK

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  28. It's a common tactic used by troublemakers and people who want to distract from the key message. Straight out of the Fox News school of media. The key message is that Hicks & Gillett are cynically bleeding the club dry. But concentrate on a minor part of the message that is incorrect and suddenly you can say you're right again. Well played. Glenn Beck would be proud.

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  29. Kanwar, how does it feel knowing that if you ever came the game you'd get your head kicked in?

    Ballbag, stick to interview for redcafe.

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  30. I can answer that for you, before Jaimie gets to put his particular spin on it.
    Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I can answer that for you, before Jaimie gets to put his particular spin on it.
    Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  32. I can answer that for you, before Jaimie gets to put his particular spin on it.
    Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans. It is our debt.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans. It is our debt.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Kanwar claims that the Kop Holdings debt isn't ours. Look up the club 'Corinthians' anywhere on the web. After one of our illustrious owners had got his hands on them, look at what happened. They are STILL trying to get to the bottom of the levels of debt placed on club, through subsiduary companies like the one Kanwar, has been explaining at length, are nothing to do with us.
    If anyone wants to buy our club, they will have to clear all debts associated with it. And that includes the Caymans loans. It is our debt.
    As much as he would have you believe the picture of LFC is all rosy. It isn't.
    He will also say that Hicks, like Gillett, has learned from his mistakes and will most likely dismiss the current activity in the US with Hick's 'franchises' over there as not applicable as they aren't in this country.
    You came onto a site rejecting 'blind faith fandom' yet that is exactly what you are being greeted with. Only the fandom here doesn't apply to what it should (LFC), it applies to the owners.
    Make of that what you will.

    ReplyDelete
  36.  Triple post.

    This site, like it's owner = amateur hour.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Just to let you know, you've been burned on LFC.tv.

    I'd hate to be Jaimie Kanwar right about now

    ReplyDelete
  38. Don't flatter yourself Jaimie - no-one cares! We just come on here to laugh at your bluster and nonsense!

    ReplyDelete
  39. Do the club service those debts?

    Think carefully before you answer that as there is irrefutable proof.

    ReplyDelete
  40. I've answered this question already in this thread.  I can't be bothered/don't have time to repeat myself again.

    ReplyDelete